The actual problem with acolyte.

[glad crater]

this is his like 5th Acolyte post I swear to god

[shell kestrel]

RNGesus is likely to get feedback muted

[lapis nexus]

Every post this person makes is like almost always ragebait or skill issue posts

[ebon ridge]

voted most likely to get feedback muted

[robust lagoon]

is not ragebait, is just a bad opinion without good context

[bronze arch]

Let's get back old ec with 0 dmg 0 aoe 0 movement 0 qol

[crystal quartz]

Well her. And its my second. This is a fine post in comparison to some others i have made and also isnt wrong. Also panda i wasnt telling you off like "oh well if you would read you would know whatni meant" i was asking you to reread it as it seemed like you misunderstood. I can see how you confused that though.

[obtuse cloud]

Can u tell nhk I said hi

[crystal quartz]

Like none of what i have said is wrong. This is all true. Acolyte has a wide vareity of tools that would put it in a jack of all trades spot with good healing and good damage, but unable to match the top damage and top supports. Elder call completely messes this up by making acolyte always good to have basically no matter what. This is a problem that immediatly needs to be addresed before ec itself is touched. With the ritualist reworks and the vulnerability adjusted or removed. its very possible that ec ends up being fine. We kinda just have to wait and see.

[shell kestrel]

its straight up ragebait

[orchid kestrel]

the quadrouple down or whatever

[crystal quartz]

In a vaccuum acolyte still should be very powerful but it just depends. No more vulnerability and motl possibly being taken from other archetypes is a pretty big nerf.

Just gotta wait and see. But how i see it, vulnerability is the biggest issue right now, other then its range of course.

[obtuse cloud]

I think the problem might be the 840% Spell mult (on single target) with armor break and the insane aoe that it might as well be a domain expansion

[shell kestrel]

its a healing issue

[obtuse cloud]

Oh yeah don't worry about shaman having high base dps that's not really dwbi

[crystal quartz]

Doesnt blood sorrow do more damage.

[orchid kestrel]

ec still needs to be strong btw since pre ec aco was incredibly shit

[obtuse cloud]

I mean probably but just tune numbers down abit imo at least

[ebon ridge]

bsorrow costs more than double the blood, is a medium range beam, has low aoe and lasts for half the duration

[orchid kestrel]

yea

[warm bough]

Nah no way

[glad crater]

that and move the amour break somewhere else in the tree

[crystal quartz]

Blood sorrow always has felt so clunky to me. Idk maybe its just cause it feels weak just cause the effects are kinda wimpy but.

[glad crater]

Like I keep suggesting to move it to lashing lance or something

[ebon ridge]

yes because it’s not that strong outside of reso

[obtuse cloud]

Bsorrow only does any meaningful dmg on reso from what I've seen maybe just buff base bsorrow and nerf reso mid to compensate

[glad crater]

It would help reso and it would also give Acolytes Uproot more of a direct purpose

[ebon ridge]

wouldn’t need to nerf mid since the mid directly overwrites what bsorrow does p sure

[crystal quartz]

Blood sorrows whole thing was bleeding before was it not. And then they took that away sk now its just akward.

[glad crater]

but I would imagine it would need to be something like a build up to the -20%

[obtuse cloud]

Also they killed fallen armor break for being 100% uptime and eventually fuck off to heal back up but this is just a matter of can the acolyte count to 10 to refresh ec

[obtuse cloud]

Oh no idea how it works tbh ngl

[crystal quartz]

30 blood each is just so incredibly low

[agile crypt]

the duration and overhealth gain are phrased to alter the base ability so it would need rewording

[ebon ridge]

they killed it because fallen is supposed to be selfish

[crystal quartz]

Its so easy to apply it has infinite up time it comes along with an already powerful attack. It reaches across the whole arena.

[stiff oracle]

I suggested halved radius and 760% damage I think that should make it relevant enough considering that should be accompanied by fixing aspect of the emanant

[crystal quartz]

It cant really be overridden as there are like 2 things that armour break.

[ebon ridge]

dtotem should have a max of 15 block ec

[obtuse cloud]

I mean yea I think all this has been said before

[orchid kestrel]

ye halved radius and fixed aspect seems fair

[agile crypt]

why does EC havea unique range when it is tied to the totem, just make it reach in totem range

[stiff oracle]

blood sorrow is very relevant even without applying bleeding, I personally did not play when sorrow applied bleeding so I think a lot of people are coping because they can't abuse bleeding with masks

[ebon ridge]

you absolutely can

[obtuse cloud]

Prob to compensate for not being able to throw totems again so it would actually be cancer if u had to reposition it every time

[ebon ridge]

just melee like.. ever

[stiff oracle]

yeah, just kinda sucks sag strike is bound to attack speed 🌝

[crystal quartz]

Its just so fuckin stupid just bring big mac aco into raid. Never die. Constantly have vuln up. Someone cook up a hadal beefy build rq so you can just instantly heal up any damage with aura.

[ebon ridge]

truth nuke

although it’s only shit on hadal

[agile crypt]

maybe true, unfortunately this might just be a "unnecessarily bandaiding skill issues" thing plus there are nodes/aspects to improve totem reach

[stiff oracle]

abso titano (literally i switched to shawl of gaea so i could melee)

[orchid kestrel]

are we just hating on support builds now

[crystal quartz]

But aco isnt just support

[orchid kestrel]

crazy how you can bring monster lb to a raid and give people a 40% dmg buff and never die

[crystal quartz]

Aco doesnt need to put in any effort for its support.

[stiff oracle]

okay WHAT 😭

[orchid kestrel]

it is one if you play burger lmfao

[ebon ridge]

support in this game means unkillable for some reason

[stiff oracle]

this is not right

[agile crypt]

Aco support comes free with your class because your archetype's gimmick forces you to interact with it to live

[crystal quartz]

You just play the game like you normally would

The issue simply is that there simply is very little downside to acos support.

[ebon ridge]

yeah because they don’t want you to do a little dance to get your support abilities

[crystal quartz]

60 blood takes like 3 seconds with double totem.

[ebon ridge]

you just get it as a part of your kit

that’s just kind of how “supporting” works in this game

[agile crypt]

SShrine is aoe and your main (only?) way to actually not bleed to death (ignore the Beamspam Reso setups that spend Overhealth for a moment)

[crystal quartz]

Now it being easy to apply wouldnt be an issue if it werent coming with a very strong attack with essentially infinite range for the purpouses of raiding.

[ebon ridge]

you should see how lightbender “supports”

[crystal quartz]

With an aco on your team in graid you will be hard pressed to find a moment where that 20% isnt up.

[stiff oracle]

shaman has 60% base resistance, ec and blood sorrow literally cost chunks of your health, and if you heal inbetween you are risking breaking the uptime of bs+ec if you don't play well

the only argument that i can agree with for "shaman doesn need effort for its support" is vengeful spirit and i will keep saying that i think VS should be universal (think windy feet on archer) instead of acolyte bound

[agile crypt]

LB support is nearly identical to Aco support, the main difference is LB is "easier to use" but Aco's is actually relevant

[ebon ridge]

or how paladin supports

support in this game just means the game on easy mode, acolyte isn’t as easy as other classes

[crystal quartz]

Yeah but paladin is kind of out of meta rn isnt it? Isnt shade like. The tank or smth. With the clone jitsu or whatever.

[ebon ridge]

blood management is kind of real on non abso

[crystal quartz]

And also does like a bajillion damage.

[orchid kestrel]

this game has a heavy emphesis on solo gameplay so you'll never find an "involved support" like youd find in other games

[stiff oracle]

this is me when i say the truth, it's so easy to neglect any thought of your pool when your healing is straight up doubled

[orchid kestrel]

its all passive basically

[digital seal]

Support is the easiest role in any game except maybe tf2

[ebon ridge]

i’m going to be honest, you need to play the game more

[digital seal]

Lets not beat around the bush here

[crystal quartz]

Well with motl and elder call you are kind of just doing 55% more damage for free

[ebon ridge]

and stop making feedback posts

[crystal quartz]

Well not free but. It is not that big a downside

[stiff oracle]

EC isnt free, but i will agree on mask

[ebon ridge]

it gets harder the higher elos you get in other games

when you’re expected to fulfill an actual role rather than being a heal bot

[crystal quartz]

Tf2 support is hard because medic depends almost entirely on his team to keep alive.

[ebon ridge]

wynn isn’t a team game

every class is designed to be self sufficient for some reason

[stiff oracle]

this is also minecraft and there are obvious limitations on what you can and can't do, and wynn being solo friendly is very good as a lot of people don't have people to play with

[ebon ridge]

not to mention how toxic pfinder would be if there was roles

[obtuse cloud]

"Supposed to be"

[agile crypt]

Archer without Laby Divzer Epoch:

[digital seal]

Nah its literally just cuz sniper and spy exists

[crystal quartz]

We do not put role que in this game.

[obtuse cloud]

We need raid elo

[ebon ridge]

it’s clear ct doesn’t even believe archer is in a bad state

[stiff oracle]

it kinda is, if you ignore archer of course!

[crystal quartz]

Well medic depends on the team to keep those in check.

[ebon ridge]

ok then acolyte “support” needs to be part of the kit

[agile crypt]

somehow a consistent occurence across games/servers

[orchid kestrel]

i think they do but they have said that other classes have had priority ig

[stiff oracle]

i dont think this statement is completely correct but they are certainly neglecting some blatant issues

[orchid kestrel]

its volunteers and i think they just dont have a archer fanatic lmao

[crystal quartz]

I dont think the play is to take out the support, i simply think it should be somewhat toned down.

[ebon ridge]

had a whole discussion about how there are 3 total usable archer mythics and somehow the take from ct was that the non usable ones were ina good spot and don’t need more damage

[orchid kestrel]

doom

[ebon ridge]

sure but then it has to be literally part of the gameplay loop

[stiff oracle]

this was kinda sad as this is really only the case with archer lol

[ebon ridge]

whole reason why paladin is unpopular is because half of its late game nodes are entirely for the team

and the one damaging ability is one of the dumbest to exist

[stiff oracle]

me when big mac should be playing the support archetype and it instead plays the broken damage one

[crystal quartz]

Shaman progression is so ass btw like. Its whatever you can scorunge up. Then water relic relik until you get thousamd waves. And then you get to the point where you switch weapons a few times we getting somewhere. And then you hit 105 and its morph overdrive till you get a mythic.

[agile crypt]

I NEED to see SpellSharp performance numbers

[ebon ridge]

sacred surge 1200% spell mult 💜

[stiff oracle]

this is just wrong, you should take a look at the end game reliks, shaman weapons (yes, non mythics) have insane base dps

[shell kestrel]

this is a self report on major levels

[agile crypt]

the humble Panic Zealot:

[digital seal]

Can you link this please 😭

[orchid kestrel]

shaman weapon meta is decently cool

[digital seal]

I need to see ts

[crystal quartz]

There is good stuff in endgame. However outside of that

[ebon ridge]

if you play to literally only power level no kidding

[agile crypt]

Shaman weapon meta is the best among the classes for sure

[stiff oracle]

#1265241987771006976 message somewhere around here

[orchid kestrel]

reso oly hadal pz is the main ones

[crystal quartz]

Like thousand waves just was the best thing sround for so long

[agile crypt]

the other classes either have hardly any options or hardly any good options

[crystal quartz]

I go to dungeon. Look at relik. See - spell damage %. I cri. I slump away with thousand waves in hand.

[digital seal]

😭😭😭😭

[orchid kestrel]

u could play tachy when leveling

[digital seal]

Speechbubbling ts

[ebon ridge]

this is just not true

[orchid kestrel]

tachy is awesome

[ebon ridge]

#1265241987771006976 message

[crystal quartz]

Oh i built some tachy but the blood pool bug just was to much for me.

[ebon ridge]

it’s not a bug…?

[orchid kestrel]

thats intentional

[ebon ridge]

i explained this to you already???? it doubles totem speed = doubles blood drain

[agile crypt]

do we know this guy's hallucinogen rotation?

[crystal quartz]

No. Ok so. Hold onto tachy. Build blood pool. Switch to a different item. Blood pool is gone now

[stiff oracle]

i think their spirit was in the right place truthfully but they just didn't know what they were talking about

[orchid kestrel]

yea thats on purpose

[stiff oracle]

perhaps this is the real problem lol

[obtuse cloud]

Yo wtf

[agile crypt]

I'm being so fr rn how does one even come to the conclusion that Archer is stable rn 😭 like I suspend the fuck out of my expectations and still get disappointed when I try anything that isn't the "I am a dps statstick" weapons

[ebon ridge]

i think paladin is the most represented btw

[crystal quartz]

Well they could have at least let me use potions. It seemed alot like a bug but i may be wrong.

[orchid kestrel]

good archer weapons; divzer, laby (kinda), uhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[ebon ridge]

epoch usable

[stiff oracle]

epoch is alright but truthfully thats because eta has far more tierstack support than anything else

[digital seal]

Ok we all know that ct isnt one monolithic entity but Cmon

[ebon ridge]

gma usable

[crystal quartz]

Can we tall about how goated thousand waves is though

[shell kestrel]

how do we know it isn't

[ebon ridge]

it sure feels like it when paladin gets like a million reworks and then archer gets 1 grape bomb moved from aspect to base

[stiff oracle]

i really wonder if people would think trapper is in a good state if it wasn't for laby

[agile crypt]

epoch is entry level archer (and TCC) then laby divzer is the actual options

[crystal quartz]

Like thousand waves just feels so good to use

[ebon ridge]

yeah it’s fine

[stiff oracle]

it's certainly not as horrendously awful as sharp and bolt but still i think it could use a few small changes

[ebon ridge]

divzer and gma are fine

[orchid kestrel]

id probs put it highest in terms of archetype viability

[ebon ridge]

unfortunately that is your only options

[crystal quartz]

Trapper looks really cool and i heard on forums at some point that its raid meta is this factual.

[orchid kestrel]

no

[stiff oracle]

is this laby or no laby..

[ebon ridge]

log off the sugvon forum post

[orchid kestrel]

no laby

[stiff oracle]

do people use nemesis with gma trapper

tjat could actually work perhaps

[orchid kestrel]

idk probs?

[crystal quartz]

Trappers in pfinder just be straight jorkin it i swear like. They just fuckin stand still and set the traps and thats it.

[digital seal]

I mean if you ask me im willing to bet a large chunk of the hundred or something ct iirc are inactive lmao but this is really just conjecture

I could very well be wrong on this ct amount estimate tho

[crystal quartz]

And then i gotta come in with my gigachad pbomb and show em how its done before fucking up my macro and dying horribly.

[wind egret]

Yeah mods just lock ts, I don't think anything said here is related to the original post anymore...

[gloomy hinge]

From acolyte to archer 💔

[digital seal]

Alright let's ruin the fun

[wind egret]

From Eldritch Call to jorking in pfinder 💔

[agile crypt]

tbf it's not like they can push the mob into the trap they just kinda walk around and let the mob kill themself on the trap

[digital seal]

@torn path Hello Vro ❤️

[orchid kestrel]

close it pls

[wind egret]

Eldritch Call to Call Shadow

[crystal quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-menacingly-spongebob-standing-there-gif-19452999

[digital seal]

https://tenor.com/view/camboysminaj-gif-16120970053004263135

[shell kestrel]

😭

the hero user is saying other subclasses require no skill

[crystal quartz]

I do not own a hero.

[ebon ridge]

you do know you’re supposed to cycle 2/3 totems and then an aura on pbomb right

[shell kestrel]

the fallen user

[crystal quartz]

I more so meant i click my macro to fast causing it to mess up and them instantly die

[ebon ridge]

i’m just checking because the only video i found of your gameplay has you casting 14 totems in a row

[orchid kestrel]

taught by the great olinus maybe

[agile crypt]

Fallen players learning the hard way that they cannot spam Air Shout to win arguments

[ebon ridge]

pz cycle

[stiff oracle]

there is indeed a lot of ct but a small portion of them are actually working on AT since there are like so many areas in wynn that are worked on at once

[ebon ridge]

idk how large the ability team is

@little harness how big is the ability team

[shell kestrel]

its quite big but its split

[crystal quartz]

Well it was like 4 am

[digital seal]

Yo dawg what if we used kotlin or lua instead of a bespoke inhouse scripting language that apparently did not have basic math functions implemented until recently according to samsam

[orchid kestrel]

idk i think they are busy with fruma lmao

[little harness]

relatively small

[ebon ridge]

something something dev time to rewrite something something

[little harness]

there is also not really overlap between IMs and AT for hte most part

[crystal quartz]

The ability team and the item team being split is so fuckin stupid btw just gotta say.

[ebon ridge]

would take too long!

[ebon ridge]

yea ngl very obviously

[stiff oracle]

me when i lie because you are literally doing everything at once

this might just be a linny thing tho

[crystal quartz]

WHICH IS SO DUMB.

[ebon ridge]

despite the fact that they are actively shooting themsevles in the foot by digging themselves in this hole deeper

[little harness]

other than me 💀 but i dont like. love doing at stuff. it burns me out sooo fast. i just have Opinions on things

[ebon ridge]

opinions from not doing legendary island all day

you a fake im

[little harness]

who is doing legendary island in the big 25

[crystal quartz]

Like the abilities are so integral to the game. Ability could be fine but at is making an item that gives it a bajillion damage. Now you have a situation of do you nerf the item or the ability? Welp who fuckin knows THEY DONT TALK TO EACHOTHER AAAAH.

[ebon ridge]

idk cuz i know they’re not raiding

[little harness]

if u need anything from it still u just throw on the slop tank build and facetank every boss for an 8min clear

[crystal quartz]

This makes me very upsetti spaghetti.

[orchid kestrel]

yesterday i was carrying someone in li and i had the great displeasure of soloing cybel on guard

shitass sub 100k dps build

[ebon ridge]

how many of the ability tree team or item team actively raid

[little harness]

there is an issue with it but it is not this one

[ebon ridge]

i think i’ve literally only seen like euoeueo in raid

[steady jackal]

"Beat out in support by stuff like Lightbender" I can already tell you don't know what you're talking about

[little harness]

define actively i think most of them are too employed and or whimsical to run 30 notg a day

but iirc most of them like. Do Raids

[ebon ridge]

like idk 30 raids a week

[little harness]

dawg i dont do 30 raids a week..

[ebon ridge]

also if ur running notg actively you need to be removed from the team

[little harness]

ok i mean if i was raiding i would be tbh 30 is not alot

[orchid kestrel]

i hate notg

[little harness]

WHAT i pioneered level scale notg

[orchid kestrel]

levelscale is dead sorry

[little harness]

it was never about the efficiency... its about the swag..

[orchid kestrel]

no one wants to waste their money anymore 💔

[ebon ridge]

ct and implicit in walling 💔

[little harness]

I DIDNT WALL!!!

[orchid kestrel]

fire..

[crystal quartz]

Yeah exxagerating ofc but. Ability makes and item makers should be either the same people, have people who do both which work closely with those who dont, or just. Idk i guess just better communication.

[little harness]

i mean. how do you know what the communication is like lol

[crystal quartz]

Well you did say they barely overlap

[little harness]

also i cant lie doing both IM and AT is a fucking job

like i dont REally do at stuff partially cause its just too much

[agile crypt]

possibly inferred from how absolutely excellent the state of balance and item/ability interaction is as observed in game 🔥

[little harness]

so real

[orchid kestrel]

i dont think the split is too bad, since in most cases its pretty apparent whether an item or an archetype is weak

[steady jackal]

It came to me in a dream

[little harness]

yeah idk i think its actually been better recently but there was a period of time where the comms were kinda cooked

[digital seal]

Boiling blood apoc

[crystal quartz]

Listen you cannot tell me shit like hero or reso came from good communication. They were smokin something there.

[little harness]

my biggest problem with the at team is them being Freaky with it

[ebon ridge]

you don’t even have a reso 😭

[robust lagoon]

im a main support in everygame (and healer) and we are not hating supports, but the role that they have is very simple, not complex enough in most cases, heal need to be nerfed as a base and make it more engaging

[crystal quartz]

They should make me the item maker i would just like throw darts at a board.

[little harness]

oh god

[digital seal]

Archer tree so full of hype moments and aura

[ebon ridge]

anything is better than titanomachia “design”

[agile crypt]

promote me to at I will replace every node with 2nd spell nodes

[robust lagoon]

like even the riskier part of acolyte is pretty safe compared to other games where the support is vulnerable almost at everymoment

[digital seal]

Ghostly trigger so fye

[crystal quartz]

Whats that item that makes it where you literally do no damage.

[little harness]

isnt ghostly trigger like literally just fine if it has a shorter cooldown

[steady jackal]

Item stats are great

Item MID is terrible

[steady jackal]

No cool down and it's fun as hell

[agile crypt]

maybe ct is actually correct in that Archer is in a good state because the main gameplay loop isn't dealing damage it's aura farming

[little harness]

ok idk about no cooldown i might have to test that one .

[orchid kestrel]

it should just have no cooldown it would be cool

[ebon ridge]

low key why is the highest healing weapon also the tankiest

[crystal quartz]

Actually they should make me at and im i would just make everything be related to pbomber.

[ebon ridge]

that doesn’t actually make any sense

[orchid kestrel]

idk its kinda odd, ive always disliked abso

[digital seal]

No cooldown was how it worked in the first place before it had to be changed because of complaints apparently 😭

[little harness]

yknow thats kinda real what if i gave abso -hp

[stiff oracle]

i like titano but why does it just make other options irrelevant 😭 24 sp good mid insane damage stats 5k hp and not crazy reqs, i only cant call it op bc -crit%

[steady jackal]

Wtf why

[digital seal]

Probably because of the blizzard blaster exploit

[crystal quartz]

Make puppets always prioritize chasing enemies with strings of fste pleaase bro those morons come over to me to dang often.

[ebon ridge]

you might be executed in wynn main

[orchid kestrel]

are u using commander

[little harness]

yea well also the problem was you could use grappling hook and get like 30 second slowfall it was so peak

[steady jackal]

its the only good fire item besides Cannonade lmao

[ebon ridge]

also wouldn’t matter

[crystal quartz]

No those dumbies just like to follow me.

[void maple]

aura ragebait thread

[stiff oracle]

conflagrate could be nice if it for some reason did not have some random -1.8k hp

[ebon ridge]

since it would only affect healing other people it wouldn’t change the fact that abso is incredibly tanky and unkillable

[little harness]

real

[ebon ridge]

fire sanc and shawl are good

[digital seal]

#1391662967203823707 message

[robust lagoon]

because how badly design is healing, like there should be more scales for healing besides max hp

[stiff oracle]

sancs in general are goated, shawl of gaea is really the only competitor to titano because it has almost identical sp but titanos stats are juist insane

[ebon ridge]

yeah healing efficiency and water damage

? 😭

[robust lagoon]

those are not scales of healing, those are multipliers

[steady jackal]

Ghostly trigger isn't the fast fall thing, it's the "Instant twains arc" is it not? Why would people complain about a constant boost to your melee it's literally free DPS

[stiff oracle]

yeah water damage effecting heal is SUCH a good game design idea!! 👍

[agile crypt]

...that can multiply healing

[robust lagoon]

but is not the base of healing, works different

also fluid healing is a crappy design choice

[agile crypt]

what difference does that make

[ebon ridge]

that would not change a fucking thing

it would just add more healing bloat

we do not need heff% and heff raw dawg

[robust lagoon]

there are not many healing mechanics tho

[stiff oracle]

in fact we should give every archetype access to fluid healing and add it to archer assassin and warrior just for fun

[robust lagoon]

like other games have more healing mechanics, even minecraft servers

[ebon ridge]

there needs to be less healing not more ways to reward brain dead immortal gameplay

[robust lagoon]

Wynncraft doesn't offer much to roles like tanks or healers, like only 1-3 MiD are tank related

[stiff oracle]

imo health pots in wynncraft are very op but i dont think thats a discussion i want to start

[orchid kestrel]

cus wynncraft is a solo game and not a team game

[robust lagoon]

thats what im saying

[little harness]

yea this is its own like 4k message thread im ngl

[ebon ridge]

ok so you don’t want wars because it’s solo content but you want more tanks and supports. for what

[robust lagoon]

no, i don't like wars because of how limited it is

in the case of builds

[orchid kestrel]

limited how

[stiff oracle]

i think i have a new leak

[ebon ridge]

ok so what do you want tanks and supports to do in this game

[little harness]

pray tell

[robust lagoon]

WE, Raids, even LR if LR duo is going to be developed, Quests, Grinding

[stiff oracle]

on fruma release alta is going to unblock me

[robust lagoon]

Boss altars

[ebon ridge]

not what content what mechanics would tanks and supports have

[little harness]

surely

[ebon ridge]

obviously they would do the content in the game 😭

[robust lagoon]

agresive healing mechanics could be an example

[ebon ridge]

twisted tether

[ebon ridge]

this is in a pvp game bro

how would you implement that in this game well

[robust lagoon]

same way, this item is on PvE maps too

[ebon ridge]

So your idea to improve supports is to give them damage

[robust lagoon]

nope

[ebon ridge]

and to give extra healing

[robust lagoon]

nope

[ebon ridge]

for hitting the enemy.

[robust lagoon]

read again the whole comment

[ebon ridge]

i know what echoes of helia does bro

[stiff oracle]

i think they just want it to be more engaging but frankly i dont think it should be that complicated on something like lightbender

[robust lagoon]

read again then because you didn't read before that

[ebon ridge]

aggressive healing

[robust lagoon]

before darling

[digital seal]

Im ngl theres just not enough scales of different damage and resistance types to justify more varied support

Like physical types you see in warframe and crap like that

[ebon ridge]

what am i supposed to be fucking reading

[robust lagoon]

scroll a little bit more dear

[ebon ridge]

?

[orchid kestrel]

ok now keep in mind that its a pve game where players levelling will be playing solo 90% of the time

[digital seal]

The least they could do is make lb less brainless

[robust lagoon]

yes, is part of the issue

[ebon ridge]

im asking you what it is you want

[robust lagoon]

im not a tiktok resume little boy

[ebon ridge]

do you want to like say your piece or just tell me to read useless shit

[agile crypt]

why are we suddenly full of malice

[digital seal]

That and aco changes, might as well just make a new class with all 3 archetypes as support oriented atp 😭

[tacit flume]

https://tenor.com/view/foxxochan-wynncraft-gif-7822671465078224897

[stiff oracle]

i dont think aco's healing is a problem

[ebon ridge]

healing efficiency should just never reach over 40%

[stiff oracle]

it's certainly far more engaging than lightbender

but i don't think that's a problem, and neither is lightbender being a "simple" healer

[ebon ridge]

lightbender is definitely a simple healer what

it’s part of your gameplay loop to just spam heals

[stiff oracle]

yes? i said i don't think that's a problem

[robust lagoon]

yeah, and most things that LB do is not fully supportive, like a lot of their nodes are not as related as they should

[digital seal]

I wonder if theres a mythic wand that just shits out water damage for like a specific at node

[wind egret]

I think the problem is that aco excels in every aspect of combat and the game except movement

[ebon ridge]

oh my bad i thought you meant it’s not a simple healer idk why i read that

[wind egret]

Unlike half the archetypes that are barely good at one thing

[ebon ridge]

idk i think lightbender and aco have way too much healing for no reason

you should never have so much healing that you win if you don’t die in one hit

[robust lagoon]

and also their dmg is AoE so is usable at any type of content

[stiff oracle]

lightbender should remain simple and frankly if you attempt to make the healing mechanic more complex a lot of people are going to be unhappy if the core spell of the archetype works differently

[stiff oracle]

i think it's much more blatant on lightbender, but on aco it's really only abso

[ebon ridge]

yeah

[stiff oracle]

you reasonably can't heal a good amount on aco without abso without sacrificing all your damage/qol

[ebon ridge]

but the difference between non abso and abso is so crazy

it’s like unbelievable how it’s just… allowed

[stiff oracle]

yep, kinda crazy that the water damage removal turning into heff was literally a buff since if you rolled max water damage it would be equal to 78% heff unlike the 100% that it has now

[ebon ridge]

it kinda made sense when shaman healing was literally only regen totem

[agile crypt]

bring back TRift Totem dupe

[robust lagoon]

actually that works different

[agile crypt]

let me thrive in my 24 totem web of free health insurance

[ebon ridge]

but somehow we have better king of hearts on a damage weapon 😂

[surreal kelp]

Is KoH even used anymore?

[ebon ridge]

no

[surreal kelp]

What a shame, it was a funny gimmick

[ebon ridge]

cuz lb has so much healing anyways

[robust lagoon]

in the case of LB it buffs the spell heal, not your healing sources (which is what HE does), meaning that is a multiplicative buff (still a poorly designed gimmick)

[surreal kelp]

Why KoH didn’t turn into a fabled and get a cool MID is beyond me

[digital seal]

Does mage really need an infinite healing source or do we just slap in a charge or decaying healing system

[ebon ridge]

healing effectiveness does not give you extra healing from external sources 😂

[robust lagoon]

you clearly don't know how to read

[ebon ridge]

it only affects heal

[robust lagoon]

heal spell is different to healing

[ebon ridge]

what would be the actual difference

[stiff oracle]

i dont think heff is bad design its really just fluid healing and abso having crazy amounts of it

[surreal kelp]

Idk what healing efficiency means, I just assumed it made it heal faster

[ebon ridge]

% healing increase

[stiff oracle]

heal more

[robust lagoon]

healing increase and increased healing cap

[surreal kelp]

Dope, did they get rid of the water damage thing? I never checked tbh

[ebon ridge]

also he was talking about how old water damage conversion worked

[agile crypt]

when healed, heal more/less depending on if that modifier is positive or negative

[ebon ridge]

and you’re talking about fluid healing for absolutely 0 reason

[surreal kelp]

I only heal with paladin

[robust lagoon]

im talking about this, do you know how to scroll darling?

[surreal kelp]

What’s the hard cap on HE, just as a reference. I don’t really build healer

[agile crypt]

afaik no cap, have fun

[ebon ridge]

bro do you know how old water damage conversion worked

[robust lagoon]

no cap

[surreal kelp]

🧢!

[ebon ridge]

😭😭😭😭😭 you actually might be stupid

[robust lagoon]

it does have a -100% negative cap only

[stiff oracle]

i was referring to the water damage value on absolution being 260% at max which means if you rolled a max wd% abso it would equal to 78% heff, unlike the possible roll of 100% it has now

[ebon ridge]

you could never actually reach that since water damage healing was capped btw

[robust lagoon]

but is better to have more hp once you reach 100% or close to that range

[ebon ridge]

at like 150%

[stiff oracle]

that just makes even less sense as why they would change this to 100% at max 😭

[surreal kelp]

Cannot wait to use this knowledge on another suspended soliloquy riftbender build

[ebon ridge]

@robust lagoon thoughts?

[robust lagoon]

thats why abso is so busted, not because of HE but also because it gives tons of hp

[stiff oracle]

erm what,,,

[ebon ridge]

genius

[crystal quartz]

Abso kinda mid

[stiff oracle]

that is directly because of heff

[ebon ridge]

surely that 3k health matters on a 20k build

[stiff oracle]

sometimes i geniuenly want to believe people dont want to troll on the internet but i guess everyone has surprises

[crystal quartz]

Its just a solid all around weapon. Its not bad. Just better options.

[surreal kelp]

What if you’re fighting PZ and need more convenience

[robust lagoon]

it is beacause of most abso builds have higher hp, since is fire related...

[ebon ridge]

it’s incredibly stupid for what it does

[robust lagoon]

im talking also about the full build of an usual abso

[ebon ridge]

you exchange high damage for basically being unkillable

[stiff oracle]

and it's also because the double healing not only makes healing (a very strong mechanic in wynncraft) basically double, it also directly means that you need to worry far less about your blood pool

[crystal quartz]

I mean yeah the beam spam is silly but idk so is pbombwr and reso on a larger scale.

[ebon ridge]

it’s not beam spam

[stiff oracle]

in abso's case it's not even "exchanging high damage" since im literally reaching 200k rn aspectless 😭

[ebon ridge]

it’s sit there wait for your next ec and cast aura and like maybe blood sorrow whenever you generate enough blood

blood sorrow optional

[crystal quartz]

Maybe my teamates are just stupid then cause thats like all they do with it.

[ebon ridge]

probably

[crystal quartz]

Pfinder gonna pfind i suppose

[ebon ridge]

the general playerbase of wynn just looks at sugvon build page and picks up the build zero idea how to play it and just sprints it

like at the very least click on the video 😭

the amount of abso players i’ve seen that only like put down totems and aura is baffling

[stiff oracle]

the video isnt much helpful either since its a 90 second clip of attacking a dummy

[ebon ridge]

it’s not like a huge amount but it is nonzero

[ebon ridge]

that is actually very fair

[crystal quartz]

Good to see this is a thing in both terraria and wynncraft

[stiff oracle]

at least i didnt find it useful when i came back after 3 years considering that literally everything in the game was changed, so a new player probably has the same prespective if they haven't started endgame content

[crystal quartz]

HEY GUYS DID YOU KNOW THAT THE DRAGONS FURY ACTUALLY DOES MORE DAMAGE THEN THE TERRABLADE. ITS EVEN A GOOD WEAPON FOR MOONLORD.

[ebon ridge]

it’s only useful to learn like the very basics of what your abilities do and very little on how to pilot in content

[crystal quartz]

LOOK AT THE DAMAGE ON THESE DUMMIES. WOW!

[ebon ridge]

and more complex stuff like blood management is just completely lost

[surreal kelp]

Most new players have, at least, played up to the point of being able to understand whatever concept SugVon is attempting to showcase through the playstyle

[ebon ridge]

coulda fooled me

i saw a couple hero players straight raw stackin it

[surreal kelp]

Maybe they don’t speak English, that could always be a factor

[ebon ridge]

who cares about air shout nah we left click

[stiff oracle]

perhaps, but if i click on a summoner tutorial which seems good i go like alright lets give this a try and then i realize wait this archetype literally cannot be played in tcc

[ebon ridge]

honestly kind of makes sense since all of hero items are raw stack but like 😭😭😭😭

[ebon ridge]

a mistake we all make once 😭

[stiff oracle]

or the fact that in something like TNA you have to actually use your brain to get value from summons

[surreal kelp]

I got into a party with some French players, and they didn’t understand anything I was saying until I just listed a bunch of languages and they picked French

Poor guys were lollygagging in TNA soul shrubs

[stiff oracle]

but tbh thats a content lock issue so i cant blame that creator

[robust lagoon]

is very common, when i was 12 i couldn't complete any single quest bc of language barrier

didn't even knew that quest existed outside of ragni ones

[ebon ridge]

there was this one japanese streamer who kept calling the tna soul shrub room the damage farm room because all the pfinders do is farm in that room

[surreal kelp]

I play EU servers a ton, and I run into the language barrier thing a lot

[ebon ridge]

insta kill soul shrubs who care

[robust lagoon]

and the game is not very intuitive

[surreal kelp]

They understand English, a bit, but it’s a lot to expect from people who are google translating half the game

[robust lagoon]

ahhh

and google translate is actually an issue, is worse to do quest with that

[crystal quartz]

That room made me homicidal.

[surreal kelp]

Google translate plus Wynn is a match made in hell

[robust lagoon]

like locations or other stuff is poorly translated

[surreal kelp]

Most of the game isn’t translated, and there’s only a few language mods that are applicable. At least base Minecraft does a good enough job translating a lot of it

[robust lagoon]

like herb cave location, one friend translated it and said it was angel cave on SI

and went there at level 40

[ebon ridge]

it’s even worse because of the shit formatting wynn text has

and all the special characters

[robust lagoon]

and also, there is not a single mod that also translate items and IDs

[surreal kelp]

Holy moly trying to explain the rules of TNA in French is infuriating without being as simple as possible. Idk what soul shrub means in French, I didn’t need to know it 😭

[robust lagoon]

correctly

[ebon ridge]

wynntils auto translate doesn’t even work

[ebon ridge]

i mean surely u just use the english names at that point it’s not like they’re going to see a different name for them right

[robust lagoon]

and if i was a non-english speaker, i wouldn't even use google translator because of how it would be breaking immersion

[surreal kelp]

That’s doesn’t mean anything to em, though, because soul shrub needs context next to an objective. The best I can say is kill that thing

[ebon ridge]

theres no point in translating items

[surreal kelp]

Oh god build diversity, too

[ebon ridge]

they can read names surely 😭😭

[surreal kelp]

Not an 11 year child no

[robust lagoon]

yeah, most hispanic builds were rainbow till 2.0 because most ppl didn't even know about crafted items or how does SP works

[robust lagoon]

yes, this the connotation is very important

[ebon ridge]

it’s not like item names tell you their stats nor does understanding english actually tell you how damage calculations are done

it’s confusing because the documentation isn’t there

but also wynn dgaf about any mod support so any chance of adding a real translation mod will never happen

[surreal kelp]

Can’t wait for Serbian to finally be an option for translation in Wynn

[normal moss]

wow this might actually be the most dogshit take i have seen come out of a CT member

[ebon ridge]

linny 30 worse ones

[surreal kelp]

I’m one of the few people who believes old Dullahan was more conceptually interesting than current Dullahan. We’ve all got a take or two

[robust lagoon]

Dullahan is kinda hot

[surreal kelp]

Neither a confirmation or denial from me

[normal moss]

b-b-but strati has speed and spring has mana regen!!!! surely archer can't be that bad right guys?

[surreal kelp]

Anyone actively defending spring…

I got better utility and fun out of watchmen’s vendetta lmao

[robust lagoon]

spring could be adapted to a supportive playstyle they game a MiD related to something like heal or something

like make traps heal once they explote (max mana scale would be dope since is capped to 400)

[surreal kelp]

Gulp

[ebon ridge]

dawg

[robust lagoon]

like just for fun

just bc spring is shit

[surreal kelp]

Man, spring is just a boring item en general

Truly, a product of 1.14

[robust lagoon]

remember when before his buff, crafted spring was way better?

[ebon ridge]

it’s still just better

pretending slow enemies and weaken enemies is useful is just 😭😭😭

[robust lagoon]

they nerfed crafted too

[stiff oracle]

nerfing crafted does not make spring better

just means the gap between them is smaller but yeah slow is useless overall cuz CCI and weaken is like why is this thing on a water mythic and a bow especially

[crystal quartz]

Gentlepersons we gotta keep pushing to make an unbeatable feedback thread messave count record

[surreal kelp]

I do, I used it

It’s not only outclassed offensively and supportively, but it’s also outdone conceptually. It’s just a boring ah water bow with no real identity, having no real place in the lore of the world

Lore rework, alongside a cool MiD or something, please

[digital seal]

Powder special mid

Curse now does 300% water damage in a radius thats main attack damage

[surreal kelp]

I was thinking it’d prolly just be some kind of mass weakening/slowness thing, with a bit of water damage added in for good measure

[crystal quartz]

Hadal stocks skyrocket

She was an abso girl. I was a hadal gal.

Can it really work out?

[tacit flume]

no

[robust lagoon]

resonance hybrid build stonks

[night surge]

Remove fluid healing btw

[obtuse cloud]

When will u bee freed

[night surge]

https://tenor.com/view/i-got-plans-that-im-not-going-to-share-i-got-plans-mischievous-gif-26380436

[little harness]

this guy would never evade

[night surge]

When will you bee free

I still dk what you got banned for

[obtuse cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/yoyo-white-cat-tiktok-silly-cat-car-gif-5886769307141897158

[night surge]

https://tenor.com/view/cuh-car-cat-cat-meme-gif-1521912518589537786

[steady jackal]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/262010576295821312/1104205684167413840/quest-item.gif