#Toxo poison nerf

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

dense prairie
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Youve got to be kidding me... Barely reaching 100k dps with a full poison build and all perfect rolls really ruined build diversity in the endgame meta! I can understand where youre coming from in the early game but this is just silly. I know poison has free AOE, but thats not as usefull as you might think, other than for mob grinding, which Toxo is already meta for?

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nova ivy
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its okay nulli is saved! it can be meta now

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dense prairie
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Omg

frigid mantle
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it lasted less than 2 weeks lmfaooo

dense prairie
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I mean toxo was usable in notg now but not meta

ember magnet
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I love how there's a Mythic item dedicated entirely to a stat that is confirmed by-design not meant to be good.

frigid mantle
hidden gull
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giving toxo plague will fix it, trust

lapis fox
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endgame poison didnt need to be hit,,,

frigid mantle
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but if were to believe the reason they gave for fixing it idk why the blanket nerf is applying to endgame builds, a hyper optimized poison build doing 80k is still a hyper optimized build, this has nothing to do with the power of earlygame

lapis fox
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heart emoji????

dense prairie
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(Youre gonna be using cytotoxic striders anyway ;-;)

winter snow
celest pelican
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if we thought we could do poison —> 0 we would tell everyone with a godly af toxo to tell us we can or something

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poison is a mechanic that can never be good against bosses in current form without being too good against normal mobs is the moral of the story unfortunately so it’s just an ingredient grinding machine for now

ember magnet
celest pelican
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it will then still suck

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there is no bandaid solution to poison

ember magnet
frigid mantle
ember magnet
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20 minute guaranteed boss kill, but 1dpm to Rotten Zombie

random pumice
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Change poison to do like, percentage damage of your regular dps instead of what it does now

nova ivy
random pumice
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Ex 20% poison means 20% of your damage for a few seconds after hitting something

nova ivy
ember magnet
celest pelican
frigid mantle
celest pelican
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yep this is a safe assessment lol

terse siren
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Bro toxo peaked like 100k dps with like 12k ehp

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why on gods earth did it need to be nerfed?

ember magnet
dull leaf
ember magnet
dull leaf
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idk how adding more poison to Toxo made it more efficient at oneshotting mobs

terse siren
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this change isnt going to make AFK farming harder

ember magnet
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so nerfing it will make it 2 or 3 shot more mobs instead

dull leaf
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the previous change convinced a guildmate to consider running Toxo in NotG for like a couple days and then went back to Abso

terse siren
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honesly, hot take, make Toxo a Fabled Relic and then make a real Earth Mythic Relic

ember magnet
terse siren
ember magnet
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it's... usable...

dull leaf
terse siren
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Don't even dare call it the Earth Mythic

dull leaf
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give me an Earth Mythic with more than Lv 80 stat budget and we're talking

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p sure Hardcore from FF competes in damage with Aftershock

terse siren
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also FF Hardocre is basically the buget Mythic Earth Relik

ember magnet
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they should nerf Depressing Stick

dull leaf
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fair enough

terse siren
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Just make Toxo a fabled and Make a REAL Earth Relik

dull leaf
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if Poison wasn't such a closed ecosystem stat then I'd be fine with Toxo's design but it isn't

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no buffing Poison fwiw, Poison cannot stack either

ember magnet
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poison is poison, it intentionally has zero synergy, and because of that, having so many items fully dedicated to it makes no sense

clever river
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weird logic

dull leaf
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1.19 Hunted weapon and ingredient/xp grind Mythic ig

clever river
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shouldnt poison not having synergy mean it should have more items dedicated to it

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because it cant rely on/help the same generic pool?

turbid granite
dull leaf
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fixed damage with a universal cap of 1 player

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either make it only low flavor stat or change those things and you get an acceptable stat

ember magnet
winter snow
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remove poison from the game already PLEASE i am 100% serious

clever river
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hundreds of poison items?? how many items does this game have wow

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if only wynndata was still up

ember magnet
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poison is kind of fine mechanically, it just needs to be treated like thorns/reflection/exploding and all the other chip damage stats, instead of getting 107 items with over 4k poison, most with little else going for them

ember magnet
clever river
ember magnet
clever river
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what am i doing wrong

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dull leaf
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81 Poison items of Combat Lv Requirement 80 or higher

ember magnet
clever river
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dang thats more than i thought

turbid granite
clever river
ember magnet
clever river
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this is just the base website

ember magnet
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what browser?

turbid granite
clever river
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chrome

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no adblock because im like that

ember magnet
nova ivy
clever river
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its not that bad dw

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even on wiki pages

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official wynncraft website has 16 pages of idk how many per page but it doesnt load for me so its hard to check

ember magnet
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Is Toxo being only viable for mob grinding a bad niche to have?

turbid granite
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Yes.

clever river
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bosses are a large part of the game

lapis fox
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laby poison was too strong....

dull leaf
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if it was a Fabled like Pancake proposed then I wouldn't care

icy tinsel
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that has to be old right?

ember magnet
icy tinsel
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why are some of the previous stats nerfed already 😭

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7320 poison at 92%

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the change:

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same for the boots

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caterpillar too

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nocturne sluice
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@icy tinsel you had it coming

icy tinsel
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ong

nocturne sluice
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Proffers had it too good for too long

icy tinsel
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the one time I make a meme build, and it gets nerfed LMAOOO

icy tinsel
haughty cosmos
proven gull
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No way it was actually nerfed lmfao

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What a joke

icy tinsel
rare otter
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that 6k number has a roll range of 0.3 to 1.3x

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So 100% is 6k x 1.3x and 0% is 6k x 0.3x

icy tinsel
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ohhhh

rare otter
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I forgot what it is but some things are 0.7x to 1.3x range (like lower 1st spell cost) @icy tinsel

icy tinsel
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I thought it was smth like that ye

rare otter
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Might just apply to red stats ?

icy tinsel
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it felt like a 33.33 66.66 100%, but I guess the 66.66% was the base

rare otter
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Yes suhhh

sacred pelican
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i didn't see this in patchnotes

good change, hope they double down and nerf poison even more

proven gull
wary gust
frigid mantle
proven gull
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Most of Nagisa's recent posts have been ragebait

terse siren
sacred pelican
sacred pelican
proven gull
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I mean what sets it apart from the other meme items

sacred pelican
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they are my genuine feelings and them being unpopular does not make them ragebait like

dense prairie
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"I dont like it so nerf it" is either stupid logic or ragebait

ember magnet
dense prairie
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wellp

river horizon
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you dont understand, toxo was too powerful!

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I will be honest though, poison while leveling is actually really good

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it seems good in earlygame and midgame, but it's total ass in endgame

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surely toxo did not need a nerf

proven gull
river horizon
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fr lol

sacred pelican
river horizon
sacred pelican
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I literally said I agree didn't need nerfed but I rather it be nerfed lol.

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I think any low effort method of dealing damage should be unrewarding, maybe play the game instead of hitting the mob once

winter snow
river horizon
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I wish they could make poison more interesting but idk how they would do that

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bc I agree with the fact that poison is just literally clicking rn

sacred pelican
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ramp up, apply it several times to deal increasing damage

proven gull
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We've had extensive discussions on how to make poison as a mechanic more interacive and fun

river horizon
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ic

proven gull
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What Nagisa said

sacred pelican
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like what if they nerf poison by quite a bit, but it can be applied mulitple times (with a cap ofc)

river horizon
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yeah or ids extending poison/decreasing duration for extra damage

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smth that converts the poison stacks on enemies to damage

proven gull
river horizon
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there are definitely ways

nova ivy
winter snow
exotic portal
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nerf ignis I think

terse siren
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We should nerf Abso's damage by 5 again

winter snow
terse siren
winter snow
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to get back on topic though, toxo is so ASS that months ago when i didnt know jack shiett about any mythics so when i got my first mythic i was so EXCITED

it ended up being toxo, and even then i knew.
permanently traumatized 🤩

terse siren
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Yeah, Like I said earlier
TOXO -> Fabled
THEN

  • New REAL Earth Mythic
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Don't make a Melee bs weapon, don't make poeple have to make it into a hybrid like sunstar, just, make it simillar to Grandmother or a Hardcore on Steroids

manic tangle
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But here is a thing
Wynncraft endgame is heavily boss-centric and poison was all but that
If it can't clear bosses then it's just useless

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If it can't clear mobs nearly instantly it's extra useless

ember magnet
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Toxo was still super good for mob grinding before the recent buff, reverting that buff isn't going to suddenly make it infinitely worse

manic tangle
# ember magnet A: Mob farming is still viable for ingredient grinding, stealing grinding, mythi...

Guild xp farming is done mainly in guild raids (look what happened with guild levels after 2.1 dropped)
And ingredient farming maybe it's just toxo because you really don't want to waste slots on anything other than loot bonus and I can't recall many items with loot bonus and poison combined
General xp farming is exactly the same thing, you always want xp bonus instead of poison
Is stealing griding still even a thing? I thought it heavily fell into obscurity after nerfs to it

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There is ABSOLUTELY no point to use poison armor AT ALL

proven gull
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also toxo itself has loot bonus lol

manic tangle
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Yes but it's just toxo

proven gull
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gma too

manic tangle
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Gma doesn't have poison does it

proven gull
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no its just interesting that toxo and gma are the only mythic weapons with lb

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and they're both earth

manic tangle
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Yes but shaman is just innately better to mob farming

proven gull
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yeah

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imo they really should move it to fabled, give it decent base damage and keep it in the niche of being the best for mob farming

manic tangle
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What about entirety of poison armor

proven gull
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ignore

manic tangle
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Doom

proven gull
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leave it as a dead stat alongside ele def

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its fun in earlygame tho

neon maple
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toxo gets nerfed but the entirety of the trapper class gets to live

manic tangle
dull leaf
neon maple
dull leaf
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uh idk

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make an archetype that's good independent of one off weapons/MIDs?

quiet cradle
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"Let's buff poison!"
"Oh no! It's actually usable now! Quick! roll it back!"
I don't get it.

quiet cradle
native warren
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Ah from 3 damge to 5 damage to 10 damage last patch now back down to 7 damage

digital flower
wary gust
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you can grind ing with toxo though

vivid iron
harsh knoll
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toxo grinding is for well…stuff crafted cant kill ig

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For the most part ye crafted weapons work

dense prairie
manic tangle
glacial sedge
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Is afk farming even allowed

manic tangle
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No

static crypt
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I cant believe they nerfed my early game poison build, im not even lv 97 yet! Ahhhhh moment

Seriously though, I was playing with poison for both leveling and other end game content, and while I agree early game poison needed tweaks, end game poison is still garbage before this nerf. The patch notes specifically say this too, so id love to see some clarification why end game poison items got caught in the crossfire. Was this just for stat reduction consistency, or are we just pre-emptive nerfing for a new poison solution very soon?

manic tangle
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Nerfing poison playstyle at all levels by saying it it was too strong in early game is not justifiable

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If I had a dollar every time that happened in wynncraft I would have 2 dollars. That's not a lot but it's weird it happened twice

river horizon
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wdym, toxo is clearly earlygame

celest pelican
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this comment just meant that the error was significantly larger at early game hence why endgame was not as severely renerfed and still kept a smaller buff

static crypt
celest pelican
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Yeah of course. Though the new values are even better tested and seem like large nerfs even at endgame because we want to be conservative (need to make sure to fully avoid overpoweredness against normal powered mobs). So likely not any large huge shifts from here, but even still it’s a large buff at endgame values relative to the beginning

native warren
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Yeah like i said 3 to 5 to 10 back to 7

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Still a long term buff... still weak

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Until multiplayer scaling is retunewd

turbid granite
plain lake
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Like why toxo specifically: it’s an endgame mythic, it had no effect on earlygame

winter snow
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i agree, the changelog says the reasoning is bc of early game items becoming op from poison

BUT TOXO IS ENDGAME 😭 oh well i never use it anyways idc

river horizon
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they said they didn’t want poison to be rewarding but toxo was never rewarding…

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they just made it even more useless than it already is

celest pelican
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Can yall not read

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it says especially not only

winter snow
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english moment

celest pelican
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Such a goated gif

winter snow
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fr

static crypt
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I think it stems more that especially would imply that the end game stuff should be nerfed less, which it did

However, the nerf they received was still fairly high. Toxo for example went 39 to 75 to 50

To lose about two thirds of its buff is pretty significant, and I just didn’t really see anyone endgame making meta defining poison sets lol, besides that snail gaia meme build

celest pelican
static crypt
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Very true, I’ll give it that and I’m happy to take something over nothing lol

celest pelican
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the issue with poison still sucking is that bosses have insane hp relative to most mobs which we have to balance poison around

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so yeah like. In lieu of anything larger this is really as best as we can do. At least it’s awesome for ing grinding

static crypt
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👍

terse siren
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This is why shaman needa a real earth mythic relic!!!

proven gull
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or rework toxo to have base damage with the large poison as a bonus

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the reason toxo has been historically unbalancable is because it relies exclusively on Poison which is very hard to keep in check

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either it does nothing or it does too much

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relying solely on poison also makes the AT practically useless, removing nearly all complex building

sacred pelican
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almost like low effort methods of dealing damage shouldn't be rewarded

proven gull
sacred pelican
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Nah just stop with automated true damage

turbid granite
quiet cradle
sacred pelican
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thats stupid

turbid granite
dense prairie
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If only

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nah but the almost 100k dps with perfect rolls it had last patch was reasonable

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I also dont get the too op to regular mobs argument? Like it doesnt matter if it deals 30k or 100k, 99% of mobs will die in 1 poison tick no matter what. Youve just increased it for the 1% of mobs from like 3 poison ticks to 4

quiet cradle
sacred pelican
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because it is true damage and multiplying it only makes the issue worse

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low effort should not be rewarded

river horizon
sacred pelican
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Like I said, low effort should not be rewarded. Rework it or something, you can have poison as a gimmick that is fine, but true damage is stupid.

worthy sierra
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saying "low effort should not be rewarded" is pretty misleading and i thought as such till i dug in some more but i still think it gives me the sensation that "lazy" people, who put less effort and making the same if not more should be not be getting those rewards in the first place, but do you really think a high-risk high reward setup is as rewarding when you could do a mistake and still die because like a fallen (i'm a new player btw) i don't know as much as the sweaties out there (hardcore players who have been playing this game for years and i'm like 1-3 weeks deep in with a lvl 80 mage) but regardless it's pretty stupid if you die almost at the end of a fight just because the whole setup runs around you getting your health eaten up because you are a knight that uses that same resource that makes you not get turned into a fine tomato paste spread across the ground and also the enemies and the fine line in between is you having two braincells and taking a step back in between heals or like the shaman who uses that same health dealing damge while giving it back to everyone but still dying due to getting stuck in enemies because of this insane knockback some enemies have but i'm derailing

what i do think the game plays itself when you just press a button to attack and a horde of enemies just die because poison spreads among them and you have so much it overkills them on the first tick and it ticks like 3 times but that's beside the point, a rework would be nice with some deeper mechanincs instead of being true damage because when i logged back in seeing my damage went down a good 40-50% just because early game is too easy (it's always gonna be too easy btw regardless how you make the setup) but it is still overkill which is fine for "balance" but a nerf is hardly a balance but having a good idea for such isn't something you just pull out of your ass either and developing is another whole story so i get that-

what i'm getting at is it was pretty much how of a setback i felt seeing my damage went back down after i bought those higher level stuff and i was not gonna lie pretty upset maybe the most infuriated i felt from such a change but it is what it is but seeing people go like "it should be nerfed more" and along those lines pretty much makes go and put up this tantrum

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what furthermore i think about this whole aspect is enemies should be more resistant to poison earth-types are even more specifically because it's tied to strength stuff for some reason, and also make some of the builds not like evolve around it but like... have some unique interaction with it like fire could set enemies on fire and water could freeze them etc, i'm just spitting ideas from the top of my head cause i generally go for DoT builds in the first place (and healer if there's any or support) so i can't kill on my own at least i have DoT to help me kill stuff

river horizon
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having the elements have unique effects is actually a fire idea

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lets you put poison into earth and balance it better

worthy sierra
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actually earth could have an effect called "root" unless one of the classes have that already

turbid granite
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There is the identification Slow Enemy, there are snares on some spells (shaman's heretic haunting memory and archer basaltic trap chilling snare and assassin choke bomb), freezes on others (mage's ability arctic snake/flashfreeze major id), and knockback is incredibly common (notably, shaman's major id ergosphere is continuous while every other source of knockback requires active spamming).

neon maple
dense prairie
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Now were talking

turbid granite
celest pelican
nova ivy
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💀

winter snow
# turbid granite

+Abortion Major id: the horse that never dies in SE actually continually gives birth, you can now kill the horse if you use this MID

random pumice
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😶

dense prairie
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To show how unreasonably high the dps is rn

sacred pelican
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I hope it does even less

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you do one input in the entire video

dense prairie
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Spells dont do anything with 1 base dps

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If i was spell spamming (The build has no mana sustain) I could get like 5k dps more sure

sacred pelican
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my point isn't 'you should do spells for more dps' my point is you're doing damn nothing you shouldn't get rewarded

dense prairie
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Im on housing...

sacred pelican
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That has nothing to do with it, my point is poison requires no engagement for damage, and therefor should do terrible DPS

dense prairie
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Try doing nothing in a raid with this build (15k ehp)

sacred pelican
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It already is garaunteed true damage, you should just take it for what it is

dull leaf
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what if we made Poison not this low effort

dense prairie
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!!!

sacred pelican
dense prairie
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Thatd be crazy

sacred pelican
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But the point of the post (and video) is to show 'toxo bad' to which I'm saying good, I hope it stays terrible

dense prairie
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Ok but then i want a new earth mythic relik

sacred pelican
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🤓

dense prairie
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Demote toxo to fabled

dull leaf
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realistically what is stopping Toxo from keeping the poison id and then giving it acceptable base damage and other relevant stats to make a real Earth mythic

dense prairie
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Itll end up like gaia

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Well its worse than gaia anyway whatever

dull leaf
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I wouldn't be so sure

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Hardcore from FF isn't half bad for a rare Earth Relik

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besides that I'm sure CT wouldn't make Toxo a textbook copy of Gaia

dense prairie
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It would have to be earth spell so its already diffrent in that way yea

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Melee taken by ashock

proven gull
proven gull
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Saying "we should throw poison in the trash because its uninteractive" just misses what we're arguing for entirely and is quite literally a strawman

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I don't understand why you constantly contribute to these conversations with negativity if you don't care about it

dense prairie
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I agree its not interactive or fun right now and that should be improved, but calling it 0 effort is just wrong, again, try to do nothing with 15k ehp build in tna youll die frame 1

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Anyways yea ragebait ig

sacred pelican
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Make a thread called "Make poison more interactive" then if you want to talk about that 🤯

proven gull
sacred pelican
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Telling me "we want it to be interactive" ok cool, the post and video I replied to is about "my dmg bad 😢"

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There is even a thread about making poison better and I'm in there supporting it, so saying I'm always being negative isn't correct

dense prairie
sacred pelican
proven gull
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I've said all I needed to say, I'm done engaging with you on this topic 🙂

dense prairie
dull leaf