#TCC 3rd Room Feedback

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limpid gorge
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Autosmord Essay omg

TCC's 3rd room was a really controversial topic back when a lot of the Astal + Flame changes were made. While the room itself is super unique and has some of, in my opinion, the best mini bosses this game has to offer, it also falls flat in a lots of ways that makes the room a lot less satisfying to play depending on what you do. I wanted to give my feedback on each of the individual challenges alongside defending Astal in order to give an overall review of how I feel about this room and where it can be improved.

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Primeval Machine

This boss is really fun to fight except for one small, frustrating detail. The attacks themselves are very well telegraphed and it attacks frequently enough to where you are always moving. I find that all of the attacks are well made, maybe the rock throw can be a little ridiculous sometimes but whatever. The main gripe I have with this boss is the small platform you have to fight him on. It comes with many flaws that either allow you to cheese the boss entirely or just end up being a massive pain in the ass.

To start, the Parkour challenge is directly above where you fight the boss. This means that any class with range can just go up onto the platforms on the parkour and just sit there shooting the boss until it dies, and it has next to 0 way of fighting back. It can throw the rock occasionally but it's pathetically easy to dodge given its lengthy telegraph and how far away you are from it. I'm not exactly sure about how this can be fixed but it is definitely a very prevalent cheese to the boss that I think is kinda weird to have there.

Next, the platform you actually fight the boss on is too small. While you do have a fair amount of room to dodge its attacks normally, it's incredibly easy to just walk off the platform and get sent all the way back to the start of the room. It's very frustrating and feels needlessly small. The pillar from the TCC Statue also really gets in the way of the fight, I feel like it doesn't have to.

Overall Primeval Machine is an amazing mini boss, just the area you fight it in either allows for massive amounts of cheese or is just too small to feel good to fight him in unless you just face tank the attacks. If possible, I would recommend making the arena into more of a cage, so that you can't fall off the arena and also can't cheese the boss from the Parkour section above.

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Agate Axon

This boss is equally as amazing as Primeval. Great telegraphed attacks, very fun to dodge, super unique AI, amazing overall. I do have a few nitpicks about it though.

First off, and I made a post about this before, but the first platform that you initially float onto with Axon just serves zero purpose. He sits there and lets you beat the crap out of him for no reason. I remember there being discussion about this platform being made into its own phase 1 of the fight, which would be really neat. I won't go into it too much since I've discussed this in a previous post.

Next, Axon's AI that makes him follow you will also occur if you fall off the 2nd section you fight him. This means that Axon can just completely fuck off if your movement is bad enough to where you move really far away from his initial 2nd phase fighting arena. I've seen a case where Axon started attacking the person defending Astal because the person didn't know what they were doing and just left Axon after fighting him. I would suggest limiting this following AI to only be doable if Axon is following the person to the 2nd phase arena, else it just gets really weird in some niche cases where the person fighting axon runs away.

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Parkour & Boulder Hallway

The two Flame challenges were the more controversial part of TCC's 3rd room changes. While I do understand the reason why these flames were put in place, I overall find that they are way too excessive in how much they limit your character and build.

Despite what I just said about the Flame challenges, however, I find the boulder hallway to be quite fun. The tight timing it takes to weave between the boulders takes a lot of skill to do quickly and it ends up being a fun challenge. On the other hand, the Parkour is incredibly lame as it fully removes both your ability tree and spells. You're just doing vanilla parkour with a couple of bigger jump platforms scattered here and there. It's incredibly lame and feels very out of place when it comes to a raid, where rooms are otherwise extremely mechanically interesting and do something very far-off from Vanilla Minecraft.

I would very highly recommend making the flames only take away your ability to cast spells instead of stripping you of your entire ability tree. Removing any choices the player has made to make their build will never be a good idea in any context of a raid, unless the thing you’re doing is extremely mechanically interesting and warrants both your spells and ability tree to be taken away. Vanilla Parkour is not mechanically interesting to any degree, however, so giving the player at least a small amount of agency I think is deserved.

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On the topic of the Flame Parkour, I must say it isnt great overall. Parkour is fun here and there, but this room’s parkour is long and doesn’t really end up doing anything even remotely interesting or fun. I think it would be really cool if the platforms the player was jumping on had something actually happening on them. Maybe some rocks could be tumbling down onto the platforms and they’d knock you off if they landed on you. Additionally, I find the parkour drags on for far too long. It is very often the last Seal that people will do, depending on the DPS on Axon, and given its length and lack of anything interesting happening it’s always a slog to do. Parkour can be fun on it’s own but I feel like Wynncraft could always do something unique with its parkour sections instead of them just being fully Vanilla.

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Astal Defence

Astal is the real stinker of this room.

The biggest issue with defending Astal is that you are otherwise forfeiting actually playing the room. Defending Astal offers next to zero engaging gameplay, as all you do is sit entirely still and shift as some rocks slowly float towards Astal. To be completely honest, this is absolutely horrible design. Nothing about this is fun and like 10% of the time, pfinder runs can fail simply due to nobody caring enough to do the extremely mundane task that is defending Astal.

Once again you are stripped of any spells or abilities as you shoot your little laser at the rocks. I’ve already explained why this sucks. Overall, I think defending Astal needs a really big overhaul because its current state is just so insanely boring.

What if the room took notes from the Escort room? Stone Golems could slowly approach Astal and, instead of a single player essentially giving up having all fun in the room, there were mobs that would try to attack or distract Astal from channeling his spell (or whatever he’s doing)? This would make defending Astal an actually engaging activity instead of a necessity that is infinitely less fun than doing literally anything else in the room. I am also happy to discuss other possible changes as I find that Astal’s defending is by far the worst aspect in TCC as a raid. I would very much hope that some changes will come to this in the future.

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Overall

Generally I find this room has many high highs coupled by a few low lows. Both of the bosses, as I mentioned previously, are extremely well designed aside from some very minor flaws. The Flame challenges can be good, but only the Boulder Hallway really ends up being any fun as the Parkour is simply way too uninteresting to warrant also stripping away the player’s spells and abilities entirely. Astal is just insanely boring and is only really something people do if nobody else will just so the raid doesn’t fail, and is probably the worst thing about this room. If I would put any emphasis on any of the changes I recommended it would be the Astal one as it is simply too unfun for me to really say that I’m content with it staying.

I’ve felt this way for a while but wanted to let the dust settle because the previous TCC posts about this room were like 75% people just being really angry about certain things, and while I agreed with a lot of their statements it just felt like a bad time to talk about it :p

Daily autosmord essay complete

true jay
blazing pollen
limpid gorge
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true !

blazing pollen
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the parkour is SO ass with flame ik others hae mentioned justt reusing the quest parkor from the intro questt which is ad ecent idea (but that thing is prob made up of spaghetti code)

south magnet
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i think the room should be a challenge where raiders are not allowed to complain about raids for 2 minutes

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make tcc undoable

blazing pollen
# limpid gorge ** ** __Agate Axon__ This boss is equally as amazing as Primeval. Great telegra...

also should make the lastt axon u fight nott able to fall off the grassy area/ledge at all, it falling off sinks sO much time on my shittty hmlee shade with not enouhg mobility to get back up after i kill it when jumping down
addititonallly make it not required to kill an axon again if someone alr killed it, annoying in pfinder parties where people ned help on the last axon/die to it and u have to refigt your way back to where they died

limpid gorge
south magnet
limpid gorge
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that guy is a big stinky liar i hate to break it to you

south magnet
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what is this person’s in-game name

limpid gorge
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if i tell you he might get angry

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i can tell you that aint me or my alt tho

south magnet
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i will find out….

wise pulsar
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Another peak autosmord essay 🗣️

limpid gorge
wise pulsar
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Also why are there random holes in the machine arena 😢

blazing pollen
limpid gorge
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omg fizi my favourite person ever

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i beat the crap outta him in brawlhalla

south magnet
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no way…. fizi is too busy finding a 17 year old with wealthy parents to be a raider

true jay
limpid gorge
south magnet
true jay
south magnet
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i’m going to kill yourself

true jay
blazing pollen
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my brother has like 1k hours on it and got beat up by two girls with like 5k hours each lo

limpid gorge
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what the hell 💀

finite zinc
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Defending... Somehow I always end up being the idiot that has to do it. Its so easy braindead to defend, but also requires constant attention, so you cant do anything else in the meantime like chat or smth like you can in tna 1st room

plush raft
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I just realised why it's called agate axon. Well the agate part

strong robin
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i’m dislike bombing this post

south magnet
dusk harness
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Honestly I think it would be cool if Astal was a rewarding instead of punishing mechanic. Like instead of a defend like other challenge split rooms astal instead is a power the player can direct to help other people's challenges. Astal could launch meteors to help damage bosses or destroy boulders rolling towards the player or light up flames that launch up the player in parkour(or create platforms or smth). Makes astal more engaging, makes astal player actaully engage with the rest of the room, encourages teamwork and gives more skill expression.

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Would also feel really cool for both the astal player who feels like a big driving force of the team as well as for the players to do these challenges with this godlike(as in assisting like a God not the power of a god) assistance

limpid gorge
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that's a fun idea

dusk harness
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Oh you could fit the rolling boulders in parkour idea into this. Have the boulders roll as a hazard in parkour area but have astal person able to destroy them. Makes more sense than a diff interaction for the two flame minigames

paper trail
modest berry
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Good essay but

Vanilla Parkour is not mechanically interesting to any degree
This slander will not be acceptable >: (

limpid gorge
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in fact i’d say there is a negative impact on the mechanics because it literally completely strips you of your ability tree and spells

exotic oar
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Guild raid also doesn't have a checkpoint ☺️

marsh dirge
modest berry
finite zinc
minor ether
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thanks for the read! some great points here. id love to replace the vanilla parkour with something better but we don't really have the builder time (they're all busy with fruma). id also like to put the primeval machine in a cave or something but, again, no builders.

which abilities would you like to see remain in the boulder/parkour area?

chilly dagger
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Cave instead of invisible barriers would be a nice upgrade. I hate being yeeted off the platform by the swing attack dead

grim parcel
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bring back the dwarven grapple hook in the parkour

hazy verge
true jay
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Void Matter room is just a better version of Astal defense.

limpid gorge
blazing pollen
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what ifthe parkour was just ov parkour 🥺

hybrid sorrel
limpid gorge
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BLIZZARD BLASTER 🤯

hybrid sorrel
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Nah the floaty one for when ping makes me bonk my head after the last jump pad

cursive rose
formal hazel
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I like third room

limpid gorge
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me too

formal hazel
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I mean it’s really not that slow either ideal runs can get it down to like 30 seconds

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I got 28.9 in a p finder a few days ago

limpid gorge
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yeah it can be done really fast

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i'm not saying it's an objectively bad room i'm just giving my review of what i think is both good and bad

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there are flaws in this room that just bother me and i think they're worth talking about

formal hazel
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Very constructive

hazy verge
paper trail
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but they exist for ppl bad for pk so 🤷

true jay
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what cheese spots?

paper trail
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long and short pk vm can be yoinked without doing pk

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any attack that can pierce through walls can do it

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(mage melee, icesnake, shaman melee, airshout etc)

true jay
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oh, that's really goofy

paper trail
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so technically if you wanna do speedrun glitchless vm:

2/3 warriors (with airshout and dunestorm hero preferrably) is all you need:

1 goes long pk and yoink vm
1 goes to red boss and kill + yoink short pk vm from red
1 goes to twins and kill rightmost twin (leftmost can be ignored)

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<10s should be possible

minor ether
limpid gorge
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gotcha

minor ether
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astal is weird. I don't like the fact that you can completely ignore him if you're fast enough so the challenges basically got spells disabled for that reason (and mage teleport existing) to slow it down, but also I agree astal defend kinda sucks in its current form and is pretty dull. idk, I'd be interested in thoughts of ways to fix it

limpid gorge
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similarly to defending the escort golems