Official Fallen feedback thread for Wardrobe Wonders update

[abstract tiger]

So like wfa spring as support or smth ig lol

[granite oasis]

U wanna play support archer play Ignis, spring isn't supposed to be a support bow

[abstract tiger]

Hey not my words

[fleet ibex]

Yeah that change was insane LMAO

[random plume]

Rebalance fallen and make new creative Aspects:
Break fallen and make the new Aspects small fixes for it:

[flat kestrel]

hero’s dps is still decent at least for loot runs but the healing is so bad you cannot sustain it at all without pots or without taking the greed major id

I’m not surprised they nerfed hero again but the rest of the fallen changes were really disappointing to see

[random plume]

Having fallen walled with T3 fabled bpact aspect Is even worse than having it with T1 mythic

Definetly nice to see u need to grind T3 to still get worse results than u did with old T1 mythic

[wicked acorn]

i agree with this but im pretty sure they did it so paladin bpact players can go their newly buffed mythic aspect

[random plume]

Another thing - talking about armour breaker but still keeping it a regular damage buff that can be overridden and made abundant by fortitude If you want the armour breaker to feel good once again, make it function like it used to with res shredding.

With res shredd being personal buff rather than team's but still being stackable on top of other buffs it would justify spending 2 AP for 4s of something that feels like a waste of ap.

So far we only observed severe damage and sustain nerfs, so what we got buffed exactly?

[runic nacelle]

I just realized

Actual paladin agenda

[random plume]

fr

[wicked acorn]

i mean honestly i don’t think it’s that crazy

silly that paladin is forced to take fallen aspect just because theirs is so shit

[runic nacelle]

Idk man idk how i feel about the mythic not having the cost

[runic nacelle]

Didnt the paladin aspect get changed

[runic nacelle]

Just feels worse for people who dont raid as much

[wicked acorn]

the mythic feels like a very big nothing burger for sure

[wicked acorn]

yeah it got -5% ssurge req for uppercut on t2

which is like… why didn’t they just make that a fabled aspect and keep the fallen one the same

[runic nacelle]

T1 fallen is actually so terrible

[wicked acorn]

since fallen bpact sustain affects the entire kit and ssurge proccing 3/4/5% earlier changes very little

[wicked acorn]

t3 fallen feels like a fabled aspect

all you get for it is like… damage on bpact and it’s like not super significant

the bloodlust part is just completely worthless

difference between full bloodlust t3 and no aspect is like 80k which like…

hot take but blood pact cost should not be tied to aspects

your class’s entire identity is tied to how good your blood pact cost is that’s like kind of absurd

i don’t think a single aspect has as much of an impact on playability of an archetype as fallen blood pact aspect

[runic nacelle]

Type shi

[wicked acorn]

it only kind of made sense on a mythic aspect since mythics at supposed to be powerful but like…

t3 fabled being required to have what you used to feels rather bad

[runic nacelle]

Put it back on the mythiv

Put the bloodlust shit on the fabled

[wicked acorn]

dawg just remove that shit and add it to the base kit 💔💔💔💔💔

fuck it split it between bpact and hemorrhage for all i care but it’s so ass telling people Yeah you can’t play this class because you don’t have the aspect

[runic nacelle]

Or that

[thorn rapids]

Ngl it was kinda lame for the mythic to just be 2x blood pact effect

[thorn rapids]

The idea is that aspects make you stronger

[runic nacelle]

Its cruical to the class it shouldnt be regulated to a fabled

Also just made everything worse for people who dont raid like a said

[wicked acorn]

yeah and now it’s extra damage only

[thorn rapids]

Okay

[random plume]

If a mythic work properly, why change it? It didnt give 2x the same effect, could have changed the corrupted or enraged blow scaling with that if you felt like it.

[wicked acorn]

so much cooler

bloodlust doesn’t feel any better with it, tier 3 for 80k damage wow

[random plume]

Oh damn, I will definetly feel that higher dmg, like once in a lifetime since im gonna get b-slapped after once cycle anyway with current sustain

[wicked acorn]

i imagine the blood pact effect itself is rather impactful but the mythic aspect is literally 13% more damage… really? 😭

[random plume]

getting overhealed with intoxicating made it actually useful to have higher hp offhands to spend that extra HP on charges and stuff, now? not even gonna start the corrupted back with full hp

[wicked acorn]

this tier 3 btw

[wicked acorn]

aspects should make you stronger not gatekeep the class entirely

[random plume]

Its literally punishing to play the archetype properly

[runic nacelle]

Type shi

[thorn rapids]

It doesnt gatekeep anything

[wicked acorn]

it does

fallen in raids without aspect is rather terrible to play

[random plume]

I think they only tested the effectiveness on combat dummies and called it a day. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Not to mention that taking hits as fallen will punish you even more

for no reward actually since dps is inferior anyway

[thorn rapids]

You can just build lower spellcosts?

[runic nacelle]

Ct ragebaiting in a feedback post gg

[random plume]

If Chain Rule is not enough, nothing will be

unless Im missing something

[runic nacelle]

Not even some random one the official one

[wicked acorn]

im already maxing out my spellcosts thru atree and also my build

u want me to like put on chain rule emage xebec or something

[random plume]

Should we even build low spellcosts? new aspect seems to actually encourage the opposite

[carmine nebula]

okay let me just make a comparison for how necessary the aspect is:
you have haemorrhage bpact cost at .25%
aspect'd cost is .17%
.25%/.17% is -32% cost
that is MORE than transcendence in terms of sustain, its absolutely insane

[runic nacelle]

^^

rs please change this

[thorn rapids]

Aspect is 0.2??

-0.05

[carmine nebula]

i meant live at -8%

[thorn rapids]

Live is -0.05%

[carmine nebula]

nvm i messed up numbers but still

-20% cost is just so much value that you need to have it

[thorn rapids]

Hm

[carmine nebula]

its why reve at -36% for scream (2/3 spells on cycle) or smth is insanely high value for hero upperscream

[runic nacelle]

If you dont want to move it to base tree atleast swap the health cost reduction and the bloodlust damage

[slim crypt]

and it is also why it is so expensive and so hard to roll a good one

sort of balance it out for causal players who got their hands on that build ngl

[forest jewel]

the problem with that isn't really the reve -% 4th cost, the problem is that warrior's 4th spell is so much better/more spammable than all the other classes (air shout moment)

[wicked acorn]

it’s like so many things about fallen is balanced around having this aspect, down to how intoxicating blood works, how sustaining even interacts with corrupt

if there was an aspect for any other class that basically said “here’s 20% more sustain” (mr, costs, literally everything, and you werent taking it it would be really silly

[thorn rapids]

I see it but ngl i am confused why it was never brought up before (in relation to the mythic( and just now

[wicked acorn]

because people don’t play fallen without the mythic aspect

or if they do it’s in like lootruns or whatever where the stakes are rather low

[thorn rapids]

They cam just use this one then?

Well nvm im kinda cooked rn

[runic nacelle]

Yes but you only need tier 1 lol

[wicked acorn]

before you needed one single mythic aspect to get the value of 85 of the current one 😭😭💔💔

[runic nacelle]

You need to get the mythic aspect once

So it wasnt that big of an issue

[thorn rapids]

85?

[wicked acorn]

tier 3

[runic nacelle]

To max a fabled aspect

[wicked acorn]

1 + 14 + 60

[runic nacelle]

Quick maths

[wicked acorn]

that’s sooooo cooked like im ngl

[thorn rapids]

Ah i thought you meant like85 different apsects lol

[runic nacelle]

I think you can see the issue now

[thorn rapids]

Could be solved by shifting more into t2 tbf

[wicked acorn]

.35/.45/.5 was my suggestion but like

[runic nacelle]

Orrr swap bloodlust on mythic with the health cost reduction on the fabled

[wicked acorn]

this change is entirely to support paladin mythic aspect no? so it’s kind of weird both paladin and fallen eating shit for it

or is it to let super super burst exist by making it not have to take bp cost

because idk super super burst of like 3 seconds will not be very useful u just a glorified bomb

[runic nacelle]

Why is fallen suffering so another archetype can benefit from its own ability 😭

[wicked acorn]

-surge cost and an extra surge generation aspect would be too much im guessing

so you move -surge onto paladin mythic and now you don’t have that issue

[runic nacelle]

Well wouldnt it make sense if having to use the fallen aspect is the tradeoff for using bpact or sum

[wicked acorn]

idk it’s just my theory but like also blood pact generates holy power so if you’re using bp + surge you don’t actually need that -surge cost

so i don’t really understand this even for palafallen

[runic nacelle]

Paladin agenda

Let me put my tinfoil hat on

[wicked acorn]

like 2 screams and an upper already worked completely fine and you would get 100% surge uptime on palafallen

and big mac generates it by just face tanking everything

obviously this is just speculation but like idk

[runic nacelle]

Yeah its just like i dont think paladin should get the -surge cost and leech the bpact cost

[soft carbon]

Is it just me or is this thread really hard to find?? We have like 2 or 3 other Fallen threads even though this is the official one??

[wicked acorn]

i should probably try palafallen this patch but i really do not like upperscream

[wicked acorn]

i dont mind it to be honest

[runic nacelle]

Idk man

[wicked acorn]

i think palafallen is fine for the nooba

[runic nacelle]

Feels like there should be a tradeoff 🤷

[wicked acorn]

there is

[runic nacelle]

What

[wicked acorn]

palafallen has a lot less damage and 10 second corrupt time

it’s honestly pretty balanced and it felt really interesting balancing survivability and damage

[runic nacelle]

You also get pretty insane survivability tho

[wicked acorn]

kind of

i mean you get mantles

[runic nacelle]

Idk my point is pala gets -surge cost now and it doesnt need to use the fallen aspect anymore to leech the healthcost reduction

[wicked acorn]

i believe this is to further reduce the need of comet and fireworks for surge generation

[runic nacelle]

I mean im happy that the pala aspect is not useless anymore

[runic nacelle]

You still need fireworks from what i heard lol

[wicked acorn]

yeah but fireworks is free

comet is rather not free

[wicked acorn]

also i don’t think it actually does anything other than make it reliant on t2 which is like… also cooked

fallen gatekept first by mythic aspect and now by bp aspect

[runic nacelle]

Still think the cost should go back to the mythic aspect so you only need to grind 1

[wicked acorn]

if aspects are supposed to give you such insane power then like why are some aspects like game breaking and required and others just complete shit, i thought the point of aspects was to bolster and enable the kit, not make it playable

i mean i guess it’s not unplayable but when your spells are costing 8% of your health (32 mana spell) it becomes rather hard to play

^ and if burst is supposed to be supported it means you are ideally going to be taking axe kick and axe kick builds often have literal 34 mana uppercuts

8% of your health PER uppercut and your cycle is typically upper upper bash

axe kick is genuinely such a terrible ability i think it needs a rework

50% more mana (uppercut builds usually take 1 or 2 -5 upper cost nodes) for a less than 40% increase on the base hit is a joke

[carmine nebula]

its for genbait builds!

[wicked acorn]

💔💔💔

[wicked acorn]

guys my build works so well in tcc

tbh generalist isn’t bad i’m just a hater 💔💔

but it is just basically coping upperscream on bbath

[random plume]

Anyone tested if its better to go generalist(upper cancel) or upper upper bash for bbath?

Both for damage and "sustain"

with new aspects

[wicked acorn]

i would test it but the only raids there’s players for are notg and tna. notg might be most useless raid oat to test anything on and tna doesn’t work half the time

also without the health sustain changes there is no real point testing things

[random plume]

What about our most accurate volunteer (dummy)

yea true

[wicked acorn]

like i can see the damage but my build isn’t made for how it’s going to be so any damage numbers and sustain etc is completely useless

[wicked acorn]

i played a bunch of raids with thaumic and the first thing i noticed is that bloodlust and thaumic are just completely incompatible -- on dummy its not so bad with my trio mythic build of crabs bbath and apoc, but the moment you get into a real experience where your bloodlust is one shotting trash mobs thaumic immediately becomes so cooked. like that 5 second window where you're supposed to be meleeing things is automatically exploded when you have absolutely nothing to hit

i dont imagine there is anything you can actually do (numbers, changing it to hp% on hit) that would alleviate this issue, as this is a fundamental issue with necessitating mobs to be alive AFTER you do the spell where you turn into an aoe killing machine then pop out and do another spell with aoe killing effects

(not to mention this is like a build specific to a bbath rolled like this)

also side note AB feels completely horrible -- builds do so little damage without it, you feel like you have to take it (turns out that 30% is really impactful when you have 115% damage boost). which then means that every build also requires you to play like this 1 minute clip of me playing... just imagine this in content where the enemy fights back

also sorry in advance the video is 150 megabytes

[carmine nebula]

holy shit that damage dealt over time 😭

[wicked acorn]

its um

it exists for sure

"just build sustain" when you have to balance life steal and reqs and walk speed to make use of your lifesteal so you dont have to use your health to charge

also thaumic seems to bug when you switch weapons perhaps this is intentional (it recalculates based on max hp) but its very clunky and strange since its very normal to switch off weapons on fallen
you can see this happening at 0:32 when i press and hold tab

drops to 47%

[austere zenith]

Damn that’s awful

[wicked acorn]

Its um Not good for sure

[prime temple]

hmmmm
i suspect that it's because of abilities getting reloaded
might not be fixable, i'll ask tho
btw, 2 questions for you: what would you say it the highest realistic sustain corruption duration in a fight? and what corrupted duration would you say would feel good in a fight when doing burst?

[fleet ibex]

this is so sad man

[wicked acorn]

ive sustained for like 30+ seconds on idol fallen, but thats mostly because you have to cycle uppercut scream and charge to not get smacked (0 ws build)

unironically the corrupted duration that feels best when doing burst is as high as you can get it

but honestly current armor breaker feels great

i really like my current build where i'm sustaining for 12-13 seconds

[prime temple]

as burst, while corrupted?

[wicked acorn]

yeah on 0 mana

[prime temple]

hmhmm
i think this should be workable then (looking at several possible tweaks and trying to figure out if there's at least one that hits the spot 🫠 )
-# but one actually might with this info, since it relies on higher corrupted durations
ty, this really helps

[pseudo tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/squishy-gif-18034225825605797447

[wicked acorn]

@prime temple is this intended where fallen aspect gives you less damage for having it 😭

my weapon of choice btw

uppercuts with t3 aspect give 1713/1714 and without it always gets 1888/1889

[prime temple]

tf ;-;
lemme check
oh btw thaum being reset in the earlier video seems to be specifically apoc, but im not sure why

[wicked acorn]

probably something to do with -health main hand switching to positive health offhand

[prime temple]

hmm could be

[wicked acorn]

also i have learned that i cannot place dummies anymore after killing all 4 on my island

which is why theres a new background

looks like the npcs are completely dead

[prime temple]

yup, modifications to max health is what does it

[prime temple]

yup
what the actual fuck
forwarding

[wicked acorn]

goodbye all my dummies i can no longer test on my home island 😭

[prime temple]

ok yeah found the bug
hope we get a patch soon

OOMG
NO WONDER DMG IS SHIT FOR EVERYONE

bruhhhhhhhhhh

[pseudo tangle]

Wait what.

[wicked acorn]

😭😭😭😭 i was testing palafallen paladin aspect vs fallen aspect and i was like why is this like just straight up better

[prime temple]

fallen damage is ~20% lower than what it's supposed to be if you're running t2 or t3 mythic aspect

[wicked acorn]

can u also make sure the patch includes nol fix and tna void matter room fix so i can test on a boss that actually fights back 💔

[prime temple]

tna is already reported, forwarded nol
-# ofc it was nol that broke completely -_-

[slim crypt]

gg

[wicked acorn]

the nol not starting bug just sort of reappears every like patch or two

truly wonderful

[tulip olive]

smart move

[dull cliff]

can you guys bandaid fix fallen by making intox cap out at 50% and exhil restore 50%

and then properly rework it for next patch

please

[rich night]

Armour Breaker isnt worth slotting at 4sec imo, its lower % than other more consistent teamwide str buffs

[wicked acorn]

it kinda is if you don’t have a team

but yeah it definitely like sucks lol

ab at 20% for 8 seconds felt so much better than this

[random plume]

fr

they should cut its cooldown if thats how we approach the fallen

[wicked acorn]

if you use it how it’s intended it just feels like those builds have more enraging blow cap

[random plume]

or make entering corrupt reset it so its once per corrupt use

[wicked acorn]

idk i guess that’s the point

[random plume]

Was any damage ability nerfed so far on fallen tree?

Ignore the armour breaker since we are now encouraged to be in and out corrupt for about the same time which is a huge L for me since it feels like you are a dead weight more often

[wary lichen]

Idk if this was said before but if lifesteal is still the designated way to play fallen can we get some nodes like thaumic to give additional attack range? I personally feel with max aspect the range is still not appropriate to have warrior need to lifesteal and otherwise it's completely unusable without the aspect

[runic nacelle]

Give luster to fallen problem solved

[wary lichen]

im not getting luster to sustain my spell build dawgg 😭

[rich night]

I thought they were balancing for teamcontent

[runic nacelle]

Its for the attack range u donut

[wary lichen]

oh giving luster as a node to fallen oops

[runic nacelle]

Yes man

Also like add actually good ls items thanks

[wary lichen]

yeah that'd probably be nice melee paladin will never exist anyways

[runic nacelle]

So true

[wary lichen]

lifesteal items and melee range items would make lifesteal pretty usable on warrior

but every other class has either range or vanish so it's kind of nothing going for warrior at all to haev a lifesteal gimmick

[wicked acorn]

there’s so many aspects you need now idek

[wary lichen]

the aspect reliance of this class is genuinely insane, i thought when i first started playing original fallen was so heavy to setup as is 😭

[rich night]

ls for fallen seems stoopid game design unless they change corryupted

[wary lichen]

if fallen was on any other class i'd probably be fine with lifestealing in downtime but it just isn't making sense to me for it to be on warrior

[runic nacelle]

Get ready to grind that health reduction fabled 😀

[random plume]

Meele based combat during downtime when you shouldnt be wasting your HP, on a spellcasting glass canon is all we need

[runic nacelle]

Raid entry cost to fallen

[wicked acorn]

yoi need like
upper aspect guaranteed
fallen aspect
bash/air shout aspect

and now you want
bloodlust/warscream to make use of the buff
bpact aspect
exhil aspect
main attack range aspect

[wary lichen]

oh you cant even select attack range aspect i forgot

[runic nacelle]

Rest in peace to all my casual fallen players

[wicked acorn]

like 😭😭😭😭😭 how many more aspects do we need

[wary lichen]

too little slots 😭 this is just unplayable??

[random plume]

Uppercut and Mythic place where :-;

(Ik mythic is bugged, but once its fixed)

[wary lichen]

unless im getting an 11 foot pole typa upgrade in the nodes to actually hit orphion and nameless anomaly it is hp potion class 🥀

[wicked acorn]

idk thaumic feels so genuinely unusable in real content

it was like kind of stupid in my dummy tests but like holy hell in real content it felt so unusable

[wary lichen]

honestly other than range warrior needs spread to make this work also

[wicked acorn]

it was only giving me value when i was in boss

[rich night]

Asking for ls on fallen is also not taking in consideration the items available tbh

[wicked acorn]

like i was doing tcc and in platform room i would kill the mini bosses and genuinely have to stand there trying to dodge the soarer to melee it for health

[runic nacelle]

Apparently it was tested in real content

“Tested”

[wary lichen]

no items to support lifesteal gimmick, no in class/realistic AT support, it's kinda dead on arrival

[rich night]

Yeah, agree

[wicked acorn]

in tcc golem room i spent like 20 seconds and 3 health pots trying to get my health back because to the mobs kept hitting me and i kept losing all my progress

[rich night]

Yes, its just thrown in there bcs they wantted it to change

[wicked acorn]

and in 3rd room every time i’d finish a combat challenge there was absolutely nothing for me to lifesteal off of

so i just had to pot

so like why didn’t i just fucking pot in the first place

[rich night]

I do hope they reconsider this stuff

[barren sonnet]

update bad i want old fallen back

[rich night]

Also 2 of the new aspects r useless for fallen

[rich night]

Why even spend time coding em

[wicked acorn]

idk next time i should record my gameplay

[barren sonnet]

fallen needs to heal above 100% of the health you lose depending on how many mobs you hit or whatever it was before

[wicked acorn]

i have it on a replay mod thing so i might just export it

[wary lichen]

i'd love to see someone try to realistically lifesteal sustain off orphion

[barren sonnet]

fallen is unplayable without sustain

[rich night]

LMAO

[wicked acorn]

i’ll try once nol is playable

[random plume]

Im wondering why they keep making a fun to play class, with its own unique gimmick worse to play every single update, and expect us to patch it up with aspects, in a non-competetive (they even removed individual leaderboards in raids) game that focuses mostly on PVE team content, making fallen both worse for people using it and having it as a party member. Whats the point exactly?

[wary lichen]

good luck twin ✌️

[abstract tiger]

This 100% lmao the idea isn’t even that bad but you just can’t pull it off

[wicked acorn]

it doesn’t work in practice

[barren sonnet]

tbh make potions stack infinite on fallen then it would work

[wicked acorn]

corrupt makes you an aoe killing machine and once you’ve killed everything you’re expected to lifesteal off of things

it’s just such a weird expectation

[random plume]

If they wanted to get rid of "out-of-harm free card" of making you insta heal with corrupt they should have made all the accumulated healing act as 3-5s potion

thats applied 0.5s after you leave corrupted

[wicked acorn]

not to mention like how are you even supposed to get to enemies farther away from you

[random plume]

so if you were close to getting slapped because of skill issue - thats your problem.

[wary lichen]

we making negative money off the raid reward chest wit this one

[barren sonnet]

that would work better but might still be too slow idk

[random plume]

the more heal you accumulate the faster it would be

[wary lichen]

this is like putting quetzalcoatl lifesteal on a warrior item it just wouldnt do as well

[barren sonnet]

oh yea that would probably work

[random plume]

but definetly not instant

Like yeah healing over 5s from idk accumulated 15k hp is faster than accumulated 10k since you get more healing per tick

[wicked acorn]

if you play 0 mana you’re supposed to heal but i dropped literally all my sustain gear pieces so I could accomodate apoc so every charge costs like 5% of my health

[barren sonnet]

Capping healing at 60% just makes you depend on a limited suppy of healing potions

[wicked acorn]

not to mention they’re supposed to reward you for playing full burst so I also chose to drop my sustain gear pieces

[wary lichen]

you will build lifesteal walkspeed to actually reach your target and you will love it

[wicked acorn]

35 with aspect!!!!!!!!!!

[random plume]

We are supposed to be useful in raids while they expect us to use potions and didnt even add potion merchant to raids

[wicked acorn]

air items for walk speed and fire item for lifesteal

[random plume]

🔥

[barren sonnet]

bru

[wicked acorn]

etwfa bloodbath is real

[wary lichen]

rainbow bbath time

[random plume]

Hero being top1 weapon again but this time bcs it actually works for walking up to your enemy

[random plume]

🔥 Rainbow Bbaths

[wicked acorn]

unironically bloodbath automatically becomes #1 fallen item with every single fallen sustain nerf

it was the only playable one in the first round of changes and it’s probably back

[wary lichen]

with how much has to change in fallen and maybe base warrior i feel like this lifesteal stuff just has to be entirely dropped it cannot be worth the effort

[random plume]

Buffing bbath is unnecessary if they make it the only fallen weapon that works

[barren sonnet]

Big brain wynncraft content team move

[random plume]

I love how that affects new players

[wicked acorn]

you just cant make something that depends on the enemy being alive after you have a whole set of abilities about killing enemies

[wary lichen]

yeah that too it just isnt going to work on trash mobs/clear rooms

[random plume]

unable to play the archetype, lets just slap a 105 requirement on bak'al s grasp so they wont feel scammed with how poorly it works.

[wicked acorn]

like intox is about hitting and killing enemies for health and then afterwards im expected to have more enemies to hit for health

[random plume]

At this point, why bother with intox, just build shit load of LS since they expect you to use that anyway

[wicked acorn]

why is the entire kit about me hitting enemies for health

[random plume]

Free 3 points to slap somewhere else

Requiring us to have top lvl ls equipment to just make the archetype work

[wary lichen]

every way of this class working just leads to an overcomplicated intox application without change in gameplay

[wicked acorn]

there is no top level ls equipment

[random plume]

I know

[wicked acorn]

there is apoc

🔥🔥

[random plume]

thats one of the issues, rework fallen sustain but add nothing to support it ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[fleet ibex]

^

[rich night]

Tell this to ct plz

[barren sonnet]

there is no sustain bru its non existant

[wicked acorn]

don’t say it’s just that

[barren sonnet]

sustain was removed in the latest update

[rich night]

Only sustain i have now is my pocket absolution 😔

Without my homie im cooked fr

[barren sonnet]

😭

[wary lichen]

i hope the main takeaway from all this is going to be no lifesteal cause this'd probably hold the beta back a full month if we got support for everything needed to make it work

[rich night]

If he dies i might as well /kill to save time

[scarlet nimbus]

Wait u get bpact dmg buff on melee?

[wary lichen]

there's a node to make u lose hp on melees i think

i assume this is to make bpact proc

lowkey 1% looks too much to me assuming tstack but wtvr

[wicked acorn]

i thought it didn’t but regardless the fact that you need it for massacre to feel good (along with losing health buffing corruption) feels so weird

[scarlet nimbus]

If bpact Procs, that’s incredibly cool

[wicked acorn]

i think massacre should just be twice as good and this ability is only to proc bpact

[scarlet nimbus]

Massacre is the same thing as before though isn’t it

[wary lichen]

0.1% would be great since you're increasing your corrupt meter with spells anyways

[wicked acorn]

then it’s barely a thing

but also 1% per main attack means that you max out at 25s of gameplay

[wary lichen]

i don't think the drawback is needed but 1% is definitely too much when you're going down a lot with spells right before

[wicked acorn]

realistically you’re corrupting down to 30-50% so that means you have 7.5 to 12.5 seconds of gameplay

[random plume]

Im not saying its just that, "one of the issues" implies there are more

I honestly feel killing Spell Fallen just to promote meele is a bad approach

[wicked acorn]

i don’t think they did anything regarding spell fallen to promote melee

[random plume]

Meele fallen can realisticly sustain

[wary lichen]

melee getting actual support didnt really do anything to spell they just gutted spell independently

[wicked acorn]

gutted both

[wicked acorn]

it’s kind of crazy when u realize that massacre itself is independent of attack speed but this one isn’t

[wary lichen]

good point

[barren sonnet]

✅

[wicked acorn]

in the 1 second you’re playing with massacre, you get 3% corrupt from massacre and 4.3% from health loss

[wary lichen]

honestly the worst part of this is pointing out you can't lifesteal after you killed everything that just makes this whole rework kind of worthless 😭

[barren sonnet]

Who even uses melee fallen? Doesnt it do like no damage

[random plume]

Anyone tested tstack alkatraz after changes ?

[barren sonnet]

unless you have like 10000 life steal

[wicked acorn]

and then if you play heavy melee (for whatever fuckin reason)
it’s 3% corrupt from massacre and 0.5% from health loss

[rich night]

Yes, both r weak bcs no items for ls

[wary lichen]

yeah but that's assuming fallen only gets to play the game at the boss

[wicked acorn]

this isnt even the problem

[barren sonnet]

idk i only use it for lootrun

[wary lichen]

and even then you can have a million lifesteal some bosses are just really hard to melee on warrior

[wicked acorn]

im literally playing a weapon that allows me to take a overstatted lifesteal item to alleviate the fact there aren’t ls items and its still really difficult to use when the mobs are dead

[random plume]

I remember playing tstack alka with basicly always 10hp and full corrupt before main attack range ID was a thing, TNA was a true definition of suffering

That thing isnt really good for meeles in general unless you get a really long range with whatever IDS you can put

but then, you would need a build that gives you everything at once

Damage, life steal, attack range, walkspeed

[wicked acorn]

heal efficiency, cost reduction

[rich night]

Will they say what the actual changes r before sending them live?

[random plume]

Oh yeah right, we should play around cost reduction when bpact encourages doing the opposite

to get max dmg boost

[wicked acorn]

armor breaker encourages the exact opposite

[random plume]

Thats also a point too

[wicked acorn]

but then enraging blow rewards you for staying above 70% corrupt for as long as possible

[random plume]

Yeah

Which currently is like idk, 1s?

[wicked acorn]

for like 1.5-2 seconds with my build that optimized the AB time

[random plume]

ah I see

[rich night]

What fallen things r confirmed to be different from the Wardrobe Wonders Patch Notes?

[wary lichen]

with AB cooldown being 11s i wish it persisted through weapon swap

[rich night]

Is it just Exhilarate? It looks like fallen has more problems w the update... Like fucked up identity now

[wary lichen]

intox capped 30%

[wicked acorn]

I think the best way to summarize my thoughts about fallen is this:
I don't know what it is I'm supposed to be doing, the Fallen changes keep suggesting different playstyles.

• On one hand I'm supposed to build more sustain to cope with the fact my blood pact aspect is worse, so I slot in -cost items, but now I'm supposed to minmax so my burst time, so I need to remove my -cost items.
• I don't like the extremely risky minigame of me lifestealing enemies so I want to maximize my corrupt time, but I can't without sacrificing my armor break time
• I'm supposed to slap on all these different aspects despite old fallen loadouts having 1-2 extra
• I'm supposed to lifesteal off enemies when I just bursted everything around me, and I can't even not bloodlust and just switch to my sustain weapon (I am not suggesting a trigger for bloodlust, just that it happens)
• I'm expected to build lifesteal (fire items), but I also need some way of moving around to enemies and dodging their attacks, I can't charge because that would cost health, so I need walk speed (air items or the one non-air item delirium giving negative lifesteal)
• I don't actually need walk speed during my burst because burst builds don't need to follow the boss/dodge as many attacks so it feels weird

to solve these issues, I made a build that has walk speed, life steal, -hp on main weapon, no costs and it not only felt pretty unsatisfactory to use I also could not come up with a lineup of gear that could even do the same task except for bloodbath/alkatraz, crusade sabatons, apocalypse

[rich night]

Would b nice to have a post about this or smthng

2 of the aspects r dented, AB is dented, healing is dented

[wary lichen]

the main patch notes have a section for fallen just CTRL+F it

[rich night]

Talking about this ones? https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/wynncraft-wardrobe-wonders-lootrun-trials-store-update-trickster-rework-more.321725/

[wary lichen]

yea

[rich night]

Gang, im asking for an update 🥀 only thing i saw that they said they will change from those patchnotes is the exhilerate, basically asking if they will change anything else, bcs 2 of the aspects and ab seem horrible

[wicked acorn]

its like day 3

[wary lichen]

i thought that was just the aspect whoops, didnt know it had changes

[random plume]

If thats the update we were waiting for all this time since they stopped regular ones then I wish they would have just used that "dev time" for Fruma

[rich night]

Yeah, fair, i dont rlly know how they operate w patches since im kinda new to the game just a bit afraid that after this beta they make changes again but insta go live w it

[wary lichen]

not like there's going back now

[random plume]

Like i get it does some things right but now they will have to use more "dev time" to fix it

[wicked acorn]

i really like that the hero beta is allowing me to test the fallen changes idk

i think its best to just be patient with how things are atp, last round of fallen changes didnt even allow anyone to test

[rich night]

Yeah, alot of it seems wasted, like monk looks weaker than before and it seems like they had the intention for the opposite

[random plume]

I went in, saw that no combination other than intox+exhil+catamaran works, and decided that my dps on that is too low to justify it.

[wary lichen]

really glad this isn't going to live for even a day, it's highkey disasterous

God forbid anyone change their build on main to accomodate these unbelievable asks

[runic nacelle]

Everyone violently riot

[rich night]

Fair, i didnt know they didnt have beta b4 for it, as i said im still kinda green to the game o.o

[wicked acorn]

the last round of fallen changes were pretty disastrous

[rich night]

People are alrd changing, no? theres good heroes going for 2.5stx

[random plume]

Lets just pray it was just a social experiment at trying to unbuff intoxicating and they will revert it

[wary lichen]

well hero going down is expected since noone gave CT any negative feedback on the hero nerf i think

so that's like 99% going through regardless of fallen living or not

[rich night]

I dont get to test it cuz im only VIP+ and my friend has very limited time

[random plume]

Movement weapon with high EHP, dodge, mobility and damage outclassing a dedicated low HP glass cannon weapon

[rich night]

If fallen dies aint no one playing hero eitherway

[random plume]

Hero died because it deserved to do so, it was just that good but now that I look at it, it was just air shout making it strong.

[barren sonnet]

smh hero nerf wasnt needed, barely does any damage anyway unless you are at like 80% corrupted bar

[rich night]

Wasnt it mostly bcs of airshout?

[wicked acorn]

yeah hero with bash upper made it do like 70% of the damage

[random plume]

Yeah but airshout was what gave you the damage in that equation there

[wary lichen]

which is exactly why revenant needs another nerf, it's ridiculous!

[rich night]

Yeah, and they bring nerf to wep, airshout and fallen as a whole at the same time...

[random plume]

hero provided everything else, thats why it was so busted to use it.

[wicked acorn]

to be fair alkatraz upperscream was also overperforming imo

[random plume]

I trully believe this fallen nerf is a result of hero being too good with fallen as it was

atleast partially *

[wary lichen]

i dont feel like they even intended it to be a direct nerf

[wicked acorn]

no one was playing bash upper at all idk why it needs to be shot as well

[wary lichen]

a nuance that doesnt really work in practice (or that well on paper) was just introduced

[wicked acorn]

i think i was literally the only person who genuinely played bash upper

[random plume]

Generalist was fun to play on bbath its sad they had to gut it but it was necessary to kill off that abomination that hero was.

[random plume]

I loved it on my alkatraz until it started to fall down due to generalist's presence

[wary lichen]

The last bash upper player in the world fighting for survival

[random plume]

Even tho i prefered 3x upper -> bash

[wicked acorn]

i think ive played like 1200 nols on bash upper only

and like 200 tnas

[random plume]

I played so many TCCs on upperbash that I lost the count

Atleast managed to get to top70 with it at the time

Idk what was next I guess since it was like before the changes that made bbath superior

more or less those changes shifted the meta from tcrack and alkatraz to bbath and hero

[wicked acorn]

bbath was never meta 💔

[random plume]

What else did u have recently

either hero, which was abomination, or bbath as a proper option

[wicked acorn]

it was only "meta" (playable) for the two weeks of fallen death

[random plume]

I still enjoyed bbath more than hero, because playing it felt more rewarding

[wicked acorn]

i played bbath, hero, idol, alkatraz

didnt really touch thrunda since you either went earth powder on it (budget bbath) or played shittier hero upperscream

[random plume]

Idol provoke was such a fun to play, I wonder if its still used on tna ?

[wicked acorn]

nah i was playing full fallen

[random plume]

idol fallen ? was that a thing

[wicked acorn]

its underground

[random plume]

outside of idk lootruns

[wicked acorn]

its like full etw and relies on charge to dodge attacks i dont think the average hero player can play it

[rich night]

I want a bbath but costs so much :/

[wicked acorn]

i should send a video of me playing it tbh maybe the atree team will walk back the changes if they see how awesome it is

[wicked acorn]

you need like 2 stats on it idk

i was running a 5 stack bbath for the longest time

[rich night]

bash and ws, no?

[wicked acorn]

you dont even need that good of either idk

bash cost is just nice and ws is just nice

[rich night]

Idk, ws on bbath seemed rll essential

[random plume]

Am I the only person who enjoys high hp and low cost bbath?

[wicked acorn]

its like ok you can cope 120 ws in tna

[abstract tiger]

For tna yeah you don’t get much ws on bb builds

[rich night]

Yeah, only like 140 w perfect rolls

Cope w speed surge 🥀

[wicked acorn]

playable

nah you can straight line with 120

you just fuck over your team though since greg will melee

idk i literally play 131 ws (tomes bring it up from 115) no half moon bash upper in tna

[rich night]

yeah 130 is fine

120 is eh for no ehp ngl

[wicked acorn]

who said i have no ehp

i run etwf

[rich night]

Idk what that is, only abreviation i know from crafting so far is eotb

[wicked acorn]

earth thunder water fire

str/dex/int/def build

[rich night]

show?

[wicked acorn]

im gatekeeping 💔

[barren sonnet]

yes i made a build for it

probably wont work now though

[wary lichen]

all yours

[wicked acorn]

no one wants to play bash upper anyways

[rich night]

I do gang 💔 Was playing bash upper alka

[true iris]

Why don't fallen players just play lightbender instead if they want healing so bad?

[random plume]

Anyone knows how bpact's "blood spend" scaling works for max damage buff?

is it based off the spell's original cost or what

[wicked acorn]

low end = 99% mana spent high end = 0% mana spent

[rich night]

I reat its based on % of hp used compared to mana used

[random plume]

So technically bbath is always the max amount?

[wicked acorn]

yes

[scarlet nimbus]

um, u apparently cant get massacre, mindless slaughter, luster purge and thaumic adrenalin (this one is really cool btw). Idk if it would be too easy for spell fallen to get thaumic adrenalin if it werent locked behind 2 red nodes (bloodlust and pressure respectively)

melee kinda needs all of em to deal dmg and sustain up. I dont have a thought through idea, but it would be cool if that was somehow accesible. Just for an idea, connect thaumic adrenalin to overwhelming rage or add a crosspathing to luster purge somehow

[random plume]

Good

[wicked acorn]

thaumic adrenaline "cool" gg

[scarlet nimbus]

I only tested on melee so far, and it allows me to heal up with 700ls within 3s. idk whats not good about it

(for melee ls at leat)

[rich night]

Apoc offhand 🔥

[wicked acorn]

within 3 seconds 😭

what if i need 5000 health

[rich night]

Then u wait 21sec gang 🗣️ 🔥

[wicked acorn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1119959779700391940/1290243058428018731/QQ20210710233839.gif

[scarlet nimbus]

let me test how much I heal in that time

[rich night]

21sec

[wicked acorn]

only way i got that much health was deadass by offhanding apoc

[rich night]

Big mac is going to be so dum next patch ngl, but fallen is die 😔

[wicked acorn]

big mac damage lowered slightly but it gets so much more utility now

[wary lichen]

stat buff nodes are truly one of a kind

[wicked acorn]

also i don’t get why people are saying the air shout nerf is that bad getting the 150-500k you get on dummy on boss is literally respectable

[scarlet nimbus]

ok its not accurate cause my melee still costs health lol

[wicked acorn]

if not for the sustain upperscream still has the same safety

[scarlet nimbus]

it took 20s to heal 12500 hpm without the dmg I took
the first 5k took 5s

[wary lichen]

need -hp tomes

[scarlet nimbus]

on ~700ls, thats very good imo

[wicked acorn]

20 seconds to heal is good?? 😭

[scarlet nimbus]

wtf did u even read, u asked about 5k, and I said the first 5k took 5s

[wicked acorn]

i didn’t ask about 5k

[scarlet nimbus]

20s was for 12.5k, and ofc thats gonna be worse. Cause thaumic adrenalin only calculates the lowest hp in the last 5s

[scarlet nimbus]

?

I think u did

[wicked acorn]

idk that was more of a rhetorical question

[scarlet nimbus]

I dont think 5k in 5s is bad, especially with only 700ls (also this is tstack, not tested anything else)

[wicked acorn]

i alr made a build and setup for my needs

yeah now consider what happens when the dummy fights back

i did some tests in raids and it is not very useful

or if you kill your targets

[scarlet nimbus]

but isnt that more in the nature of ls itself and not thaumic? I was only referring to thaumic. and the node is very good imo

[wicked acorn]

that’s kind of the same conclusion i had

[scarlet nimbus]

I see the bigger problem in not beeing able to pick it and luster purge lol 😭

[wicked acorn]

thaumic itself is a good node in a vacuum but like when you use it on fallen in game it falls flat

[true iris]

Don't worry panda I will heal u :)

[scarlet nimbus]

maybe, but u could always get more ls/ less hp so the effectiveness goes up. idk I need to test a bit more

[wicked acorn]

thank you pookie

[true iris]

We can match names fr this time

[runic nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/think-bro-gif-22403438

[runic nacelle]

Can i see your build outta curiosity

[scarlet nimbus]

nothing crazy, just rather standard alka tstack with crafted pants and some ls accessories

[runic nacelle]

Can you put it into wynnbuilder

Not the tree just the items

[scarlet nimbus]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#CI0F9WzBH0enoHQYbIDoT2RY40VDGT2euu-6IuWI3W41qUyHHnH0
I considered my rolls when calculating the ls, just fyi

ignore tree

[runic nacelle]

😭😭😭 tstakc is so doomed

[scarlet nimbus]

I was able to hit 300k without rage on the tree without thaumic (ik, sustain issues but I made a thread for that ig)

[runic nacelle]

Whyd u build ls without thaumic 💀

[scarlet nimbus]

just to test the new dmg lol

[runic nacelle]

We also run into the issue that the 3 tier pants is like

Pretty necessary

[scarlet nimbus]

true luckily its very cheap
but u can probably build other stuff like smack jacket, alkahest, necrosis,kindled orchid, etc.)

[wicked acorn]

goodbye walk speed

[runic nacelle]

Yes but now where do i get my ls stuff also necrosis 😭😭

You drop the pants you gotta make up 3 more attack speed

[scarlet nimbus]

wdym necrosis 450ls lol, u get the amount u need from just this and tomes (maybe one ring)

all the items I listed have +1 tier and ls

[runic nacelle]

My guy your damage will flop

[scarlet nimbus]

the price u have to pay lol, do u expect to gain everything for free lol

[runic nacelle]

Also like goodbye qol lol

[runic nacelle]

????

The price to pay is your build becoming shit?

[scarlet nimbus]

....
the update wants/ needs u to build sustain, u always gonna lose something
have u actually tried to optimize fallen melee? cause I havent, this was just a quick slop

[runic nacelle]

Dude i totally agree but the fucking loss is huge

Thaumic does not work with the current item pool

[runic nacelle]

You cant cause u cant take luster and adrenaline rn 💀💀💀

[scarlet nimbus]

ik, thats why I made a thread about it lol, maybe it was overlooked

[runic nacelle]

It was overlooked

[scarlet nimbus]

irdts

[runic nacelle]

Enlighten me

[scarlet nimbus]

on spell maybe, but melee seems fine

[runic nacelle]

💔

The amount of damage and qol you lose for building ls is wayyy too hogh

[scarlet nimbus]

the whóle time I was only talking about melee though

[runic nacelle]

You literally cannot tna anymore

Unless you consu spam and pray for hopeless 3

The only good et with ws item is delirium and it has -ls

[scarlet nimbus]

I can just quote this, I currently have no opinion on spell fallen cause I have not tested it

[runic nacelle]

Dude are you slow im talking about melee

You need delirium for tna

You cant look at the item pool and be like yeah this is fine

Theres way too much in a drop in damage for this to be worth

Not saying ls should be on the top damsge items im just saying there should be more ls items that dont sac your damage

[scarlet nimbus]

this is just very close minded imo, not everything needs to be good for everything . And its always a tradeoff depending on what u need or value more.
making a chestplate a necessaty for a raid lol. theres not just one way of raiding, although the community appears to think so (i will not argue about this, as its just my opinion and I'm entitled to that lol). If something doesnt work in some content use something else, if u still want to make it work, then take the losses that brings.

generally more item variety I agree on, but dooming everything 2 days after release seems a bit rash, cause not all possibilities have been tested

[fleet ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/cheeseburger-stacked-burger-tower-tall-big-gif-5715233482568075672

[runic nacelle]

Im not dooming im just telling you it wont work in its current state ive already been told things are getting changed

[runic nacelle]

Closed minded cause i want more playstyles to be good in endgame content?

[scarlet nimbus]

hmm, what is getting changed ?

[scarlet nimbus]

no that was related to needing delirium

[runic nacelle]

How are you gonna get the ws for tna?

[scarlet nimbus]

this was my point... u dont necessarily need it, but as I've stated before I wont argue about that, cause its just my opinion

[runic nacelle]

Wdym you dont need it do you play melee?

The whole point is to kite greg what do you even do if greg aggros to you

0 player agency

Like genuinely what else can you do in that bossfight if u cant kite it

Its a risky playstyle i think its warranted for me to wanted a higher damage return lol

But again its getting changed up so all is good

[scarlet nimbus]

again I wont argue, everything u say is somewhat true, I just dont agree with it beeing the only possibility

[prime temple]

not confirming what exactly yet, we're still discussing, but we'll be buffing healing more

(using the beta to see what exactly to buff was always the goal anyway, as i stated before)

[runic nacelle]

Whats the other possibility lol

[scarlet nimbus]

didnt I say I'm not willing to discuss lol

[runic nacelle]

Sick mate

Cant just tell me im wrong and refuse to elaborate

[thorn rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/capybara-war-ominous-196cord-jahbama-gif-22510596

[scarlet nimbus]

Ik how its gonna end and its a waste of time
I didnt say ur wrong, I specifically said the stuff u said is right

just that I had another opinion

[runic nacelle]

Im just asking for an example

[scarlet nimbus]

and I said I wont, because i know how its gonna end, can u just accept it. U wont be able to change my opinion. And I wont be able to change urs, so we can just drop it her

it's a waste of time

[runic nacelle]

😭😭😭

Said im wrong and refuses to elaborate great discussion

[scarlet nimbus]

still never said u were wrong though

[runic nacelle]

I said you need ws for the greg fight and you said its not the only possibility

[thorn rapids]

Tank it

[scarlet nimbus]

not the only possibility implies ur right, just that I think theres more to it. idk imma stop interacting here, this leads to nothing

[runic nacelle]

Genius

[rich night]

after all ive seen i have rlly low hopes ngl

[wicked acorn]

will the changes be released on beta or will the next set of changes be seen on live

[prime temple]

doesn't depend on us unfortunately, depends if beta gets a hotfix
if it does, it should be there tho, like 99% sure

[carmine nebula]

if all of these changes just come straight into live imma crash out ngl

[prime temple]

live's 100% not getting the current version, the numbers are intended for beta only
the only thing that might make it to live is slaughter draining health while not corrupted
cause dev time
but i hope that one should be easy to fix

[rich night]

Imma just straight up stop bruh 🥀 , stopped farming alrd, only thing ive been doing is a couple raids now

[rich night]

Can i as for what purpose?(Second line)

Nvm ty for answer

[rich night]

Will you guys look into the numbers of the new aspects? 2 of em r basically useless

[wicked acorn]

idk bpact aspect is so 🥀

[prime temple]

which 2?

[rich night]

Also yes eotb still getting nerfed or was it walked back?

[rich night]

5% Healing when leaving corrupted and uppercut one

[prime temple]

no idea, that's IM side, though i doubt it tbh

[wicked acorn]

tbh i think its fine it gets nerfed

[rich night]

Yeah, it is too defying, was just curious

[wicked acorn]

i believe a lot of the early damage complaint were moreso because fallen aspect just lessens ur damage

[rich night]

This a bug no?

[wicked acorn]

yeah

so eotb getting nerfed is very fair for that

[prime temple]

nobody knew 🙃

[rich night]

The 5% healing is like if im alrd healing 60% those 5% wont do shii, imma just pot off of corrupted instead like wtf

[runic nacelle]

Add the 0.05 health cost reduction back on the mythic 😀

[rich night]

Uppercut after the changes if u consider the other classes its kinda meh, wont rlly slot it no more and aspect does nothing to fix it

[wicked acorn]

idk the bpact aspect is so punishing for non raid grinders

you basically get your full power locked behind 75 fabled aspects which is kinda 😐

[rich night]

Its less consistent and weaker than other teamwide str buffs so it just gets removed

[prime temple]

that one is more for enabling fringe builds operating on the margins
upper i assume you mean range? (we added 27, gen don't remember lol)

[rich night]

The 8% dmg for AB, mb for not going into detail

[wicked acorn]

that one is very underwhelming for sure

[rich night]

Builds operating on the margins will also just pot, no? if u have 8k hp and u heal bac 30% just pot the rest

[wicked acorn]

especially because of so much aspect bloat

theres just so many aspects you like absolutely need on fallen

[rich night]

Id say its even worse for builds operating on margins bcs ur getting less return from it

Is fallen joever chat, do i swap to bigmac

[wicked acorn]

fallen mythic, uppercut range, blood pact are just completely necessary

air shout completely necessary on upperscream as well

[prime temple]

getting 38% strength vs 30% is pretty significant, no? that's like 25% more bang for your buck
hmmm
could buff it a bit

[rich night]

Idk how its gonna look after nerfs for the air shout aspect

[rich night]

Yeah, but no diff when u count the team, when solo its very significant tho

[prime temple]

more like
for when we get it to an ok place
hopefully

[rich night]

But like for raids or wars or smthng im rlly not slotting AB at that point

[wicked acorn]

then you pick 1/2 of:
bash range
main attack range
ab value
exhilarate

[wicked acorn]

i dont believe the air shout nerfs are at all significant

[rich night]

Prob main atk and offhand apoc w the direction its taking of going ls

[wicked acorn]

apoc offhand is so 💀

[rich night]

Yeah ik...

[wicked acorn]

if im investing 95 in def im not going for apoc is all im sayin

im just picking up the trusty old rots

[rich night]

Big mac'ing time

What else u gonna use? Rally?

[rich night]

If it wasnt a str buff it would b good btw

But 4sec on for 11sec cd on str buff lower than other teamwide str buffs is meh

[wicked acorn]

its lower than fortitude only

[carmine nebula]

the funny thing is that it actually affects surf more than upperscream due to longer cycle without war screaming

[rich night]

Oh, i just notice ab always going off bcs i made a bar for it, ig too many ball benders

[wicked acorn]

"i should not leak" daily affirmations

[rich night]

😶

[prime temple]

oh btw the 0.05 thing is like the last thing we're not quite sure what to do about tbh
there's a decent chance we'll shift some of it to haemo

[rich night]

What haemo, im clueless

[wicked acorn]

the only thing it changes is that your percieved dps is the same on dummy as on boss 😭

[runic nacelle]

Just put it back on the mythic

[carmine nebula]

haemorrhage, the node next to bloodlust

[wicked acorn]

im guessing its to let paladin use bpact and paladin mythic

[runic nacelle]

Thats so lame

[wicked acorn]

but also i did palafallen tests and it was like... i was just oversustaining with paladin mythic

i dont really believe its useful on palafallen

[rich night]

Idk, pala got so much this update, no? at the cost of "some dmg"

[wicked acorn]

idk i thinkt he paladin changes are rather small

nothing really changed for it except losing utility on rally

[prime temple]

the fact that it's so aspect dependent is not great, that decision is kinda independent from which aspect will get it

[runic nacelle]

Id rather it be get 1 mythic copy than get a bunch of fableds

[wicked acorn]

i dont actually think theres anything you can do outside of just removing the aspect and adding it to base to be honest

[rich night]

fallen as a whole feels aspect dependent rn, or mayb just i feel like that

[runic nacelle]

Yeah its either add it to the base tree or add it to the mythiv

Keeping any cost on a fabled is just questionable

Seems like its there to benefit every warrior archetype but fallen

[wicked acorn]

make it the first 1 tier aspect

🔥

[prime temple]

yeah, that's kinda the problem with dmg oriented archs
shade is similar in that sense

hmmmm

[runic nacelle]

Fallen has to take an extra aspect spot for the reduction too now

Vs 1 before and now theres like a shit ton more aspects to work with

[rich night]

I havent checked the assassin reword, but isnt he on live highest dmg while also being tankier than fallen with little sac for it

[runic nacelle]

No

Trick isnt that simple

Also trick is pretty scuffed rn cause sandbagging is bugged and theres no other way to reduce cd

[wicked acorn]

if you take any damage on current trick you lose damage its kind of funny

[rich night]

Ohhh icic

[runic nacelle]

Right now its kinda hard to tell how good trick is ngl

[prime temple]

ig fallen's still playable without the reduction...
i just have ptsd from farming shade t1 for 2 months and not getting it at all, while knowing that it's not functional without the aspect
didn't wanna create that for new players
but ig this case is different enough

[runic nacelle]

Its on tier 1

Currently

Its definitely harder to max out a fabled over getting 1 copy of a mythic

[prime temple]

that's fair
we can just treat it like +1 totem for summoner

[rich night]

Seeing i dont have a single maxed out fabled i go agree... with over 200 raids

[wicked acorn]

i mean yeah but you still have like half functionality when you have a fabled

[prime temple]

yeah that kinda why we're on the fence

[runic nacelle]

Still its an overall nerf unless you raid alot

[rich night]

But its also consuming an aspect slot

[wicked acorn]

i can see why and personally i dont really care that much since ill probably eventually get it but for your average player like fallen t1 is already a rather large ask

[runic nacelle]

Basically just making it worse for a casual + this

[rich night]

This too

[prime temple]

what if
fabled, but
-0.04/0.05/0.052

[wicked acorn]

💀

[rich night]

damn, alrd at 330 raids and only 3 maxed aspects none of em being fableds

[wicked acorn]

fableds are rather hard to max out

[prime temple]

yeah

[runic nacelle]

Its essentially a long term nerf to like a majority of players

[rich night]

Never noticed until this convo tbh

[wicked acorn]

deceptively hard

[runic nacelle]

Feel like if another archetype wants the -cost it should have to use the fallen aspect 🤷

Aspect ends up benefiting the other archetypes more

[rich night]

Fair, it does make a big diff on hp cost

[wicked acorn]

i mean i can see both arguments

i do think its silly paladin takes it

[random plume]

It worked better as mythic aspect, so it should return to being it or just reduce the bpact's base cost and remove it

[wicked acorn]

but also i think thats a problem of 20% sustain is just so good and paladin aspect is just such a nothing burger

but also since bpact counts as a separate ability cast for holy power you end up not even needing the extra holy power from your paladin aspect anyways

[runic nacelle]

Yeah buts its a fallen aspect at the end of the day

[wicked acorn]

but for monk i can see it being absolutely necessary if youre playing fallenmonk

since pressure is such a huge focus

but also the fallen aspect has literally just turned into bpact damage

bloodlust gaining damage is like so unimpactful since like 2 bashes and its the same damage as your final explosion attack 😭

[rich night]

Oh i forgor about that, lemme read it again

• Fallen's Embodiment of Blind Fury (Mythic)
  • T1: No longer decreases Blood Pact's health cost and instead increases Bloodlust's damage boost per 1% Corrupted by 1.5%
  • T2: Now increases Blood Pact's Damage by +5% (minimum) to +8.35% (maximum)
  • T3: Now increases Blood Pact's Damage by +8% (minimum) to +13.35% (maximum)

T1 looks useless 😦

[random plume]

T1 is useless.

i would rather take a fabled or aoe than that

[wicked acorn]

bloodlust already has a 5% scaling for corrupted no so thats 6.5% instead

[rich night]

I just say this bcs Bloodlust alrd wipes creeps and it wont change anything for bosses

[prime temple]

ok, missed a thread, very likely will come back to mythic

[runic nacelle]

The bloodlust buff should be the fabled

[random plume]

Blust going to fabled would be perfect ngl

a niche of facmisile players

would be happy to have their aspect

[prime temple]

oh true

[random plume]

Forcing that poor scaling on everyone is a bad idea, but it is a tempting pick for that specific kind - without enforcing it on all of us.

[rich night]

Still 1.5% is a bit low considering bloodlust alrd wipes creeps

[random plume]

@prime temple fac's "doubled scaling" includes the aspect's 6,5 instead of 5% ?

making it 13% instead of 10% per 1% corrupted

[rich night]

^^ Can u speak in a way i understand too 😭

[random plume]

I still see ppl use it especially on nol tower or labirynth

Desperate Facmisile lowers your base dmg on Bloodlust but doubles the corrupted boost scaling.

Im wondering if using the aspect is additive or multiplicative

[wicked acorn]

no one uses dfac anymore

[random plume]

with that mID

[random plume]

pfinder ✨ Seriously, i still see ppl use it on NOL

[wicked acorn]

though, that MID should just come to an accessory or armor piece for late game

[wicked acorn]

yeaaa but honestly its more there just because of dfac's absolutely absurd base dps

it has 532 base dps... on level 80

+225 damage raw

[random plume]

Yeah but people abuse the mID ngl

[wicked acorn]

do they i thought it was just a nice bonus

[random plume]

if u have dfac on tower you will always see him at near 0hp when jumping to next floor

it became actually annoying since I couldnt really heal that way

[prime temple]

no idea myself ✨ ✨ ✨
ims would have to be the ones to test and balance

[wicked acorn]

i havent seen one in my pfinders recently

[random plume]

Well I didnt raid for a week or so

[wicked acorn]

idk im just wondering how these changes affect low level fallen too since intox was like holding it up singlehandedly

i imagine it has completely nuked early game fallen

though early game fallen was like absurdly broken in general anyways

[random plume]

Im still thinking they should restore intoxicating to what it was (cd & limit) but make it function like applying a 3-5s healing potion with the full value of healing being the HP stored for healing (including exhilirate)

So it would still reward actually playing properly with gaining heals & allow for usage of extra hp as mobility etc.

especially that your hp would be regenerating so u could spend that extra hp even on your main weapon

[wicked acorn]

i mean i also fundamentally disagree with thinking making a class that drops its own hp to zero having a full heal is "too free"

when like lightbender.. exists

and acolyte

[random plume]

Well..

[wicked acorn]

i do think current intox is bullshit though

[random plume]

I just really miss the fact that playing in corrupt properly was rewarding

and you could keep going as long as you didnt waste hp unnecessarly.

and for that you could just pick exhilirate if you tend to skill issue a lot.

[wicked acorn]

im ngl you were able to heal like 3 health bars of health

[random plume]

to get more "guaranteed healing" if u get slapped or miss your targets

[wicked acorn]

that was kind of crazy

[random plume]

Your cycle would really need to be extremelly long tho

• you had airshout, that thing was broken

[wicked acorn]

my 15 second cycle on bash upper (lower # of hits than upperscream) gave me 180% health

[random plume]

it will drop now since you wont get the same result without it.

[random plume]

15 second cycle we dont do that here anymore

[wicked acorn]

on upperscream if you built like any sustain you were healing upwards of 2-3 health bars for a 15-18 second sustain 😭

thats like genuinely bullshit idk

because it basically meant if you felt threatened at any point after you burnt like half your health you could just switch weapons and dip

[random plume]

I mean cycles shouldnt last too long either bcs you stay in low DPS range wayy too long

[random plume]

Thats why it should heal over 3-5 seconds, Im not sure if everyone would be able to make such a long sustain and if its even worth it dps-wise

[wicked acorn]

i dont actually think that would solve many of the issues now that i think about it

since you still will be out of death range in the first second and any chip damage you can just heal anyways in those 3-5 seconds

[random plume]

0.5s of delay

before healing starts maybe?

we cant really make the healing inaccessible for longer periods either

0.5 up to 1s feels justified, anything above it is not really practical

since thats plenty of time to "get slapped" if u messed up.

even tho 0.5s would be enough for most attacks that bosses throw at u

[wicked acorn]

idk if i agree

i think the fact you don't have to interact for 5 seconds already is a lot of safety

and i think the whole idea is to force you to interact for those 5 seconds

[random plume]

those 5s usually is dodging the attacks and not losing HP before next cycle

[wicked acorn]

but then if im interacting with the enemies for my entire burst cycle + downtime then why am i even playing fallen i should just go play a 100% uptime build

[random plume]

Im not a fan of making it harder in content like NOL or TNA.

Where there is just a lot of stuff that can touch you due to lack of space or spam of mobs

[wicked acorn]

ur telling me

[random plume]

Im +1 on that since it is valid

[wicked acorn]

if my fallen class was ranked it would be #25th noler in the game

😭

lifesteal is gonna suck so bad in nol

[random plume]

How about making intoxicating blood's limit around 110% of your max hp over 3s (+0.5s delay if needed)

would make it reasoanble to pick exhilirate to be comfy with having extra spendable hp on offhands

while still allowing people who play properly to heal

[wicked acorn]

i think it should just cap at a certain % health per second if implemetned

[random plume]

Technically it will

But yeah also works I suppose

Could be just specific % of your max HP with the entire healing being long enough so that each proc wont exceed the limit

[wet walrus]

alr bcs its the official tread im gonna copy my suggestion here

So as we all know current fallen (on main server) can heal too easy and it makes fallen basically immortal compared to most dps classes
I do think that current fallen nerf on beta was a awkward step in the RIGHT direction
Its pretty hard to balance fallen bcs if it cant gain back all health it used it cant sustain and if it can its isane tank so how about to KEEP 60% CAP buuuut make missing health added to corrupted on activation (so fallen could get 100% corrupted if it started at any health not just 100%) its NOT OP bcs u still lose dmg if u start at 10% hp (bcs 90% of ur mana-health isnt here) and it will make future balancing easier (maybe adding bbath mid that makes use of starting corrupted at 10% of max health or smth)
(Also intox blood should be changed to heal from corrupted not from lost health)

by allowing fallen to acces all corrupted from any health% we no longer need to make it heal up to 100% (and it also makes fallen more risky bcs ur actual health is much lower than ehp)
also this makes any healer in the team direct buff to fallen bcs u still can land more hits (and so means dmg) from 100% hp than 60%

[random plume]

At this point you could just constantly stay at 30% HP, benefiting from only dealing damage when both enraged and armour breaker are active and maxed out

Build some sustain and that 30% can last quite some time.

Since you would get that 70% corrupt instantly anyway so why heal

The fact that fallen has to "ramp up" from the low DPS to High DPS is a limiter put on Fallen, I think intentionally

[random plume]

If that was a thing healing would actually be a DPS loss tbf.

[wet walrus]

it can be tweaked to let u get full corrupted instead

not in instant

[random plume]

How do u see it implemented then?

scale corrupted based off your current HP ?

[wet walrus]

ye

[random plume]

Would be really abusable by meele builds

Overall corrupt requiring 100% max hp is a "downside" thats reasonable since that really encourages not getting hit and preserving your HP as a resource

[wet walrus]

nice

melee is bad anyway

[random plume]

Well they are trying to make a support for it with reworked meele nodes

Massacre and Slaughter

[wicked acorn]

this owuld be really broken im ngl

[random plume]

Build godly amounts of sustain and keep corrupt only for last bit of % so every spell will be literally maxed out on damage buffs

And make corrupt usable regardless of if you care about your hp or not

Reasonable buff am I right?

At this point it would take even less skill to play this properly. I could see it as being a Red Node down the fallen tree replacing Blust, but it would still feel broken

[wicked acorn]

i mean i would just like build a -hp stick and just play at high corrupt permanently

[random plume]

The only problem it solves is that fallen wouldnt have a free "out-of-danger" card but whats the point of making it even more busted

[wicked acorn]

people already pre corrupt for this very reason

[random plume]

Yeah thats the issue, you shouldnt be able to constantly abuse it

[random plume]

-6k hp crafted would do the trick perfectly fine.

to cut your hp to be around 30% of your primary's

[wicked acorn]

yea exactly

[random plume]

with new armour breaker it would be even more busted

Enraged + 38% self buff + Corrupted base Scaling maxed anyway

[wet walrus]

alr i tried

[random plume]

Imagine slapping sustain and Generalist on it

[wet walrus]

now im letting masterminds to make best fallen

[random plume]

Dont get me wrong, your suggestion would make playing fallen really enjoyable, but too strong at this point

There would be actually no point to heal beyond certain %

Everyone would be running high WS hyperglass builds

and abuse easy corrupt with -hp sticks

[scarlet nimbus]

Uh, isn’t this exactly what was going on the last few months lol

[random plume]

Last few months we had high sustain, ehp, mobility and damage abomination called Hero+Airshout

Well maybe not months

[wicked acorn]

yeah it’s been months

[random plume]

Lost track since I never liked hero so I went for bbath anyway

[wicked acorn]

they weren’t hyperglass

[random plume]

Yea

[wicked acorn]

i guess 😭

[random plume]

That would result in literally one-shottable hyperglass 100% of the time

[wicked acorn]

silly of you to think people wouldn’t just go hero anyways btw

imo the issue was never really that people liked or used it

the other weapons were just not strong enough in comparison

[random plume]

It acted as all-in-one option, so why use anything else

[wicked acorn]

no reason to branch out if you sacrifice so much for slightly more dps

[random plume]

thats why it was just an abomination

[wicked acorn]

what is going on

what is this hitbox detection 😭

[random plume]

Can we please get cleansing breeze to be more accessible from fallen so catamaran becomes a viable option without suffering called "flying kick" ?

✨

(Im not a fan of going back to rally-focused gameplay but we need to work with what we got)

[wet walrus]

would be so nice to have small healing for fallen outside of combat

[torpid comet]

how about they fix fallen instead then?

[random plume]

In general having rally would be a nice option instead of overhealed extra hp as a way to cast charge while maintaining max hp of your primary weapon

So you wouldnt need to get healing above 100% hp of your primary weapon to get some expendable hp for casting charge on corrupt cooldown, you could just use rally for that

if we had connection from idk, Enraged blow -> Cheaper Warscream -> Cleansing Breeze

Right now you need to waste a lot of points and hinder yourself with flying kick blocking your escape when cornered by mobs ;s

It wouldnt be abusable either since rally has 3s cd

[wary lichen]

Is the new iteration of fallen healing still gonna favor lifesteal

[prime temple]

likely yes, but much less

and there'll likely gonna be an option to avoid it if you play a slightly more difficult option

[wicked acorn]

@prime temple 😭

please do not make this class depend on lifesteal that was like the worst 10 seconds of my life 😭

[deep pagoda]

this is what I was saying about it being impossible to melee anything that moves

warrior melee is genuinely garbage

[wicked acorn]

bro is taking a chomp out o fme

and i cant even life steal 😭

i have some full gameplays of me thaumin it in tna and groot i will upload them soon

watched was so fucking ass 😭

[deep pagoda]

for tna specifically you could probably build really high damage to onecycle the boss and then use hpr tomes + thaum to heal up during watched

[wicked acorn]

i have hpr tomes already 💔💔💔

[inner jasper]

4k dps

[inner jasper]

ah but you see actually you should have made a hpr crafted offhand for watched… rookie mistake

[wicked acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-gif-25177956

[slim crypt]

erm you actually have to offhand the ten fool pole

[wicked acorn]

https://youtu.be/Qk1IyXekUCg?si=F4ZvHUk0qDa-Caw1&t=331

gameplay if anyone cares to watch

linked average lifesteal moment

[runic nacelle]

Nice fkick at 2:50

[rose fable]

nah bro clearly you need the chain lightning apoc to full heal from powder special 🤯

[wicked acorn]

im thaumin it

[fleet ibex]

i wonder if they tested thaum in raids before shipping it in beta

[raven eagle]

I've given a lot of feedback about warriors healing capability rn and playability, I'm personally waiting to see if some huge issues are addressed or not cuz if the healing stays as is, yeah I don't think fallen is gonna be playable outside bash cut with rally

the best analogy I've come up with the current fallen situation is

needing to build health sustain to be able to play acolyte.

[rich night]

Dosent rally have a 3sec cd now...

[rich night]

Yeah, its just plain stupid...

[raven eagle]

oh, aight time to pack up

the only way I can see fallen being played the way it is

cycle -> potion
and repeat

[rich night]

This patch is making me feel like a masochist playing fallen 😔

[rich night]

Yeah, thats exactly what i was saying, and its also the reason the new aspect for healing is literally useless if numbers r not ajusted

[versed orbit]

so, as many have said before, the healing change is complete bs and will make fallen unplayable.

[scarlet nimbus]

read up, theres alr some feedback to this

[versed orbit]

there are like

1000 messages
can u point out where?

[scarlet nimbus]

true...
there was already some stuff in the first message, but someone really should do a summary. i cbta cause I dont care about fallen enough

[scarlet nimbus]

but they r already looking into some sustain buffs, idr anything specific, but maybe like saving up ls during corrupted or making it proc on bloodlust (dont take my word here). Iirc it wont be uncoupled from sustain, but much more applicable

[rich night]

Yeah, while theres some feed back to it we still have 0 idea what the change is, for all you know can be a bump from 30% to 35%

[scarlet nimbus]

I mean thtas normal though isnt it, they still dont know themselves lol

but its good to know its beeing worked on

[rich night]

Just sayin, that until there is any knowing whats to come feedback is still totally valid imo 🤷‍♀️

[versed orbit]

saving life steal in corrupted doesnt sound good, but its better than whatever the hell they made

[rich night]

locking yr survivability to ls only does not sound good in any light for me in a close range character

[scarlet nimbus]

sure but saying the same stuff (remotely limited to: this is shit) helps no one, instead ideas would be great ig

[scarlet nimbus]

hpr would work too ig, but triggering on bloodlust would fix the range thing

[rich night]

Yeah, i dont think they understand your only window for healing is 5sec after the burst basically 🤷‍♂️ so ls and hpr r kinda bad, not even talking about that u guys aint even thinking about items available for builds

Building for pos ls will b a crime ngl

[scarlet nimbus]

I think they understand that very well lol. its why thaumic adrenalin uses the lowest hp u had in the last 5s. I could heal up very well with about 700ls in my tests. but it still has the range problem. Why would building ls be a crime, its much more logical than expecting all the health (and mana) sustain from tree, and was the thing that allowed fallen to spec all into dmg. It will be different. Bad idk, I will have to wait and see

[rich night]

700ls w thaumic healing 5k hp would still take u a while

ls is every 3s, and building for ls feels stupid

[rich night]

show yr tests or the math that came from them

[scarlet nimbus]

Took me about 5s on tstack ( I’m not gonna share shit lol, cause I was just testing for me personally, and it was not standardized) so take it as my experience. I agree that ls in its current form of application has its problem for warrior.

To adress the other point, why do u feel it’s stupid? Cause u didn’t have to be before? Or is there another reason. I really don’t get much from the statement…

[deep pagoda]

it's different on tstack because you're always 2 blocks away from the boss, meleeing constantly

whereas on spell, you could be 10 blocks away, and getting two melees in can be much more difficult (see: panda's video where he chases notg for 10 seconds and then gets run over before he can get a single melee in)

[rich night]

Bcs it limits yr playstyle choices considering ur item options

And reason i ask to share its bcs i dont want the bs of "trust me bro"

[rich night]

this also true, NOL is going to b a joke lol

[scarlet nimbus]

Ik that’s why I’m saying the current application is a bit flawed

[deep pagoda]

no one here is saying that ls a terrible mechanic and shouldn't ever be used, the complaints (from what I've seen) are mostly:

1. there is not enough ls on items to make high ls possible without using crafteds or only using bbath/apoc
2. it is very hard to consistently apply ls on moving enemies

[scarlet nimbus]

But normally u have to build some sort of hp sustain (at least usually). It’s not necessarily a bad thing, it’s the same as building mr or spell costs. I don’t see where this limits playstyle options. Especially cause it might not be limited to ls but also hpr

[rich night]

^^

[deep pagoda]

yeah except spell costs and mr are avaliable on tons of items for every element combination, whereas hpr and ls are only really avaliable on fire items

so if you're not building fire you have all of 4 options to choose from, none of which are very good

obviously an exaggeration but you get what I mean

hpr and ls are traditionally fire-related IDs so there just aren't enough non-fire items with a lot of hpr/ls to make this node usable (especially spell items. melee items have ls because they're melee items)

[scarlet nimbus]

2. I have not said anything else

First one idk,there’s quite a few ls options outside of fire
I have not looked too much into it, but 700ls (which ofc is only the needed number from my experience) is not that much

[deep pagoda]

if you don't disagree with 2) then why are you still saying 700ls is enough 😭 2) is literally saying that if you're not a melee fallen, you're not going to be in range to consistently hit melees for 5s, which means you need to build significantly more than 700 ls

I crunched the numbers to be about 1.3k ls on your average 12k hp build, assuming full heff tomes

[scarlet nimbus]

Because i consider they already discussing changes

[rich night]

700ls is shit out right, excuse my language

[scarlet nimbus]

With thaumic it gets too 2.1k wdym
And ls works on multiple targets

[rich night]

for melee focused builds sure, but for ability builds 🥀

Also its not like ur using ls to fix mistakes, ur using it to regen the hp u used as mana

[scarlet nimbus]

I also said that I feel the application is flawed.But the application is alr beeing discussed. Idk am I missing something.

[rich night]

All im sayin is that the other guy input of current implementation of healing being shit is a valid sentiment considering CT didnt give a real solution yet so we dont know whats to come

[scarlet nimbus]

I said nothing difference. Only thing I’d like seeing more is ideas for implementing, instead of just saying that it’s shit this way

I think that is alr common accepted sentiment

[wary lichen]

One competent arcanist teammate and it's over

Only two places I've seen lifesteal work in this game are Quetzalcoatl and at-level apoc 😭

[abstract tiger]

Ls just sucks as a concept lol even in the elements where ls is more common (essentially only fire lmao) it still just...doesn't heal enough

Not to mention how someone already stated but it's so hard to land hits on moving enemies with warrior

If they want this to work they need to rework the entire system

[fleet ibex]

Yeah but it’s not even worth playing fallen anymore because the damage is so mediocre + 5s downtime just shoots it into the toilet

[rich night]

^^ Please look over the numbers and whats available for the players CT

[raven eagle]

The damage may have been low due to a bug btw

[fleet ibex]

I know the aspect was bugged but even so, a 20% damage buff once bug is fixed is still mid damage

Like u burst for 7 seconds and hit sub 500k peaks then wait 5 seconds while struggling to heal before repeating it again

So ur average dps ends up being around 150-200k on the dps archetype where u have to sacrifice ur hp and put urself at severe risk to deal “good” damage

Meanwhile arcanist acolyte shade can all sustain 400k+ so why would someone ever play fallen post patch unless warrior is their only class

[wary lichen]

The item team is very frugal with giving out high value lifesteal and where they put it really, high attack speeds also don't really get to do much stealing on mobile targets

[raven eagle]

man atleast it should be playable tho, forget doing any dmg if it's not even playable in the end

[fleet ibex]

fr

[abstract tiger]

Seems disconnected at first but it honestly reminds me of the warp & slayer hpr situation. There's not enough pieces with hpr and actually usable damage to cover all the elements it's used in. Main piece (aquamarine) is we but warp is air and slayer is ad. That's why people had to resort to c.acc and hpr tomes--because they were the only pieces that actually gave that quite rare stat when a lot of others didn't

Same is true for ls except

1. it's even harder to build on c.acc
2. ls tomes are just worse than hpr tomes
3. a lot of fallen builds need to deal with -hpr as well from slayer/carrest
4. tierdropping (ig slightly less important with 5s window)
5. inherent difficulty with warrior melee

[random plume]

Unpopular opinion but I really appreciate AT's efforts at trying to make bloodlust more appealing, even if its just giving it some support via aspect buff (even tho, it should be fabled and mythic should return to being bpact cost). This ability for what it is was just underutilised for being a 3rd red note on a dps archetype, even though considering discombobulate was moved to being purple, we could really get more interesting red note instead

[torpid comet]

I really don't think anyone is mad that the AT is buffing bad abilities, it's just that killing the entire archetype at the same time isn't the best of idea

[random plume]

Well Yeah I hate that change, but at the same time I appreciate that they did something good aswell

[wary lichen]

yeah these sustain stats are just insanely difficult to come across

honestly with how many difficulties are ahead of lifesteal working out i hope thaumic is just scrapped, especially if the beta doesn't get a few hotfixes

[random plume]

fr

Why we just cant get an enjoyable archetype

[wary lichen]

at least there's going to be a lifestealless option it seems but it'd just make people using HP pots do very well going with the lifesteal route and not actually lifestealing

[random plume]

in PVE game 😒