#Yet another Boltslinger thread...

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

stoic forge
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Introductions!

Hello, I'm Planto! NanaWave I've been a main of Spellspam Boltslinger since well before 2.0 came out, and am still going strong with playing it. This thread is an in-depth explanation of what I think is done well, what is done poorly, and what could be re-imagined with the Boltslinger archetype.

The good.

Boltslinger is the embodiment of a death-of-a-thousand-cuts archetype for Archer, and it generally feels good in that regard. Gradually improving your Arrow Storm throughout the leveling process feels amazing, and you slowly build more and more tools in your kit to weave around enemy attacks to get in the perfect position to unleash your arrow storm.

Turning your Arrow Shield into automatic turrets to maintain Frenzy & help cut down weak mobs via Guardian Angels is clever and fairly engaging. It is one of the defining aspects of Boltslinger, and shouldn't be overlooked.

Frenzy makes this archetype. It turns it from a one-note archetype that relies on deleting enemies before they delete you, and turns it into an archetype that carefully dances along the threat range of the enemy. That sort of gameplay is super interesting.

The bad.

There are three specific nodes in my eyes that do not help the class execute its gameplay. Fierce Stomp, Escape Artist, and Geyser Stomp. These nodes don't provide anything meaningful to Boltslingers kit.

__Fierce Stomp__s damage is as light as a spring breeze, and takes 2 AP.
Escape Artist is super cool on paper, and is meant to be paired with Fierce Stomp. The issue with it is that it hasn't been relevant since 2.0 beta, when every arrow dealt damage, and it was used as a burst tool on mobs with a large hitbox.
Geyser Stomp & Fierce Stomp should just be the same node. A total of 4 AP for this small amount of effectiveness is absurd.

Recycling is counter-productive to what boltslinger wants to do. Wouldn't it be more in-theme with the archetype to regain mana based on projectiles landed?

Boltslinger lacks a red node in its tree. Simple as that. Arrow Hurricane is not red node worthy. In fact, it's worth less than single aspect slot! (See Aspect of the Inexhaustable Quiver.)

Because of this, bolt lacks an additional mechanic in its arsenal to use to its advantage, and turns into a pure numbers game, where the mains of the archetype only care about raw damage output. We have nothing else to play around with.

Late-game Boltslinger fails to reward players with what it promises them from their leveling journey. Generally, Boltslinger is a one trick pony with its playstyle. You get in, you burst, you get out once it's too dangerous, or you're out of mana - throw all defense to the wind. Seems simple & effective, right?

Except, your reward for doing so is negligible, and you're given poor DPS unless you're running crafted Divzer. You have zero agency other than your damage, which is fine! As long as you deal damage, right? Lamb_Sweat

Illusion of choice.

If you want to competitively use Boltslinger, you only have one choice. Divzer. This is of no fault of Divzer by itself, but it's a symptom of low dps and low agency from all other Boltslinger items.

It answers all of your demands for damage & mana sustain, but it's truly the only viable choice on Boltslinger for experienced players who want to get every drop of damage they can from the archetype to be in the same league as the others.

What could be changed.

Boltslinger needs a red node mechanic desperately, and other small abilities that fit the vision of our beloved agile machine-bow playstyle.

Scrap Fierce Stomp, Geyser Stomp, and Escape Artist entirely. They don't provide any value to experienced boltslinger players, and feel horrible to use. Why take the time to escape onto your enemy, when you can just leap in and start your storm > bomb cycle?

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Rework suggestions

Boltslinger could gain a lot of complexity by choosing to spend your Frenzy to perform a parry-style skill, choosing a specific target to focus with Guardian Angels, and progressively gain more damage based of how long you’ve been dancing with a boss. These suggestions are made with the imagination that Frenzy is gained 2x slower instead of its current rate.

Conduit | Replaces Fierce Stomp.
Your Basic Attack now marks enemies vulnerable to Guardian Angels. Guardian Angels will focus on the marked target with increased firing speed and range.

Windstep | Replaces Escape Artist.
If you leap into an attack while at 70 Frenzy or above, dodge the damage and gain 10% Strength for 8 seconds, consuming all Frenzy. Does not stack.

Eye of the Storm | Replaces Arrow Hurricane.
When casting Arrow Storm at 70 Frenzy or above, build up stacks of Tempest on your target with each bolt landed, dealing extra damage with each stack. +0.4% Damage per stack, max of 100 stacks, -10 stacks fall off per second.

Zephyr’s Pulse | Replaces Geyser Stomp.
Directly hitting Arrow Bomb on a target with 100 Tempest will consume all stacks of Tempest, and unleash a devastating pulse of lightning from the target, damaging all nearby enemies.

All of these options give Boltslinger a way to amp their own damage, and deal with clearing packs of mobs, based on the themes of gaining stronger as a fight goes on, minimizing downtime on your spell usage, and are based on the storm naming scheme of boltslinger.

tawdry pilot
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things i agree on:

  • stomp merging - yeah and get rid of the kb + re add blindness
  • escape artist being bad - not much to say
  • bolt lacking a red node on its tree - not much to say

things i semi agree on:

  • recycling being counterproductive - yeah this is real but like at the same time there's a lot of other aspects bolt has that recycling is rly good for so i find it to be ok
  • arrow hurricane not being red node worthy - there's just simply nothing "special" that arrow hurricane does to justify it being red, but at the same time it's too strong to be anything else (also you might have had a brain freeze because aspect of quiver adds arrows per streams and arrow hurricane adds more streams so arrow hurricane is far more superior here)

things i disagree on:

  • escape artist merging with stomps - no, this ability is a fav of mine and is really easy to expand and also helps with recycling

things you missed:

  • frenzy has been nerfed more than once or twice since it was added and this is mostly because of how easily accessible it is and bolt is (obviously) hurt most by it
  • ele defs specifically suck on bolt so bad that basically the only choice you have is playing divzer otherwise you're better off playing trapper (you mentioned divzer basically being the only choice but not exactly for the right reason)
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also another important point is how (currently) it is just bad to go all the way down but you are kinda forced to in order to get grapes and then cheaper arrow bomb 2, but if you dont go there you save a lot of AP because of the useless geyser stomp, so taking things like trapper nodes is much better but you lose a decent amount of sustain

(speaking of sustain, even though recycling is "counter productive", its even weak when you do miss your projectiles but i think that can be fixed by a mediocre value increase)

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i will shamelessly plug some of the ideas i have to take advantage of a possible bolt discussion here but this is what i came up with for a 3rd red for bolt

somber quartz
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justice for bolt

stoic forge
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You're right about the brainfreeze, my bad! I wrote this suggestion in about an hour ;P

woven brook
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Nuke the escape nodes PaimonWhat

tawdry pilot
woven brook
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Escape being able to used midair would be cool

tawdry pilot
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oh also another thing thats worth mentioning is recoil

new players (or literally just anyone playing bolt really but its just more annoying for newer players) shouldn't have to deal with recoil and it should instead be an optional part of bolt's tree, and if you do pick it you will have to play around it but you will also be rewarded for picking it (example below)

stoic forge
tawdry pilot
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oh, i kinda read this as "they should be put together" thats mb```hs
Escape Artist is super cool on paper, and is meant to be paired with Fierce Stomp

stoic forge
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no worries at all

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I play boltslinger in the pre 2.0 style. Circle strafing around mobs, cycling storm bomb, and just going crazy with the movement. I haven't met another bolt user that actually likes using the stomps!

woven brook
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Anyways overall I do really like all the interactions with Frenzy, plus Conduit is pretty cool aswell

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Only thing that I'm a tiny bit mixed about is Eye of the Storm, but it still is cool and I like the general concept of it

stoic forge
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Yeah, it's hard to imagine stuff sometimes. My vision behind it was that you'd cast storm to "charge" your target, then use bomb to detonate your Tempest stacks.

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Just inspired by the storm / thunder naming styles of all the nodes :)

void moat
woven brook
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Make it like Xiao's kit from Genshin like

tawdry pilot
void moat
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Idk what that is but as long as it spams stomping that'd be perfect..

void moat
stoic forge
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That's a whole new take on flying bolt LOL

void moat
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Every class needs a little form of piroutte ✊

tawdry pilot
stoic forge
tawdry pilot
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i think getting scared from text should be a thing of the past

EC does like 4 different things at once and has a massive text wall which is kind of unavoidable yet it's really simple to understand

stoic forge
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I'm not sure if granting the boost of walk speed is a great idea, it can be rough to control without practice...

woven brook
tawdry pilot
stoic forge
tawdry pilot
tawdry pilot
stoic forge
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for sure!

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if it's a final red node, or an important keystone of the kit, it deserves to be long winded :)

void moat
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Rather a wall of text than an ability just saying "nearby" or an unspecified area of effect

timber cloud
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shrimply add a toggle for advanced descriptions

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And show how abilities scale pls

tawdry pilot
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nope actually, i in fact do not want to know the attack speed of effigies, thanks wynncraft for conveniently leaving it out of the description

void moat
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Idk if it's by choice or limitations but the toggle stuff is so bad to navigate

sour musk
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justice for bolt like

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it should have gotten a buff or at least some aspects this patch

timber cloud
void moat
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Soul points got removed anything is possible

timber cloud
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I wish they'd come back ngl

strange vault
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Based Planto Thread 🔥

wet tangle
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It's been a while since I touched Bolt, I just played a hyperglass build that had less than 7K ehp

stoic forge
wet tangle
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And, like I expected, no Bolt channges this update.

stoic forge
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The aspects are fair in my opinion, but a little too much strength is in Inexhaustible Quiver. (Not saying nerf it!!! For the love of god don’t!!) We could just have some tighter spread on Further Horizons & could use an aspect to speed up how fast arrow storm fires perhaps

wet tangle
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And you did live through the era of the bouncing bomb aspect correct?

stoic forge
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Yup, I’ve been playing bolt very consistently for many years

wet tangle
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The jank kind of made the playstyle unique

stoic forge
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It did! I can definitely see how it was a pain in the ass to balance though. It didn’t really feel like bolt either imo

wet tangle
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You could even face a specific direction near a block and cause the bombs to detonate instantly

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It was incredibly strong in certain areas (I myself never mastered it, but did it a few times)

stoic forge
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Mhm. So strong, but impossible to be effective everywhere. It felt like a guild raid only strat.

wet tangle
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And I can't help but feel like it's this particular utilization of the environment that made Bolt one of a kind.

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Even if it had a few use cases.

stoic forge
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One of a kind yes, but way too niche. In that playstyle, it felt like the soul of boltslinger was just gone. No weaving spells and basic attacks in while kiting the enemy, instead you’re solely focused on getting the boss next to your Necessary Wall of Death So That They Can Die.

wet tangle
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You didn't just look at the boss and cast, you had to specifically cast at wherever the ground and it's hitbox formed a perpendicular angle. ( I may be exaggerating this a bit )

stoic forge
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Yeah it was so weird

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Just had to hit the perfect angle so that everything bounced instantly, and just burst the target

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Nothing else mattered

wet tangle
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Not against this aspect being gone though (I do miss it), I just need Bolt to be stronger

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And I think it's a gear issue as well

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Also does Windstep activating perform some pirouette

stoic forge
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In my vision it does not, I envisioned it as a move similar to MH Wilds Perfect Dodge skill for bow.

stoic forge
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Also, real talk, can we get a Wind Prison major ID on Stratiformis? Have it mark enemies similar to curse, and gradually shred their elemental defenses based on how many hits they’ve taken. Call it Windshear.

wet tangle
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Sick

stoic forge
somber quartz
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Everything else is the same cuz they refuse to make anything semi viable for et that's new

stoic forge
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The only thing keeping me sane with Boltslinger is pretending that Fruma is going to bring another set of anni-level mythics, and one of them will be for bolt…

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Is that a lot to ask? SCgetoutofmyhead

somber quartz
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Simple trick for being a bolt main is pray for the worst so that if anything gets added its like christmas

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Idk I've gotten to the point that I'm glad nothing got changed this coming patch that it's lowk a blessing in disguise that it didn't get killed unintentionally

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Bolt so good only mandatory aspect u really need for it is elusive aspect!

somber quartz
tawdry pilot
scenic shuttle
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its not super useful tho, only the +1 arrow storm

tawdry pilot
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GAs already do a whole lot of nothing other than build frenzy which is nice I guess but one storm already maxes your frenzy lol

somber quartz
somber quartz
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Roleplay

tawdry pilot
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also yeah but arrow shield does that too and gives you a very nice resistance bonus on the way so like why would I want GAs over shied lol

somber quartz
scenic shuttle
solid ice
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bolt still good dps archetype

old rover
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bolt aint getting changed til 6 months after fruma drops just pack it up atp

wet tangle
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Yet Riftwalker and Sharp get changes, I don’t understand why Bolt couldn’t get its numbers up.

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Oh right ele defs!

tawdry pilot
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because the problem with bolt isnt directly damage numbers

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might as well let it rot until next year

void moat
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sharpshooter shouldn't even exist

peak depot
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Let's rework elusive so that it's a bar that charges whenever you cast spells, and once it hits max you take recoil from all your spells. The bar slowly depletes when you don't cast any spells and you recoil only goes away once the bar completely empties out. (It gets completely filled when u get hit)

tawdry pilot
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or we just make the mechanic exist how it is but optional so people that dont want it dont have to suffer and people that do want it can play exactly like they played before

peak depot
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Also add like a bunch of trapper req to bouncing

median lynx
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i play exclusively divzer bolt and have been playing since 2014, sort of agree with the points

  • guardian angels has never felt particularly impactful to me; it doesnt contribute as much to the arrow slinging fantasy that bolt is going for. for me, this is because they lack dps, attack rather slowly (at least compared to arrow storm), their projectiles look different, they can only attack one mob at once. even with 4 gangels up it doesnt feel particularly impactful, and right now the meta tree only takes 2.

  • frenzy is completed busted, hard agree

  • geyster stomp and fierce stomp are indeed straight ass, the fact that you need to spend 4 AP to get 0 functionality or damage to unlock grape bombs is a crime. archer escape being uncastable in air also just sucks, if these granted one-time refresh in the air (as mentioned by others above) maybe they would be worth taking.

  • escape artist does not have synergy with fierce stomp, it's a fine ability on its own and pairs extremely well with recycling.

  • recycling is actually incredibly valuable. the refund provided by arrow rain and escape artist are very powerful for arrow shield and escape. it's pretty useless for storm, but shrapnel bombs + grapes + aspects also greatly increase the sustain from bomb.

  • hurricane is fine, inexhaustible quiver is just straight up overtuned

  • conduit is cool. windstep makes no sense. eye of the storm and zephyrs pulse are fine ideas, but bolt is definitely not lacking in damage.

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  • they've made some progress with bolt. self-recoil was kept in the game for an egregiously long time and was finally taken care of. selvut's ideas for bolt are really creative and i'm looking forward to seeing them implemented, it's clear the ct is listening to the players complaints, hopefully this thread can bring more to light.

  • you neglected to mention something: aspect of the further horizons does functionally nothing. they attempted to address this once, but the buff was also negligible. the velocity and spread decrease are so minute you would have to be super human to tell when it's activated, even with a maxed aspect. this is made worse by the team's silent removal of a decade-old interaction with shield and storm, which was never mentioned anywhere in any patch note. (previously, casting storm with shield up would start the storm farther and with a much smaller spread, enabling you to hit every shot on smaller and farther mobs)

raven mural
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Also Planto, goated thread I like all of the ideas literally nothing is even semi meh, they're all so cool

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However u gotta change the name of tempest man, that's a warrior thing

wet tangle
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Mhm, it should be renamed to Winded... wait.

raven mural
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Idk Thunderous, Electrifying, Pulverizing would be my ideas

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They sound kinda corny tho

tawdry pilot
tawdry pilot
raven mural
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Yea guardian angels aren't guardian angels they're just turrets

tawdry pilot
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i hate when people say that oh yea GA can help you charge frenzy

but one storm already does that instantly

hell you dont even need the whole storm to hit lol

wet tangle
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Well at least they auto lock on mobs so that you don’t get jumped by invisible enemies

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Just imagine if parasite’s arrow shield was GA instead…

somber quartz
stoic forge
# median lynx i play exclusively divzer bolt and have been playing since 2014, sort of agree w...

Great points! I'm definitely in the wrong with how I was thinking about streams =/= additional arrows per stream, for sure. Totally skipped my mind on the first draft LOL

Escape Artist was 100% designed to work with the stomps. Think about how you pair them together. Escape onto / over the enemy, then you stomp next to them.

Recycling is definitely not a horrible node, but I just disagree that missing shots should be rewarded. I think there are more interesting ways for Boltslinger to have a mana printer node.

Yup, I was 100% wrong about Hurricane etc!

Windstep was imagined to work like Monster Hunter Wilds' Bow 'Perfect Dodge' skill. Are you familiar with the idea?

Divzer isn't lacking in damage, but bolts other items are. Their designs are horribly outdated.

stoic forge
wet tangle
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You may need to elaborate on the Monster Hunter thing

stoic forge
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fair

somber quartz
wet tangle
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Yeah bc Divzer is probably the only bow that can abuse Cursed Wings

stoic forge
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I'm just not a fan of Divzer anyway. I'll run it when needed, but I much prefer Stratiformis & Spring..

tawdry pilot
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strati when frenzy exists ☠️

scenic shuttle
raven mural
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Frenzy as a resource is so fucking cool

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Pretty much every archetype already has this in some way, bolt having it would be awesome

stoic forge
wet tangle
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Can we also give Arrow Storm a unique audio

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Thing keeps muting everything

hardy lichen
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something something the world if bolt was good

stoic forge
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All of the worlds political issues would be fixed if bolt was reworked tomorrow!

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All of our world leaders are stressed because they're finding it hard to enjoy their nightly boltslinger raids these days...

somber quartz
hardy lichen
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so real queen

scenic shuttle
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i hope we get a level 120 divzer in fruma

uncut shale
strange vault
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I agree, forcing a mobility spell like escape to work in combat just feels so janky to use, I feel like when bolt rework comes around that hopefully the escape reliance is removed

wet tangle
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I think battle monk needs more charge nodes

uncut shale
uncut shale
wet tangle
uncut shale
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Its really nice in warrior but making mobility spells deal damage in archer just doesnt work out

wet tangle
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The spell intended to be used in unfavorable combat situations... is now being forced to be used in unfavorable combat situations.

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It's also really funny considering only 1 arrow from each of these "arrow bombarding" spells (not arrow storm) can hit an enemy only once.

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(I suck at phrasing this shit)

uncut shale
uncut shale
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So weaponizing it kind of goes against the original concept