Reasons why the CPS cap needs to be lowered

[winged shale]

Hi,

I've been around the game for a while, and here is my constructive feedback about the cps cap. Currently, the cps cap is at around 10-12, based from claims ive heard. This is too high. WAY too high. Here is a list of problems because of the cps cap being high:

1. Creates big gap between the dps of a non cps player vs a cps player. Being able to cast double the spells compared to a normal player is too much on the fragile game balance. Archetypes that can mana print are getting high dps due to being able to sustain the high cost cycles 10-12 cps can achieve. Archetypes that can't rely on high mr gear, or even lutho mana pots to sustain the high cycles.
2. due to 1, game balance is too hard for the ct to keep track of. they have to balance the game for both parties, if they make the game too easy, good players don't get content; if the game is too hard, casual players are lost. There are already many gaps between a casual and experienced player (gear rolls, crafteds/uncrafteds, actual skill, aspects), but cps is one of the highest in importance imo
3. Is unhealthy for the player's health. I shouldn't have to mention this, but clicking this fast without using single spell macros is not good for your hand (shocker). If you do use single spell macros (will name them ssm) then you still have players install mods to do these macros (on the server that is advertised as no mods needed, to have metas that need mods to function (also looking at you wars) is not a good sight).
4. Multi spell/looping macros issue. Due to the high cps needed for meta, people will use macros to deal the optimal dps. multi/looping macros might be the biggest problem currently in the game, and while it will never be fully removed, i wish there was more fight against it.

Due to this, I would suggest for the devs to decide in lowering the cps cap, to at least 7-8 cps. This would promote a bunch of other playstyles to get results comparable to the would-be nerfed meta. Thanks for reading :3

[cerulean bay]

while I do agree macros are a huge issue lowering the cap even further decentivizes some higher skill playstyles so it's kinda a sensitive balance point

[opaque agate]

I agree, I would like to see a world where you didn't need to macrospam to get competitive dps

[cerulean bay]

like you can realistically hit 10cps without macros if u have a gaming chair

[opaque agate]

Which is why I like Acolyte so much, it's one of the best we have to fixing the issue

[rancid thorn]

not only this but the game would feel so insanely ass to play even just manual casting if the cps you can hit clicking normally is getting throttled, a whole new world of unresponsiveness and misinputs

[torn jewel]

icl id love to see proper spell cooldowns like other games have

[winged shale]

which high skill playstyle is this affecting, actually, what would you say high skill playstyle means

[torn jewel]

however i dont think it works with the current state of wynn

[opaque agate]

Or canceling previous spells when repeat casted

Like Aura

[cerulean bay]

I feel like 8-9 cps wouldn't be that big of a throttle unless you are a crazy fast clicker but the point still stands

[cerulean bay]

just like clicking fast in general you see in arcanist bolt sharp acro etc

[livid drum]

Imagine spell cooldown and spell cast speed stat, tstack arcanist

[exotic gorge]

Just make every playstyle low skill required 🤓

[rancid thorn]

literally anything with fast inputs, remember that cps cap doesnt just limit your spells per second, it also limits how fast you can do certain actions, things like hotswapping masks on ritualist, backstab chaining on shade, grapple bomb surfing on trapper, or spell weaving on bmonk would all just barely be worth it or possible

[trail stratus]

acro 10cps for 10 damage take it or leave it

[cerulean bay]

this too

[livid drum]

meteor being casted less but doing more damage would make it feel more like a meteor ngl, rn tcc almost feels like I'm throwing pebbles at it really fast

[eager latch]

cps is not skill lmao 😭
skill is about knowing how to play optimally, react quickly, manage your resources, track team and enemy positions, etc

[opaque agate]

I think incentivzing proper spell usage and cycling would be better than hard cooldowns on spells or lowering the cap

[cerulean bay]

cps is a part of skilled gameplay it just gets dumbed down for lack of a better word bc of mscros

[rancid thorn]

bolt sharp and acro are all relatively lower cps (especially bolt) tbh, like when divzer was meta it was just 6 cps arrow storm bomb cycle which wasnt all that intensive at all, now it gets a bit worse w/ double bomb but its still not doing 10 it just doesnt need to

[trail stratus]

yeah since the vast majority of your damage isn’t even in cycling but rather in stomp 5cps acro is surprisingly similar to 10cps acro in damage

[winged shale]

those certain actions are also spells, would you say anything that is not casting 2 spells and slightly aiming is high skill or is any archetype with spell interaction/ actual gameplay cycle a high skill playstyle

[eager latch]

ok, but shade is in a really weird space bc of it right now, it's not sustainable long-term

[upbeat elm]

then there's riftwalker

[rancid thorn]

im talking about getting two stabs so you can renew vanish, not 332 cycling on macros that is 100% unhealthy youre right

[cerulean bay]

timelocked riftwalker is the cps menace

[upbeat elm]

im fairly sure riftwalker just needs a budget sorcery node

[winged shale]

timelock should instead end after x spells casted (or a large amount of time passed)

[upbeat elm]

just so people stop breaking their hands

[opaque agate]

It needs timelocked to not increase spell cost

[cerulean bay]

giving creative flight for a large amt of time might be problematic but that's like a different topic anyway

[opaque agate]

Yeah but the downside is you're playing riftwalker

[rancid thorn]

theres alot of facets to skill its not just high cps its not just aim its not just timing and its not just dynamically changing your cycle, these things all blend together to create different kinds of skill demand in different classes and i think youre looking for a nuclear option that will inadvertantly kill alot of the other kinds of skill expression that are reliant on being able to do things quickly

[exotic gorge]

I mean what gongus said
“higher skill playstyles”

Im just using the opposite word

[trail stratus]

main issue is that under current implementation there is no way to have fun gimmicks that don’t require spells that aren’t just heavy melee again or tstack. setting up quickly or doing things dynamically and fluidly require higher needs more cps — not every class needs to be resource management and under wynn’s current structure almost none of them are lol

would require almost a full overhaul of every single archetype

[winged shale]

this nuclear option that im presenting is made for blanket nerfing all the playstyles related to high cps. I present this option so that ct can have more options with balancing (point 2)

[cerulean bay]

just hopping on this there's mechanical skill and game sense but both can probably be put under the "skill" blanket term

[exotic gorge]

uhm

[rancid thorn]

this doesnt just nerf high cps playstyles though this also nerfs anything that wants to adjust itself quickly for any reason, acolyte is a super low cps playstyle however using EC, or fanatic/luna swaps it can require several quick inputs to recharge blood or gain burst mobility, lowering the cps cap to nerf something like looping macroed fallen is also going to massively harm that class' ability to execute its gameplan

[trail stratus]

cps cap also isn’t the biggest skill gap between new players and high tier players imo — it’s usually build diffing lol

[winged shale]

there have already been archetypes changed for stronger spells that cost more intead of weaker spells that are spammed (acolyte, acro, burst fallen too ig?), which would be a nice change in general. The archetypes that do rely on needing more spells to do their gameplay (battle monk with generalist, arcanist) could use nodes that replicated spells (arcane explosion basically).

[winged shale]

ive seen players having the same build but get 60% of the dps due to not being able to cast faster

[rancid thorn]

i think the real best solution is to stop adding instacast abilities so much, things like spin backstab and airshout do just incentivize high cps 3 spell slop cycles that can be repeated at high cps for insane results, giving cast time like is present on stuff like bouncing bomb, arrow storm, ophanim, or lacerate artificially curates the dps a class is able to do within a reasonable limit and bridges the divide between high cps and low cps players without intervening in high apm optimizations like in my earlier acolyte example

[cerulean bay]

air shout my beloathed

[opaque agate]

Real and true

[rancid thorn]

trickshade my beloathed

[cerulean bay]

augh cat

[vale river]

Mana should be limited, not cps
Reasons: resource management is a big part of the majority of the game; spell spam favors macro usage and inherently less thoughtful; abilities with value over time and cc abilities get underutilized due to inefficiency

[unkempt zephyr]

ok but single spell macros are allowed so that sounds more like limiting themselves than the games problem

[winged shale]

this is a great idea actually, make spells heavier is also one of the ways i thought to fix the high cps problem. Would ofc need a lot of balancing, I just go with the easiest solution (which is basically a number change, instead of remaking 60% of spells

[exotic gorge]

Now this is so real on fallen and the whole assassin

[opaque agate]

I remember during TNA trikobat meta I bought a full Nirv build and got shite damage, passed it to my friend and he got easily double my dps. Now you can call this a skill issue on my part and that may be true but I don't think skill expression through macrospam is necessarily "real" skill expression in the game

[rancid thorn]

2.0 20cps macros were something

[opaque agate]

Yeah I was manually macroing which just doesn't compare to full auto cycling

Spam too slow and you get no damage, spam too fast and you ruin the spell queue

[winged shale]

as i said, the game gets advertized as not needing any mods. if you need mods to get higher dps that would look bad to any new players

[rancid thorn]

i was gonan say also yeah, the first cps limit they introduced was alot easer to gage as no human is casting at the speeds that got limited, lowering it from the current 10 (9?) is going to start messing with natural casters which will really hurt gameplay feeling and responsiveness, i do just think cast times are better for dps gating overall, not that many spells even need a change iirc

[exotic gorge]

Should punish the auto cycler at first(impossible to find them)

[winged shale]

i do think the server could detect looping/multi macros without the need of human confirmation, it just that they don't bother to

[opaque agate]

I don't think they should personally

[exotic gorge]

same

Sounds like many problems will happen along with it

false alarm etc

[rancid thorn]

strongly disagree not to mention this would lead to insane ammounts of false positives on people who cast very consistantly with spell macros

if it were simple they would be doing it alr

[winged shale]

false alarms can be avoided too, multi spell macros/looping macros have one thing in common: they cast on the same ticks dozens of times.

[winged shale]

dev time is limited, if they barely can spend it on ct how are they going to spend it on helping moderators

[vale river]

If u want people to cast slower there is a mechanic in the game that limits the number of spells you can throw out already, its ridiculous to implement whatever this is

[rancid thorn]

we should get duat in here to give his thoughts on this i think

[rancid thorn]

real

[opaque agate]

Yeah no offense but i don't exactly 100% trust mods on this kinda thing

[winged shale]

i don't trust mods either, in fact im #1 mod critic. most of them don't know how to moderate properly and after what happened with retepeter i can't trust them. but it is a tool that they need, since there is close to 0 chance of actually catching loop multi macroers

[winged shale]

this mechanic that limits the number of spells doesn't seem to be working atm then. maybe it should be buffed so its noticeable

[vale river]

Ok i go ask ims to nerf every mana items and every ability

[winged shale]

at has mana printing too don't forget that

[spring sandal]

gg go next

[winged shale]

The main point I made about this thread is: current cps cap is too high IMO, it presents these 4 issues. If these issues are fixed in other manners i would be happier. Decreasing the cps cap is meant as the easy way out, not the only way out (of the current issues)

[frozen sigil]

I dont think this issue is so damning that it needs an easy way out

and a lower CPS cap seems like it won't really solve these issues IMO and just piss a lot of people off for no good reason

I don't at all think high CPS in wynn makes THAT huge a difference

I play with 1 finger on my mouse because of carpal tunnel and I really dont have that big an issue

mouse* lol

[torpid hound]

is this like an actual post

[winged shale]

yes, youre looking at it

[winged shale]

it sadly does, the builds you are using could get more dps by just clicking more times per second.

[frozen sigil]

yea but its not like if u dont you can't play

we don't balance the game around it

[winged shale]

i know that, the game is more than playable with 3cps on any builds. it just that the higher cps cap makes the game easier in general, whether it is by allowing you more dodging with spells or more damage with spells.

[spring sandal]

alr 3 cps is too demonic

[uncut surge]

0.5 cps change when?

[torpid hound]

what about a dps cap instead

[winged shale]

the lowest i could go for is 8 cps, lower than that would kill too much and hurt too much

[winged shale]

doesn't fix the issues

[frozen sigil]

having better hand eye coordination also make the game easier, game sense makes the game easier, like yes I get the point that crazy high CPS is an issue but just going FUCK IT limit it to 8 is crazy. It's a self inflicted issue on the people who want to abuse it. Which does at some point need to be addressed but this is a little much

[rancid thorn]

you know its like 9 or 10 rihgt now right? if the issues youre describing are as bad as you say surely a 10% decrease would not fix that 💀

[opaque agate]

Just build anti-spam into each kit. It's more healthy than lowering the cap

Aco does it wonderfully

[spring sandal]

At some point u gotta realize maybe if u can't click that fast to play another game or if u really gotta play wynn just use a macro

[frozen sigil]

basically this

[jagged sleet]

I dont even think that specifically decreasing the cps count is a way out at all. Stuff like adding a spell cooldown while increasing overall damage scaling (+ other stuff like adding more to the mana bank) would prolly be a healthier change

[winged shale]

ive been told its either 10 or 12, and if 10% isn't that big of a change then people wouldn't say it hurts high skill builds

[opaque agate]

Spell cooldowns would feel so bad

[winged shale]

thats been suggested and i think is a far better option. but i can't design anti spam on everything in a post.

[rancid thorn]

you cant use "its not a big deal" as an argument when youre the one that wants the change vro, if its not a big deal for either way then surely you cannot in good faith be asking for it 😭

[opaque agate]

It is the perfect solution but I doubt we will ever see it happen

[rancid thorn]

also the cap is roughly 3 spells per second

12 would be 4 which is not somethign i have ever seen even on people obviously abusing looping macros

[winged shale]

this is contructive feedback about the game that i have made and written. I have thought this over for at least 2 days- also why should wynn be designed around macros in the first place, its advertized as a no mods required server

[woven mortar]

boltslinger fights anti spam by having terrible mana sustain 💪

[winged shale]

the reason i ask for it is to make the game easier to balance from the ct side, to make macros less incentivizing to help moderators, and for casual to intermediate players to not feel like the game is unfair to unmodded.

[rancid thorn]

nah its spells just take time to do their thing im glad it is the way it is and i just hope its spells are changed in a way that doesnt turn it into another high cps class when it is inevitably buffed

[spring sandal]

"this is contructive feedback about the game that i have made and written. I have thought this over for at least 2 days" congrats bro
"also why should wynn be designed around macros in the first place, its advertized as a no mods required server" it's not. the player in this case just has a medical condition or in general isn't good at using their mouse

[rancid thorn]

dude youre just restating the premises of your post this doesnt address the fact you just made an appeal to ambivelance 😭 either 10% is a big deal or it isnt, if it isnt your solution is just not worth pursuing, if it is you need to explain how a 10% decrease in cps fundementally solves the issues youve posited this is like not a great position for an argument icl

[torpid hound]

i promise you usage of multi spell macros isnt a big deal rn

[spring sandal]

@rancid thorn

[rancid thorn]

sup

[flat relic]

I would die if the cps limit got lowered than what it is rn

[woven mortar]

duat !

[flat relic]

Current cps limit already feels bad to me

[raven mirage]

the issues brought up in this post are reasonable, but lowering cps cap is like the worst solution. if players have to deal with miscasting spells because of skipped inputs the game would feel so bad to play

[rancid thorn]

wow guys known looping macroer doesnt like lowering the cps cap what a surprise 😏 /j

[torpid hound]

• current cps cap isn't the problem with game balancing, it's the balancing team themselves

[rancid thorn]

if you banned every single person running trickshade in raids rn you would probably have like a 70-90% accuracy rate of getting cheaters icl

[woven mortar]

lmao

[rancid thorn]

other 30-10 would just be community service icl

[winged shale]

well, this is why i made the feedback post in the first place (to get feedback)

[winged shale]

a cps cap doesn't mean you will skip inputs (unless youre casting above the limit)

[trail stratus]

yeah so it would make you skip inputs

[dense vale]

the cps cap already feels like shit even when i manually cast for awakened on ritualist sometimes, the dps diff between endgame raid sweats or wtever and a casual player is more than just cps diff(aspects and cr gear and stuff)

[rancid thorn]

yeah so you would skip inputs 😐

[winged shale]

skip inputs that you aren't meant to input

[opaque agate]

I already skip inputs when I lock tf in

[trail stratus]

without any feedback other than miscasting

[winged shale]

what does that mean

[trail stratus]

right now the CPS limit is pretty high which makes manual casting unlikely to cross it and drop inputs

[rancid thorn]

have you tried lowering wynn spellcaster delay to like 50 and just spamming a spell bind? that is what manaul cast will feel like if the cps cap is meaningfully lowered

[torpid hound]

10 cps isn't that high

[trail stratus]

if it’s lower the only feedback you get for clicking faster is randomly losing inputs

[winged shale]

i don't use wynn spellcaster

[trail stratus]

high for the majority of players i will say

[raven mirage]

and players arent gonna think "oh let me click slower since im hitting the cps cap" theyre gonna think "wow this game is so shit go next"

[rancid thorn]

you should try it, the feeling of an unresponsive game is absolutely terrible for enjoym,ent and people getting hit with misscasts for clicking too fast is a great way to piss them off lol

[woven mortar]

tbh lowering the CPS cap will have consequences on a lot more than just spell macroers. just casting manually, and not even quickly will feel more jank for everyone and youll definitely feel the changes when youre spamming right click for movement spell spam

[winged shale]

those players should play 1.8 pvp instead then

[torpid hound]

?????

[opaque agate]

10cps is hardly high for single click, if you're counting both mb1 and mb2 you'll easily hit 10

[spring sandal]

@torpid hound Hi

[opaque agate]

Based but irrelevant

[torpid hound]

"this game is ass"
"why don't you play something else"

[torpid hound]

Wsg

[rancid thorn]

????

[trail stratus]

i still think the majority of players won’t hit 10 cps but yes it is not too difficult to get there

[opaque agate]

Are the majority of players even manual casting though?

[rancid thorn]

wont hit 10 consistant sure, but msot people will peak the rate of 10 when doing fast inputs like shade double stabs which would just lead to input eating if it was reduced

[trail stratus]

probably newer players which make up a large amount of players

[opaque agate]

I guess so, always a suprise to see how many new players we get

[trail stratus]

yeah for sure that’s why i’m against lowering cps cap

[rancid thorn]

yeah

[opaque agate]

There's arguments for each side i just feel like there are better solutions than lowering the cps cap

So I don't completely disagree with OP because I do recognize the issue

[rancid thorn]

there are issues with a system that incentivizes high cps, there are solutions that do not involve making the game feel like shit, and there are arguments for those methods that do not involve telling people to go play 1.8 lmfao

[opaque agate]

Exactly what I said

[rancid thorn]

yurp

[winged shale]

for example the solution citied said (ie make damage spells heavier/more drawn out instead of instant), which i agree more than my own idea, is a better solution. it just that i operate on the shortest path (which is not ideal)

[sour inlet]

wait, whats the cps cap rn?

[languid sand]

💀

[winged shale]

but really if you can't actually adjust your clicking to a cps cap (and say "wow this game is so shit go next") you should play things that either don't have a cps cap, or have a high enough one where you won't reach it

[sour inlet]

how tf did i miss that

[languid sand]

LMAO

[rancid thorn]

huh?

[sour inlet]

anyways, i dont think 10-12 cps is high tbh. im fine if the cap is like 10 or 9. but lowering beyond that is gonna hurt actual players that dont use macros (me)

[sour inlet]

if they really want, they could just ban the use of macros to keep it fair for everyone but thats not gonna happen (and people will not like that).

[rancid thorn]

i think youre misunderstanding what they said, their argument is that low cps cap feels identical to input lag or unresponsiveness, newer players who hit this cap (8 is insanely low thats 4 cps per finger) will assume it is the server being shit and will have a negative perception of it as there is no reasonable way of explaining this to them early on, therefore a cps limit that inhibits manual casting speeds would need to have a HUGE ammount of justification, not just what youve said

[sour inlet]

^^ and also if u are spell spamming really fast, and, lets say u want to charge to dodge an attack, u would have to wait till the spells in the queue to finish (from my understanding at least, spell queue hasnt been a problem to me so far)

i think cps cap is not the solution to balance the game, maybe theres too much mana regen and heavy spell is just not viable enough? idk much balancing but i dont think cps is the problem

[languid sand]

cps is absolutely a problem for stuff like timelocked and acrobat

There has to be a cps cap for stuff like that

[sick wigeon]

this has already been tried before and it didn't work, idk why op is acting as if this is something new to think about

[sour inlet]

i meant capping cps. yeah its a problem, but its more like a problem from the ability itself

[languid sand]

meant cps cap, but still acrobat with no cps cap would lead to some insane stuff

Idk about lowering cps cap but there definitely has to be one

[rancid thorn]

would it?

[languid sand]

Really depends on how much sustain you could get idk

[sour inlet]

well there already is a cps cap, and the current one is fine from what i see

[rancid thorn]

acro is one of the best cps gated classes from what i can see, lacerate, multihit, and smokebomb all have a prolongued cast time and do not benefit much from high cps spam

[languid sand]

Yeah ik, I’m just making the point that cps cap is 100% necessary

[dry harness]

there are several things that would be a problem with no cps cap and acro would not be one of them 💀

[languid sand]

That’s true actually I never thought about it

[trail stratus]

acro would get the least benefit out of having no cps cap

[rancid thorn]

acro would not be an example of this, best example is arcanist or fallen both of wwhich can ignore mana completely and can theoretically do infinite cps (fallen would need to heal at least)

[languid sand]

fallen with no cps cap is truly a horrifying thought

I think Arcanist might crash the server

[sour inlet]

trapper already does that so 🤷‍♂️ ||/j but its so laggy||

[dry harness]

thing abt infinite spell casting u would also need infinite mana which would require an insane printer otherwise youd have to build more mana and at some point you would be doing less dmg

[trail stratus]

bolt try not to lag challenge

[dense vale]

the world if timelocked removed cps cap 😔

[rancid thorn]

arcanist 😄

[languid sand]

when riftwalker was meta

[stiff spruce]

sees panic zealot

[trail stratus]

And spam what?

[dry harness]

aura?

[trail stratus]

Aura has travel time

so it would only be TCC exclusive fun

[dry harness]

glue ☺️

[flat relic]

Make a new major id called Sticky Totem where the totem sticks to the mob u throw it at

Bam, 10 cps aura spam

[trail stratus]

glue directly on top of totem wow… new tech

[desert storm]

I like this post! One thing I'd like to add is I'd love to see the function of multi spell macros be added directly into the vanilla game as to put all players on the same playing field in terms of external factors outside skill and items in game!
Thank you for voicing what many have been scared to let out as this game's playerbase is full of players looking for unfair advantages...

[desert storm]

I believe swap hands could be used as a toggle for such a feature ^-^

[unkempt zephyr]

I don't think adding spell macros to keybinds can be done in vanilla

swapping hands is just 1 key which just isn't enough

also what unfair advantages lol everyone can reach 12 cps with single spell macros if you don't want to use a macro that is not the games problem

[desert storm]

You dont need more than one preset

[unkempt zephyr]

how would you activate each spell then

[desert storm]

You toggle off

And cast normally for the spell you need

[unkempt zephyr]

what

[tired sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-cute-hat-spin-black-dog-gif-17636852

[desert storm]

My point is we need a vanilla feature mimicking exactly how loop macros work ^^;

[unkempt zephyr]

huh? that'sagainst the rules though

and how would you add that in the base game what

do you want to press offhand and then cast a spell and that spell gets repeatedly casted until you press f again?

[desert storm]

Heyyy dont rage bait me I gave a perfectly good idea >w<

[desert storm]

Would continuously cast a set made in a gui or via a command

[cerulean bay]

it's a very far out there idea but theoretically u could do like a

swap hands to toggle "macro mode" where the you could use different buttonsto cast spells, for example let's say hotbar 6,7,8,9 respectively casts spells 1,2,3,4

just putting the idea out there this has not been talked about internally at all

[vale river]

https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1182205344886313050

[verbal hatch]

Reasons why the CPS cap needs to stay the same

1. Only every third escape spell registers

[desert storm]

This is unreliable as the server's tickrate will never be exactly the same

[wispy river]

Q, F, Left, Right, they could totally just make all four spells have their own key.

[desert sable]

asking for more fight against multispell macros will cause alotta false bans imo, cause spell cycles exist, and humans physically cannot make random actions either, plus the only way to fix all this is to completely change how spells cast (yknow to fix the hand hurt issue which would fix your macro usage issue)

[warm falcon]

they should make cps 5 in my opinion

[wispy river]

real

[desert sable]

nah make it 1 cps

[unkempt zephyr]

I hope you're not seriosu

[desert storm]

I meant moreso implementing full loops, i don't think vanilla single spell macros would do much for most players

[wispy river]

cany bot can just have a +-1 tick variance in inputs with a shifting chance over time and it's entirely undetectable, regardless of where you set the line between human and machine, the botters can just tweak their macros to be just below the threshold.

[desert storm]

Multi spell macros will never be patched nor be humanly detectable so they should simply level the playing field by having all players deal standardized dps

[wispy river]

the entire game is about casting spells. automating that aspect completely removes a huge part of the gameplay

[desert storm]

The server cannot detect it no matter what this stuff happens way too fast and no variable in detection can help it

[desert storm]

Well its unfortunate but there's always room for non loopable playstyles to be meta/prominent and thatd keep that aspect of gameplay in

[wispy river]

as an opt-in option, I don't see any issue with it

[unkempt zephyr]

how will you melee how will you drop items

[desert storm]

Drag drop items

[wispy river]

^ I already do this, most players do.

[desert storm]

Nobody should be playing with drop bound at all thats stupid

[wispy river]

melee is an issue though, I forgot about that

surely they use slot detection for spells

imagine if creative mode hot-bar selector hotkeys are detectable server-side...

[desert sable]

YES IT WOULD, it would keep wynncraft as a vanilla server AND would make it not be the #1 carpal tunnel causer from canada to the dark side of the frickn moon

[rancid thorn]

this is diabolical LMAO some people will fly hack and dupe can we just have infinite items and creative too?

[desert storm]

No because those are humanly detectable and CAN be server detected

Loop macros cant be detected by either

[wispy river]

Full loop macros aren't nearly as much as an issue as you seem to think they are, hardly anyone uses them, most of them get banned, and they hardly get an advantage for using them anyway

[desert storm]

Server detectability is a little dreamy but at least the human element is reliable in this

[wispy river]

the mods ban anyone they even suspect of loop macroing, and the process to appeal it is extremely strict

[desert storm]

Noo way hahahaha, im not getting a 6 day minimum cooldown for being good at the game

[wispy river]

they already do this lmao

[desert storm]

Id stop playing entirely if it happened once, twice should get anyone to leave

[wispy river]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2nDkdrjLZY&t

[desert storm]

I dont think that was false

They only ban for looping with evidence on your side or if someone ratted you out

[wispy river]

wdym

[rancid thorn]

vro they literally undid it and gave the evidence, watch the video yourself 😭

[desert sable]

🔥🔥

[rancid thorn]

the evidence was that they saw him casting spells in lutho for like 10 seconds without moving his head after he had been reported for spell cycling in buff rooms

this isnt relevant though as they have clearly changed policy since

[desert sable]

we already have a problem with looping macros literally being spell cycles and 100% of players that don't use looping macros cast spell cycles themselves (like i said earlier humans cannot make random actions)

its very very hard to figure out which is which

[desert storm]

Ok honestly thats just braindead and was always going to be an outlier case . It should not be the norm like spaghetti suggested

[wispy river]

what shouldn't be the norm, keeping to a consistent cycle?

[desert storm]

No, banning people "suspected" of looping

[sharp star]

it's already incredibly frustrating to try and react with a spell like escape and having the triple click take an eternity because the cap

[opaque agate]

shift 🤯

and use sprint casting instead of shift casting

[rancid thorn]

anyways back to your main point, people breaking the rules is never a justification for removing the rules period no ands ifs or buts, some people choosing to diminish the experience for themselves does not mean wynn should completely trivialize the robust spell system they have build up over a literal decade that is completely asinien

[wispy river]

Shift detection and Sprint detection are extremely complex and TLDR: don't work for casting spells

Not to mention, they interfere with basic player movement.

[opaque agate]

neither would their initial premise

shift casting is fine enough rn anyways

[wispy river]

that's very different

[desert storm]

I see the spell system as more of a minecraft limitation to what could be a good system rather than a robust system that took a decade to build up but I guess that's just a different view to mine

[wispy river]

it's detecting whether the player is sneaking when the spell finishes, not whether they started/stopped sneaking

[rancid thorn]

idk if were playing the same game at this point icl

if casting spells in wynncraft is a chore u may be in the wrong game

[opaque agate]

Yes im aware and I adapt, I have no issues with sneak casting atm

[desert storm]

I will say it is not as bad as before but this is definitely still a tacky and limited system

Not everything I dislike is a chore

No game is perfect and I just see spells as an imperfection

[opaque agate]

I do think wynn is limited by staying vanilla and think it could be improved a lot by moving to modded but I understand their reluctance

[desert storm]

Not a very core part of the game to not play over, very out of the way thing to me honestly

[rancid thorn]

spells arent a very core part of the game to you? 💀

[desert storm]

That'd be like saying I dislike how a secret discovery is done so I must be playing the wrong game

[desert storm]

Not at all, the casting of the spells is nowhere near as core as the spells themselves and everything else about the game

[opaque agate]

W pfp but L take

[wispy river]

but making the base cast be tied to sneaking completely messes with things, and using Sprint for anything is straight up impossible for reasons I will not be pulling up the source code to explain but should be intuitive if you weren't talking out your ass right now.

[opaque agate]

the spells are what makes the game fun to play

[rancid thorn]

the casting of the spells is a massive part of the spells themselves and the spells are in no way comparable to a secret discovery

[desert storm]

A modded requirement would kill the game in 2 years top

[desert storm]

The method of casting is a redundancy and very limited

[opaque agate]

Agree, still love the spells tho

I only use macro unless I cast too fast and drop a click and have to reset

[desert storm]

Nothing about the spells would change with my idea it would simply move onto a new age of casting instead of the same system that was decided a decade ago

[opaque agate]

Yes I was 100% joking about sprint casting becuase I was replying to a message about completely overhauling the cast system to use real hotkeys instead of wynntils macros

which is obviously never going to happen

That being said I still have no issue with Sneak casting, I understand its issues but it hardly affects me and my gameplay loop and I would 100% rather see more spells take advantage of it than not

[rancid thorn]

"nothing about the spells would change with my idea i just want the game to play itself because some people choose to cheat" 😐

[opaque agate]

I would absolutely love "real" hotkeys for spells instead of needing to macro, its just sadly not going to happen

[desert storm]

Some people is an understatement, i surveyed over 1000 players with more than 200 raids completed and there is an over 75% rate of loop macros being used, this will remain anonymous but you simply do not see the issue as well as you think you do

[desert sable]

my issue with sneak casting is that it forces me to stop in my tracks, especially with 1.21.4 removing the sprinting while shifting bug, cause yknow, shifting slows you down

[wispy river]

OSU! but you don't need to click

[opaque agate]

Yeah that is annoying so I try to keep Sneak casts to be done midair

or jump then sneak cast

[desert sable]

as an acro player i can't do that bc of sneak to fall fast 😭 i understand what you mean tho

[opaque agate]

sounds like pain (I havent played acro after the big rework)

I liked the idea someone mentioned in the Bmonk thread where casting spells in order would proc a new affect/spell though

[rancid thorn]

i dont have time to go through every statistical and epistemological way this is almost certainly complete bullshit but the most simple thing i can say is if u dont have a source i am not taking random ass numbers lmao

[opaque agate]

like instead of click combos its a spell combo

if you upercut then scream, that would be a 5th spell

and so on with the other combinations
prob would only work on bmonk tho

[honest turret]

I surveyed 200 raiders and all of them said they don't use loop macros. My data is more reliable trust me

[desert storm]

It's obvious to see you're just blind to how many people in your parties are macroing since the appeal process requires players to rat each other out

The survey was just to affirm an idea i already saw happening

And it added up perfectly to the problem

[honest turret]

Alright you caught me, I've been raiding with a loop macro, I'm part of the 75%

[opaque agate]

"I surveyed 100 people to see if they like surveys or not, suprisingly I got 100% yes"

obv nobody is going to admit to it

[wispy river]

resorting to stright up lying now?

[desert storm]

They would because im a trustworthy person

[rancid thorn]

im well aware of the prevalence of looping macros, its especially egregious on lbs and in graids where its harder to be stumbled across, many lb players are blatantly looping, even still the assertation that over 750/1000 people youve "surveyed" are looping macroing is completely absurd, there arent even many places wynn related with a traffic of a thousand people

[opaque agate]

the thread is wraps, ggs

[honest turret]

Technically, saying, "I surveyed 200 wynncraft players" doesn't mean all 200 responded, it simply means they were prompted with a survey. Usually, surveys also include the % of people who responded.

[shadow mist]

I dont agree with this post because i want to play mortar 🥺

[desert storm]

Its all friends and personal connections, i didnt survey random people

[opaque agate]

more ritu nerfs for you

[honest turret]

You know 1000 people???

[desert storm]

Counting mutuals that trust me yes

[desert sable]

thats such a sick idea lol sad its gonna get buried in this thread, unless that bmonk thread is recent

[honest turret]

That's a lot of people

[honest turret]

Make thread about it

[cerulean bay]

duats video is like the biggest fallacy bait ever "because it happened once it will happen time and time forever"

[rancid thorn]

1. even assuming this is real your sample is insanely skewed now, this is no longer a valid representation of the raid pool

2. how the hell do you expect me to believe you know/ are mutuals with a thousand people

[desert sable]

i don't play bmonk so i don't have any opinion on it, so it would just be that basic idea, and then its just a suggestion post instead of a feedback

[opaque agate]

#1358547330919432343 message

[honest turret]

I think it's just more of a show that if it happens once, it can happen again

[desert sable]

oh ty

[cerulean bay]

even if it doesn't happen once it can happen

[wispy river]

Lightbender is actually a fair argument in support of Marcos being a problem

[honest turret]

Good point, hopefully it does get brought up on it's own then by someone who plays it

[desert storm]

1. This is not skewed as 1000 is a sufficient pool

2. I'm very well connected more than most players

1000 given the criteria no less

[opaque agate]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-bait-or-fact-call-it-jjba-gif-4462961719630139709

[rancid thorn]

dude take a stats course it will greatly improve your ability to lie about shit like this

[desert storm]

Well that's just rude

[desert sable]

i just checked the bmonk thread and the one who had the idea was a CT themselves so we're good
we bing chilling

[cerulean bay]

"all it takes is like 1 bad mod to start banning everyone so we should get rid of all of our mods" is a bit of an exaggeration but the point kinda still stands

[honest turret]

Yes, but seeing it happen and actually experience it lets players KNOW it can happen. It's a psychological thing, but I understand what you're saying.

[honest turret]

That's good

[wispy river]

I have dozens of leaderboard raiders and pillars of the community friended

[opaque agate]

guess who said this btw @desert sable

[wispy river]

you are lying @desert storm, just stop

[rancid thorn]

as someone who knows most ppl on every raid lb i have never met this mfer in my life

[desert storm]

I absolutely do not befriend leaderboard players and pillars of communities lmao

[wispy river]

those are the people who actually know the state of the game

[desert storm]

I like to stay away from people with too much time on their hands

[cerulean bay]

ye I get what you mean it's just like very 😐 when people put so little trust in mods and present a single incident of someone being falsely punished in recent history

[honest turret]

I think there's only one person here that actually thinks that. Everyone else seems pretty reasonable towards mods. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain this isn't a popular thought process

[desert storm]

They would never tell you a truth that's for sure

[cerulean bay]

it's probably not popular I'm pretty sure it's just a loud minority thing

[wispy river]

share the poll link then

[desert sable]

um sombody thats not CT and has the "i'm new here" tag, baseless claim, plus during the acrobat rework plenty of non-concrete sentances were fulfilled

[wispy river]

show a single screenshot from before now of you sharing the poll with someone

[opaque agate]

I mean ive seen how some mods handle things and I can't say im the biggest fan

[desert storm]

Like im gonna rat out everyone i know or make it a poll link

[honest turret]

Seems like the case. I feel like players and mods have a relatively good connection

[wispy river]

get even one person to back you up
if you know 1000

[honest turret]

Right, but are you actively against all mods?

[desert storm]

I ask them to share me a file and if they use it y/n then read through the file

If the file looks to add up thats s tick up

[opaque agate]

ofc not, ive met many nice and understanding mods but I do take caution

[honest turret]

This guy is file grabbing wynnsters LOL

[rancid thorn]

dude your methods of data collection are so fucked up i wouldnt even accept this if it wasnt a lie 😭

[wispy river]

ping one of those people, just one out of 1000

[opaque agate]

[desert storm]

No im not ratting anyone out over somebody with trust issues

[honest turret]

That's understandable, but you can't apply a few situations to the majority. Be cautious is reasonable in my opinion.

[cerulean bay]

ye I understand how one bad experience can sour the whole batch

[desert sable]

i don't know who that is 😭

[surreal pasture]

can someone teach me how to raid

[desert sable]

walk forwards then afk every now and then

[rancid thorn]

no idea sorry champ

[wispy river]

how is this ratting them out? they're just verifying that your poll is real.

[honest turret]

"Trust issues"

Look, everyone I've met haven't been using loop macros. If you don't believe me, then you have trust issues, why should I have to back up my claims with evidence?

[surreal pasture]

:((

[desert storm]

I dont tell them its for polling its involuntary

[rancid thorn]

surely a closer mutual who said no would be willing to affirm what u said 😭

??????

[honest turret]

Woah, involuntary????

[desert storm]

Ok sure

Theyre asleep right now, id have to explain what I need them to affirm in real time

[wispy river]

you got 1000 people to send you a file about their raid macro experience, involuntarily?

[honest turret]

This guy is ripping the files out of their hands and saying, "let me read ts"

[desert storm]

So this wont work for exactly this moment

[desert storm]

No i pretend to want it for personal use obviously im not a moron .

[desert storm]

They would NEVER tell yoy

[honest turret]

Something just popped inside my head. Maybe I'm the moron for not understanding this.

[wispy river]

get a single fucking person to join this thread and back you up my brother

[desert storm]

All asleep!

[honest turret]

How do you know? I think you just have trust issues

[desert storm]

Cause imma experienced player

[wispy river]

timezone bias, your results aren't fair

[rancid thorn]

i have AWEFUL news for you

[honest turret]

I'm also an experienced player

[surreal pasture]

wait what is this edn drip guy's arguement

[wispy river]

awful*

[surreal pasture]

what is he tryna prove? can someone catch me up

[honest turret]

A comedian

[honest turret]

He claimed 75% of users, out of 1000 people he surveyed, admitted they are using loop macros

[rancid thorn]

bro has alledgedly interviewed a thousand raid players with over 200 raids and they reported 75% of them were looping macroing

[surreal pasture]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[honest turret]

LMFAO

[rancid thorn]

LMFAO

[surreal pasture]

is this guy for real no way gang HAHAHHAHAHAHAA

[desert storm]

The awful news would be me being a modern day socrates surrounded by the people of ancient times

[shadow mist]

wow

[rancid thorn]

im expecting the "i was rage baiting the whole time" any minute now

[honest turret]

Alright now it's gotta be a troll

[rancid thorn]

i honestly dont mind i am getting such a kick out of this

[surreal pasture]

bro this gotta be ragebait fr

[honest turret]

I don't even play, this shit is great though

[wispy river]

what's your ign?

[desert storm]

Ive not rage baited since 2022 i was born again under the grace of the lord well over a year ago by now

[shadow mist]

The court jester

[desert storm]

Good110

[surreal pasture]

maybe he spell loops himself! ban him!

[rancid thorn]

ok thats a good one lowk LFMAO

[wispy river]

you're not even an EDn member

[rancid thorn]

hje got us i cant even lie

[desert storm]

I have admin in the server thats enough

[rancid thorn]

this was a peak performance

[honest turret]

There are 1136 players on wynncraft right now, peak hours is probably 2000, so he knows around half of the active player base

[surreal pasture]

citied ban me im spelll looping

[wispy river]

peak

[rancid thorn]

TYPE SHII

[honest turret]

But not a single one of the 250 people who said no are awake right nke

[desert storm]

I included banned and old players

[honest turret]

THAT'S AN INVALID SURVEY THEN LAMO

[desert storm]

No because the bans were for duping so its an external factor

[wispy river]

get literally anyone you know to come back you up, I don't care how irrelevant they are

[honest turret]

Bless your heart

[surreal pasture]

can u teach me how to spell loop

[shadow mist]

why are we still continuing

[rancid thorn]

everything they have said about the survey says it is invalid they cant even lie about it well 😭

yeah no like this is peak ragebait icl u just need to take a stats course and figure out how to make it more believable

[desert storm]

Aight bro, when they wake up I'll fetch you to watch the admission in real time

Gonna stage it like a public gathering in medieval times

[honest turret]

That's true, involuntarily getting their files isn't much of a survey. Which is also funny because he got files from banned and old players, so what exactly was he looking at LOL

[desert sable]

the yapanomics measured in this thread have reached the highest point of stonks i've ever witnessed 🤭

[desert storm]

It was voluntary as i requested it?

[desert storm]

I dont like raids too much

[honest turret]

You said it was involuntary LOL

[rancid thorn]

you are an artist

[wispy river]

@minor nimbus Hello random [EDn] Chief who's currently online on Wynncraft, is this pathological liar really one of yours?

[desert storm]

No thats against the rules i dont know nor do i distribute sources be serious

[honest turret]

Because you are "not a moron"

[wispy river]

then why would you poll 1000 people about them macroing in raids?

[desert storm]

Entry to survey is involuntary

But being data collected was voluntary

[rancid thorn]

wild how in spite of never meeting the person u pinged i have 2 mutuals with them, almost like theyre actually involved in the community or something 😭

[torn jewel]

huh

[desert storm]

Because it was where i assumed it most prominent as per what i saw in game

[honest turret]

"You have no choice but to enter my survey 😠"

[desert storm]

I dont tell them i entered data

I move on like a normal person because i dont need anything further for my collection

[minor nimbus]

what the hell

did i walk in on

[torn jewel]

yap session

ig

[honest turret]

Let me write this out

You went to 1000 people and said, "hey, can you send me your files for wynncraft so I can fix something" and they just gave it??

[desert storm]

Something like that sure

[wispy river]

I HAVE 3 LMAO

[desert storm]

I dont befriend people on discord anyhow thats corny ^^

[unkempt zephyr]

even if they did some people use external mods

[surreal pasture]

can u interview me too! im a raider i think

[rancid thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/homeless-guy-typing-keyboard-funny-gif-1916582789416058464

[honest turret]

As a human being, the last thing I'm doing is dropping files, so I'm gonna assume it's not real people thst were surveyed

[desert storm]

All entered

[sudden bronze]

There was an actual point in a hero beta for 2.1, i believe, where either lag or some bug was causing there to be a CPS cap of like 8 and it was interfering with manual casting

it was by far the worst feeling i have ever experienced in wynn because even if you were manual casting it was insanely easy to hit the CPS cap because you were using 2 buttons to cast 💀

[wispy river]

is drip an admin in your guild discord?

[trail stratus]

wtflip the rotmg -> wynncraft pipeline is real

[surreal pasture]

please interview me!!!!

[honest turret]

Oo oo me next!!!

[desert storm]

I dont interview people

[unkempt zephyr]

please interview me

[surreal pasture]

WHat??

[honest turret]

I know, I can become not human please

[surreal pasture]

please intervbiew me im an animal

[honest turret]

I denounce my humanity in order to be one of your subjects please let me be interviewee

[rancid thorn]

please interview me! i am very normal and can be trusted with sensative polling data!

[desert storm]

Sure -w- i really enjoyed talking with you and would love to learn more about you and share with the community, please send me a friend request and a DM so that we may discuss and plan this at a later date ^^

[desert storm]

No thanks

[unkempt zephyr]

wow I would be honored to be interviewed by someone of your status

[honest turret]

Okay I think he only interviews people who have anime girl pfps

[desert storm]

No i just like breeze

[honest turret]

Time to change it up, anime pfp incoming

[wispy river]

I have an anime girl pfp, please interview me uwu

[desert storm]

Moet people here are hostile and rude to my statements and or are rage baiting me

[honest turret]

LOOK

[desert storm]

Logicalspaghetti was especially rude and hostile..

[wispy river]

Did you give me a reason not to be? owo?

[honest turret]

People simply ask for proof, and you have not provided 🤪 ! That is not rage bait

[honest turret]

W owo, definitely feeling cutesie rn

[surreal pasture]

Please give proof!

[desert storm]

I cant figure out how to find the member list on discord but here u go

[sudden bronze]

wow this whole chat is just this drip guy lying for like ever about the funniest thing this is awesome

[surreal pasture]

hahahahaha

[sudden bronze]

what a wonderful read

[honest turret]

Every now and then there needs to be a feedback thread like this

[desert storm]

w< well that'd have to start with a little more cordial communication

[honest turret]

Keeps the community alive

[sudden bronze]

this is true this is the way the community goes on

some person comes in, lies off their ass for a while, everybody gets a good chuckle and we move on

[honest turret]

I bet tomorrow there will be so many productive feedback threads, people will feel rejuvenated again

[desert storm]

Quite frankly no threads since 2022 have had as much positive impact on the game since i was banned from making them

[sudden bronze]

LOL

[blissful onyx]

wait what happened with rete

[honest turret]

LMFAOO

[desert storm]

But go on, a broken clock strikes correctly twice a day

[sudden bronze]

please return to us, o fabled Thread Maker!

[honest turret]

You are a funny man

[wispy river]

a broken clock doesn't strike, though

[rancid thorn]

dude i always say this, actual feedback is great and all but pure unbridgled bullshit mixed with drama and ragebait is the most entertaining shit ever

[wispy river]

it just, happens to align

[regal elbow]

I see you haven't been around for the last time they lowered it to just 10 (or 8? idk, they lowered by 2 cps), wynn was unplayable for like a few days, until they reversed it due to the massive pushback

[honest turret]

The prophecy FORTOLD of the return of the might threader. EVERYONE, bow before the mighty presence of [EDn] drip (aka good1130)

[honest turret]

It really is, it reminds me of the good ol' days with the LB threads

[sudden bronze]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1036586382233194496/1333425030503202826/ezgif-499d494334b63.gif

[desert storm]

I wont lay off my first message in this thread however i will say that perhaps i shouldnt have indulged with rage baiters so much... alas ive met many new players and i hope your experience on wynn as you progress to level 105 is as exciting as mine was

[honest turret]

I need his return ASAP

[surreal pasture]

good luck spell looper!

[sudden bronze]

thanks im still level 68

[surreal pasture]

can u teach me how to raid edn drip??? sensei

[rancid thorn]

so fucking real, rip to the goat

[honest turret]

I could use help leveling my first account if you don't mind :3 uwu x3 rawr nya~

[sudden bronze]

wanna learn groot with me i havent raided before

[surreal pasture]

ya sure! ill be on adventurer's set

[desert storm]

I have a few tips n tricks up my sleeve, if you need advice from an obviously far more experienced player do feel free to shoot me a DM!

[sudden bronze]

thanks!

[strange patio]

i love you good110

[desert storm]

I love you too endevorent

[opaque agate]

[wispy river]

amazing discussion

[honest turret]

So much progress was made today

[desert storm]

You know, despite my somewhat unkind words it was really nice meeting you, Spaghetti 😄

[wispy river]

I can feel it, next patch is going to be flawless thanks to today

[surreal pasture]

is this a good weapon?

[wispy river]

0 bugs, perfect balance

[desert storm]

Actually its because of a thread I have in the works

[desert sable]

this is what i feel sometimes xD

[desert storm]

I cant post it however, youll have to guess which thread posted in the next 3 days was written/cowritten by me.

[honest turret]

Oh shit... the goat is about to make his return since 2022... I'm quivering in excitement.

[rancid thorn]

we are in for next level ragebait this week

[wispy river]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807809192537882647/1357981050235785287/togif-1.gif

[surreal pasture]

quivering

[rancid thorn]

eating like kings 💪

[real jay]

[torn jewel]

people use it for tna void holes apparently

lol

[desert storm]

Its pretty good but the aspect does plenty of heavy lifting for warrior

[surreal pasture]

ya

[torn jewel]

when they have both farsighted and near gambits

[rancid thorn]

this should be illegal btw

[cerulean bay]

it's currently 10 and I was around for that

[torn jewel]

?

[rancid thorn]

far and near sighted at the same time 😭

[torn jewel]

oh

yeah prob

[rancid thorn]

LOL

[regal elbow]

yea idk how much was it exactly, I just know it was lowered by 2

[torn jewel]

idt its as big of a deal to make a fuss internally though tbh

[regal elbow]

and it got reversed

[torn jewel]

it wasnt purposefully lowered

pretty sure

there was an issue that caused it to be lower than it was supposed to be

[rancid thorn]

nah wdym apparently over 75% of the raid playerbase is looping macroing this is a huge deal

[torn jewel]

nice horrendous faith argument

youve gone well past bad faith 😭

[wispy river]

@torn jewel

[desert storm]

If the moderators had a clue party finder would never show above medium queue time...

[rancid thorn]

@torn jewel 😏

[wispy river]

it seems to be a bigger issue then the mods realize

[spiral raptor]

INSANE AMOUNT OF CAP LMAO

[rancid thorn]

it would seem looping macroing is far worse than we could ever have feared

[torn jewel]

That isn't even what I was responding to in the slightest

That's why it's a bad faith argument

[spiral raptor]

cap for no reason too gng you aint no mc scientist bro

[torn jewel]

I was responding to this being blocked from happening

[rancid thorn]

oh i mean im just fucking around i have no idea what you were talking about nor do i have anything wrong with what youre saying

[torn jewel]

😭

[honest turret]

LOL

[torn jewel]

Case in point

[desert storm]

I'm the closest thing to one if there were such a profession if you were curious, take someone like tesla who was never recognized nor boasted about his achievements until he passed away

[surreal pasture]

hwo bout toyota

[spiral raptor]

u lying bro show the interviews ng

[surreal pasture]

how bout porsche gt3 rs

[desert storm]

But please, bring no matter attention to my survey as it may cause me issues in future data collection and would derail the discussion at hand, thank you!

[spiral raptor]

you dont got no survey gng cap

[desert storm]

Read below, all anonynous and none were a proper interview process, i will be blocking you now.

[spiral raptor]

you prob have 200comps

[opaque agate]

https://tenor.com/view/vro-pmo-ngl-gif-10268498521266426722

[desert sable]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-slamming-card-on-table-gif-21126320

show your scientific papers on minecraft now

[desert storm]

Nikola tesla.

[surreal pasture]

how bout nissan 350z

[sudden bronze]

💀

[spiral raptor]

he rage baiting gng lmao

[desert storm]

The inventor of the light bulb if you weren't taught that in school

[opaque agate]

Pretty sure that was Obama

[spiral raptor]

elon musk invented that gng

[wispy river]

there were dozens

[sudden bronze]

thank you for sharing that you're a genius with the constructive feedback posts

the world shall know your name now!

[surreal pasture]

i thoughjt trump did

[wispy river]

Tesla, Edison, and many others all invented some form of the light bulb within months of each other

[sudden bronze]

lmfao

[rancid thorn]

i dont like teslas gas cars are better

[desert sable]

auto i'd like to say you are too because you genuinely think out your feedback and post full on essays.
ok ok i'll stop glazing now 😭

[sudden remnant]

we should ban single spell macros and make the cps cap like 24 itd be so good for the health of my wrist

[opaque agate]

Just like Newton and Leibniz!!!!

[surreal pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/duke-dennis-amp-dennis-duke-durag-duke-gif-4720620908800581196

[wispy river]

fax on Gobb my guy

[sudden bronze]

🥹

[surreal pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/fr-ong-gif-24731885

[desert sable]

[wispy river]

@sudden bronze

[desert storm]

I was lying, I didn't block the @spiral raptor account as I'm too shaky and anxious about what people think of me and I'm very insecure. This account is obviously an alt made for rage baiting and should be banned, only reason I don't report this is because I have far too many ongoing reports of high significance to be diluting them with an alt account report, I hope this fact is made known to everyone in this chat.

[desert sable]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-shadow-shadow-the-hedgehog-shadow-absolute-cinema-gif-11357734032629135578

[spiral raptor]

na bro he rage baiting fr LMAO

[surreal pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/are-you-kidding-me-lies-bruh-really-dont-do-it-gif-13330238

[spiral raptor]

i havent even said anything against rules lil bro

[opaque agate]

watch it

[spiral raptor]

what did i say

[tired sigil]

What’s happening here

[opaque agate]

https://tenor.com/view/look-stare-face-mean-bruh-gif-27645430

[desert sable]

erm i think [EDn] was being satire

[opaque agate]

dont disrespect my goat

[spiral raptor]

mb gng

imma learn ma place

[opaque agate]

fs non

[desert storm]

No this guy joined the server on march 7th and is clearly speaking like a wannabe gangster and appropriating AAVE whilst also making bad faith arguments and trolling, this is not a real player and they must be punished accordingly for being a ban evasion account

[desert sable]

oh im socially illiterate then(already knew this abt myself :((... ) lol

[spiral raptor]

wannabe gangster is insane

[spiral raptor]

mb bro

[surreal pasture]

nah bruh this guy has to get banned

[desert storm]

It's alright, I'm also a little autistic myself so it's hard to read social cues over text at times 💙

[desert sable]

i don't wanna be a part of you two's discourse, ill still chat in the thread but i dont wanna risk anything

[marble pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-emoji-nerd-meme-radar-gif-26497624

[desert storm]

Absolutely he's definitely a terrible contribution to the server's health

[surreal pasture]

imeant u

[desert sable]

ok the blue heart makes you actually sound satire right now
I CANNOT LIE

[desert storm]

For what reason

[sudden bronze]

😭

[desert storm]

Oh sorry, I didn't mean it that way I just don't like using tone indicators as they have been used as a way to mock people in this server far too many times, I am completely serious yes

[desert sable]

aight i got it

chill 😭 oh they deleted the mesaage nvm

[desert storm]

What was it I thought it was just a minion eating popcorn

[desert sable]

it was exactly that

[opaque agate]

[desert sable]

ngl this convo is going nowhere

[sudden bronze]

wdym we get to learn about the legend that is [EDn] drip

[desert sable]

TRUE i meant the original thread's topic

[desert storm]

Yeah my summary of the matter is
Multi spell macros are undetectable and highly used so the only solution to that part of the overall issue this thread discusses is to add an ability for vanilla players to cast just as fast abiding by the server's cps limit

I'll be taking my leave as to not derail any further, 👋

[spiral raptor]

you gotta be the smartest wynn player on bro

[surreal pasture]

u sayin like about 30 thousand players using it ye ? aight

[desert sable]

"player on wynn bro"*** ☝️🤓

[spiral raptor]

let me see them survey's before you go gng

[rancid thorn]

more like a billion... its worse than we thought

[surreal pasture]

O My GOD

[rancid thorn]

😱

[desert sable]

i use single spell macros just bc casting RLL feels very weird on my hand xD

[sudden bronze]

You are very proficient at making things up, well done! I look forward to more lying in the future.

[desert sable]

its like my fingers themselves have a cps limit

[torn jewel]

erm

[desert sable]

i have no idea what the edn situation is

[torn jewel]

just get better fingers

lol?

[eager flax]

one of the posts of all time

[desert sable]

https://tenor.com/view/ohhh-duh-why-didnt-i-think-of-that-gif-21849807

[eager flax]

absolute cinema

[spiral raptor]

fr

[torn jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-cat-absolute-cinema-cat-gif-8724746330989628604

[rancid thorn]

the looping macro situation is crazy......

[desert sable]

sounds like a CNN news report

[surreal pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/jurassic-park-shades-omg-cant-believe-gif-10277190

[surreal pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/mcjuggernuggets-chillout-gif-9568957628594437754

[desert sable]

oh that reference 💀

[spiral raptor]

edn drip aka wynn scientist has surveyed over 1000 wynncraft raiders and concludes that 75% of them use looping macros

[surreal pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/ogli-gif-17468683305861986751

[eager flax]

I can confirm this statistic is accurate

[desert sable]

how does one even conclude on that, like i said bc of spell cycles its near impossible to tell looping macros from allowed gameplay 🤷

[rancid thorn]

@sudden bronze

[spiral raptor]

he a nikola tesla of wynn gng

[surreal pasture]

he is just fulll of shit

[eager flax]

nope hes correct

[desert sable]

TRUE 🤔

[desert sable]

just like your type

ok thats not funny 😭

[eager flax]

i have peer reviewed his study and concluded that 75% of users with >200 raidcount are using looping macros. And meteor client for that matter

[spiral raptor]

fr

[desert sable]

HOLD UP how do looping macros work exactly

[opaque agate]

making a macro that casts 2+ spells

[desert sable]

are they customizable

[opaque agate]

yea

[desert sable]

ok wtf am i saying ofc they are lol
for some reason i thought they weren't and if so then you'll be able to rule out players who cast spell cycles that looping macros wouldn't, but i was just schizophrenic for a second

[spiral raptor]

EDN drip rn

[marble pendant]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1263355871824576615/1330046968939941938/togif.gif

[trail stratus]

freshx2 nice astal changes

[trail stratus]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1251433487152709713/1299461940019466362/watermark.gif

[sudden bronze]

the gig is up boys

[rancid thorn]

they caught me 🙌

[sudden bronze]

was fun while it lasted

[desert sable]

and the other 25% are freedom morph sharpshooters!

[eager flax]

yeah i know him irl he looks like that

[eager flax]

Yes!

[desert sable]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

[spiral raptor]

fr fr?

[eager flax]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-dog-brian-dog-cooked-wallahi-im-finished-cooked-dog-gif-1849480349705279416

[cerulean bay]

I'm stealing this

[maiden flume]

yes finally something to level the playing field! i have locked-in syndrome and got beat over the head multiple times as a child so i too can’t click at 10-12 cps. glad to see someone finally standing up for us!

[sudden bronze]

LMFAO 😭

[rancid thorn]

this guy wins the thread icl

[desert sable]

https://tenor.com/view/blackbeard-blackbeard-writing-taking-notes-writing-gif-17583038544116987898

[restive dagger]

When I was a mod and the whole macro thing was first starting I said if it was allowed it would stop being 'ohh ahh me hand hurt need accessability 😢' and become a huge amount of players casting at WAY higher spells per second than average under the guise of accessability

[cerulean bay]

that's what I'm saying

well more like I'm pointing out the issue instead of anticipating it

[restive dagger]

I am extremely against macros, I am 100% sorry to hear your hand hurts, but why does that mean you get an input thats 3x fast

I'd say limit macro cps (rather than all cps) as a rule, but like dude i stg the amonut of people who would report other people they dont like would be crazy

[mellow shoal]

HSB situation in question

[cerulean bay]

limiting macro cps is hard to regulate brobably

[trail stratus]

3x faster with a cap at 10 cps = 3 cps this is very hard to hit by the way

[restive dagger]

also doesn't minecraft flat out limit you at 20 cps / ~6 spells a second (yes you can click faster but server doesn't care)

[trail stratus]

idt macros are the only thing at fault for current meta it's mostly shit like instant spells like backstab spin (when tricko was real) uppercut meteor things that can be spammed out with impunity and ability tree mana printing is also to blame

[restive dagger]

i haven't finished reading this but yeah true

as in yeah true i hate everyone

[cerulean bay]

macros aren't entirely at fault but they are one very prevalent issue

[mellow shoal]

One of the three most irredeemable wynncraft players in thread.,,

[jolly inlet]

maybe make spells that dont just do damage based on how fast you can mash them

[restive dagger]

Its one of those things where its like I feel people talk around it, nah bluntly people abuse a system originally allowed for disability

[maiden flume]

i’ve never done anything wrong

[restive dagger]

whats funny is more and more of these get removed over time

[jolly inlet]

wynncraft spellcasting is just a little cooked

[restive dagger]

Also, reminder, arrow storm without nighthawk shouldn't be spammed (:

All arrows take 1.0 seconds to release, casting it before it finishes resets it!!!

[mellow shoal]

Actually add the acro rework to every class so you have to charge up for your spells to do anything

[maiden flume]

guys what if we make it so everyone can cast one spell for five seconds

[jolly inlet]

its simple but 3 inputs 1 spell causes a pretty shit system to do anything

especially when there are classes that like

[trail stratus]

what are the examples of this

because the only one that i can think of was the great cbomb slaughter of 2024

[restive dagger]

old meteor reset if you cast it

Arrow bomb did, idk if it still does

[trail stratus]

oh you're talking about the other way around

[mellow shoal]

please no more things to murder rift

[restive dagger]

arrow shield rain gets reset if you cast shield (lol)

[trail stratus]

ofc arrow bomb resets that's like the main thing about it

[jolly inlet]

they should just allow macros who cares at this point 😭

[restive dagger]

Huge disagree

[maiden flume]

bring back 20 mill dps warring

[jolly inlet]

make some modification integration serverside so that spellcasting macros actually work well

[tired sigil]

I don’t think 20m dps possible anymore

[cerulean bay]

it does but grape bombs dont

[trail stratus]

(this, of course, makes spellsharp lose dps the longer range you're righting at)

[maiden flume]

💔

[eager flax]

Erm… fuy gets 150m dps…

[jolly inlet]

or make single button do 1 spell and just call it a day

[sudden bronze]

i agree please let me do 45 cps for free

WTF THE MESSAGE GOT DELETED

[tired sigil]

Only believing this if I see a video of exactly 150m dps

[sudden bronze]

@maiden flume they are silencing you!

[mellow shoal]

Is there even a way to reasonably do this with minecraft inputs

[trail stratus]

while we're at it make sfast +1 have no attack cooldown for funsies of course

[maiden flume]

that’s what i’m saying

[jolly inlet]

serverside modification integration

[mellow shoal]

tstack is saved!

[maiden flume]

nobody cares that essentuan lost his hands…… what a horrible community

[jolly inlet]

but also yes there are several keybinds that are pretty much jsut unused

[cerulean bay]

alternate universe where wynncraft spells are 2 inputs rr rl r space r crouch

[desert storm]

And it just so happens I have a report active on every single fuy member pending investigation/filing ha ha. Good luck hitting 150mil once you have no more members able to access the server.

[jolly inlet]

like drop and swap hands

[mellow shoal]

MORE CROUCH INPUTS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trail stratus]

tstack alka is real nowadays

[cerulean bay]

well drop is used to drop items

[trail stratus]

not meta. but real at the very least as in not a horrible idea

[tired sigil]

This actually made me laugh lmao

[jolly inlet]

could just make weapons undroppable

not like youre going to cast spells with an emerald anyways

[eager flax]

monumenta💔

[desert storm]

Drop bind needs to have an integral ingame use nobody should have it bound as it stands

[cerulean bay]

facts

[maiden flume]

while we’re at it i know that those ironman btw HICH alts are macroing. how else would they get 800k dps across two catas with consumables?

[cerulean bay]

swap hands is also like relatively new to wynncraft and only recently got any functionality at all

[maiden flume]

filthy dirty macroers everywhere!

[jolly inlet]

exactly

perfect time to use it for spells

when theres barely any functionality in it so you dont just fuck everything up

[errant lava]

you could rework the other spells that do not feel so "competitive"

[desert storm]

Swap hands macro toggle will happen within the next 5 years mark my words

[maiden flume]

hello wolf iron

[mellow shoal]

11 snake arcanist returns

[jolly inlet]

or idk just add an in game spell cycler gg

[errant lava]

Hi atch of ziens

[sudden bronze]

I will mark them as incorrect

[maiden flume]

next time U pull up to a world event with that build i’m gonna show up at your house with a weapon ☝️ i’ll show you damage per second

[rancid thorn]

minus five points

[desert storm]

Oh you'll be adding TWO checkmarks next to the statement in your notepad after it happens

[mellow shoal]

@ moderator JohnBleu this user sent me a death threat.,,

I'm fearinf for my life rn .

[maiden flume]

Your honor in my defense he deserves it . look at him

[polar wind]

wholesome

please do this

[tired sigil]

When will people show up at my house

[mellow shoal]

what I do to you gott damn!!!

[polar wind]

brazil

[desert storm]

On my way for barbeceque :)

[polar wind]

Idk who u are but i think it would be funny if it happened

[sudden bronze]

lmfao

[maiden flume]

aethei pulling up with the 7k ping spike build. greasy little scheming hands clicking at 10-12 cps. this is why the cap needs to be lowered

[mellow shoal]

5 snakes and a heal is all I need to set your house on fire

[errant lava]

What the hell

[tired sigil]

On ice*

[maiden flume]

i’m outside

[sudden bronze]

so ableist

[maiden flume]

U r just mad because i don’t have to pay for heating in the winter

i just hold my hands over my pc after turning particles onto all

[eager flax]

If the cps cap isn’t lowered to 6 by tomorrow morning I’m gonna crash TF out

[maiden flume]

but holy shit u know the thread is ass when Jesus H. Nerd Emoji nagisa streams shows up to say something about “back in his day”

[eager flax]

😭 😭

[maiden flume]

Exactly. if i can’t click at a human rate no one should be able to.

[cerulean bay]

good morning guild community

[eager flax]

goodnight guild community

[maiden flume]

hi borpus >_<

[cerulean bay]

do I know u

[eager flax]

hi man

[maiden flume]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-dog-brian-dog-cooked-wallahi-im-finished-cooked-dog-gif-1849480349705279416

[sudden bronze]

do not disrespect the goat

[eager flax]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-dog-brian-dog-cooked-wallahi-im-finished-cooked-dog-gif-1849480349705279416

[tired sigil]

Why does this dog is staring at my soul

[cerulean bay]

pontosaurus is the goat

[rancid thorn]

good morning usa i have a feeliung that its gonna be a wonderful day the sunin the sky has a smile on its face and its shinign a salut to the american race oh boy its swell to say good morning USA!!!!!

[mellow shoal]

pontosaurus repost if you love pontosaurus gif

[eager flax]

why tf you smiling? fineee shyttt don’t want you

[cerulean bay]

https://tenor.com/view/pontosaurus-wynncraft-ironman-btw-hich-join-hich-gif-25690592

[mellow shoal]

that's what I'm talkin' bout!!

[eager flax]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1093409085921165352/1358493439242539210/temp_image_2E53EB72-A7D9-4A73-BC3F-B5BF4C416681.webp?ex=67f55c9b&is=67f40b1b&hm=74d03bc38508f1e19e9654bfc07657728edf7ecba657036f54b2a64d534db6f4&

[maiden flume]

this is how i play wynncraft and every time i get over 4 cps i get juice

[eager flax]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1358958671975026869/1358999375849721967/jWxqPqH30W5efRMu3zXmylsjIWSBgHfV41f35yv63hMrezifbtoM5gtPhKHtjXRSKMAAAA.png?ex=67f5e24c&is=67f490cc&hm=5ee2d74ed8fb3be651c85b96cde4c72b19426d215e5bb211fcbcf55222250b0b&

[maiden flume]

if i get 10-12 i get shocked at increasingly higher voltages each time because that is way too fast. felony clicking speed

[eager flax]

@winged shale do you agree that users clicking at high speed should experience punishing shocks?

i think that this would be a healthy way to lower the cps cap used by players

[cerulean bay]

if u click too fast u should start sweating in game and be at risk of dropping ur item in hand

[mellow shoal]

every time you breach 4cps -1 raid or LR reward pull

I think this would restore tstack meta in a healthy and enjoyable way

[maiden flume]

you should get 10 public lashings on the hero festival stage in detlas if you breach 7 cps

[cerulean bay]

ok that's enough tom foolery guys

[eager flax]

please lock the thread PLEASE

there is no more value to be gained from this wretched post

[maiden flume]

nooooo borpus donmt lock the thread how else will i advocate for the 2 click per second / physically handicapped community

[cerulean bay]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-meme-war-thunder-war-cat-war-gif-4929875301120562890

[mellow shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-get-real-spongebob-get-real-spongebob-face-spongebob-ugly-gif-13309562138513808785

[desert sable]

HOW DOES ONE GET FASTER i feel disabled 😭

[restive dagger]

what website is this

[maiden flume]

lowkey you kind of are

[tired sigil]

Cpstest.org I think

[eager flax]

Bu Fellow

[mellow shoal]

You're doing so well we're very proud of you atchziens shut the fuck up

[desert sable]

first one that appears if you search "cps test"

[maiden flume]

i’m going to say a swear word………

[eager flax]

Bufello

[restive dagger]

is this enough to do entry level raids??? 🥺

[wispy river]

Join [Ped]

[desert sable]

ty! lol, i'll try butterfly clicking this time and see what happens

[maiden flume]

KILL YOURSELF

[restive dagger]

WHY ISNT THAT FILTERED LMAO

[tired sigil]

Goodbye atch

[cerulean bay]

TRY AGAIN 🔄 If You Got Balls

[eager flax]

valid crashout

[wispy river]

Because kill yourself is necessary for explaining /kill to new players

[desert sable]

i'm never gonna have two fingers on one mouse key but ey its possible

[restive dagger]

only 1/5 my record, noob!

[maiden flume]

why didn’t it automod guys

[desert sable]

[cerulean bay]

I will not act upon this behavior because we are all friends here

[eager flax]

Congratulations, you are officially multi spell macroing. And using meteor client

[wispy river]

Become a [Ped] today!

[desert sable]

nah thats more 3 cps ngl

[cerulean bay]

ok I am going to lock this thread in 5 seconds get in your last messages

[tired sigil]

Balls

[eager flax]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-dog-brian-dog-cooked-wallahi-im-finished-cooked-dog-gif-1849480349705279416

[cerulean bay]

I'm deleting that one for your own safety

locked because thread has outlived it's useful ness

[pure schooner]

i cant believe they would do that

oh this is locked oops

sorry birb