Why the upcoming cumulonimbus nerf doesn't make any sense

[sonic aurora]

• 30 skillpoint requirement increase is not something that actually makes sense like 9, 12, or 15 would have (90 was the base, mind you, and the increase percentage is 90 -> 120 = 33% which is a build killing amount.

• seems like they are trying to break build loadouts instead of trying to fix the core issue which was that cumulonimbus saw tons of use in the fallen archetype due to it not needing sustain and cumulo has good damage no mana regen.

• cumulonimbus was only meta for specific archetypes and other archetypes that used it did it for the skillpoints. Raising the skillpoint req this high negates the effectiveness of skillpoints the higher they go. example: an increase of 10 skillpoints from 20 to 30 has a much greater effect versus a skillpoint increase from 30 to 40 due to the bell curve nature of points in this game.

• the helmet already has low enough health and damage and closing off builds as a global solution for a centralized problem to certain archetypes that benefitted the most from the helmet makes no sense.

added like and dislike reacts to post

[slender lintel]

having to fix my builds in most of my classes every other patch is not fun ngl

[vocal dawn]

Instead of nerfing the dmg lets make the item unusable and force current builds to wear blue mask

[vivid rune]

alot of the nerfs in the upcoming patch seem more petty than anything, kera losing 1 scream cost cumu having sp req increased and steamjet losing agi

if these items were catastrophic to game balance surely they would be getting more than a slap on the wrist yet they are barely changing in the actually problematic builds while also becoming way more annoying to do so with, hero fallen sustains like 3 seconds shorter with nerfed kerat cost but still does insane damage, most builds that use cumu dont give a shit about the reqs they exceed them anyways but a couple niche ones are completely broken by it, and steamjet losing sp just seems like its done to break certain builds while not really addressing the issue the util and damage is still gonna be overtuned

[sonic aurora]

every patch im either having to find different items to use or reroll my item to a higher id because why? who knows i dont know.

[vivid rune]

easiest fix is if an item isnt literally ruining the game by existing, only non crucial stats should be adjusted, reqs, sp, and stats tied to sustain (mr cdr and steal) should only be adjusted in the case of an item being seriously overtuned, otherwise just touch damage numbers, kerat couldve lost 20% ad this patch and noone wouldve cared, it wouldve been healthier too, cumu couldve legit lost its spell damage entirely and steamjet couldve lost 5-10% on every damage id but instead we get build breaking and ruined sustain like huh

[vivid rune]

the fact theres no internal roll tracking when its been openly said ruining items is a thing they take into consideration is a bit crazy tbh (we will still add trivial shit to screw up #1s regardless tho xd)

[slender lintel]

and then they will nerf that too just like other rainbow items 😭

[vocal dawn]

Insert the reaper meme leaving morph stardust and cumulimbus, what next helmet is gonna become unusable

[slender lintel]

not just helmets, they nerfed one of my favorite air leggings (dark shroud i think idr the name) during the rainbow nerf, it wasnt even that popular

[sonic aurora]

cumulo was fine i dont understand their logic at all unless they just like throwing fuel on the already burning fire

[vocal dawn]

If the nerfs were only dmg and shit i wouldnt care at all but my 2 builds got hit with -9 and -17 sp

[sonic aurora]

kera is a little more understandable but like you said damage would have made more sense

[vivid rune]

was used in both bp hero and shade weathered which were two oppressively strong builds, cumu deserved a nerf but touching stuff other than damage is just so random, the same builds will still run it and not evne notice the like 10% its losing or less idr

[chrome harness]

easiest solution, bring back weapon tomes

[silent agate]

me when i lie

[slender lintel]

whats the lie here?

[silent agate]

this lol

[slender lintel]

oh

[silent agate]

weapon tomes were AWFUL for game balance

[vivid rune]

tbh i agree base stats on tomes was a stupid idea to begin with, mqde balancing for veteran vs new players nearly impossible (aspects are kinda the same but worse rn but gg)

[dapper karma]

instead of nerfing things that are good how about buff things that are bad

[vocal dawn]

Toxo

[vivid rune]

this just makes powercreep, the builds that were hit are still going to be way too strong its just that their qol was hurt more than their effectiveness

[silent agate]

yeahh

powercreep is an issue too

[vivid rune]

not to menrion if the baseline was raised nearly as high as the meta is rn raidbosses would need like a 400% hp increase to not just explode instantly

i wish that was an exaggerated number

[slender lintel]

like a lot of others said, just nerfing the base stats instead of increasing the requirement would just be better imo

[sonic aurora]

you are talking about the team meta right? one arcanist and a riftbender stack?

its kind of crazy how just having someone in your party can extremely buff eachother to 700k dps in some cases.

[vivid rune]

pf meta is pbomb and fallen rn, arca is getting changed eventually so idk if they care that much abt it

[vocal dawn]

Touching ids and not sps would be the best best way

[sonic aurora]

it depends on the item but in this case 33% increase to the requirement is just extreme

[silent agate]

i am ngl it gave a large amount of SP, probably more than it shouldve

i think the reduction of sp is probably justified

[slender lintel]

yeah i mean that, i forgot sp are also ids

[silent agate]

we normally try to not change sp on stuff iirc, but it is unavoidable in a lot of cases, such as this one

[vivid rune]

i care least abt steamjet but realistically just nerfing the thunder and air damage along with the spell a bit wouldve been better since that isnt gonna break builds

[sonic aurora]

(full inventory item drop login exists) 👍

[vocal dawn]

Instead of nerfing a build lets make it selfcombust ahh mindset

I wasmt even running hero and i got hit harder than fallen builds dawg

[sonic aurora]

how about we do away with the 0.3 - 1.3x scale thing all together and just set ranges for the identification.

[silent agate]

this has been fixed since rainbow nerf btw

blatant misinformation spread

😁

[vivid rune]

they cant it would need to be a dull rework of the system apparently

[sonic aurora]

wait does it go to your bank now???

[silent agate]

it stays on you but doesnt apply the ids, and will come off when there is free space in your inventory iirc

[frozen pelican]

Cumu is just too slappable and strong

It’s a well deserved nerf

Compare it to the likes of medeis and dfh

It’s a shame that weathered and other air builds had to get hit

[vestal wagon]

air items are just too powerful as a whole lol

and one thing you gotta remember is that item changes are not meant to intentionally "kill" metas-- they are here to make the items more in line with each other

cumu and steamjet were clearly out of line

[vivid rune]

youre assuming that intent matters literally at all, the consequences are clear, there are more ways than one to reign in an item that is too strong

[sonic aurora]

imho air build balance has always been a touchy subject because it has seen so many changes over the years. (the agi nerf) and now this. meanwhile, they decide not to nerf ringlets even though thats like one of the goto lootrunning ENDGAME items even though its supposed to be a level 80 and NOT ENDGAME item it's still used like one. The way i look at it is i see items that dont need nerfs getting nerfed, and items that do need changes being untouched. This has been a re-occuring issue the last few years and it's not just me who thinks this.

[vivid rune]

ringlets isnt a problematic item at all tbf its used in bashscream and bashscream only which is one of the most insanely weak builds ever rn, kerat is actually used in alot of builds that are way too strong so it does deserve a nerf while ringlets rlly doesnt imp

[vestal wagon]

and raising the sp req of cumu is indeed the way to fix the issue out of many ways

cumu was literally used over many helmets for (e)twa and rainbow builds, raising the req is probably the best way to fix out of all options while still keeping it as a strong sp slap option for some builds

[frozen pelican]

Yea cumu is used in rainbow builds

Steamjet too smh

It’s like the best non crafted boots option for immo

[vestal wagon]

sp are too inflated in general these days

[vivid rune]

i really only saw it being used in hero and weathered rainbow is fair enough but that is literally just because no good rainbow helmets exist (morph and spectrum suck) just removing its spell damage wouldve been a way better change

[silent agate]

sp bloat my behated

[vestal wagon]

just removing the spell damage would not have fixed any issues that cumu was causing if i have to be honest

tbf rainbow is indeed really weak rn and is worth looking into

[frozen pelican]

Cumu being 30 req is actually insane

[vivid rune]

its not causing any fundemental issues though its just an item that is slightly too strong

[sonic aurora]

was cumu causing issues fr or was it too strong in certain niche archetypes?

i switched from cumu to other options when i had the chance

i didnt see what they are saying

[frozen pelican]

I don’t think cumu is overwhelmingly strong but it’s certainly an out of line item

Is weathered really that cucked by this change?

[vestal wagon]

i often see cumu as a last resort option for when you need sp but unfortunately the last resort option turns out to be best fit in a lot of cases

(we dont talk about bmask + crafted, bmask is such a horrible item in terms of design especially when it has to be balanced around midgame power)

[vocal dawn]

Yes

[frozen pelican]

Weathered just needs help ig

Any assassin weapon except nirvana needs help

[vivid rune]

the meta weathered build is losing 15 flex sp 20smth% spell damage 10ish% multiplicative from marks and 12% from daggers its literally dead

[sonic aurora]

first they take away your SP then they nerf your mythics and then when you are on the ground they take away your build combinations.

and force u to use blue mask

[keen belfry]

Lets keep nirvana the only usable dagger and let weath and cata die in ditch

[vestal wagon]

weathered being shit is really a shade issue more than anything else honestly

even the overtuned air items and crafteds cant save it

[vivid rune]

its really strong this patch where are you getting this info from

[frozen pelican]

How is weathered strong

[keen belfry]

Fully crafted weath was still like 20% weaker than non crafted nirv

Crafted vs crafted no competition lol

[frozen pelican]

Non crafted nirv🤡

[vestal wagon]

well from these mfs claiming that shade weathered is dead LMAO

[keen belfry]

Crafted obli was like x2 more dmg than weath iirc

[vestal wagon]

whats nirv's stab dmg

[keen belfry]

25 smth

[vestal wagon]

non-cr?

[keen belfry]

Idr

All i know is that crafted weath was 19k and 18k if you wanted to sustain tcc

[vestal wagon]

cr weathered is like 20.5 but it has more qol cuz air

[vivid rune]

90ishk ehp easily 500kdps bursts infinite sustain good mobility weathered is really good, just does a bit less damage than nirv so ppl think its bad ignoring the ws ehp and QoL from mid

[keen belfry]

Agi fake ehp 🗣️

[vivid rune]

its not fake when you have like 30-40k base from 3clone

[keen belfry]

Fun fact, clones stop giving ehp after rework

[frozen pelican]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=13#9_01dCR-1969FCO976cAN9d91CR-1CUCU9f9F9w9t9i910QxCR-19i9i9i9i9iCT9m910xdCR-19i9i9i9i9iCT9c91CR-19i9i9i9i9iCT9n910Qm0y1A2f-w-w1g10000I10009I10009I10009I10039I0z0z0+0+0+0+0-1TzpTsKt4BW3
WynnBuilder build:

Anamnesis
CR-1969FCO976cAN9d91
CR-1CUCU9f9F9w9t9i91
Stardew
CR-19i9i9i9i9iCT9m91
Azeotrope
CR-19i9i9i9i9iCT9c91
CR-19i9i9i9i9iCT9n91
Nirvana [w6w6t6]

[vivid rune]

are you slow? were talking about current patch

[keen belfry]

This issue was already adressed

[frozen pelican]

Tricko backstab but you can work with this

I don’t see weathered getting anywhere close to this damage

[vestal wagon]

so like whats the issue with cumu nerf to weathered

if weathered is decent with the qol already then wouldnt a slight nerf to cumu be fine

surely 40 40 40 isnt hard to reach for a given meta weathered build

[keen belfry]

Slight nerf to cumu my ass, its like my third build forced to run blue mask atm

[vivid rune]

if youre just braindead focused on damage yeah weathered cant match it but theres other things that go into a builds strength

[frozen pelican]

See build

[vivid rune]

its the fact that like 4 other things on weath are also getting nerfed lmfao, not to mention cumu nerf does literally nothing to burst hero which is the actual offender with the item

[stiff dirge]

burst hero is not the only offender lmfao

theres so much cumu slap atm its insane

[vestal wagon]

just a coincidence that atree team is also nerfing shade aspects really

like the ct doesnt change stuff to murder your builds

[frozen pelican]

If you only look at strict meta you won’t see the cumu slap

[vivid rune]

itsa the only thing that overperforms with it, other cases of cumu slap are because there arent strong items for the niche

[stiff dirge]

on builds where cumu realistically shouldnt be the best option it still is, because its so incredibly easy to use and gives so much

[keen belfry]

Shade nerfed before fallen 🗣️

[vivid rune]

dude i dont even play weathered im just talking about the consequences of the changes, balance is an ecosystem you cant just change a bunch of shit without thinking about it and expect no repercussions

[vestal wagon]

tbf i was indeed kinda shocked about how fallen evaded another patch

[stiff dirge]

shocked how shaman only got a minor buff

and only in the archetype that currently already works

[frozen pelican]

I just really don’t believe weathered builds are getting cucked by this change can anyone link me the build

[vivid rune]

we should get lone24 in here to give another 5 paragraphs about how aco is literally only playable on bloodshatter reso and even that kinda sucks lmfao

[stiff dirge]

yea idk 90k ehp 500k dps weath with good sustain already sounds great?

[keen belfry]

Just slap glue mask to lose ws hp dmg aka everything that matters except sustaon 🗣️

[frozen pelican]

You can’t just… adjust your sp?

[keen belfry]

Fun fact crafteds sp dont mean shit

[vivid rune]

talk to pnoot about it idfk he says its gonna be really bad

[stiff dirge]

i can play pz aco and lose 200k dps compared to playing summoner, which is also easier to play 😁

[vivid rune]

very real and true lmfao

[keen belfry]

Weath is unusable without crafteds, impossible to sustain it without being mana steal focused only.

And if you wanna play mana steal go oblivion lol

[vestal wagon]

saying that shatter reso is the only playable thing on acolyte is wild

[stiff dirge]

it isnt but acolyte is underpowered

[vivid rune]

my bad theres also tank abso for nog walling nice catch

[frozen pelican]

Regular reso and abso

Other than that aco is actually just bad

[vestal wagon]

yeah i do think aco is underwhelming rn but it is not that horrible

i would at least regard it, as a real archetype

unlike a few others...

[vivid rune]

regular reso and abso do no damage and have barely any team util theyre just vastly inferior lb

[stiff dirge]

aco has highest heals but nothing really needs it, vengeful buffs less than fortitude, you dont have taunt so tanking is less reliable, your damage is just kinda meh

[frozen pelican]

can you break even break through acro dps without doing some deranged shit like 7k ehp ETW

as regular acolyte

maybe pz does idk

[stiff dirge]

you can tank with pz aswell lmao

[vivid rune]

bloodshatter is the only thing hitting over 100k consistant on aco as far as im aware

[stiff dirge]

fanatic mask is nice

pz aco is like 200-250 ish, 20k ish ehp without counting lunatic mask

depends if you go hard into def or not

[vestal wagon]

dawg abso aco hits like 100k+ consistent by itself if you use pcycle

[vivid rune]

show? never seen this b4 in my life may be revolutionairy

average abso ive seen is like 60-80k

[frozen pelican]

I believe that

[vestal wagon]

bmask libra pain cycle crabs 3/4 crafted dfusion

[stiff dirge]

idk i see abso players celebrating if they hit 100k dps lmao

[vivid rune]

real

[vestal wagon]

atp im convinced im playing a different game what the fuck

[keen belfry]

Another glue mask 🗣️

[vestal wagon]

this is why glue mask is a fucking issue i want that thing gone as well 😭

it was already better than cumu when you have a sp shortage even in early 2.1

[keen belfry]

No helmet usable period

Morph, cumu, glue, whats next

[stiff dirge]

unravel my goat saves my pz builds

[vivid rune]

lets just nerf all good items atp why even have fun with video games

i want my builds to do no more than 100k dps and have no more than 20k ehp

if it looks viable nerf that shit frame 1

[vestal wagon]

y'all are just overreacting im gonna be honest

[stiff dirge]

i think CT balance intent is that fights should be taking longer but idk

[vestal wagon]

these items are clearly overtuned in the very first place and needed nerfs for many years

[vivid rune]

this wont be accomplished by any reasonable changes

[vivid rune]

bm has been nerfed like 5 times over the years it is a great item that allows for alot of fun builds to work, wanting it nerfed just sounds like prioritizing minor balance over player experience which is a shit game design philosophy

[stiff dirge]

ok but 60 sp is alot of sp

[frozen pelican]

at the cost of not having any other stats

[keen belfry]

I still remember glue being 0hp instead of -750 😔

[frozen pelican]

ok yea I'm looking into weathered builds

[vestal wagon]

one big part of bmask's dominance in 2.1 meta is also because of stuff like this https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=13#9_069CR-1969FCO6a6Y9R9d91CR-1CUCU9f9F9w9t9i91CR-1968vCOCm6IAg9a91CR-1CTCT9i9i7n9i9m91CR-1CTCT9i9i7n9i9m91CR-1CTCT9i9i7n9i9c91CR-1CTCT9i9i7n9i9n910Q+0+0n1T-z1o1g00001007lU0z0z0+0+0+0+0s1Tzh-1xhsY1
WynnBuilder build:

Blue Mask
CR-1969FCO6a6Y9R9d91
CR-1CUCU9f9F9w9t9i91
CR-1968vCOCm6IAg9a91
CR-1CTCT9i9i7n9i9m91
CR-1CTCT9i9i7n9i9m91
CR-1CTCT9i9i7n9i9c91
CR-1CTCT9i9i7n9i9n91
Weathered [a6a6a6]
(Has Tomes)

crafteds are generally too overpowered

also ik nothing about shade sugo was just requesting a weathered build from me and i satisfied all the specs he wanted

[vivid rune]

nobodys saying it istn, you get no other stats, negative hp, you rarely benefit from all 5 stats, and even though on paper it really isnt enabling anything too game breaking because items around it dont benefit enough

[velvet dawn]

Can we nerf brainwash pls

[vivid rune]

this doesnt sustain

[keen belfry]

Indeed, another nerf to cata 🗣️

[vivid rune]

not evne close actually lmfao

[vestal wagon]

ask sugo idk why he wanted it

anyway my point is crafteds are also way too dominant rn

[vivid rune]

ok but youre using this as an argument for bmask to be nerfed, the build is non functional idrc what sugo wants he isnt the divine arbiter of good builds 😭

[vivid rune]

crafteds are very strong and have some standouts that need reigning in this is true, blue mask is only as strong as it is in the meta because sp is an enabler for crafteds, reducing the power of some ludicrous recipes like the aquarius pants indirectly nerfs BM and therefore it does not need to be touched

[frozen pelican]

what even was the meta weathered build

I don't see any that sustains

[vivid rune]

ask pnoot xd

[keen belfry]

Thats the fun fact, you dont

[frozen pelican]

the best one is about as much sustain as wise's one

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=13#9_069CR-1969FCO6a6Y9R9d91CR-1CUCU9f9F9w9t9i91CR-1968vCOCm6IAg9a91CR-1CT9i9i9i9S9S9m91CR-1CT9i9i9i9S9S9m91CR-1CT9i9i9i9S9S9c91CR-1CT9i9i9i9S9S9n910Q+0f0w1T041w1g00001007lU0z0z0+0+0+0+0-1Tzh-1xhsY1
WynnBuilder build:

Blue Mask
CR-1969FCO6a6Y9R9d91
CR-1CUCU9f9F9w9t9i91
CR-1968vCOCm6IAg9a91
CR-1CT9i9i9i9S9S9m91
CR-1CT9i9i9i9S9S9m91
CR-1CT9i9i9i9S9S9c91
CR-1CT9i9i9i9S9S9n91
Weathered [a6a6a6]

a bit more ehp for tiny bit less damage but yea

[vivid rune]

the one pnoot is saying hes gonna swap to also doesnt sustain its just shade being aids rn for the most part

[frozen pelican]

like, weathered just seems like a lost cause

[vestal wagon]

still doesnt change the fact that bmask giving 60 sp with no req isnt fine

im gonna be honest even if we assume crafteds never existed in this game, bmask is still really strong and the situation will only get worse in the long run

[keen belfry]

Cant wait to recraft my entire shit for this for crafteds nerf next patch

🔥🔥

[frozen pelican]

idk why people are complaining about cumu nerf to weathered builds

when weathered just... doesn't work

[vivid rune]

crafteds are the only thing that actually benefits from sp slap non crafted bmask builds kinda suck cause they cant justify the loss of the helmet slot, theres kinda no evidence for your point here

[uneven prairie]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/662777559414603796/1278916693984284755/x9_jumpscare.gif

[keen belfry]

By killing all sp helmets one by one blue mask becomes better 🤯

[uneven prairie]

Next nerf bmask all sp 12->10

[frozen pelican]

blue mask kinda really doesn't appear to me as a strong item

in normal builds it really doesn't do anything

it's only use is patching sp with crafteds really

[vestal wagon]

it is quite insane for WA builds in particular to slap str dex back up

probably also strong for WF but WF isnt real it cant hurt me

[velvet dawn]

Fr - hp sucks unless other items have innate high hp which crafteds easily obtain

[vivid rune]

so literally just warp were both talking about the one warp build that uses bm and moontower to get decent str/dex for damage and is still outperformed by fatal 💀

[frozen pelican]

blue mask has a niche and it can stay that way

I don't find it offensive

[vestal wagon]

ok well now that i think about it the root of sp slapping being strong in the very first place is due to str dex scaling so i suppose bmask can stay

[keen belfry]

[velvet dawn]

Crafteds should be nerfed they got high base hp and higher stat bonuses

[vivid rune]

🤝

[vestal wagon]

either way back to the topic

cumu was still quite frankly overtuned and needed this req increase

[uneven prairie]

I have a dmg build that relies on sp slapping to stay alive

[frozen pelican]

rip pnoot ig

[vestal wagon]

there do need to be more viable sp rainbow helmets in general rather than spectrum 1 2 3 like spectrum is boring as fuck man

[keen belfry]

Funnier fact to weathered

[frozen pelican]

what could a good rainbow item look like

[keen belfry]

In non crafted vs non crafted, its easily outperformed by flameshot hilt

[frozen pelican]

honestly

[keen belfry]

I love like -20 backstab cost

[vestal wagon]

lately the new items have been avoiding sp bloat

[frozen pelican]

the only that I feel like is special is aura of element

well, the two bird set armor too

[vivid rune]

idek how rainbow could get into the meta tbh 5 way damage split is insanely hard to compensate without just giving a ludicrous ammount of sp

[vestal wagon]

like theres a clear trend to make sp spamming not as dominant

hence why we see stuff like splintered dawn

[vivid rune]

may or may not be a coincidence that nearly all of the new items are shit 💀

[keen belfry]

^

[frozen pelican]

oh yea splintered dawn is actually pog

[vivid rune]

like OV has what 1 or 2 items that are actually usable in the meta?

out of double digits

[vestal wagon]

i would like to think of OV items as more of an experimental thing

its kinda like, testing water for new gimmicks

[velvet dawn]

Now you said that, watch them nerf every item to become ov item level

[vivid rune]

gg

[vestal wagon]

also the nerfs probably are coming to an end, at least on the sp side of things

its really only sp bloat being a major issue for the item pool rn

[vivid rune]

maybe but i think its really easy to tell that they wouldve been a flop on release, i looked at them for a second when i unlocked them went "thats probably shit but il wait a bit to comment" and then low and behold they were shit

[frozen pelican]

maybe there needs to be a global lowering of sp reqs

to come with the sp nerfs

[velvet dawn]

Real

[frozen pelican]

cause build variety tends to dwindle as there are very clear choices on items when sp is this tight

[vivid rune]

this just homogenizes stuff too much tbh, rainbow has a field day with this, split element has a field day with this, single element weapons start going like quad or rainbow always and things lose their identity

[vestal wagon]

yeah well they dont wanna powercreep stuff and then start nerfing them all the next update

would rather to just slowly buff them eventually cuz people do feel shit when stuff gets nerfed

rn the approach feels like nerfing overtuned stuff from ages ago and then slowly buffing everything (starting with weapons)

[frozen pelican]

like WA is getting too homogenous

cause sp reqs are too tight

[vivid rune]

the niches the outer voids items fill are complete uncontested, by all means they should have been insanely successfull, they are so numerically weak and so niche though that they just dont have a reason to be run, powercreep rlly doesnt have anything to do with them besides like etio which didnt even cause any powercreep

[frozen pelican]

same as ETF or ETWf

or ETwa

[vestal wagon]

WA has already been homogenuous since 2.0 and it isnt due to sp reqs

[stiff dirge]

society if single damage stat was viable

[vestal wagon]

aphotic carrying the entirety of EWA is still funny to think about

[stiff dirge]

spring buff spring buff

[vestal wagon]

sp scaling is a major issue rn and i dont think there is a clean solution to it atp

IMs have talked about it many times

[vivid rune]

i dont think spring can be successful in the meta if it doesnt lose the -dex tbh

[vestal wagon]

spring is successful if you actually care about ehp

sadly no one does

[frozen pelican]

maybe with new IMs things could change *wink wink nudge nudge

[stiff dirge]

it can be meta if double damage stat isnt better in every way

[vestal wagon]

like 25 weaken is a fuck ton man thats like +33% ehp to everyone

[vivid rune]

yeah so it cant be meta cause thats how the game is 😭

[vivid rune]

unironically slow is the better stat rn cause ehp is too low for a 25% reduction to matter much

[vestal wagon]

the day when single dmg stat becomes meta is the day spring gets a nerf

[vivid rune]

i genuinely dont think it would need it even then its base is really bad too

[vestal wagon]

weaken is too good but ehp is irrelevant for meta raids atp

[vivid rune]

yeah agree, anything getting hit on purpose can take the damage, anything not getting hit wont be saved by a reasonable reduction if it is

[vestal wagon]

one cause of this is probably the fact that mobs are balanced around insane healing and then healing is balanced around these insane mobs

a literal vicious cycle

[vivid rune]

if archer had more team util options maybe debuffer spring could become a decent accessory in the meta like lb is rn but i really dont see it otherwise

[frozen pelican]

if only weaken and slow applied on spells

[vivid rune]

they dont!?

[frozen pelican]

iirc they only apply on melee

[vivid rune]

that is wild

[stiff dirge]

slow is also ignored by some enemies

like greg

[frozen pelican]

exactly

[vestal wagon]

you can put weaken and slow on enemies with spell but im not particularly sure if weaken affects "indirect" spells like greg's skull

[vivid rune]

mfw having low ws makes greg slower but having "slow enemy" doesnt

[vivid rune]

skulls are also true damage so id assume it wouldnt work anyways

[frozen pelican]

oh, me when I lie

[vestal wagon]

they are partially true dmg or smth idk its complicated (i dont have any knowledge on this) and i hate true dmg on stuff that is hard to avoid (thank you teammates)

[frozen pelican]

you are welcome wise dragon

[vestal wagon]

f you stop redirecting your skulls to me

[vivid rune]

real af im kinda annoyed every post asking tna to stop being a pvp raid gets ignored or memed

[frozen pelican]

back on topic

cumu nerf is deserved

weathered is a lost cause idk why it matters

this change makes cumu less slappable and its still strong

[vestal wagon]

balancing is just fucking hard man

too many things to consider and stuff having different progress (e.g. Item team and atree team) makes it even harder

kinda wish the community can be considerate about it because its just tough and the ct feels bad when builds get nuked too, but if it has to be done, it needs to be done.

[sonic aurora]

Dark channeler my beloved 😭

[frozen pelican]

entanglementttt

raw spell was too limited to TW and pure W back then

now raw spell is so prevalent

[vestal wagon]

and then air joined the party with the raw spell slaps

[frozen pelican]

does air actually have that bad of a raw spell problem

[vestal wagon]

yes and no

[frozen pelican]

synapse, unravel, sagi

what else (uncrafted)

[vestal wagon]

it doesnt have that many pieces having insane raw spell BUT its always those few pieces getting used

[vivid rune]

none of these are used in any meta builds 😭

[frozen pelican]

these are all old items as well

[frozen pelican]

they are on the verge of that

[vestal wagon]

and then my beloved

[vivid rune]

they arent tho crafteds hyper outperform sagi unravel has too low sp + competes with cumu and kerat and synapse is just a bad item

[torn temple]

very good rare helmet is getting nerf is not surprising

[vestal wagon]

also i think it would be better to feedback after the change is actually implemented

the rainbow sp nerf also caused a lot of backlash at the start but looking back it was genuinely needed

so why not just, sit back and actually see the impact of cumu nerf first before making extra comments

[sonic aurora]

Wait why is this actually 10% better than a max rolled sagi thats nuts. Might have to look at swapping to this.

I just dont like the idea of lootrunning with a crafted anything

[stiff dirge]

crafted brainrot
https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/crafter/#1AgAgAgAgAgAg9a51

Boots Lv. 103-105 (2✫, 2✫)
[Atmospheric Aspect | Atmospheric Aspect
Atmospheric Aspect | Atmospheric Aspect
Atmospheric Aspect | Atmospheric Aspect]

[torn temple]

t2 mats 🤣

[stiff dirge]

😁

[vestal wagon]

raffa https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/crafter/#1969FCOAgAgAg9a51

Boots Lv. 103-105 (2✫, 2✫)
[ Decaying Heart | Elephelk Trunk
Negative Rafflesia | Atmospheric Aspect
Atmospheric Aspect | Atmospheric Aspect]

[stiff dirge]

this is like expensive version
https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/crafter/#19667COAgAgAg9i91

Leggings Lv. 103-105 (3✫, 3✫)
[ Decaying Heart | Bob's Tear
Negative Rafflesia | Atmospheric Aspect
Atmospheric Aspect | Atmospheric Aspect]

wait bobs tear is wrong i think

[vestal wagon]

bobs is right cuz it has better rounding

[stiff dirge]

nvm then

[honest granite]

@vestal wagon has well outlined IM teams reasons for this, cumu was is an issue relative to many other uniques/rares with similar SP levels in its place due to its slappability especially in rainbow builds and even builds not really aligning with its elements. It does suck to have builds break and we agree, but the kinds of builds that this would break are the kinds we think need changing and much can be attributed to it. Would def wait and see its effect — we only ever use sp/req like changes like this when we think it’s truly needed for good building long term for the build breaking issue alone. It can seem that these are more common than they actually are simply because more people tend to use them when they get out of hand of this.

Sorry to weathered, i agree it’s hurt it here but i think this is also more a weathered and crafteds issue, I guess don’t think we have completely forgotten about everything else as well.

Additionally, as you guys mentioned, the more macro issues like “damage is still going to be overturned” is not what we are after with these changes in particular. Much of what we believe can aid this problem are separate from just nerfing problematic items (which we don’t love doing I promise)

[frozen pelican]

dang the super jx appearance

[torn temple]

tldr ||it is too op for usage in rainbow builds and want to change it due to hope of changes of long term effects instead purely focusing on damage||

[pine venture]

fallen the root of all problems fr

[torn temple]

Btw is the thinking behind the gsight nerf is just a level80 item being too out of place?

ie -17 or -19 2nd reduction cost and good amount of sp

[vestal wagon]

the cumu nerf is most likely independent of fallen hero being op but yes fallen is insane rn

[torn temple]

just to put it here cuz it is quite similar topics

[honest granite]

this would be pretty correct

also an AT thing as well I suppose with everything fallen. Can’t fix everything in one patch

[honest granite]

I wasn’t that active for that one but uh yea level 80 with what it used to look like I think was just. Pure insanity

[vestal wagon]

at least gsight nerf still lets you have 1 cost charge (for generalist) if you have 25+ intel

honestly the choice of base 9 is really nice here

[torn temple]

cloud 9 😋

cuz gale is linked to the wind?

and wind and clouds are p similar element?

[vestal wagon]

o i was just saying from the perspective of class building but yeah it looks nice aesthetically too

[honest granite]

also guys like also cumu is like a common item in like immo builds I have seen

[vestal wagon]

cumu + steamjet cooks so hard for immolation builds

[torn temple]

warp lb? ive seen some builds used it

[honest granite]

yeah this is kinda what I mean here by it’s gone too far in builds it is not meant for.

[vestal wagon]

yeahhh

[honest granite]

Not really me thinking immo needs a huge nerf or anything, but like. Come on. I see the why but it should not be possible

(At least without true downsides)

[torn temple]

if you show someone a weapon with fire texture they dont probably think it is for thunder water air

[vestal wagon]

i wouldnt be against more "extreme" rainbow items being introduced

rainbow class building does kinda lack variety and most of the time it has descended into "finding the best sp slap for helmet"

[honest granite]

rainbow is better than it was a few years ago at least

well not necessarily in power but at least in pure building pain

[vestal wagon]

yeah

[honest granite]

rainbow issue fr cause if it give it too much variety it’ll just become meta

too much (powerful) variety

[vestal wagon]

ye rainbow does feel kinda embarrassing to balance

[frozen pelican]

rainbow mythic boots will be one of the most painful things to create and balance

[honest granite]

only way to make rainbow succeed on its own with powerful items is to lock it behind gravity like SP which makes building so boring because you slap libra vaward prowess etc to make it work. So it’s a lose lose, we’ve tried for years

[frozen pelican]

I wouldn't be against going wild with it tho honestly

rainbow deserves a kick

[honest granite]

so we’ve kinda been riding the balance of not making rainbow slap as insane as it used to without making rainbow items purely boring or locked

[vestal wagon]

stuff like splintered dawn and satellite was a good direction

[sonic aurora]

Epilogue mine as well be mythic boots and contrast a mythic necklace

[honest granite]

yeah maybe we can give ourselves a bit of leeway with rainbow we will see

[frozen pelican]

epilogue is as boring as freedom

[vestal wagon]

unironically neutral mythic boots would go hard

[honest granite]

hope everything said makes sense but I’ve gotta run

[vestal wagon]

bye

[sonic aurora]

Satellite just seems like a slightly rebranded libra tho

[sonic aurora]

Glad you stopped by!

[vivid rune]

thank you for explaining it and being professional

[vestal wagon]

it is like really different from libra when it comes to its role in builds

tho i dont really see it being used cuz libra is generally better

[frozen pelican]

^

[eager dawn]

this nerf was fine tbh

the morph stardust murder was honestly more egregious than this

cumu has always been an outlier when it comes to 30sp pieces - if you look at dfh, thanos legionnaire or medeis they all have 40sp req and no one's complained about that before

this isn't that bad. as long as glue mask continues to exist, everyone gets to keep their op as fuck crafted builds 👍

[vestal wagon]

linny gotta wake up to fuck over crafteds some day...

[wild jay]

Imagine a perfect wynn future where every single item is entirely unviable

[eager dawn]

imagine a perfect wynn future where every item is equally shit so it doesn't really matter what items you choose

[frozen pelican]

struggling to come up with something that isn't roll hell

and even balanced in the slightest

[vestal wagon]

just mythics in general honestly

warp and boreal 😭

the non-roll hell ones tend to be either:
major id carried
or boring as shit

[eager dawn]

real item

[wild jay]

Who even needs statue

[eager dawn]

idk I think the concept of an elementless mythic is extremely hard to pull off without literally copying statue

probably needs to be like this to be remotely usable lol necrosis ahh item

[wild jay]

putting aside that this is all fantastical i think you underestimate how fucking hard reqless 6.5k hp and 350 all ele defs goes

[vestal wagon]

the gert bow enjoyers are gonna rise

[eager dawn]

it's supposed to be an "equalizer" item lol

[frozen pelican]

4500 damage raw just..

makes this incredibly unbalanced even if its neutral

[eager dawn]

no matter what weapon you use it'll turn it into a neutral damage stick that does a fixed amount of dps

idk there's probably a better way to pull this item concept off but I acc think this is the only way an elementless mythic could make it into the game w/o copying statue

it's actually balanced bc it has horrible synergy with literally every other item in the game since basically no other damage id is allowed to function once you equip it

at least that's how I envision it - for that to actually happen the stats probably need to be changed

ok fixed

[vestal wagon]

can i get the CI link (without lore cuz the lore messes up links)

[eager dawn]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/custom/#10000BOmniscience0250401050530G0301ba0H0205U0I0205U0J0205U0K0205U0L0205U0M0201g1w0335FA2qU1x0300GQ17621023773r22023773r

[vestal wagon]

damn it didnt mess up this time

[eager dawn]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=13#9_0690JF0uj01wCI-10000BOmniscience0250401050530G0301ba0H0205U0I0205U0J0205U0K0205U0L0205U0M0201g1w0335FA2qU1x0300GQ17621023773r22023773r0uP0uP0x40OH06b1B1B0y0t0+1g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0-1T-JtjFFGm1
WynnBuilder build:

Blue Mask
Gravity
Anxiolytic
Omniscience
Photon
Photon
Succession
Diamond Fusion Necklace
Gert Bangswing Manypointystick []
hmmmm yeah this is probably overpowered

[vestal wagon]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=13#9_06909-0D401wCI-10000BOmniscience0250401050530G0301ba0H0205U0I0205U0J0205U0K0205U0L0205U0M0201g1w0335FA2qU1x0300GQ17621023773r22023773r0uP0uP0wr0Ji0R11E1E0G0E2M1g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0-1T--PCRsis0
WynnBuilder build:

Blue Mask
Conduit of Spirit
Dark Shroud
Omniscience
Photon
Photon
Lachesism
Contrast
Warp []

[torn temple]

discord fucking sucks btw

[eager dawn]

wtf lol didn't know that was possible

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/custom/#10000BOmniscience0250401050530G0301ba0H0205U0I0205U0J0205U0K0205U0L0205U0M0201g1w0335FA2qU1x0208pc621023773r22023773r

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=13#9_06909-0D401uCI-10000BOmniscience0250401050530G0301ba0H0205U0I0205U0J0205U0K0205U0L0205U0M0201g1w0335FA2qU1x0208pc621023773r22023773r0uP0uP0wr0Ji0R11G1G0E0E2M1g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0-1T--PCRsis0
WynnBuilder build:

Blue Mask
Conduit of Spirit
Dark Shroud
Omniscience
Photon
Photon
Lachesism
Contrast
Warp []
ok looks fine now

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=13#9_0690JF0uj01uCI-10000BOmniscience0250401050530G0301ba0H0205U0I0205U0J0205U0K0205U0L0205U0M0201g1w0335FA2qU1x0208pc621023773r22023773r0uP0uP0x40OH06b1B1B0y0t0+1g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0-1T-JtjFFGm1
WynnBuilder build:

Blue Mask
Gravity
Anxiolytic
Omniscience
Photon
Photon
Succession
Diamond Fusion Necklace
Gert Bangswing Manypointystick []

yeah I think it's balanced now lol

you slap it and it instantly makes pretty much every other item in the game irrelevant (which is the point)

the tradeoff is that you get a fixed amount of dps that's horrible in endgame but you get to slap whatever you want and the build will be exactly the same

and then to ""balance"" this out just make it almost impossible to obtain 👍

[vestal wagon]

str dex slap...

[eager dawn]

I was gonna add a way to -150 str -150 dex without actually making str dex items impossible to equip but that's a crafted only feature

[junior rock]

just add a high FA req

[frozen pelican]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/custom/#100008Nihility015vIndifference is the strongest state of mind. Each broken expectation and shattered promise unveils the chilling truth: to wield unparalleled power, one must embrace the detachment of care. In absolute apathy, the world reveals itself in stark clarity, unshackled from its meaningless meanings.0250530G03017u0M0201d0O010j0P010j0Q010j0R010j0S010j0T010F0U010F0V010F0W010F0X010F0n0105L0u013D70x0200U221I023AA5U1b010Cq1h023KKAy1p0200U221x0201Q66

I did a little something

Can't be balanced without an item in mind honestly so I didn't bother

[upbeat cypress]

whar am i looking at

[frozen pelican]

me burning the kitchen

[vestal wagon]

that lore kinda cooks wtf

[eager dawn]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/custom/#100008Nihility015gIndifference is the strongest state of mind. Each broken expectation and shattered promise unveils the chilling truth: to wield unparalleled power, one must embrace the detachment of care. In absolute apathy, the world reveals itself in stark clarity, unshackled from its meaning.0250530G0301rC0M0201d0O010j0P010j0Q010j0R010j0S010j0T01050U01050V01050W01050X01050u013D71w023FF8D1x0201Q6623010Cq

[frozen pelican]

You are welcome

I made it just now

[eager dawn]

unfortunately I think this item is useless

not enough damage raw to make it remotely viable

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/custom/#100008Nihility015gIndifference is the strongest state of mind. Each broken expectation and shattered promise unveils the chilling truth: to wield unparalleled power, one must embrace the detachment of care. In absolute apathy, the world reveals itself in stark clarity, unshackled from its meaning.0250530G0301rC0M0201d0O010j0P010j0Q010j0R010j0S010j0T010F0U010F0V010F0W010F0X010F0u013D71w023FF8D1x0202qCC23010Cq

[frozen pelican]

it should really be balanced around a select few neutral items

[eager dawn]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=13#9_0690JF0uj07pCI-10000BOmniscience015gIndifference is the strongest state of mind. Each broken expectation and shattered promise unveils the chilling truth: to wield unparalleled power, one must embrace the detachment of care. In absolute apathy, the world reveals itself in stark clarity, unshackled from its meaning.0250530G0301rC0M0201g0O010j0P010j0Q010j0R010j0S010j0T010F0U010F0V010F0W010F0X010F0u013D71w023FF8D1x0202qCC23010Cq0uP0uP0x40OH06b1a1a160y181g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0-1T-JtjFFGm1
WynnBuilder build:

Blue Mask
Gravity
Anxiolytic
Omniscience
Photon
Photon
Succession
Diamond Fusion Necklace
Gert Bangswing Manypointystick []
yeah this is like absolute garbage now lol

[frozen pelican]

if you want it to be useful for hmelee give it neutral melee raw

[eager dawn]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/custom/#10000BOmniscience015gIndifference is the strongest state of mind. Each broken expectation and shattered promise unveils the chilling truth: to wield unparalleled power, one must embrace the detachment of care. In absolute apathy, the world reveals itself in stark clarity, unshackled from its meaning.0250530G0301rC0M0201g0O010j0P010j0Q010j0R010j0S010j0T010F0U010F0V010F0W010F0X010F0u013D71w0333zw28k1x0208pc621023773r22023773r

what if we combine the two item concepts

[frozen pelican]

you can't do that with neutral damage raw cause it just makes it too op for spell

[eager dawn]

I actually think this works lol

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=13#9_0Au0JF0uj080CI-10000BOmniscience015gIndifference is the strongest state of mind. Each broken expectation and shattered promise unveils the chilling truth: to wield unparalleled power, one must embrace the detachment of care. In absolute apathy, the world reveals itself in stark clarity, unshackled from its meaning.0250530G0301rC0M0201g0O010j0P010j0Q010j0R010j0S010j0T010F0U010F0V010F0W010F0X010F0u013D71w0333zw28k1x0208pc621023773r22023773r0uP0uP0x40OH0DY0y1B160y181g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0-1Tj7N
WynnBuilder build:

Cumulonimbus
Gravity
Anxiolytic
Omniscience
Photon
Photon
Succession
Diamond Fusion Necklace
Depressing Stick []
yeah I think this is balanced lol

the item gives horrid damage and can't be used for really goofy things due to the really high sp req but it allows you to just slap tank items

blunt force ahh item design except now it's an overtuned mythic boot

[frozen pelican]

I'm failing to understand why the damage isn't higher than it should be

[eager dawn]

because of the -damage% lol

this item essentially removes all damage stats from the game the minute it's equipped

the only thing that matters is what percentage of your weapon's damage is neutral

even base dps doesn't matter anymore bc the only way to increase damage is to increase neutral damage raw now lol

using warp with this gets you like 800 more meteor damage than using depressing stick

[frozen pelican]

oh didn't see that

ic

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=13#9_06907Y0yI080CI-10000BOmniscience015gIndifference is the strongest state of mind. Each broken expectation and shattered promise unveils the chilling truth: to wield unparalleled power, one must embrace the detachment of care. In absolute apathy, the world reveals itself in stark clarity, unshackled from its meaning.0250530G0301rC0M0201g0O010j0P010j0Q010j0R010j0S010j0T010F0U010F0V010F0W010F0X010F0u013D71w0333zw28k1x0208pc621023773r22023773r0uP0uP0n+0OH00b160y0y0y0y1g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0-1Tj7N
WynnBuilder build:

Blue Mask
Cardiac Arrest
Runebound Chains
Omniscience
Photon
Photon
Synapse
Diamond Fusion Necklace
Bonder []

I guess

[eager dawn]

yeah it basically just turns your everything into a jack of all trades

no point in using synapse btw just use prowess and slap str dex

[frozen pelican]

anyway I'm proud of the lore

[eager dawn]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=13#9_0D80oY0Ek080CI-10000BOmniscience015gIndifference is the strongest state of mind. Each broken expectation and shattered promise unveils the chilling truth: to wield unparalleled power, one must embrace the detachment of care. In absolute apathy, the world reveals itself in stark clarity, unshackled from its meaning.0250530G0301rC0M0201g0O010j0P010j0Q010j0R010j0S010j0T010F0U010F0V010F0W010F0X010F0u013D71w0333zw28k1x0208pc621023773r22023773rCR-1Ac9k9HAS9f9x9m91CR-1Ac9k9HAS9f9x9m910SL0OH06b1f160y190y1g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0-1Tl7RikssSI
WynnBuilder build:

Darksteel Full Helm
Taurus
Earth Breaker
Omniscience
CR-1Ac9k9HAS9f9x9m91
CR-1Ac9k9HAS9f9x9m91
Momentum
Diamond Fusion Necklace
Gert Bangswing Manypointystick []

[frozen pelican]

Indifference is the strongest state of mind. Each broken expectation and shattered promise unveils the chilling truth: to wield unparalleled power, one must embrace the detachment of care. In absolute apathy, the world reveals itself in stark clarity, unshackled from its meaningless meanings.

[vestal wagon]

i was gonna say infused hive wand but then what the fucking hell is this

[eager dawn]

yeah the only way to meaningfully increase damage w this is to slap hmelee crafteds on extremely high base dps weapons lol

[frozen pelican]

bonder ftw

[vestal wagon]

it looks so naked now 😭

[eager dawn]

yeah infused hive wand has lower base than bonder

[frozen pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cute-hehehe-evil-plan-gif-13516156

[upbeat cypress]

this is not true but yea

infused hive weapons r cooked

[eager dawn]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=13#9_07F0mG0AB080CI-10000BOmniscience015gIndifference is the strongest state of mind. Each broken expectation and shattered promise unveils the chilling truth: to wield unparalleled power, one must embrace the detachment of care. In absolute apathy, the world reveals itself in stark clarity, unshackled from its meaning.0250530G0301rC0M0201g0O010j0P010j0Q010j0R010j0S010j0T010F0U010F0V010F0W010F0X010F0u013D71w0333zw28k1x0208pc621023773r22023773r0vI0vI0n+0OH00b161C1P120y1g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0-1Tl7N
WynnBuilder build:

Caesura
Soul Signal
The Crossing
Omniscience
Ingress
Ingress
Synapse
Diamond Fusion Necklace
Bonder []
ok even if you push this item to its limits damage wise it's still bad so I think omniscience is ready to be shipped into the game 👍

[vestal wagon]

infused hive stuff does have high base after you powder it but ngl on first glance i thought i accidentally inputted some random lvl10 unique into wynnbuilder

[eager dawn]

someone make me ct so I can put this absolute abomination of an item into lootpool

[vivid rune]

gg this will be actively leveraged against you if you ever make a ct application sorry to say

[frozen pelican]

this thread isn't derailed it's chasing the edge of the universe

[stiff dirge]

hana

hmelee hana? cursed as hell but it sounds funny

[eager dawn]

sucks w hana bc it completely nullifies all your weapon stats and hana's only upside is its neutral damage% which gets completely cancelled

[stiff dirge]

dang

[idle socket]

i expected cumu to be nerfed, along with steamjet
couldn’t care less

[sonic aurora]

Just run aphotic phantasmal hostage atp

Especially on spring

[idle socket]

seeing people complain about weathered because of these nerfs is so funny to me

[sonic aurora]

My nulli build didnt break

Nullcrobat lootrunning 💀 but works

[oak peak]

real ngl

[sonic aurora]

im already working on a solution and you guys are going to love it

so basically in hero fallen you replace cumulonimbus with one of these.
high dura https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/crafter/#1969FCOAoAoAo9g91
low dura https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/crafter/#1AoAoAoAoAoAY9g91

I like the higher dura recipe better because we lose 8% damage and get tons of dura which is only like 8k dps or some

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder?v=11#9_CR-1969FCOAoAoAo9g910u8CR-1969FCOAgAgAg9i9107W0uP0uP0K40OT0Qi0G1B1D062C1g1007cU1000FU1004cI10036C103tlU0z0z0+0+0+0+0-1Tz+JVpyw9
WynnBuilder build:

CR-1969FCOAoAoAo9g91
Wanderlust
CR-1969FCOAgAgAg9i91
Capricorn
Photon
Photon
Prowess
Diamond Steam Necklace
Hero [a6a6a6a6]

[keen valley]

Hey guys

I wonder what was the public fallen build to do with this man

I have no clu-
Oh wait it has cumu and steamjets

Guys don’t you see

They tryna nerf hero again

Let’s revolt (this is a joke)

[sonic aurora]

i dont like it when they force us to use crafteds because i would prefer not fixing my gear mid lootrun

[keen valley]

You can interact with blacksmith?

[sonic aurora]

so ive heard

[keen valley]

I can’t be asked to check rn

[sonic aurora]

some people troll on here the fact i have to validate that is crazy

[keen valley]

I just run ktrc hero with mpc supp dvis and Renda

Fr

If so I might look into cr lb/lq rings

Or braclet

[frozen pelican]

https://wynnbuilder.github.io/crafter/#1968vCOAoAoAo9g91

Helmet Lv. 103-105 (3✫, 3✫)
[ Decaying Heart | Borange Fluff
Negative Rafflesia | Wintery Aspect
Wintery Aspect | Wintery Aspect]

Smh

Actually didn’t expect unicorn horn to be this good here

Probably funny rounding

[sonic aurora]

im hearing news about a bug with fallen archetype and something is unusable rn.

[frozen pelican]

?

[sonic aurora]

tbh i have no idea about how this game works but my guild is saying it so i trust them.

[frozen pelican]

Can you relay the message verbatim

[sonic aurora]

one of the nodes isn't proccing let me ask them

something to do with uppercut

[pseudo moon]

axe kick? fireworks? comet?

[sonic aurora]

i dont like fallen

going back to screamer monk 🙂

[keen valley]

Armor breaker breaks upper

And radiance breaks bash

Gonna be fixed soon tm

[pseudo moon]

what is armor breaker doing?

[keen valley]

Breaking uppercut

Idk more since I haven’t logged on tdy

[pseudo moon]

hmm

[sonic aurora]

hero fallen unusable rn

only bmonk is working

[keen valley]

Read above why

It’s because you cycle scream scream upper

And for pala same thing

[sonic aurora]

yeah i was doing 50k fallen hero on damage dummy

[keen valley]

It’s so damn funny

Has anyone checked if massive bash is broken as well

Because it technically is a scaling ability

[sonic aurora]

im just gonna use the hero monk thing for now until they can figure it out.

[keen valley]

Yeah

I’m just gonna huic while they do this stuff

[stiff shore]

Puck in profile, me like

[frozen pelican]

?

Oh idk I didn’t have the upper problem

Maybe it only happens when it’s hitting mobs

[nova belfry]

#Reinstate5Steamgility

[sonic aurora]

the helmet in the post now looks like this after nerf.

[supple spoke]

Reqs are higher and sd is lower 🤯

[sonic aurora]

Thank you to everyone on both sides who contributed their viewpoints about these changes in a professional understandable way. Only time will tell if these were the right changes or if this will pave the way for more rare items to receive similar treatments in the future. #RaresAren'tSafe craft your lootrun sets from now on and repair mid lootrun at the blacksmith!

This post was an opinionated piece and i expected a half and half split of likes and dislikes but we actually had turnout! Cumulonimbis my rememberance forever.

[main lava]

Yeah this is a pretty shit direction from IMs

@edgy grotto yet another reason to play non-meta builds because of balance changes to anything that appears "too strong"

[vivid rune]

what rlly baffles me is steamjet and cumu nerfs didnt even effect the meta they just hurt some offmeta stuff and thats all

pnoot weathered build found dead in a ditch but i can still get like 500k dps by pressing 2 buttons on fallen hero

[main lava]

yeah this change is a massive fucking L not gonna lie

[edgy grotto]

Both items needed a nerf idk what you're yapping about

[silent agate]

lol

[frozen pelican]

Fallen hero isn’t really something that can be fixed without AT changes ngl

So is weathered

Cumu had less fking reqs than medeis

Weathered is also a lost cause stop coping

[vivid rune]

thats the point lol.... why are items paying for the sins of atree changes

[frozen pelican]

cumu kera and steamjets are way overtuned

etiolation and wanderlust too

[sonic aurora]

im gonna leak the guardian build they dont want to leak