Queue Dodge Timers Suck.

[hard ore]

The Queue dodge timer that exists for raids right now is incredibly annoying and rarely accomplishes its purpose of preventing dodges. The largest application of the dodge timer I have experienced has been during slow hours when my group has been put into EU/AS servers and a queue immediately pops up, prompting someone to have to deny and incur the wait timer which can stack up quite quickly.

The question this begs is why does a non competitive pve game have a queue dodge timer to begin with? In competitive team games queue dodge timers are understandable as they disincentivize leaving games that look unwinnable or other ways of meta gaming the system. Raids in wynn do not have any systems which stand to incentivize leaving lobbies which means anyone who cannot ready up is not doing so maliciously or for personal gain. Im sure once per blue moon the queue dodge timer stops a single guy from readying and unreadying over and over to hold three strangers hostage for like a minute or two but comparing the broader negative impact this has on the average player to the edge cases of abuse this prevents the cost benefit is just nowhere near remotely valid.

I would suggest that in the near future one of two solutions is made to avoid this issue, either

1. Players have the ability to blacklist regions from pfinder queueing preferances

2. Queue dodge timers are eliminated entirely for the above reasons.

[snow moth]

i will proceed to queue pfinder and stall the timer to deny it last second

[hard ore]

was something we talked about but the fact that pfinder keeps people entirely anonymous until you enter the raid means you wouldnt even be able to reaction bait by doing this if youre looking to annoy people there are easier and more effective ways of accomplishing it by far

[marble maple]

Being able to choose which region we queue in in pfinder would be absolutely wonderful

[snow moth]

the fact that it is anonymous means i can do it without people knowing who is doing it. and trolls can read their reactions when they complain in other spaces (discord, shouts, normal chat). due to that i think that removing queue timers isn't a great idea. blacklisting regions however... sounds perfect due to the fact that 1/2 regions will always be worse to play in. I myself don't mind playing in asia servers even with 200ms, but most people would want to not deal with other regions. the fact that it wasn't added on release is surprising, due to the original complaintsof regions and ending in other region's while raiding

[marble maple]

i feel like the fact that there is no reaction nor benefit to people just joining queues and denying them over and over will dissuade anyone from actually trolling that way

even if there was i feel like the current way that it puts you on a timer could be made a lot more lenient

if you deny the queue like 2 times you're like immediately sent into the timer

[waxen vale]

But out of curiosity, what is a reason to deny the queue timer other than pulling someone's leg?

[marble maple]

i mean like. if you accidentally queue into something you dont want to queue into. also /classing when youre in a party of 3/4 people it will also put them into queue which you will obviously want to deny.

[waxen vale]

So, does just canceling a queue cause timer, or do you have to wait the entire queue and then deny it? As for the other half, I have no idea what that means so no comment.

[snow moth]

the second one can be fixed by making the game check if your party has anyone offline

[marble maple]

cancelling the queue at any point will contribute to you being closer to queue timer

[waxen vale]

So if you wait 15 minutes to get a party, and you don't get one so you stop and do something else for a few minutes and reqeue, that counts?

[marble maple]

oh no it only counts if the game finds a party but you deny joining it

[waxen vale]

That doesn't seem all too unreasonable. Accidentally queueing once is one thing, but doing so twice is another

[lofty compass]

Queue penalty existing for raids rn doesn't make that much sense rn since you get instantly queued now, mabue you could apply the queue penalty only kf u leave midgame?

Ocukd also apply to minigames

[waxen vale]

Well the main reason for it's initial existence is because of people queue dodging

[misty atlas]

the queue dodge isn't because there's an advantage to queue dodging

it's to make it factually impossible to troll the queue system by just rejoining and rejection

sending invites to people in the queue and spamming them with the menu repeatedly

queue region limiting is a little questionably implementable

because different people can have theoretically different preferences

also notably your queue expanding to EU/AS does not necessarily mean you will play on those servers.

It just means you can match with people from there, who might get pulled to a server in your region depending on what gives the best ping for the whole party

[marble maple]

it almost always ends up being the case tho cuz only people from EU server can queue from EU initially

so unless you're 3/4 your chances are really high that whatever server your queue expands to is gonna be the one you queue in

[misty atlas]

not necessarily?

[marble maple]

thats my experience with it

[misty atlas]

well that means

the other people would have a worse experience queueing onto one of your servers

[hard ore]

my experience has been if it expands to eu chances are its gonna be an eu server

[marble maple]

like 99% of the time i just dotn want it to expand anyways

whenever it does i just requeue so it goes away

[misty atlas]

maybe that's something to do

click here to disable queue expansion. Doing this nullifies your right to complain of queue times.

[marble maple]

thatd be nice

[misty atlas]

if it reaches the expansion stage there just ain't people on your servers willing to join

[hard ore]

i mean queue times are legit based off play rate i dont think its ever justified to complain abt queue times aside from like sarcastically lol

[misty atlas]

and the server judges your connection to EU isn't bad

[misty atlas]

well there's surprisingly fewer people on wynn making queues just take longer if you harshly split the queue into 3

there are times when NA just doesn't have people coming on

[snow moth]

thats called timezones

[misty atlas]

real!

I don't think preventing queue expansion is logistically feasible given it requires the whole party to agree to not

[snow moth]

party leader could decide

[misty atlas]

eh?

[hard ore]

just adopt settings from party leader this is alr industry standard for like every team based queue system ever

[snow moth]

the choice could be based on if the party leader has this queue expansion on or off

[misty atlas]

i don't think this is the move

[snow moth]

the button could be the raid bull symbol too, to prevent clutter

[misty atlas]

and iirc zeer already said being stubborn on region is unlikely to happen

[marble maple]

i mean the thing is

this can already be accomplished by just requeueing to dodge the region expansion

[snow moth]

what if we get a warning 15 seconds before we add more regions

so you don't get kidnapped (and have to deny) as explained in the post

[misty atlas]

i feel like it should already just be behaviour

that if your ping to another region is actually bad it really avoids expanding to there

[snow moth]

it does expand from most usable region to least usable

from eu i get na, then i get as queues

if you don't want that, we can always unready -> ready

[misty atlas]

idk seems kinda crazy to me

ping difference has been betwen eu and na at worst like 100ms

(in my experience)

i can understand not wanting to be sent to server where you get like 600 ping

[snow moth]

i get 30 on eu, 90 on na, 200 on as

[misty atlas]

or even like 400 but it's geninuely not that crazy a difference

and to actively queue dodge for this seems in all honesty... insane?

i think there can be some valid criticism like maybe queue expands too quickly

[snow moth]

people rely on low ping to dodge or to maximize the cps cap to deal more damage (to end raids faster and more comfortably)

[misty atlas]

but i feel like hardline only my good region or bust is being unnecessarily stubborn

[misty atlas]

if you're doing this with pfinder you're overthinking it

[snow moth]

im not doing this but citied is, and ive seen people being picky about regions since it was released. if people had to choose between quicker matchmaking or better ping it would be leaning towards the second side

[misty atlas]

but this isn't quicker matching

this is you might be waiting for 30 minutes because noone on your region wants to play

queue system already optimises for ping

it just doesn't go hardline best ping for me specifically or bust

because that can choke queues

idk, current queue works for almost all purposes

the behaviour outlined here seems like something you shouldn't be doing, i don't think this is a problem

[glass skiff]

I've experienced this many times, can confirm

Also experienced the opposite

[marble maple]

so we shouldnt be getting automatically expanded into regions we dont want to play in?

like as a choice?

i like exclusively deny queues if it keeps queueing me into regions i dont want to play in

[misty atlas]

what is your ping difference to playing in eu

[marble maple]

like 70ms

[hard ore]

100+

[marble maple]

30 to 100

[misty atlas]

as in this is the ping to eu?

[marble maple]

30 ms NA, 100 ms EU

[misty atlas]

💀

[marble maple]

?

[misty atlas]

yeah idk i don't think that's a good reason to dodge queues

[marble maple]

sorry? i just dont want to bother with that ping

like why would i play on 100 ms when i just dont have to and can have much smoother connection?

[misty atlas]

if everyone acts like this

queue is actually split in 3

[hard ore]

i go from like 15-30 to 130-200ish and it gets way worse it genuinely throws off timings alot and makes an experience unpleasant enough id rather just not bother icl

[glass skiff]

Holding out for 2 man raids

[marble maple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1030196507703513108/1338599255958622248/steam-valve.gif?ex=67f57f34&is=67f42db4&hm=86a39d5c878421148e9c5969127d2de0c78a1c2e22f6991a29445bb177415775& there's a reason why this gif exists :P

(i didnt make it)

[misty atlas]

i don't know maybe i just live in a different world

[marble maple]

possibly

[hard ore]

maybe you play builds that dont need to care abt latency or are just more used to it but thats not everyone

[marble maple]

if there are ways for me to not get worse connection to the game i'm going to do it

if i only queued nol where i'd have to wait 40 minutes per raid that might be a different story

[hard ore]

lowk yeah id rather spend my time doing the stuff im doing while waiting for a queue pop than play through a really low quality game

[rose tangle]

The question this begs is why does a non competitive pve game have a queue dodge timer to begin with?
people kept dodging because rude or whatever and staff (justifiably) didnt like it

[snow moth]

so builds that cap on cps?

[glass skiff]

You mean most classes?

[snow moth]

i mean most meta builds. people do not actually have high cps when playing wynncraft

[hard ore]

uhh mostly like things with timings or lower ehp tbh, divzer watched on 100+ ping is some of the most unfun gameplay ive ever experienced, aco on high ping is obnoxious trying to shatter and then swap masks correctly, or even just stuff with complex cycles like anything with generalist or shade

[glass skiff]

High ping Bloodshatter is pain

You miss one spell and it's over

[thick flare]

clearly the solution is to learn 3 different timings to spell casting like every asians do