#2.1.2 Feedback

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

austere spoke
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Gonna start off by thanking the IMs and AT for listening to the previous feedback I gave 🙏

Now onto the actual feedback for this update, I will seperate this into different sections, starting off with items, this feedback is only for stuff I have tested.

Warp

  • Warp's hpr nerf being reduced has helped the older builds not break due to other item's hpr being buffed too (aquamarine, contrast, etc)
  • Due to Mega Fern being unaffected during the previous ing nerfs, it finally has a best in slot use now in warp builds, this is pretty awesome
  • Arcanist's mana sustain buffs helped warrp too
  • Overall the way warp was handled was pretty great, huge props to listening to feedback and great work overall IMs! 👏

Slayer

  • Slayer's hpr being reduced has allowed it to be able to work in it's older builds still. This is good, BUT there is one caveat, you need max rolls on everything now 😅 but it's fine since the build works atleast (i've still changed the guide build to an easier to set up version tho)
  • Slayer I believe, is fully balanced now, albeit a little weaker but it's not completely bad to use either, so that's that.

Exploding Buffs

  • Awesome job. Genuinely, this was a genius way to empower both hybrid and melee playstyles again, I've seen a lot of builds like trickster tstack and epoch tierstack which have gone up in power (atleast aoe wise) due to this
  • I also like the last minute change that made exploding scale off the final damage, allowing it to be increased by multipliers like focus and marks, overall pretty awesome change to exploding

HPR Changes

  • I love these, my resu idol build is stronger and it makes a lot of offmeta builds stronger too, this is the kind of way I want balancing to be handled, weaker things get buffed without messing up the existing builds
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Trance

  • Trance is a little janky rn, buggy even
  • I hope once the bugs are fixed, trance can atleast get the best out of riftwalker and riftbender due to it's major ID adding a lot of downtime in building winded

That's mostly all I had to say for Item changes, let's move onto Ability tree feedback

Fallen

  • 10/10 ABSOLUTE BANGER Intoxicating rework. Finally Fallen feels cohesive to play, and doesn't feel extremely janky
  • For those wondering that this reduces the risk from fallen, no. The risk is there still, during the time you are dealing high dps. You cannot heal in corrupt still. This just adds qol to fallen
  • There might be some bugs with exhil and intox, but that can always be fixed
  • This also removes rally reliance from a lot of builds, allowing build variety such as generalist burst and upperscream to make a return, I love this so much
  • I personally wanna thank the person who cooked this, this was awesome.

Battlemonk

  • Battlemonk got a ~20% damage boost (from my rudimentary testing on altersurf)
  • I love the new thunderclap incentivising you to play a more pure battlemonk tree, this is a really smart change
  • The whirlwind strike buff also makes surfing a lot better now, I'm happy my baby is strong again

Summoner

  • Summoner is eating really REALLY good this update, it gets 2 extra abil points, allowing you to take hymn of hate and humming beats (or whatever taht abil is called)
  • Summoner is now my favorite archetype to play on shaman

Arcanist (and sorta lb)

  • Arcan and lb dmg seems to be lower than previously with 10 winded, (not talking about 30 vs 10 winded, talking about 10 vs 10 winded)
  • Arcanist is much comfier with the new mana changes, although without arcane power it feels worse but that's intentional likely
  • The removing 30 winded access from arcanist was a good idea, but I think it's damage is a little weak rn, might be due to lb and arca winded interaction being bugged?
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Acolyte

  • Now this is where I might speak a bit negatively
  • EC damage feels too low without proper bleeding application from blood sorrow
  • I get that it's removed to incentivise people to pick flaming tongue but at this moment, mask of the lunatic is still better, and I think a better approach than removing / weakning the kit of acolyte would be to empower the weaker abilities like tongue and lashing
  • For slower attack speed weapons, acolyte is nigh unplayable as well since your bleeding application is very bad at the moment, and it's unfun to play overall.
  • Tongue usage is not that incentivised to be used in general due to how mana costly it is
  • you can find better feedback in #1371862744139038832

Final Thoughts

  • I love this patch, excluding shaman changes it has been nothing but pure bangers over and over
  • I cannot state how much I appreciate feedback being listened to actively, and being addressed actively. I think this is a good step in making the relations between the community and the content team less strained, and I am hoping for this to get better and not be a one time thing.
  • If I had to rate this update, I'd give it a 9/10, 5/5 from item side of things and 4/5 from ability side of things
little pilot
austere spoke
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lol

trail walrus
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mega fern cannot possibly be best in slot 😭

austere spoke
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it is, it dodged the dmg nerfs and gives hpr too which got buffed

little pilot
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Bmonk buff kinda fire tho ngl

trail walrus
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u need like 1 opal or something just use that

patent sequoia
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mega fern being good isnt healthy

austere spoke
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it's good for one thing, and that's fine

patent sequoia
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it has health bonus as well

covert maple
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Mega fern is js dipping a bit into everything, idt it should be the best at something lo
At least that's how I see it I don't touch crafteds too much

austere spoke
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oh that's a good point....

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still funny tbh lol

patent sequoia
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true it is hillarious

trail walrus
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u only need 2 green opal ingredient spread across ur 3 crafted accessory to fully cancel warp why would mega fern on tailoring be beter what

patent sequoia
covert maple
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I knew aquamarine was gonna be slapped again the warp hpr cancel cycle starts again(at least for non cr)

austere spoke
trail walrus
austere spoke
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lemme just share the two builds to compare rq

long rivet
austere spoke
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https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder?v=18#10_0690pxCR-1CUCUC19F9t9w9i910QjCR-1CTCT6w9i9i9i9m91CR-1CTCT6w9i9i9i9m91CR-1CTCT6w9i9i9i9c910Ji0R10v0n1u-O2P1g00001007lU0z0z0+0+1r0+0-1T2Y2Y2Z2Z2a2alVpyDc+B
previously bis warpcanist with green opals (enough to get 3 hpr tomes and 1 stealing tome)

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder?v=18#10_0690pxCR-1969FCO9g6I6I9i910QjCR-1CTCT9i9i9i9i9m91CR-1CTCT9i9i9i9i9m91CR-1CTCT9i9i9i9i9c910Ji0R10i0h1u-O2P1g00001007lU0z0z0+0+1r0+0-1T2Y2Y2Z2Z2a2alVpyDc+B
new bis warpcanist (more hpr flexibility too)

glossy drum
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i think the craziest part about this post is that now we can actually say "2.1.2" instead of "this patch"

austere spoke
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ikr

covert maple
unborn comet
# austere spoke ikr

Intox endgame is fine due to the available spellspam, (still shafts burst variants by good odds) intox early-mid got fried pls try it out 🙏

austere spoke
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i c i c

unborn comet
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most of the game progress youre playing fallen like burst so it really tanked there, and due to how you need a sustained amount of hits mobs that are fragile but burst on or soon after spawns an annoyance as they deal more than you can heal off fuck cgg key guards

fallen sinew
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yeah intox isnt great rn it witks great on mixed sustain fallen but full bp or anything with low int or high costs still goes negative

austere spoke
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what about rally? can you not use that for bash cut?

fallen sinew
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conceptually pure fallen should not be relying on rally still especially not when its a palq node 💀

austere spoke
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yea

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practically tho it should be fine yeah?

fallen sinew
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ig technically it works but it hurts your danage and qol

unborn comet
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This will be seen more often in newbie fallen notg runs

fallen sinew
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burdt still feels not worth and eotb is basically dead on most builds as the prolonguee window of damage for mix mana almost alwats outperforms (this just means upperscream will still mog p much)

unborn comet
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and most of us are quite benefitting off the he% tomes so thats that

fallen sinew
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bb is suffering the worst cause where other builds can just say fuck it and swap eitb for RoR and mitigate slot of the damagw its kinda stuck with the aweful sustain and forcee pot usage

patent sequoia
patent sequoia
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its not really that crazy the more the meta evolves the more normalized it is to combo 2 builds together

austere spoke
fallen sinew
fallen sinew
fallen sinew
patent sequoia
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the more starved for dps the wynn players become the more open minded theyll get

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every time an op strategy is taken away from us we develop a more overcomplicated one with the same end result!

trail walrus
fallen sinew
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ppl who want dps can go play shade/trickshade both of which have not been nerfed at all for some reason and do well over a million

trail walrus
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even acolyte a support archetype can play alone so surely every archetype is meant to be able to play alone

patent sequoia
fallen sinew
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fallen is a for fun archetype atp which is good

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fallen + lb/aco does less than a soloq shade rn which is quite funny

covert maple
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Bbath Insignia stays winning fr

tribal sphinx
long aspen
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did they ever confirm adding back BS bleed

tribal sphinx
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Surf definitely isn’t “strong again”, it’s still mid and so is bmonk but it’s the right direction and

Intox is great vs bosses now but nerfed heavily vs swarms, they definitely gotta buff the %hp you get per kill, I made a thread abt that

tribal sphinx
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Hopefully they reconsider tho

long aspen
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yeah i saw lex's message

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sad

tribal sphinx
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I think they should only try to push lashing lance after they fix lunatic mask shenanigans

bright spade
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PLEASE (i hate masks)

long aspen
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if they made acolyte not work with masks ill probably drop shaman

tribal sphinx
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But I feel like historically AT hasn’t been great at compensation buffing

bright spade
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i just want masks to have competition in terms of flaming tongue

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also isnt ritu due for like a full rework at some point, just gonna be a while since they have to literally change all of it

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so whatever changes r made are technically only temporary

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plus tbh id say theyve been okay abt compensation buffs lately, fallen just got a huge one

long aspen
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the variety is what makes the game fun

tribal sphinx
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if they want to buff the shit out of flaming tongue so its competitve with masks, they shoulda waited till that change before removing sorrow bleed

bright spade
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yeah absolutely. itd suck to see mask synergy with aco like absolutely nuked, it always sucks to see any option get nuked. would just be awesome to see some kinda buff for flaming tongue where the only tradeoff is raw dmg for bleed application

bright spade
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until then its just gonna feel kinda bad, hopefully not for too long tho

long aspen
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bloodshatter i miss you

toxic coyote
austere spoke
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nah

bright spade
toxic coyote
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The thunderstorm combo tho

tribal sphinx
austere spoke
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non tstorm feels comfier, tstorm is okay, most builds already didnt use tstorm in the meta if they did not have -int (2 builds)

toxic coyote
tribal sphinx
toxic coyote
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Oh wait is it 21 mana without t-storm?

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Per meteor

tribal sphinx
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ya

toxic coyote
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Not bad then

fair tangle
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I actually kinda have an issue with new intox sustain. This isn’t to be be doomer or anything objectively it makes the class playable again but it also introduces this weird 5 second period where you litteraly can’t do anything. If you’re on mixed sustain you can cast some spells as your mana allows but if you’re on burst any spell cast in that 5 seconds or any hit taken is less time you can spend in corrupt and so on. One possible solution I personally like is to nerf intox healing but let it go over 100% hp and instead give you the health over those 5 or 10 seconds based on whether uncontainable is taken

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The one thing rally did well was give you something to do while corrupt was on cooldown and still let you fight back and now it feels kinda helpless in that period

clever moat
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I think fallen could do with some use while corrupted is on cooldown but it would risk making it more complex which I don't think is needed

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Put your feet up and relax and dodge the mobs, kinda the skill part to ensure your next corrupted is optimal

fair tangle
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Yeah idrm like dodging the mobs its just kinda in limbo while off corrupt

desert veldt
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Rally was unironically good cus it made you use all your downtime

clever moat
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Charging into the ground wasn't really "something to do" while corrupted was on cooldown either lmao, riveting gameplay

fair tangle
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Sidenote because i never actually tested but was it ever changed that when both trumpet and corrupt are unlocked the overheal would happen before corrupt

patent sequoia
runic crown
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Pyrokinesis helps melee mage a little bit too as of good things. Although not ideal change, it does help
(Possibly making melee damage scale based on stored mana and then adding a melee boosting ability after chaos explosion would really work nice)

haughty light
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I can't imagine why make Trance like this.
Previous Trance 35 winded damage (lightbender) = 103 winded after update, and previous 60 winded (riftwalker) = 177 winded after update.
Why do I play it anymore after update?
Or just make Trance to be the only winded slave alive, for only who can afford it?

lusty crown
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u need 4 blue hpr tomes for quetz slayer 🙏

toxic coyote
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I think thunderstorm with arcanist was overnerfed you should be able to get more mana from it since it's harder to hit

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Now you only get 24 from thunderstorm without aspects and 21 with arcane power

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Heck even with a level 1 thunderstorm aspect you get 25 mana

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At least the aspect should get it's nerf reverted

clever moat
austere spoke
austere spoke
lusty crown
grave crow
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I think exploding should hit the main target too and just give epoch -1billion% exploding saltroll

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also fallen gets a bigger buff than bmonk while already being stronger, go figure

frosty umbra
grave crow
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bmonk will NOT be fun, they have decided.

frosty umbra
gleaming socket
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Not happy about the meleebound changes tbh

pearl rain
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positivity detected, opinion rejected

trail walrus
tribal sphinx
deep lintel
tribal sphinx
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Yea downtime is boring asf ngl, atleast rally healing filled the gap

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Mainly just want them to add like .2s of bleed back to sorrow and fix intoxicating blood on mob kills then it’ll be good patch

deep lintel
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like it doesnt have to be insanely complicated or anything but like, something that makes that time interesting

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could easily be something that like bloodlust enables

tribal sphinx
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My original suggestion was to give insane lifesteal on spells/melees after corrupted ends, so that way u would still be spamming to get health back during downtime

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But it’s prob too late for them to add that

deep lintel
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i think the gameplay loop of playing well during corrupt giving you that full heal back is fine enough

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i liked the idea someone had of intox giving health back over 5s, but it doesnt quite make the 5s more interesting just lets you use blood pact during that time

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it could be something like fallen gains walk speed for 5s during corrupt cooldown

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or something to do with massacre, maybe that could pre build some corrupted for you while outside of it

tribal sphinx
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That’s a cool idea but idt they’d want to buff fallen like that

soft tree
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The only problem is the cooldown between attacks

deep lintel
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so its not for tstack then is it

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massacre has a 2s cooldown

soft tree
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2s cooldown is quite big

deep lintel
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its to make its effectiveness uniform across attack speeds

soft tree
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It would take a min to fill up Corrupted

fallen sinew
deep lintel
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i mean by the time corrupted would refresh itd only be 8%

analog tree
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i guess imma just throw it in there... this change makes timelock capped at your winded cap rather than 60 (or 180 with trance)

so i guess that's an unintended nerf

image.png
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or maybe it is intended because you're not allowed to do more than 100k dps according to ct

haughty light
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Timelock says you can absorb 60 winded, but only make 35 winded damage? More like bugged

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I have already said this yesterday

faint smelt
analog tree
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and 30 winded did slightly less damage than 60, but 35 did exactly the same damage

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also i did 900k dps with gaia before but now i'm doing only 600k (illegal dps according to ct, no fun allowed)

novel crater
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What build holy shit

haughty light
analog tree
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gaia for buildup and fatal for damage could work, but need to cook more

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because rn i do more damage with full gaia build, but cooking a gaia+fatal build seems very reasonable

haughty light
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you just need 105 str

analog tree
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yeah, but you also get +25 from holding gaia

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fatal+gaia is still possible, but that build needs to either raise spell costs by going below 59 intel

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or use a guild tome

also full gaia allows for putting like 25 points into defense

haughty light
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51 int = 2 snake cost for gaia

analog tree
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for me it's 1+1+3, but then also 59 means i get -1 cost on heal

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and you have to be mindful about your mana since it relies on manastorm

haughty light
analog tree
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a thing that annoys me with manastorm is that if you don't have much buffer mana, just a small miscast can force you into downtime for several seconds

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there's a reason why i carry mana pots and bonder on me

analog tree
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at least before the update that broke timelock dmg

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actually hold on... with good IDs fatal does 10-15% more dmg... lmao

novel crater
static escarp
analog tree
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scroll a bit up

static escarp
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oh

analog tree
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it's bugged though and only does 600k

static escarp
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that damage without lebron plushie aswell?

analog tree
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wait, it works?

static escarp
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the sustain looks massive

clever moat
tribal sphinx
clever moat
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Nothing is really stopping you from continuing to attack and just doing less than the corrupted bonus too 🤷

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It's not lol different classes play differently

tribal sphinx
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u end up losing health from blood pact and then ur next corrupted is worse because of that (if u attack during downtime)

patent sequoia
tribal sphinx
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^^

deep lintel
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clearly that calls for a massacre buff so that you can uncook your corrupt saltroll

clever moat
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Everything has it's own mechanics and I guarantee there's downtime elsewhere. I did already say that it would be nice to fill the gap if we can

deep lintel
wintry panther
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you get like 0.5 sec to do it

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its easy to mess up even the rrr ones

clever moat
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Imo I don't think that most optimal always has to be most fun and I think that's kinda the case here

rustic umbra
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You got 12 hrs on the class bro

clever moat
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It's more optimal to do nothing in the downtime and make your next corrupted better but it's definitely more fun to keep attacking

clever moat
rustic umbra
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Did you test any of it?

clever moat
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Warrior is my least played class yes, I don't claim to be a professional with regard to any class because I'm definitely not

rustic umbra
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Or is it just someone told me so it must be true

covert maple
rustic umbra
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Idk why people whove never made a build for the class start changing things for a class

clever moat
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Yeah I don't think it's worth me getting heated about this lol

rustic umbra
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Im not tryna make you heated i want like an actual answer for why someone who doesnt play the class can decide whats good for the class

clever moat
clever moat
fallow tundra
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are you part of the people who decide tho

clever moat
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People who haven't played fallen for as many hours as you are the ones who literally created the archetype that you love from the ground up though so I don't think the logic holds that well

rustic umbra
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It used to be good but its just constant nerfs to warrior

fallen sinew
rustic umbra
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People who played the class made it good and people who dont play it heard someone say something was too good and nerf it

clever moat
clever moat
clever moat
rustic umbra
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LOL

wintry panther
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tbh i think you guys should stop nerfing builds and start buffing the bad ones

tribal sphinx
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faxx

wintry panther
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theres no reason to make changes every month if youre going to revert them 2 months later

clever moat
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Like I said before @fallen sinew it would be cool to fill the downtime somewhat but Im just cautious about making it required to be constantly doing something that could feel overhwleming

clever moat
# rustic umbra LOL

The only changes to warrior atree this patch were buffs idk what to tell you lmao

patent sequoia
rustic umbra
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Im talking about the past few months of constant nerfs

clever moat
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Item wise I'm not an IM so I have less of a handle on that

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But there have been some notable buffs to many many underused items in most patches across the whole game

patent sequoia
clever moat
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And buffs to underused IDs like exploding, hpr buff and ls getting better (though ls isn't really underused but it's stronger now)

clever moat
rustic umbra
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Omg exploding buff????? WTF I TAKE BACK MY CRITICISM

patent sequoia
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you said you don’t have a handle on it though

fallen sinew
# clever moat Like I said before <@430173597248651276> it would be cool to fill the downtime s...

yeah i can see where youre coming from having a playstyle as involved as corrupted while out of corrupted would make the class mentally taxing and a downtime period is good, something similar to how rally worked conceptually would be cool, a mechanically light part of the gameplay loop that sets you up for your next corruption would be ideal as it still keeps you engaged but also offers that break, maybe something linked to how armor breaker works?

clever moat
tribal sphinx
# rustic umbra Im not talking about just this patch

past few months;

nerfs

reworked bloodlust (ended up doing less damage)
lowered corrupt damage cap (damage nerf)
nerfed fallen weapon base dps (damage nerf)
nerfed fallen aspect (damage and sustain nerf)
nerfed armour breaker (support and damage nerf, CD was a qol nerf)
made rally access significantly harder (huge qol nerf and made certain fallen builds unusable for 2 weeks)
nerfed ingredients (not direct nerf to fallen but fallen lost a significant chunk of damage)

buff/nerf combined

intoxicating blood now heals based on hits (buff vs bosses, nerf vs swarms/anything not tanky)

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there u go mr. w

clever moat
rustic umbra
covert maple
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exploding and ls my beloved

rustic umbra
clever moat
covert maple
clever moat
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Heck the original message of this post sums up a lot of positive things I'm ngl idk if anyone else read it

tribal sphinx
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the exploding rework was cool but its still a mediocre id because it doesnt affect the mobs exploding procs on

slow bear
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Exploding change to make it do something is cool yea but dam

clever moat
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It's not really meant to be a playstyle in it's own right but it's far from just a flavour id now which is great

covert maple
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its good aoe and shits on notg/can be a massive dmg inc for hmlee with setup/is a dps increase with beefy adds so i think its ok
much better than in the past fr

patent sequoia
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notg is a boss of all time

clever moat
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Notg is unfortunate in its segment mechanic

slow bear
clever moat
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It is cool but aoe is like so crazy lmfao

wintry panther
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exploding is a good buff to epoch and the now forced melee on acolyte

covert maple
slow bear
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Idk why but notg is such a snooze for me tho, like the rooms feel so uninteractive in a way compared to other raids like tna n nol

clever moat
covert maple
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Ritu moment

wintry panther
patent sequoia
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notg second room is so terrible… token inputs are unresponsive and the pk section always bugs out 😭

tribal sphinx
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77 upvotes but no ct has responded

clever moat
covert maple
clever moat
wintry panther
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i know you would...

patent sequoia
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the mask abilities are so busted though why would i ever use anything else

tribal sphinx
covert maple
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Ritu rewor in 2026 will cook surely 🥺

tribal sphinx
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Bmonk rework in 2027 gonna go crazyyy

wintry panther
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rift in 2028

slow bear
covert maple
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Unitoncallt I see it coming out like 2 months into 2026 or smth cuz of how masks are for othe archetypes not trying to be mean or anything:(

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Worm walling moment

slow bear
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Still content tho don’t get me wrong but I’d 100% run other raids over notg

patent sequoia
clever moat
tribal sphinx
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Idk who said it’s useless but it’s definitely not as useful as Luna mask

long aspen
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in terms of damage its useless

covert maple
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what does bleed do i dont play aaco

long aspen
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but for normal reliks it helps keep bleed up and combined with EC offers at least some blood gen

long aspen
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the reason it was good on BS is because it just happens automatically in your cycle, adding a bit more sustain

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forcing players to use LL or sanguine requires sacrifices

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not to mention the fact that sanguine is unusable with slower weapons

covert maple
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bleed is like a % of youir dps or smth right

long aspen
covert maple
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30% 🤯
why is the upport dmg 0%

long aspen
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because funny

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and for some reason elemental conversions need to exist