#New player experience (ftue)

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

lean plinth
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Wanted to add onto this, wynntil's ingame map has level markers for all major areas which gives a great idea of what content you should be gravitating towards

cunning oxide
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but this is already sort of the case, since that mob still gives you more xp than at level mobs, despite being 15 levels higher... just for the price of a few more hits or spells... I understand your point about you feeling that it gives not enough xp for your work, but I just don't think most people feel this way, nor do I think that it is a bad idea to have this mechanic or soft-cap in the game to discourage the average player from fighting mobs that are too high or too low level...

frail dagger
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"I want to level up faster" isn't the goal of my feedback, "I want to level up at the same pace, but funner" is.

cunning oxide
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this

ember crypt
frail dagger
cunning oxide
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not going to lie, I kinda like how its the case that if I fight higher level mobs, the xp gain as I level up not decreases, but increases for a few levels, and only then starts decreasing again.

lean plinth
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speaking of xp gain, @livid anvil I heard in the wynntils discord that the xp gain module no longer works because wynn doesnt send accurate xp gains and instead updates more slowly. Is this true/intentional?

cunning oxide
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and while that xp decrease is at your own level, it feels like its a few levels below your own level, because you need more and more raw xp value each level, but thats still always only 100% xp per level, so there is a difference between reality and when you feel like xp gain starts to decrease, and I think its just at the right place

frail dagger
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XP gain falling off when you out-level something feels natural.

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Some games use clever down-scaling systems to still make it paced well if you go into early zone content as a veteran, but those have a lot of potential downsides, you have to really nail the progression with that in mind earlier rather than work it in after the fact unless you do a LOT of work

cunning oxide
# frail dagger If you want me to stand in front of two different mobs, one being at-level (~lev...

again I understand your point, but discouraging the average player from fighting too high level mobs with them giving a bit less xp than the amount of work would give you is a really good trade-off or compromise in my opinion, it prevents so many issues and also helps guide regular players. again, the challenge is being able to defeat those mobs, if you wish to do so, and not that they give a lot more xp

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its an issue that some players might have, but its not an issue that will stop them from playing wynncraft altogether, not even one bit... so changing this system would be bad overall

frail dagger
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I agree the current system to prevent abuses is better than no-system-at-all to prevent abuses. I also believe, partly because I've played many other games that didn't run into the issue I experienced, that there are various ways to prevent those abuses without running into the issue I experienced.

cunning oxide
lean plinth
frail dagger
ember crypt
frail dagger
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blushes

ember crypt
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Rainbow meta my beloved

frail dagger
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A lot of the reasons you all might never hear about these kind of friction points and issues is because those players don't get invested enough to join the discord. I only did because as a dev I really admired the level of wizardry and dedication to make Wynncraft a project for so many years and keep an active player base. That's awesome. wanted to pass on some feedback briefly in case they found it useful, even if I wasn't likely to stick around further.

At this point though I"ve spent more time in this thread than playing the game. I do have to get back to work too. ;)

vivid mural
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you can quest to 105 but if you dont have a rough idea of optimal play of your own archetype or even what morph set is you're cooked already

woven mist
vivid mural
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wynn is pretty much carried by word of mouth

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they should focus on making good content and let players come naturally wow who could have ever come up with this idea 🤯

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there are avenues other than gameplay they can explore

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the lore and story department coming into question

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i cant imagine anybody playing warframe for fun but a bunch of people came for 1989 for the story aspect i assume

frail dagger
vivid mural
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or most gacha games

vivid mural
ember crypt
frail dagger
vivid mural
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well in your opinion

frail dagger
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No I mean in broad popular consensus.

vivid mural
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yeah a lot of people also play call of duty

frail dagger
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Lots of people don’t like it but obviously it’s not hard to imagine many people enjoying it when it’s 99% of the game for the first 200 hours

vivid mural
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and league of legends

ember crypt
frail dagger
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Ah gotcha. You’re just in the contrarian mood

vivid mural
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i have my gripes

lean plinth
frail dagger
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Heck even Josh Strife Hayes video went extensively about he thought the combat wasn’t just great but possibly the best in a 3rd person action mmo he’d played, but the complexity of the systems made it so hard to get into and undercut that

vivid mural
vivid mural
frail dagger
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“I can’t imagine anyone enjoying X”
“Here’s a lot of people”
“Well who cares what a lot of people think? They like call of duty.”
“Here’s one highly knowledgeable person”
“Appeal to authority.”

vivid mural
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you know what appeal to authority is right

frail dagger
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Yes. You clearly do not.

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I direct you to the fallacy fallacy

ember crypt
vivid mural
ember crypt
vivid mural
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thats grinding teeth

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not a video game opinion

ember crypt
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Pain in your gums and sensitive teeth are not objectively bad things but most people can agree it's a bad thing

frail dagger
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Evil just wants to be a contrarian. There’s no point

ember crypt
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The point is, if someone with intimate knowledge and experience voices their opinion, you should take it into deep consideration.

It can absolutely be false, I'm not guaranteeing every scientist or doctor will never be wrong ever in the history of time, but you should hold their opinions with more respect when they have hundreds or even thousands more hours of experience in a given topic than you do

frail dagger
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Dude thinks warframe has bad combat (no big deal), that just surprised me because it’s usually praised specifically for that, we don’t need to take it further. Once someone starts making “fallacy fallacies” conversation isn’t going anywhere w

frail dagger
vivid mural
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i can tell someone that war is bad because mahatma ghandi said so but war is good for the economy actually

ember crypt
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@vivid mural let's take your argument at face value for its merit.

1.) Expert says it's good combat
2.) Lots of people play the game and say it's good combat

Your Counter:
1.) An expert opinion is not fact
2.) A lot of other people play other games that are bad

1.) Valid. You shouldn't treat it as a biblical text handed down from the heavens, but it DOES carry weight. Keep it in consideration
2.) You could absolutely make an argument for a game being bad but having a specific niche. Cough cough ARK Survival Evolved but that's not the case here. Look at the steam reviews on ark. Look at the reviews on Warframe. Look a the reviews on Modern Warfare. When TONS of players say "top tier game" for a variety of reasons like combat, movement, flow, aesthetics, customization, fantastic/transparent dev team, etc etc etc, it's pretty damn fuckin convincing lmao

vivid mural
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would be better to compare warframe to destiny

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its obvious which one wins here but i will not elaborate

cunning oxide
ember crypt
fallow hound
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on the topic of higher tier mobs granting less xp, do the games with the other systems also have xp sharing like in wynncraft?

ember crypt
frail dagger
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Overhauling overworld exploration incentives and flow would be way too big a dev ask at this point though. Better to just focus the directional quests and reduce the clutter, maybe add more in world direction to certain areas instead. Encouraging questing instead of mob grinding in general is a good idea and naturally solves most issues with staying in one farm location

vivid mural
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mob grinding isnt ever actively encouraged

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you wont know about grind spots in a natural fashion

frail dagger
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It’s fun to talk about what you’d do with infinite scope or a fresh start but the devs will almost always benefit just by refining current systems vs redoing things

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Gonna keep emphasizing it’s legit impressive how much the dev team has done with base Minecraft. Look what happened to hytale.

fallow hound
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imagine if they made hytale open source now that it's cancelled

vivid mural
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eh i think hytale's original pitch is questionable

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they were promising full mod support on day one

frail dagger
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That’s fine

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If you plan that from the beginning it can be done just fine.

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You just have to be diligent with the dev tools to also support modding.

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If that’s why they reinvented their engine then that’s dumb as heck but the general pitch is no red flags there

ember crypt
mellow mason
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😭

ember crypt
fallow hound
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@frail dagger something I just realized is that wynn has a very direct method of giving the player freedom. At the start of the game, in the tutorial, the player has zero open world freedom. Then, there is an intended direction towards Detlas, and towards a few different areas. Later in the progression, the player unlocks ocean islands and a whole other province on the other side of it. It really seems like wynn tries to ease the player into the game being semi open-world (there are still different level enemies ofc). Not really any specific purpose for saying this, it's just something interesting I noticed.

patent widget
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Wynncraft lets me beat the final soloable bosses with a depressing weapon

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That’s freedom enough for me

mellow mason
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bro's joining the party when it's already over 💀

mint tartan
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I don’t think it received that many :likent

tardy belfry
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i got the 🫃 reaction notif silly ender claw...

mint tartan
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It was mostly just mpreg emojis

mint tartan
tardy belfry
mint tartan
tardy belfry