Reduce Timelock cooldown to 3-4 seconds

[harsh shuttle]

Title. This is the amount of time it takes to build 35 winded on a single enemy if you cycle optimally at 9-10 CPS, and quite often I find myself teleporting into enemies to trigger timelock (1 second before the cooldown is over), only to be stuck on the ground and potentially killed

[frank halo]

i dont think everyone is going to be building winded at 10 cps optimally at all times

[harsh shuttle]

true, but this change wouldn't hurt those people either

[frank halo]

imo what good is a timelock cd if its so low it makes no difference

i feel like it was added to nerf those that were able to reach max winded so fast

[thorny olive]

Was it not entirely to make infinite mana cycling useless

All patch notes said about the cooldown was preventing abuse I don't see why they'd say that if they intended a nerf for fast winded build up

[harsh shuttle]

it was added to stop you from timelocking with 3 winded to instantly fill your mana bar lol

if you've already built 35 winded then you probably deserve to timelock

the point of the nerf (I think) was to stop people from undeservedly filling their mana bar over and over again

[frank halo]

i forgor

[frank halo]

idk what they meant so i just kinda guessed they didnt like timelocking so often

[thorny olive]

During the whole timelock being bugged patch this was the most common reason given out so it probably wasn't meant to be multi purpose just a cooldown long enough to make low winded mana maxxing not a thing

[frank halo]

[primal pivot]

You'd be surprised. On multiple groups of enemies it's incredibly easy to reach max in 2 seconds

Termi specifically said it was for mana refill abuse and not intended to be a nerf for existing rift Walker gameplay and he also said 75% uptime for a red node sounds fair. I think 3s is absolutely justified

[open cedar]

timelock CD should start the moment is cast and not after

[south igloo]

reduce pontosaurus to ashes

[dense nebula]

Long cd at the start of tl significantly fucks with ending tl early. The loss of being able to freely enter and exit tl has made the ability much more punishing to use

[hidden wolf]

fix shouldnt be a fixed number it should be based on winded absorbed
either mana gained based on winded absorbed or cd based on winded absorbed
ive been saying ts 😭 🙏

also now that builds like morph singu are popular i wouldnt be suprised if this doesnt get implemented bc of how strong it is for how easy it is to put together lmao

[hidden wolf]

yes the cd is a big nerf to challenge rooms with groups of mobs or when you have multiple rw in a team, since youre sharing winded its very awkward to cycle tl with a cd

[hidden wolf]

no bc what if u cancel by accidently offhanding or you dont build all 30 winded, then youre punished for a longer cd but a shorter timelocked

[charred fiber]

Lf 3mana per winded

[hidden wolf]

on gobb

it should be percent of your mana tho bc what if u have max mana items or more intel !!

[vast ivy]

It is to avoid mana printing abuse yes. I think using timelock again after 3 seconds does constitute that. I obviously understand that you want it to be as quick as possible but maybe it's better like this

[primal pivot]

So then you agree 3s is a fair request? 🫶

[vast ivy]

no, i said that timelock after 3 seconds does remove the point of the cooldown (kinda like others said)

whats the point of a cooldown for whatever reason if it serves no purpose

I dont think it kills your gameplay to wait 2 extra seconds or click slightly slower

[charred fiber]

Idk 3s seems long enough

And it kinda does get people killed if their survivability is made by flying up with timelock

Thoughts on reducing cd for like 0.5 by each mobs killed

[vast ivy]

I think its a bad argument if you require almost 100% uptime on flight to survive

[dense nebula]

Another decision has hit the riftwalker😭

[vast ivy]

we're like 100% glad that timelock is fun with the bandaid of much faster winded buildup

but I dont think we ever intended timelock to have that crazy uptime. Its not why we added the cooldown but I dont think its a bad side effect either 🤷 .

It can obviously change but if things are underpowered now then i'd much rather change the numbers that the uptime

its meant to be your huge finisher ability and 100% uptime on that is just odd

[harsh shuttle]

it's not 100% uptime, it'd be an uptime increase from 66% to 75%

you're still spending 3 seconds on the ground for every 9 seconds of timelock

[primal pivot]

The averaged out DPS with the cooldown ends up making it feel a little underwhelming on DPS builds in comparison to other options. Longer uptime on TL as a whole would also be pretty great

If the TL uptime gets increased so that it's a 75% uptime type thing, I would be happy about that tbh

[clear bough]

it may if all the enemies you applied winded on die in those 2 seconds while often does happen

having a build that can stack winded fast requires tradeoffs, like sacrificing survivability or damage, there is no way to have all 3, so I don't see the need to handicap fast stacking builds when they are already required to make a big stat sacrifice in order to do it

i have one of each, one that has bad stacking but good ehp and damage, one with mid damage but good stacking and ehp, and one with good stacking and damage but horrible ehp

a cooldown in addition to being a huge problem with getting low winded when enemies die too fast is basically blocking off your ability to build this tradeoff into a build up until a certain amount

if the cooldown was say, 3 seconds, it would still prevent mana abuse but also allow you to tradeoff how you please within build and still provide a limitation to uptime when there are a lot of enemies like in lootruns

the way i am wording this is horrible lmao

also not to mention that the biggest issue with rw is a lack of sustained dps while having too much burst, and this further adds to the problem

[vast ivy]

I think its underwhelming if timelock isn't a cool big finisher ability because its always online lmao

[clear bough]

I don't really see how the design of timelock makes it a big finisher ability, with the current state of rw it basically is your only dps option

also more flying = more fun of course

but tying back to what i said, more uptime on timelock means trading off another stat, and if you want more of those other stats you need to have a lower timelock uptime

[vast ivy]

Having access to a fun pump makes the fun underwhelming

[hidden wolf]

dopamine receptors fried

[clear bough]

I'd argue the opposite, the less you can use it the more underwhelming it is

[hidden wolf]

i think the primary concern and reason for wanting a reduced cd though is for when you dont have a full 30 winded 10 second timelock.
absorbing like 9 winded for a couple seconds to be put on a 5 second cd isnt the best feeling
also in rooms where winded is easily obtained with tons of mobs it doesnt feel as powerful as it should

[clear bough]

for timelock to be a finisher ability it would need a lot more of a kick while being outside of timelock would need... to be better in a lot of ways

[vast ivy]

but using this logic we should add an infinite flight ability straight up because more fun is more better right?

the good things are only good because bad things exist and theres a contrast

[clear bough]

well no because this is where tradeoffs come in, if you want the more flight then you sacrifice other stats, while more of those stats result in less flight

i was kinda being sacastic with saying more flight = more fun lol

but it is true in the sense that my favorite rw build is my one that has the most timelock uptime but the least dps

also funily enough there is an infinite flight ability: acrobat, but obviously acro doesn't have amazing dps

kinda of a similar thing here

finisher ability should be like "woah, i am super power for a short time" and not "woah i can compete with regular fallen dps for a few seconds"

timelock is really designed (maybe not intentionally) as a rw's primary tool as opposed to some kind of finisher

[vast ivy]

It is very intentionally designed as an "ultimate finisher" style ability

riftwalker is a ramping damage archetype and this consumes all of your ramping resource to put you in a "god state" with infinite mana lmao

[clear bough]

well the rework is a great opportunity to explore that because right now that really isn't how it actually plays out, it's more of a required/im actually doing something state rather than a god state

a rw on the ground is effectively useless unless you make a non timelock build specfically which is not very good

[vast ivy]

Yeah the bandaids we did, especially to gust is the only reason for this. Riftwalker is just not really well designed and we keep discussing that and we cant bandaid that away

[clear bough]

I think rw is a lot of fun but the fun is very much oriented around timelock, I am excited to see what the rework will bring too but for now I'd really hope that rw can continue to focus on being timelock based.

a 3 second cooldown meets the same goals of the intention of adding the cooldown without also creating problems with enemies dying too fast in team activities or limiting tradeoff options in builds

[vast ivy]

I think I just believe that rift is by no means suffering with a 5 second cooldown, especially with the builds im seeing lol

[clear bough]

I have one build where that is the case, but my build that focuses on stacking winded super fast but in exchange having pretty low dps does suffer quite a lot, as would any build that builds for high timelock uptime by sacrificing other stats

really the worst thing with the 5 seconds is during non boss raid challenges where you really can only get 10-15 stacks of winded at a time because of how quickly enemies die and how low of a concentration of them there are

5 seconds isn't terrible when you get 10 seconds of timelock, but it is horrible when you only get 3-5 seconds

[clear bough]

are you willing to consider scaling the cooldown and mana restore based on winded stacks? Like lets say for example:
5 winded: 10% mana, no cooldown
10 winded: 25% mana, 1 second cooldown
15 winded: 50% mana, 2 second cooldown
20 winded: 75% mana, 3 second cooldown
25 winded: 100% mana, 4 second cooldown
30 winded: 100% mana, 5 second cooldown

or is this something that will take a lot of dev time

cooldown being longer than the duration on an ability you rely so much on is what feels so painful

well not the only thing, but it's tolerable outside of that

[vast ivy]

I think it's too complicated

[clear bough]

would it be more simple to build it into the language of timelock? like rather than "you get 1.5 seconds of timelock per 5 winded" it can be "you can 1.5 seconds of timelock, 15% mana, and 0.75 seconds of cooldown per 5 winded"

that would give it a linear scaling too with those numbers

[clear bough]

also if the goal of the cooldown is just to prevent mana restore abuse, how about increasing the min winded for timelock to 10? no idea why anyone would want to timelock with 5-9 winded anyway

[primal pivot]

right, I'm not saying the cooldown should be erased, it's just slightly too long in my opinion

[clear bough]

also to the point that was made about 3 seconds not having an impact, isn't the whole reason a cooldown was needed so that someone couldn't spam timelock at low winded counts? like who is gonna get 30 stacks just to restore their mana?

Yes if you only get 30 stacks then a 3 seconds cooldown probably won't mean much, but if you get only 5 or 10 stacks which takes 1 second or less than it absolutely does matter

with 3 seconds it discourages abusing the mana restore at low winded counts while not actually hurting riftwalkers who build as much winded as they can and don't abuse the mana restore

[dense nebula]

Ct literally caught us having too much fun😭

[clear bough]

so uh any consideration here

[primal pivot]

I think, at the very least, 4s is reasonable amount. While playing this, 5s just feels one second too long, as silly as that sounds

[clear bough]

all i know is 5 is too much, 4 may be a lot better

[dense nebula]

Current TL sorta combines the worst aspects of corrupted and awakened

Corrupted has a static timer but you can hold it forever and you are heavily rewarded for leaving it with health and damage with the ability i forgor the name of

Awakened is on a timer but you can activate it dynamically and there is no cd

[open cedar]

make it escalate each 10 charges, 25% mana (cap at 100%) and 1 second cd (cap at 5 seconds)

and there you get an easier way to use dev time