Official Lootrun Trials Feedback

[upper cairn]

chat is this peak

[noble peak]

this is adding a specific mechanic for a single mission

[upper cairn]

oh that's the bad thing? Damn

[daring rock]

Has anyone seen the gambling beast trial? I’ve heard it’s a thing but I haven’t gotten it yet

[upper cairn]

I've been thinking, the possibility of more challenges and challenge types was said in the lootrun thread in #1258854753345998848

could it be possible to make it so that attack-defense and slay mobs-slay targets can come from a same beacon location, since these pairs are very similar in design?

[nimble sleet]

what about special challenges thst give two beacon rewards as a rare beacon choice

[upper cairn]

you mean vibrants?

[nimble sleet]

no like one challenge thst would give both red and blue beacon

two different beacon rewards from a single beacon

[last cove]

cc

[upper cairn]

honestly, make it three to really differentiate them from vibrants, and make the challenge even harder, and I'd probably like it yeah

we yearn for the day where lootrun becomes a wiki game like isaac

okno

[daring rock]

Review of every loot run trial: All in - with ‘all in’ you can currently get 5 total rrs in a run (not including daily rrs and tokens) you’d get this by using high roller, redemption, ult sac and all in. I don’t think this trial will be taken very often as it’s just extremely risky albeit I believe in the future with more opportunities to get sac this will get better 5/10
Gambling beast - As it’s a trial you can no longer stall it and it seems to just instantly activate once you take it, this is fine to me albeit most likely wouldn’t take it unless one was doing a time run 6/10
Side Hustle - This is such a good trial, super interactive, challenging with a good reward, no more notes 10/10
Treasury Bill - Can only really see this being used when one has sacs already and they have daily rr or tokens up, that being said good trials fun to combat and a decent reward 7.5/10
Ultimate Sacrifice - This is just a fun trial to work against with good rewards, challenging but fun probably won’t take too often myself but a 10/10 regardless
Warmth Devourer - Very fun challenge with decent rewards, albeit the challenge may outweigh the rewards 8/10
Hubris - This is probably the most fun trial there is, albeit it will be a challenge not /killing out of habit to get time down or to get places faster, but besides muscle memory this is a great trial 10/10
Lights Out - I don’t see any real reason to every take this trial, as vibrancy effects every thing on a run you could do and each augmenting mission negatively to the point of never being worth it, albeit I think you could’ve had the same effect but getting rid of aqua at the most allowing for missions like materialism to keep their vibrant effects 1/10
Should Clarify: This is from the point of view of someone who does longer runs most of the times so my point of view may be slightly skewed

[brazen knoll]

I think the idea behinds lights out is that you mostly care about doing fast challenges for the reward pulls, intead of caring about the beacon effect. You could expand on that by making the trial reward also give you more beacon choices to emphasize on that

So you aren't stuck with no oranges forever, and 3 beacon choices can only do so much for challenge selection

[last cove]

i reacted already but wanna comment too; this is super helpful. Will be making some changes for next patch

[daring rock]

Glad it helped, I guess I will add 1 more trial idea that I think would be interesting while your here:
Ultimate Betrayal: Each current boon and curse effects invert for 10 missions (Every boon now has its exact same effect but negative) and each curse applied to enemies will instead be applied positively to the user. In the cases of health it’d be capped to putting the person at 1000hp with the reward being a sac and a rr

[velvet anchor]

this idea sounds sick icl but imagine some of the debuffs with like -100000 mana regen n all 😭 💔

[high ruin]

well to be completely honest its any run killer 😭

[daring rock]

True but it’d make curse frontloading interesting with that as a pay off and during the mission your taking boons, slowly becoming weaker so that when it ends your balanced out. But yea mana regen may be an issue

[nimble sleet]

i went vaqua into vpurple then vaqua into vyellow and i got 9 flying chests (2 from mat 6 from yellow 1 from ischeme) is that how its supposed to work?

[noble peak]

that seems to not be what it should be

[main oasis]

This

[daring rock]

Quick question about the Crimson Beacon, does it become more rare the further you get away from 20 challenges or does it only get more rare as you dont take it when offered?

[high ruin]

Lootrun Mission Gourmand now awards one beacon reroll per two boons offered in a boon choice menu

offered?? will it work like old equilibrium?

or it grants reroll ONLY when you choose BLUE?

[nimble sleet]

thats what im gathering from it yeah
a blue beacon or like thrill seeker

[high ruin]

i'm semi okay with this change but if its activated with blue and not boons then this mission got killed

like worse than backup beat

[upper cairn]

oh damn, a reason to go aqua blue lol

[nimble sleet]

now we need vaqua into vblue to give 6 boon choices or something

[high ruin]

you cant even do that </3

well optimism passive pulls are no longer passive

[high ruin]

okay i think its not but damn the change is brutal

[nimble sleet]

i think id love to see a backup beat buff next time

[main oasis]

thrill seeker </3

thrill of having the shittest mission on my screen

[upper cairn]

well now it has a synergy lol

[last cove]

[high ruin]

what is it

and what thrill seeker is

[nimble sleet]

boon choices when u take a red

that plus gourmand

[high ruin]

right

[nimble sleet]

since when was the sky islands timer bonus changed from 4 mins total to 3? 🥲

[cloud marlin]

every camp got changed to that iirc

with this patch

[nimble sleet]

noooooo 😭

that was so qol

[nimble sleet]

also did i miss a patch note that made rainbows rarer? im on challenge 63 and ive only seen a rainbow once

[daring rock]

Ah btw new Gourmand isnt working properly, even with taking Vibrant Blue and getting offered 4 choices you only get 1 rr and with the description (1 rr for every 2 boons offered) I'd assume this is supposed to be 2?

[nimble sleet]

nvm its 2.5 minutes :(

ig to make greens more appealing ?

[cloud marlin]

you dont ever need greens unless you are spaming reds

[nimble sleet]

was more viable to take a non aquad red early on before tho

[cloud marlin]

what does the bonus timer have to do with red beacons though? you dont get that time anyway when you have a red beacon

[nimble sleet]

u got the time back after u were doen w ur reds

[cloud marlin]

2.5 is plenty for that purpose

[nimble sleet]

so i could do like 4 reds in 4-5 mins and get 4 mins back in sky

[cloud marlin]

unless ur runing a guardian paladin and it takes you 3 minutes per challenge

[nimble sleet]

yea its not the end of the world

[cloud marlin]

getting crimson without any oranges is a challenge

got it right after this

@last cove how is ult sac supposed to work? i see that some of my boons got disabled but not all

[last cove]

it should just disable all your boons until completed

[cloud marlin]

yeah it doesnt

[last cove]

hmm.

[high ruin]

I noticed that trials debuff effect have a priority over its completion

Therefore, if you have 19/20 pulls for Warmth Devourer and then complete a challenge, it will delete your challenge and one boon and only after that complete itself
It just ended my run because of it so i should ask if thats what supposed to happen

[high ruin]

I think someone pointed it out before me but Complete Chaos simply disables mission and trial spawns. I was at 2/3 missions and 0/2 trials and they disappeared as soon as i picked up cchaos

edit: I had 5 beacon choices and a loot of rerolls due to backup beat so yeah.
@last cove

[cloud marlin]

lol this is some riot games level spagheti

[high ruin]

two lootruns and both went not good.

[noble peak]

we are aware of this one, but thanks for reporting! it's taking a bit to fix it

[last cove]

Hi, these numbers are not new to this patch

[wild root]

oh... I thought they were

sorry I took it back

[high ruin]

okay, thats just a bit wacky to see if the certain bug was reported or not,
I may suggest adding one more #1019649786799996980 which all be the bug lootrun/endgame activities reports if its gonna make it any easier

(forum bug reports exists but I heavily doubt anyone using or checking those)

[noble peak]

bug reports should become their own system

[noble peak]

there's no harm, don't worry!

[covert mortar]

how did you get the extra lootrun info on your top left?

[cloud marlin]

https://discord.com/channels/394189072635133952/1384307627596447794

[winged barn]

flying chest/challenge post loot chest bomb nerf ( note that im having 268lb and 6lq + loot chest bomb )

[brazen knoll]

GG

[winged barn]

erm is this fr ?!

[high ruin]

https://medal.tv/ru/games/minecraft/clips/kSOWwMGDItS5N6cEQ?invite=cr-MSxseWwsNDA3NjU5NzU3&v=8

this challenge my beloved

[weak quartz]

whee

[main oasis]

Yo developer people lights out is mid make it double the pulls u get

[high ruin]

so one aqua purple gives 18/24 pulls with pphobia

good enough

[main oasis]

no more rainbow tho

no more vibrant stuff too

[high ruin]

wait then its 8 pulls per aqua purple

okay wait i cant count

[main oasis]

yeah imma keep it real 2 pulls per challange without any rainbows or vibrant aint all that

[noble peak]

lights out is such an untrue trial

it needs to be. changed.

[main oasis]

Consider my proposal sir

[last cove]

Lights out will be. KILLED...

[main oasis]

Unlucky

[high ruin]

was found shot dead in brooklyn

[main oasis]

what will it be instead then

[weak quartz]

Lights Out: Gain Blindness 2 for the next 70 challenges

[high ruin]

also disables beacon navigation throughout the intermission.

Reward: ?

[velvet anchor]

Reward: ends your lootrun assuming you did aqua purple all the way to challenge 100 from that point on 🔥

[high ruin]

imagine a trial that grants you aqua effect for every beacon till the end of the run (basically cchaos smh smh)

[weak quartz]

reward: +3 pull

[high ruin]

would take

[main oasis]

Can we get some trials that give more pulls

[high ruin]

what if Treasure Bill would grant 30% of your pulls at the end of your lootrun instead 70% at the moment you complete it

[main oasis]

Treasury Bill is goated

current trials have way to many missions that reward you with rrs and sacrifices

[nimble sleet]

wait guys... its in the name

LIGHJTS OUT beacons no longer show what color they are or what reward they give

[main oasis]

lol

[nimble sleet]

for 10 challenegs u have no idea what ur taking and then u get some reward after idk like 2 rerolls or something

[main oasis]

Sounds funny asf

[high ruin]

thats what I was proposing as soon as the thought of light out needing a change was brought up 😔

I find it funny but its really not about skill expression. For the 10 challenges you just go to random, most easiest beacon available and pray you get beacons you need

[nimble sleet]

shit..

[upper cairn]

tbf there's not that many possible rewards that'd be on par with rerolls and sacrifices

[noble peak]

That's. kinda the point.

[upper cairn]

trials were made solely due to their existence in the first place and to give other missions a chance, so yeah .-.

[noble peak]

End Outcome of a lootrun is like very very largely affected by rerolls and sacrifices

They need to be somewhere in the game. Rerolls used to be on gray beacon. That was awful

They were moved to missions. Missions became a more interesting system and got choked out by the missions that did give rerolls (and sacrifices)

ergo we now have a system that is practically just there to reward you with rerolls and sacrifices

and it shall do no else or we will be in exactly the same position again.

[main oasis]

yeah but thats boring give us stuff to do wacky shit

[last cove]

agree

[main oasis]

tealy agree with me ilysm

[velvet anchor]

imo make every trial grant 1 sacrifice and thats the max, and completing trials themselves are the sacrifices but make the trials from then on just be unique and interesting to try and keep both systems in place. Like all trials give a sacrifice + whatever else the trial has to offer so sacrifices aren't necessarily a "you needa go for thing" but rather a guaranteed thing that players are given during a run (guaranteed 2 sacrifices per run)

i honestly don't think that rerolls are nearly as important as sacrifices during a run (otherwise if you get nothing you just wasted your time)

i love the idea of having like wacky stuff on trials but yeah sacrifices are needed a lot of the time too

[cloud marlin]

which trial converts sacrafices into rerolls?

[main oasis]

all in

[cloud marlin]

yeah my ass took that trial with 500 sacrifices without reading it and now i regret my decisions

was wondering where my sacrifices went

[last cove]

insanity sentence

[cloud marlin]

uh what i meant is i had 500 pulls ready to be sacrificed

[brazen knoll]

So for anyone that wants to mess around with Backup Beat : If you stand to get time passively from white/normal challenges, make sure your timer is below 15 minutes or it won't count the extra time it would otherwise have given you!

(I've made a bug report on this issue)

[last cove]

This shouldve been fixed, are you sure this is still happening?

[brazen knoll]

It doesn't count if the timer is at or above

IE : Entering a challenge while Stasis is active is the best way to check

The time gain isn't counted at all if if was above 15 minutes to begin with

[brazen knoll]

To explain better : I would gain time for a mission requirement only when clearing a challenge and not when I enter it while stasis put me at 15:00 on the dot

@last cove This is what I mean. No reds taken this lootrun, and the passive time gains didn't count for either completing or entering the challenge, only the +4 from the green itself

All that because I had my timer set to above 15:00 (I have mega sac'ed pulls so I'm hoping for Gambling Beast lol)

[brazen knoll]

Good enough ty Gambling Beast

[high ruin]

I dont exactly remember gbeast description, but it is intented that it procs as soon as you choose the trial?

GBeast roughly can tank 3-4 activations before you'll run out of time considering you start from 15 minutes, and the only way to avoid ending lootrun in the next 4 challenges is to get aqua green right away after taking gbeast. Maybe i'm in the wrong but from both times taking gbeast and both times not getting aqua green after it looks quite punishing (especially if its first trial in the run). I'd like to hear some opinions on this

[velvet anchor]

Gambling beast is incredibly punishing ye but I do think it’s meant to be a run ender like that, I don’t think it’s intended to keep going with it

Also I believe you could keep going on it if you have stasis, like it wouldn’t give more rerolls when your timer is at 0 but itll let you continue the run as long as you are running on white challenges and also are quick with beating them

[high ruin]

I do get the point that this trial supposed to be a "run killer", its just that you need to build your way around it in case you want to survive more than 4 challenges (stasis, green stacking, wise beacon spawn management). I'm not saying it as a bad thing, but if you're not prepared to it theres very little you could do as of trials supposed to be skill expressions, but gbeast especially relies on how you build your run BEFORE taking it and not AS SOON as you take it

tho if you could sustain it for decently long amount of time without building your run (again stasis, green stacking yada yada) it will be extremely powerful

[brazen knoll]

There's also something to be said about 3+ rerolls on this trial being really strong. It being stallable in the past could kinda break it

I'm talking 15+ rerolls solo mission easily in the past

[velvet anchor]

I do think it’s pretty harsh in some of its things ye, like previously you had a bit of time to prepare but now it’s straight into it

[weak quartz]

it's intended!

[high ruin]

yeah, thats why I mentioned that in theory this trial STILL can be extremely strong and even with output of 3+ rerolls its still very decent

gbeast especially relies on how you build your run BEFORE taking it and not AS SOON as you take it
this part probably is what made me do this post, of course i was frustrated when it ended my run twice and i couldnt do much about it. but realistically thinking its what this trial supposed to do lmao, just giving you little to no time now to prepare in comparison with gbeast as a mission

[nimble sleet]

well now u know atleast

i think its kind of self explanatory though once you read the description of gambling beast i just view it as like two or maybe three rerolls if i dont have any kind of setup

i dont think anyone expects to be able to take gambling beast and finish the run w it

[main oasis]

Hey devs can you please please please PLEASE remove the shitty redemption and high roller bias it clogs up my mission choices

[main oasis]

Cant even get a 2 mission synergy going in 6 runs chopped ass game

[nimble sleet]

was u ont having runs like this in old mat hoarder

i went a full day not getting mat hoarder

[main oasis]

Mat hoarder was like 33% chance

Lk if i dont get one of the missions im looking for in my first set of 3 missions I just end the run because i cant be bothered with this bullshit

[nimble sleet]

im always doin ts

if i dont get any good option on my 3rd beacon i just end run

[main oasis]

Fuckass game vro 💔

[tacit gyro]

Warmth Devourer should be longer than 1 minute. There are multiple challenges that aren't just "difficult" to complete but genuinely impossible. 3 minutes at the least.

It should be a challenge not a mission forfeit

[winged barn]

erm i think u mean side hustle ?

also 3mins is too much

[tacit gyro]

I might be misremembering the name but you know which trial I'm talking about

[winged barn]

Yeah that’s side hustle

[tacit gyro]

Ok thanks

[last cove]

3 minutes? that would be insane

maybe we can increase it a tad, but really not much

[winged barn]

^

[tacit gyro]

Maybe 2 ig but any challenge with waves is basically impossible because of the forced timer. Its a shame that the strategy/counterplay is to start an unplayable challenge and then immediately kill yourself so that you only forfeit one challenge instead of forfeiting the entire lootrun

I got 4 defend challenges and I had to do that ^

[last cove]

the strategy/counterplay would be to choose challenges you can complete in under a minute

Defend challenges take 35s?

[tacit gyro]

The waves only progress after you kill every last mob. Which is kinda annoying sometimes when they always move around. If it was a set timer per wave instead of waiting for you to be done, it would solve the problem too

[gleaming temple]

first time doing the new lootruns and i feel like crimson beacons are a bit too rare

and half of the f2p rerolls are now being locked behind tokens if u cant get crimson beacons is crazy but thats a different topic ig

[cloud marlin]

Thats why the idea is to not pick those challenges during side hustle

[tacit gyro]

Should be difficult. Not impossible.

[cloud marlin]

Tbf most slay challenges are doable but there are a few exceptions

[nimble sleet]

only 3 beacon choices is prolly why

[gleaming temple]

Maybe. I did have 4 choices at times. But not getting one in 27 challenges still seems too big. Or I'm just very very unlucky and it's actually not that rare

[cloud marlin]

nah ive gone to challenge 50 before a single crimson all because of no oranges at the time

it just be rare like that

[weak quartz]

Three minutes, Jeremy? Three? That's insane.

[tacit gyro]

Ok fine 2mins lmao

[nimble sleet]

1.5 mins 🙏or it gives like 5-10s when u open a chest

i just don’t really like how u kinda have to do it during whites

esp when reds take priority over white beacons lol

also does anyone else find like gourmand optimism runs super boring or is it just me

[cloud marlin]

i havent managed to score any optimism runs but yeah i cant imagine them being fun

[gleaming temple]

also i want to say that, when i reached 20 challenges, i expected to get a crimson beacon the moment i hit the requirement, similar to how gray beacons work. i feel like casual runs are sort of dead now

[nimble sleet]

i dont agree

i personally try for like agood run every day and if i dont get it i just end the run and use my daily rerolls or i can start my run and either finish it in 1-2h or finish it the next day and im fine w that

i think "dead" is an overstatement at the very least

what would u constitute as a casual run though? like a 20 minute run? or

[gleaming temple]

yeah i guess it may be an overstatement, its just not easy to hold on to your sacrifices for future runs unless you get crimson beacons. well, not easy compared to how it was at least

[gleaming temple]

by casual, i meant a run around 20-30 challenges with not needing much reliance on rng i guess. it may still take a while, but its not mind nubbing compared to doing 60+ challenges imo

[nimble sleet]

yeah i can understand that

idrk how that could be fixed i just know it was necessary that it wasnt left in the same state as before trials (sac stacking)

[nimble sleet]

i also think its kind of fair since pulls are so easy to get now

like optimism gourmand is just gonna farm u pulls and its only two missions

[gleaming temple]

i didnt lootrun enough to realize it was op, i guess it makes sense why they had to move them to trials

being able to get at least 1 sacrifice per run would be really nice and wouldnt make you feel like the last hour of grinding was a waste since the effort isnt just gone, which is why i hoped that crimson beacons would be as common as gray beacons after getting to 20 challenges

[nimble sleet]

i hear where ur coming from but like 1 sac guaranteed per run is also just broken

theres a reason redemption and high roller have boosted odds in mission choices though

optimism + gourmand is kind of casual friendly like u dont have to do 100 challenges with it exactly just until the point where not having a boon generator is just frying ur run

its super good since its only 2 missions so space for like redemption/high roller/boon generator etc and then rerolls for crimsons

[gleaming temple]

having to rely on rng is a bit meh but it does sound fun

(im not saying having to rely on rng is bad btw, u need rng for content otherwise its gonna be stale)

ill try it out on my next lr, it sounds very interesting

[nimble sleet]

sure gl

theres probably some more mission cobmos that r more casual friendly u just have to go look for them

[gleaming temple]

i was gonna say that mission combos require you to be lucky, but seems like some missions can synergize with multiple missions

[nimble sleet]

yeah i mean theres always gonna be some kind of combo u can do

[summer whale]

After doing a handful of runs I can say one thing for sure, Side Hustle sucks ass, 1 minute is nothing, I hope u realize not everyone uses idol/warp etc, let alone its nearly impossible to finish the challs that quick if you do not have 200 boons on you. Overall its 1:30H now for like 40-50 challenges for me, which is disappointing, making it harder =/= making it more fun, i cant even imagine how people with starter builds are supposed to deal with all this stuff

[nimble sleet]

question what build do you use to do 40-50challenges in 1.5h
is it the mobility problems of the class? is it taking a long time to actually finish the challenge?

[summer whale]

hero

and no not a mobility problem for me, i offhand idol

but i believe that one minute restriction might be a pain for anyone who doesnt, especially in areas like SE or SI

[nimble sleet]

yeah i agree with u on that one im just wondering whats causing u to have such slow runs

[summer whale]

idk, my dps isnt that great, but it just takes too long to do challs now, much longer than pre update

which imo isnt "fun" part exactly

[nimble sleet]

i lowk agree

or like boons dont hit the same anymore

it might just have been bad rng on my last run tho im not gonna get ahead of myself

[last cove]

could you send your build?

[summer whale]

hmm prolly, long runs arent a thing for me anymore

[nimble sleet]

what do u mean? as in u cant get to the end of the run or u dont see it as beneficial to do a long run over a short run

[nimble sleet]

also i do think that someone with a starter build shouldnt be able to have the same performance in lrs as someone with a meta/good build ofc since like whats there to do with your money if u can do the same stuff as someone who has money if u understand
its totally possible that someone with a starter build can get to 100 challenges though with the right setup and rng, and u dont need to do 100 challenges to have a good run exactly

[summer whale]

yea, i use the basic LR hero with cheap spellcost and idol offhand. i tried running timerift instead of CoS , its fairly more damage but harder sustain, which doesnt affect the outcome way too much in the end https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CK0yt0W2Om3X7m058sH15OyGh6q4O4Gy0etV-wOo1j0

Wynnbuilder build:
Keratoconus
Conduit of Spirit
Pain Cycle
Capricorn
Moon Pool Circlet
Obstinance
Prowess
Renda Langit
Hero []

[winged barn]

is that... warp build ?

why pain cycle ?

[summer whale]

most of the time physically can not, even if i get cleansing ritual, i just cant complete challenges at one point due to me being too weak/mobs being too strong, or it takes 5min+ which is just .. yk not even bothering to proceed

[winged barn]

how many boons u have ?

[nimble sleet]

do u take boon generators in these challenges too? or like just blues

[summer whale]

i always do f i get the rng right lol, without boon gens there is for sure no sense to try and its best to kill the run

[summer whale]

~same dps as sagit after nerf, and a bit more ehp

[nimble sleet]

yeah i feel that

i was on a jtrick ischeme mat run and i ran out of time because i took so damn long clearin the challenges ill admit i wasnt playing the absolute best tho

[summer whale]

idk its just overall harder, and not really, better i guess? you tryhard more for the same rewards as before (obviously still rng) , thats what i feel at least, after like 10 runs. but that one minute needs to be killed for sure

cuz your only guarantee is basically the def challenge

[nimble sleet]

i lowk think its kind of fine i just hate the threat of the timer, that might just be me though

like it sucks taking a green without an aqua though and because of the stupid beacon cycle system if ur stuck on an aqua red cycle u cant get aqua green lol

time from jest trick was not helping all in my earlier run and w whites only giving 2.5min now instead of 3-4 its a bit frustrating sometimes

[summer whale]

i crashed mid reward chest rolling xDD lol thats surely a sign, no runs anymore. btw would be nice if that would be possible to prevent somehow, but i dont even have any idea on how to do that

[summer whale]

yeah well thats an old thing, its annoying but didnt happen to me that often to be bothered by it

[nimble sleet]

yeah might have just been a one time thing

more amplified though now that challenges take longer for most people

[summer whale]

they really do, some of ppl ik said the same thing, they're not that down to run anymore :/ if that was the idea its fine, there are still other money sources gladly

[nimble sleet]

i mean shit im kind of happy its more difficult since now the rewards feel more meaningful but i think a few things can be improved a bit of course

[last cove]

making it harder was kinda part of the idea

i dont think thats really a bad thing, for something to be rewarding i think it should have a matching difficulty

[summer whale]

i agree, making it difficult isnt a bad idea, but like its hard not to cross the line when its plain boring difficulty at which you dont even bother trying

[last cove]

Is Side Hustle like that?

[summer whale]

i think it also comes with overall nerfs of builds, so the difficulty span hits in even more

[summer whale]

seemed to me like that, i think ive managed to do it once, only in Molten heights cause i kinda know where all the chests are. i would never take it in any other camp

[nimble sleet]

did u have a white on? ive always avoided side hustle but is the only way to get time from white/greens/missions ?

[summer whale]

yes, always at least +20

[nimble sleet]

🥲

maybe one day if i ever get it during my whites

[summer whale]

id guess im facing skill issues but what skill is it really if i just spam upperscream xd and i dont know any other build that would do better. probably warp, but im not investing in that just to be able to run past 40chall xD

[nimble sleet]

yeah idk i just mainhand idol or warp

worth investment to buy a warp tho fs

[summer whale]

if there are better warrior builds than mine for lootruns, id gladly switch, but i have no idea. its a lootrun class only so i could go whatever is better

[nimble sleet]

theres probably something idk would help though

could also try to cook up some better mission combos to help u through the 100 challenges w boon generators n shit

[summer whale]

yeah well before it was easily doable with cleansing ritual + equi

but u still can get oneshot after like chall 80, now i dont think ill make it past that

and again time is the problem, that will probably end up being 2.5-3h for me xD not sure if thats normal

[nimble sleet]

ts like pretty bad idk especially if ur using idol offhand

[summer whale]

hmm just for experimental purposes, ive done an SE run (i want to clarify right away i genuinely hated SE lootrun camp even before update, it seemed barely worth its time to me unless all other 4 pools are really terrible), err i havent got the Side hustle but im sure it'd be bad, will check that later. however, ultimate sacrifice after chall 30-35 is literally unplayable, i couldnt even finish it, i got shot in every single challenge, i even managed to somehow die in the statues cave (that was bad luck but still, that have never happen before even when i was overcursed). i guess the only build you can play there (and you shouldn't really) is warp? warrior's warscream is its own death, mobs pulled = you're dead. im not even gonna talk about not everyone having warp or hero, let alone a mythic, its just a pointless camp and im not really sure why it exists in the state its in. With all this difficulty span maybe its worth looking into making the mobs WEAKER? they're needlessly strong from what i'm seeing here, i wasnt having like that many curses, i took a few aquad purples thats it. I've had a good percentage on weaken enemy boon right before ult sac, and it was somewhat doable. if thats the direction lootruns are taking, that is incredibly sad, while im sure it should be worth doing both raids and lootruns, the raids seem to be much more worth it now. also, just curious, what are ppl running besides warp and hero and how's its going in SE particularly? how and most importantly why do you even run there?

[last cove]

how many curses did you have vs how many boons?

[forest oracle]

me when singu morph lootrun

[summer whale]

ive taken like 5 vibrant aqua'd purples, no dark grey

and boons 0 due to ult sac lol. thats the point its impossible to play that trial in a camp with such strong mobs

well not impossible, for some people im sure it is, but generally it doesnt look so

[summer whale]

not a feedback, but another SE run just fyi 🙂 this was my last one, ping me pls when ts is somewhat adequately balanced

[last cove]

could you send your build here?

[summer whale]

i did before, one sec leme find it here

[nimble sleet]

jesus christ

[last cove]

oh here

[summer whale]

its not the best but not the worst also so i dont think it should be this much of a struggle

[nimble sleet]

how fast were ur runs before all the boon changes maybe like pre trial update to compare? of course kind of hard to say since hero was better then too but

[summer whale]

yeah overall its a bit nerfed, but not to a critical point of where its just unusable xD uhh defo shorter than this, i think i usually did ~45-55 challs per hour depending on the rng

[last cove]

idk what to tell you, ill take a look at SE lootrun mob stats but iirc they arent all that spectacular. Are there any challenges/specific mobs that are giving you the most trouble?

[nimble sleet]

is this in se?

[summer whale]

oh sure, id defo point out a few, is there a list of the names somewhere cause im not really paying attention to what they are called , my bad

[summer whale]

yea, just was curious how is it now , as it was bad for me before as well

[nimble sleet]

im sure destroy objectives since they suck at higher challenges compared to arca and like reject grove and graveyard of the thousand (but those r to be expected) doubt the mob stats are the issue here

[last cove]

https://wynncraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Silent_Expanse_Expedition

[nimble sleet]

yeah im sure theres something wrong like i dont think before triasl wera dded that 45-55 challenges should take an hour esp in se

[summer whale]

thanks will try to provide some details

[summer whale]

thats with a good boon/mission setup, boonless its always much worse

[nimble sleet]

try like a mainhand idol build or some other warrior build and see if it helps at all but it also feels like ur mobility between challenges is also contributing to the long time its taking u (doesnt have to do with the boon stuff but still just a personal tip)

[nimble sleet]

if u were to record some gameplay too and post it here it would be easier to help too if u want

[summer whale]

ok so as a scenario i consider a medium amount of curses/boons in the run as a warrior with an idk, normal build i guess, not best not worst, think that what hero is rn. and will point out the challs i had problems with in such run at challenge 30+

1. Reject Grove - fr that is tougher than it should be, im not even sure why, all im feeling is that the mobs are too strong at that point, also as a class problem, pulling them towards myself using warscream can mean an easy death in most of cases, the dernic sirens are just weird, i do not see particles of their attacks or anything, i just get shot and its -50% hp usually, and its hard to understand how to dodge besides just running around lol. if im not havin enough intox from previous wave to heal, im gone, in normal runs i do not leave corrupted before the challenge is done, here it doesnt work :D. Ultimate sacrifice - 100% death, tried a few times
2. Spire of Eyes - this one is bad for warrior but id imagine its good for mage or archer, the layout of the challenge wont let you avoid getting hit at any point, the destroy obj being on top of that hill also makes me climb up to actually damage it and mobs being pulled on top are melting my health bar in a matter of seconds, also not doable in under 1 min or ultimate sacrifice from what i imagine.
3. The Place Coalesced - this cave is also tough cause the boss, giant and mobs around seem to deal too much damage, the blocks exploding, the boss multihit, etc, just too many things after my ass, i have to stay somewhat close to the cave boss to deal dmg and his ranged multihit is lethal in my scenario, getting close to the toxic giant is also death most of the time, killing it from afar takes ages, i can cheese this cave if im lucky enough with healing timing, but usually its a bad winrate % lol

[summer whale]

4. Sludge Locus - this is just weird and i guess i was really unlucky, but a few times the boss spawned literally where i was passing and i instantly died. his charge is also lethal most of the time, the layout barely lets you dodge it, but yeah its defo doable. just somewhat random. it being a 1 wave boss challenge is actually ok, so i prob shouldnt count this in and blame it on the bad luck, the only difference is i wasnt really getting one shot by him before, yeah huge dmg and really low hp if the charge hits you, but not really death

5. Collapsed Passage - mobs seem to have too high damage, really more than needed, you can cheese it a bit if you keep circling around the stairway and thats how i was getting out, if i stay somewhere in the middle or corners of the arena its game over most of the time

6. False Respite - the exemplar (boss) is a mess, the multihit is crazy, very high HP and DPS, the only way for me to complete it at that phase is hiding behind a spike or whatever that small thing near the spot is, and damaging him thru the wall. but i wasnt really trying to cheese challenges rather than actually completing them to see whats happening. if im running around fighting - im dead, for sure

[summer whale]

nah not really having mobility issues, idol does its job here lol, i do ~20 charges - uppercut combo all the time and can fly nonstop, the challs just consume too much time especially if i cant actually stand it and need to cheese somehow

but yea i have a feeling SE is much easier for mage, but cant really test it cause my mages are LB and raid arcanist builds, both useless in lr's

and also, i really understand its most likely skill issue, but i just also heard too many complaints from friends and acquaintances about the SE camp particularly, so thought maybe id bring up some issues me and the others face in it

[nimble sleet]

yeah i might just be out of touch since im a sweat its prolly not mobility issues, just wanted to check though

se is notoriously difficult and on warp u just get onetapped alot but clearing challenges is generally easier for me on warp in se atleast

even if it is a slight skill issue i dont think it should be that hard to the point where alot of people get frustrated

boon discussion thread will hopefully help out though since i think thats kind of the main cause of ur problems, its in a tough spot yk

[summer whale]

thats my point yea, its WAY too hard. also the class issue, or rather, archetype issue as fallen, to do my best dmg i gotta stay at 50%+ corrupted, there are very few challenges when i can allow myself to do that, cause its way too dangerous and most of the time its death, so im not usually going that low

[nimble sleet]

yeah idk i cant really comment on fallen too much since when i tried to lr with it i also just could not play on low hp all the time, i know alot of ppl lootrun with it but i wouldnt recommend it to anyone and instead just mainhand idol

[last cove]

i think there is maybe a disconnect between CT and players with expected difficulty, I see the majority of runs in other challenges where waves get cleared within a split second, and then when they try SE this doesnt happen and they die

[nimble sleet]

i definitely would recommend trying a different build (palamonk idol is kind of the go-to) and see if that helps clearing challenges esp with survivability

[last cove]

I think maybe other camps are quite a bit too easy, and SE maybe slightly too hard, and then this manifests in people seeing SE as way too hard

[summer whale]

i could agree on that pre-update, MH, SI were actually easy if you have a right boon setup, now with the updated difficulty they do not need to be even harder imo.. for avg players it will be very sad. but SE has to be looked into , imo

[nimble sleet]

theres that too lol i cant comment for the casual playerbase who would fit into that description but personally as someone who mains se u kind of get used to what challenges and attacks u have to look out for and how u should move to dodge attacks whatever

like i personally think se is a good camp but from all the feedback ive seen im always in the minority on that

[last cove]

yeah and I think this is cool, it has expectations for the player that arent there in other camps

i will now be buffing all other camp mobs by 200%

[nimble sleet]

id rather see se be more rewarding than having it be nerfed since its kind of a cool gimmick to have one camp thats kind of high risk high reward in a sense

[summer whale]

i made most of my networth from those two camps cause it didnt take a lot of effort tbh, ofc there were bad runs, but most of the time its ok or great. now its, well, it is harder, as a frequent Molten/Sky runner, i can assure you its not that easy anymore, im getting used to it and now i have to get better at even my preferred camps 😄 so pls dont buff those lol, we still wanna run sometimes and not abandon that activity forever

[nimble sleet]

i think another 50% boon scaling nerf is needed

[nimble sleet]

yeah those are like the most popularcamps too

and i think maybe just maybe tealy was joking when he said he wanted to buff camp mobs by 200% im just speculating here though

[summer whale]

welp they are not money printing machines anymore 😩

[last cove]

i was

[summer whale]

so that goal was achieved successfully

[nimble sleet]

theres still some good strats that can be cooked up without having to go to challenge 100

[summer whale]

yea i imagine. i just mean u cant spam short runs anymore with tons of sacs, that was my way lol

well not short, 42 default runs

[nimble sleet]

it feels like people are tryingto force 100 challenge runs instead of like maybe adjusting to runs being harder and trying to find strategies that build upon that

[summer whale]

i hate 100chall runs tbh, ive barely done them before, it just gets boring lol

[nimble sleet]

i think they're fun with the right setup

[summer whale]

plus its proven being not efficient before. now its much more efficient but also the difficulty is too high, so im conflicted xd

[nimble sleet]

if they're boring to u thats completely fine since theres definitely a playstyle that would allow u to not have to do 100 challenge runs thanks to the variety of mission combos and the addition of trials and whatnot

[summer whale]

yeah ik, i mean im forced to go further if i want better rewards, but the difficulty i face there is frustrating to me rn. it was easy before, now its very hard, and i understand its veeeeeery complicated to find the middle of those two worlds for it to be ok for everyone, if not impossible, that requires a ton of balancing and testing, and afaik LR team actually tries to implement changes all the time, its the only reason i decided to test all that and tell how it goes and feels

[nimble sleet]

if it takes so long to finish the run though it might just be more efficient at some point to just go next though

as much as i do think boons are in a tough spot and getting to 100 challenges is hard it also feels like not alot of people are adapting to that and are expecting to get to 100 challenges free, which id still hope to be difficult to a certain extent since like if multiple two mission combo being able to get to 100challenges consistently with trialsbeing the source of sacs and rerolls it could be kinda broken for pulls

[summer whale]

they're all like that, i mean SE, i did them for testing purposes, im defo not running SE in its current state for actual rewards xD i'll do some more testing tho to exclude the probability of bad luck, but not today, i wasn't feeling that fked for a long time 🤣

[nimble sleet]

yeah though like who knows im sure they're cooking up something rn to make the playerbase happy

[summer whale]

i never went to 100 boonless, thats just insanity even pre-update. 100 chall only if equilibrium hits in, otherwise just no. not actually equi wont help you much either

[nimble sleet]

try a diff build and let me know how it goes that would be awesome to see the difference

[nimble sleet]

boonless is impossible but like relying on only blue beacons yk

if it were possible to only rely on blue beacons to get to 100 challenges consistently then gourmand optimism would just be soo broken lmao

theres so many filler mission slots too, alot of which just help u through the run that r more accessible now due to the addition of trials (which is awesome btw)

[summer whale]

that was my first impression as well, but we all know rng is cruel, and its just a higher chance rn to get a bad run cause of more available probabilities, while chances for a good run is also higher but you gotta be more lucky

[nimble sleet]

everything in lring is gonna be rng at the end of the day bro i think thats in a good spot rn

[summer whale]

obv its a gamble, i understand that, thats the point of it kinda, just the process being that frustratingly hard isnt really fun, that was my initial point, but i do not mind adapting and changing stuff if its worth it, and well i kinda want to be sure its worth it first yk 😄

[cloud marlin]

5 choices:
challenge 20 crimson offered i skip to try to aqua boost
challenge 25 (still no crimson since challenge 20 skip) got orange so now im at 6 choices
6 choices:
challenge 27 finaly a crimson (scared shitless to skip it in order to attempt to aqua boost it)
rly goes to show how miserable it is if you dont get multiple +30 oranges

[low pagoda]

funny thing is the reason why there was not that many longer run lootrun mechanics originally (like trials even though they're not super lategame) is because at the beginning salted didnt think anyone would ever get to challenge 100

The scaling is meant to kill you eventually and have you reach an impass

its always been a battle of trying to "keep up with the scaling" rather than "beat the scaling"

[upper cairn]

remove boons

[unreal knot]

I feel that the design of some crimson beacons is just horrible. Mainly

1. Side Hustle feels unbeatable without Stasis mission since some beacon rng makes it basically impossible to run from the respawn point to the mission. I'm pretty sure each non-red beacon challenge awards 2.5 minutes in total for a reason as that is the proper time needed to reach a challenge (mostly this part imo) and complete it, so I don't understand why Side Hustle limits the time to only 1 mins.
2. Gambling Beast is basically a trial that just kills your lootrun (I do not understand why this got moved to trials).
   Then, when you have to pick between Side Hustle and Gambling Beast then the run is pretty much over...

[cloud marlin]

gamba beast is good as long as you get it as your second trial

[nimble sleet]

gambling bewast was moved to a trial because trials are the main sources of rerolls and sacs now

if u only have 2 crimson beacon choices thats a skill issue u should just be prepared to face that risk

gambling beast is not horrible at all lol it can be really good with proper setup, side hustle is an entirely different story though and alot of people have criticized it

[nimble sleet]

that makes alot of sense

and since people are now used to 100 challenge runs its kind of hard to go back to what its actually supposed to be i guess lol

or idk if thats the direction that u guys are trying to take right now

[noble peak]

i am not super happy with gambling beast but it's either gambling beast as a trial or no gambling beast at all

because it cannot in good conscience be a mission

[nimble sleet]

i dont really hate it

[low pagoda]

nah, not necessarily the direction we're taking. It was just a fun side note

[last cove]

what build are you using? i used a morrowind arcanist build in testing and could traverse across every camp in <1m

[weak quartz]

name any two challenges from any camp and i will traverse between them in under a minute

[compact harness]

the shaman, archer or assassin without 3 offhands/mythics in question

what happened to considering buffing the time 😭

[weak quartz]

sure, i'll do it on one of those classes with a single nonmythic weapon

[compact harness]

shackles to warehouse have fun (except you wont be going to warehouse to begin with because its ass)

[weak quartz]

lol true that

warehouse really sucks imho

[last cove]

its not that bad....................

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[cloud marlin]

warehouse is pis easy on warp 🙂

[nimble sleet]

takes over a minute for the avg person tho

when i came back to the game andddid my first cork lr warehouse took me like 3 min im not lying

[cloud marlin]

just be better than the average person

[nimble sleet]

im washed up

only challenge i can do is wybel satellite

[upper cairn]

I like warehouse cause it has a lot of chests for chest-related objectives/missions

[weak quartz]

25 seconds

on morph-fractal shaman

[compact harness]

amazing

now envision yourself as a player that joined wynncraft 3 weeks ago and is getting paranoid over watching the red numbers flash on the scoreboard because his 40 minute run might or might not be completely wasted

[upper cairn]

they'll learn

[nimble sleet]

i think the dumbest thing about side hustle to me is that its only viable during a white

[weak quartz]

ye that does kinda suck

[nimble sleet]

and like its even worse since reds override whites so even if u did take a white

[weak quartz]

we're looking into that though ;) no promises

[nimble sleet]

then the red will just prioritize over that

[upper cairn]

max 30s, opening a chest resets the timer fr

[nimble sleet]

are u guys removing whites ? just speculation on my part though.. 🧐

[weak quartz]

even if I say I can't use /kill to teleport it takes me like 40 seconds

[cloud marlin]

this just isnt an argument

just learn the game

[last cove]

legit ^ it sounds harsh but these are difficult trials, if you're new to the game or dont know what you're doing then i think it should be expected that these could kill you

another critiscism we heard about Side Hustle is that its too harsh on players who dont know where a lot of chests are compared to people who have memorized them

with context i hope i dont have to explain why we thought this was kind of a silly criticism

[cloud marlin]

my only request for side hustle is to buff the rewards

its a difficult trial that forces u to be selective of ur challenges all for 2 rrs

[unreal knot]

I usually lootrun with freedom since I feel that boons are better with rainbow builds. For me its certainly doable to just run from respawn to the challenges but I find it difficult if I am trying to also reach the chests in the middle to complete the trail before reaching the challenge since it stretches the distance.
Whats worse is sometimes the game also sometimes doesn't register that you've picked a challenge, e.g. at latern keeper's abode I jump in and the circle doesn't register that I've picked this challenge or when you have speed and you just bypass the circle e.g. caged creatures and also when you bounce in the gwanari

[unreal knot]

there's also eyeball gaunlet (enter rooms and wait for wall break animation), haze cave (slow mob spawn), exhiled garden (view is blocked so take longer to find mob), grove (larger mob spawn area and potentially get hit by longleg gripper), false respite (takes 1 mob waves first and then the target mob's ability teleports also thus wasting time, though sure I do believe it is more doable than the above)

sure, I definitely accept that most of these challenges are possible to be done within 1 min if you have good boons and stuff, but in an average run I usually take more than 1 minute to complete these challenges.

[high ruin]

@last cove @weak quartz
i think this is not something that is supposed to happen
https://medal.tv/ru/games/minecraft/clips/kXbSlHKbjV_ptP4jh?invite=cr-MSxxNjAsNDA3NjU5NzU3&v=8

[last cove]

weird

[high ruin]

I think it would have ended my run even if i didnt had hubris
--because it killed me 170 times in a moment, basically burning an hour from my timer

[wild root]

please up the timer of Side Hustle 🙏