convergence also might see some use once bmonk can hold up for itself
#The State of Mythics
static coral
simple narwhal
2.3 mythicbond coming
cosmic steppe
Fruma mythics ong
hard parrot
frank lion
WF stinky
It's literally just Acolyte if you want to do well, summoner if you like the funny little gobos, and then Ritualist if you're a masochist and like making the game harder on yourself for no reason
random matrix
It's literally just Acolyte if you want to do well, summoner if you like the fun...
nah aco is weak except for reso, summoner is usually better, and ritu for mortar and mortar only
frank lion
nah aco is weak except for reso, summoner is usually better, and ritu for mortar...
Summoner has bad crowd control. In a meta where almost every fight turns into mob spam. Acolyte build with 40k less DPS does more damage total because it can hit everything :/
Also morar is pretty funny ngl
twin parrot
once the commander makes puppet stand in front summoners gonna be cooking
Atm theres no reason for them to be further away from the enemy, while unable to also be hit by friendly-fire lol
random matrix
Summoner has bad crowd control. In a meta where almost every fight turns into mo...
where tf r u needing cc in endgame?? unless you’re trying to lr on shaman??
frank lion
where tf r u needing cc in endgame?? unless you’re trying to lr on shaman??
Lootruns, annihilation (mob spam) TNA hands that spawn, Grootslang wormlings, and orphion's countless minion spawn. In 3/4 of raids and in the 2 most important end-game content (annihilation+Lootruns) you need AOE damage. Summoner falls short in that category
random matrix
Lootruns, annihilation (mob spam) TNA hands that spawn, Grootslang wormlings, an...
lrs: shaman fails anyways, but yeah aco wins there
anni: where tf mobs?? literally just hit the boss buddy, plus if u need aoe just press rll
grootslang: yeah that’s the exception
orphion: just ignore them! plus sorrow won’t chain
greg: sorrow won’t chain either, those are also single target enemies
grootslang is the exception in that tether is actually meta, and shaman in lring is overall sad
frank lion
lrs: shaman fails anyways, but yeah aco wins there
anni: where tf mobs?? literal...
In parties where everyone else dies you get swarmed by the big red mobs. I think some of them reduced heal Eff. And if you're building for max DMG, you're gonna have very little mana sustain. especially with the mana sustain nerf to Summoner, that's less viable than it used to be
"Just ignore them" bruh the whole point of a fight is to kill the enemies so they don't do damage to you or your allies. Your overall damage output is still far far greater with aco and a subpar build
Greg: multiple single target enemies = AOE. And the fact that blood sorrow hits them all means more total damage. Especially because Greg moves so fast that it's easy for puppets to miss their hits but sorrow has homing 
frank lion
grootslang is the exception in that tether is actually meta, and shaman in lring...
I never said Shaman was absurdly good I'm just saying one archetype is objectively better than the other in basically every scenario
SHOULD you run aco lootrun? No, probably not, there's better (warrior) classes for that, but if someone decides to bring shaman, summoner is very disappointing
random matrix
i think our opinions and experiences differ because of a skill gap
static coral
The fact that pz best archetype is summoner, the archetype that doesn’t need spell spamming, says something
random matrix
i have literally never once had problems with cc in any boss, i think ever? maybe i remembered wrong for notg havent played in a while — because the minions are too few and far between to be hit by any meaningful aoe
for the hands - you’ll never have more than one on you
unless one’s a crowd, that aint cc
frank lion
unless one’s a crowd, that aint cc
They move fast enough for goblin attacks to keep missing. You don't kill them fast enough and more keep spawning. It's annoying AF but yes TNA is the lesser example of needing crowd control. Blood sorrow is still better for the accuracy
random matrix
They move fast enough for goblin attacks to keep missing. You don't kill them fa...
yeah summoner bad against moving targets, but they run straight at you; damage is a build issue
frank lion
yeah summoner bad against moving targets, but they run straight at you; damage i...
My point is that a sub par build with aco does more total damage than a good build with summoner. Which means the other archetype is objectively better from a combat perspective
random matrix
My point is that a sub par build with aco does more total damage than a good bui...
straight up false with the exception of reso
acolyte has no damaging abilities pretty much, and sorrow is prohibitively expensive — it loses dps compared to auraspam on builds like abso
frank lion
acolyte has no damaging abilities pretty much, and sorrow is prohibitively expen...
Wrong. Sorrow + Lunatic mask
At this point we're not gonna convince each other, so have a good day lol