nerf tna worms/avoid worm oneshots

[pure quartz]

TNA watched phase worms have no right to oneshot players, especially with pfinder where people run around randomly
the amount of times i've either died or took half my health with no warning is insane

what are you supposed to in a position like this? there's nowhere to run and the projectiles those worms throw are pure rng
https://medal.tv/games/minecraft/clips/kusry9kw0lc1y-Tnb?invite=cr-MSwxelMsMjY5Mjg4ODc4

the entire tna fight is surviving really easy attacks that only really kill you when you're either in a really unlucky situation or the audio que for them doesnt work or just pure rng deaths that you have no way to dodge

[brave prism]

13k hp agi fail

[rocky trench]

We should add more insta kills for people to stop ruining pf with the big mac build

[pure quartz]

notg:

but yeah having either a divzer or a bic mac in tna kindaaa sucks

[brave prism]

u did also kinda just walk into them in this clip lmao

tho i wish their attacks werent random ranges

[pure quartz]

my other options were running into a different player and falling in a void hole and probably dying or run to the most open area and hope i dont die to rng

[brave prism]

running towards the other corner is the correct play

[rocky trench]

The hardest part of watched is the fall dmg from going into a random hole
I love shaman movement

[pure quartz]

how

there is a player in the way, i'm not gonna run into another player at the third beam

[brave prism]

their beam cant hit you

the only danger is their voidhole but thats generally fine compared to worm

[rocky trench]

Assert dominance and pvp them back and solo

[pure quartz]

but i can still fall in the void hole

[brave prism]

u could also use the barrier to fling urself

tho corner sucks at it

[pure quartz]

theoretically yeah but no way i'm thinking that in half a second

[brave prism]

idk i like using the barrier its funny

[rotund egret]

Maybe you forget, TNA boss isn't scary, the scariest thing is your teammate

It's a real pvp battle.

Watched Voidhole, Voidhole, weird aggro moving, overlapping flying skulls,..etc

It's much easier to kill greg without your teammate

[rain lynx]

teamwork raid🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[rotund egret]

Based lies

[ancient beacon]

not killing each other does require teamwork

[fringe valve]

Tna pvp

[fresh cloak]

yeah lol

[slate sedge]

bpact people are genuinely a fourth gambit that doesn't even give you matching rewards fr

[sterile raven]

i do think their damage should be tuned down tbh, the attack doing the damage is fine but there is a large desync between the visual and the actual hitbox which means dying to voidworms is more unluckiness than a skill issue, if it wasnt desynced then it could be played around but the unreadability basically jsut turns them into zones where u have a random chance of dying standing near, the range also feels very inconsistant icl, its been said the desync cant be fixed so a numbers change is prolly the best fix or changing them to a dot of some kidn

[nova solstice]

Endgame raid moment

[alpine token]

div players do not say anything cause they already went spectator mode

also agi fail cry about it

[alpine token]

how is everyone saying big mac suck i'd want a one for sure when im running aco

free blood pool and i give them overhealth for them to give more blood pool to me its a win win

[arctic nexus]

classic pvpna

[rotund egret]

Currently, Gregs attacks have insane base damage, it's too devastating for dps classes/builds but at the same time it doesn't do much or any damage against tank builds (aka Guardian buger). The damage should be adjusted to incorporate a percentage-based health scaling rather than relying on excessively high flat damage.

[grizzled sapphire]

TNA Worms try not to have the worst telegraphed attack in the game challenge

Those slime chunks DO NOT have an honest hitbox

and detract from Watched by somehow outdamaging it

and also snowball your raid if you miss pillars in graid, don't we all love snowballing difficulty?!!

[lucid ruin]

This post is true and real, I won't let anyone tell me it's a skill issue

Also I like your tail

[graceful ravine]

what’s with the divzer callout

also you kinda killed yourself in the clip

[rocky trench]

Glad they topped pre rekindled colosus bullshit with worms

In the head phase, lag for 1 second upon phase transition and get one shoted by the mouth

[sterile raven]

this is honestly a very educated cruticism of it icl

[graceful ravine]

isn’t this the point

it’s like the only thing about graid watched that is somewhat hard to deal with

[sterile raven]

im not a fan of snowballing difficulty icl, it means that experienced players will never get punished and the raid essentially gets harder the worse u are

[grizzled sapphire]

I figured Watched would be threatening enough to be the punishment, it keeps going until the pillars are gone
However now it spawned a worm (sometimes right next to the pillar) whose attack is basically a coin flip in terms of if you'll be allowed to dodge it or not with the hit dealing crazy damage if it does flip

at best it's very redundant, at worst it's a frustrating loss

[lucid ruin]

League moment

[grizzled sapphire]

snowballing isn't objectively bad of course, it's how this case of snowballing paired with the very disagreeable boss mechanics feels to go up against

If it were up to me honestly, I would remove the worms and increase the size of the void holes that Watched spawns and possibly their damage dealt too

[lucid ruin]

jh meta incoming

[rocky trench]

Thank god its not up to you

[grizzled sapphire]

I mean idk what else to do that wouldn't force a new attack to be made

[rocky trench]

Leave it as it is and git gud

[grizzled sapphire]

the whole point of the worms and void holes was to pressure positioning and space usage

[rocky trench]

The game already requires no skill cuz shit like laby or macros exist, at least force good positioning 😭

[pure quartz]

pfinder divzer players do 3 spells and die

so i usually end up doing a 3 player raid

[grizzled sapphire]

Protecting problematic design by calling those that fall victim to it not skillful is definitely an approach

[rocky trench]

The guy who made this thread literally ran into the worm projectile 🗿

[pure quartz]

ok so what would you have done there

a teammate that i didnt see blocked my only path out

and considering i'm with shaman and a pfinder party that's running all over the place jumping into the void hole from his beam was a much bigger risk

[graceful ravine]

If you match or exceed his pace then def not

[grizzled sapphire]

for the thread video, I genuinely cannot tell that he got hit by something

like of course he got hit with a slime chunk but nowhere in the video can I see where it came from or when it was even on screen before hitting him

[graceful ravine]

I feel that everyone in this thread is oblivious to the idea of blindspots

[rocky trench]

I should make a thread about so much noise in nol that you cant hear the roar telegram and you get ligma balled across the arena

[pure quartz]

exceed by a lot but by the time i realized what's happening it was already third beam

[grizzled sapphire]

blud died before it landed

Bro should've predicted the future smh

[pure quartz]

that's not even the projectile that killed me

i died to a THIRD projectile that wasnt ever on my screen after it was thrown out

[grizzled sapphire]

the attack could've at least had the courtesy to appear on screen before hitting him since he was looking about level and in third person

[rocky trench]

He died to tna aura farming

[grizzled sapphire]

TNA boss try not to just make up shit to kill people

[rocky trench]

https://tenor.com/view/sunshower-heathcliff-godcliff-potential-man-carmilla-limbus-company-gif-1470217040597889042

I wish the bosses were like... Requiring you to pay respect and not treat them like housing dummies

Nothing can be done about tcc but tna is a joke

[grizzled sapphire]

sure I agree but this attack is not done correctly lmao

[rocky trench]

I find graid tna easier cuz it has more nothing burger attacks like the big ass portal

The only risk in tna is the roar and you dont hear it cuz theres limit of sounds that can play at once

[pure quartz]

guild TNA is just dont stand still and you're fine

[grizzled sapphire]

Yeah TNA is kinda very one dimensional, if you outrun his walkspeed you straight up win with hardly any contest

[patent plank]

I’m glad someone else feels the same about that. The gimmicks behind Graid TNA are actually just significantly easier to understand, and get the intended effect across much better, especially with more fun builds

Makes the fight easier than the normal fight, since I can run the incomprehensible while my guild mate runs wanderer’s purpose

[rocky trench]

Notg is idk even whats the gimmick
Tcc is oversized housing dummy
Nol is a fucking touhou if you cant tank the 50 blue projectoles
Tna is a joke

[grizzled sapphire]

atp I only properly enjoy TCC boss because it actually feels like a boss instead of a big guy with one overcentralizing generic gimmick

[pure quartz]

oh boy do i have clips for that

sometimes i die to the wind in that boss

[grizzled sapphire]

I genuinely have not lost against TNA in high walkspeed builds because bro has absolutely zero offensive pressure against moving targets

[pure quartz]

https://medal.tv/games/minecraft/clips/ksUg9q0Zuk-a7QtBf?invite=cr-MSxIWnAsMjY5Mjg4ODc4

[grizzled sapphire]

ight that one I got no excuse for

ik the sword swipe has a shit lingering hitbox so maybe it was that?

[pure quartz]

that was before the swipe happened

[rocky trench]

Tcc leaned into you and you died

Aura from looking at his chin clearly

[grizzled sapphire]

I know but I don't change my answer

Wynncraft jank or something

[pure quartz]

lingering hitbox is this

[grizzled sapphire]

idk maybe Nexus would feel less housing dummy if his melee attack was real

[rocky trench]

Nol raid is so close to being perfect...
But then you get random lvls 70 who dont skip cutscenes

[pure quartz]

i've also had fights where he did sword slam 3 times in a row (4 but not exactly in a row)

[rocky trench]

At least my build can solo all crystaline in 2 seconds so thats not a problem

[grizzled sapphire]

when Orphion follows up his charge spam with a roar that covers 90% of the arena

[pure quartz]

ah NoL

every projectile turns into 4 more projectiles that also cover the entire arena

[rocky trench]

And now thats a real touhou boss and not tna trying to catch you and fail

[grizzled sapphire]

prevent Orphion from carpet bombing the arena with roar and adjust the summons that delete your mana bar with no reactive counterplay

then fix Parasite dealing no damage unless it's the bouncing slime chunk that deals a morbillion damage

[rocky trench]

There are summons like that?

[grizzled sapphire]

iirc the big face guys shoot infinite homing projectiles that sap your shit

some builds if you leave them alive for like 15s+ you just lose because no more spellcasting

[rocky trench]

Some dev said thats intended

That you have to actually like idk. Clear the mobs and not only focus the boss

If you let the mobs stack up youll have a bad time

[grizzled sapphire]

I can understand that but I'd say have a healthier punishment rather than "if your class uses mana you lose"

[rocky trench]

Nol is also i think the only raid where toxo from abysmall dogshit is a niche option. The poison is so op for rooms and nukes all boss summons

While healing and giving 20% dmg boost to the fallen abusers

[grizzled sapphire]

sometimes that time is taken up by clearing crystallines or maybe healing teammates so idk

[rocky trench]

Toxo can kill all crystalines in 2 ticks

[grizzled sapphire]

interesting idea, unfortunately Eldritch Call exists

[rocky trench]

By placing totems in right positions

[grizzled sapphire]

just play Abso Double Totem and it's gg

EC unironically covers the entire functional arena

[rocky trench]

Hey, i said from abysmal dogshit to a niche

Not meta defining

Meanwhile tcc all challenge mobs are too tanky for poison and god forbid having to solo 40m hp with toxo dps if your randoms die

[pure quartz]

just take 4 big mac builds to NoL and have fun

[rocky trench]

Dubious crystaline in the corner

[shell dawn]

It’s already here

Olympic is everywhere

[final charm]

How does having a big Mac ruin it

[final charm]

https://tenor.com/view/skillissue-skill-issue-gif-22125481

[livid rivet]

whats wrong with big mac

[livid rivet]

i think they’re slowly starting to hate bigmac as much as morph cause its easy to use

[final charm]

It's effective, the damage is actually great for Guardian of all things, and you provide support with glue, EHP increase from major ID, and healing if you manage to nab Altruism

Idk what there is to hate about it, as long as you can solo

[livid rivet]

i think we big mac ruins their gameplay by taking all the roles, dps,tanker,healer

[final charm]

I mean, 100k DPS isn't super amazing, so it's not like we're robbing them of that. If anything we're just making their roles more simple? Easier to land attacks when the boss doesn't move right?

[rocky trench]

The issue is that they dont know how to aggro

They will take tna to a journey accros the map to run away from reso and laby

[livid rivet]

probably a first time bigmac user who doesn’t know he’s invincible

[rocky trench]

And this shit cant physically die with the ehp so they will grief everything for entire battle

Its not like divzer who dies in 3 seconds

[final charm]

I forgot. A great build in the hands of a child is worthless

[rocky trench]

Unless its laby

[final charm]

@rocky trench also, I made a joke about it and said skill issue, but do you actually struggle with dodging watched with shaman? I can teach you the method with/without blood concentration

[rocky trench]

That was a joke

[final charm]

Ok nvm, I asked because a reso player died from watched today and I was genuinely surprised

[slate jacinth]

this is literally just skill issue... dont walk into the falling projectiles

u have 5 trillion ws and u literally pulled the 25% chance of dying there btw

[slate jacinth]

and it provides nothing to do the team, ur actively forsaking any of the support that paladin is MEANT to give

like no way ppl are gonna hate u if ur doing 150k dps with no team utility

[fringe valve]

Hello i have radiance

[pure quartz]

pfinder one is a problem

[brave prism]

also btw at some point it safer going right next to the worm than to try to stay out of the hitzones

[pure quartz]

ok so what would you have done there? also consider that i didnt see the other player until they basically passed me

[livid rivet]

Bigmac specifically gives 25% resistance, 8% damage boost from radiance to everyone, redirects 35% damage taken from team to you, overheal doubles your allies HP from trumpet every 20 seconds. on top of that deals 150k dps.

what do you mean no team utility?

[slate jacinth]

90% of what u listed is useless and 8% damage boost is just actively forsaking emberplate (which is broken)

big mac players actively choose to be a detriment to the team

[final charm]

Least believable bait

• Provoke for easier DPS
• Guardian MId (35% boost to EHP)
• Radiance (if you can coordinate it)
• Trumpet Overhealth
• 25% Defense + 8% Damage

If you genuinely think none of this is team support I don't know what to tell you

[slate jacinth]

but none of those are exclusive tho... ur actively degrading ur benefit by playing big mac

one just playing regular BP pala using emberplate is 100x more useful than big mac (even if they are doing like 30k less dps)

its legit like comparing fortitude to VS 😭

[final charm]

Big Mac allows you to do all of those things simultaneously while having good damage as guardian. I have yet to see ANY guard build able to do those things AND have a DPS higher than 50k

[slate jacinth]

i mean idk if im allowed to share it but there is no way ur not seeing more than 50k on emberplate hpr 😭

[pure quartz]

when it's done right it's good

but like 90% of the people with the build i've seen just go in, dont know how to use it, move around randomly and then die since they spam spells super aggressively and every else is already dead because of shit aggro

[final charm]

What I'm getting from this is that most people have a problem with burger build players, and not the build itself

[pure quartz]

basically yeah

[slate jacinth]

build itself is bad and insanely greedy (big mac players think they are doing insane team support when they arent)

going ET lb/aco/sum/ritu is more helpful to teh team 😭

i would also argue just any dps build is 100x more useful bc with big mac ur not doing much team support nor any damage

[pure quartz]

it's not a bad build, it does enough dps to solo and it's a nice safety net if everyone dies but you kinda need to have everyone build around it to actually take advantage of the build

it's just players with it think they're invincible and spam spells until they're 2 hp and then get slapped in the face by greg and die

(also it's good in NotG)

[slate jacinth]

but if u want to play hp manipulation why not just lock abso (infinite healing, 44% dmg bonus to entire, 400k dps and are tankier)?

[pure quartz]

because you wont have aggro as much

[slate jacinth]

u can guarantee agro in notg with sorrow

if ur glueing in a premade ur not running big mac without emberplate 😭

[pure quartz]

have you heard of a thing called having more than 1 shaman?

[slate jacinth]

no then u lock lb or dps

ever heard of having more than 1 big mac!?

[pure quartz]

average wynncraft player struggling to comprehend the existence of pfinder:

[slate jacinth]

i really do not understand your logic?? You are losing benefits by having multiple palas too

[pure quartz]

having multiple big mac builds is way rarer than shamans

[slate jacinth]

even not gaining vuln/vs ur dmg is so much higher with abso that it outweighs any benefits pala may have (ESPECIALLY in PF where the players builds are gonna be way weaker)

[pure quartz]

when is the last time you pfinder'd notg

[slate jacinth]

like crazy the team gets 8% more dmg (oh wait i just lost 300k dps on my build 🤨 )

[slate jacinth]

today

[pure quartz]

ok so you should know that pfinder is not the smartest

maybe having a guardian guarantee glue to the wall is better than having some shaman sometimes hold aggro

and i can tell you that is better because the worm tends to switch aggro randomly and then go out of the wall because it's juggling someone else

that doesnt happen because PROVOKE exists, i'd rather lose out on a bit of potential dps to make every other player have 100% dps uptime

[slate jacinth]

yea thats exactly the reason i think u should have damage when qing pf (half the time ur teammates will be 50k dps lvl60s) [deadweight teammates are better off dead in notg]

[pure quartz]

you're again proving my point that you're not using pfinder that much

level 60s are not that common, i see them maybe once every 5 raids

and even then it's scaled so much that it's not that bad

[slate jacinth]

my last 4 raids have been 1-3 lvl60s

they are extremely common

[pure quartz]

were you instantly queuing after each raid? where those level 60s would also happen to be instantly queuing?

[slate jacinth]

nah seperate

[pure quartz]

also, scaling, 50k at level 60 is way more than you think it is

[slate jacinth]

im saying 50k post scaling 💀

50k lvl 60 is like 400k dps if they actually had that

[pure quartz]

then you're stupid

[slate jacinth]

i mean ur the one running a build that does the same dmg as a lvl 60 in ur eyes??

[pure quartz]

no it doesnt do the same since i'm running resonance, but i've seen a lot of 105s with decent builds that just dont do as much at a level 60

it's almost like you're forgetting what i said before that guardian may not do that much but it HOLDS THE BOSS TO THE WALL THE ENTIRE TIME and when the boss is in place other players do so much more damage

ever raided with resonance when you do and dont have a guardian? the damage difference is insane

[slate jacinth]

holy cherry picking fallacy

no way the 1 item in the game that requires teammates being hit in an area around it to sustain dps

[pure quartz]

laby, any trickster build, resonance, basically any shaman build (not as important as reso but still good), almost every trapper build (same as laby but less)

[pure quartz]

i meant damage uptime not how much blood i get

it's just more damage when you can hit the boss without it switching aggro randomly

[final charm]

Factually wrong btw

[slate jacinth]

factually correct (emberplate is statistically better)

like im fine with bp pala but it feels like ppl have deluded themselves into playing big mac

[final charm]

Send the build then

[rocky trench]

The big mac hater became realy silent after this dropped

[fringe valve]

the emberplate variant has piss ehp compared to bigmac due to lacking agi...

[slate elk]

u can use veritas for 30% radiance lmao, no need empy for bigmac

[fringe valve]

just eats the powder special

if ur cursing but eh thats ignorable

[graceful ravine]

burger may have “support” but it is definitely anti fun

greg isn’t hard as is

[fringe valve]

Tho if im playing emberplate i might as well consider playing veritas bigmac instead of guard

[final charm]

The cycle is upper scream too, so it's not like you'll accidentally cast it either

[final charm]

It doesn't have "support" it has support. Straight up.

[slate jacinth]

Already said before I don’t have permission to leak build

[slate jacinth]

Agree but where are u seeing Big Mac players offhand veritas

I’ve seen over a dozen of Big Mac and not one has offhanded veritas

[slate jacinth]

“Ehp” playing with and without agi is negligible in F(a) builds [+ its also just big mac players have so much ego thinking they do dmg but are simply outclassed by a depressing stick or just playing hero😭 ]

Def and agi don’t proc same time

W ragebait tho actually made me tilted

[final charm]

Leak build ok bruh 💀

[fringe valve]

Eh agi still plays quite a decent role in gaining said ehp

Also being able to be a portable source of bloodpool happens to be really nice

[rocky trench]

[pseudo tapir]

Everything should be instakill fr fr
Turn every mob into shotgun

[rocky trench]

So true bestie, finally somebody understands me

[broken gorge]

It was probably said here but I think the only actual issue with the worms are just the hitboxes. The damage and point of the worms are perfectly fine, but it is invalidated by not getting hit at all and getting one shot

I have a similar clip where i died when not even in the worm zone. And i haven’t clipped this one but i was playing on eu servers with 80 ping and have died to actual air (the worm projectiles have long despawned)

Ive been also killed post watched this way, it is incredibly frustrating but i can imagine how aids the hitboxes are to fix from a dev standpoint

I think the only solution to this issue is to just make the hitboxes correct to punish people actually making a mistake and not punish people who clearly just did not get hit

Also I think the worm damage difference being higher than watched in a lot of cases is just the difference of true damage being less of a threat than an agi fail on non-true damage with otherwise low ehp factoring out agi since the worms don’t do true damage, and i did also just find someone talking about the desync earlier in the thread and it was agreed upon so thats neat

[pseudo tapir]

That is, including negative health regen ticks