Three ideas that could significantly improve the state of economy on Wynncraft.

[red lantern]

but yeah nothings being shot down

[oblique pivot]

I see, I am hopeful for the future though with what you guys cook up

[glacial ruin]

they can only discuss if the current player opinion is good, or bad, and why

(imo)

@ tealycraft anyway, I just hope that yall come up with something for lootruns and mythics to solve these issues, because soon even more new mythics might start flooding the market

[red lantern]

why soon

[oblique pivot]

fruma, I assume, if those mythics are going to be obtainable through lootrunning means even

[modern rivet]

new frumian mythics

[glacial ruin]

for... reasons, I'M just saying, you'll see

[worthy ibex]

zamn this is still active

[glacial ruin]

oh hi T307

1k comments already yeah

[modern rivet]

im expecting atleast 10 new mythics 2 weapons for each class... reason... SE was 1 and annie is 1 but Fruma is a 10-15 level range

[modern rivet]

Dang

[dry dew]

its big problem

[red lantern]

interesting discussion tactic

[dry dew]

good thread

[modern rivet]

Can we get a corkain scrambler? [redistributes existing rolls aross stats] - 5% on each roll

[glacial ruin]

anyway its nothing illegal

[worthy ibex]

I think its important discussion when there is some consensus on economy

[dry dew]

i just played ts cutscene yesterday

[modern rivet]

Im unimpacted by mythic ecnomy rn due to selling nealy all of mine... So I probably have no grunds to stand upon.

[oblique pivot]

I left this thread earlier cause there was some guy ragebaiting in it but now its calmed down a bit n is chill

[worthy ibex]

well i urge disccusion to continue because each individual can only think so much on their own

good to share insights

[red lantern]

if theres some urgency here that i dont know about besides fruma (somehow) then i cant rlly discuss it without knowing

[glacial ruin]

no but ill just dm it

[dry dew]

share it with the rest of the class

[celest crystal]

what mythics are you flipping today

[tender trench]

i love doing 3 hour long lootruns going all the way to 100 challenges completed just to get like 400 effective pulls

[dry dew]

i saw like a youtube short where the guy did a 4hr long run to 100 challenges nad he had like 150pulls and 1 reroll

[worthy ibex]

whatever has consistent demand

[modern rivet]

none trying to just sell

[frosty jetty]

Rip warp prices again I’ll never sell my average warps now

[shadow summit]

Literally it's impossible to sell any average mythic

[pliant lantern]

💔

Unless you undersell crazy bad mythics just wont sell

[shadow summit]

Reduce rr prices for higher rrs, it'll give more incentive to do it

[frosty jetty]

And they be saying the eco is good 💔

[pliant lantern]

Galleon 40% oa [4] might be worth more at blacksmith than trade market ☠️

[shadow summit]

on gobb

I like the mythic scrapping system, I'd hope to get something better than insu and simus though

However if we do get augments, that would likely drive the price down

Which I think is better than having the mythics themselves be worthless

[pliant lantern]

Mythics made rarer but in turn we get better augments to get better rolls

[shadow summit]

I'm down for that

As it is right now, augments are almost never worth it

For new players it's almost a guaranteed money loss

[frosty jetty]

Mythic enhancement system

Where u scrap items of similar kind and upgrade ur weapon for example u scrap 4 warps to get a better warp

[shadow summit]

4 warps?

[frosty jetty]

And %ova would matter where the higher ova it would require less of said mythic

[glacial ruin]

but if augments become low value worth, say 32-64 LE per simulator, then that will bring down super good rolled mythic prices too, which is a bad thing

it will especially bring down shiny mythic prices, which would be really bad

[glacial ruin]

worst take ever, this would take chance out of the equation altogether

so nop, bad idea

[frosty jetty]

No no I don’t mean like it would increase ova but would introduce brand new mechanics and buffs to the game

[glacial ruin]

thats an even worse idea

making the "Normal" warp/mythics worse than the "new stats" one would make the "Normal" one almost worthless

[shadow summit]

Perhaps, but even at 1stx per I would never use them

[frosty jetty]

No that’s not what I mean as well

It’s where u say buy a very good warp and now u want to commit to it u use other warps scrapping them in a way and this will cost money to do to enhance the warp u want to keep, this will make it untradable(kinda like horses)

[glacial ruin]

and here I am, using 8 stacks LE on insulating hp regen tomes

[shadow summit]

The wealth gap is real

[glacial ruin]

making them untradable is a bad idea, it limits your choices/forces you to commit to an item, and still, if it makes the warp better than it was in any way, then other people will only buy warps to upgrade their untradable warp lol...

[shadow summit]

Insu tomes is actually somewhat worth though

[glacial ruin]

actually I'm just bad with money management I guess

I barely have 10-20 stacks LE at once

[frosty jetty]

Yea but that’s not bad isn’t it? It creates a demand for those average worse warps just sitting on tm

[glacial ruin]

(old screenshots) yeah... yeah it is worth it

[glacial ruin]

yes it is bad, very bad.. it makes "normal" warps that are otherwise decent or even good difficult or impossible to sell, because everyone would just upgrade their untradable warp to perfection lol

its not a good game mechanic, and its a cheap solution

[frosty jetty]

Eh I just found it cool that there would be something beyond a mythic etc if u just committed to 1 weapon, I think that would be a very cool mechanic maybe we shouldn’t make them untradable also I think that u saying no1 would buy decent warps isn’t true cuz new people would still want to enhance their new good warps they bought from tm

[shadow summit]

For tomes yes, for the average player rolling mythics it's a waste

New players get lucky and snipe a mythic from lr chest, then they roll it to [4] and throw it on TM waiting for it to sell (it never will)

I think it's bad that mythics deflated enough that it's hardly worth using simus

[glacial ruin]

decent and good warps would be sellable, just more difficult to sell.. but really good rolled warps would just not sell anymore, which would make the entire thing a net negative for the game

[glacial ruin]

yeah, augments are mostly for shiny mythics, trying for perfect discoverers, hp regen tomes and ultra-rich gambling for perfect normal items etc.

[frosty jetty]

Eh we can’t have cool things in game 😦

[fresh stag]

This is just not true everyone below 1% of runners hated lootrunning existing even if they didn't do it 🥀

[dry dew]

i loved old lootrunning it was chill to me

[frosty jetty]

Yuh it wasn’t so bad I don’t have bad memories with them

[dry dew]

i can 1000% see why people didnt like it though esp since it was server-side

[frosty jetty]

No no u got it wrong he was replying to my mag where I said old lring as in old lr camp lring wasn’t so bad

[frosty jetty]

I think u also got this wrong I was talking about how old lr camp lring wasn’t all that bad

[shadow summit]

True!

[fresh stag]

Wasn't old lootrun camp just chronokinesis or some other bug

[frosty jetty]

Old lring was get rainbow early get orange/aqua stacked orange early Aqua stack white Aqua stack grey just do boons/ purples do aqua stacked grey before ending the run

[shadow summit]

Oh we're talking about the new lr system

[frosty jetty]

?

[shadow summit]

I thought drip was referring to the old system

Where you run and open chests with lb/lq

[frosty jetty]

Yea but he replied to my msg where I was talking about lr system after camps but before missions

Misunderstanding

[amber glade]

THATS WHAT I BEEN SAYING

[fresh stag]

Whoops.

[wispy frigate]

add slot machines

[glacial ruin]

as for me, the only thing I didn't like about old lootruns is that they were server-side, so I had to compete with other players for chest timers, which was near impossible to do so, so I didn't even try too hard

but otherwise it was very chill and fun

[dry dew]

exactlyy yes

i thought it was chill otherwisethough

[glacial ruin]

I know many people who stopped lootrunning because it went from totally chill to 110% focus required

[gilded sun]

????

[shadow summit]

I'm also interested

[gilded sun]

What if scrapping Mythics gives you mythic augments

Then, even the shittiest mythic would still be worth something because, at the very least, you could scrap it and turn it into an augment

[shadow summit]

That was my initial thought

But it would lower the price of augments on TM

Which I also think is a good thing

[gilded sun]

in general we'd have more high rolls on everything

Which would be good, people could get their optimal DPS or cost reductions far easier

And it wouldn't feel so wasteful to use augments on your favorite legendary armor pieces

[shadow summit]

The useless mythic weapons on TM would be purged

And it encourages players to roll their own stuff more

[gilded sun]

Can someone ping me the original message, I can't see it on discord mobile there's literally hundreds of messages here if not more

[celest crystal]

.

also click the very top of the screen to go back up to the thread on mobile

[gilded sun]

Termi made a good point about it inflating the costs of all Mythics since the uber rich would buy and scrap, but I think I think the current mythic drop rate from lootruns would actually make it easier for newer players to just get "any" mythic and engage in trade market

[shadow summit]

Isn't mythic prices rising what everybody wants

[gilded sun]

Where am I clicking?

[celest crystal]

near the 8:26

[shadow summit]

New players just need to learn to never roll lr mythics

[celest crystal]

im not sure if it works on all phones but it should work i think

[gilded sun]

Might be an iPhone only thing because all it does for me is being up the list of members

[celest crystal]

how about slightly above the thread title

[gilded sun]

Nuffin

[celest crystal]

rip

[glacial ruin]

I can't see how that is a good thing, the price of 1.5 stacks is already so low that its almost not worth taking in lootruns, guild raids almost make more money than lootruns already, but those even give aspects...

augments are literally just for the rich players to reroll certain mythics and items into really good rolls

[shadow summit]

Raids are consistent income, lr is luck

[glacial ruin]

lr is also consistent income, if you know what you are doing

[shadow summit]

Yes and it's unfortunate that they're so expensive

[shadow summit]

The price of unid would also rise in contrast

[glacial ruin]

no its not... if they were too cheap, that would make really good rolled mythics worth a lot less

[glacial ruin]

.

[glacial ruin]

no, only those with very low worth would rise a bit, but not by much

[shadow summit]

The shiny prices are already ruined because of how bad the system is

[glacial ruin]

wdym "already ruined"?

[shadow summit]

I don't belive so, augments are nice but it's still a great risk to use

[shadow summit]

The entire system is poorly implemented

[glacial ruin]

you might not believe so, but it would lead to what I wrote

[glacial ruin]

how so? you didn't explain it by writing that its poorly implemented

[shadow summit]

Having shinies be randomly generated means the majority are worthless

[glacial ruin]

okay, so.. because some of them are almost worthless, the entire system is poorly implemented?

[shadow summit]

Most*, and yes

But this is getting off topic

[glacial ruin]

its not getting off-topic, this thread is about lootruns for the past 1.2k comments really

[shadow summit]

The shiny system should not be tied to lrs, that's one of my points

[glacial ruin]

I'm just trying to understand your view, but I can't agree.

[glacial ruin]

shiny system being lootrun exclusive is a good thing imo, so...

except they might want to add shinies exclusive to anni cache, but yea

[glacial ruin]

just because a certain shiny is worthless due to its bad counter, doesn't mean that such counter cannot be a cool one, and that some people don't enjoy that counter... this also makes good counters on good mythics very rare, which helps keeping up the price

[shadow summit]

I'm fine with the pools being random, but the fact that shines are randomly chosen and assigned a stat track is bad design because you are more likely than not to get a bad tracker, not to mention you need to hope it's on a decent item.

If it isn't, you have to wait another week

I like all trackers they just need to be more customizable imo

Players killed disco is a waste

[glacial ruin]

"[4] reroll low roll mythics are a waste"... same point, makes no sense

[shadow summit]

Yes, all these factors come together to make a system that can generate extremely expensive items, but more often than not it's not worth investing in

[glacial ruin]

I 100% disagree with this point, its not a bad design at all, its a good design.

[shadow summit]

They are, which is why im advocating for scrapping

[shadow summit]

I would like to see a way to grind for the specific tracker and apply it to items if conditions are met

It sucks that anni mythics don't get trackers, and it sucks that it's entirely a crapshoot

[glacial ruin]

this would bring down the price and also the feeling of exclusitivity of good counters (on good mythics)... really, really bad idea, 100% disagree with you

[shadow summit]

The endgame of wynn is held up by rng and disguises it as content

[glacial ruin]

this I agree, shiny anni mythics would be cool

[shadow summit]

Yeah I'm totally fine with this

[glacial ruin]

its a game, and yes its rng, but some small and big rng factors (depending on the mechanic) is what makes fun oftentimes lol

if anything, the only rng thats bad is p2w features (even if cosmetics), aka crates... but thats borderline fine for me because 1. you can buy shares from others in f2p to buy crates, and its only cosmetics... but in crate system, you are never guaranteed to get everything you want... in any other game system, you are guaranteed to get what you want, because you can buy them (mythics etc.) from other people, if you cannot get them yourself (because whatever you get, you sell it, and then you buy what you wanted)

[shadow summit]

Maybe Its fun when you have infinite money to spend

[glacial ruin]

I don't have infinite money to spend, quite the opposite

[shadow summit]

I don't have problems with crates it's entirely cosmetic

[gilded sun]

I think random shiny is a good thing because what's the alternative? Specifically curated meta-related shinies?

Not only would that be hella annoying to code rather than a universal random system, it would be ANOTHER reason for players to be like "Erm, you made a bad shiny! Go back to the kitchen and redo it!"

I get that Wars completed Fanta is useless, but that's not the shiny tracker's fault, that's the fault of the weapon itself being useless in current game state

[shadow summit]

Why would someone care about how they customize their shiny lol, at least one player would be happy with it

[shadow summit]

Not every item is good for wars, it's a pretty niche tracker and I don't think it's the fault of the weapon for not being good in wars

[gilded sun]

I will say though, I do like the idea of having a "shiny tracker slot" where you can manually put the tracker that you want

I feel like having shiny "slots" on weapons and then collecting shiny "badges" separately would be a genuinely fun component. Add player control, and adds another money sink for completionists

[shadow summit]

I'd like to see a tag on weapons that displays previous owners, think it would be cool

[gilded sun]

Yeah, which in that scenario, the solution isn't to revamp the shiny mechanic, it's to fix the weapon's viability.

I made a suggestion but I also feel like it just works in a vacuum so that people can further customize their favorite items

I'm thinking like the silly nickname things that you can give to pokemon

Titles I think it was called

[glacial ruin]

so what are you saying? being able to have multiple trackers on the same mythic?

[shadow summit]

I would like to be able to rename or relore noncrafted items

[glacial ruin]

not happening

[shadow summit]

Or have specific items assigned with specific weapon skins

[shadow summit]

CT hates fun

No real reason not to imo

[gilded sun]

Possibly, but not what I was originally suggesting. I was thinking a "Shiny" mythic has one empty slot, almost like a powder slot, and then you the player find trackers (like the mythic augments) and you attach them to the Mythic item, almost like the rare gems from Monster Hunter World or something

You, the player, would have a lot more control over what counter you want to use. I think it would be a cool way to customize your stuff even more

[glacial ruin]

yes there are many very good reasons not to, the main one is to not ruin normal items' exclusive lore and name

[shadow summit]

/resetlore

[glacial ruin]

sooo... if I wanted a shiny chests opened discoverer, I could just get the chests opened tracker, and put it on the discoverer, thus decreasing the price of good shinies into oblivion.. got it... 100% disagree, bad idea

[glacial ruin]

???

[shadow summit]

I'm sure the 5 players with good chests disco will be fine

[gilded sun]

You'd have to find a shiny disco first. If anything, this would make shiny prices averaged out because they would all be capable of using any tracker

It wouldn't universally tank shiny prices, it would just stop the spike from 20stx chest openes hero and 2stx deaths counted Slayer

[glacial ruin]

well indeed, they would be capable of using any tracker, and that would be bad in every way possible

[gilded sun]

I don't see how

[glacial ruin]

I just explained it in my last 50 comments

[gilded sun]

I'm on mobile, give a summary

[glacial ruin]

you were chatting right here the entire time?

[gilded sun]

The only thing you said was "it's bad" and "tanks the price" I countered with "no, it just brings them closer to a middle point"

[glacial ruin]

for good shiny mythics, it would result in: feeling of exclusitivity gone + prices dropped down into oblivion --> not cool anymore, at all

[gilded sun]

Your personal feeling of exclusivity < Everyone else in the server having fun

[glacial ruin]

not personal, its objective game design

well no, of course I have personal experience, because I do own some rare shinies, but what I wrote is objective

[gilded sun]

I don't think it's right for a hero to be worth 6 stacks and then a chest opened hero to be worth 40.

Game design or not, it disproportionately makes only a small minority of players happy.

[glacial ruin]

someone explain it to them, I cannot

[celest crystal]

you gotta remember that shiny mythics are meant to be an ultimate trophy for post-endgame players

[glacial ruin]

^

that too

[gilded sun]

Sure, but it's a cosmetic feature that gets locked behind endless farming. I don't think that's a good philosophy for player retention

[shadow summit]

Pretty sure most endgame players prefer higher ovr rolls than a decent shiny that costs 5x the price

[worthy ibex]

i prefer quality max stuff over cosmetic

[celest crystal]

i dont see shiny mythics as something that keeps players engaged— they are something that are hard to get, are extremely rare (mind you, you on average get more than 1 shiny from the pool if you try hard enough that week), and being able to switch counters would take away half of the purpose of it and lead to unnecessary economic instability

[worthy ibex]

yeah as should be

they are not part of the main economic circle

[glacial ruin]

imagine adding this "shiny slot" to shiny mythics... --> now you can have 2 counters on 1 mythic --> why can't we have all counters on one mythic?

this idea is just a bad idea altogether

[gilded sun]

You're straw manning the argument and using a slippery slope fallacy btw

By your logic old lootrunning was better because Mythics were supposed to be an end game achievement

[glacial ruin]

I understand that some players might feel left out by these prices for shinies being so high, but you cannot satisfy everyone, and you should not satisfy everyone with every single game system

[gilded sun]

Not something everyone can use

[worthy ibex]

everyone can use non shiny versions 🤷

you often times get better quality non shiny for the price you are ultimately paying for shiny

[glacial ruin]

well old lootrunning was better by a lot of people's opinions, and most people agree that mythics became way too common (so that they should somehow be made a bit rarer again)

[celest crystal]

the game needs to have things that make people feel special and unique about, and shiny executes it really well already by introducing trackers on specific mythics that will only appear once per year or even less

it is meant to be this way

[worthy ibex]

im keen on offering on #1 strati rn and id consider 90 stx but its on a shiny so i have to offer shiny tax so the fair offer would be 180+ stx imo

[glacial ruin]

so true actually, if they have "no problem with cosmetics", then why is shiny mythics a problem for them?

[celest crystal]

market mains are hyped about shiny pools every week in hopes of getting a good shiny of their favourite mythic, its fun

[glacial ruin]

this

[shadow summit]

The once a year shiny being generated only for it to get dogshit rolls

[worthy ibex]

like it doesnt actually mean anything the shinyness of mythic

[glacial ruin]

ever heard of corkian simulators?

[glacial ruin]

its literally cosmetic

[shadow summit]

Yeah it's the best way to waste your money

[worthy ibex]

i only buy stuff for quality and pay the price i ought to pay whether its 90 stx or 250 stx, this case should not reflect the entire economy

like nobody is telling me to spend 250 stx but if im willing to spend it so be it

[celest crystal]

endgame wynn is all about wasting money to get what you want, and shiny does give collectors something good to do

[worthy ibex]

i could also just spend 10x less on some normal variant with god rolls

[gilded sun]

the people who say that are only the ones who already had a ton of mythics. Its the rich pulling up the ladder behind them mentality.

Could they be a little more rare? Sure, no one is arguing against that. But to suggest the old gatekeepy loot running alternative was better is 💀💀💀

[glacial ruin]

I literally have 3 warps, one of the is shiny chests opened warp, and I use that shiny warp most of the time, instead of my really, really good rolled normal warp

(well the shiny has decent to good rolls too)

[gilded sun]

"This system is fine because even though it pops up once a year, you can afford it if you're ultra rich" doesn't sound like a fun and engaging mechanic that people would want to interact with honestly

[worthy ibex]

im rich and providing insights on how the economy can be improved for anyone to encourage stable growth for everyone?

i have traded for a while enough to see the flaws

not everyone can win with the flaws

[celest crystal]

its engaging and fun for the endgame players who have too much money lol, you cant think of it as normal mythics— shinies are collection items

[glacial ruin]

it was better by a lot of people's opinion, because it allowed you to turn off your brain and grind for money after a long day at work.. new lootrun requires 100% focus all the time, so tons of people stopped lootrunning

[shadow summit]

I'm richer and think it's a bad idea

[glacial ruin]

thats your opinion, I 100% disagree, its a fun niche mechanic that long-term, passionate players can enjoy.. if they were to become not so exclusive anymore, then it would hurt such passionate players

[shadow summit]

You can still do old lr lol

[worthy ibex]

I want the rest of the game to have a fair shot and this is one way i think it can be achieved, there is also lots of valuable discussion in this thread to be considered

[pliant lantern]

i have 20 pages of stx in my bank and i think the economy is fine

[glacial ruin]

you have to understand that taking away exclusitivity is oftentimes a BAD thing in game design

[shadow summit]

They fixed the chests so it's nicer to do

[worthy ibex]

you can but 3 days wait period for loot generation fully spawn is just 💀

if not more time it takes

[glacial ruin]

you can, but only somewhat, you have to fight mobs now

[shadow summit]

Better than competing to snipe new worlds, don't run the same area over and over

[shadow summit]

Hop on the assassin lr meta

[worthy ibex]

the only people i know who do old lrs, literally use 9 leveled classes with lring gear its extremely off limits for people who wish to try that method

to make money from it atleast

[gilded sun]

"A lot" is an overstatement. Most people don't play video games so that they can stop playing video games (turn their brain off). AFK games are a real niche, but they're genuinely the smallest niche of video game communities for that reason

[shadow summit]

It was always pretty hard to get into

[worthy ibex]

but now its harder

[shadow summit]

In some ways

[worthy ibex]

I would like to do it myself personally on just 1 class

i like to increase stats on my main class and would like the ability to opt out of lrc reasonably

[gilded sun]

Like, when you say "a lot of people" do you mean raw numbers or percentage? Because clearly a lot of people are doing Lootruns for the market to have so many mythics. Far outweighing the amount that ditched the old version of Lootruns.

[glacial ruin]

"a lot" is not an overstatement, you just probably don't interact this type of player (they are not likely to speak up about this anymore)

[lyric saffron]

dawg you can get like 30 mythics a minute with this system

some rare items are worth more than mythics

[glacial ruin]

my old keeper ring is worth more than most unID mythics

and its not even max roll, just nearly max

[gilded sun]

That kind of community is, by definition, a severe minority. The majority of complaints about "bad" video games are ones that remove player agency or have unrewarding systems, or feel like they lack depth, and so on and so on. Just browse on steam, you'll see.

[gilded sun]

So then you think old lootrunning was better?

[lyric saffron]

no i just think rates are way too inflated need to be severely reduced

[gilded sun]

Ok thank you, you're helping to prove my point then

I also agree that mythic drop rate is kinda nutty rn.

But the only people who think old lootrunning was better are the minority who enjoyed turning their brain off (old Lootruns still exist btw) or the mega Dragons that have 4 pages of mythics and are pissed about their stocks tanking

[worthy ibex]

these older players have made peace with the idea of not really being listened too which is why they dont seem to exist anymore

[glacial ruin]

@gilded sun T307 explained it well

[worthy ibex]

I just think both should be an option with pros and cons for both

[shadow summit]

They should tie lr drop rates directly to playtime

[worthy ibex]

there are elements worth your time in old lring

[glacial ruin]

and your argument about what the majority type of video game complaints are, is irrelevant

[shadow summit]

I think the playerbase in general has this feeling

[worthy ibex]

like class bias making it 50/50 to get weapons of your own class, so if you wanted warps for example you could lr on mage and expect to get it relatively frequently

people dont even know that class bias exists anymore

which also applies to mob grinding

[shadow summit]

Recently pulled a Hero from a chest on my ironman mage, felt so bad

It's still sitting in my pouch

[worthy ibex]

but its all lost knowledge due to lrc. Lrc has made the community generally less knowledgeable about how things work

[gilded sun]

It's relevant because the argument is about what's more enjoyable for the majority of players. Otherwise we could just give one person all the money in the entire server and call it a day

[shadow summit]

There's a lot of old knowledge that is lost, hunted mechanics being a good example

[gilded sun]

This is more because of CT nerfing items no?

[worthy ibex]

Its very rare to find someone nowadays for example who knows how to run realm of light lr chests

[glacial ruin]

if only they added an option to send one item every 24 hours from your ironman class into your normal bank

[shadow summit]

Still mad they removed this

[glacial ruin]

it was an option before?

[worthy ibex]

when chrono was broken, my expertise was approached and my contributions to producing chrono optimised runs lead my friend group to profitting 2000 stx in just 1 month and just my pathing alone recieving offers of 40 stx since its just such forgotten knowledge

i ofc chose not to sell out but i am saying the old knowledge is valuable

[glacial ruin]

for real though

[shadow summit]

It's the feeling that CT doesn't (or cant) provide much confirmation that they are listening when the community calls for changes
The air item epidemic for one

[shadow summit]

Champ players could transfer items off the ironman class using pets, yes

[gilded sun]

This feels like a misrepresented example. Wynncraft in general struggles with player retention because of lack of end game activities that are enjoyable or fun.

By that metric you could also struggle to find players nowadays who know the optimal strat for running Corrupt Sand Swept Tomb parties, but that doesn't mean the old system was somehow better

[shadow summit]

And the neglect of mythics as another

[worthy ibex]

i also like how lrc ruined the disco conquest, disco used to be only findable in t3/t4 chests but now lrc has destroyed that kind of rarity

[worthy ibex]

My highest was nearly 4000 lmfao

[glacial ruin]

bruh

okay you win

[worthy ibex]

knowledge moment

[shadow summit]

Best way to make money is to abuse new content before they nerf it

[glacial ruin]

max roll disco now costs 5-6 stx LE

[glacial ruin]

this is true

[gilded sun]

The fact that you could have is not a good sign. We don't need IRL wealth disparity in wynncraft dude

[shadow summit]

Hypothetically, how much could I get for a chests disco with perfect lb and 99% xp

[glacial ruin]

a chests opened shiny disco?

[shadow summit]

Yeah

[glacial ruin]

with those rolls, probably over 150 stacks, but idk (100 to 250 stacks, but im really bad at pricing this)

but unID shiny chests opened and 0 reroll chests opened discoverers are still reliably going for 90-100 stacks each

and a simulator only costs 1.5 stacks now so

[shadow summit]

Decent ig

Once I get back i want to procure a t10 pouch

[lyric saffron]

no they're not they're like 70

[glacial ruin]

okay if you can find a seller, then you can get away with 70-90 stacks

[dry dew]

my issue with shinies is that its a very big endgame grind incentive but a good one only shows up like every few months

[tame canyon]

dungeons completed gaia

wars won pure

[dry dew]

my point w this is that there should be some other incentive, some dopamine rush thing, thats either permanent or shows up more often

[frosty jetty]

Fruma broski 🤞

[dry dew]

id explode all over my monitor if they actually were to make another endgame grind incentive in fruma other than shinies and aspects

and not just add another raid and lr camp

[frosty jetty]

Fruma is finally there!
Introduces:
A new dungeon
A new raids
A new lr camp!

[dry dew]

id quit until dern

[worthy ibex]

dark and light mythics incoming ong

[frosty jetty]

Fr I would focus on the real life instead even my motivation to war wouldn’t keep me playing this game

[dry dew]

fuck it man.. add this

the eco and endgame grind shit is my biggest problem w the gmae rn

most of my friends quit bc of those two things

[worthy ibex]

eco is 💩 because there is no dedicated team towards approaching improvement for eco

changes are kinda thrown out there seemingly with little thought towards eco

and if there is a mention of eco it is short term, like when they add major ids to mythics (they dont announce which mythic gets it) which is short term

eco could be so much better if we didnt need this thread and had actual real ones doing the stuff in the background

like this thread has some disagreements between folks but I think we can come to a consensus that the state of it is poor rn

[dry dew]

if the problem is the supply of mythics then mythic rates are just too high
and since theres a gap between vet players and new players who have different understandings on how to make the 'best' of sac stacking (even though its not really that hard at all) sacs should just not be made into something that can create a gap between those two player groups, as in removing them from grays and instead make them come from another source like reaching 100 challenges or whatever. i dont know exactly how they would do this but to me it just seems like theres a big problem with sacs in lootrunning rn

[dry dew]

for sure

as someone who only really plays to gamble for the last 2-3 years this is the worst its ever been for some reason, even though nothing with lring has changed. also except for 2.0.3 ofc

gamblers not gambling is a huge recession indicator...

[frosty jetty]

Honestly fuck eco as long as there is shit to do in this game which there isn’t

[red lantern]

[frosty jetty]

Hi tealy

[worthy ibex]

welcome

[red lantern]

been here for a while

[frosty jetty]

bean*

[dry dew]

https://tenor.com/view/tayomaki-sakigifs-dj-khaled-meme-eating-gif-22386650

[chilly hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/773108055558455296/1380811010109341706/2025-05-3120-59-23-Trim-Trim-ezgif.com-added-text.gif

[red lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/druski-taecvult-stan-twitter-druski-vibing-gif-23855934

[dry dew]

https://tenor.com/view/rich-off-airpods-richoffairpods-stack-band-bandforband-gif-4351078540525453133

[worthy ibex]

what is going on ahahaha

[frosty jetty]

Tealy pls don’t derail this thread

[dusky brook]

The entire problem we've been discussing and reason for mythic price going down is because of being able to grind so hard lmao

[shadow summit]

I'm specifically referring to shinies

Making trackers grindable is a separate thing from grinding the shiny itself

[dusky brook]

I know but the same thing that happens to regular stuff would happen here if the one you want is more easily grindable

[shadow summit]

Well yes, that point was raised and it's a good thing imo

[dusky brook]

I think it's fine that people care more about their rolls than a shiny because of how shinys are positioned as cosmetic

[shadow summit]

I'd like to direct you to this thread: https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1390980556153688125

I think it explains the idea better

[quaint sphinx]

fix eco please, the issues became in the fucking 2021year, it shouldn't be so sad 🙏

[dry dew]

rework and/or heavily nerf sacs or delete them

[native portal]

how did you do this

[oblique pivot]

probably just equilibrium + that one mission that gives rr per every boon

[dry dew]

hoarder too

i mean u can get like 200+ boons with either equi or hoarder

[oblique pivot]

equi is more consistent though which is why I said it

[quaint sphinx]

its not the fix, the issue started from 1.19 update when loot quality came out

eco just was surviving from dupe to dupe lol

[dry dew]

sacs are definitely the issue rn

not sure how it was then i don’t really remember but right now atleast

[quaint sphinx]

whatever you do the issue exists because there's no a synthetic way of convertation mythics to raw

and over billion years was suggestion to do anything with blacksmith prices

you def can't do anything with ruined mythic roll

[shadow summit]

yeah we should incentivize a way to delete mythics ngl

blacksmith is not worth it so everybody throws their shitty items on TM

lowering the avg price and generating more bad items

[dry dew]

i do have 3-5 pages of bad mythics though that are just rotting in my bank and it would be nice if i could do something with them. no clue how they would implement that though

[quaint sphinx]

well yea i also meant there's another issue but sacs are issue aswell that made mythics pretty common and fully ruined eco

[dry dew]

something has to be done about the supply issue though like it’s abysmal

sacs are the reason why there’s a large gap between like new players having a hard time getting mythics compared to experienced players being able to farm them rn

[shadow summit]

maybe more rewards the higher the rr count is to encourage dead mythics to be disposed of

[shadow summit]

are there any good video guides on how to do it super effectively?

[dry dew]

there’s a small knowledge gap that has such huge impact on mythics generated atm

[shadow summit]

text guides can only take new players so far

[wispy creek]

i'd argue that killing sacs would probably encourage far far more materialism runs

[quaint sphinx]

thats true ig

[shadow summit]

yeah but materialism runs kinda goes against the intended lr gameplay loop

[dry dew]

not afaik its just so straightforward though, the issue is that new players kind of just try to force long runs without realising how op sacs and rerolls are (they aren’t short running very much)

[quaint sphinx]

lootrun system became more complex, need more time to anylize it

[dry dew]

hoarder can be nerfed too ofc i mean thats still on the table

[shadow summit]

how short is a short run?

[wispy creek]

you'd probably have to nerf discover first

[shadow summit]

challenge wise

[wispy creek]

anything less than 30 or so challenges

[dry dew]

depends i guess but mine are like ideally below 30 atleast, really depends though i can’t say for certain thst i’m doing them optimally

it’s just that new players lootrun super suboptimally

[wispy creek]

why 30? because after 30 or so challenges grey beacons stop appearing/become ridculously rare

[dry dew]

naw not really

lq is more of an issue than lb for sure

[quaint sphinx]

as i remember Wynncraft Team just wanted out of need to use loot quality stuff and e.t.c, make start of it more simpler for newbies, but make mythics more common was mistake

[dry dew]

less boons from hoarder equals less lq

[shadow summit]

I usually start out by grabbing some blues/orange, fish for aquas, and take greys whenever i can. I then complete the mission as fast as possible so I can get another, and hopefully get a rainbow and set up an aqua boosted dark grey, then take purple until I cant

hopefully get an aqua white somewhere in there

[dry dew]

thst sounds right lol

[wispy creek]

yeah
this is also about what i do iirc
https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder?v=18#11_10N0QU0uX0QW0EE0xd0Jn0Ji0Qn1f00112M001g00001006CO0z0z0+0+0+0+0-1T2Y2Y2Z2Z2a2a401401401401401l7VkER+D
WynnBuilder build:

Titanomachia
Discoverer
Chain Rule
Crusade Sabatons
Downfall
Azeotrope
Dupliblaze
Contrast
Monster [f6f6f6]
with this build

[shadow summit]

I only ever get one or two sacs though

[quaint sphinx]

i also use 72lq set from start of the lootrun, works fine too

[dry dew]

like i said it’s just that new players lootrun so suboptimally. like 3 hour run 150 pulls 2 rerolls

[shadow summit]

most i spend is 1.5h

[quaint sphinx]

a lot of yellow boon chests with good loot

[wispy creek]

what class and weapon

[quaint sphinx]

fallen hero

[dry dew]

source of sacs needs to be changed so it’s more straightforward and doesnt allow for such a large gap between new players and experienced players

[wispy creek]

i don't think it's that complicated

[shadow summit]

yeah i have a hard time getting any decent amount of them

mission luck is poor

[dry dew]

something has to be done though it’s not getting better anytime soon

[round meteor]

give me them for 10le

not each

[oblique pivot]

💔

3-5 pages of bad mythics is crazy though, I do think there is a problem with how important rolls are on mythics or they are worthless and they genuinely just don’t sell

I have noticed more often nowadays that some mythics like stardew, people don’t even bother rolling to [4] anymore, sometimes they just sell it cheap as [3] so they don’t lose even more money rolling for a chance to just get a bad roll AND be down another stx

[dry dew]

good rolls arent worth that much more than unid either

on idol blue spell blue cost 30% mr was like 5 when unid was 3

[oblique pivot]

What if they just make it so that if you roll an item to a higher roll count like [4] or [5], there’s like a second amplifier automatically applied onto it so that there’s a better chance of getting a decent usable roll then

Honestly I don’t see the problem with making bad mythics less common and decent ones more common for people to use

it’s better than having some ones go straight to the blacksmith

[dry dew]

gambling is just like not viable rn considering the selling time, low profit from good rolls etc, which sucks because rolling items is by far my favorite thing to do in the game

[dry dew]

i still agree w this if not just removing sacs entirely and balancing around that

[oblique pivot]

But that’s already been addressed, rather have mythics accessible than gatekept

It would make more sense logically to make the mythics that are already out there have better rolls and actually good, no? Also this would lead to more people spending money and falling into that emerald sink of rolling too

[dry dew]

im just skeptical of everything about changing the roll system

[dry dew]

but yeah i mean they would still be accessible but theres such a large gap of experienced players who can get multiple mythics a day to newbies who get like 1 mythic every few days due to their inexperience of sac stacking and getting the most out of rerolls/sacs/pulls every single run

the experienced ppl will ofc still go for the best strat but just decreasing the gap between the two groups would work for still having them be accessible for new players while also not handing out insane amounts of mythics to the experienced players

[oblique pivot]

The way I see it, it would only affect future rolls anyways and most mythics are rolled at like roll [4] already. I think that if this were to be implemented, and the chances of rolling a much much better roll are high for [5], the bottom floor of things like warp would instantly be bought out and gambled even if it’s probably a loss. Those rolls would be half decent/usable at least and wouldn’t just be a decorative item

This affects more so like future rolls, not anything to do with current rolls we have

Honestly something like this might even encourage some people to start rolling really good insu worth items to [6] if they’re crazy enough

like if hero was good value right now maybe but that’s pushing it

I do think that the amplifier power would need to be a huge difference from 6 > 5 > 4 > maybe 3

Oh also not reliant on amps themselves but just rolling in general though since otherwise that might just raise the prices of amps to like 4 le per or smth 💀

[lyric saffron]

warp wouldn't even be affected by amps

[oblique pivot]

true

[native portal]

I generally agree that sacs are a problem

I think making them more consistent to obtain but only 2/3 per run would probably be good idk

and probably making you choose between rr or sac

[wispy creek]

so basically screw over ulti sac and safety seeker then

[dry dew]

fuck ult sac and sseeker

they are busted as hell and honestly id just prefer if missions only helped the player in their run or atleast didnt debuff the player. remove those missions foreal

[oblique pivot]

yes i agree with this

[dry dew]

like in an ideal world id want missions to just help the player get through their run and sacs and rerolls would be obtainable through a source other than missions which would make it easier to control the extent of which sacs can be abused

[oblique pivot]

make 1 sac always guaranteed and remove every sac mission except redemption

i wouldnt mind if it was a system where you have to get to X challenges complete before getting your second sac either though

[dry dew]

something like that but if it was always guarnateed make 1 sac like 20% of pulls and w redemption up it to 40%-50%

[oblique pivot]

honestly i think the number of pulls saved with sacs are fine rn, just that they are too rng based to obtain and u can get too many

[dry dew]

i dont think a guaranteed sac would comply with the rng part of lootrunning exactly so i doubt that would happen

[oblique pivot]

tealy mentioned that its there to be a built in pity system

but a pity system relying on rng is a crazy thing to make 😭

[visual quarry]

Forgery operates like that already?

[oblique pivot]

not really, forgery consistently builds up pity every chest you open

if you dont get offered a sac, however, you lose it all

[dry dew]

if it was a pity system surely the amount of pulls saved should be less, since the main source of getting mythics is to abuse this pity system (i def prefer the idea of having a sac as a pity system instead of just the usual)

[visual quarry]

Yea but its the rng of not getting a mythic

[dry dew]

not the same thing bro

[oblique pivot]

I don't understand what you are getting at

[dry dew]

thats what any pity system builds upon

[visual quarry]

Im saying its not crazy

[oblique pivot]

no but there's two different parts of rng that I'm saying

like RNG of not getting a mythic is fine since its a pity system for that mythic

I'm saying RNG of getting no pity at all due to bad offerings, not because you didn't pull a mythic

unless you are trying to say that getting offered sac missions is on the same level as pulling a mythic, your point is confusing

[visual quarry]

No I'm suggesting that the idea of pity systems already operating similarly is not crazy, its been done before, not that I disagree with the point

[oblique pivot]

also, its strange that the missions in lootruns, the one part of it that is meant to make every run different, are required to be a similar set every time in order to achieve the pity system. I think its counterintuitive and goes against the idea of every run being unique and different

I think lootrunning would be a lot more enjoyable and also better for players if they could freely choose a mission without them losing out on so much in return. If any player were to be offered ultimate sacrifice vs. something like stasis, the choice is obvious because of how much a mission like ultimate sacrifice gives but contributes nothing to the run itself

[dry dew]

hard agree

[oblique pivot]

probably a bit of a strange take but I really really don't like the idea of missions buffing the reward chest at all, I believe missions should contribute to the run alone so that you can strategize and make different combinations of missions to get a really nice run and optimize it with the systems given. I think that buffs towards the reward chest should be obtainable via other means (such as something that has been suggested recently, trinkets! or perhaps even somethng like just reaching a certain quota)

[dry dew]

yes bruh thats what i been saying on the first part lmfao

[oblique pivot]

Trinkets, in theory, could be great for lootrunning if they worked similarly to how some missions are currently where they offer a temporary debuff in return for buffing the end reward chest, like a more complex curse and you can only choose a couple or so

[dry dew]

mission synergies is like the best part of lootrunning why should sac stacking be by far the most meta strat and overshadow everything else

its so boring

[oblique pivot]

I agree with this but I don't agree that sacs should be nerfed to the ground

[visual quarry]

Because people will naturally make things as efficient as possible every time?

[dry dew]

yeah lol

im saying that sacs should not be the most efficient strat

[visual quarry]

I agree, but it will just get replaced by the next best thing immediately

[oblique pivot]

thing about lootruns is there should technically be no one efficient way at all, they should be completely RNG and random to make them interesting through other methods

[dry dew]

yeah but at least it forces the player to interact with missions in different ways

like every sac stack run is the same and does not really make the player engage w mission synergies at all which sucks

[oblique pivot]

I do think that in itself though, missions are completely imbalanced aside from sacs and rrs though, like something like equilibrium is incredibly ahead of the curve 💀

[visual quarry]

Again, fair, but there really isn't a perfect sollution. People will naturally gravitate towards the most consistency they can

[dry dew]

i mean i think they already are planning on changing bad missions idk

[oblique pivot]

I also don't like the idea of cleansing ritual being one of the only ways to get more challenges aside from running on reds

I do think that making the maximum amount of whites from 1 -> 2 wouldn't be a bad change at all and might encourage longer runs rather than the current short run meta

[visual quarry]

Also just with the existence of a meta does not mean you have to follow it

In the interim while you wait to see for any updates you are your own free agent, play the game as inefficiently as you so desire if its just not fun

[dry dew]

of course not

i dont sac stack most of the time when i lootrun lol

[native portal]

yeah I think I'm generally in agreement w this take

[visual quarry]

Wynncraft players trying not to make money for 5 seconds:

[native portal]

we'll probably take a look at what we can do around this for like fruma

no promises though!!

[dry dew]

fruma?? 😭 🥹

delay it

[visual quarry]

Please God dont put a lootrun camp in fruma immediately

Give players a chance to enjoy all the hard work that went into and the surrounding environment before immediately doing their best wall street impression

[dry dew]

im not doing a single quest in fruma✌️all i care about is the lootruns

[visual quarry]

Literally why

[placid verge]

https://tenor.com/view/mcsm-minecraft-story-mode-ending-mcsm-wynncraft-linkedin-find-a-job-gif-3475431729640936235

[dry dew]

Me!! as fuck

😇

[visual quarry]

Surely there must be something even moderately more entertaining to do when lootruns are as boring as you say

[placid verge]

raiding with non max level players and screenshotting their suboptimal builds

[dry dew]

Yea lol playing other games

since there hasnt been a big update in a while ill probably quit until the nextbig lootrun update hits or fruma atleast, i dont do anything else in the game

[visual quarry]

That's healthier, a game should stay a game

[placid verge]

Lowkey just make lootruns risk of rain

Remove time limit and jack up time difficulty scaling and enemy spawns with more emphasis on unique boss encounters

Race against being overscaled

how they will make this optimized for the network that will be their problem to solve

[oblique pivot]

sounds like the ideal forgery rework 🙏

[visual quarry]

But where's my fungus

[red lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/so-i've-heard-gif-1899418861963210299

[dry dew]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1123646632764899369/1373353907358797914/tenor_16.gif

[red lantern]

this could be cool, we'll see what we have dev time for post-fruma maybe

[glacial ruin]

I have to warn you that I think this is a really, really, really bad idea. The possibility to get so many sacrifices is a really fun mechanic. Also, The difference between 3 sacrifice and 4 or more sacrifice is almost nothing. It is only going to make any difference if you are in the long-term grind for the shiny mythic for that week, and just imagine being gatekept to 75% sacrifice, which prevents you from effectively grind for a shiny. If you want normal mythic or corkian amps, 75%-87.5% or 2-3 sacrifice will be enough about 90% of the time anyway, so there it won't really make any difference whatsoever, so taking away the possibility for more than 3 sacrifice is a really bad idea.

[native portal]

this vexes me

[glacial ruin]

why, to limit our options? I mean what is good in that? Sacrifice is THE pity system for lootruns, and it is the perfect pity system really. People sometimes create a post where they want a pity system added to lootruns (likely players who are new to lootruns), and then people say that sacrifices are the pity system and it works perfectly fine.

[native portal]

in the same message you say there's no point getting more than three you say removing the ability to get more than three would be bad

[placid verge]

How are sacs a pity system exactly

If we describe pity systems as just adding more pull chances then rerolls are a pity system

[glacial ruin]

the problem is the amount of unusable rolled mythics in existence, which have no need to exist... normal items with bad rolls get thrown away, but people don't throw away mythic items, even with 10-20% overall roles...

so the solution is not changing the lootrun reroll + sacrifice system, that is perfect as it is

the solution is to add a system to recycle the bad rolled mythics (maybe only allow items between 10-50% overall roll to be recycled or something, if its concern that people might recycle good mythics too)

[placid verge]

Lol no lootruns still shit so much raw

[glacial ruin]

Because getting 3+ sacrifice only makes a difference when you are grinding specifically for a shiny mythic. Otherwise it doesn't make a difference.

looks like I'm the minority opinion in this specific thread about this, but thats fine, I stick to these opinions for now

@native portal in other words, taking away the possibility to get more than 3 sacrifices would only bring down the mythics found by about 10% or less, based on my estimates.... which won't solve the issue at all, but it will make grinding for shiny mythics that much more difficult and that much less rewarding

[wispy creek]

id argue raids give more raw than lring

[glacial ruin]

yeah lootrun trinkets, or relics as they called it in the other thread, is a thing that should be added to lootruns sooner or later

and indeed, these relics/trinkets should be in item form, and they should be found both in flying chests and in lootrun end-reward chest

they should be used by right clicking, which opens a menu where you can choose to use the item or not (or in any other way prevent accidental usage, maybe they just cannot be used outside of lootruns is enough)...

or maybe you have to put them into the lootrun starting menu before a lootrun to activate them for that run (one time use)

and indeed, they should give some fun mechanics or twists to your lootruns, like

• temporary debuff in return for some buff to the end-reward chest as you said (although this feels like too complicated so I don't like this one)
• just adding additional buffs, or debuffs to enemies, or other twists to your entire run
• adding additional rewards, or maybe a bit higher chance for shiny mythics for that run (idk, this is boring and might be a bit FOMO so I'm not sure)
  ...im quite bad at generating ideas for this, but this trinket/relic system itself is clearly a really good idea

[dry dew]

it is not perfect at all bro
it completely overshadows all other possibilites in lootrunning and instead of incentivizing finding unique mission synergies and having every run be unique its just the same thing over and over and over and over again
it also creates a huge gap between new players and experienced players which ive talked about before
id argue 2-3 sacs is too much id preferably keep it capped at saving 50% of pulls max

i dont disagree with the bad roll mythic thing and im not sure what the proper fix for that would be

[glacial ruin]

.

Just please, before changing any missions that currently give sacrifices, rerolls or extra pulls, think it through 3 times over if its worth it.

My very strong opinion is that the current missions that give sacrifices, rerolls or extra pulls are basically at a perfect place and its a near perfect system.

The real problem is certain other missions, that don't give additional rewards in any form, are so bad that choosing them either makes 0 difference in your run (treasure hunting, stasis, backup beat), or it outright makes your run more difficult with 0 rewards (porphyrophobia)

[oblique pivot]

heavily disagree, I'm sorry. the current system is not perfect by any means. Limiting yourself to have a "perfect idea" too is also just putting a block on any future ideas

[placid verge]

Are these concerns based on premonitions

[glacial ruin]

well thinking about changes is good, but we have a great system, and there are so many other things that should be reworked instead... the real problem is that a few missions are bad, and that low rolled mythics are collecting dust in player banks...

[glacial ruin]

what?

[red lantern]

so every mission would need to give comparable rewards to sac/rr missions? rather than having unique effects

[glacial ruin]

everything I wrote here is based on my extensive lootrunning experience (and others experience, I taught lootrunning to many many people during my "career" and people like the current system)

[red lantern]

i think you're thinking a bit more about the economy than the actual lootrunning experience

[glacial ruin]

no not at all, they should either give rerolls and/or sacs, OR some unique buffs or twists to your lootrun, or both but in a small amount

[red lantern]

the economy is certainly a very important factor, but its not the only one

[dry dew]

useless missions being buffed would still be overlooked if sac stacking remains as powerful as it is right now
not to say that bad missions shouldnt be buffed but if they were, they would just be used to optimize sac stacking even more

[glacial ruin]

I'm talking about both the economy and the lootrun experience, separately.

[placid verge]

These concerns could be avoided if they actually went ahead with a semblance of real roguelite design than minmaxxing reward pulls 💀

[glacial ruin]

just that some missions are too bad in their current form and should be reworked (stasis, treasure hunting, backup beat, porphyrophobia)

[red lantern]

Cool and engaging twist mechanic that makes your run more fun
vs
2 sacrifices

if your goal of lootrunning is getting mythics, everyone would always choose the sacs, and then choosing the fun twist mechanic would be sombered by losing out on the rewards of the sacs

[glacial ruin]

and when I talk about the low roll mythic recycle system, its not only about the economy either.... its about player experience mainly, so thousands of bad rolled mythics don't just collect dust in player banks and on trade market

[dry dew]

i mean i agree lol i think missions should only be designed to help players throughout their run and that sacs / rerolls should be some sort of reward for making it through a run (whatever source that may be), as a way to incentivize finding new ways that missions synergize and just making the most out of your run

[glacial ruin]

well... finally a good argument, however... no matter how yall would change missions, people who just want to get money from lootruns would still choose best missions for getting as much money (mythics and other rewards) in as little time as possible

I'm not against changing it, IF its better than the current system, I just don't want to see an already great system getting exchanged for a worse one.

[red lantern]

yes, so the goal should be making the way to maximize profit more diverse and fun

[dry dew]

u just skipped over my arguments 😭 😭 im just gonna ignore the first part
and yes of course people will do that but sac stacking discourages engagement with different missions and making every run different ?? and its also very boring like ive said multiple times

every run is supposed to be rng but sac stacking is super consistent

[glacial ruin]

ah this? yea I missed this sorry, well my point stands for this too, but I should add that they couldn't really be used to further optimize sac stacking, if they wouldn't give sacrifices.

[placid verge]

More in favor of having random bullshit happen like events or boss spawns during LRs like atleast some shakeup to the loop

[glacial ruin]

ult sac, safety seeker, redemption and warmth devouer are perfectly enough for sacrifices, obviously more missions shouldn't ever get sacrifices

[glacial ruin]

the loop is already too complicated for people... I'm not sure

[placid verge]

Perhaps maybe allow dynamically picking curse effects tied to rewards

Like hades chaos boons or some

[glacial ruin]

sounds way too complicated and too cheap

[red lantern]

lootrun bosses i think would be cool, would want to have a very good reason for them though

(reason to fight them i mean)

[wispy creek]

like idk
give 5+ pulls for defeating one?

[placid verge]

Forced when at a challenge milestone or optional tied to some reward idk

[red lantern]

that sucks

[wispy creek]

its boring I know
but also practical

[dry dew]

kill the lootrun boss and choose between 2 rerolls or 1 sac and remove sseeker and ult sac people will be incentivized to get good missions in order to be able to defeat the boss and boons will be more important and curses will be more punishing (if they were to apply to the bosses)

[red lantern]

forced could maybe work but it'd be a major shakeup to the loop. could work but havent thought abt it enough to be sure. a reward is what im imagining but im not sure what would be good

[placid verge]

Could get mechanically harder deeper into a run aside from curse stat bloat

[glacial ruin]

"every run is supposed to be rng" with the current system, I heavily disagree

in a completely different lootrun system, where you just go in and its completely up to rng what rewards you get, sure.. but not being able to optimize your lootruns in any way sounds boring and not engaging at all.. if they would do that, just bring back old lootruns where we can mindlessly fly around the map and just open chests all day, you know what I mean?

[placid verge]

Just spitballing ideas here

[red lantern]

if we did LR bosses they'd prob have to engage differently with the curse system than other mobs

otherwise they'd just be impossible if you're unlucky. + 5 attack speed curses and it will endlessly fire projectiles at you

[glacial ruin]

optional lootrun bosses for optional rewards or twists/buffs to your run... thats what I think would be fine

where you would get pop-up messages in some ways about these bosses that they appeared somewhere (after each challenge, there is a chance for them to appear)

small chance*

[placid verge]

I really dont like having a hard time limit imposed on lootruns anyway that you have to top off sometimes with green beacons but thats just me

Hence risk of rain difficulty scaling I mentioned earlier

[glacial ruin]

yall could expand lootrun areas a bit too, not just, just a bit.. and put some of these bosses to the very outskirts of these lootrun camp areas

[placid verge]

Thats just personal preference though ig

[dry dew]

you could for sure still optimize it 🤷‍♂️ kind of unsure what you mean but i think sac stacking is way more boring and way less engaging atm

[glacial ruin]

not much, just a bit*

[red lantern]

time limit is, to me, just another lever for us to pull when designing stuff like missions/boons. its a way we can test the player and reward skill expression

[dry dew]

i still think a really big problem w sacs is the gap it creates between newbies and experienced players doe

[wispy creek]

I mean I dont think its that big of a problem?

its part of a learning curve

[placid verge]

Time scaling a la ROR effectively acts as a soft time limit in this case just with your guts spilling out as an abrupt end instead of time going to zero

Not that different to normal lrs albeit

[glacial ruin]

look, fair, I understand your point I think.. going through a run and not getting a mythic just to have to sacrifice the run and do the run all over again is indeed boring.. and if I understand correctly, if the lootruns themselves would be fun for most of their duration, then not getting a mythic from a lootrun wouldn't feel too bad, because you had fun playing the lootrun anyway... if this is what you mean, sure I agree that the current system is boring

however, "less engaging", heck no.. the current lootrun system is so engaging that it keeps you on 90% brain power use all the time

[wispy creek]

id argue the only place where lrs become brainless is if you've got equilibrium and 100 boons

[red lantern]

if im understanding right, you just get weaker the lower your timer is, effectively? im sure it could work but with how lrs and their design is rn I think it'd just limit our capabilities to test the player, as we'd always have to consider this debuff when gauging risk/rewards

[glacial ruin]

thats called learning curve and it really doesn't take that long to understand how it works, because sacrifice system is easy to understand

[placid verge]

Yeah was just adding context to my point of view

Not considering how it would be cohesively implemented in the current systems

[red lantern]

ye np i appreciate ur feedback

iirc i saw you a while ago saying you didnt like lootruns, so im especially interested in your thoughts on what could make them better

[glacial ruin]

wouldn't this just lead to players constantly keeping their time on 15+ minutes?

[red lantern]

unless there was a reason to go below, or you fuck up, yeah

[placid verge]

Idt I have any unique complaints that other players dont have like the ones in the thread

[glacial ruin]

well that doesn't sound good tbh

I like the current system where I can have low time remaining to keep me on edge so to speak (it makes you do challenges faster and it challenges you to do better)

[wispy creek]

I know like 90% of you people lr with warp or something

[glacial ruin]

I 100% understand that the reason that my ideas might clash with other players is that I have a hyper-competitive playstyle when it comes to lootrunning specifically, and so I might like things about lootruns what other players might not like or not like that much.

However, again I have taught lootrunning to many many players over the last 1.5 years, and many many players like the system, once they understand it.

[wispy creek]

I learned to use discoverer in lrs even bought a lblq wand

[glacial ruin]

anyway, let's get back to this debate in a few days 🤔

@ tealycraft ;)

[red lantern]

what

[gilded sun]

Self imposed challenge ≠ Good forced mechanic for everyone else btw

[dry dew]

truetbh

[dry dew]

go full lblq like the rest of us king

[placid verge]

Yeah essentially that mobs get stronger through time basically, which you could say already happens every time you complete a non-green beacon

In risk of rain enemy stats do increase but also spawns as in the rate of spawns and enemies spawning with elite modifiers, as well as boss class monsters appearing in regular spawns

[red lantern]

yeah messing with amnt of enemies is kinda tricky without a huge change to lootruns, but enemy modifiers is def a route we could end up doing

[wispy creek]

unfortunately my build reqiures a tome to use unless you've got a full lblq lr build

[red lantern]

like Shiny mobs that have 10x stats or smthn

[placid verge]

Behind the scenes they use some sort of director mumbo jumbo with increasing amount of credits to spawn such mobs but you get the point

[dry dew]

u using warp

[wispy creek]

monster

[dry dew]

🔥

[placid verge]

btw play risk of rain 2

its le good...

[oblique pivot]

ur highkey my goat for this

[placid verge]

Also gotta take into consideration the knock on effects this would have with builds like pretty sure my vision of lootruns is like incompatible with discoverer being able to be used and basically kill that mythic's use
Boon design with more power shifted to them could remedy that, hell adding unique boon effect types similar to major id effects but thats at the cost of the impact of your initial build

so Basically IDK

[red lantern]

major id-esque boons is smthn ive thought of before and i think would be fun, but yeah it'd have to be very particular to not creep on the players own build

[glacial ruin]

major-id type unique boons and curses sound fun indeed

[glacial ruin]

shiny mobs as a name and 10x stats on random mobs sound.. like a great idea for a unique lootrun modifier, but not as default

[oblique pivot]

I like this a lot, I'd much rather have a system where rainbow beacons don't exist and challenges are buffed overall but theres like a 20% chance that your challenge "corrupts" as soon as you start it which buffs enemies you face in it and also increases the effect of the beacon that you chose

lootrun bosses could be a very cool idea too

one way that it could be implemented is that like a lootrun boss spawns and instantly weakens the player but in order to get rid of the weakness, the player must fight and slay the boss

[dry dew]

I looove lootrunning 😋

[oblique pivot]

there's an incentive to kill the boss and give the player back their own power but if they choose to ignore it, its at their own detriment but then again its also their own choice

these "effects" that they given could be very similar to raid gambits as of right now, not just a "yeah you do 20% less damage now"

obviously each build differs so the player could be offered 3 weaknesses and has to choose one that makes the lootrun still playable for them

on top of that system, slaying the boss would probably grant like +3/+5 pulls as well imo or however tealy n the others see fit

[dry dew]

Ummm can we please stop derailing this thread guys... we are supposed to be talking about the economy of wynncraft and the overwhelming supply of mythics 😡

[oblique pivot]

I'd love to move over to https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1362842579959545946 but I do think that there are good topics in here that were discussed.

[dry dew]

in the end i have no clue what the optimal fix for the eco is but i do hope something at all is done at least

[visual quarry]

Is this the part where I suggest blacksmithing mythics again

[placid verge]

More opportunity cost

[dry dew]

omfg are u the one who said that

[placid verge]

Risk and reward

[oblique pivot]

imo just make it so that all curses (when fighting a boss) only act as pure scaling multipliers to their damage and HP, but not actually the effect that it gives. So like a resistance curse vs. an attack speed curse would act the same

[visual quarry]

I didnt just say it i live by it

[dry dew]

😭 😭

[oblique pivot]

alright i gotta go do smth real quick, I do really like where you guys were taking the ideas though to make lootruns more expansive and RNG based but in good ways where there isn't necessarily an extremely high opportunity cost if you avoid something (like how it currently is with sac stacking!)

[oblique pivot]

I love the idea of unique gameplay but I do think there are some things which are just to necessary in a lootrun that make it annoying if you don't get, its one of the reasons I don't enjoy lootruns fun anymore. Some examples of this that I commonly see are: Sac missions (been mentioned already quite a bit), and Rainbow beacons (a run is honestly awful without one and there is no upside to not taking one, I'd much more prefer something similar to what I mentioned earlier about challenges randomly "corrupting")

[oblique pivot]

ngl i lowk gamble warps to [5] when im bored 🙏

[dry dew]

this would net me like what. 16le from the blacksmith? worth (Jumpscare last 2 pages)

(nobody blacksmithing their mythics but u )

[visual quarry]

I did say it should be higher pricing didnt I, but also no, melon blacksmiths too if you didnt bother to read that part

[glacial ruin]

wait what? I don't blacksmith my mythics, I at best give them away

I opened discord at the right time and the right moment

[visual quarry]

No no, you aren't walking this one back melon its still there ( I am dumb it was eternal, sorry melon)

[glacial ruin]

where?

[oblique pivot]

I'd like to mention my idea from earlier here honestly

I do think it wasn't a bad solution to deal with "bad roll mythics"

[glacial ruin]

too cheap "solution" (not really a solution at all tbh)

[placid verge]

Idk just put some random npc in the void that gives you unique currency for selling your mythics to him to exchange for some wacko stuff

name him The Collector or something

[glacial ruin]

this actually sounds cool

[placid verge]

gives you random unid mythic charms and trinkets in exchange

[shadow summit]

Just need some sort of way to scrap mythics

[visual quarry]

Ah no I'm stupid it was eternal, not you, my apologies

[glacial ruin]

^

[placid verge]

maybe milestones for how many mythics you gave or currency earnt

[glacial ruin]

yay my memory didn't trick me

[placid verge]

Could also sell you Specific shiny trackers like that one other constructive feedback post 🤯

[glacial ruin]

I disagree with this one though.

[placid verge]

Ok but itll be like absurdly expensive

[glacial ruin]

just add the ability to scrap bad shiny mythics for like 10x the currency than normal mythics

[placid verge]

Actually ts is complete genius its like hypixel museum but not ass

[shadow summit]

Museum is not ass

[placid verge]

Yes because I said so

[dry dew]

term said he didnt like the idea of mythic scrapping since that would lead to a scenario where rich players would buy out all the bad mythics and whatnot leading to mythics not being as accessible (which is apparently like top 1 prio for devs)

im not sure if like.. just because he said that it wont get added tho ofc

[placid verge]

What a stupid ass reason

Major reason why mythics are considered so important as they are now is the wider item balance

No sensible person goes ahead and buys 10 percent shitrolled mythics anyway

Unless it's literally pocket change to improve build

[visual quarry]

I mean its a good idea keeping them accessible

[placid verge]

Yeah but it would matter less if non mythic options werent so much worse

[shadow summit]

Please fix mythic balance before trying to make legendaries compete

[native portal]

we think through all changes a lot before we make them

[glacial ruin]

fair

[worthy ibex]

alive again wth

[dry dew]

ill keep ts thread alive man eco is dear to me

whats an mmorpg without a good eco

either introduce a mythic scrapping system which might not happen or adjust the learning curve to sac stacking to prevent experienced players from just overwhelming the supply of mythics on the market and make it easier for newer players to grasp

[native portal]

sounds good to me

[worthy ibex]

i mean if it died i might write a new one with new discussion points and a summary from this 🤷

there is always new ideas

[gilded sun]

YESSSS GIVE ME PANDEMONIUM AS A BOON LMAOOOO

[gilded sun]

good idea!

[oblique pivot]

im sorry but this sounds so sarcastic 😭

[gilded sun]

No I actually mean it. Just keep track of total curses as an integer value, and use that for boss scaling

[oblique pivot]

ye thatd be good for lootrun bosses if its added

[gilded sun]

I mean, we ALREADY do this for "Gain 15% damage for every curse you have right now" boons and whatnot

[oblique pivot]

I do really like that as a concept

[gilded sun]

We want mini boses in loot runs. We want mini bosses in world events (as opposed to wave clear)

Players LOVE challenging themselves against a worthy opponent

[oblique pivot]

yeee, i lowk prefer fighting a boss rather than a swarm. then its also easier to learn attacks and can make builds like glass cannon way more viable in more content than just some raid bosses