Official Trickster Feedback Thread

[cursive comet]

nah, enkindled is generally

[cobalt crypt]

Getting stuck with a 20 second cd is kinda scuffed

[fluid sphinx]

decreasing the amount gained but the cooldown ends when it finishes?

[cursive comet]

also the bug only can apply to 1 enemy per cd

[proper flare]

Yeah we'd like to try reduce the cds a bit

[proper flare]

We're aware

[proper flare]

Maybe just decreasing the amount gained might work, idk

[fluid sphinx]

the issue is you deal insane damage already with long cds...

can hop reduce the cooldown of shadow thing?

[proper flare]

No

[fluid sphinx]

its currently tied together so you can't summon a shadow thing without hopping with it active

sorry-

[deft igloo]

i mean it has a defense req and multi kinda costs a lot

[cursive comet]

187.5% dps tho (max)

[fluid sphinx]

huh

[cursive comet]

8s cd

[fluid sphinx]

what

[cursive comet]

Ignore me T^T im bad at explaining

[dry granite]

anyone else find building tricks to be a little awkward sometimes?

my main gripe is that clones are the main way you build tricks but are also the large majority of your damage. having the build-up and the burst of your damage be through the same expendable source makes building tricks feel annoying

has there been any discussion on possible alternative ways to build tricks?

also the aspect that gives additonal Max Tricks doesn't seem that useful, what purpose does this serve? am i missing anything?

more Max Tricks doesnt really help because the requirement you need to utilize your debuffs is still teh same. the only thing this will do is leave more leftover tricks, however that isn't really relevant as your Clone attacks will build back your tricks for you, meaning that you're able to immediately absorb your tricks again in order to just get the full benefit even without the aspect

i guess this allows for more debuff duration, right? but even then, the fact that youre able to reapply your tricks while the debuffs are already active makes this benefit meaningless

[mighty harness]

This was probably one of the biggest issues that popped up during development, the solution I proposed manifested in new hoodwink but it's not perfect. At the very least I'm thinking of buffing hoodwink so it feels like a strong way to spread stacks.

Max tricks comes into play with the extra damage and duration scaling but yeah it's not amazing, I will ask about it because I did not actually make the aspects

[dry granite]

cool!

[proper flare]

I think we just randomly threw in that aspect to fill it out more ._.

It would be nice for it to be changed to something more useful

[dry granite]

agreed it doesnt really do anything

[still lava]

Hmmm...

[wraith vale]

maybe its just me, but the toxic sludge debuff is weird. making enemies explode on death is just so very situational effect I feel. Its just like old exploding with much better scaling. Idk if that really can be considered a debuff (ok they take increased earth dmg but still), rather than an extra effect? I also feel its a missed opportunity to somehow integrate something with poison (imo would fit with the name and the trickser theme).

this is just a quick thought though. I really like the new trickster design. This was the only thing I felt was somewhat weird

[still lava]

Again I am no balancing expect but...
What if every (insert cooldown here) , put 2 extra tricks on hits...?

[cursive comet]

they wanted to make the clones to apply tricks (clone jutsu)

[proper flare]

That's one of the main reasons why we decided to include the extra elemental damage, to make it still have some uses in those situations

A rework would be interesting but for now, it does the job. But it's understandable and would be better if it got changed

[fluid sphinx]

you want me to come up an idea for hoodwink?

[fluid sky]

Trickster is good, but it needs tricks bar or smth

It's hard to tell when you need to explode them if you can't see how many you have

But we have clones bar rn so that's the problem..

You need to see how many tricks u have but also you need to see how many clones u have

[thorny marsh]

If there is a bug fix will it be announced in noticeboard? I forgot how it was for last beta test...

[cursive comet]

MID said it wont slay clone, i tested and it wont give me 40% dmg buff, so yeah, Syncope basically throws the 40% dmg out of the window

[hearty pecan]

let me skip sandbagging node pls or reduc ap sanbagging

can't help when you has 10k ehp

[cursive comet]

@proper flare this is intended right?

[proper flare]

Uhh

If it doesn't kill the clone then yes it won't provide the damage bonus

[cursive comet]

thank you

[versed crypt]

was the night cloak knives and violent vortex change meant to nerf regular shade too or just hmelee

[proper flare]

Uhh

I wasn't really involved with that change so I'm not sure on why that happened

[versed crypt]

It nerfed the already inconsistent dps in a real raid (without buffs) from like 900 -> 600k dps 😔

[wraith vale]

seems reasonable tbh 600dps is still pretty good

[versed crypt]

With shade’s risk factor and how it loses access to clones + can only get that dps when boss is standing still, that’s a really hard hit imo

Bosses rarely stand still like that unless it’s TCC

[dusk nova]

yooo, can we get a clip of this

[thorny marsh]

playing hsr rn
I can hop on beta in a bit

[heavy halo]

Nerfed bug abuse 😔

[heavy halo]

What is this supposed to mean??

[thorny marsh]

the tentacles arent doing anything

[heavy halo]

Qaha

[versed crypt]

in all honesty I genuinely don’t think that can really be labeled as bug abuse, you physically just played the game normally and that was the effect it had on it so it just feels like a nerf

[dusk nova]

helloo @acoustic frigate does this mob count

I can't forward the video for some reason. but yes thank you again for the clip!

[heavy halo]

Unintended behaviour = bug

[versed crypt]

was fallen having healing also an unintended behavior 🥀

[fluid sphinx]

its not as bad as 2.0

[fluid sky]

Trickster is soo freaking good

I love it, I'm gonna change mine assassin to trick on main

[proper flare]

[fluid sky]

I spent all my emeralds to play trickster one week before LOL

I don't regret it

[cobalt crypt]

Comparing shits to piss

[fluid sphinx]

idk feels kinda wordy

[thorny marsh]

wordy

[simple iron]

what does it mean by salvage? does it automatically spread to other enemies?

oh wait i’m dumb

[dusk nova]

the point behind hoodwink is to let you trigger tricks against crowds, when enemies tend to die before you even get to trigger them w shift + dash

you save their tricks, then shift + spin against a full-health crowd to gain their effects (particularly soul siphon for survivabilty)

[analog field]

So whats the intended gameplay loop for reworked trickster

[fluid sky]

I just forgot about this ability so I was thinking debuffs sucks for crowds of mobs LOL

[analog field]

debuff stacking, then spell comboing?

im a simple heavy melee shadestepper guy and i cannot comprehend the playstyle

[dusk nova]

it boils down to multi-spin-multi-spin

but your tools are flexible enough that they can be used in diff ways

[analog field]

would you say its dependent on spell use and mana sustain?

[dusk nova]

that's where the skill ceiling comes from. the perceived complexity I think is coming from the debuffs and tricks, but they're passive enough that you can ignore them while cycling so I'd say the skill floor is not that high either

[analog field]

due to the large amount of spells required to apply effects

[dusk nova]

people are finding it so yeah

[analog field]

okay

personally i think heavy melee shadestepper is like the perfect combination of spell and melee

[dusk nova]

but it's not egregiously mana-hungry. it can sustain even w/o nirv

[analog field]

you dont have to worry about not having enough mana to keep your knives and marks active if you are paying attention to it

[fluid sphinx]

chris do you mind helping zeny understand how sorcery works with chaos explosion?

[dusk nova]

i don either lololololol

[fluid sphinx]

the new t2 arcanist mythic is doing +50% damage

yeah

[cobalt crypt]

Ehh its pretty hard to sustain especially with mana steal since its pretty sporadic

[analog field]

from my playing experience i feel like this is correct

[cobalt crypt]

Ive seen people sustain without nirv but most of them were using consus

[analog field]

theres a lot of stuff you need to have active to get the debuffs and do damage

[fluid sphinx]

its a pain theres no mana sustain, just a teensy bit would be so cool

[cobalt crypt]

Yeah not too much its pretty close to being good

[dusk nova]

I'd rather see it be less reliant on mana than give it more mana tools

[cobalt crypt]

Yeah either or is good

[fluid sphinx]

honestly give - mana cost to hoodwinked

[dusk nova]

we already gave trick access to cheaper spin...

[cobalt crypt]

Idk i was using nulli had decent mr and a lot of steal but i had mana issues sometimes ima try it more later tho

[dusk nova]

idk the standard when it comes to sustain, but I tested w a build w 60 int and 60 ms

it was pretty consistent

[mighty harness]

morph flame shot with -multi cost heehee

[cobalt crypt]

I had 75 int 10mr 50ms i think

[dusk nova]

actually I can just share the build

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CH0AxGO1Wi3dQm64G0X57Qd0fc5kyFt9TDTuy0

Wynnbuilder build:
Nonexistence
Bete Noire
Aleph Null
Galleon
Finesse
Old Keeper's Ring
Momentum
Contrast
Grimtrap [e6e6e6]

my beautiful mess

[cobalt crypt]

I wanna try it raids more once the 2 actual raids work

[dusk nova]

and they just buffed galleon ❤️

[cobalt crypt]

I was thinking about swapping to galleon actually ig ill try it

[dusk nova]

all must galleon

[fluid sky]

Is that mele trick?

[dusk nova]

hybrid trick

[fluid sky]

Ehh wynnbuilder is still having old trickster soo

[dusk nova]

I did use this to test trick before beta

[thorny marsh]

grimtrap?

[deft igloo]

@stuck zealot is clone sac nonstrength and noxious gas strength

[thorny marsh]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CI0Q0nV0aE1yQm6a8eZfZXDXDXDXD1EH2W23i19Mp8N+dxakcESU0

Wynnbuilder build:
Resolution
Aquarius
Chaos-Woven Greaves
Stardew
Finesse
CR-4qnqnmcmcmcmc0d81
Diamond Hydro Bracelet
Auxetic Capacitor
Nirvana [w6w6w6]
my current build (still experiementing)

[dusk nova]

other way around

[dusk nova]

ye cuz I like ls

[fluid sky]

Uhh

Trickster is fun with rr LOL

When grimtrap mid??

[dusk nova]

fr fr

heal from damage you deal with poison make it happen

[fluid sky]

I hope grimtrap will get mid one day

Actually mythic daggers sucks

[cursive comet]

fabled dagger supremacy

after further testing, my other build will have 6s to max the enkindled charge, so it actually depends on the build

[stuck zealot]

other way

[cobalt crypt]

I think the last laugh multi hit kinda ends up trolling you with non cci mobs icl

Would be nice if it didnt launch the mob into the air

[smoky panther]

It's really boring to just wait for the cooldown of the mirror image, so I'd like some clones to come back depending on the number of trick debuffs used.

[fluid sky]

Nah it's okay

[dusk nova]

lol, might be multihit's small upwards kb stacking on top of each other

since mirror clone multi can overlap

[thorny marsh]

I never noticed that wiat what

chat
I dont think it is detonating them

it only applies it
but it doesnt detonate it

@dusk nova wake up I found anotha one

[dusk nova]

omg it only detonates if they already have tricks beforehand

good catch

[thorny marsh]

huh

guh I have to test that as well??
it took so long to stack those 40 tricks

[dusk nova]

lmao

well I just tested it myself so

[thorny marsh]

seems like it consumed 90 that time

[dusk nova]

no, it counted as consuming 50 tricks

wait actually I might've confused my math

no yep. this showed that

• hoodwink auto-consume counts the previous amount of tricks
• distraction extends debuffs based on the total tricks consumed, not on the extra tricks beyond the threshold

at least if consumed w hoodwink

[thorny marsh]

35s confused
15s base duration
this means that you get 20s from extra tricks
you can get 20s from 50 extra tricks
that means in total it counted 80?

confused debuff is working on me too ig

wait you can only get 20s extra duration??

[thorny marsh]

chris is this indended??

[dusk nova]

well what's intended is that it adds +0.4s per extra trick beyond the threshold

since the debuffs have diff thresholds, it means they shouldn't get extended by the same amount. but they did, all 20s

20/0.4 = 50, which is why I assumed that it counted the tricks beforehand cuz that's only where 50 appeared in this case

[cobalt crypt]

Yeah it probably is

[thorny marsh]

I did 90 tricks and I only got 30s dmg reduction
75 tricks counted for extra duration = +30s
you get 10s base duration
it shouldve been 40s debuff

after I detonated 75 tricks I got 25s dmg reduction
60 overflow tricks = 24s
10s base duration
shoudlve been 34s

is the base duration not applied??
since that would explain these (mostly)

[dusk nova]

ok i tested a theory and I think it's confirmed

[thorny marsh]

I think I found it ill type my theory out

It sets duration to 10s for every 15 tricks that has been applied
this means it resets it at 15, 30, 45 etc

[dusk nova]

oh, we got diff theories

mine is that distraction increases your debuff duration based on the extra tricks beyond your highest threshold

[thorny marsh]

I can check that

[dusk nova]

e.g. if you have distraction (15+ tricks), misdirection (30+ tricks), and toxic sludge (20+ tricks), then distraction will extend all debuffs per trick above 30 (highest threshold)

if you only had distraction and toxic sludge, it would be above 20. if you have soul siphon, above 40

[thorny marsh]

I think your theory is right (this was 30 trick)

[dusk nova]

so this did consume 90 tricks. you had 50 tricks beyond the highest threshold (soul siphon, 40), so it extended durations by 20s (50*0.4)

[thorny marsh]

I still feel like thats unintended...

[dusk nova]

it is yeah lol

[thorny marsh]

or the ability description is misleading

[dusk nova]

imma report it. thank u for working w me here

[heavy halo]

Result of hasty changes

[languid radish]

Foul Play doesn't work if you just used Bamboozle prior to Mirror Image cuz it's still technically on cooldown; is this intended?

[dusk nova]

it isss but it sucks

cuz it means boozling out of vanish for mirror image won't proc foul play

[dusk nova]

could be allowed if mirror image procced upon entering vanish, not exiting. hmmmmmm

[thorny marsh]

just do smoke bomb out of vanish

[dusk nova]

bbbut surprise strike...

and boozling out of vanish feels pretty cool

[thorny marsh]

you take suprise strike?

[dusk nova]

no but this would let you

[cobalt crypt]

You can

Especially if you want marks its an option

[thorny marsh]

those seem like less dps... but I cant really test with these cds

[dusk nova]

maybe we should let boozle proc satsu again, since it's no longer 1200% base dps

[thorny marsh]

oh fun fact
shadow clone disappearing procs satsujin

[dusk nova]

though I think rn mirror last laugh also procs satsu lmao

[cobalt crypt]

Couldnt tell exactly but marks trick is pretty good dps

[fluid sphinx]

I can't test stuff because I can't level up 😭

is there no way to get to max level on the beta instantly

[burnt girder]

level up bombs

[fluid sphinx]

wh

where are they

[fluid sphinx]

also bamboozle out of vanish doesn't allow you to cast again to even with clones

[dry granite]

are there any plans to change the damage from what trickster can currently obtain?

it can get pretty crazy if built for damage ngl

[cursive comet]

bamboozle with multihit on clone slay

[cursive comet]

does this work?

[stuck zealot]

yeah probably

i think we’re just kinda more focused on getting all the abilities right first

[dry granite]

fair enough! that does need some work

i think the biggest offender for damage is just Noxious

the damage it gives is just. what the hell.

and it stacks with other forms of strength

[stuck zealot]

yea shit is insane and also easily the first thing to get scaled down

[dry granite]

it should give less than half of the bonus to allies if it's going to stack with Fortitude or Vengeful

[stuck zealot]

i wanna actually do every boss at level with trickster before i start pushing spell mult changes or nerfs to earlier parts of the tree tbh but noxious is like . yeah

[dry granite]

that is fair

one thing i will note is that the tricks dont really do that much damage on their own

like 75% of Trickster's damage comes from Boosting up last laugh clone casts with Finality and extra hits.

[cursive comet]

agreed, free multihit and bamboozle with 1 multihit cost as well

[dry granite]

given the fact that last laugh casts do not cancel each other upon another clone it just ends up being the large bulk of trickster's DPS, which is then boosted by Nox

the tricks are cool concepts but end up being weak in comparison to just casting spells. The Overhealth one is nice at least but the other effects dotn do much

[dry granite]

yeah the only thing trickster struggles with is sustain but if you're playing Assassin you should just innately expect sustain issues atp 😭

[cursive comet]

i hope they bring up mana/life sustain into ATree

[dry granite]

yeah

[cursive comet]

cuz thats what've been the problem, i heard ppl say nirvana is the only 1 can be played comfortably

[dry granite]

i think trickster just needs to be kinda... balanced out in terms of what it does

• Lower its damage
• Give it more sustainability (Mana too low, Cooldowns can feel a bit high (Shadow Projection especially), Sandbagging can be hard to use as there is no way to get aggro properly)
• Tricks feel awkward to build
• Moving its support from Noxious into the Tricks could be fun.

[stuck zealot]

[cursive comet]

Syncope cant use sandbagging that much cuz cant get the clone sacrifice buff

[stuck zealot]

syncope is its own thing tbh

[cursive comet]

dashy2

[stuck zealot]

also it does have def and i think some small amount of sustain

but yea hmm probably aspect reliant

[cursive comet]

yeah, i'll try it out when the server is live

[cursive comet]

the new aspects seems cool

[dry granite]

lol

[cursive comet]

especially to prolong noxious gases uptime

[reef lion]

damage per screenshot

[cursive comet]

i saw someone did 2m, fkin crazy

[stuck zealot]

obli cannot be that bad either tbh

[cursive comet]

aaa i see

[dry granite]

im using it a lot, it's amazing

[stuck zealot]

steals on trickster has gotta be at least decent with how close u are to the boss at almost all times

[dry granite]

that is about it tho. the mana issues restrict a lot of other weapons being good

[cursive comet]

I WISH CONTAMINATED AND DISTRACTION SWAP PLACES HAHAHAHHA

[reef lion]

the dps is pretty random i have no idea how did i did 1.1m

[stuck zealot]

yea, real

[dry granite]

also the Shadow projection jump is really fun to utilize

i do hope the cooldown is lowered aside from the aspect (i cant even get the aspect rn :,) )

ngl tho i feel like if Noxious gets nerfed Trickster will be generally pretty balanced in its current state

however if it is made to be more functional and cosnsitent with its abilities that might be a reasonable cause for more nerfs :p

[cursive comet]

i can agree with that

[reef lion]

i think critting matters alot
61.7% doesnt really do the job well

[dry granite]

@stuck zealot https://medal.tv/games/minecraft/clips/kLELANt1A4vTazYMS?invite=cr-MSxidzgsMjcxNzU1MjA4&v=105

the 2nd part of the health bar got sent directly to hell

(0:55 seconds in)

[stuck zealot]

gaw dam

[dusk nova]

hello, I think the one way to make this happen is to move mirror image to vanish entry, not exit

that or make an exception for multihit to check for vanish first before casting the spell

[dry granite]

@pearl cedar if youre interested in Trickster stuff u can check this out. I'll also be posting a winning attempt once it uploads

[fluid sphinx]

that would be cool tbh

just reduce the cooldown slightly

[dry granite]

https://medal.tv/games/minecraft/clips/kLFiD4VQKXeUSl-h6?invite=cr-MSwwRFQsMjcxNzU1MjA4&v=108

i kinda noobed at the third part of Phase 1, didnt consume tricks so i dealt no damage and i had to play safe for a sec

[pearl cedar]

bet ty

[pearl cedar]

this would solve so many issues yes pls

[gritty wharf]

Currently casting bamboozle / multihit on a wall will cause you to spend mana, start a bamboozle timer, but no spell will be casted at all, pls fix

[acoustic frigate]

Yeah they aren't meant to

the detonation damage of tricks is basically only there for progression in the early/midgame and to make the concept a lot easier to understand

[simple iron]

i do like how progression is being considered in these reworks, noticed it especially with acro

[dry granite]

ah ok

[cursive comet]

I hope toxic sludge and misdirection swap places haha

[cobalt crypt]

Btw if you put your shadow projection in the instructions room in a raid you can tp back there 💀💀💀

[dry granite]

lol?

[neon cloak]

Time for some funny trolling moments

Grab the light then tp back to the instruction room.

[dry granite]

LOL OH HELL NO

[neon cloak]

So if you tp back can you still go through the door?

[proper flare]

[cobalt crypt]

What door?

[neon cloak]

Instruction room door

[cobalt crypt]

Nah u get stuck

[neon cloak]

Truly a way to troll your team

[dry granite]

ok im not gonna lie i did not see that mirror image gave a damage bonus when a clone dies

WHY IS IT 40%?? 😭

this damage bonus doesnt even need to be there and trickster would still be good!

[gentle fiber]

Would anyone describe Trick detonation as satisfying?

[dry granite]

i think it is, it's cool to see the Trick effects in action

albeit some of them can feel a little weak... but they're still cool regardless

[still lava]

You mena detonate for a billion debuffs...?

Honestly it is ridiculously funny seeing enemies get like stage 4 cancer lmao...

[gentle fiber]

more for damage
is like a bunch of explosions crackling or is it a blip and that's it?

[dry granite]

the detonation is just a blip

there is a particle effect for this

the other trick effects i do not think have any particles

[gentle fiber]

The desc vaguely reminded me of my beloved old Void Detonators ability from another game

ah well

-# void abilities applying detonators on hit, the further hits detonating the detonators, and detonator exploions cointing as void abilities...

[simple iron]

lol yeah, tbh i feel like the clones tanking hits for you part should be removed so you don’t lose a bamboozle if you get hit… idk if the 40% is gonna be utilized very much since it relies on you being hit. i feel like the clones should just stay and be used just to proc bamboozle but idk if that’s a crackpot idea

[dry granite]

you can use Foul Play to pop the clones for you to allow for incredible bursts of damage

[simple iron]

maybe the damage bonus could be smaller and granted when you consume a clone with bamboozle? idk?

[simple iron]

yeah that’s what i mean, getting hit could mess that up

[dry granite]

ah

[simple iron]

wait does the 40% proc when you use foul play

[dry granite]

ya

[simple iron]

oh jeez that’s kinda busted lol

[dry granite]

yep LOL

again why tf is it 40%?? 😭

that needs a fat nerf

[simple iron]

maybe like 10 or 15% because it’s basically passive if you’re cycling bamboozle and spin

and then clones can’t tank for you i feel like that would just be nice

[dry granite]

Im ngl the current trickster's huge damage just comes from the fact that it has 2 of the highest sources of multiplicative damage in the game that then stack with each other to become even higher

if trickster just didnt have such insane multiplicative numbers, trickster's damage being too high just wouldnt be a balance concern anymore

@stuck zealot thoughts?

[stuck zealot]

uh yep probably true i cannot lie

[dry granite]

like legit just reduce Mirror Image and Nox gas

the rest of the damage is completely fine

[stuck zealot]

it gets more absurd when you have other buffs on top of noxious too ngl

[simple iron]

btw what do you think about clones not tanking hits anymore so using foul play is more consistent?

[dry granite]

exactly

although the 100% uptime on 40% mult damage from Mirror Image makes it so that external buffs from classes are unlikely to apply.

the only thing Trickster doesnt have is a vulnerability afflictor

[stuck zealot]

making nox overrule would be a lil sad tho :c id rather have it just be weaker

[stuck zealot]

yeah true

[dry granite]

honestly

does mirror image even need that 40% damage mult like at all?

[stuck zealot]

was in my original concept for the class but realized it was average player unfriendly due to forced extreme close proximity to bosses

[dry granite]

you're already rewarded MASSIVELY for popping clones at the right time

multihit casting and stacking with other multis is already insane

[stuck zealot]

yh

[dry granite]

the 40% damage mult just feels completely needless when you already have effects that good

and then adding nox on top of that just makes the multiplied damage get multiplied again 😭

this is why Aco was/is broken

[neon cloak]

Do we have a solid answer on if building more ehp (defense) is superior to ETW

[dry granite]

not rly. it depends on playstyle

[stuck zealot]

^

[dry granite]

also the fact that Sandbagging instantly gives back all cooldown makes it very hard to test :P

[stuck zealot]

^

patch soon i hope

[dry granite]

🙏

[simple iron]

🙏

[neon cloak]

Trickster gets reworked and it's the most OP thing ever, not fair :<

[dry granite]

meanwhile acro

[gentle fiber]

I have been waiting for SO LONG for a trickster type to be viable

[dry granite]

idk trickster has the potential to be a class with a really high reward for skill expression

it just needs to not do yknow. like over 1 mil dps in bursts for multiple seconds

my main thing is like

idrk what would be a good number to change the multipliers to...

[neon cloak]

I want to sync my obli build from live servers to beta so I can properly test trickster again...

[dry granite]

like how bad would it be if Mirror Image's damage multiplier was just thrown out the window? would noxious still need a nerf? ... probably

honestly if Noxious was just made to not be so effective on allies it'd probably be a lot better

maybe reduce the numbers on yourself a bit too

[neon cloak]

How often do you proc sandbagging?

Oh wait

[dry granite]

uh idk. it's when you get hit for a portion of your HP

there's an aspect that doubles the threshold of the ability proccing. that aspect is absurdly strong (even if Sandbagging didnt make all your cooldowns immediately go away, it'd be a good aspect)

[cobalt crypt]

Cant lie it was way to inconsistent with etw i could not be asked

[dry granite]

i found it could be procced at least somewhat often on ETW obli

Raid buffs will likely help with this too i bet

[cobalt crypt]

I was using nirv in tna and i was stuck with that fat ass cd a lot of times idrk

[neon cloak]

With CWG?

[dry granite]

crafted

CWG is bad because of negative stats negating the effects of raid buffs

[neon cloak]

Oh right

[dry granite]

you sometimes would. idk it's kinda inconsistent

[cobalt crypt]

Idk its hard to gauge trick cause sandbagging is bugged

[neon cloak]

Won't mention the ingredients

[dry granite]

it's probably something you can get good at the more you play

[cobalt crypt]

I mean yeah but having to rely on getting hit is always gonna be scuffed so i hope something else to reduce clone cd is added

[dry granite]

agreed

[cobalt crypt]

I do like sandbagging tho cause it incentivizes building for something other than damage

[dry granite]

do you use duplicity? that node sucks cuz of the fat cd

[cobalt crypt]

Not on etw

[dry granite]

yea

[cobalt crypt]

I used it with nulli

[fluid sphinx]

trick is very good, needs more support than dps tbh

[dry granite]

if only trickster didnt do so much fucking damage to the point where it doesnt really matter lol

[cobalt crypt]

Yeah it does way to much

[dry granite]

i do think ETW trickster should still have the ability to be its own burst playstyle

the main issue with tank trickster (at least i think)

is that you cannot reliably get aggro. dgas is gone and nothing gives aggro anymore

[neon cloak]

I have an idea

[dry granite]

the class's movement caters to ETW a lot more

[neon cloak]

Order a big mac!

[dry granite]

very snappy and long range

[dry granite]

get out

[cobalt crypt]

Idk i cant really judge trick to well rn cause sandbagging is bugged

[stuck zealot]

TO be honest i have like six different trickster major ids brewing for different playstyles but it’s at the point where i consider if they should really be majors or if some part of it should be added to an ability

[dry granite]

yeah this does mess things up. i mostly gauge it off of how effectively it can utilize the clones and that alone makes it super broken

[cobalt crypt]

Its pretty scuffed to get clones in tcc tho cause that guy does not fight back

[stuck zealot]

also yea real

[dry granite]

depends on how important they are tbh

[stuck zealot]

idk how much the at team is gonna want to tweak for the first trick patch but

[dry granite]

like if it's a major ID that you could see everyone running all the time, might as well be a ndoe

[simple iron]

solution: make tcc do unavoidable 1 damage every second during the fight

[cobalt crypt]

Yeah fair

Imma wait for some changes and see

[dry granite]

same

[cobalt crypt]

Its really fun tho

[dry granite]

i hope there are at least a fair chunk of tweaks cuz the current state is a bit much 😟

[stuck zealot]

i kinda need to lock in and start suggesting stuff but ya

[dry granite]

like all it has to be is number tweaks and bug fixes and there will be so much more to test

[stuck zealot]

yup

patch 1: we have changed nothing and added a res shred debuff! and we made smoke bomb radius larger

[cobalt crypt]

Also if the other 2 raids could work that would be great 🙏

[dry granite]

YES! WINNER CHANGE! LETS GO

[simple iron]

make this the only patch that will ever have any trickster changes and then we’re winning

[dry granite]

LOL yeah 😭

[stuck zealot]

they’ve been fixed

[dry granite]

oh they work rn?

[stuck zealot]

nono gm side

[dry granite]

fuck 😡

[stuck zealot]

actually tna void room works perfectly fine as long as you ARENT looking at the void matter when you harvest it

[dry granite]

??? WAT 💀

thats like the one thing it was supposed to make not happen LMAO

[cobalt crypt]

Oh is that how it works

[stuck zealot]

yeah someone got the condition wrong and made it work when you aren’t looking instead of when u were looking

[dry granite]

thats really funny

[stuck zealot]

it’s been fixed but idk when the beta patch is coming out

[dry granite]

surely soon 🙏

[stuck zealot]

something something last minute change that didn’t get tested

[dry granite]

[simple iron]

beta patch 😍

[simple iron]

bro why is it so pixelated lmao

[dry granite]

144p troll

[cobalt crypt]

Lock noxious gas behind a paywall

[dry granite]

genius really

also it's like

really really really really really hard to tell if Misdirection is doing anything

like i just cannot tell

atp i just use it as a "20% more thunder dmg and +1 debuff" node 😭

it would be nice if it could have some indicator that it was actually activating or something. maybe a small effect around the mob

[cobalt crypt]

I like how sandbagging gives an advantage to eph without it being a shit and toxic node (provoke)

[dry granite]

true that design is good

i do believe that the meta build will likely involve something that allows Sandbagging to activate at least somewhat consistently while also building enough damage to be good

maybe TWA obli? nirv?

[proper flare]

Inferno?

[dry granite]

ehhhh

[cobalt crypt]

Hell nah 😭😭

[dry granite]

sustain is not good enough, nor is the damage really

[proper flare]

Nulli?

[dry granite]

maybe actually. prob less damage than nirv or obli but the MS could work. youd prob also never die

[cobalt crypt]

I dont think it will be meta but its pretty good from what ive seen

[dry granite]

yeah

[cobalt crypt]

You get the 2 debuffs from the major id plus it got that defense

[dry granite]

The main issue again with Nulli (and tanking on Trick at all) is that you cannot keep aggro consistently

[cobalt crypt]

Yeah this

[proper flare]

-# I just want to use my 80% inferno ;-;

[dry granite]

the short range does mean you can just sit on the boss but it wont always target you.

Especially with vanish!!

vanish makes aggro on trickster like never exist consisttently

[proper flare]

Anyways Trick having some sort of agro, towards yourself would be good tbh

[cobalt crypt]

Ms is a lil weird with trick tho cause its sporadic but it works

[proper flare]

Or more consistent ways to activate sandbagging

[dry granite]

agreed, it should be some node on the side like how DGas was to allow for both ETW and EHP builds to have preference

[dry granite]

if obli works so can nulli imo

[cobalt crypt]

Yeah nah i been using nulli it works its just a lil wonky sometimes atleast

[dry granite]

this works too! if trickster didnt rely on getting hit to proc sandbagging then both EHP and ETW builds could coexist

EHP builds would benefit more from Sandbagging but ETW builds would still get their fair share

i think giving alternative ways to activate sandbagging will be more healthy.

DGas Glue was just toxic to boss design and i'd prefer not to see that again 😭

[cursive comet]

I hope so

[cursive comet]

I js wish it swapped place with toxic sludge haha

[reef lion]

Fr This is obvious when i see etw max tricks detonation only deals 120k explode on crit

[thorny marsh]

hear me out, what if clones disappearing would make other clones cd lower
if mirror clone disappears: shadow clone cd decreases by 2s
if shadow clone disappears: mirage clone cd decreases by 1s
if mirage clone disappears: mirror clone cd decreases by 2s

[gritty wharf]

i was about to say that trickster doesnt really feel like a debuffer when all its debuffs are only effective for themselves, but this is a welcome change

[thorny marsh]

I honestly thought the elemental debuffs would be team wide

[gritty wharf]

before this change the only team thing trickster did was buff

[thorny marsh]

and was disappointed that they werent

[gritty wharf]

which is uhhhhh whattt?

[thorny marsh]

will it be announced somewhere when beta patch comes out?

[stuck zealot]

prob

[thorny marsh]

and do you know if beta acolyte's eldritch call is getting fixed?

[acoustic frigate]

Ye

[thorny marsh]

Awesome

[gentle fiber]

me playing pure 100% trick before patch so I can compare them better

ok yeah this sucks hard

[dusk nova]

which does

[proven hazel]

lowkey gonna miss old trickshade damage

[simple iron]

new trickster!! old trickster is so much better just revert it atp…

-# /j

[fluid sphinx]

you need fatality for it to actually be good and its ass

[dusk nova]

trickster w blade fury can be pretty fun

at least that's what I use rn. and diversion lmao

[deft igloo]

@dusk nova if u use the shadow clone cd aspect can u have 2 shadow clones active at once and if so how does the teleporting work

[dusk nova]

oo actually idk

I don't think any of us tested lol

[fluid sphinx]

😭

all the aspects are bugged

[dusk nova]

it's not bugged we just dk how it works!!!! :troll

man I wish you can give yourself aspects in beta

-# if you still can't, I'm not updated

[heavy halo]

max 1 iirc

[thorny marsh]

it still doesnt detonate them (if they had 0 tricks)
but at least it now applies it to enemies

[dusk nova]

ayyyoooo hotfix pushed????

hotfix patch notes

• Reduced Mirror Image Damage Bonus (40% >> 30%)
• Changed Last Laugh requirements
  • removed Node Requirement (Mirror Image >> none)
  • increased Trickster Requirement (0 >> 3)
• Rebalanced Mirage
  • changed Node Requirement (Mirror Image >> Bamboozle)
  • reduced Trigger Radius (1.5 Blocks >> 0.75 Blocks)
• Increased Sandbagging Trickster Requirement (0 >> 3)
• Reduced Duplicity additional Cooldown (+10s >> +5s)
• Rebalanced Hoodwink
  • reduced Ability Points requirement (2 >> 1)
  • changed Node Color (Purple >> Yellow)
  • increased salvaged Tricks (25% >> 50%)
• Rebalanced Misdirection
  • reduced Tricks requirement (30 >> 25)
  • increased Confusion Thunder Damage Bonus (+20% >> +30%)
• Increased Contaminated Earth Damage Bonus (+20% >> +30%)
• Rebalanced Deflagrate
  • reduced Enkindled per hit (+3% >> +1%)
  • increased Enkindled Fire Damage Bonus (+20% >> +30%)
• Rebalanced Noxious
  • reduced damage per debuff (+12% >> +10%)
  • reduced ally bonus percentage (50% >> 30%)
• Rebalanced Soul Siphon
  • reduced Tricks requirement (40 >> 30)
  • increased Drained Water Damage Bonus (+20% >> +30%)
  • reduced Drained Cooldown (3s >> 2s)
• Rebalanced Trickster's Embodiment of Malevolent Mischief
  • Tier 3: Reduced Noxious additional damage per debuff (+1.35% >> +1%)

[thorny marsh]

is this the inteded behaviour?

[dusk nova]

no still broken 🥀

it's gonna be a dev thing to change. most likely guaranteed to have been fixed next patch

I'm just not sure if there's gon be a hotfix for it. but for now we buffed trick salvage %!!!
-# w more number changes cuz those are readily doable

[thorny marsh]

it should be fine
I can just cast shift+vanish

[acoustic frigate]

closest one

[thorny marsh]

noxious duration stacks??

nvm

is this intended?
the wood platform is roughly the aoe of smoke bomb
noxious is not taken away even after smoke bomb disappears if I'm in the area

[cursive comet]

oo fr, time to test it out

[cursive comet]

oo yeah i noticed it as well

[thorny marsh]

note: the effect is not applied when entering that zone, it only works for resetting duration

oh and deflagrate is still single target

[fluid sphinx]

is warrior still bad

[versed crypt]

30% intoxicating blood -> 40% intoxicating blood 🔥

[cursive comet]

uhh, is contaminated not triggering?

Confused and misdirection is there, but contaminated is not to be found

[thorny marsh]

works for me

[cursive comet]

wuttt

[fluid sphinx]

same here

[thorny marsh]

did u not take the ability?

[cursive comet]

aight

imma /class, and yeah i took it

[cursive comet]

weirdly enough, it doesnt appear to me

its finally fine now, i reset the whole tree and redo it again

yep its good now, finally got the contaminated debuff on

thanks guys

[thorny marsh]

this is still an issue btw

[dusk nova]

this is p much all that's changed

for all intents and purposes, if it ain't here it ain't changed

[fluid sphinx]

exploding tricks still feels clunky tbh

[gentle fiber]

So beta is being constantly updated then? I was told it wasn't

[fluid sphinx]

things that require dev work haven't been touched

[gentle fiber]

so no store changes?

[fluid sphinx]

https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1399252027787186309

here's all the changes

[cursive comet]

are the hotfixes gonna be a regular thing? and is it like scheduled?

[fluid sphinx]

no

but there will be big changes on release

[thorny marsh]

powder masters are on strike 🙃

[still lava]

On the topic of which...

It is weird they aren't interactable in beta afaik...

[cursive comet]

Aspect of Enduring Illusions
has this always been there?

[deft igloo]

it should be the one first placed ngl

like old totem

[acoustic frigate]

Could do that

[deft igloo]

yes please

[reef lion]

Really wanna try trickster with the new aspects

wtb Aspect lender

[cursive comet]

Are there?

[reef lion]

❌

how do I know a aspect is too op or too weak if I can’t even try it myself

[still lava]

Which one

[reef lion]

Prankster(i think it can improve the tree sometimes)

I only think of that because it is special

[fluid sphinx]

trickster on its own is quite good (some aspects are questionable) and I can't wait

new sandbagging aspect is 🔥

[cursive comet]

@fluid sphinx what do u think abt this?

[fluid sphinx]

you aren't able to ping me

[cursive comet]

eh

[deft igloo]

Does hoodwink work with the spins casted by clones @stuck zealot

[acoustic frigate]

yep

[thorny marsh]

it does????
omg thats huge

[reef lion]

idk it needs you to shift feels uhh

the damage doesn’t worth to do that ig

[thorny marsh]

?

no you can literally insta apply max tricks with one bamboozle+shift-spin

from hoodwink

[dusk nova]

you can do that??

[thorny marsh]

ye

I didnt know either

[dusk nova]

that's sick

[fluid sphinx]

wait what?

was it changed??

[thorny marsh]

ye it fixed my main concern with trickster lol
not being able to apply tricks well enough

[simple iron]

yo that’s awesome

[reef lion]

🤯

but i still don’t have ap for it

Silent killer qol in crowds and sticky bomb best qol oberall

Maybe can drop silent killer

[cursive comet]

do u take surprise strike?

then i think silent killer pretty good crowd-wise

[reef lion]

Yeah i do because that tree also has marked

But in reality i think you still have to go full trick outside tcc for maximum noxious gas

[dry granite]

i still think Mirror Image's damage bonus is too high

honestly i dont think it should be there at all. it's a large part of why trickster's damage is so overtuned

30% damage bonus is nothing to scoff at whatsoever. on top of that, this damage bonus just comes from Trickster's innate gameplay loop. Trickster does nothing special from what it normally does in order to obtain this insane damage bonus

Other classes have to work for this kind of bonus.

Vengeful requires proximity to the Aco's totem, Lightbender builds it up as it heals over time.

Mirror Image essentially grants this bonus for free. All you have to do is pop a clone. This is what trickster wants to do literally constantly anyways! It feels like very far beyond other Damage Bonuses in both Strength and ease of use.

On top of that the damage bonus lasts for 3 seconds and the cooldown is only 1. The cooldown feels pointless at that point, why even have it there? I don't see what it accomplishes

Trickster's damage is so insanely high right now that I feel like this class could fully lose its damage bonus from this node and still be entirely fine in terms of viability and strength

[cobalt crypt]

Yeah i cant lie this damage bonus is a little too free

Me personally i think fort and vengeful are free too but you get the 30% for existing basically

I havent tested out trick with the new changes so idrk

[dry granite]

yeah the free buffs are comparatively expensive compared to this lol

[simple iron]

idk if this is a bad idea but maybe the whole clones taking damage for you and giving the damage bonus thing could just be removed, and the only way to get rid of them is with bamboozle/foul play? i feel like clones tanking for you doesn’t do much for the archetype and means you lose a possible bamboozle, and with getting hit being such an integral part of the playstyle it feels like that could mess people up

[cursive comet]

i agree that its basically free real estate

[soft mirage]

Is it known that Foul Play sometimes does not seem to work? I think the following is not intentional:
(Take some tree with Foul Play)
Start without clones: vanish and use multihit while vanished to exit it and spawn in the clones, now you cannot bamboozle until the cooldown wears off, even though you have clones. Why does Foul Play not apply here? It does start to apply after the first bamboozle cooldown wears off, as then you can repeatedly slay all your clones without cooldown.

[fluid sphinx]

:c yeah its because you get clones as you exit

[soft mirage]

If it is intended I think the wording on Foul Play is somewhat unclear: "having 'no' cooldown" would make me think I could cast Bamboozle when having clones up under any circumstances

[cursive comet]

Yeah its a known issue, they are working on it as well

[cursive comet]

Syncope's Heat Shimmer MID not working for me

not applying tricks at all

Enkindled and Contaminated not proccing for me

[glacial roost]

i will join this thread since i tested trickster roughly on beta despite being basically unplayable since instead of casting shadow projection i get literal creative fly instead

i should probably read this whole thread before commenting but just to put it out there i feel like the whole archetype depends on sandbagging

i guess it was the point but i will have to wait for live until knowing whether or not that’s good since the dps is good with clones but the consistency is terrible without sandbagging

also they don’t spawn after you reappear they spawn right as you cast vanish

other things is yeah kindled doesn’t work, shadow projection flight, and if bamboozle is on cool down while you have mirror clone up then it doesn’t slay clones and instead waits for the bamboozle cool down which is very annoying

[acoustic frigate]

yeah this is because we changed that lol

so that you can boozle out of vanish to slay a clone we changed the order

[glacial roost]

probably need to change the description then since i think it still says that on beta

unrelated but speaking of description changes shepherd needs one too

[cursive comet]

will there be BETA Hotfix 2.1.3_3?

[glacial roost]

most likely

trickster still has flight bug

[languid radish]

could you guys make it so that Mirror Image clears or ignores Bamboozle's cooldown with Foul Play?
changing when Clones spawn fixed the jank of casting Bamboozle out of Vanish, but there's still the issue of casting Bamboozle right before Vanish + Mirror Image, where there's a few seconds of not being able to slay your Mirror Clones because the cooldown is still active

[glacial roost]

pretty sure leo said its intentional

however this mechanic is Super Annoying so i dont see why its intentional

[simple iron]

yea that would be nice

[cursive comet]

Will there be any mana sustain nodes for trickster? Ive heard of it but didnt see any confirmation yet right?

[neon cloak]

Probably not and there shouldn't be

Time to make fun of trickster for being the only assassin archetype that doesn't bare a mana node.

Or maybe its the one making fun of us for relying on mana printing...

[glacial roost]

has the overheal been discussed here already?

it kinda sucks

i think its a good idea to limit it but not this low

[proven hazel]

Was there ever a plan to implement cd reduction without getting hit

[proper flare]

It was planned but there wasn't enough space to fit it

[pearl cedar]

@dry granite is trick still better without using duplicity or is duplicity worth picking up now?

ok hm it does feel better to take duplicity

[glacial roost]

it is, the +cd is now 5 sec I think?

[fluid sphinx]

yeah it's absolutely worth it

[cobalt crypt]

Can mirror image be changed back to procing on exit instead of entry

[dry granite]

what if it procced on both entry and exit lol

[cobalt crypt]

Yeah as long as i can proc it on exit

Was actually mad annoying

[glacial roost]

i liked this better tbh but ithink there was some reason they changed (dont remember)

[dry granite]

it was using bamboozle out of vanish right

[neon cloak]

yes

It would activate the cooldown and you wouldn't bamboozle even if you were out of vanish with your mirror clones

[thorny marsh]

Canr cancel it now without it going on cd

[cobalt crypt]

Yeah

[cursive comet]

why do u prefer it proccing on exit?

[gentle fiber]

ok so I done used trick a little now
both nulli and bhaze cbomb spam
I be liking it

is bhaze good?
eh
its usable

[cobalt crypt]

Cause if ur on mirror image cd and u vanish u gotta exit vanish wait for its cd then vanish again to proc mirror image

Before you could vanish and wait out the cd inside vanish

[cursive comet]

yeah

[cursive comet]

i agree to autosmord

@proper flare idk who to ping, my deflagrate doesnt proc at all, i did /class, changed weapon, reset skill tree, still couldnt proc it

[proper flare]

Uhh

Wait are there multiple enemies around?

-# That bug where it only applies to 1 enemy around might still be around, idk

[cursive comet]

i even reconnect to server

[cursive comet]

only 1, and not procced

[proper flare]

Are you able to record a video?

[cursive comet]

okay will do so

[proper flare]

[cursive comet]

should i send it here?

[proper flare]

Sure

-# sorry for the delay in response

[cursive comet]

@proper flare

[cursive comet]

i also had the same bug to this but with Contaminated debuff, but after resetting skill tree it was fine

[cursive comet]

no worries

[proper flare]

Forwarded it. Ty for the report

[cursive comet]

i think my bug report was better than my QA team LOL

[cobalt crypt]

Either or works idrc

[proper flare]

Which aspects do you have on?

[cursive comet]

none. sorry for the late reply

[acoustic frigate]

Do you plan to stay in vanish for the whole cooldown lmao

We can't let you slay a clone out of vanish if there are no clones

We are happy to change to back but you would lose that ability

[dusk nova]

yea y'all should think about the pros and cons first before asking for smn

like term said, you'll lose vanish-boozle

[dusk nova]

this is worth considering, it'd just be a lil weird to give it two ways to activate (with the same ability too)

[dry granite]

moreso if i dash, it auto-casts vanish, so i have to leave vanish and wait for the cooldown. if mirror cd resets at some point during that it becomes really awkward

if clones came up both at the start and end of vanish i wouldnt be punished for using my movement ability before the clones went off cooldown, artificially increasing the cooldown even further

[dusk nova]

we shall discuss it internally

I shall pass it along

[neon cloak]

Ohhh that’s what he was referring to

Yeah it’s somewhat awkward and a thing I had to get used to

You have to cast vanish after MI cd is finished

[cobalt crypt]

I never asked for this 😭

I always spinned on exit for clones never really cared about wanting to boozle off vanish

[dusk nova]

vanish-boozle is valid tho is what I'm sayin

[glacial roost]

can the overhealth on trick be a little less meh

[dusk nova]

we can make it proc on both entry and exit tho (I think) so it's w/e

[glacial roost]

i like the idea of capping it but its a little low

[dusk nova]

is it acc that weak? I alr buffed it

[cobalt crypt]

Yeah thats fine

[glacial roost]

it's 25% max as far i see

[dusk nova]

we don't want it to be strong enough to just allow you to etw without feeling squishy

[glacial roost]

25% is a cute boost if you've built ehp for sandbagging but it's pretty much nothing on etw

[dusk nova]

also overhealth damage still counts towards sandbagging

[cobalt crypt]

Question was there another way added to proc sandbagging

[glacial roost]

no

[cobalt crypt]

Wait is it the overhealth cause it was procing in tcc and that never happened in the beta

Cause if its the overhealth that shits kinda nutty

[glacial roost]

oh i thought you were asking about cd reductoin

[cobalt crypt]

I am

[glacial roost]

sandbagging is the only way to reduce cds atm

[cobalt crypt]

Yeah im asking if theres a new way to proc sandbagging

[glacial roost]

i think adding a cap is a good idea i just think 25% is pretty low

[cobalt crypt]

Cause it was going off a lot in tcc and that never happened in the beta i had to like throw myself at the boss before

[glacial roost]

i only di like 2 tnas on beta with trick but sandbagging was just broken and insta refreshed all ur cds so it was kinda hard to tell

[dusk nova]

if it feels insignificant for tanky builds sure

it's already pretty good though. I'm surprised you said it's meh

[glacial roost]

even if you use it on etw,since the % is so low the health they get is even worse

well,obviously

just saying that even if it’s buffed it’s not like it’s going to be so strong on ETW because the health they get from it is already very low

[hearty pecan]

ETW got hit and hp reduc to 50% sandbagging can't proc trickster only fire and Air Build ?

[dusk nova]

yeah we want trick to build some ehp

so I really don't mind if it's too weak for etw

[dusk nova]

if we did this it might get too strong than we'd like for tankier builds

depends on if we have room to buff it a lil, but I really don't think so

it's not like hella good, but it's in a nice spot

[hearty pecan]

oh well but old trickster better friendly gameplay more ehp more dmg

old trickster easy support
fast reduc tier dmg enemy
fast overhealth
clone reduc more dmg for proc sandbagging
not need time for setup

[vestal star]

clones on entry is honestly kinda annoying

[hearty pecan]

and every build need clone for reduc dmg game just force take bamboozle
if shadestepper need clone but force bamboozle and bamboozle proc satsujin but not backstab and satsujin with has 10 cooldown with t3 aspect and that make backstab never proc satsujin

idk why design tree is just weird is like force build but not free build

[thorny marsh]

Is it intended that clones don't proc black hole ability?

(honestly might be better that they don't)

[gentle fiber]

Echo smokes couldn't trigger black hole before because of the sheer lag it created

[fluid sphinx]

can you give range to bamboozle?

like with aspects and existing nodes

[fluid sphinx]

why is it a separate aspect

[dusk nova]

@pearl cedar @cursive comet @fluid sphinx helloo sorry for the ping I jus wanna hear y'all's thoughts, since y'all were the most receptive to the idea when I first proposed it

(mirror image on vanish entry, to allow you to boozle right after)

there's also some cons to it, so I'm wondering if y'all still like it or not

[cursive comet]

Don't worry about the ping, I'd love to to be of a help.
In my perspective, clones on entry benefits Boozle playstyle more...

Example Scenarios:
Scenarios (Clones on Vanish Entry):

1. Vanish & Get Clones - Boozle spam enemies to hell
2. Vanish (Clones CD) - Boozle - Wait for both Boozle and Vanish CD

Scenarios (Clones on Vanish Exit):
3. Vanish - Boozle & Get Clones - Wait for Boozle CD
4. Vanish - Wait Mirror Image CD - Vanish Exit With Boozle & Get Clones - Wait for Boozle & Vanish CD

After trying it out more, i do prefer Clones on Vanish Entry, but I also understand why ppl would want Vanish on Exit, cuz technically u dont really need Mirror Clones while Vanish (no aggro).

There is a win-win solution which is Clones on Vanish Exit, but make Bamboozle reset its CD whenever a Mirror Clone is available, idk how the coding behind works, maybe u can do a checking for Bamboozle after Vanish Exit to reset its CD or just make Bamboozle keep checking for Mirror Clones availability (but idk how that will affect the server)?

Idk if I make any sense here haha. I do want to know what others think abt it as well.
(Just wanna add that Assassin is very squishy now haha)

[vestal star]

hi yes this is my trickster feedback https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1404677597555589192

[dusk nova]

hm hm hm hm

[fluid sphinx]

I think more ways to get clones would be cool, like getting them on teleport with shadow projection would be great

[knotty musk]

The trickster rework has a lot of amazing ideas, and I feel some of the changes really make Trickster much more engaging to play.
That said: The inclusion of both Bamboozle and Shadow Clone into the main Trickster ability tree is a bit obnoxious imo. Bamboozle effectively being on by default makes Trickshade extremely difficult to play, as you have to guesstimate the distance you have to TP to backstab, while also accounting for not killing yourself by hurling yourself into a boss. It also makes using Vanish to set up for a backstab a little harder, because you can't just walk up to the enemy's back and cast multi-hit/backstab, or else you'll use Bamboozle to teleport yourself directly into the boss's crosshair.

[gentle fiber]

it's called a learning curve I believe

[knotty musk]

Shadow Clone is less obnoxious, but it feels a bit like a waste of points to include as a main upgrade path ability. The clone never seems to draw enemy aggro ime, and the teleport can be very jarring to use (it stops all your momentum and teleports you, resulting in you moving in a direction you may not have wanted to, at a much slower speed than you may expect. Throw in that the double-jump TP feels a bit random as to how soon you can use it after casting a shadow clone. There have been times where I mash doublejump to get out of a nasty situation, only to get hit a whole lot before the teleport finally registers). It feels a little unnecessary to make the endgame skilltree hinge on having this specific ability unlocked.

[knotty musk]

Fair, but I still see lategame players refusing to even use Bamboozle since the rework. Way more risk and too little damage output just makes it harder to use with minimal (if any) benefit.

[gentle fiber]

that's because the rework that made bamboozle this way dropped like 2 weeks ago and not everyone has had the time to get gud
I've been doing trickster almost exclusively since the patch and even I misjudge distance sometimes still
also, Shadow Clone is a multitool and not just a movement ability- free extra Echo casting point and the fastest burst Trick applier on top of tp/escape option that has farther distance but takes longer to set up than just bamboozle

[gentle fiber]

shadow clone does not draw enemy agro at all, that's not its purpose
mirage clone draws agro

[knotty musk]

Ah, my bad

[dusk granite]

reposting from Wintel's thread:

i get the reasoning for trickster wanting to tank hits (100% base res, fire element, etc.) but its base res never really made much sense to me with how assassin is in its current state like why does shade have more disengages and survivability than full bmonk (minus war scream res) and it's a "glass cannon"? is it just due to the short range?

i'd be fine with bumping its res down and pumping the shit out of acro damage because i feel thematically it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for an assassin -- what reads in my mind as a high dps, high risk, low range option -- to be the same level of res as a warrior who is a much more traditional melee fighter

[proper flare]

-# I honestly have no clue why shade is described as a glass cannon in it's details

[dusk granite]

as for trickster itself i think it's generally a good idea but a lot of the debuffs feel very, very, weak like toxic sludge which imo shouldn't be tied to malicious mockery from a gameplay perspective -- the niche for it feels narrow -- when are you detonating 20 tricks on a target and then killing it and having a significant amount of fodder mobs in a 5 block area to do... 2 base spins of damage to?

[proper flare]

Yeah 100%

It'd be nice for it to be changed to just not need mockery or so

[dusk granite]

ya proccing off something else would be ideal

enough has been harped on about sandbagging so i won't touch on it because Not Useful Feedback atp i'd just be parroting what other people say but also uhhh yall should change the wording on Deflagrate bc it's not clear that allies can also apply enkindled to people imo

"you" is used twice here but only the trickster gets the fire damage bonus but "whenever you strike them" applies to allies, right?

[simple iron]

maybe “when they are struck by you or allies”

[cursive comet]

why is it even struck by allies as well, the buff will be gone so quick

[cursive comet]

@acoustic frigate
And also cant yall make Enkindled stay for the whole 8s to explode in order for tricksters that play Fire damage to benefit from it more, or shorten the cd for Deflagrate to counter its short duration at the least. Or u guys have other plans in mind like removing the whole elem damage bonuses?

[acoustic frigate]

yeah i said in the other thread it needs changing

that description is hella chunky too we should try to shorten it

[acoustic frigate]

I think we have some plans to make deflagrate (maybe it already happened and its still not enough?) last longer and not get popped instantly

[cursive comet]

I know it was 3% per hit before, and the change to 1% is good, but i just know about it procs off other allies as well, which i think, if i myself can 100% it in 6s, and i wonder if with allies, what is the uptime for the debuff, making the elem Fire damage bonuses uptime not 100% unlike other elem dmg bonuses?

[gentle fiber]

Yeah I didn't realize ally hits can give Enkindled
and my build grabs Deflagrate explicitly for that +30% fire damage, the detonation is just a nice side effect
guess I don't get my damage boost if I play with a boltslinger

[acoustic frigate]

Could easily add a cooldown on incrementing the %

[cursive comet]

yea ikr

[cursive comet]

yea that could be okay, or just make it explode at 8s, so we have 100% uptime

but deflagrate cd can be reduced with sandbagging, so idk haha

[gentle fiber]

decrease duration by 4, put a limit on the speed at which enkindled is built up? like 4-5/tick or smthn
can't make it once a tick per spell because then that defeats the point of echo doing it faster, which I assume is intentional

[cursive comet]

damn 4s?

[gentle fiber]

4s doesn't seem that bad
unless it is and I don't realize

[cursive comet]

it depends on the build ig, usually how many seconds u take for it to 100%?

for me it takes like 5-7s

[gentle fiber]

for my build the full 8s if I'm solo, I have this trickshade thing going on with backstab instead of multihit
when I tried full trick with nulli I was almost consistently under 6s iirc

[cursive comet]

aaa i seee

yeah backstab reduce the amt of hit

[acoustic frigate]

I wouldn't say its necessarily intentional

its just meant to be something that requires some hits to build up. We dont intend you to instantly pop it which is why we've been adjusting it

[gentle fiber]

Echo hits like 16 times on spin attack and up to 80 times over 5s with smoke bomb
I thought it was intentional lol

nevermind multihits giving like 8-11 each even before aspects get involved

[cursive comet]

easiest solution would be just make it popped after its cd is up?

[gentle fiber]

then that has counter-synergy with sandbagging, getting hit closes the damage buildup window for getting to mas Enkindled

[cursive comet]

but wouldnt it be more dps?

i didnt do the math yet, but it kinda feels like cuz u at least have 100% uptime

[proven hazel]

does anyone know if tricks work on a war tower, everyone i asked said no

[fluid sphinx]

they don't

[dry granite]

idk why or how this happens but the clones will just have the wrong cosmetics sometimes

[candid socket]

That's lowk funny they should make an option to fully randomize clone cosmetics

[neon cloak]

Fitting

[simple iron]

W changes

[deft igloo]

Also applied when sacrificing a clone with Bamboozle, using the clone closest to the target rather than always the "front left" one

when there are multiple enemies which one is the target @stuck zealot

[simple iron]

i would expect it’s the one with the highest hp like how it works with uhh i forgor

[stuck zealot]

tbh i dont know but id assume it defaults to highest hp and then if not highest hp nearest distance

[fluid sphinx]

it's distance not hp

it's a cone spell it's better to be closes in origin to you

[cursive comet]

W changes indeed

[fluid sphinx]

can you not make tricks auto trigger on max or something it feels like shift dash doesn't work sometimes

like even shift spin attack would be nice

[simple iron]

hmm it usually works fine for me, shadow projection is more inconsistent imo but i haven’t played trickster a ton

[fluid sphinx]

it's inconsistent as hell for me since I go multi spin multi spin shift dash

sometimes it just doesn't trigger

[simple iron]

weird

[fluid sphinx]

idk why you can't bind it to shift spin since hoodwink does that too

[proper flare]

2 things having the same trigger isn't ideal

[fluid sphinx]

:c

[cursive comet]

i agree with the auto trigger, but with the option of shift dash, but i do feel like shift dash sometimes doesnt work properly as well

[acoustic frigate]

If shift dash doesn't work properly then neither will something else. It's most likely just when you're cycling too fast you miss time the shift cast

[fluid sphinx]

it's odd because when I use hoodwink before multi hits the max amount it triggers them all