bmonk buff

[south pilot]

Hey, I know this is kinda random but don’t yall think bmonk deserves a slight damage buff? In my opinion, battle monk is really nice as it is, good movement, ehp and all that but it lacks quite a ton of damage. I know that for ehp you take paladin and for damage you take fallen. Battle monk is a combination of both in my opinion, with better mobility. But from my gameplay, the damage is…missing i guess? Like don’t get me wrong, it is definetely not nonexistent but in a world where fallen can go to 1m burst, battle monk is only doing 80-100k, 150k at most. I think it doesn’t need any revamp/rework but a damage buff. Maybe that it can go to 200-300k? It would be more than enough. Bring back the old surfing meta because that was peak bmonk gameplay!!!!!!!!!!! Also, the mythic aspect should get a slight buff aswell. The discombabulate it gives is just not enough. Other than that, some new aspects, would be really nice, the current aspects are only good on the aoe part.

[flat trout]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/911561413884002315/973195970445738034/image0-59.gif

[fickle venture]

You WILL take flying kick and you WILL be happy

[civic violet]

its theming is just so lackluster though
i feel like a rework would be better tbh

[bold plaza]

if u want dmg then just go fallen

even convergence can have 150k dps without bmonk aspect

[red lava]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1037118557156286464/1351909616602316911/FlyingKick.gif

[worthy parcel]

large scale rework like riftwalker and we‘ll be so barrack

[idle pond]

bmonk needs a full rework just slapping damage on its abilities as a bandaid is asking for pala and fallen to abuse them even further and doesnt fix the issue that the class doesnt have a coherent kit at all. Id rather it just stay weak until a proper rework to avoid temporary balance nightmares that may come with buffing its damage sources through stuff like discomb stacking or ratios on airshout/halfmoon

[worthy parcel]

I mean

You could do a funny and switch cyclone and air shout position

just to troll fallen players

[idle pond]

would be a bigger nerf to pala actually lol

[south pilot]

i dont want to play fallen

[worthy parcel]

would it? dont you nearly always get stronger sacred surge? I mean it would be for earlygame I agree

[south pilot]

its big dmg but i dont like the playstyle

[idle pond]

pala gets like fuck all for spell upgrades so its hard crutching on airshout and halfmoon being so accessible rn, if cutscream got shot tomorrow youd just see ppl back on the ETWF builds again barely losing any damage

[idle pond]

you alr get stronger surge on pala, you get everything up to trumpet, palas only damage node outside ssurge is a 30% ratio on bash its like insanely pathetic lmao

[worthy parcel]

yeah paladin does not really seem to care about bash at the moment considering stronger bash is a neutral node

[idle pond]

this and FA just randomly has some of the most insane -4th cost items in the game

you can get a competant cutscream pala build that can actually die but can still glue if youre attentive and does enough damage to solo boss albeit with a decent ammt of difficulty

[worthy parcel]

I do think with sacred surge no longer activating on bash there needs to be a new node for Bash to restore peace

[south pilot]

sacred surge is honestly bad for bmonk

[idle pond]

anyways i dont wanna derail too much the main point is that just moving airshout hurts warrior in general not just fallen, fallen would care the least actually, and while its unhealthy that so much of the entire class is crutching on a random overtuned bmonk node i dont think the answer can be just to nerf it without any recourse

[south pilot]

its damage is kinda…

[south pilot]

kinda agreed but maybe they meant it like that?

when 2.0 dropped there were more bmonk playstyles than they are now

[worthy parcel]

well air shout is in a weird position where people complain its giga strong but also its such a key node you cant really touch it

[idle pond]

ssurge damage is wild if you can use it properly, uppercut with comet and fireworks gives you 3 ssurge procs on a single target for the cost of one which triples your effectivieness, most ssurge bmonk builds ive played have had ~10k or more damage on a surge so youre getting 30k damage for a single on its quite good actually considering you dont lose anything for it like you do with BP or bakals

[idle pond]

wdym?

[worthy parcel]

especially with the ratio buffs ssurge got bash with ssurge would have been insane, if not for its interaction removal

[south pilot]

maybe they meant it to be an archetype u can easily combine with others to make new playstyles

[south pilot]

yeah but it doesn’t trigger so often icl

i cycle charge bash upper so it only cycles every few seconds

[worthy parcel]

Actually with max apects its not hard at all as bmonk using warscream to charge it

[idle pond]

id have to find the links for you but he'll probably say it himself when he sees this thread, terminated along with the majority of AT team hold the belief that every archetype should be strong on its own and be the curated way you experience the power fantasies of its abilities, atree mixing is encouraged and they dont have an issue with it but taking from the precednet they set with things like winded and ritualist node grabbing they do not want any archetype to just be a thing you steal stuff from to make your other archetype builds stronger

[worthy parcel]

tempest; air shout; cyclone; all give bonus charges

[idle pond]

oh yeah kinda real then tbh, depends on what nodes you have on your tree alot of stuff greatly improves ssurge gen, maxxed aspect with maxxed flaming uppercut aspect + something like cyclone or tempest will print alot of ssurge though, not a fan of it being aspect reliant but it can get p decent uptime

[south pilot]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder?v=14#9_0xi0px0x70Qx0t80K20K40OM0Qf0k112I09091g10009I10009I10000U10009I1001cU0z0z0+0+0+0+0-1TjtvBwXYBR

i use this tree

the build too it was the only good one i found

[south pilot]

understood but ever since 2.0 this kinda didnt happen

[idle pond]

yeah its been smth theyve been needing to work on lol, i think every class has one archetype that is basically just an op node buffet for others to steal shit off, trickster, rift, sharp, bmonk, ritualist, its something that is getting changed eventually though and with the state of fallen i dont think buffing stuff that it can get easy access to is a good idea generally tbh

[south pilot]

bmonk rn is just good to take aggro

you basically take 0 damage if ur surfing and dps players dont need to worry about for example greg

[idle pond]

rlly funny u say that actually cause thats what my friend whos #2 on nol lb uses it for, alot of really cool shit you can do with a hyper mobile decently tanky class that can take provoke

think he just drops ssurge alltogether tho

and uppercut 💀

[south pilot]

i find surfing so fun lol

u just aggro and fly

[idle pond]

ok ykw looking at his build again im not gonna sugar coat it he legit is just playing bashscream

yeah its a rlly fun playstyle

[south pilot]

its also high ehp

i switched some things in that build and got like 50k ehp in raid

so fun lol being invincible

only downside is that you can’t really solo due to the low dps so in case your teammates die you’re either cooked or just gonna be playing for another 30m

[idle pond]

yeah bashscream seems like its kinda the only damage viable playstyle for monk and it barely edges out 200k on like a full glass build 😭

another reason why it prolly needs a rework and not a buff tho is imagine if u could be 50k ehp hyper mobile and still be doing 300k damage

might get a little braindead

[south pilot]

fallen is like close to 50k ehp and doing 400k-1m lol

that thing so overpowered

[worthy parcel]

Mandatory generalist cyclone defeating bash scream once and for all

[south pilot]

isnt idol surf just flying tank

thats how i see it lol

[worthy parcel]

though personally I would love/ would have loved for uppercut to become a single target attack for bmonk instead of 3 circle abilities

[idle pond]

i think those numbers are very inflated but i get your point

[south pilot]

na lol i saw some hero builds with 27k raw ehp

if u pop a defence pot and an ehp buff raid thats it

close to 50k

fallen is hard tho imo

[idle pond]

biggest thing is though that any fallen build thats hitting anywhere near that damage needs to be on AB + BP which inherently means its going to be high risk, most of your damage is backloaded on the multiplicative stacking of BP + AB + high enraged blow% so youre gonna be a near oneshot if youre getting those numbers

[south pilot]

its kinda so easy and so hard at the same time

[south pilot]

yeah thats what im tryna say, its easy but really risky

you kinda need skill

[idle pond]

the spell cycle is easy, the game sense and positioning isnt, although icl upperscream kinda makes it hader to defend w/ the insane aoe

[worthy parcel]

isnt that what fallen is all about, more damage for more risk

[idle pond]

not to mention every hero build under the sun just randomly started having literal warp level walkspeed

for some reason

[idle pond]

yeah and thats why i think fallen having really good damage is fine, it carries a risk with that, bmonk in its current state can basically avoid all damage and doesnt even get punished much if you do get hit so its rlly hard to justify giving it better damage

(full disclosure fallen is doing too much damage rn and its prolly getting nerfed like next patch, talking about the idea of big numbers not the actual numbers it has rn)

[worthy parcel]

well I do think bmonk should deal more damage than paladin and less than fallen. The discussion is moreso how close these numbers should be. Bmonk tankiness is awkward to measure anyway and I feel like they may move bmonk a bit away from perma flight, considering that was their main critique with Acrobat too

[south pilot]

i honestly take guardian major id in raids with b monk

i dont take damage anyway so atleast i tank fallen’s or any other dps’s

[idle pond]

yeah bmonk needs more risk before it can get more damage, be that in the form of a harder to execute gameplan or some innate vulnerability

[idle pond]

do u have wynntils aoe indicators on? 😭

[worthy parcel]

aero being a mode with a relatively decent cooldown would be interesting

[lament nova]

Bmonk is due for a rework in general

[idle pond]

guardian mid is like 4 blocks radius i dont even think tank guard players are getting mileage out of the mid let alone someone flying around lmao

really sucks it is like that tho icl

[worthy parcel]

in the end bmonk might just become inverse acrobat where you occasionally get into air to maximise damage

[south pilot]

no honestly

[south pilot]

nah occasionally?

honestly if ur surfing and not in the air ur cooked

isnt surfing the only playstyle left on bmonk other than bash scream?

[idle pond]

its the red line its 8 blocks not 4 mb but like u have to basically be standing hand in hand with ppl to get use out of it 😭

[worthy parcel]

actually you can do generalist cycle with comet being easier to access again, not like it would outdps bashscream though

[south pilot]

atleast the buff gives +30mr tho

[idle pond]

real and true

[south pilot]

thats why i take it cuz mana regen on surfing is essential

cuz sometimes you miss spells or cast the wrong one and generalist resets

you can sustain 1+20+15 with like 60-70mr

[bold plaza]

it basically just a playstyle take a bit risky to play but u get heal from nothing and keep killing everything, like bmonk without okr or rally and healer just much painful and 100k dps isn't high since u just make those mobs flying around and no one can reach it😭

[idle pond]

the solution to a class being bad isnt ignoring it lol

[bold plaza]

yeah but someone already said that so i just skip it

[idle pond]

gg

[south pilot]

on god

[bold plaza]

and there is nothing to do before they change it

[south pilot]

i honestly just play what i find fun i dont mind the dps or anything

[bold plaza]

then 150k dps is enough for bmonk

bmonk doesn't need buff bc u enjoy

[worthy parcel]

well bmonk sucks more than just damage wise, the entire kit is not coherent

if it was only damage and the best kit in the entire game you could just easily double the ratios on everything and call it a day

but even if you did that right now it would not change bmonk‘s position

[south pilot]

150k at good times lol

100k is the baseline rn and i sometimes dont even get that

[bold plaza]

maybe try to aim enemies bc air shout is great dmg in bmonk cycle

[south pilot]

yeah im still new to surfing and im still learning

[worthy parcel]

air shout aspect, dont take quadra bash but stronger bash instead

[south pilot]

what if my tree has both tho

[worthy parcel]

well if you are casting bash too quickly the final bash is not getting out

meaning you lose damage

[south pilot]

well idk how long the bash takes to hit all 4 times but i proc bash every 1-2 seconds?

its just charge bash upper

[worthy parcel]

if its every 1,5s its fine

if you play(ed) pure bashscream then quadra is, funnily enough, always a straight nerf

[south pilot]

never played bashscream ngl

its kinda boring and low dps aswell, surf is atleast fun

[worthy parcel]

well its braindead, thats what people love it for. And with crafted 150k dps. It was more fun with ssurge though

[south pilot]

yeah i honestly dislike braindead playstyles a lot

[worthy parcel]

nowadays I just wait for any bmonk changes and hoard some money for potential build changes

[south pilot]

hoping they make bmonk great in fruma

with the new level cap im sure they will do reworks

in most if not all archetypes slightly

[worthy parcel]

well, if they rework all 3 red nodes, + give it a cool fourth node, I can see it being fun again and good damage

[south pilot]

discombabulate especially

its kinda dog icl

[worthy parcel]

well its 40k dps increase but probably the most basic of damage buff designs you can get

[south pilot]

yeah thats what im saying

[worthy parcel]

I‘d rather have it fit into the entire kit and individually be more of a support than a carry for the archetype

besides a stacking/resource mechanic as third red node just doesnt work

[south pilot]

yeah

[shell pewter]

I still want to see bmonk get more spells, I think that would fit pretty well and be really fun.

Example:
Scream -> Uppercut = 5th spell
Scream -> Bash = 6th spell
Scream -> Dash = 7th

Sure that's just an example but adding more depth to the kit by incentivizing spell combos would be pretty cool

Adding a higher skill ceiling and increasing the fun

[worthy parcel]

you could start with the spell affected with generalist having a special effect/triggering special abilities

then further introduce combos by adding nodes that specifically ask you to cast 2 unique spells in a row for a new outcome

Or you add nodes that build on existing nodes and only trigger when abilities are triggered in a certain order, like first hitting an enemy with flying kick and then airshout

[shell pewter]

I'm liking the combo ideas

[worthy parcel]

well easiest way to introduce new spells is by using Generalist. Making all 3-4 outcomes unique might help with making them useful enough for players to want to rotate them

War scream could be a self buff, charge a debuff and bash and uppercut repeatable damage spells

this already adds a very thick layer of complexity to bmonk‘s spell casting system and elevates it from other archetypes

[surreal spear]

ahem CONVERGENCE MAJOR ID ahem please with the bmonk buff :D

Its just worse than Idol for surfing which is kinda dead as well

[worthy parcel]

„The place converged: All your spells deal -20% neutral, but +4% of each elemental type“

[surreal spear]

Well the opposite of that would make more sense imo, forcing ele dmg sounds like diverging

Also pls remove ele dmg from discombobulate and buff neutral instead, forcing rainbow is kinda cringe

Like you have
Hero with e6t6w6a6
Idol with e6t6a6
Convergence with e6t6a6

[shell pewter]

You had me at remove discomb

[worthy parcel]

it might get yeeted anyway but in case it gets blue node treatment, 1200 raw damage/ratio damage is probably better ye

[civic violet]

i highly doubt they want to touch raw damage tbh, several ct said it's really painful on AT iirc

[lilac moon]

good bmonk builds do 150-250k

(actually same as pala)

[worthy parcel]

can you send me one that does 250k rn

(unless it just dibs into fallen)

tbh non-corrupted bloodpact bmonk could be something in the future, just kinda expensive ap wise

[south pilot]

i dont think any bmonk build does 200-250k rn

150k at good times, usually like 100k

[worthy parcel]

tbf the silly corrupted bashscream does deal like 250k but you dont have AP for mantles

and jumping into corrupted always makes the build a bit, dirty

[woven gale]

You mean without discomb?

[worthy parcel]

nah you can do with

[kindred swift]

generalist doesnt really feel like a bmonk ability? i mean its not bad but why is it a red node, lmao

[worthy parcel]

Thats not the only thing there is to it.

1. why is it optional? A red node, aka super archetype defining node, being optional is already where the paradox begins
2. Rn its just a glorified mana node when it deserves, as first red node, to lay the foundation of the archetype.
3. The entire rest of the tree does not refer to Generalist at all. In fact, there are 3 -5 mana cost 1AP nodes on the way to the third red node, kinda desynergising with Generalist setting the mana cost to 1 already

[stark rampart]

Also doesn't help that pure Paladin can consistently do 100k+ DPS with f*cking Convergence + Boreal on an HPR set 💀💀💀

[south pilot]

yh but paladin is boring

no fly low ws

[stark rampart]

Yeahhhh...

[bold plaza]

if paladin can fly then monk really is 🤡

[south pilot]

it cant

[stark rampart]

It technically can if you use Charging Flame

[bold plaza]

yeah very efficient way to fly upwards fr

[kindred swift]

monk is not a monk

also, whirlwind strike feels like a blue node or something,

[stark rampart]

Not efficient, but it's identical to battle Monk besides the initial boost in height

[kindred swift]

Maybe a better Generalist ability? Such as this:

Finishing Blow

After casting 3 different spells in a row, your next
spell will cost 3 mana and deal additional damage

and have that additional damage be 20 - 50% dmg

with additional nodes that focus on these combos throughout the tree

[open topaz]

I was gonna say acro, does pala actually do that much?

surely acro damage and pala damage aren't equal... right??

right?

[lilac moon]

yes

[open topaz]

man

[lilac moon]

well pala + bpact

[open topaz]

yeah but it's still pala

sad