#Regarding the Assassin Aspect changes

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wicked hatch
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The proposed changes to the aspects for shadestepper are in my opinion set to heavily miss their mark when they go live next patch.

The purpose of the changes as explained to me was to reduce shade’s reliance on aspects to be a powerful class, and while a number reallocation to base does somewhat help it out, the way that aspects are having their power removed leaves a lot to be desired.

Currently shade’s knives are each an 8% stacking damage bonus, at 5 knives (the default cap) nightcloak knives provides a 40% damage bonus, and with the aspect increasing the cap up to 8 a possible damage bonus of 64% with the proposed changes, a shade player with the basic 5 knives will now have 45% damage at 5 stacked knives (36% at 4) however using the maxed aspect for more knives, they will only gain a bonus of 28% at 4 stacks, and a maximum cap of 52% at 8 knives.

The largest application of this change is in boss fights such as TNA, TCC, Anni, and LI where minions are either sparse or not present at all at times, given these conditions the maximum amount of knives capable of being stacked in one harvest is 4, meaning a player with the shade aspect will need to choose between tanking a near 10% damage penalty for equipping an aspect that took hours to grind, or, spend double the amount of downtime setting up their marks by performing a second stacking cycle, which will take a minimum of 10 seconds in the beginning of a fight.

Marks start at 6, and go to 9 with the max aspect, in the new patch 6 marks will give a 42% damage boost, with the max aspect capping out at 49.5% meaning that the mark aspect will require an extra 1.5 seconds to stack up for a 7.5% extra damage bonus, meaning more marks is at best a nominal damage increase from base, and at worst a dps loss for equipping a maxed aspect, assuming you attacked any time before stacking up to 8 marks.

These numbers are problematic for two reasons, firstly this is a substantial nerf to shade at high levels, it doesn't only reduce the need for aspects it also makes shades overall power budget much lower which is an odd decision for a class that is not at all problematic in the meta.

Second, this change means that there are very common thresholds where the knife and mark aspects are actively a detriment to have on, aspects have been marketed as an “Incremental increase” to player power which is a design philosophy these changes entirely betray, taking these aspects will mean needing to commit heavily to fully stacking buffs to get any reward, or being punished for your hard earned upgrades if you fail to execute.

I agree with some aspects not just being a default to put on, however due to their intended nature as incremental increases, The choice should not have to come from possible downsides to the aspects, it should come from the opportunity cost of many competing strong aspects, given the fact that high level aspects are a result of an absolutely ludicrous amount of grinding, diversity should not be enforced with a stick approach.

In conclusion the upcoming shade aspect changes serve to undermine the design philosophy of aspects and greatly reduce the achievement, power, and versatility afforded by having these maxed aspects, further adjustment will definitely be necessary.

Thank you to GDP Aurmeowra pnoot autosmord and Wintel for giving thoughts to help make the post btw

desert glade
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"set to heavily miss their mark"
is this a pun?

obtuse solar
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Hmm
But what if we leave it as is proposed to accelerate it dying and have it redone later
The trickster rework removes the ehp ability most shadesteppers rely on, so once that drops, shade will fully die, and people are just going to migrate to trickster like

(please don't stone me, i'm a spellshade main and saying this ironically)
(but i do think a relatively big rework would be needed for shade eventually anyway)

echo cliff
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i do not think shade needs a big rework anyway, it just needs more qol to compensate for no clones

clear jacinth
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wait isnt clones a sizable dmg increase aswell? i havent looked at shade trees so idk what nodes they take but if so isnt losing them big nerf to dmg too

echo cliff
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trickshade uses clones for dps yes
but shade WITH just clones is for ehp

clear jacinth
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surely trickster and acro rework will make them good while also not actively harming shadestepper with no compensatory buffs Clueless

echo cliff
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i’d say shade is in a good spot apart from tweaking some abilities to better improve its qol and fixing some bugs
i think it’s also confirmed that its aspects will also be qol later but this was done as a non-dev time change

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but yeah, i don’t necessarily agree with these aspect changes not because of the damage nerf, but because i don’t feel like base shade got most of the aspects power + i had expectations of aspects shifting away from being a straight damage increase rather than making shade somewhat more comfortable to play

brave robin
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yeah if the clone ehp removal is inevitable i think shade could use some qol in building up marks/knives faster

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rn the glass cannon part of shade doesnt really feel so glassy imo

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and outside of boss rooms your damage is neutered cause of knives resetting/waiting stuff to spawn and hopefully not be killed by teammates lol

barren cliff
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I feel like the power nerf was justifiable since the aspects were very powerful, and comparatively most nonmythics in other classes are QOL related. with that said can we get more knife duration on the knife aspect praying emoji

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also another solution would be to give the last few marks/knives less dmg but thats harder to implement ig

river geyser
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Assassin ahhhh

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Assassin trying to not get nerf challenge

obtuse solar
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the biggest qol factor right now is vanish cd, aspect vs no aspect is insane difference
it's a known problem, but i don't know if just shifting the vanish cd reduction from aspect to base ability or shadow siphon is enough to fix it
the other aspects absolutely needed to be nerfed, but i guess i would have preferred a diminishing returns for extra marks/knives solution
mark buildup is honestly fine, but the knife change is pretty awkward

obtuse solar
echo cliff
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things might change after dmg lb gets changed
having the 40m damage farmers with massive aoe get like 2m total dmg in boss

obsidian hound
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they are already nerfing shade bruh

proper mulch
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Kinda funny

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How ppl are concerned at 7.5% dmg loss on ncn

broken whale
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just make the -dmg panalties only work on upgraded dmg modifiers (with aspect, 1-5 knife has same bonus as no aspects and also have 1-3 more knife with less bonus), that can fix that "aspects lowers the dps" issue.
also lf attack speed boost on thunderstorm (or other "more hit less dmg" on smth) aspects

echo cliff
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i do not think they can even specify if only marks and knives from aspects do lower damage without fucking up the system

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that is just way more complicated than just making aspects qol rather than straight dps increases and moving majority of the damage to the base tree

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you are asking for 2 different sources of marks and knives doing completely different damage values which is super unnecessarily clunky

lunar dagger
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"also lf attack speed boost on thunderstorm (or other "more hit less dmg" on smth) aspects"

have you even looked at the aspect before?? this already exists

echo cliff
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shurikens also do more hits and less damage, and a handful of other aspects
i do not get this entire point

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if you haven’t seen these types of aspects at all then we’re not playing the same server unfortunately

raven tulip
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i think they mean like apply that awkward system to those aspects too

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like u just got that one extra puppet that does -5% earth dmg for no rrason pumpk

signal silo
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Maybe just have the marks have diminishing returns by itself

untold imp
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buff shadestepper

signal silo
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shade is one of the last things that need a buff

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it needs qol changes tho

dusky shore
signal silo
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it needs rework but at least it can hold its own rn

obtuse solar
# echo cliff shurikens also do more hits and less damage, and a handful of other aspects i d...

This type of aspects is common, but puppets, marks, and knifes are the only 3 that have buildup involved, the rest always trigger all extra hits/arrows/etc once you trigger the ability. It's not very noticeable with puppets and marks, since they build up pretty easily, but knives are a bit awkward now. There are a few fights that aren't long enough/require you to use pots often enough to make a full 8 knife setup unreasonable (if you're doing low int), and in those situations having the aspect will just hurt your dmg. It's not some Big Problem, just adds an annoying extra consideration of "do i want to take the aspect off for this fight", which sounds like moving away from qol.

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since i was the first one to mention a rework in this thread and people seem to be arguing about it, i should mention that i meant mostly a qol rework. i like the base loop, but the stuff around it is meh, and vanish shouldn't be relying on a mythic aspect to be good

austere obsidian
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I don't understand why they didn't make it equal to current with max aspect and better at base

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nerfing shade is just

larry

graceful copper
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Buff shadestepper ❌
Nerf shadestepper ✅as_what

barren cliff
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most powerful dps archetype 🤷

echo cliff
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the fallen in question

signal silo
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In the right conditions shade can do way more than fallen

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At least hero fallen

barren cliff
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once shade is set up it does more than any fallen in terms of overall dps

obtuse solar
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i don't think ive ever seen a shadestepper do more damage than fallen in a raid, unless the fallen dies early/buffs align well for one and badly for the other. full setup is just too difficult in most group situations.
||i swear i'll pop a vein if another new player kills the mobs i set up for nck and shifts at me as if they saved me||

raven tulip
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dmg farm doesnt count

signal silo
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Cause fallen scream does like at least 5 times more damage to mobs in an area

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You get like 10m from wing room, at least 4m from each tna room and more without competition, NOL rooms are even more damage farming, and notg is notg

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While shade requires so much setup and backstab is bad aoe

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Idk how good violent vertex is for damage farming but yeah

obtuse solar
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I know that tna counter is based on all rooms, but aren't the rest based purely on the boss? And nest purely on the dmg to the head section?

raven tulip
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no, other raids are based on all rooms but the damage shown is the original non scaled values which is why u get like 4m on notg and 40m on tna

raven tulip
wicked hatch
zealous kelp
zealous kelp
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is it like 4x crafted or some shit because i'm not hitting anywhere near the numbers that some people are sharing

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it's awakened and totem totem aura cycle right

barren cliff