Official Fallen feedback thread for Wardrobe Wonders update

[wary lichen]

still competitive to an extent because of leaderboards and the trademarket but sometimes the nerfs are beyond overkill

[rich night]

The bug is also only on a T2/T3 mythic aspect, no??

Yeah, supposed to be high risk high reward but ur getting no reward

[random plume]

High risk, high pain, no enjoyement, no reward - Current state of the fallen

[wicked acorn]

this low key how i’m feeling

what is even the point of me playing a burst class and then going back in to tickle the enemies while dodging point blank attacks

[rich night]

Agree that for the cost it is bloodlust is meh, its just a stone in the way for the 0.25% node

[wary lichen]

It seems we'll be able to avoid lifesteal entirely in the next iteration from this message but no clue on what the tradeoff will be

[random plume]

If its DPS then thats not a viable option.

[wary lichen]

they said more difficulty but can't really imagine what'd be more difficult than flopping around trying to melee any of the 3 raid bosses or finding a trash mob in clear rooms

[rich night]

Yeah, i rlly dont understand CT's vision on this

[wicked acorn]

i definitely do, fallens current iteration basically is unkillable if you play it correctly

[rich night]

The other option being hp pots 🥀 , the aspect is only 5% fuck is that dawg

[wicked acorn]

the fact you get an on demand 100% heal is incredibly powerful

[versed orbit]

Like endgame fallen I understand u want more difficulty but like

[random plume]

The healing's speed needs nerf, but not its amount tbf

[rich night]

I understand that part, i meant the vision of changing it to ls and having basically no reward for what ur doing

[wicked acorn]

to be fair the reward is actually higher if the aspect didn’t subtract damage

[wary lichen]

I don't think the aspect will be required to full heal if there's an option to full heal no lifesteal, that'd be really unfair

[versed orbit]

midgame I constantly was at like 5% hp while corrupted, it really doesnt get more difficult than that

[random plume]

I think they might reduce the scaling or increase CD so you need to hit a lot more often or build better sustain to barely gain 100%

[versed orbit]

Thats what skill is. Every class is unkillable if u play it correctly

[wicked acorn]

all around it’s a fallen damage buff when you consider we’re going from 23->38% bpact bonus

[versed orbit]

and if you dont u die

[rich night]

Idk, i hope they show on the beta the "updated" version before bringing it to live, thats all i hope for

[wicked acorn]

i mean kind of but not really

[wary lichen]

if beta gets a hotfix we get it if not i guess we just have to see it through on live

[rich night]

Kinda stupid 🥀

[raven eagle]

I agree, but I think a better outcome would've been to make it so u didn't get the insta heal but regen hp over the fallen cd so u could atleast be able to play the class on it's own

[random plume]

Maybe they just want to make a small culling in % of Fallens in pfinder

[rich night]

They change to 15%

[wary lichen]

i mean idk im hopeful beta gets a hotfix because of the like 15 things getting changed but they weren't certain when answering ts earlier

[rich night]

Do they release statistics? Of like most played archtypes etc

[random plume]

Someone did crowdsourcing on that I think

[versed orbit]

ye but u only use it when you're about to kick the bucket dont ya?

well, usually that is the case

[wary lichen]

You're fully in control of that

[wicked acorn]

if you’re smart about it you can react to things

[raven eagle]

you cannot play morph fallen anymore btw

[random plume]

Oh no, poor morphs

[raven eagle]

Panda do you have any suggestions on how to make fallen playable btw?

[wicked acorn]

yeah play palafallen

[random plume]

Embrace Bigmac

[raven eagle]

no like any change suggestions you'd give

[wicked acorn]

🔥🔥

[random plume]

Why cant we just get that healing over 3-5s and call it a day. And if you want it to be more skillful add 0.5s delay before healing so that incomming slap will punish you regardless of your "panic button"

[wicked acorn]

yes change the tree into palafallen and go rally

[raven eagle]

like stuff you'd want changed and how you'd want them changed

[versed orbit]

Id rather kms
I already play lb, I dont want another tank class

[raven eagle]

https://tenor.com/view/silly-gif-3397568161154480277

[rich night]

Get AntiSkill in ct 🥀

[wicked acorn]

i’m not saying go tank bro i’m just sayin go down the paladin tree

[rich night]

Rally on 3s cd now, no?

[wicked acorn]

consecration ssurge is a 675% ratio 💔 it’s literally so fucking good

x 1.65 from enraging blow

[raven eagle]

can u dm me a tree (or send it here) I wanna try it out

[versed orbit]

I dont get to use some fallen abilities then, which sucks

[wicked acorn]

yeah which one is important 😭😭

[random plume]

Making it work like a potion would make making sustain builds give you more HP/s, while still making low sustain / bursty gameplay possible

[wicked acorn]

corrupt and bpact is all you need

[raven eagle]

@wicked acorn

[wicked acorn]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CI000000000000000000000W9F40800etsUlfLJ85

[raven eagle]

ty

[versed orbit]

Bloodlust my beloved <3
I am a nuke, dont stand near me

[raven eagle]

is ur cycle bash cut or upper scream?

[wicked acorn]

it has air shout 😭😭 why would you bash

it’s just scream scream upper

[raven eagle]

idk bro big mac has ruined my view on palafallen 😭

[versed orbit]

WHAT IS THAT ABOMINATION

[wicked acorn]

big mac is more paladin than palafallen you get like bpact and that’s about it

[versed orbit]

This isnt pala fallen its insanity incarnate

[random plume]

Slap generalist and runn it that way

[wicked acorn]

this literally the most basic palafallen tree to exist

[versed orbit]

Why would anyone run pala fallen at that point, that aint fallen

[raven eagle]

fallen surge

[versed orbit]

I dont understand some people

[raven eagle]

I feel like the dmg for that is actually good

[wicked acorn]

slap the biggest spell multiplier you can with the biggest overall multiplier

wow! it does damage

[raven eagle]

yeahhh this seems rlly good

[wicked acorn]

also cleansing breeze

[raven eagle]

imma try this, finally have something for hero ☺️

[wicked acorn]

idk i was able to get like 340k peaks (with -20% overall damage bug

[raven eagle]

also im getting rid of all eotb builds outisde bbath for guide its just not worth it anymore

[wicked acorn]

it sounds bad but you actually like sustain max damage for the entirety of being above 50% corrupt

[raven eagle]

yeahhhh this looks good

[wicked acorn]

cuz it doesn’t ramp the same way as overwhelming rage

[random plume]

For generalist users how much would trading off comet for generalist change the outcome?

[versed orbit]

that aint V1 Wynncraft I know and love </3
Oh well, hopefully they fix fallen. I want my "Blood is fuel. Raid is full" gameplay

[raven eagle]

and u get sparkling from bpact too right?

[wicked acorn]

palafallen been good

sparkling is healing

[raven eagle]

oh

[wicked acorn]

not off damage taken

[raven eagle]

u get it from exhil + intox tho right

[wicked acorn]

it’s useless 😭

[random plume]

Does bpact trigger rejuvenating skin?

[wicked acorn]

you just take it to get the abomination that is consecration

[wicked acorn]

yea but like ur corrupted 😭

[raven eagle]

extra healing from intox trust

[random plume]

Yeah but if I leave corrutp will it be active off recent damage taken/

[wicked acorn]

perhaps

you would have to figure out a way to path back to comet

not enough ssurge gen without it

[raven eagle]

wait panda this dont have tempest

[wicked acorn]

and you likely won’t be able to paladin mythic + fabled bpact aspect

[wicked acorn]

yeah but its upper has a 675% spell multiplier slapped on for fun

[random plume]

10s fallen cd 💀

[wicked acorn]

u gonna need it healing with catamaran

[raven eagle]

ok hm lemme try this

[wicked acorn]

😭😭😭😭😭

[deep pagoda]

wait this tree is actually a banger wtf

[wicked acorn]

it makes high ET low FA actually not complete shit since you can greed so much ehp

idk i been telling people paladin etw is broken but they don’t believe me 💔

[wicked acorn]

i mean it plays like exactly the same

you just get even more safety from mantles

[wicked acorn]

build conduit renda idk i just went beast rings since idgaf but i’m sure photophobic x2 + 1 naval + 3 illusory idol could work

didn’t bother with crafts

[raven eagle]

yeah I uh tested with the crafted build in the guide (the sustain one)

230 - 250k dmg (with bugged bpact tho)

[wicked acorn]

you can’t go cardiac arrest

idk i was getting way more than 250k

check if ur dodge is working

[raven eagle]

im not running cardiac arrest im getting conduit, and yeah dodge is working, come on hero beta rn im my housing

[wicked acorn]

if not you need to /class

[abstract tiger]

I average ~325kish without the new aspects on hero

[wicked acorn]

i can’t i am unable to attend to my computer

[raven eagle]

dodge is active yeah

[random plume]

Is it just me or I cant access any skins on beta

[wicked acorn]

do you have surge generation aspect

and bpact aspect

tbf holy power only full sustains when you have maxed surge expect

[raven eagle]

I dont have bpact aspect but I do have max surge aspect

ah shit I cant upload footage no nitro

Panda u up for vc?

[wicked acorn]

no i am about to leave my house

[raven eagle]

alr

[wicked acorn]

upload to like streamable or something idk

[raven eagle]

ehhhh too much work I'll wait for the dmg bug to get fixed first and test again

[raven eagle]

https://youtu.be/GqGdSjTaE0g

[random plume]

That damage

The only damage that fallen deals is the emotional one, to the user.

[random plume]

Blood Pact now boosts the damage of all abilities that are activated by a spell (for example Bloodlust from War Scream)

So Bpact now boosts blust but only if its activated via shift+wscream?

[rich night]

Lmao, more pala than fallen

Atp to play fallen on beta just /char and go assassin instead 🥀

[random plume]

In current state Shade feels very appealing.

[rich night]

Yeah agree

[thorn rapids]

me when i wnt to say smth but totally forget what

uh right dmg should be at least like 10-15% higher i thikn bc the bpact aspect is broken rn

[abstract tiger]

Reassuring ig

I was surprised my non-hero fallen dmg dropped so much when it didn't receive that many nerfs

[versed orbit]

So I saw that new fallen gameplay in beta. (Palafallen with rally)
Guess it's time to lvl assassin..

[abstract tiger]

Assassin glowup is insane bro

[rich night]

Isnt this just at T2/T3 mythic..

[prime temple]

The bug makes the numbers actively go down instead of going up
so the difference between the 2 comes out to be ~20%

[fleet ibex]

even if i add 20% to my dps its still a significant nerf compared to old flalen

[prime temple]

we rebalanced AB according to popular demands, you'll see it later, the only remaining other thing we directly nerfed in terms of damage is air shout, and that is not coming back in the base node.

[fleet ibex]

i mean even upgraded air shout node is still way worse then old air shout and bmonk lost dmg this patch lol (and fallen/pala)

3 hits is just so balls for base air shout, it should be 4 base and 5 with the upgrade node

base 4 would still be a nerf but wouldnt nearly kill scream for warrior dps

[prime temple]

bmonk as a whole is a separate conversation lol

[rich night]

Airshout nerf is more than deserved lol, ty for rebalance on AB, current one looks shitty at best and only usable for solo content 👍

[rich night]

I still think if ppl start going into pala tree in order to do higher dmg builds its just a fail in design tho

[carmine nebula]

consecration spell mult nuke moment

[rich night]

Either nerf one or buff the other fr, having ppl build into the tank tree for dmg instead of going into the damage tree gives me emotional damage fr

[rich night]

Hopefully there was also some change to how CT sees the survivability for Fallen, ls is delusional

And do something about the 5% hp aspect, its just useless, literally 0 effect

[ashen mist]

#1399101739629678773

[tulip olive]

Making an archetype depend on potions just isn't fun imo. Nobody wants to build lifesteal, I don't think that's realistic at all.

I also think that hero was nerfed way too much this tim. Since the incentive to play it (mana and health sustain) doesn't exist to the same degree anymore it seems unreasonable to also nerf it's base damage and air shout in the same patch

[fleet ibex]

reposting this here bc i think it supports asthaes point, also a funny read arguing with this moron if anyone wants to take a look lmao

but yeah i think hero is gonna be struggling hard if the scream nerfs turn out to be this harsh

[raven eagle]

fallen buffs, is fallen usable rn or still unplayable? (like needing rally or pots to work)

[fleet ibex]

its sad too because on stuff like bmonk and paladin hero is catching strays

[fleet ibex]

when did they buff fallen?

[raven eagle]

https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1399252027787186309

[runic nacelle]

Rent free

[fleet ibex]

no way u followed me here hahahaha

[fleet ibex]

damn bro arca aspect getting nerfed already right after the buff is rough

[runic nacelle]

If you actually look at the air items that got nerfed rev losr 500 hp kera lost 600 hp 😭😭😭

[runic nacelle]

Thought about me so much had to mention me in a seperate post 🥰

[fleet ibex]

NOOOOOOOOOO BRO THEY NERFED COMPLETE CHAOS

[fleet ibex]

now i know that ur ragebaiting 100% bc ur ignoring etio and sagi lmao

[runic nacelle]

You really gonna look at me and tell me those nerfs are the end of the world 😭

Overreaction final boss

[fleet ibex]

pathetic ragebait

[runic nacelle]

Its okay bro im here to console you

[fleet ibex]

wait so isnt this just another nerf to fallen technically since ur losing .015-.03% blood pact reduction

oh wait i didnt read this whoops

oh shittt this is huge, cd is long as hell but its prob fine cuz higher +dmg then b4

intox even at 40% with heff tomes still gonna be super weak imo, really dont like the cap to it

also air shout still needs a bit of love, if it capped at 4 hits instead of 3 with base node it'd still be a fat nerf from before but viable

definitely a good step in the right direction tho

[raven eagle]

upon testing fallen doesnt seem any better (gameplay wise, damage is good now), I'll give feedback later

[random plume]

HP is still an issue, but other buffs are a huge W

[random plume]

Bye bye CC

It was fun to get crimsons tbf

We should get one trial for free at challenge 20-25

just like we get mission on challenge 4

Was fallen mythic fixed?

[versed orbit]

Bruh what
How does 30% to 40% cap fix anything? It's still not playable.

I'm still unsure why they nerf fallen. Like, maybe give riftwalker or ritualist some love instead of solving problems that don't exist.
Everyone had fun with fallen before the update. Now it's gonna be like 5 people playing it, awesome, 10 balanced trappers out of 10.

If you want to keep fallen playable, but don't want instant 100% heal - you can
A) make it heal over 5 seconds, like with potions
B) make corrupted scale not from max HP, but HP when u entered fallen

[rich night]

Lmao, i was almost spot on

[versed orbit]

Yeah, I thought that was meant to be a joke ;-;

[rich night]

Yeah...

AB change is something but aspect for it is still shit

[rich night]

Lmao, almost like ct didnt use a calculator 🥀

Or simple logic, AB buffs r good thio

[rich night]

Make it over 3sec with 0.5sec delay

So u still get punished and cant "overheal" if u time it to the hit (which imo is a part of skill expression but w.e)

I prefer to have the skill expression killed but the character alive fr

[raven eagle]

again let's not dogpile tho and just give fallen feedback instead of going after ct (makes it easier for feedback to be heard)

[rich night]

Yeah ur right, mb.

[exotic shell]

its less so about an instant 100% heal and moreso about a 100% heal requiring some skill or actual effort. You can't claim that current fallen on live isn't way overtuned with intoxicating blood

"its fun" isn't relevant to whether its healthy

[versed orbit]

I mean, make it heal more the less HP u have or smth
Because you need that 100% for literally everything.

[rich night]

Change the scaling so you need more attacks to regen the same amount of hp instead of putting a cap

meaning instead of 2.5% goes down to like 1%

[versed orbit]

That's also not bad

[rich night]

So instead of 40 hits its 100

Goes well with EnragedBlow since it incentivises u to be low hp for a long time

[rich night]

Btw, ty alot for comming out w what u guys view as the actual problem to be so its easier to give decent feedback

But killing our hp is like killing a mages mana, how u expect em to function

[versed orbit]

Also, I do feel the need to point out that the vision for fallen healing with hpr and lifesteal is delusional.

It has been said before, but CT doesn't seem to get it

[rich night]

Ill read the patch notes when i have time and ill do some math on it and ill try to give some actual feedback, sorry for bashing on ct b4.

[rich night]

And i believe more ppl said it too

[rich night]

This + the war scream nerfs will make it way harder to heal to full without slotting exhilarate, just b careful w how many hits yall try to make it bcs if its too high it will make the gameplay slow

[exotic shell]

Essentially: Fallen gets a mana cheat (the best of any archetype) by being able to use health as mana.

Every other archetype in the game to some degree needs to build mana sustain IDs to work, so it makes logical sense that fallen should build health sustain ids instead (since health == mana for fallen)

[versed orbit]

There aren't any health IDs that work for fallen tho :(

[rich night]

Some others have unlimited mana too tbh, but i digress, anyways, what i said before would make you have to be very careful w hm your spells cost, in live patch im doing 35mana uppercut and i can full heal so yeah i do believe its broken, but tunning the number of hits i need would drastically change this

[rich night]

Yeah, the fact that u can regen mana while ur casting spells but fallen cant rlly regen hp while casting spells or be healed by allies is a big different on that

Once again, ty for clarity.

[versed orbit]

Also, I wouldn't say fallen has the best mana ability in the game. Arcanist/Riftwalker get manastorm

[rich night]

Mfw i can go mage and have 450mana and spam meteors from a safe distance

Which basically nullifies the need to build for survivability

Arcanist still weak tho imo, but thats another thread

[versed orbit]

Real
When I played RW, it took like 5 minutes of me spamming meteors+ice snake non stop for me to run out of mana

[random plume]

Set the hardcap to 80%, with exhilarate people willing to risk it to go low hp will get a chance for full recovery with some extra HP spare to use as mobility on offhand when on cd, while if u skill issue u might not get all the healing necessary to fully recover. I think the fact that fallen should be played around taking high risk by going low HP is overlooked here.

Or make the healing noncapped, but for next % you would need to deal more hits (dimishing returns)

So you would be punished for lack of sustain and missing your hits

(Im still a fan of getting old Intoxicating, but trying to make it reasonable for both sides)

Also fallen on live is op with healing due to airshout being prenerf

Since shout deals the most hits usually

Try to test how it goes with postnerf airshout

[thorn rapids]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter/#4enenenenenenCd850

Spear Lv. 103-105 (3✫, 3✫)
[Dernic Sludgebomb | Dernic Sludgebomb
Dernic Sludgebomb | Dernic Sludgebomb
Dernic Sludgebomb | Dernic Sludgebomb]
moment

[exotic shell]

I dont believe that being that low on hp is risky enough right now. The amount of mobility combined with agi really prevents a lot of the risk

if the cap was 80% then it would just be a full heal

and exhilarate would be weirdly not powerful at all

[random plume]

If we are going to balance it around hero it wont really make sense, if one weapon is clearly superior to other options it should get nerfs individually. You wont have same agi on tcrack, alkatraz or bbath

[random plume]

What about dimishing returns then? Each % of healing requires more effort

[exotic shell]

I agree we shouldn't balance it around one weapon but the scenario that we're currently in does impact things. Anytime any of these things that needs nerfing gets nerfed everyone says its unwarranted too

[random plume]

I think 95% of community could agree that hero was too strong

That other 5% being hero fanboys being mad that their totally op weapon gets nerfed

On other weapons the risk of being low on hp is very notable

Bbath being the most forgiving with ws boost but at the cost of max hp so it evens out

Meanwhile alka being slow as hell

[random plume]

Making archetype require 103 crafting skill to be usable is a flawed concept. It would help, but if you insist on LS, there should be a decent noncrafted for that too.

Otherwise its apocalypse gaming

Its not really appealing to see archetype work with even more limited list of items

Previously using hero was meta, now using LS would be necessity

[thorn rapids]

(twas a joke)

[random plume]

With current state of fallen That wasnt clear, mb.

Imagine if we had warrior bonder

so we could hold it as a hpr offhand

[tulip olive]

Yea this mission is completely useless now ... Ts..

[random plume]

thaumatic being useful fr on cd

[wary lichen]

It makes sense but neither the item pool nor the base class support lifesteal in any meaningful way to become essential to gameplay

And lifestealing trash mobs you/teammates kill while corrupted is still a massive conflict

[runic nacelle]

^

That is thaumic gameplay

[runic nacelle]

Fallen = hero now 😭😭😭😭

[runic nacelle]

Are we forgetting this sick archetype its called arcanist

[wicked acorn]

tbh i agree that being on low hp isn’t risky enough

especially on high agi

intox instant heal is just crazy

[fleet ibex]

Yea but I feel like that’s hard to balance around bc of how much skill variation there is in the game

[wicked acorn]

yeah it’s kinda just the nature of skilled play is that if you can dodge anything hp doesn’t matter

although i’m going to be honest there’s like one total attack in this game i actually use intox as a panic button for

and thaumic doesn’t actually make fallen more risk it just makes it more annoying

gonna be honest if they really wanted to make fallen punishing you would probably want to force players to play at low health for longer

[wicked acorn]

the investment you need for thaumic is like defense to get life steal and hpr so like…

you end up just making a tankier build 😭😭

that has even less problems outside of corrupted

idk most of the fallen builds i play rn are like one shot at half hp so im not even sure what im supposed to do to make it more risky

i think the fact you have a class that basically cuts your own ehp down to one shot range no matter what you build is already inherently risky

idk i just think the issue is kinda the range

[fleet ibex]

Yeah that’s what I’m saying it comes down to skill level

They’re balancing fallen around the top % of players and screwing over the low levels/burgers with intox

Like do u rlly expect new players to use 2-3 pots after every corrupted? wtf are they doing

[wicked acorn]

half moon and air shout is just way too much safety and bash upper is just completely terrible on items that aren’t completely overstatted items like alka and bloodbath

kinda just a cooked class

idk i literally just think if intox like was punishing at all?? it would be fine since half the time if you tank a hit and you survive it’s like oh no! i only heal 120% now instead of 180%

big whoop

maybe instead of making intox scale off of health lost in fallen it scales off of health spent?

idk what the point is though since inevitably if the healing method isn’t better than pots people will just chug them

[rich night]

Damn, nerf ts alrd, he regenerated so much w ls

[wicked acorn]

i mean you shoul dwatch me play tna

[rich night]

Not all builds can go high agi tho

[wicked acorn]

watched phase completely dogshit

[rich night]

Like bbath its annoying for that etc Hero just gives u 50 raw stats 30 of em being agi 🥀

[wicked acorn]

bbath is 60 str dex 😭

[random plume]

Balancing around one weapon moment ✨

[wicked acorn]

item is just crazy to be honest

[rich night]

Yeah, but this dosent mean theres no risk, its just skill expression

[wicked acorn]

idk the game just too easy you gotta introduce less and less qol for yourself to keep it interesting

its not even like fallen specifically that someho wmakes this game too easy

[rich night]

Exactly, which is what enraged blow motivates u doing

[random plume]

Imho

Armor breaker should be moved to 70% Corrupt so you would like to stay above that for 8s

[rich night]

Yup, atp just bigmac instead of wasting ID's

[random plume]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[wicked acorn]

fallen is just like good training wheels class which is why you see a huge representation of players

[rich night]

Yeah, and its close range

[wicked acorn]

but like the difference between a good fallen and someone who is new to the class is rather large

to be honest i would not call half moon swipe particularly close ranged

that thing is like 7 blocks+ range

[rich night]

Bash is just kinda shit imo ngl

[random plume]

I wonder how ability trees would work if we could turn off certain unlocked nodes

that were necessary to progress

[rich night]

Make it be a scaling of 1% instead of 2.5%, so instead of healing 180% you heal 72%

It would motivate u to stay low hp bcs it takes more atks to stack and u dont heal as much but its still uncapped

Also forces u to use builds that dont have high ability cost if u dont wanna kill yrself, its kinda baffling how i can have upper cost 35 energy and still b chill ngl

[wicked acorn]

bash is very good

[rich night]

LMAO i forgor about that one, it just came to mind NOL running nonstop

[wicked acorn]

idk its just overshadowed

[rich night]

Its def my fav ability but feels to slow and lower dmg compared to upper or scream currently

I love the sound of bash and i like the concept of the aoe dot of boiling blood

[wicked acorn]

the fact that same build bash upper just does like <2/3rds of its damage upperscream is just kind of crazy

[rich night]

Ill keep on pushing for this since it actually would make a change in builds without pushing for ls or hpr and higher skill ceiling

With Intox at 2.5% means i only need to do 40 hits for 100% hp and with AirShout in live + tempest thats rlly easy to get

[rich night]

Also pushes u to use Exhilarate if u wanna use higher cost abilities

[rich night]

If u bump it down to 1% its 100hits and with the airshout nerf that will prob b more than noticible

[rich night]

Or if its still too much bump it down to 0.75% so its like 135 hits or smthng, making math from head

I should say tho, i like alot the AB change, if u use it correctly its a big bump in dmg, if you dont use it correctly you get punished w a big cd

[random plume]

So far wasnt 1s cd shared between abilities right now?

[rich night]

Oh yikes, i forgot about that

Revert that part idk

[random plume]

Stacking that heal is no longer free

[rich night]

Doing a burst and going 20miles away from the boss to wait 5sec aint risky anyways

Just give incentives to stay near the boss at low hp for a long time

[rich night]

Ur prob bound to fuck up, either for greed or skill issue

[random plume]

I mean, even with 2.5% if its 1s cooldown, it would take 40s of bursting to get u back to 100% unless Im missing something.

[fleet ibex]

What if they made intox heal u over the 5s fallen downtime instead of instant

[rich night]

Yeah but not same thing ngl

[random plume]

Proposed in x variants Y amount of times

Terminated said the issue wasnt that its instant, but rather than it requires no skill

[fleet ibex]

Same guy that added eldritch call is concerned about skill

[rich night]

Asking for higher number of hits its a way to ask for more skill...

[random plume]

-> @fleet ibex
#1397637953542422579 message

[rich night]

Also fucking up builds for ls is not a way of "skill" 🥀

[rich night]

They alrd nerfed number of hits w the AirShout nerf, just ask for more hits 🥀

[random plume]

I want to see LS on TNA who can randomly pop you a close range attack which will obliterate any glass build anyway

[rich night]

Ur gonna make greg melee the team 😭

[random plume]

Would be funny to see 4 fallen meeles take on TNA

[rich night]

Idk, only raid i see it have any use is tcc, and even so u fuck up the whole build for that

[random plume]

TCC is good for meeles tbf

[rich night]

Yeah ik, thats the point

[rich night]

Why tf r they even caring about a cap then wtf

Like TCC and Worm constantly die in 20sec, if ur 40sec hitting nonstop while in corrupted and still alive you deserve the 100% dawg 😭 thats cancer asf

[wicked acorn]

they’re capping it so you have to patch up your health with lifesteal

[rich night]

Then why the delay?

It takes u 16sec for the current 40%cap

[random plume]

1s cooldown is here so u have to play skillfully to get that 40% healed

[wicked acorn]

think leo said somewhere that the ideal healing is split between intox exhil and ls

[rich night]

Ts troll asf, i didnt even remember it was 1s SHARED

[wicked acorn]

intox is just an unskilled ability in general

[rich night]

Make it require higher hit count, allows for different playstyles

Like at 0.75% its 135 hits, make it 0.5s nonshared, airshout is nerfed

[fleet ibex]

Problem then is it favors sustain when they want burst to be the main playstyle

[rich night]

Half your ability tree favours sustain

[wicked acorn]

but also the skill shouldn’t be in your downtime that’s so strange

[random plume]

The problem of intoxicating (and inherently exhilarate) is that fallen doesnt have other nodes to self heal that could warrant specific playstyle other than going for LS on thaumatic

[fleet ibex]

Yeah I’m just quoting what they said

[random plume]

Imagine if the healing was also moved partially to Bloodlust, so it heals you based on enemies hit, so u have to position yourself to hit the most

[wicked acorn]

i also don’t think following the boss and meleeing 3 times is particularly skillful 💔

[fleet ibex]

That’s a great idea

[random plume]

Focusing entire healing on one node thats on top of the tree is just not the way to go

We should be able to heal to make the archetype going, just could split it to different nodes to require playing around your healing skills

[wicked acorn]

it certainly didn’t feel skillful or risky to me in tna

[rich night]

Idk i think they r moving to a more unskilled playstyle, slower and removes all yr damage at the overall fight

[rich night]

when will chasing down enemies to melee em for a bit of hp that regens in 3s ever feel skillful dawg

[random plume]

Actually looking around yourself so u can ensure u hit more than less enemies to get more healing feels atleast a little bit skillful

definetly more than what is is now

[rich night]

They r asking for fallen to do less instead of asking it to do more and call it skillful :/

[random plume]

where you aim and shoot and thats just about it in terms of self healing

[wicked acorn]

oh well idc i think they’re pretty decided on whether they’re releasing life steal fallen

[random plume]

Make lifesteal store hp during corrupt then

[wicked acorn]

i’m prepared to see playrate tank

[random plume]

atleast give us reason to play meele when its damage is not dogshit ...

[rich night]

How do they see ppl going into pala for dmg now and not think it is a problem 🥀 fallen n monk r so in the gutter

[wicked acorn]

this is just what intox does

all roads lead to sacred surge

[rich night]

Its more the team balancing over 1 wep fr

[random plume]

It was always about going paladin

[wicked acorn]

debatable

balancing for a battle monk node 💔💔💔💔

[random plume]

2024 You take a node or two from paladin tree
2025 You take a node or two from fallen tree

[rich night]

I think ill just move to rage build archer and call that the new fallen

[random plume]

Go for arcanist

[rich night]

I rlly despise mages in all games

[fleet ibex]

Rage Gaia arcanist 🔥

[random plume]

You wont really feel the difference other than playing around Greed mID

Tbf im more or less considering putting greed on my fallen and build stealing

[rich night]

Better than ls dawg

[random plume]

Oh right, is it just me or magnet mID now pulls items away from you or throws them around randomly? My LR build mage really cant pick up anything anymore

[fleet ibex]

Also is heff bugged on intox/exhil or am I trippin? I had 22 heff pain cycle + 23 from tomes, should intox + exhil healing 70 total + 45% (so ~102% total) full heal me? I was only restoring like 80% of my health bar

[random plume]

Does Heff even work for exhilarate?

[rich night]

Did u hit enemies for 16sec?

[fleet ibex]

I’m not sure but why wouldn’t it?

[random plume]

fr

[fleet ibex]

Wait u need to hit shit for SIXTEEN seconds to full proc the 40%??? What the fuck

[random plume]

Technically you should be spamming for 16s to get that 40% now with "1s shared cd"

[fleet ibex]

Naw bro this shit is even more ass then I thought 😭

[random plume]

yeah its 2.5% on 1s shared cooldown

[rich night]

ct team pulling yr leg

[random plume]

3rd dot @fleet ibex

Maybe we just failed to reach that 40% attp

[fleet ibex]

Insane bro wtf are they doing

[random plume]

It doesnt matter if they move the cap to 100% if u cant reach it in 40s

[fleet ibex]

We’re building fallen for burst but then make its primarily healing inherently anti burst

[random plume]

Blunt force enjoyers having 30s corrupt couldnt even reach it

[fleet ibex]

Great game design!

[rich night]

And u were talking about my idea being antiburst

[rich night]

Mine atleast dosent stop u from bursting, just motivates u to be low hp for long

[random plume]

Tbf AT achieved their goal, now I pick intoxicating just for exhilarate and not the other way around because its so ass ❤️

[rich night]

Why u even picking fallen now 😭

Like i dont wanna be mean but this is the type of things that made me say CT didnt grab a calculator

[random plume]

Previously my bursts were 12s when I was playing around generalist haem bbath

if i use it right now, I might not even get that 40%

[rich night]

Yeah, so the less bursty burst

[random plume]

And I thought that burst was really long

[rich night]

Bcs of generalist

[random plume]

I love the idea of generalist allowing u to cheese axe kick

if u always hit it on uppercut, you could get free +150%

[rich night]

12sec will give u a whopping 30% hp WOAH

[random plume]

but it punished u for messing it up

axe kick with pressure will be so goated for bmonk

[rich night]

Yeah, type of things that play into skill expression and risk, if u mess up its 7% of yr hp bar gone (which u use as mana) and you gotta flush ur generalist or w.e

[random plume]

1000 hp gone

if umess the cycle and then u gotta fix it, if udo it wrong its another 1k potentially gone

[rich night]

Ha ye, no haemo?

[random plume]

I think it was without haemo not sure tho

since my bbath is high hp one (95+)

[rich night]

Only said 7%hp bcs 35 * 0.2 is 7

[wicked acorn]

likely you’re not even getting the intox cap

[rich night]

Ofc i assumed yr upper is 35mana

Who greenlit the 1s shared changes 😭

[random plume]

I think it was higher, since on base its 40 + 15 (axe kick) - 5 (half moon), around 45 - 60 Int depending on variant, and -3 flat from Chain rule since I went for best damage and other reductions

Since now I got to play around catamaran I just need to improvise and sacrifice axe kick for cleansing breeze

[rich night]

Dont forget rally is on 3s cd now it does heal more tho

[random plume]

Just got to bear with it

atleast its now on charge and not impact so its slightly better..

[rich night]

Ill read both posts now to make sense of the real changes

[random plume]

I did it

managed to get a 18s burst build that gets u to max health if u abuse HEFF and Catamaran

Is damage good no, should u use it no

Is bpact aspect still bugged?

[wicked acorn]

no

[random plume]

470k dps it is then 🏳️ (on last 30%)

on 20s burst

just to get max healing after spamming catamaran afterwards

Burst is so long my armour breaker is almost off cd after I leave corrupted

[rich night]

Fallen changes from live to beta

Aspects

• Aspect of Maniacal Frisson (Legendary) -> New
  • Exhilarate restores +2/3/4/5% of your Corrupted Bar as max health
• Aspect of the Tightrope Walk (Fabled) -> New
  • Brink of Madness activates at +5/6/8% higher health
• Aspect of the Berserker (Fabled) -> New
  • Armour Breaker gains +4/6/8% Damage Bonus (⚔) to Self
• Fallen's Embodiment of Blind Fury (Mythic)
  • T1: Reduce Blood Pact health cost by 15% = 0.0525%?
  • T2: Now increases Blood Pact's Damage by +5% to +8.35% -> 20% to 33.35%
  • T3: Now increases Blood Pact's Damage by +8% to +13.35% -> 23% to 38.35%

Abilities / AP

• Armour Breaker -> Rebalance
  • Cooldown: 12s -> 16s
  • Duration: Same aka 8s
  • Damage: +20% -> +30%
  • Corruption requirement: 30% -> 40%
• War Scream -> Nerf
  • Air Shout Max hits on single enemy: 3
• Intoxicating Blood -> Nerf
  • Max Healing Cap: 40%
  • Cooldown: 1s SHARED among all abilities
• Massacre's Corrupted -> Rebalance
  • Corrupted gain averages out to 1.5% per second // Powders add 3%
  • Changed to a Yellow Node 1 AP And from page 6 to 5
• Mindless Slaughter (1 AP) -> New
  • Doubles Massacre's Strength
  • Adds a 1% Health Cost to Main Attacks and Powder Specials in and out of corrupted
  • Location: Page 6
• Thaumic Adrenaline (2 AP) -> New
  • For every 1% Missing HP = HPR & LS become +2% stronger
  • Location: Page 7
• Blood Pact -> Buff
  • Blood Pact now adds 15-25% ratio hp / mana used
  • Blood Pact now boosts the damage of all abilities that are activated by a spell (for example Bloodlust from War Scream)
• Haemorrhages -> Buff
  • Blood Pact health cost reduction: -0.1% to -0.115%

Can someone confirm, are this all the changes from live to current beta for fallen?

[random plume]

Blust requiring warscream to get the bonus is so unfun

[rich night]

Ah i forgor to add the warscream stuff

[random plume]

Switching to more offensive build got me a little bit of gap in sustain, time to find a high HPR weapon to fill it

[rich night]

Done.

[rich night]

Most is fineish, just fully disagree with Intoxicating Blood direction and Aspect of Maniacal Frisson numbers

[fleet ibex]

do u have to shift cancel fallen to get the bloodlust boost?

[random plume]

Apparently yes

[fleet ibex]

cringe

[random plume]

Atleast thats what I saw on dummy 🔥

that 0.01% of players using ws+shift to activate blust will get a slight buff 🔥

[rich night]

Bloodlust is only like 150k dmg every so often eitherway, its more so a stone in the way for haemo

or a tool to clear trash mobs sometimes

[fleet ibex]

remember back in the day when bloodlust would do 400k dmg

[rich night]

nah i dont, i started playing like a month or 2 ago

[fleet ibex]

dang

it used to get damage from corrupted

[rich night]

a month ago, just checked my discord date 💔

[random plume]

I found the solution of our sustain problems

TCC alternative

[rich night]

Quit my previous game bcs of stoopid ban waves, basically you could fake report anyone to get em banned, whole speedrunning community got shot

[random plume]

We gonna get bonfire soon so it will be 5% trust

Its a shame we cant get maxed aspects for beta testing

Like how are we supposed to test stuff if we wont get a chance to get them anyway

[rich night]

Yeah, its not a true sandbox, thats why im resorting to simply doing math on the changes

[ashen mist]

combined with agi...
#1399101739629678773
Literally fallen is completely fine except for hero
and then fallen keeps getting nerfed instead of the stuff I noted in the post I made

[ashen mist]

we are cooked guys
fallen has been nerfed 1000 times and still apparently needs more nerfing 😭
and on top of that apparently we need to build life steal now

why not make bloodlust proc life steal or something?

[ashen mist]

Yeah but then you have a long cooldown to be able to do damage again 😭

[rich night]

yeah, realistically yr avg dps in a boss fight is lower than the other dps options ngl

[random plume]

This feels really delicious on fallen today.

[rich night]

I cant stress enough, cap isnt even the biggest prob, they gotta revert the 1s change

[ashen mist]

✅

[wicked acorn]

i can’t even lie i think the fallen changes are pretty good

thaumic is mid execution

but otherwise it’s not even that bad

[ashen mist]

and then meanwhile arcanist prints mana out of thin air without a cooldown unlike fallen

[rich night]

^^

[wicked acorn]

my only criticisms are that thaumic needs to be rethought and that fallen is pushed even more into an aspect reliant class

and also that burst is ironically safer than sustain

[rich night]

Wdym

Burst -> out -> potion?

[wicked acorn]

yep

the time you are low health is comparatively shorter

[rich night]

yeah, thats why i was giving an idea that motivates u to fight for longer since they were talking about skill expression

[rich night]

AB makes it seem like they want yr bursts to be around 8s but that means u only heal 20% from intox, i rlly think they didnt test or calculate anything

[wicked acorn]

new ab is really good

[rich night]

Yeah, i wanst talking shit about ab at all

[wicked acorn]

i don’t get the hate

[wicked acorn]

new ab lines up with intox a lot better

[rich night]

How so?

[wicked acorn]

if you get full effectiveness from ab you likely get full from intox

it’s not 8s burst it’s 8s of ab

[rich night]

No. i talked about the math b4 sir, 8sec is 20% 16sec is 40%

[wicked acorn]

you not getting to 40 corrupt in 0 seconds

[rich night]

Yeah, but i also aint doing 8sec to 40 corrupted on spellspam builds 😭 , unless its generalist but thats basically locking u to a few playstyles

[wicked acorn]

build some sustain

[rich night]

Like what? ls?

[wary lichen]

Don't you get tail swiped if you do it without aspect

[wicked acorn]

i tried it without aspect

[wary lichen]

I tried without aspect range+ and it felt like a solid 2 block range

[wicked acorn]

it’s mitigated by the fact you have 95 def

and also in tna it’s nonfunctional cuz of watched phase

[wary lichen]

watched phase becoming a 99.9% dmg reduc instead of invincibility would probably be nice for a lot of classes and items

[rich night]

Hmm, i was thinking following AB's would be 8s burst -> 5sec corrupt cd -> 3sec to stack AB so ye it would b 11sec burst ig

[wicked acorn]

i didn’t say it was good i just think it was not very skillful

[rich night]

Meaning only first ab would b out of sync

[wicked acorn]

i usually get 12 second full cycle

[rich night]

hm cps

[wicked acorn]

idk i just think thaumic missed the mark i get what they were trying to do

[wicked acorn]

like 10

what i think thaumic should be reworked to if they bother is making it restore % missing health + 10% max per second of meleeing

and then give it like some extra melee range so it’s not aspect reliant

[rich night]

Im getting 12-13 without the autoclicker mod, meaning w the same build as u id get ~10s for a full cycle and thats counting im not fucking up combo or ever getting hit

[wicked acorn]

if ur getting 12-13 u getting rate limited fast

83 delay is not sustainable for more than like 4 seconds

[wicked acorn]

and then make bakals grasp give you like speed 1 when you exit corrupt or something

or bloodlust getting an additional effect of giving you some speed

[rich night]

If ur going that way why even play spell spam btw?

Wouldnt it be better to just go hmelee at that point?

[wicked acorn]

what

[rich night]

Mb for half sentence, dozed off, i meant if ur alrd building for ls sustain, is there a way to still do a decent spell spam build

[wicked acorn]

i just don’t think forcing players to go ls is a reasonable ask

esp cuz it’s not like 300 is usable

no you need deadass like 1000+ to make it worthwhile

and any multiplier above 2 automatically makes it degenerate

[rich night]

Yeah, i still think the ls wont stick, its just gonna be chugging hp pots

[wicked acorn]

or maybe thaumic could grant speed on melee

it’s called adrenaline and having no speed effects on it seems like a missed opportunity

would also be cool to have some more tstack support

alkatraz tstack is genuinely hanging on by a thread

also it low key deserves to be a 1 ap node in its current iteration

[fleet ibex]

Yeah I thought same when it came out

The problem is that AT are hard set on fallen being able to build only damage = major issue, so they’re probably not gonna change thaum/their vision

[wicked acorn]

me when the damage class builds damage

[fleet ibex]

That’s what I’m sayin 😂😂

It’s like how arca doesn’t have to build mana sustain

[wicked acorn]

people would have a much different view on paladin if they just tried building damage on it ngl

and stopped building wfa

[slim crypt]

terraria calamity mod reference?

[wicked acorn]

that thing is so broken it’s crazy

[fleet ibex]

Surge and air shout both got nerfed damage wise so idk if pala will still be too good

[wicked acorn]

ngl air shout is nerfed only on boss

and surge got nerfed by 10%… of of a 750% ratio 😭😭😭😭

[fleet ibex]

Nah even on dummy you’d hit 4-5 hits b4, now it’s only 3

[fleet ibex]

I think it’s 18% cuz it went form 750 to 625

[rich night]

Depends where u look

[wicked acorn]

isn’t it 675

[fleet ibex]

375 + 250 from cons

[wicked acorn]

i see

idk i was able to get like 510k on hero but i wasn’t able to full sustain

i don’t think it got nerfed that hard i’m gonna be real

[fleet ibex]

Can u send build that sounds insane

[wicked acorn]

it is the current build 😭 though i think i swapped pain cycle

[fleet ibex]

Storm cardiac?

[wicked acorn]

oh and 40 int

idk i never invested in a good cardiac so i didn’t really test performance

i was using positive mana conduit and pain cycle

[fleet ibex]

Oh ok

[wicked acorn]

and it kinda just felt fine

[fleet ibex]

I would use pain cycle if u didn’t have to fucking hit 16 seconds of dps to get intox healing

[wicked acorn]

yea that’s why i used positive mana

[fleet ibex]

But then ur ab runs out early :/

Fallen just a mess rn it’s sad

[wicked acorn]

idk the build i was using it actually synced quite well

[fleet ibex]

Also highkey I thought u were talking about paladin here lmao

[wicked acorn]

no lol

the copium made me think palafallen was gonna be real

[wet walrus]

hmmm how about increasing healing the less health u have

like 90% health heals only 0.01% of health per hit and 10% 0,1% or smth like that

im not a number guy

about the mana cheat thingy

its pretty hard to fix i think

it either u have to buff dmg to match dps loss from hpr builds or make hpr req so low it can be matched by hpr tomes

and both kinda suck

[wet walrus]

i think fallen needs something to do with corrupted cd

maybe like for 4 or 5 seconds after leaving corrupted spells proc ls idk

or dont deal any dmg but heal u for their mana cost in health

band - aid

like u need to heal urself with casting some spells

bcs standing still for 5 seconds isnt very funny

[true iris]

Damn they fold like a chair whenever they try to touch fallen

[wet walrus]

i just think its very hard to balance something off the it has a lot of x lets make it need exact same amount of y to compensate

mr is much more accesible than hpr and we cannot just swap them with fallen

also bcs hpr is like mostly on no dmg items (basically skill issue stat)

and adding it as the stat for dps really bricks dmg output

fallen needs healing in ability bcs any other source will benefit every other archetype

i got an idea

add to intoxicated healing from hpr

but again it doesnt solves "no hpr from most of the items" issue

maybe hpr from tomes will be enough

[true iris]

Increase blood pact health usage, revert intox and healing, revert rally needing cleansing breeze, move airshout to where thunder clap is and revert the hits thing

https://tenor.com/view/mundo-feliz-onetreehsll-world-if-gif-14071235670792471304

[wet walrus]

burst builds are gonna be in hell

[true iris]

How

[wet walrus]

on the main i alr do entire 100% corrupted burst in 9 second (with t2 aspect) if hp usage increases im afraid it will become 5 seconds of dmg

and 5 seconds of healing equilibrium xD

[true iris]

It's called burst

[wet walrus]

but not like 5 seconds 💀

[true iris]

U get ur rally back to heal back instead of stroking it

[true iris]

Godforbid u build the tiniest bit of sustain

[wet walrus]

bbath

[true iris]

Godforbid u don't abuse getting 500 mana every time u corrupt

[wet walrus]

mr bbath builds 🔥

[true iris]

Int and - cost bro

[wet walrus]

its alr with them

[true iris]

Send me ur build

Or just tell me ur cost and cycle

[wet walrus]

upper bash 834hp 317hp

12k max hp

[true iris]

No like wynnbuilder mana cost

[wet walrus]

i dont have my build on wynnbuilder

[true iris]

Bloodpact is % base so u can have 10 hp or 100k and it will sustain just as long

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/

Take like the 3 mins to put stuff in

[wet walrus]

33 and 9 mana

[true iris]

33 upper 9 bash?

[true iris]

Can u send the build aswell

[wet walrus]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CI0G7WM3G00+Qm28M01t8mlX9FolfF+T+F

rings are crafted not olives but too lazy to add them

[true iris]

Might actually just be a tree issue axe kick greed but idk the node does add dmg and its supposed to have downsides https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CI0G7WM3G00+Qm28M01t8mlX9Folvwutn-0

[wet walrus]

true

anyway i still think increasing cost will only favor sustain builds

i hate hero so much plz let ppl have fun with earth mythics

[true iris]

Idk air items are just so power creept that yea u can do more dmg with et but u also sac all qol and sustain just for it

Defensive stat has no meaning when it does comparable dmg with shit ton of -cost items and also ws

Fake ehp believers are just delusional and don't actually realize how often that shit safes ur ass

[wet walrus]

about hpr

admins want hpr to be mr for fallen

[wicked acorn]

hero will never die

say that again..

[true iris]

https://tenor.com/view/mercy-overwatch-come-here-gif-14280244

[wet walrus]

btw i didnt knew they buffed fallen dmg a lot

its like actually a lot

i do +~40% dps than main

and i dont even have new aspecs

maybe running fallen with healer isnt that bad after all

okay maybe not 40%

more like 25

[wicked acorn]

its like a 20% buff if you play it correctly

which is pretty fair given the dramatic drop in qol

[wet walrus]

from ~450k to ~550k

[wicked acorn]

idk i would like to see it not buffed like this though

[true iris]

I agree fallen players have it good boltslingers committed suicide after bouncing bomb

[wicked acorn]

battery hop on tna

[true iris]

Eating

[wet walrus]

i think buff burst even more and slap "runs only with healers" and im ok with it

[fleet ibex]

On what build

[wet walrus]

bad calc

its ~20%

for some reason i thought i deal 300k dps on main

[rich night]

This guy spittin

[rich night]

generalist bbath lasts for a big while ngl

[exotic shell]

Yeah no. We nerfed fallen for a very good reason

this was not healthy

[random plume]

Any plans on expanding healing capabilities beyond requiring LS offhand? Maybe new healing nodes etc

[exotic shell]

Well Thaum was a new healing node. We're discussing what to do

[random plume]

Its placement also feels off, Bmonk is designed around spellspam, The only gain it could have from that node is HPR since you wont see LS bmonks, while on fallen it feels like just another meele fallen upgrade

that makes it reasonable to hold that autoclicker when on cd

But that's just about it at this point

Worst part is that its completly nullified in value when all cannon fodder dies to bloodlust

[rich night]

Its 2 AP at the bottom tho

[random plume]

2AP would be fine if it was next to mindless slaughter

[rich night]

And dosent do nearlly enough when u consider the items...

[random plume]

so meeles wouldnt need to take blust for it

[rich night]

Thats why i said both 2ap and at the bottom, choose one or the other ngl

[random plume]

which would actually allow for its intended usage

[rich night]

Im still gonna see it as useless tho, i pref to just pot insted of fucking build for offhnd

[random plume]

Thaum:
For meele:

Idea 8/10
Placement 1/10

For Spells:
Idea 1/10
Placement 6/10

[rich night]

Also will there b any changes for the 1sec in Intox? why even have a cap if u have 1sec shared cd

[true iris]

I agree but I feel like it was mainly upperscream that was the problem child upper bash was in a fine state with rally and how fast it burst

Idk I would've preffered u guys have different incentives of healing other than build lifesteal/hpr and sustain for x seconds but ig there's only so much u can do with ability tree

[wicked acorn]

any form of healing that doesnt need to interact with the enemy turns into what rally was or intox blood

[fleet ibex]

After corrupted, gain lifesteal on your spells for 5 seconds

Cool and fun solution but probably not possible to implement

Also u guys say u want burst to be the primary fallen playstyle

But then u have intox do 2.5% healing per second so it punishes burst

And burst still has to deal with the same exact corrupt downtime, so like 40% of the time ur not actually dealing damage and then ur overall dps goes to shit

Kinda backwards logic

[random plume]

Would be funny playing around spellspam for HP off cd if it had lifesteal but dealt no damage for 5s

But then u would need to give up on blust to make sure u wont kill off the cannon fodder

[wicked acorn]

Bloodbath:
CI-440a0WbNPvpIoxrBKz-T3Q3f08R0MUbbFP8hZ9LHRG9lNRGjlhnDlPbZxMPjPj9VVLYZPNPV9lPbZTZbrjLInhvrhPllHZPZlbPljpHhvDbhH9pPbVHZlh9LHBnPVFPZLJhbX9ZHZFVHjj19hbIPlrHhHlbN9pHPljr9v9VVbJ1vZZrbnVFJ9VVlbDN9bj-9N3EAM846OA28E86882E8G84E64484866648A84elZw3ubGCO+s5u14WY04h0m4e000+50+R040800uV8eut1G0WWaYV11W-7GiWpPN0W17eoW3KTGnp3AUj0olw66Kv2GsDOG4I7Qmk2HzIGwJ

Hero:
CI-440Q0W8qQvBKzV82QXc0WX0SYPLX9lPD9VVvlNPjrH9dbZrPVVbZVvjNbrPljHVJlblNbjHrNbBHVPHpHlNHXjHVpHjlbBHrbhlNZblNPZLbhlbBHrH9T1NPVHnlPVPxPZLlNPjrH9dbZrPVVLhH9lVvjlhHZLlNHZbZHjhHjbVpHPlrPVVFPj9ddH9hrNHZPlPjZbVbZLHhZHHFHFLbPZLlblNHZHtlrPHVFHh-fp48C888C4A6EK44AE4448AI8C8EK8E48I8444CCA468ghNglBm7u5Sr5vH4WY06K1W9W10CKyNKyp0700InVW0m-3KMmPhB0uWZRT0Hv1458KyMX208oP3xd5CCez266qk133Q0

EOTB Ring:
CI-440e0W7otNquDsOrBKz-j32z3A10A0o22r25IINemnn3Zf0

EOTB Bracelet:
CI-440m0W7otNqubQIJqNqxBKz-m44U5C10AWo22r25IINemnn3Zf0

EOTB Necklace:
CI-440m0W7otNquBKJtNIJqBKz-m44U5C10A0p22r25IINemnn3Zf0

Sagi:
CI-440e00EILsxRoQMSxBKz-14z3g0uO0wMHNPFHbJlNHDHZl9nhPjHtlh9bhFPZ9hPVvX9LPD9VPZlNHhPLNlN9ZFjbkPjlbVFlb9VVbrlNHnjHhlbL9PZlNHjrPJlZHjjbJlNHNbhjHBnl9VjbVH9pHjlNHXpnVZHh9BVHlbN9hFNPllPZL9ll9DTj-jF3846E4UE46AA4484A68486I46A68C8K48EwpXorwD4WX04h048WHSQ2GCg2Guq2EUn17e01IZ5CPNJ3bYhQeKST3bYBV0v2az39dGg423YG0

Etiolation:
CI-440c00dRMvNoRMvuBKz-l3UZf00T0QGjdPlHlNH9BjHZDHbJZ9lnh9VVPLNlPZlNHFHHdHjlhH9DNHjbJlNH-aPFLhbrjJbVP9LH9ZFJVbh9D9d9BVHbJjnjl9PZPZLPljHVJBv9BjbhBPZLV9lHZlHZHhLvvmDN9Z9DDbXdVPjNXHZlPjlbBH9FXPhHFPFH9VVvJhbX9THHZFPjl9ZDH-Lk36E4EA46EE468AE6AE4KC4ICC84S444EE828mfdkLk7v34Wf028W9BB2GuS2GlY2Glo2Eab16PSm98FWWO1JtsmGIFTvOeG8T364Zo3KB6MWKAk0

if anyone wants to play around with them

[rich night]

Exactly, also enraged blow rewards you for being low for long

Poor game design ngl 💩

[ashen mist]

this games balance has been 💩 for the last few months
its so sad

[barren sonnet]

Health potions only stack to 30 🥀

[wary lichen]

Enough for a raid if your burst isn't insanely short I think

[random plume]

Atleast give us potion merchants in buff rooms

[nova bison]

doubling down on this shit is so funny

"we added a node that buffs life steal and health regen" 🗿

'this archetype uses its health bar as a resource and we're thinking it shouldnt be self sufficient'

*heavy backlash
"this thread is actually for feedback on OUR idea and no we are not cancelling it"

[random plume]

Make intoxicating blood give u +HPR based on killed/hit enemies

so thaumatic would benefit u when u go low

[rich night]

Yeah,this would fix the problem and shouldnt cost much dev time, go ahead

[random plume]

Im trying my best to make thaum good but for meele its placement sucks, for spells its idea sucks ..

[rich night]

Bottom of tree 2AP lol

[random plume]

If it wasnt locked behind a cannon fodder eliminator (blust) I would consider taking it

as meele, but now I not only waste ap

but need to build a lot of -SD so blust (that I paid 2ap for) would be useless

[rich night]

Nah, just go chase orphion for the ls

Yeah, placement just sucks tho, only reason why i think they would make it so low is bcs of bigmac

Idk i feel like after this changes fallen wont have any reward ngl, you will lack dmg in the long run

[random plume]

damage adjustments were fine

after shout nerf so ET weapons sit in good spot now

sustain will always be the issue

I legitimetly mixed in undying in my build with thaum

turns out HPR is just too slow to make reasonable difference

only vlow hp bbaths can use it

[true iris]

Just build mana with fallen its so shrimple

[rich night]

5sec vro...

[rich night]

and yr overall dps is tied to yr sustain

[versed orbit]

Don't need em if noone plays fallen tho

Oh wait, discord lied

[versed orbit]

Was replying to this message.

Oh wait, they doubled down? No more fallen? Dam, I liked it

[wary lichen]

They aren't even giving us another option it's so obvious lifesteal is not working 😭

[true iris]

Just pot its like consuing up before wars

[wary lichen]

Cursed alchemist users fucked once again.

A little consumable to help me defeat the raid boss 🥺

[true iris]

Maybe so but gambits add to the challenge of raids its not meant to be free everyday

U can also just not take the gambit it's free to do so

[wary lichen]

It's not free when my cost per aspect goes up due to rune prices..

[true iris]

Not to mention 15% of players are lightbenders so there's a good likely hood u will run into someone to help heal

And 12% acolyte

[wary lichen]

Hopefully it's 25 or 35 after this patch

[true iris]

How does this effect rune prices what

[wary lichen]

More raids for max aspects

More runes

[true iris]

This is just negativity bias no? Like it feels bad if it takes awhile for u to get the aspect u want but this doesn't make Runes more expense

[rich night]

atleast Anemic's Gambit will b free next patch for fallen

[random plume]

fr

[nova bison]

simply remove blood pact and make fallen build negative hpr to gain the bonus

[random plume]

Arcanist but ret... with no fun and even worse self sustain

[ivory zenith]

ultimate final fallen evolution, you're being punished by picking the class

[random plume]

Calm blow: decrease your damage by 1% for every 1% of health missing

[versed orbit]

idea for fallen: make it /ban anyone who plays it

Oh right what am I saying. You're not gonna listen anyway

[wicked acorn]

to be fair after the backlash of the previous fallen changes they made the abomination that is intox blood rn

which was only supposed to be a temp fix and people just ended up getting used to it

i would just chill out for now i’m sure fallen will be fine

[random plume]

It will be fine as a supplement to Paladin

Its all about Paladin now 🔥

"Pure" Fallen feels unplayable without rally currently

Which costs a lot of DPS to take ;-;

[wicked acorn]

meh it felt fine to me

but these changes are mostly just nerfing anyone without max aspects tomes and optimized setups

get grinding those heff tomes i suppose

[true iris]

#killthepoor

[thorn rapids]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1030196507703513108/1386240415883202601/image0_1.gif

[true iris]

#killyou

[thorn rapids]

You?

[true iris]

I was shot in the back alleys of detlas

[thorn rapids]

Me!!!

[versed orbit]

If by "fine" you mean fallen stopped being even remotely viable as DPS - then ye, it's fine.

Anyways, started leveling archer a bit for that sweet 400k DPS with no drawbacks

[wicked acorn]

is 500k peak not good enough for you or what

[versed orbit]

where tf do u get 500k peak

I havent seen a single fallen hit 300k consistently after the update

[wicked acorn]

health shown to show i am not bloodlusting

hero as well

[versed orbit]

wth is dat build even

[wicked acorn]

Im gatekeeping ❤️

[versed orbit]

also how long does it take to regen back to 100% after corrupted?

[wicked acorn]

i mean i get like 10.8k back pretty consistently

stuff isnt' optimized since im not on live and i dont have max exhil aspect

[versed orbit]

how long does it take?

[wicked acorn]

however long it takes me to press the 2 key to swap off hero

im p sure if i get some better gear and crafteds i just get the full health bar back once i ship it to live

[versed orbit]

ah

[wicked acorn]

so idk what people are complaining about fuckass hero will never die

[versed orbit]

Okay, good to know there is a cance for fallen to live then

altho if it takes max aspects

Im not gonna be able to run it in the next 6 months or so

[wicked acorn]

it takes 1 maxed legendary aspect 😭

[versed orbit]

still

its like 200 raids if not more isnt it?

[wicked acorn]

idk

even if not i think you can cope with some more stupid crafts

[versed orbit]

Oh well either way Id rather not have fallen killed in an alleyway by the update. Just cuz 1 op build exists doesnt mean that the entire class shud be nuked

[wicked acorn]

it’s not even killed 💔💔💔💔💔💔💔

i played a lot of raids alr with it on beta and it felt mostly fine

[versed orbit]

If I had beta Id like to see my current build get above 150k dps

and not be nuked by a slight breeze out of corrupted

[wicked acorn]

😭?

[versed orbit]

Well, since the CT clearly doesnt care about any feedback here, Ill just have to wait for someone in Blues build to make smth.
Hopefully even more broken than current fallen so we can fuck over CT's expectations.
They clearly dont like DPS and just want everyone to run tanks and tickle bosses to death

[wicked acorn]

this probably why your build ain’t surviving bro

blues builds 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[versed orbit]

well Im sorry, I dont know every item in the game and wanna have fun.

[wicked acorn]

you don’t have to know every item in the game but when you complain about a change while making no effort to alter your build it’s just crazy

[slim crypt]

pretty sure they want to remove the heff tomes

source: https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1398214093277630514

[versed orbit]

So, should I just quietly accept the change that to me makes no sense? (I understand wanting to nerf fallen, but the way CT does it is just bs to me)

[slim crypt]

i think it is just way overtuned with thaumic being a bad apple at first glance

[wicked acorn]

that seems like a very bad faith interpretation of what i said

did you even test anything yourself

[slim crypt]

having good faith is tough these days, cant trust anyone even with day 1s.,,.,, ts pmo

[wicked acorn]

😔✊

[versed orbit]

well this is how I interpreted it. If you meant like "you should try to change your build to fit the update" - thats obvious and I will do it, but since I dont know what items are good for what - I have to rely on other peoples builds.
Also, no, I didnt test anything myself, I only got some of my friends testing their fallen builds and their dmg and survivability is way worse now.

[wicked acorn]

that’s exactly what i meant king

[hardy orchid]

What is this Hacked Client that gives Fallen ~6 Selvs

What hack is Toggled here

[wicked acorn]

if your friends can’t get it have you considered it’s because they didn’t bother to change their builds

[versed orbit]

Also, what good faith are we talking about? With P2WYNN update being announced and CT literally ignoring this whole thread - I dont have any faith in wynncraft team (except artists, they actually seem to listen)

[wicked acorn]

past 3 days has been an echo chamber of people just flaming ct

[hardy orchid]

@wicked acorn Thoughts on the Entropy situation

[wicked acorn]

why would they listen to feedback i already gave in the first day of fallen changes

[slim crypt]

it literally says hich.gg bud

[hardy orchid]

Is it ratted

[wicked acorn]

they accomplished their goal of making rift not depend on lach! by making it so shit you might as well save your sp

[versed orbit]

mostly deserved imo, what did they expect? This update is 80% shit.

[slim crypt]

your pc will flag it as a trojan but it is nothing big

[wicked acorn]

because you and your friends couldn’t think of a solution? 😭

[slim crypt]

bbath is the way

[wicked acorn]

hero is literally fine

i tried hero, i tried alka (not melee), i tried bbath, all 3 felt like fine

gambits too shit for me to try idol that day so i didn’t bother

[versed orbit]

Im not talking about Fallen here. This update as a whole

[wicked acorn]

why are you getting mad at ct for the p2w stuff they’re not in control of it

[versed orbit]

actually fair, forgot abt that

well, Im still mad about them just ignoring feedback on balancing things.

[wicked acorn]

leo has been pretty responsive

[versed orbit]

and we still got the hpr node instead of literally anything else.

[wicked acorn]

maybe not as of late since the thread devolved but like when you give actual feedback and not ts sucks and is unplayable it’s a little better

thaumic isn’t even that bad as a node to be honest it’s just a little ass to build for

and actually use

[slim crypt]

can thaumic be a constant rate of hpr instead of burst tick?

[wicked acorn]

ngl they do need to walk that shit back 😭

[hardy orchid]

I think tangible opinions on balance is vastly more valuable than wishy washy monetization debates based on perspectives from other live services yet only tangentially related to the implementation in this game largely due to the latter being coopted by midwits who get their opinions from gaming youtubers that most likely have not interacted with the endgame.

[versed orbit]

It wouldn't be just "this sucks" if they actaully did a thing about it. People proposed different solutions and told CT that hpr and ls is a delusional way to regen on fallen. All that has been ignored.

[wicked acorn]

i mean it’s beta 😭 changes are nowhere near set in stone

[versed orbit]

Well, either way.
Since CT doesnt care about this thread and fallen will probs rise back out the grave after some time - Id rather save my nerves and leave. Panda, thanks for giving me hope

[slim crypt]

they do care they just want valid feedback

[hardy orchid]

anime ass dialogue

[wicked acorn]

😭

i mean hero is probably fine if you just slap some heff on it i’m not even gonna lie

it does 100% suck that you’re forced into stacking heff on upperscream though

[true iris]

The answer lies in groot accessories

Use symbiont and atavastic noob..

[wicked acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/urethra-gif-27455842

[random plume]

Anyone got good recipes for heff accs?

we gonna be switching from -mr / +sd to +Heff 🔥

[slim crypt]

symbiont

[wicked acorn]

idt there are any

[random plume]

Oh damn..

[carmine nebula]

all of the crafted heff accessories are really bad

[random plume]

are regular accs with heff better fr?

[slim crypt]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter/#48n8n8n8n8n8n0d81

Ring Lv. 103-105 (3✫, 3✫)
[Regretless Talisman | Regretless Talisman
Regretless Talisman | Regretless Talisman
Regretless Talisman | Regretless Talisman]

[random plume]

oh god..

[wicked acorn]

i think you just use pain cycle and call it a day 😭

[carmine nebula]

1.6x on 1

[random plume]

Instead of chain rule ;-;

[slim crypt]

yeah i realised

[wicked acorn]

on what

[slim crypt]

isnt this just quetz/warp lb solution again?

[wicked acorn]

bbgen is kinda cooked

i ain’t even gonna lie

[random plume]

;-; ..

[slim crypt]

imma be real watch IMs gonna nuke pain cycle damage id and heff after this

[wicked acorn]

idk i had a bunch of builds and shit saved from when they nuked fallen harder than this time

u just gotta keep a stockpile of potential builds atp 😭😭😭😭

[random plume]

How much Heff u need to get enough healing from both intoxicating and exhilarate max values?

including that miserable aspect that gives slightly more healing to exhilarate

[deep pagoda]

you need like 33% I think

[wicked acorn]

depends since it depends how much intox you’re storing up

[random plume]

full

[deep pagoda]

if you have max intox stored up

[random plume]

I can keep the burst for 16s to get full of it if needed 💀

[deep pagoda]

I would go 40% to be safe, which is pcycle + max heff tomes

[wicked acorn]

75*1.33 =99.75

[deep pagoda]

I really don't know what I'm going to do with genbath after this update lol

[random plume]

Ye im gonna just run heff accs for the sake of it

[deep pagoda]

it's almost impossible to slap heff

[random plume]

with tomes

[wicked acorn]

is heff tomes 8 or 9

[deep pagoda]

9 + 9 + 7 I believe

[random plume]

ye

[deep pagoda]

2 mythic heff tomes and 1 lr tome

I mean honestly genbath is still recoverable as long as you use heff crafted boots

[wicked acorn]

surely you drop cr

ws is way too important and cr is honestly not that important

yeah you sustain longer but you already sustain for so long

[deep pagoda]

got this whole backlog of builds in case shit gets nerfed 😂

unfortunately I have to update all of it now

[wicked acorn]

plus you can reinvest that 25 str into like int to recoup some of the costs

[wicked acorn]

i have like 8 different builds for bbath alone 😭😭😭

[deep pagoda]

I didn't save any upperscream or bashcut bbath builds bc I never thought they'd be worth using

[wicked acorn]

i mean i just straight force upperbash every raid

i do not care 🔥

[slim crypt]

shredder club upperscream was not real

[wicked acorn]

hear me out.. clerical

[deep pagoda]

need chain rule

[slim crypt]

@wicked acorn do you know if boats are still placable in raids now

[wicked acorn]

for what king

put that 25 str in int and slap on xebec

it’s the same costs

[deep pagoda]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter/#4GmWnSdmlSdedGc81

Boots Lv. 103-105 (3✫, 3✫)
[Corrupted Bracken | Negative Rafflesia
Plasteel Plating | Red Scale
Plasteel Plating | Familiar Essence ]

you could use this shit I guess

slightly better than clerical 🗿

[slim crypt]

yeah pain cycle is the way

[wicked acorn]

😭

[slim crypt]

this aint happening 😔

[wicked acorn]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/item/#Solum

[slim crypt]

also try algainate dressing

[wicked acorn]

just use this dawg

[rich night]

Played w anemic just to see how no healing fallen is and it was 29pots for nol so ig they can remove intox 🤷‍♂️

This on live cuz im only vip+

[random plume]

I want to see all those players with just warrior class leveled up

[slim crypt]

holy ragabait

[random plume]

Forced to play bigmac to be useful in any capacity✨

[rich night]

Thats me... im only 1month old to this game 🥀

[rich night]

I tried pain cycle and was losing 150k dps

I think ill just go with no healing 🤷‍♀️ Ill chug em pots

[wicked acorn]

there is just no way 😭

sagi is not that much better dawg

[ashen mist]

I mean I kind of actually think the idea is cool but the execution is absolutely awful
here are some examples

1. you currently have to go so out of your way to build hpr and life steal that it just doesn't work
   compared to mana regen/mana steal you can get relatively easily

2. no abilities on fallen work with life steal or health regen
   simple as that, if there were potentially some abilities on fallen that could proc life steal this ability would actually be quite decent

3. why does it cost 2 AP? its just extremely weak...

these are just some ideas that came to mind because I don't want to write a whole essay but I have heard some other reasons for why it doesn't work as well

[wary lichen]

Is this with tomes

[rich night]

You forgot that u need insane amounts of ls or hpr or its just slow as beans

[rich night]

This the ones i used, i combo'd 20times on each

Ill try again later, woke up for anni and after anni im back to bed

[ashen mist]

yeah its just bad...

[ivory zenith]

I guess the message here is get bloodbath

[rich night]

it would still b shit to use the ls on it, but bbath still good bcs its high duration burst w the generalist build

[ivory zenith]

yeah but you'd probably fair better than other spear with that node

[rich night]

The bar is very low...

[ivory zenith]

-# I know...

[wicked acorn]

do not try using bloodbath with it 😭

you do not heal nearly enough and most bloodbath builds are generalist (can't get thaumic) and etw

you will want to kill yourself trying to use thaumic as etw

[ivory zenith]

Ok but then what else am I supposed to use this node with Lol

[wicked acorn]

only raid it worked alr for me in was tcc but i mean the boss doesnt fuckin move

uhhhh wait for a rework

[ivory zenith]

Exactly LOL

I think this node will be fantastic on things like monk with huge Regen (if you have that for some reason) but on the second hand, 2 AP for this doesn't feel like it's gonna work out

[wicked acorn]

im ngl

i played bmonk big mac yesterday and i was healing my entire health bar in 1 hpr tick

this node genuinely needs to be removed

literally did not hav e to care what spells i was doing

i just hit whatever i wanted and then healed 23k in one tick

[carmine nebula]

we love nodes that basically only benefit one specific build

[wicked acorn]

to be fair i dont think it was meant to benefit big mac which is why its hidden under pressure but like

i was wondering what would happen if i just said fuck it didnt care about cycling took generalist and pressure anyways and then just played exactly how big mac plays but now its bashscream

and i mean it worked, you have absolutely zero utility but it was indeed doing something

[carmine nebula]

now im wondering how it does with eotb + generalist cycling, I got some decent numbers (scarily close to tcrack surf) using the standard non-crafted big mac but that doesn't proc bpact on the generalist spell

[rich night]

Yeah, with bigmac u can heal 20k on hpr ticks...

[rich night]

Oh damn, u were doing 23k, when i saw my friend, he was only doing 20k per tick

But i mean, its w.e its the whole bar regardless

[rich night]

CT didnt brain it hard enough fr

[slim crypt]

you should try aux capacti necklace with thunder powder special

[wicked acorn]

Genius

surely the bloodbath lifesteal buff will help once I take off my delirium

[ashen mist]

😭

[ivory zenith]

I fucking called it, paladins are going to reach this node

[wicked acorn]

i mean its not paladin anymore

[ivory zenith]

I mean almost 90% of bigmac is the gears

[random plume]

pain cycle fallen being real

[rich night]

Eh, i kinda refuse to play w ls, and i dont wanna lose dmg so ill just goble potions

[random plume]

I still think that low HP bbath will be the most viable option

[rich night]

Yeah, just spent all my savings on a bbath(12stx)

[random plume]

get hpr offhand and thaum so u can heal that small gap

Im unfortunate to have 95% hp bbath 💀

[rich night]

mines 50% so its -1.3k hp compared to yrs i thinkk

[random plume]

that means u will have to heal less than me ✨

[rich night]

Yeah but im also not slotting thaum

2 ap 🥀

Anyways, u think its better if the numbers r above or inside the bar 🤔

[random plume]

Inside looks cooler, above seems more practical

[random plume]

I got my build just with 2ap left so I can take it but then I dont have low hp bbath

I would need to basicly get a crafted -HP acc for it to be viable (funny)

[rich night]

Generalist bbath?