Rework for Abilities

[hasty drum]

what

[buoyant nacelle]

These sound like cool abilities that could just be added to our trees themselves

Don't see a need to rework how spells work for this. Also there's only 1/4 spells that isn't an attacking one

[eager whale]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1070342880939483196/1093206950747046079/whar.gif

[remote hollow]

Yeah I think we should add a new class instead

[eager whale]

add druid

[remote hollow]

perhaps a martial artist

[frail maple]

assassin, shaman and warrior has 3 offensive spells so i think you might be unaware of multiple classes idk tho

[buoyant nacelle]

The Battlemonk in question

[west shard]

Does ir change the subject?

[warm forum]

An ally debuff might be the worst thing this game can experience

[wary remnant]

The archer in question

[warm forum]

Isn't that a bug ..

[west shard]

Yeah the point is if a spell is gonna be strong it should have a drawback

[warm forum]

don't put a drawback on other players 😭

[remote hollow]

playing archer without labyrinth debuffs your team anyway

[west shard]

15% defense reduction is no joke

[warm forum]

I did not ask for someone to give me 7.5% damage reduc they can give that to themselves

Besides what's an ally, a player in the same party or literally everyone in the game?

[west shard]

Also its up to devs how it will work

Party

[eager whale]

@warm forum can i have 7.5% damage debuff please?

[warm forum]

So I can just play with someone while outside the party for no penalty then ?

There's plenty non party required content

[west shard]

Uh may can have bottle of 7.5% defense reduction please?

[warm forum]

An ally debuff will hopefully never happen this would never work

[warm forum]

Yes sir.

[west shard]

I mean it would be tweaked alot

[eager whale]

thanks >.<

[west shard]

But the main thing is classes doesnt have a viable option for what they want

There is no flexibility on spells and its been like this since the games beginning

[remote hollow]

yeah why dont they add a skill tree that you know modifies spells to encourage a specific playstyle

[warm forum]

If the balancing route has to rely on giving other players a debuff then it isn't viable

[west shard]

Yeah there is different ways to give a drawback could just apply on you i mean if you know if you're gonna get a defense red and If youre still gonna step on it irs just on you

[wide hornet]

1. I love the idea of being able to reduce costs, but there are already tomes and it’s inbuilt into the tree
2. The modifications of the tree would be more effective in getting new abilities

[west shard]

Yeah i changed it again so i think this would be much better

[pine cypress]

and then there's ghostly trigger

[wary remnant]

Idk but archer is the only class that has self debuffs

I think archer is the only one that had a debuff bug too

[warm forum]

Oh idk doesn't sound bad if done right I just meant debuffing teammates is crazy

[west shard]

Only the player is much better

[wary remnant]

Negative stat scrolll 😭

[wary remnant]

Bomb arrow ahh 💀

It would need to be really strong

[warm forum]

We brewing the zhight herbal mix, stand by.

[wary remnant]

We about to get temp banned with this one 🗣️

[west shard]

No

[wary remnant]

How come

Some of the most powerful spells rn have no drawbacks

[west shard]

But wouldn't be defence decrease op?

[warm forum]

Maybe a crippling effect like mana sustain, HP regeneration, or walkspeed would be more impactful

Most people play really low EHP builds anyways when maximizing damage to the point where they'd get killed in 1 hit by most attacks

[west shard]

Yeah thats also true most of the builds has really low hp

[wary remnant]

15% isn’t that much

Ecall has 20% and it has no drawbacks

[west shard]

Even king of hearts build was like 6k, also gaining spell tomes according to tour archetype is much better ig, a lightbender shouldn't going around and spamming holy light pillars

1 to 3s is much better for PoL channeling is nice yes but most of the fights require alot of mobility

[chilly rain]

I'm confused on what this is supposed to accomplish ._.

Is this just supposed to change the base spells with spell tomes?

-# Just mainly confused on why this exactly is needed

[west shard]

It wont change current spells you will be able to change spells and upgrade them giving you variety on playstyle

[west shard]

I think just the spell variety is needed and current one is outdated

[chilly rain]

Wouldn't this also need major reworking of the current trees aswell though

Since a lot of nodes also directly impact the base spells

As term said before, if we were to ever do something like this, it'd just be better to make them normal nodes on the tree

[chilly rain]

-# Also the current base spells are all basically fine tbh

[west shard]

Using ability points on nodes wouldn't be a bad thing tho

[chilly rain]

Wdym?

[civic fractal]

yeeeaaah that's already what you do?

this thread is so fucking confusing wtf

[chilly rain]

Do you mean would or wouldn't

[west shard]

You already have lesser and lesser ability points to end of the game, i mean it could be a node but i think it shouldn't require ability point

Instead it should require a certain amount of archetype point

[chilly rain]

I mean, you could just adjust your tree. All archetypes do have some spare ap even if they take most of their nodes

[chilly rain]

I don't think we're able to make nodes free with how the tree works, iirc

And even then, even the base spells cost ap. Having random free nodes in the tree would just be out of place

[west shard]

Actually yeah youre right you will have plenty amount of ability point i just looked ip

[chilly rain]

Yes more variation and creativity is good but, personally I think that just making new nodes that add new features upon base spells would be better
-# Basically what is already done

[alpine kestrel]

a free node could help as a way to pick out how a player wants to have an ability be activated optionally, not impacting the rest

[west shard]

Having optional ability nodes as 1 point could fix the issue tbh

[chilly rain]

We do have those already

[west shard]

The problem is we don't have variety

[chilly rain]

?

There already is a lot of variety with all the different archetypes, spells and major ids

[west shard]

Variety to the base spells would be much better ig

[civic fractal]

the suggestion about changing a major aspect of the game

[chilly rain]

There is already a lot of nodes that directly change and impact the base spells

Masks, Ophaim, Whirlwind, Backstab and a few more

-# And a whole lot more that add major effects on top of base spells which basically completely change how they're used

[west shard]

Yes there is alot of those but there are not variety to them as different spells, sometimes i need more healing and i dont need ice snake i should be able to change it

[chilly rain]

Ice snake isn't supposed to be a healing spell though?

[civic fractal]

why should you be able to do that?

[west shard]

Why i shouldn't? I don't want to use ice snake and i want to change it

[civic fractal]

because the designers decided you shouldn't

[chilly rain]

Then you could just not use it

Not every single spell / ability should be useful for every single playstyle

[civic fractal]

wynn is and has always been been based on this 4 spells basis, and if you don't like that, wynn isn't for you

[west shard]

It just eats a spell slot and the player should be able to use another spell

[chilly rain]

Even if it's not good for one, there's multiple other ones that it's useful for. And even so, most archetypes still do have uses for all 4 of the base spells

[west shard]

We will have 4 spell in this too just you will change it

[chilly rain]

That'd just require us to completely change half the trees and mess up a whole lot of crosspathing

[west shard]

You know you can add it as one of the "optional" node

[civic fractal]

bro it would require you to completely change how the tree system works in the first place

[keen notch]

Or make a whole new system..

[chilly rain]

^

[chilly rain]

Which still needs us to rework how all other abilities that rely on that node, functions

[civic fractal]

I could see it working if each spell had its own tree, like other games do, but wynn isn't this kind of game, so womp womp

[remote hollow]

out of curiosity what level are you op

[west shard]

105 im grinding shaman

[warm forum]

Can't you just add a few more branches to allow spell skipping

[chilly rain]

Yes I do understand it's annoying not being able to really use a certain spell or ability with a playstyle, but that doesn't necessarily mean it requires it to be completely changed just so that playstyle can use it.

Certain things will always be bad depending on the situation unfortunately, but that's just how rpgs are at times.

[keen notch]

The nearest solution I could see with the current system could be to implement aspects (or tomes but harder) that change how a spell functions aka: emboldening cry debuffs enemies 8% instead of buffing allies.

[civic fractal]

ooor to give every archetype a use for all 4 spells

[remote hollow]

we all fixing flying kick

[chilly rain]

That'd just lead to a lot of new players getting confused and ending up skipping spells

[west shard]

That would break the tree