#The Fallen/Warrior Situation

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

simple steeple
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In the past few months fallen has been nerfed and changed quite a lot for the worse. From the massive armour breaker nerf to enraged blow damage being hit as well as rally nerfs fallen has been hit extremely hard, and while yes some of these nerfs were deserved (for example armour breaker's vulnerability was quite broken a few patches ago) I think most of the issues come from one weapon in particular, Hero. Hero especially combined with the ability to leech Battle monk's qol nodes essentially take all the risk away from fallen with points listed below.

  1. Air shout, half moon swipe and tempest
    Usually on a more pure fallen tree you have to position well and be closer to enemies to have to hit your abilities but these battle monk nodes take all of that away for not much AP

  2. Walk speed
    Walk speed essentially allows a good player to never get hit and it takes all the risk away from having to be low hp to make use of Fallen's high damage

  3. Agility and air items being very strong
    Agility itself is quite strong as it makes the player insanely tanky for not much damage loss but it also stems from air items being super strong. Air items usually give tons of walk speed, damage and -spell costs for almost no downsides while giving lots of base health on top of that, and all of these factors allow Hero to do a lot of damage while being super tanky. (Pretty much taking the point out of fallen)

There has been a lot of talk lately about air items lately including #1387951219917459556 and I think some other posts that I can't find but I think this mostly affects warrior the most as seen by Hero's insane usage rate.

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This brings me to another point that Fallen and hero nerfs leaves warrior in a kind of bad spot in general, with even more recent fallen nerfs and other spears like Bloodbath, Alkatraz, Thrundacrack and Collapse not getting compensation it leaves Fallen not in a great spot. The recent Battle monk changes is a step in the right direction for giving Battle monk an identity although Battle monk still doesn't seem to be worth using in really any situation. And while Paladin I think is in a decent spot being able to buff team mates well while being tanky and doing decent damage I think still a lot of players including my self find it boring while not having much skill expression.

While I am aware that this post might not be super well received because I know hero is a beloved weapon but I think for the state of warrior balance it is quite frankly over tuned and leads to Warrior's ability tree getting hurt too much.

I could also go on about a billion other things like how air shout got nerfed too much without bash being buffed or how Hero has a supportive Major ID but then it only really works on fallen. Or how this tree in particular is very broken ⬇️ https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CI000000000000000000000Gh64080010etV-TS7j0
(although this tree I think is getting quite nerfed this changelog so I guess this is kind of in a way outdated)
Or how Hero gives 50 skill points for free as well as other things but I would like to keep this post short so you guys don't have to read too much and I also think I have gotten most of my points across.
Thanks for reading like

fringe shale
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i think hero is far less problematic than how blatantly better air items are than quite almost anything else

zephra isn't that far off hero's dps and yeah this is just thanks to air items in general being very strong on top of having good walkspeed and agi providing rng based ehp

a few air items are getting nerfed in this patch (most significant one i noticed was sagi)

i think part of the solution is also allowing other playstyles and archetypes to have other really nice items and they have sort of started doing that (nuclear emesis and titano are good examples) and should keep going in this direction

uneven kelp
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Hero lowkey barely got hit i cant lie

thick geode
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me when millionth hero base dps nerf 😴

fringe shale
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honestly hero having 10str10dex is just random and unnecessary but i truly think if they get rid of that they can revert the base dps nerf

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and give more focus to non-air items so they have some chance to compete

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tbh some of the weapons aren't even that bad to begin with they just face other problems

collapse suffers from rainbow being shit as a whole and mega nerfed
idol is getting a major id that basically bans it from being able to do what it can do best (charge spam)
convergence is just always poop

simple steeple
simple steeple
carmine beacon
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Pure fallen needs a buff tbh the dps over time on fallen is so bad already

radiant ermine
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buff bash

thick geode
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true!

merry geode
uneven kelp
merry geode
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Hero still got out damaged by alka tcrack bbath it was just qol

radiant ermine
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hero is barely better than zephra after patch lol

radiant ermine
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ws is more than just qol

merry geode
merry geode
radiant ermine
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if they wanted to nerf hero they should've just nerfed air items

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air items deserve a nerf anyways

uneven kelp
uneven kelp
radiant ermine
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only thing that hero was uncountably the best in was lootrunning

uneven kelp
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What constitutes to not even that good 💀

radiant ermine
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(and it still will be)

merry geode
radiant ermine
merry geode
uneven kelp
radiant ermine
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based off builds pre patch

uneven kelp
uneven kelp
merry geode
uneven kelp
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Literally everything on fallen is dogshit rn

radiant ermine
merry geode
uneven kelp
uneven kelp
merry geode
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it was always worse then et bucko

uneven kelp
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Like it should

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And it wasnt even that much worse theres a reason everybody used hero

merry geode
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yea and they just widened the gap so much to the point where hero is prob gonna be close to the same level as shit like strati and weathered

uneven kelp
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Weathered isnt even bad

radiant ermine
uneven kelp
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Dont even compare weathered to strati lmao

merry geode
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weathered gets mogged by nirv obli and cata

radiant ermine
uneven kelp
radiant ermine
merry geode
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^ lmaoo

uneven kelp
merry geode
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i think merch is just one of those elitists who thinks hero is a no skill option that degrades other fallen options that require real "skill"

uneven kelp
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I said it was overtuned compared to the other spears

radiant ermine
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but it wasnt

uneven kelp
merry geode
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hero was only so good because it synergized well with upperscream, now that upperscream is dead hero is dead

uneven kelp
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Literally all of fallen is dead 😭😭😭

merry geode
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ur missing the point bucko

uneven kelp
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Other weapons used scream 😭

buoyant berry
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hos much dps tcrack give b4 @merry geode

merry geode
# uneven kelp Other weapons used scream 😭

yes and a majority of -4th items have agility reqs/air dmg and scream/air shout have a lot of air conversion so hero synergized with it perfectly, therefore hero was able to "compete" with items that would ordinarily deal way more damage on traditional upperbash fallen

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hope that helps you understand!

merry geode
merry geode
radiant ermine
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im p sure its a lot more than that

buoyant berry
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How much ehp does tcrack have and how much does hero have

merry geode
radiant ermine
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tcrack also has killstreak

merry geode
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yeah but ur not proccing killstreak on greg

radiant ermine
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ok but who is using tcrack for tna 😭

merry geode
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whos using fallen for anything other then tna? notg sure but aco still kills the boss in less then 30 seconds so who cares

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for tcc u run trickshade and for nol u run shade

buoyant berry
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My stupid chungus life

uneven kelp
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Its still gonna get good damage with way more eph than the et weapons

merry geode
uneven kelp
merry geode
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im leaving this chat now idk how many more times i can repeat myself this is absurd, i think it is impossible for me to change ur incorrect opinion or ur ragebaiting

uneven kelp
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Hero aint gonna let you hit 😭😭💀💀

merry geode
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keep crying when i literally have seen u crying about hero for like 2 months now, insane behavior

uneven kelp
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Zip it up when your done

merry geode
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u are actually not real hahaha

uneven kelp
uneven kelp
merry geode
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keep replying to me bro i know u cant stop thinkin about me 😛

uneven kelp
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Ill give you some alone time with hero

merry geode
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no argument so u just resort to 4th grade insults bc u know im right

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sad stuff man

uneven kelp
merry geode
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d tier ragebait i didnt even press reply lmao

simple steeple
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wtf happened here 🙏

queen heath
runic ginkgo
fresh canopy
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Is no one gonna mention how nerfing intox makes us reliant on rally again even tho making it not necessary was the whole point of the fallen changes

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Pmo

runic ginkgo
fresh canopy
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Oh I forgot about the cd

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If it makes us reliant on other classes 🔥

runic ginkgo
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But idk if ill keep playin fr

umbral pivot
silver mica
opaque pike
thick geode
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i think it used to have like 20 str dex or smt and got nerfed to 10 10 within the last yearish but i could also just be misrenemebring

opaque pike
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I miss wynndata.

thick geode