the wynncraft post 2.0 update cycle

[solemn zenith]

fnaf guy 6 games and a movie (only the first one was kind of fun and not just a meaningless cash grab)

[open scroll]

but the lore!!!!1!!!!1!!!!!!one!!!!!1!!

[solemn zenith]

yea fuck the guy who made the lore he doesnt get to be int he movie

[weak light]

Yeah but the people balancing it hate this

[restive arrow]

It's weird how there's only a couple bad FNAF games and one of them wasn't even made by scott

[weak light]

But the people designing the game design it like this

[solemn zenith]

debateably so since a problem with warframe is metas that just completely room clear and delete everything

they just stopped balancing around it and just accepted that every other playable character room nukes

in like 2-3 button combinations

its popular though so clearly theya re doing something right but gameplay genuinely feels like brain rot

[fiery pivot]

i like 4 and 6

[open scroll]

in the average CTs mind they make choices and decisions as if this game was an mmorpg but then it just end up playing like an arpg

[solemn zenith]

if your character doesnt room nuke it single target nukes a miniboss/boss

[manic spear]

yeah cuz warframe has lore or something like that

[copper nimbus]

atp just revert wynn back to 1.20 bro

[solemn zenith]

it has an interesting story i guess but i cant get over the fact that their mouth animations are so scary

[copper nimbus]

spellbound was actually a pandora's box

[solemn zenith]

yes because htey never sought to fix the systemic issues before releasing new trinkets

[weak light]

I think lootrun update had way worse impact

[soft garden]

Should have kept spell spam dead

[copper nimbus]

it created an insane amount of issues in every area of the game that realistically aren't ever gonna get solved

[copper nimbus]

lootrun update would not have happened without spellbound

[solemn zenith]

i think it just snowballed the issues ngl

[soft garden]

Real mythics became the norm and nknmythic weapon builds r kind of dead 😭

[copper nimbus]

therefore spellbound caused all the issues

[solemn zenith]

they were already there in 1.20 its just way worse now

[copper nimbus]

impeccable logic. wynncraft should hire me as their lead CT.

[solemn zenith]

You have not seen captain america build.

[soft garden]

My bad g

[solemn zenith]

steven roger build you arent ready for it

[cunning ruin]

This is just a really bad take lol

[soft garden]

Jackie ball build goes crazy

[queen sierra]

Non mythic weapons just need like a big buff icl

[manic spear]

max jump height and negative damage build

[solemn zenith]

i dont think it is for endgame

its no secret that optimal way to clear raids is to just kill boss asap

[soft garden]

Mythic builds /high end builds nee to be shot instead imo

[cunning ruin]

Have you not considered the fact that endgame is just a broader and broader term because there's been no level cap increase in MANY years

And 2.1 raised the bar of content difficulty so people had to get better

[queen sierra]

Well its both an issue

[solemn zenith]

endgame necessitates optimized builds, and you dont really need optimized builds for anything other than warring and raiding so i would actually keep endgame as a pretty strict definition

[copper nimbus]

^

[cunning ruin]

Obviously killing things fast is the meta but you're not throwing if you play something different

[soft garden]

Altho some classes also don't have really good nonmythic options too tbh so there's that

[queen sierra]

Even if they nerfed high end builds that doesnt change shit cause non mythics are fucking dogshit

[midnight barn]

yah

[soft garden]

Like warrior nobmythic options are so 🥀

[cunning ruin]

I'm saying that endgame is a broad amount of players

[solemn zenith]

late game has been ever-expanding due to there not really being that much but saying "endgame" is like running around clearing quests and like world events is too broad a definition

[queen sierra]

Its not necessarily throwing its just theres such a huge power gap if your not playing the “meta”

[copper nimbus]

if I'm playing a build that contributes measurably less than the best build for my class in the same amount of time and I have the ability to switch to the best build for my class then I am throwing by definition

[solemn zenith]

throwing is merely a hyperbole you are just not contributing as much

[midnight barn]

well i mean maybe it kinda is i mean i did 3.7m damage with my weath shade in tna (some guy using warrir and doing 2 bajillion dps idk what build) but like idrk ngl

[copper nimbus]

that is not to say that playing off meta is invalid - like I said earlier, I pretty much exclusively play off meta, but it's still true that off meta = throwing to some extent

[open scroll]

when is it dropping?

[cunning ruin]

Much broader than it ever has been (obviously) and constantly growing when we do updates like 2.1 and even lootruns that is almost exclusively focused on endgame content and raises the difficulty bar

[solemn zenith]

july 4th

[midnight barn]

sometimes i do 20m damage

[soft garden]

As long as u don't die can solo and don't kill yo teammates u chilling fr

[midnight barn]

sometimes all the dps player die and then i can solo the boss

[queen sierra]

Like is it wrong to say that if i use things that arent absolute meta i shouldnt be losimg 100s of thousands dps?

[copper nimbus]

in reality you're not "throwing" in the sense that you could log off and your team wouldn't notice, but you are performing measurably worse than you could be and there's significant opportunity cost involved

[cunning ruin]

Your view of the game is warped by only talking to other people who raid because they feel obligated to or something

[solemn zenith]

yes, but endgame now with lootruns, wars, and raids is just dps tests in differnet forms
lootrun is how much aoe can you slap while also maintaining good mobillity
wars is how much dps you can get your 2 players to do while the rest of the 3 fight to stay alive,
and raids is how fast you can kill the boss to open the end chest and before your teammates end up dying

[cunning ruin]

There are countless players who raid for fun

[midnight barn]

ngl just nuke arcanist fallen and like uh laby and game fixed fr!!!

idk meta really

[manic spear]

most people raid for aspects though

[solemn zenith]

no one is saying its not fun to play raids casually but we're merely commenting ont he development of the metagame

[queen sierra]

Everyone raids for fun

[midnight barn]

u sure?

[cunning ruin]

I already said it's not rocket science that killing boss faster is better but you're only looking at this from one single perspective and none of the other ones

[queen sierra]

Its THE endgame content

[solemn zenith]

its not necessarily a criticism on other perspectives (playing off meta) we are just discussing why it got to this point

[copper nimbus]

everyone raids for fun but the existence of the aspects system means that you have to do the same raids thousands of times and at some point killing the boss faster makes the game more fun

[cunning ruin]

It got to this point because of human nature lol

[solemn zenith]

because not everyone has 7 hours to waste every day and wants to make the most of their time rather

[copper nimbus]

well it's not like there's much else to do

[manic spear]

raids are the only content where you can get aspects and specific tomes so its pretty obvious where the path of least resistance is

[queen sierra]

Like the fact this exists also inherently creates a toxic environment

[solemn zenith]

but i guess human nature

[open scroll]

you can't just choose to ignore the state of the meta just because only a small part of the playerbase actually cares for it

[cunning ruin]

We encouraged you to play better and play harder with endgame focused updates that test different skills and you obviously found the most broken combinations because you were playing way more and were way more focused

[midnight barn]

you can uh
level up classes
but people wanna make insta level so idk

with like quests n stuff real gameplay

[copper nimbus]

level up classes by what? paying for ranks with money I don't have? 😭

[cunning ruin]

It's never been ignored lol. But I also shouldn't go the other way (which is what everyone here is suggesting) and only consider the highest level meta gameplay

[solemn zenith]

i think at least you should be able to try different classes when you reach endgame with your first one so theres no buyers regret

[midnight barn]

the quest book

[copper nimbus]

I've already 100%ed the quest book on 3 classes

[midnight barn]

crazy

[solemn zenith]

no one suggested that you only consider the highest level of meta gameplay, rather we are commenting on the large gap between average player and super optimized endgame

[copper nimbus]

like trust me I've played the game and at some point the most sustainable form of wynncraft endgame is just raiding

[queen sierra]

^^^

[open scroll]

it is fine for there to exist optimal combinations/strats, every game has that, the current problem is that the gap between an absolute meta build and an otherwise good build is way too large

[solemn zenith]

we are actually agreeing on this im ngl

at least people who are agreeing with what i am saying are just commenting ont he large disparity

[copper nimbus]

and then when it comes to raiding the gap between "meta" and "off meta" or "non meta" is so high that you are just not contributing very much to a meta party if you're wearing something far off from the meta

which is the entire conversation that we've been having so far

[cunning ruin]

Some people are suggesting that and using hyperbole doesn't make you look like you're reasonable

[rustic bone]

I think what we are all trying to say is buff bolt

[open scroll]

i can run the absolute best 8/8 crafted strati build or i can swap to warp arcanist and do atleast 2x damage with more qol

[cunning ruin]

Saying that it's throwing to not use a high level meta build isn't gonna get your opinion heard

[open scroll]

character power is completely imbalanced between classes

[copper nimbus]

I mean I'll correct my choice of words if that's the issue

[queen sierra]

I mean saying reduce the power gap is applicable to like all types of players

[solemn zenith]

have you considered that text speech lacks nuance, and it clearly wasnt meant to be true objective criticism rather an expression of personal opinion

[copper nimbus]

would it be more reasonable to say that you're measurably performing worse if you play a build significantly off the meta and that gap has been getting wider recently

[queen sierra]

If i dont want to play the meta, why should i lose so much damage and qol right

[copper nimbus]

that's what I'm trying to say when I mean "throwing" but I agree that throwing is probably too strong of a word, my bad

[manic spear]

tone policing of a mild response is not arguing in good faith either

[cunning ruin]

Also read my earlier comments from hours ago in this thread lol this feels like it's just a circular conversation where the same thing gets raised as if nothing is happening when it is

[queen sierra]

Throwing is definitely not the right word

[solemn zenith]

we are just talking bro 😭 and mildly constructively

[midnight barn]

most meta builds are just glass slap so like what qol dying in 2 hits?

[rustic bone]

We took the slop out of the post

[solemn zenith]

not every discussion needs to reachs ome grand conclusion

[manic spear]

fax feedback blacklist op

[cunning ruin]

It's not tone policing it's an extremely common narrative that I constantly see and I think that players really do believe that lol. It's an unhealthy sentiment

[queen sierra]

Gango is hero etw

[open scroll]

whats the ehp on hero fallen upper scream?

[solemn zenith]

30k

[queen sierra]

Is LABY etw??

[open scroll]

how is that dying in 2 hits xD

[solemn zenith]

or like 40k or something

[midnight barn]

you can heal or smth

[solemn zenith]

plus war scream 20% plus saviors sacrifice

[queen sierra]

Dude do you even know what the meta is

[midnight barn]

uh kinda

[open scroll]

give us a list

[solemn zenith]

@rustic bone you are playing meta

[rustic bone]

Yea captain america

[solemn zenith]

etw broken balance thank god its meta now

[midnight barn]

divzer whatever
arcanist
fallen
laby

[queen sierra]

Or do you think the meta is brainrot because people are complaining abt it being braindead

[copper nimbus]

fyi the meta rn is mostly high ws qol builds that deal 85%-90% of the dps of the top dps builds for the class

because those builds can clear raids more consistently and quickly than the true highest damage builds

[solemn zenith]

BATTERY YOU ARE PLAYING META

[open scroll]

ok so hyper glass, warp (agi), hero (agi), laby (def)

[manic spear]

divzer archer is basically throwing

[solemn zenith]

do not exaggerate

[open scroll]

please tell me how this is a glass canon 2 hit and die meta

[manic spear]

my bad its archer

[midnight barn]

dont people use tcrack or smth thats what i used for fallen

or alka

[copper nimbus]

not outside notg

[rustic bone]

Generational fumble on the divzer take

[copper nimbus]

notg meta is an abhorrent mess though and probably not worth bringing up

[midnight barn]

notg is easy

[copper nimbus]

given how broken wall cheese is

[queen sierra]

Gango divzer is played on the class with 2 red nodes lmao

[midnight barn]

they should make the outer wall have lava on them fr

[open scroll]

ok think about it like this, you can use tcrack and die in 2 hits, or use hero and never die while dealing 95% of tcrack damage and 5x the mobility

[manic spear]

I Was Only Merely Pretending To Ragebait

[rustic bone]

If only bro hero just does the same if not slightly less with 4x ehp and 140+ ws

[queen sierra]

Your scrapping the bottom of the barrel

[solemn zenith]

Hyperglass meta in question

[midnight barn]

or just a giant pit to dripstone

[open scroll]

which do you think is meta?

[copper nimbus]

[fiery pivot]

what is the notg meta other than laby?

[solemn zenith]

btw most of the water is lament

[open scroll]

acolyte

[fiery pivot]

is it iust shaman idk

[rustic bone]

Acolyte

[solemn zenith]

abso laby trapper in general actually

[copper nimbus]

tcrack/alka fallen
reso
tstack sunstar
trickshade

[rustic bone]

Not shaman it's acolyte

[solemn zenith]

pbomb is ok

[rustic bone]

Tried sneaking sunstar in there

[solemn zenith]

anything with large aoe really

[copper nimbus]

sunstar tstack is pretty meta if you sniff a lot of crack beforehand

[solemn zenith]

you will never guess what tree the tstack sunstar takes

[open scroll]

i honestly cant believe that ec hasnt been nerfed into the ground yet

[rustic bone]

I feel u on this but with divzer

[copper nimbus]

yeah but exploding means that it actually deals meta competitive dps

[manic spear]

but if they did the playerbase might actually think they nerf everything fun

[copper nimbus]

• ec and vengeful for team support to help out the 3 fallens in your party 😂

[manic spear]

😱

[solemn zenith]

@midnight barn by the way this is the current meta (past may 24th)

[cyan lily]

surprised thunder isn't that big

[solemn zenith]

yeah

[open scroll]

can some1 tell me why this hasnt been nerfed yet?

[solemn zenith]

do not look warrior

[cyan lily]

um whats this again, if its acrobat im stupid lol

[queen sierra]

I feel like when your nerfs change nothing about a weapons powr or position in the meta and your buffs dont do shit and its still a substantially worse option you need to like change up how your balancing stuff yeah

[midnight barn]

12.5% use guard crazy

[solemn zenith]

where is my hyperglass meta

[fiery pivot]

how did you get this data?

[cyan lily]

nah i just remembered it's ecal

[solemn zenith]

wynn analytics discord

we have a team that manually tracks raid information and build information

this is about 1000 datapoints

[cyan lily]

ecall's balanced bc it's range isn't a constantly effect its limited to it's tentacles and if theres more mobs than tentacles then those extra mobs just have to wait their turn to get hit

[rustic bone]

We made the numbers up to push a narrative actually

[fiery pivot]

thats sick asf

[open scroll]

my guy have you seen the range

24 block radius

[queen sierra]

Bro its basically kill
Aura

[open scroll]

thats notg arena size

[cyan lily]

yeah ecall is goated

[queen sierra]

You pop it and it does everything for you

You dont even have to aim or nun

[cyan lily]

no its not, ecall is 12 blocks from totem, if you're imagining 24 blocks from totem then you'r wrong sry

[fiery pivot]

warriors mythic distributions are just sad

[solemn zenith]

yeah

[rustic bone]

Nah but fr it was made cuz in alot of situations like this bunch of people have skewed perspective on what people run just from personal experiences or raiding with people so it's just alot easier to show someone how it actually is by keeping track on what's being run

[round plover]

Buff hero plz

[solemn zenith]

hero just needs to be toned down i am of the opinion the rest of the class isn't that bad

[queen sierra]

Hero needs a meaningful damage nerf

And not a qol nerf (warp)

[open scroll]

its 24 radius

[round plover]

Cap its too weak

[queen sierra]

You right gang 😞

[solemn zenith]

hero just needs its +strdex removed i think and it would be a lot more balanced

[fiery pivot]

ofc, its really impressive how much data was actually collected tho

[cyan lily]

yes so 12 blocks from totem, anyways i am agreeing that ecall is busted

[solemn zenith]

honestly 1000 over 30 days is kinda ass we've been slowing down a lot

[open scroll]

do you know what radius is

[solemn zenith]

our previous 2-week periods hit like 1000 im p sure

[queen sierra]

Inb4 main attack damage and hpr% nerf

[solemn zenith]

24 blocks from totem ur thinking diameter

[rustic bone]

Nerf dodge too

[cyan lily]

ain't no way they mean the mathmatical definition

[open scroll]

wtf do you think radius means

guys i think we found the median voter

[solemn zenith]

its a 4x area increase, 8x volume increase

[cyan lily]

im hopping on wynncraft right now to see if it's actually 24 blocks from totem

[solemn zenith]

it is!

12 blocks from totem is slightly more than totem range dawg 😄

[cyan lily]

I KNOW WHAT RADIUS MEANS I ALWAYS THOUGHT THEY MEANT AREA LOL

[solemn zenith]

gg

[cyan lily]

well yeah im not arguing against that :P

[copper nimbus]

incredible

[cyan lily]

thx for the insult 💀

[manic spear]

area??? bro what

[cyan lily]

yeah if radius meant area then this is valid 😭 and i always thought radius meant area in wynncraft abilities

[open scroll]

24 area 😭

[solemn zenith]

12 block area??

thats like 2 block radius fire emoji

[cyan lily]

okay now you're just being rude 😭

[solemn zenith]

gg......

[cyan lily]

i never thought of radius in wynncraft as mathmatical radius im sorrryyyy guysss

[fiery pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/congratulations-congratulations-gif-gif-4562984421863741451

[solemn zenith]

radius as in radius of a circle

[copper nimbus]

radius as in the radius in pi*r^2

[solemn zenith]

or of any circular projection

erm actually its radius as in 4/3pi*r^3

[copper nimbus]

is ecall a sphere

[solemn zenith]

wait it might be a cylinder

[cyan lily]

i always thought radius could vaguely mean aoe and i stuck to that for some reason im sorrryyyyy

[copper nimbus]

thought it was a cylinder

[solemn zenith]

yeah ur right its a cylinder

with half height of 24 i think

[copper nimbus]

not that it matters lol nothing worth hitting is more than 12 blocks off the ground

[solemn zenith]

i mean ur not wrong radius does vageuly mean aoe

[solemn zenith]

nol room 1 autumnal haze

thats... about it

[open scroll]

wynncraft has a special evil definition of radius

[solemn zenith]

they are like 14 blocks off the ground which you will come to find quite annoying given there is something that gives 12 block immunity

and also like 13-14 blocks away from the center platform which seems like a cruel joke

[cyan lily]

guys let me explain its refered to as aoe IN FUCKING GAME and this is my first time seeing it as radius so i just assumed yall meant aoe 😭 my bad peeps

[prisma cedar]

what...

[rustic bone]

Ye not first time in game description just lies lol

[solemn zenith]

what the fuck 😭

[copper nimbus]

that's actually fair tbh I still drk if better totem radius adds 4 blocks to radius or 4 blocks to diameter

[cyan lily]

yeah hopefully this explains it bc i have literally never seen it refered to as radius until now and always assumed it was aoe bc its called aoe 😵‍💫

[prisma cedar]

id assume 4 blocks to radius

[rustic bone]

If only they were capable of using the words radius or diameter 🤯

[prisma cedar]

they would never use diameter

[rustic bone]

They will use "aoe"

[prisma cedar]

aoe is a common mmo term

honestly common gaming term

[cyan lily]

https://tenor.com/view/i-cant-take-this-shit-mad-angry-dave-chappell-gif-15004207

[rustic bone]

Yea not when ur trying to specify exactly how big something is

[cyan lily]

yes i make an honestly mistake of thinking radius means aoe when it's always been called aoe thanks for the chimp comments guys

[solemn zenith]

youa re welcome

you should be punished for your insolence

[cyan lily]

really makes yout seem liek a person who i wanna have a conversation with (sarcasm 😭)

i did not know wynncraft had THAT much toxcity (before somebody says "baby's first insult" just don't bro)

[open scroll]

did you not understand the image? im not calling you a chimp 😭

[queen sierra]

Its not that serious

[cyan lily]

yeah its not, but its not nessecary either

[queen sierra]

This shits been toxic since the dawn of time

[cyan lily]

unfortunately 😔

[copper nimbus]

the joke in the chimp image is that the median voter is really stupid

it's just a reaction meme not a targeted insult lol

[cyan lily]

alright alright lol mb

i took it as i was a chimp who was bad at understanding stuff and that i should kermit le unaliving so um 😬

[open scroll]

this might actually be the mythical median voter

[copper nimbus]

since this is constructive feedback I have to call you a ragebaiter for disagreeing with me 😔

[cyan lily]

maybe 😌 my coming is as foretold

[copper nimbus]

just the way things work around here

[cyan lily]

i've already forgotten on what i disagreed with lol

[tidal forum]

sorry og dont know you ar rthe boss for everything

[open scroll]

hi failure

[tidal forum]

hi error

[open scroll]

this thread is very good, there are some gems here

[tidal forum]

https://tenor.com/view/jalen-hurts-jalen-hurts-meek-mill-i-used-to-pray-for-times-like-this-gif-13709870523385828441

[cyan lily]

this thread is a silly billy

[solemn zenith]

yeah but aspects make it like super obnoxious to play certain archetypes without it

especially considering said archetypes are balanced around aspects

and the grind is a bit if a slog if the tater aspect isn’t in pool

[true cobalt]

i mean yeah but i think this is a separate issue to the thread no?

[solemn zenith]

contributes to burnout

[true cobalt]

mmmm fair

[solemn zenith]

you can make the argument that you don’t have to do raids but like… it’s disingenuous

you straight up can’t do wars past the baseline difficulty without aspects

[queen sierra]

Grind li for legendary medallion

Very hype

[solemn zenith]

endgame is supposed to be what you do after you finish the grind/most of it idk why lootrun is even remotely considered endgame

and why people pretend it is

it’s certainly a grind able activity but it is not endgame

and like idk there’s nothing really to do after you get all aspects and reach super end game other than warring i guess

sad cuz it gets no real support

[open scroll]

2028

[solemn zenith]

omg.

confirm? @ct

[open scroll]

only 3 years away!

[midnight barn]

more people use bolt or rift than shade

insane

[proud dirge]

other games have a way to make tanks and healers more skilled, wynncraft could do the same with more mechanics around them

[timid quarry]

Fortitude buff :)

That's plenty depth for this game nobody will get to have fun otherwise

[queen sierra]

Hella depth in upperscream hero

[timid quarry]

Why would it need depth what

The corrupted bar and its conditions+variations are plenty depth for the entire archetype if you think otherwise you don't play wynncraft enough

[queen sierra]

Yeah dude thats so hard to understand man

Press 2 buttons 😱😱😱😱

[timid quarry]

There's always lightbender for you to play if it's too much then, there's always a solution

[queen sierra]

Thanks man i was having difficulty understanding the complexity

[timid quarry]

No problem, I guess.

[solemn zenith]

rift is 7.3%

so no

[midnight barn]

7.3 isnt bigger than 5.1???

[solemn zenith]

oh

im ngl i might be stupid i thought that said bolt than rift or shade 🔥

[midnight barn]

rip

[proud dirge]

ppl don't use riftwalker, they use riftbender/riftcanist, so % is lower

[solemn zenith]

we manually check trees so no this is not the case

and for automatic ones it is decided by timelocked

[mellow star]

Holy shit 1343 messages, +1 ig

[gilded island]

i cant wait for the pz potion to come out in fruma

[rich walrus]

Id like wynncraft to have a raid similar to ones in destiny or wow.

Takes 20 min with a good group but needs to be learned first and might even take 2-3 hours on first try.

[manic spear]

party finder is already aids we dont need to make it super cancer

[rich walrus]

Maybe only guilds can join it and compete vs each other in it?

[timid quarry]

Awful Idea

[solemn zenith]

correct, i do nto want to be in a party with eternal oblivion for more than 10 minutes

[timid quarry]

Let's NoL!

[solemn zenith]

No. (L)

[timid quarry]

Come on we can watch all the cutscenes..

[solemn zenith]

while holding hands..?

[timid quarry]

Swap hands button broke sry

[summer apex]

Best stats for acolyte shaman?

[proud dirge]

abso stats

[summer apex]

yo why the hell did that message send into this chat 🥀

this was meant to #🗿class_builds

[outer wing]

Honestly though I feel you
the feeling of feeling completely useless if your not playing the meta really sucks
right now there's an issue with raids where if you don't play the meta your pretty much useless which is really bad
along with the fact that so many archetypes and mythics are just completely unviable is really sad as well
I really hope this will change in the future

[outer wing]

this is so real honestly

[barren oxide]

and that's why lootrun is the best endgame content

[solemn zenith]

who playin only meta in the big 25

[sick orbit]

wrong its wars

[hot spear]

They’ll find a way to skip them with dps

[barren oxide]

if you can kill the boss fast enough, no undodgeable attack!

so literally TCC

[proud dirge]

TCC sword swing dmg can be tanked with overheal, unless it's guildraid

[barren oxide]

overhealth? In MY DPS meta??

[charred stirrup]

oh man if only there was a relik that could do both overhealth and epic damage!!!

[outer wing]

you can tank it without overhealth just fine lmao
it literally does barely any damage 😂

[proud dirge]

reso can do both