Make Resonance major id affect eldritch call

[true matrix]

Eldritch call is super strong rn and lets all the other aco reliks outclass reso. Reso cannot use eldritch call because ec lasts longer than the reso blood sorrow so reso runs out of blood before ec ends. I think since the reso major id shortens sorrow duration it should also shorten ec duration to make up for it.

[coral imp]

this just makes the insane blood shortage issue even worse vro they dont want reso to require shatter

[true matrix]

no because you can shatter right after the shorter ec and cycle ec sorrow

[coral imp]

yeah but they dont wsnt shatter to be forced on aco.

expediting a second ability like that only pushes shatter even harder. when u said this initially i thought you meant it dhould increase EC duratiom icl, coupling that with either a cost reduction to sorrow or a blood gen steroid would help pure aco more without needing shatter

[true matrix]

i do want a shorter ec with reso and if it can cost less so that shatter isnt needed thats even better

reso is just kinda forced to use shatter rn because thats the only way it can sustain the shorter sorrows

[coral imp]

yeah, i mean maybe i didnt explain what i meant well, something like

-30 sorrow cost

• 5 second eldritch call duration (no damage penalty or maybe slower swing speed idrc tbh)

would solve the sustain issue by letting u cast cheaper sorrows but also not need to invest as much in having EC up so its a double eco buff, i dont think aco will ever be able to get acceptable uptime on reso sorrow any other way tbh unless youre buiilding like wierd ass tank builds or are ok with being a oneshot

[true matrix]

most reso builds are etw so they are already one shots

[coral imp]

depends on whata hitting u but if blood eco was fixed on reso youd have overhealtg and be able to take a hit or two, i find on etw im like half hp from shattering so even a sneeze will kill 😭

[true matrix]

i think reso blood sorrows with ec will do like 2m dps which obviously they dont want but i think the main issue is the shift totem errors when you dont have totems up with reso because you are constantly shift uprooting and toteming

i just want to be able to shift totem to cast a totem man

[coral imp]

wait huh

i think atp we might have a very different understanding of resos intended design than ct did when making it given shatter wasnt even a thing at its inception @hexed hinge what was the idea with reso carlos

[hexed hinge]

i wasnt here when reso was made but i was under the impression that it was made as an overhealth battery with sorrowspam

[coral imp]

do yk who made it? would be interesting to figure it out cause it seems like the general playerbase want it to be a glass cannon burst weapon now 😭

would be interesting to know if those expectations are at all compatible or if the weapons identity could change

[hexed hinge]

its a felix mythic

[coral imp]

@chilly parcel when u get a chance would u mind sharing what the initial design philosophy behind reso was, and if its changed at all now/ what sort of changes you think it could or should recieve without compromising its identity?

[tepid cloud]

What's your cycle look like?

[true matrix]

Totem sorrow spam

[tepid cloud]

So full Fanatic?

Also how do you feel about the shatter nerfs

[true matrix]

i stopped playing after eldritch call got added because it made it so annoying to play

[chilly parcel]

resonance is like directly made for blood sorrow usage idk why we'd just make it buff anything significant on the acolyte archetype lol

[tepid cloud]

I'm kinda glad its meant to stick to BS, with EC being pushed as the new main damage dealer for Aco I like how Reso promotes more frequent use of BS

The problem is that Aco cant sustain the blood Reso needs, and buffing the tree to fix the problem would only buff non reso reliks too much

So I do think a change to the mID is needed, but I dont think it needs to relate to EC

[bitter osprey]

now resonance can barely function cuz elderith exists
sorrow with shift uproot, waste all blood with shift totem as well

fanatic totem lunatic sorrow was already a pain in the ass to play, now gotta time shift perfectly

[true matrix]

Shift totem with fanatic spam = anvil noises

[thin shoal]

i dont think it should buff EC, reso is the sorrow weapon... Reso just needs the reduced blood cost on sorrow to actually be able to sustain

reduced cost in the mid and boom weapon is playable

[valid rapids]

suggestion post 🫃

[full python]

post I don't like or agree with? Just type out suggestion post and invalidate it in the big '25!!!

[valid rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/skibi-di-gif-3127588730399978483

[full python]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-mewing-mewing-meme-think-thinking-gif-8986451654826218658

[valid rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/i-saw-what-you-deleted-cat-gif-25407007

[wooden flicker]

Reso is fine

[distant marten]

if reso is gonna be the sorrow weapon it sould go fully into that instead of catering for eldritch

[full python]

reduce sorrow bp cost imo

[coral imp]

yeah real i mean idk i dont think its super unreasonable to ask about it buffing EC, its MID was added before EC even existed and sort of exists to fit a context that doesnt exist for aco anymore, that being said if it is going to be a pure sorrow weapon its going to need a lot to even remotely compete with the strength of EC

[full python]

the perpetual cycle of un co-ordinated wynn balance

cool item is made
AT change happens
item is no longer cool
pls buff item to be cool again
cool change is made / different new cool item is made

the cycle repeat

[coral imp]

kinda the same thing that happens with your guide only changes need to be reviewed by more ppl and theres more on their plate no?

[full python]

well I have no control over that, AT and IMs do 👍

all I can really do is keep updating and make sure to always stay up to date to whatever bs the biweekly updates cook up

[brave stone]

Ive before said “good post, unfortunately it’s a suggestion ” , it’s not said to invalidate

Anything posted asking for new content or a specific change is a suggestion unless they lay out issues with the current system and a proposed way to resolve it

Ex: this quest is unclear, some dialogue would help (fine)
Ex: lootruns are problematic in this one spot because of certain mob (fine)

Not an example: There aren’t enough secret discoveries make more

[coral imp]

the corkus robot is not sexually desirable enough

[brave stone]

nah youre just weird

[fathom plume]

🫃

[full python]

this thread definitely does not follow that trend, that's why I pointed out how that statement is misused so often nowadays

it explains the problem about eldritch call, explains issues with reso and eldritch call then gives an idea on how a problem can be fixed AFTER giving the feedback on the issues with the interaction between ec and bs

just really annoying to see actual feedback being shut down due to "suggestion post" being such a trigger word for mods to shut down threads at times

[true matrix]

Just make it so I don’t have to take EC node

Taking EC node just makes casting totem annoying

[coral imp]

compared to regular aco even jsut doing this would make reso suck no?

[true matrix]

They could also make sorrow cost less so you can cast more sorrows per shatter

[full python]

^^^

it just feels very clunky and unfun to use ec and bsorrow, especially in a weapon that was clearly not designed with any idea about ec existing in the future (awesome coordination at and ims)

[coral imp]

yeah but like compare the power of reso getting to sorrow spam w/ no EC debuff or DOT with like a hadal doing both, its much less team support, much less damage, reso still kinda just sucks compared to normal aco in that situation

[coral imp]

this is true but EC is just such an insane portion of acos power budget its almost unfathomable how much you would need to buff sorrow to make it worth the tradeoff

[full python]

or

you reduce the bsorrow cost to allow ec to work in reso rotations just for the vuln atleast

[coral imp]

i think reducing the ratio on lifestream then decreasing sorrows cost and maybe like quintoupling the blood gained from donation while using lifestream might do well to give it a better feel

5x is a spitball number istg if someone comes at that saying "5x is too much" i will lose my shit

[true matrix]

Reso major id just makes it incompatible with EC and that just pisses me off

[gilded obsidian]

The major id is called “lifestream”, with the only ability even close to that name being blood sorrow, a beam (stream) that gives overhealth (life).

I am all for reworks and adjusting ids for the evolving meta and such, but this seems pretty cut and dry.

If anything, a change that should be looked into is increasing the bleed applied per tick for sorrow on lifestream, due to resonance only having 9 ticks max, making lifestream have any synergy with ec unlikely.

I believe other changes can be and should be added, but regarding ec that is pretty much it.

[lapis sand]

I mean a suggestion that I had that could help would be that Resonances Bleed is also stronger than normal bleed, given that it doesn't apply as much.

[reef rapids]

or just make ec last longer and do less damage to fix the blood shortage issue

[tepid cloud]

Or just change the mID so it decreases sorrow cost

I also like the idea of the Reso user's overhealth going directly into blood bar

[plain surge]

isnt reso the best relik atm?

[reef rapids]

for damage yes but it can feel a bit clunky

[plain surge]

clunky how?

[coral imp]

no its like near the bottom lol

hadal >>>> abso > oly > reso >> all other slop reliks

[plain surge]

i mean im getting equal dmg to laby and fallen hero

[coral imp]

youd get that on hadal with better ability uptime not to mention a party where resos low damage uptime doesnt matter is a party where resos damage isnt the difference maker

thats like saying div trapper does 3million dps because when i play with 3 fallen heros i get my one big burst off at the beginning and then boss is put to phase

[plain surge]

wdym better ability uptime?

i prety much have infinite bloodpool

ever since last changelog

[coral imp]

ok so youre not playing around EC at all?

[plain surge]

i do

[coral imp]

wheres the infinite blood coming from then

[plain surge]

i have constant EC and sorrow uptime

[coral imp]

that is just mathematically impossible but ok

[plain surge]

"Bleeding damage ticks dealt to enemies within Totem radius will now also add +0.4 points to your Blood Pool"
"Fixed Blood Rite not working with multiple totems and multiple players at once"

this just makes me have permanent bloodpool

[coral imp]

this just sounds like youre premading with a bunch of fallens

[plain surge]

no fallens

[coral imp]

i mean atp send a clip

[plain surge]

i can send a vid of my friend

[coral imp]

theres a chance u just know smth i dot but i have played reso extensively and it doesnt even approach full uptime

[plain surge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzroztjytxE

now ofc it works better with fallens and other acolytes

but still functions fine without them

[coral imp]

theres like 5 seconds of gameplay in that entire video 😭

[plain surge]

yeh ik

blame interpunctie for that

[coral imp]

yeah i mean it prolly wasnt meant to be evidence i cant blame u but it also like doesnt rlly show anything other than confirming that fallen + aco is really good, he literaly says it himself in the video w/ the rots + reso thing

[plain surge]

yeh it works good with fallen but ive also used it in NoL and NotG with pfinder

and aslong as they take dmg i get infinite pool

[coral imp]

u have any clips of that?

[plain surge]

no sadly

[coral imp]

il play double totem if i get time today or tomorrow ive always done shatter, i really doubt it outperforms hadal though icl

[plain surge]

never played hadal, got any fun builds for it?

[coral imp]

highest peak i saw your friend hit was 450k which is what i get in boss on abso

[plain surge]

since i always hear ppl say hadal is great but i dont see it played anywhere

[coral imp]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder?v=16#9_10s0u80x70nB0OK0xd0K40OM0Qd0h0j22090t1g100036100036001004fI0z0z0+0+0+0+0-1Tj7-SzmSM0
WynnBuilder build:

Dwindled Knowledge
Wanderlust
Aleph Null
Steamjet Walkers
Diamond Hydro Ring
Azeotrope
Prowess
Diamond Hydro Necklace
Hadal [w6w6w6]

crafted version is much better its just the only crafted versions i have a friedn made and has asked not to share

[plain surge]

fair enough

[coral imp]

you can figure some stuff out with rafflessia + deep ice core though thats fairly common knowledge

and then yeah heres hadal being silly on aco for damage

https://medal.tv/games/minecraft/clips/jTekP5WPaBlfSpgIG?invite=cr-MSxZamQsMjcxNzU1MjA4

[plain surge]

might try it out later

rolled a decent hadal a while ago anyway

[plain surge]

looking back in the video at 1:56 he reached 1.2mil peak with like 700k avg

[coral imp]

that was cause a bunch of armless spawned which multiplied his dps by 2-3 for like a second cause he was hitting all of them 😭

[plain surge]

fair enough

[plain surge]

also dont know how accurate wynntils dmg counter is sadly this vid doesnt how his end dmg

[coral imp]

its seeming like around 300-700 which makes sense considering sorrows cast time is like half of its duration 😭

[coral imp]

its accurate, you can see on the left side of his screen he gets 10.5, i was on dune upperscream and did 17, other 2 didnt do much

[plain surge]

id say if u do have ppl taking alot of dmg, fallen or other acos with u reso might be best but stand alone the others probably better

[coral imp]

yeah i honestly hadnt considered double totem im excited to try it out and see

always gone shatter which plays a bit too volotile

[plain surge]

yeah tried it a bit and didnt enjoy it too much

so just went back to abso and oly

[coral imp]

this has been my. experience w/ reso lol

ive had pases of trying to make it work but it overall just never ends up working

[tepid cloud]

Double totem reso is no

[coral imp]

you tried it once before dono was a thing you dont know either lol

[tepid cloud]

What are you procing dono with

Sorrow?

[tepid cloud]

Can't really rely on blood rite or dono in my experience, it's really inconsistent

[coral imp]

sorrow and sanguione

[coral imp]

cant rely on either of them but double totem's base regen increase should help alot at filling in the gaps, not to mention you get better uptime on dono and rite because unlike shatter your totems actually stay up

cant say until i try

[tepid cloud]

Ig so

Plus you have bigger totem aoe from dt

Might be AP hungry tho

And need to spam melee

[tepid cloud]

You should give PZ aco a try, I think you'd find it rlly fun

[coral imp]

i dont like double totem i would only use it so reso works

[tepid cloud]

Pretty hard with decent damage and you're not completely throwing so there's that

[tepid cloud]

Wdym

Single totem PZ is real I think

[coral imp]

idk why youd use that icl

[tepid cloud]

Have you played PZ?

[coral imp]

no but i know multiple ppl who have adn have spoken to them about it

[tepid cloud]

Completely diff to any other relik

[coral imp]

you go double totem so u have enough blood to use sorrow off cooldown and cycle like 2-3 auras

[tepid cloud]

Also I really don't think DT reso will work due to double EC and Aura costs

But give it a try

Send vid

[coral imp]

i dont think youd be using aura much like why would u

[tepid cloud]

Hp sustain

[coral imp]

why would you be losing hp

[tepid cloud]

Dt drain is scary

Unless you're sorrowing off cooldown

[coral imp]

that is the intent yes

[tepid cloud]

Which I doubt, and even then you will be missing out on EC

[coral imp]

i wonder if recasting EC costs 60 or 30

lke did they remember to double it

[reef rapids]

still 60

[coral imp]

surely not right

[tepid cloud]

Cooldown sorrowing without EC won't get competitive damage anyway

We already see this with Bloodshatter

[coral imp]

did u watch the vid

[tepid cloud]

Where

[coral imp]

scroll up

also 60 blood every 10 seconds is like nothing still, the real issue is when youre aura spamming 15 -> 30 cost is really taxxing

[tepid cloud]

This?

[coral imp]

no

[tepid cloud]

My wifi is dodgy rn, I don't see any other videos

[coral imp]

pluh

[tepid cloud]

I'm like 1 mile off the coast of Alaska rn, give me a break

[coral imp]

literally for what

https://medal.tv/games/minecraft/clips/k52oMYAuUMRY_dAtC?invite=cr-MSxIM2ksMjMyMDQwMDQx

ok yeah its obvious this will work

ignore damage i forgot to luna im wearing shit armor and my reso is fire powdered for reasons

[tepid cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/knuckles-gif-26722749

Looks aight ig

[coral imp]

now that i have the cycle down im getting like 500k on uncrafted build with fucking olive azeotrope vanguard contrast as my accessories 😭

this may be peak

[tepid cloud]

Vacation

[tepid cloud]

Id rather play RW than double totem icl

[coral imp]

no flame but why the fuck does your vacation photo look like youre on your way to an antarctic prison colony in a scifi film

[tepid cloud]

Good thing I don't have a choice

[tepid cloud]

It's gonna start snowing tmr

[coral imp]

yeah im negl i think shatter may have been the biggest psyopp ever

[tepid cloud]

It was never good

Just the only playable option

[coral imp]

this is looking pretty playable

id go as far as to say pretty good actually, still dont think it beats hadal cause holy shit is that broken but it is really good

[tepid cloud]

CT cooked up the most fun gameplay loop I've experienced and made sure it stayed irrelevant

Gotta hand it to 'em

[coral imp]

what are you on about now huh

shatter is really good on regular aco

the EC changes just flipped it lmao, before double totem was meta on regular aco and bad for reso, now its peak on reso and bad on normal aco

[tepid cloud]

Bloodshatter with Lifestream, I should clarify

I don't intend to play dt reso any time soon, when I come back I will procure a Hadal if it hasn't been nerfed by that time

normal bloodshatter sounds eh but I haven't tried it so who knows

[coral imp]

iont think youre playing anything anytime soon icl

https://medal.tv/games/minecraft/clips/k52DnTN0tB3_CwJyo?invite=cr-MSxCdzksMjMyMDQwMDQx anyways yeah matrojan has like around 3million hp i wanna say? this seems pretty insane for a shit build

[tepid cloud]

2 more months hopefully

[coral imp]

@gilded obsidian thoughts?

is reso saved

[tepid cloud]

22 sec seems on par with my run, can you check my vid? internet won't let me watch

[coral imp]

reminder this is still on complete dogshit build lol

[tepid cloud]

I've only seen you play reso on dogshit builds now that I think ab it

[coral imp]

this also isnt taking into account blood rite at all which dtotem gets and shatter doesnt

[tepid cloud]

First your LI galleon run now your Courage Reso

[tepid cloud]

Shatter gets blood rite wym?

[coral imp]

your totem isnt up most of the time so you miss out on rite alot

[coral imp]

reason for this is i always use a cheap version of builds b4 i invest in the real thing to make sure its functional, last few times ive tried reso it doesnt get past that stage lmfao

[tepid cloud]

Just get rich like me

[coral imp]

you are the most unreal human i have ever interacted with LOL

[tepid cloud]

LMAO

[coral imp]

positively diabolical

[fathom plume]

o_o

[tepid cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/the-darth-side-of-the-force-is-a-pathway-to-many-abilities-gif-21623328

[hexed hinge]

i see theres science happening in here...

[thin shoal]

Even Fanta outperforms reso rn

It’s actually disgusting

[coral imp]

instead of doomposting i suggest you watch the video what youre saying is extremely foolish in light of what we found

[thin shoal]

Sstar too

[coral imp]

id prolly say its honeslty like

[thin shoal]

Send video of it being better than it

[coral imp]

hadal > reso > abso > oly atp

reso may be better in some instances depending on if u value overhealth

[thin shoal]

How are u ranking abso so high it’s piss dmg like 250k 😭

[coral imp]

do u play aco?

[thin shoal]

Yea

[coral imp]

have you tried anything besides the build you main

[thin shoal]

I’ve tried nearly every relik

Haven’t done ashock

[coral imp]

and when you tried abso did you notice that a single aura full heals you

or that playing shatter with abso and auraing while its in the floor is an infinite blood hack

[thin shoal]

I mean yea but u do no dmg

[coral imp]

or that if you use tcc fire items it peaks 350k

[thin shoal]

And is 0 ws (unless tri mask supporting)

[coral imp]

u have blood conn tp + 40k ehp + you heal your full healthbar in one aura lol

playing around EC as long as u have decent ehp ws is just minor qol

abso is by far the most consistant relik it just has no ws and slightly lower damage

most broadly usable as its simultaniously a tank a dps a buffer and a healer

can be run in all 4, hadal and reso struggle in groot and nol where alot of attacks oneshot u

its also the only relik that isnt affected by the polarizing nature of fluid healing

[thin shoal]

U don’t need that much he 😭

Sorrow overhealth sustains u quite well on dtotem just look at immo aco + u get 25% he in tomes if ur normal reliks

[coral imp]

i mean you dont need 500k dps either strength is measured in many different qualities, if youre playing aco you arent doing it for pure damage already abso provides by far the strongest augments for the support side while not forgoing much damage

not to mention you actually kinda do cause abso needs to tank hits 😭

[thin shoal]

out of shaman acolyte does provide the highest damage tho so idk whats the point of neglecting it

[coral imp]

probably the part where you can full heal your entire team with one spell

and tank through a raidboss hitting you

[thin shoal]

but then why wouldnt u just play lb and allow ur arca to do over a mil more dps

true support aco doesnt rly serve a purpose in raids

[coral imp]

if ur playing aco for damage why not just play fallen? like this is a silly argument

[thin shoal]

yea i agree just shaman has 0 reason to be played

[coral imp]

i mean the answer is that playing meta gets incredibly boring and video games are supposed to be fun

fallen lb is like the most obnoxiously sleeper shit ever

[gilded obsidian]

This looks interesting, I haven’t played double totem reso in forever, but the thing with double totem and this example is yes it does dmg but I’d need to see it in more examples cause firstly you don’t need to reposition that much at all due to the stage size, 2 youll always be doing about peak dmg(to the build of course) since you are always able to proc ec and sorrow on them, and 3 idol kinda doesnt put up a good fight against reso due to outmaneuvering is kinda easy. maybe a better example would be death metal due to the hecticness of it. I feel like in raid bosses the limited movement(I know ec exists but you’ll be hindering blood gain from teleporting out of totem range, but ig that could be negated if not skill issues) makes it only truly shine in bosses that function like a damage sponge. Then again I haven’t tested double totem ec reso yet so this could be me overdramatizing it but in reality is fine.

I’ve like resonance even during its double totem phase since it was like acolyte on hardmode and felt satisfying to actually pull off, shatter allowed resonance to be both mobile with its sorrow and be more independent with its burst healing, its dmg was typically cut (lunatic did bring its numbers up alot but the consistency of double totem allowed for higher dmg with more mistakes ie not worrying about fanatic and stuff)

I personally like the freedom of shatter and double totem still has the problem of acolyte relying on other abilities still.

[coral imp]

but anyways presupposing youre playing aco for whatever reason, within the context of aco builds abso is so good because it gives you tankiness and insane healing for a negligible damage loss, oly does around 350-450 and has none of the healing and is a near oneshot, hadal is way squishier, reso is way less consistant.

[coral imp]

i was just using idol as an example cause it has most hp as an actual boss, death meta unfortunately just died in a single sorrow so i couldnt measure 😭

the damage is absurd on this tree, you get access to all steroids and a single EC will yield 3 sorrows worth of time before resetting, playing it on a proper ETW build i was doing millions so its definitely not a worry there

i agree shatter is a very fun playstyle i just think its fundementally not ever gonna be good anymore unfortunately since EC locks you in place and punishes shatter too much which kidna sucks :(

shatter on normal aco is actually really strong tho fun fact, you can have near infinite uptime on sorrow EC and emp aura as long as you shatter the end of your EC before recasting then go back to luna

[gilded obsidian]

The power of not 2 second sorrows 🔥

[coral imp]

ikr lmfaoo

whats the actual cast time with max upgrade it feels like its 1 second roughyl

[gilded obsidian]

It’s max ticks is 9 so probably like 3 - 3.5 seconds the wind up time kinda messes with counting it (also I don’t have tier three aco aspect)

[coral imp]

how much of that time is actually dealing damage 💀

ykw hold on were gonna find out

https://medal.tv/games/minecraft/clips/k57dIi9jKDkQrNJuY?invite=cr-MSw3eGUsMjMyMDQwMDQx

[thin shoal]

actually an entire second 💀

[coral imp]

2 second clip looks like the cast time is .5 seconds and the sorrow is 1.5 seconds which adds up w/ the math of a 7 second aura being reduced by 75% roughly (it ate the .25 seconds idk vro)

[thin shoal]

are u running crabs reso

[gilded obsidian]

1.75 is what I’ve seen for tier three

[thin shoal]

abso offhand looks wild

[coral imp]

no lol i just keep it for raids

(it is raids won)

[gilded obsidian]

Showing off your bling I see

[coral imp]

😎

but uh yeah i think reso may genuinely just be a case of percieved/accessible power vs actual power being way off

[thin shoal]

i mean bc not many ppl value the overhealth

[coral imp]

not rlly i meant its only really performing on a tree people dont think to run and it does absurd damage but because you cant sustain it indefinitely it feels way worse than if it was consistantly hitting

stuff like that makes people see an item as way worse than it actually is (myself included)

[thin shoal]

even on that tree its performing subpar tho

the guy from earliers tna video was only hitting bolt numbers with tna buffs

[gilded obsidian]

A lot of the reason I want resonance buffed is if the effort put in is worth it compared to the other options, like the burst nature of resonance is fine but Resonance cannot consistently put in the value if most of the time it’s just waiting after spending like, 130 blood in the span of 2-3 seconds if using double totem. Waiting for just sorrow was already time consuming back them but double totem essentially just doubles it

[coral imp]

https://medal.tv/games/minecraft/clips/k57qCKY9tt1mpIfNl?invite=cr-MSw4dmUsMjMyMDQwMDQx

im going to be getting crafteds for this later too btw this is like a meh build

[thin shoal]

crazy my sstar aco hits the same with curse 🤯

[coral imp]

i still think it could use like a sorrow cost reduction or a duration increase but id think its in a bad spot at all rn

[gilded obsidian]

If I can get dopamine from funny damage while still being good for my team then maybe my soul can heal

[coral imp]

comparing it to the highest base damage relik (which has -heff and barely gives overhealth) on a full glass build isnt the mic drop youd think it is icl

[gilded obsidian]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/285880764493725696/932164958475681802/image0-64.gif

[coral imp]

realest shit

[thin shoal]

reso also is and also is not consistent

[coral imp]

wuh

[thin shoal]

reso dt

• its effectively way lower bc of EC+VS not being active 100% of the time

acolytes entire purpose rn is dmg and buffing but reso just scraps that and throws it out of the window

[coral imp]

i can argue numbes thats fine but this is like categorically false vro

"acos entire purpose rn is dmg and buffing but reso scraps that and throws it out the window" is like top 10 most unhinged things ive seen

and we got a guy trying to argue lb have deep skill expression this morning

like reso OBJECTIVELY gives more overhealth than any other relik by a mile, and provides the same 20% buff and vuln any other aco does

[thin shoal]

nice sorrow uptime ❤️

[tepid cloud]

Relying on dt and shatter is still a problem with aco

[gilded obsidian]

I feel like it has to make more sacrifices on what it wants to give since the larger overall blood drain, like you can do both but you gotta suffer the consequences of spending either 100 or 130 (depending on double or not) if you wanna do both

[gilded obsidian]

Yeah it still loops back to double totem or shatter abuse

[coral imp]

youire aware that quadroupling overhealth and reducing sorrow duration by 3/4 just means it gives it to you instantly right? theres no uptime argument to be had here it just gives it to you way faster which means it can stack much higher

[tepid cloud]

Yeah but you have to play dt

[thin shoal]

yea but dtotem does not sustain ec + sorrow lol

[coral imp]

reso will always have this issue as its mechanic fundementally expidites your expenditures of blood, if aco could sustain it by itself that would mean it could easily sustain full ability spam on normal aco with no thought, at the bare minimum reso should require one external blood gen augment to function

[thin shoal]

ur draining + forced to build it earlier which is giga slow on dtotem

[coral imp]

you literally just watched me do it idk what else to say

[thin shoal]

ur vid literally showed urself not being able to sustain it 😭

u started at 150blood and ended at 69 (just enough to refresh ec but wouldnt be able to cast another sorrow for another 3s)

[coral imp]

ok and? this is with a single target for blood dono and no rite proc, thats like saying pala doesnt sustain because on dummy it slowly runs out when ur not getting any manachism procs 🤨

[thin shoal]

rite isnt consistent and nor is dono

most content ur not getting hit + not multitarget

[coral imp]

curious to know what "most content" is to you where there are no other acos, fallen, or boss minions to give it the tiny push it needs cause im having trouvble coming up with any

[thin shoal]

tna tcc

[coral imp]

right my bad 🤦 definitely no fallen there

[thin shoal]

boss minions all get 1 shot so they dont rly provide u much

if going down the duo rabbithole then it just goes back to why would u not just play lb atp lol

[coral imp]

definitely no fallen

[thin shoal]

monk ritu rw must be fake

[gilded obsidian]

That riftwalker usage is so scuffed like 90% of arcanist and lightbender rely on rift to do anything significant

[coral imp]

stepping a way for a sec i think its wild were at the point you will see something doing 650k pseudo sustained and say its weak

[tepid cloud]

Reso needs a mID change

[coral imp]

it really doesnt tho it just needs mikor xhanges once aco has settled

[thin shoal]

i mean its avg as a whole, but for how much qol u lose its def weak

[gilded obsidian]

We are slowly going back to 2.0 etw values standards

[tepid cloud]

I mean changes to the mID, not a completely new mID

[gilded obsidian]

When will Greg just give up and let trickobats back

[tepid cloud]

Mb

[coral imp]

hopefully never lol, hopefully everything on the ultra high end gets nerfed and we can actually fight bosses again

[thin shoal]

i mean yea once every other class gets nerfed it will be considered good

but as it stands currently 😬

[coral imp]

650k is not average vro dune hero peaks 700 at the end of its burst on dummy you are literally so delusional atp what 😭

[gilded obsidian]

I don’t even think trickobats could even work if they were back like most bosses now got anti air stuff that’d just kill em immediately

[coral imp]

no lol cbomb was oppressively op when it was meta and mo bosses have changed since then

[gilded obsidian]

Imma be real I forgot cherrybombs had that phase ngl

They never stay good for long

[coral imp]

thankfully.... got rid of the kiddies looping cbombs in my pfinder runs killing boss frame 1.... until trickshade became a thing like 2 weeks later hey anyone else super excited for trickster rework 😶‍🌫️

[tepid cloud]

@coral imp I do wanna see you run TNA with dt reso so get on that

[coral imp]

i have exqms this week one tmrw i just hopped on to test

[tepid cloud]

I'm predicting the qol to be lower than bloodshatter

[coral imp]

il do it when im free yeah i intend to play it alot

[tepid cloud]

Alr

[coral imp]

imma be real i windy scroll + rune of accel the fuck outta that

[tepid cloud]

I'm certainly not going anywhere

[tepid cloud]

I mean qol as in how comfy it is to play

As in, how much do you rely on bd and br

[coral imp]

ive accepted aco is low qol atp

[gilded obsidian]

This is a given ngl, like relying on blood rite and other external factors it will automatically be worse than the option that doesn’t do that (rn it can’t but in the past yeah)

[tepid cloud]

bloodshatter ain't that bad, it's consistent

[gilded obsidian]

Qol wise

[tepid cloud]

Yeah dummy dps is one thing, viability and fun in endgame content is another

[coral imp]

low ehp + blowing up your healthbar + mask switching + low ws sucks

[tepid cloud]

Better than relying on mobs for blood lmao

[gilded obsidian]

Ok the mask switching is difficult but like makes the style much more engaging

[thin shoal]

yea aco is just very low qol

[gilded obsidian]

It’s meant to be sacrifices for power

[coral imp]

woukd be true if u didnt lose ec

[tepid cloud]

Low ws is fine if you're good with tremor and BC

[tepid cloud]

I don't lose EC

I use it frequently in raids

[gilded obsidian]

You just can’t spam it like you did with pre shatter nerf sorrow

[coral imp]

its not tho cause time spent not looking at boss is time spent not doing damage, ws is better cause u keep damagw uptime

[tepid cloud]

You don't need to look at enemies on aco lol

I stare at blood bar and hp the entire time

[coral imp]

your main source of danage is literally a hitscan raycast you cannot be fring me rn veo

[tepid cloud]

Could play with blindness if I wanted

[gilded obsidian]

Sorrow and ec… aren’t they just aim assist 100

[tepid cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/fact-check-kellanrockssoccer-gif-2569170256995872124

[gilded obsidian]

I mean ec is auto but sorrow does bend to the nearest target

[gilded obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/everyone-gif-6164378316457587654

[tepid cloud]

Look at enemy (optional) to deal damage

[coral imp]

it doesnt bend when youre 180d tremoring away

[tepid cloud]

What's your sens

And dpi

[coral imp]

this looks like the setup to an argument so dumb imma kms icl

[tepid cloud]

You know me well

[coral imp]

if it has anything to do with "just look back and forth" i dont wanna hear it lowk we are not playing val wirld championship this is wynncraft

[tepid cloud]

Vro doesn't use his mouse 💔 🥀

[gilded obsidian]

Touch screen meta Wynn

[tepid cloud]

I'm being fr I could play it half blind

[coral imp]

i dont wanna b toxic but from the gameplay i have witnessed both eyes intact is enough of a struggle 💔💔💔

all i can say is tna first watched phase

[tepid cloud]

LOL

I've mastered tna watched dw

Too little too late ig

[coral imp]

https://tenor.com/view/really-oh-now-stare-glare-side-eye-gif-17069038

[gilded obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/team-fortress-2-demoman-demo-eye-brows-flirting-gif-12680661599983674583

[coral imp]

man what the fuck

[coral imp]

yeah so after playing double totem reso for myself a few games i can confidently say it is at bare minimum meta relevant, it easily kept up in a full stack of people playing builds that hit 300-500k, always did more than 1/4th and wasnt overly obnoxious to deal with any of the features, it didnt perfectly sustain and it didnt peak nearly as high as dune upperscream would but thats to be expected and overall id say it is a high tier pick id put next to pbomb or fatal arca tbh

proof of actual games unedited and in a premade of high level players

[thin shoal]

if its not competing with meta then its not meta relevant

is by ur definition epoch tstack or pbomb also meta relevant then

[fathom plume]

i dont think meta relevant must mean it's doing like top damage

as long as it's competitive in what it provides i think that is telling of a relevant class in the meta

if reso aco, a support oriented class, is also sustaining quite good damage when compared to other high level builds, i think that is telling that the weapon is more relevant than other weapons

just because it's not hitting uber mega fallen/trickshade DPS doesn't mean it can't be competitive as an option in the meta

[thin shoal]

but u can legit run anything and hit those 300-500k numbers its not the weapon shining or anything

[fathom plume]

"anything" is overselling for sure

on top of that that damage is alongside providing extremely good support

[thin shoal]

ok yea its overselling a bit but if u pick any of the decent reliks like oly hadal sstar u will

[fathom plume]

yes, so you're proving my point. the fact that reso can compete with the better reliks means that it is relevant in the meta

if not for the entire class meta as a whole then at least for aco

[thin shoal]

how does that make any sense when none of the reliks are even in the meta to begin with

[fathom plume]

if not for the entire class meta as a whole then at least for aco

[thin shoal]

its fine for aco but as a whole shaman/acolyte is shit

[fathom plume]

this is news to me i must say

i heavily disagree with the idea that aco is shit. i definitely think it's one of the better classes

great damage, healing, and support. it provides a lot more than most classes in each category and it does them all simultaenously

[thin shoal]

every class has an archetype that beats it

[fathom plume]

debatable

does archer? aco hits similar damage to its best builds on top of having great support

[thin shoal]

yea laby

[fathom plume]

does it outweight the support and healing aco gives? i highly doubt it

[thin shoal]

id say so bc its 100x less effort

[fathom plume]

effort does not correlate to effectiveness at all

it's just ease of use. if we're talking effectiveness we need to assume these classes are being used at high level play

[thin shoal]

also have to consider that laby is a defensive weapon and is still hitting comparable numbers to ETW

[fathom plume]

so youre saying the EHP laby has outweights the support that aco has?

[thin shoal]

yea and dmg

[fathom plume]

that doesnt really add up to me. especially when EHP is avoidable on aco given its good movement via blood connection

[thin shoal]

aco needs to sack all its ehp/qol to have even playable dps and even then ur only hitting the same as some person afking on 40k ehp laby 😬

[fathom plume]

ur hitting the same as laby but also providing insane healing and debuffing/buffing support

[thin shoal]

aco is def better than sum/ritu but thats bc they are giga weak

[fathom plume]

i think your perspective on the meta in this game is absurdly skewed if these are your takes

[thin shoal]

what playing fallen and trickshade does to a man

[fathom plume]

how can you not value 44% multiplicative damage on top of similar damage to the weapon youre saying is better than Aco just because it has more EHP??

[thin shoal]

most of the time ur teammates dont do dmg so ur own dmg is more important

[fathom plume]

so this is in the context of pfinder now?

[rare bronze]

that is a take of all time?

[thin shoal]

rather solo the boss in 20s than pray my teammates do dmg with my buffing

[fathom plume]

ok thats why you dont value it, you're completely disregarding the fact that other people have builds that do anything

yes naturally if you put a buffign class in the worst possible scenario, the buffs arent going to be very valuable

but then on the other side of the spectrum, if you put a buffing class in a team that also does good damage, that damage is then going to skyrocket as a result

[thin shoal]

most lukewarm take ever

[thin shoal]

yea but even then its buffing is subpar

winded + fort exist

[fathom plume]

winded is exclusive to other mage archetypes and should not be compared to team-wide buffs

fortitude is competitive but that's also because the class itself is largely ineffective in damage otherwise

[thin shoal]

but by the logic of premades u would be optimizing ur team comp

[fathom plume]

aco out-damages lightbender extremely easily

[fathom plume]

if you're assuming that there's a lightbender and 3 arcanists then yes winded is the best debuff in the game, but given how not even team is going to run that i find it is disingenuous to compare it to fortitude or aco's support

[tepid cloud]

Lowk spitting w this but most your other takes I disagree

I do think that aco has tons of downsides but it does also have some good upsides

[fathom plume]

aco's downsides allow it to be stronger in a lot of areas, and those downsides are quite easy to play around as long as you know what you're doing

the low HP stuff can be remedied quite easily by Sac Shrine's good healing. Even better on Hadal and kinda Reso given fluid healing exists

[tepid cloud]

I still think FH needs a rework

[fathom plume]

fh?

[tepid cloud]

Fluid Healing

[fathom plume]

yeah that's fair. it's pretty stupid

if it were just a node that scaled your healing based off of some other mechanic i think that would be cool. the field should be levelled

[tepid cloud]

I think it should be weaker but scale off all elemental damage bonus

Or ideally something other than damage bonus

[fathom plume]

there's a lot of ways to go about it

[tepid cloud]

Yeah

[thin shoal]

should scale with missing hp!!

[tepid cloud]

lowk fire

[thin shoal]

like wow i get fallen dps but at what cost 🤯 10k ehp 0ws and 0he

fallen can just slobber on keyboard 40k ehp 200ws rally on a stick

same buffing to team that aco gives also bc ssac+ab

[fathom plume]

tbf this is beign changed soon. AB is insanely stupid

fallen has 0 reason to be debuffing on similar levels to classes that sacrifice a lot of power in order to gain these debuffs

[tepid cloud]

Also I'll admit dt reso looks pretty decent (I didn't watch all the videos bc doggy internet) but it does seem less fun to me and relies on many outside factors to be viable. Obviously I won't be able to give it a try myself so I'm prolly a bit out of touch but I still stand by the fact that reso should get attention from IMs and some sort of buff

[tepid cloud]

Don't forget you have to play dt

How much str

[thin shoal]

113

[tepid cloud]

Offhand tremor it makes shaman playable

Open ur 3rd eye to the intricacies of BC movement

[thin shoal]

yea bc tremor is rly nice

[tepid cloud]

Also you should offhand Toxo

[thin shoal]

1 green ashock 1 green toxo 1 green sstar offhand 🔥

if u want real dmg go festering fanta

[tepid cloud]

Prepping for Fruma making dual wielding real

[daring prairie]

Bottom tier take it’s insane

[thin shoal]

ok i take back what i say about acolyte being awful 😄 def lacks a lot of the qol fallen has but dmg still feels solid if u build it

once fallen ab/ssacgets removed it will serve its purpose well

[fathom plume]

there you go

[thin shoal]

when is my ritu getting fixd tho 😠

also trickshade needs to get gutted feels like no point playing aco when i could just shred boss in 20s

[fathom plume]

indeed

[coral imp]

yeah so ive come to the conclusion you may be a bit stupid actually

oh nvm it remedied itself insane

a billion more followers to the church of acolyte

[gilded obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/bop-bop-bop-shoebody-bop-squad-summon-dark-magic-gif-13983602502478731881

[hollow gyro]

This is similar to my experience (not dtotem, shatter but making use of EC too). Underrated option in TNA imo since bsorrow one shots the mobs you need to kill in rooms & blood conn + EC gives you a ton of mobility (eg you can solo plat, all of light, bulb, run tree, etc.). In boss, like you said, you can still do great damage & TNA hides the downsides of having to recharge your burst anyway (assuming fast party).

Not to mention, you can run a non-hyperglass build & still do good(ish) damage, heal, etc. because your burst is so condensed and only minibosses/bosses have the health to outlast it.

Imo it wasn’t broken enough that it deserved two nerfs but not sure it also needs significant buffs rn.

[coral imp]

ok im glad im not crazy 😭 battery fucking threw us the first game and didnt have his atree and it picked up the slack well, i think the duration is honestly pretty damn good and like u said it can just kill most stuff outright (in a team setting this includes like chirop too)

was surprised by how well i could take hits w/ the overhealth and yeah its hitting really good damage

i dont think it deserved the nerfs either and yeah its honestly more than fine rn its just a bit below the top options, I think it culd use maybe some QOL changes though like a bit more intrinsic blood gen

also EC needs to give you an extra like 3-5 seconds of mage tp after it ends the immediate switch between tp and haul is so jarring

[hollow gyro]

Yeah that and EC needs like an indicator that it’s ending or something

If I’m in tree and my totem is outside or something I’m just guessing when it’s ending sometimes

[coral imp]

i was just gonna wait for bloatils to add it but lowk its a big enough thing a native indicator could prolly be justified

[hollow gyro]

Yeah, I feel like it would be a bit tough cuz they would need to accurately match the tentacle custom models to your totem location (which already is questionable cuz they don’t recognize your class properly in some instances I think). If it goes out of render distance cuz when ur TPing they will likely generate false positives

I don’t understand why we can’t get a chat message similar to hummingbirds though 🤷 Seemed like the simplest solution to me

[coral imp]

thats what im saying yeah thats like really all i need, a buff timer would be amazing though

like just making EC a buff on your hud would give u a timer 100% accurate

[hollow gyro]

Yeah that works too

[tepid cloud]

Unfortunately that's a wynn issue

My custom totem timer info box works pretty well but yeah once you go out of range it's gone and you just need to guess

[fringe ridge]

no way we're back to double totem reso

[true matrix]

ec is too good

[lapis sand]

EC went from being Ass to gas