Why The Emeralds Nerf From Raids?

[jovial hamlet]

In the game, there are several ways to earn emeralds, including:

Lootrunning: Widely considered the most effective method for making emeralds.
Raids: A consistent source of emeralds if you achieve consistent success.
Professions (Proffing): Another viable method.
Other methods: There are likely additional ways to earn emeralds that I haven’t mentioned.

Currently, lootrunning stands out as the best option for maximizing emerald earnings. While raids can provide a steady income, they require consistent victories. The key word here is "consistent." For example, one raid might take 4–5 minutes to complete, while another could take 8–10 minutes if you end up as the last one alive. Additionally, the rewards from raids can be inconsistent. Sometimes, you might get a good emerald loot pool, but other times when the loot pool isn't the best, you’re left with just a few emerald blocks, barely earning a liquid emerald from the rewards.

With this in mind, I don’t see why an emerald nerf for raids is necessary. Some players prefer raiding, while others prefer lootrunning. It’s important to give players the freedom to choose how they want to earn their emeralds. Targeting raid rewards for a nerf could discourage players from raiding, pushing them toward lootrunning or other methods instead.

If the goal is to introduce or encourage a new way to make emeralds, a balanced approach would be more effective. Applying an equal nerf across all methods, rather than singling out raids, would make more sense and feel less targeted.

[pure solstice]

Agree, adding a new way of getting emeralds is cool, but not when the "encouragment" is based of nerfing other methods

[mental schooner]

raid emerald nerf isnt related to the new contentr

[pure solstice]

seems like it is

[mental schooner]

i'm telling you now it is not

explicitly

[pure solstice]

if that new method allows to get you more emeralds, then most players would believe that

[serene needle]

therein lies the issue, yeah. it actually factually is a coincidence, but no one will believe us

[jovial hamlet]

Okay lets just say there isnt someting new coming, why the nerf?

[pure solstice]

maybe if you nerf that emeralds, you could readjust the loot, like buff certain ingredients in those bags or make gambits more valuable, idk but just nerfing that content, would make that reaction

orphion for example doesn't have a really atractive ingredient for consumables, could start there

[edgy fossil]

lex reasoning from another thread
tldr some weeks you got 2x emeralds because the 2 le reward would show up instead of the 1 le option so sometimes you get way more then needed so they just removed it

[pure solstice]

or make the new thing, excel at ingredients farming which seems more apropiatte since seems like thats a thing we dont have at endgame content

[mental schooner]

i'm going to keep an eye on rewards after this, but i really think that raid emeralds were too high all across the board

especially if you compare them to pre-2.1

[edgy fossil]

ty lex :)

[jovial hamlet]

well they did get harder in comparison

[mental schooner]

and i think it's fine that they're higher. but they're too high atm

i think i had people telling me they were averaging 8 le

and thats maybe higher than the actual average, but the actual average is still up there right

[worldly sparrow]

this doesn’t justify lowering the LE rewards overall though? this kind of thing should have compensation, like having the EB pulls be improved across the raids to compensate

[warm void]

if only i got screenshot of getting 1le in a 3gambit raid :D

[worldly sparrow]

raid rewards never were good money, despite the content being fun and repeatable! what justified this nerf?

[leaden current]

the raids are harder now, isn't the LE reward increase justified?

[mental schooner]

it still is higher than pre-2.1

100% it is

[edgy fossil]

i dont think it needs compensation but im also like rich as hell w/o raid farming so i am biased

[jovial hamlet]

Also Ive consistently gotten 48 eb raids?

[limber owl]

Was this taking into account guild raids vs regular raids ?

[mental schooner]

probably it was guild raids yes

[limber owl]

Because guild raid bonuses for extra pull does a LOT here

[pure solstice]

i agree that is high, but the high is bc ppl that get a lot of emeralds rewards are usually like in guildraids with gambits, ppl who does pf doesn't get as much of emeralds, i did 20 times RoL/TCC just to test last changes on rewards and in some cases i would get 20 eb or none emeralds

[warm void]

too many, need to get nerfed

[mental schooner]

let me go do some math on emerald odds

[mental schooner]

yes some cases are like this and this is (currently) unfixable

[jovial hamlet]

If you take the rune price in consideration tthe profit isnt much if you just amke less than le from a raid

[worldly sparrow]

this only says so much for your argument. the biggest issue with raid money is that there are plenty of other ways to make more money than raids to, nearly all of which are significantly less fun (for me at least). nerfing an already not great way of making emeralds just doesnt make sense in this context.

im not saying this change should be reverted, as i understand your point of view when it comes to this, but i definitely dont think removing the 2 LE pulls from raids are a good idea.

[mental schooner]

how many raid pulls do you want me to calc rewards for

20?

[pure solstice]

or make a pity sistem for emeralds, that way ppl who get a lot of tcc could get like a garantee of 5 le after not getting any le in raids (not in the form of blocks), emerald farming with raids can be too big or too small depending on the skill of the players and the organization rather than the time spends

[mental schooner]

that seems like a good average amount

[drowsy harness]

raids were like, the #1 way of generating LE and still are

[green tinsel]

this is way too long i’m not reading it all but I think ur first sentence answers it all

[pure solstice]

you can get more at lr, i got 20 stx in one week, just by doing 1-3 per day compared to 20-30 raids per day

[green tinsel]

also there was a poll for how much people make and I bet that contributed

[jovial hamlet]

Exactly my point,

[green tinsel]

summary: should have bottled that poll to say it made no emeralds

[mental schooner]

is this raw le

[pure solstice]

no

[worldly sparrow]

theyre definitely not the #1 way right now

lootrunning is arguable better
rune grinded for uth runes is very efficient
grinding Remnant of the Ruined is absolutely insane money, just proffing in general really

the main contributor to raids not being the best method for money is the fact that your runs are so inconsistent, whereas nearly every other money making method is perfectly consistent

[mental schooner]

right

[scenic bronze]

can someone

[mental schooner]

but thats an important factor

[drowsy harness]

in raw Le or from selling mythics

[pure solstice]

thats the point

[worldly sparrow]

but i can 100% guarantee that raids ate not the #1 way of making money

[mental schooner]

youre also getting aspects from raids here

[green tinsel]

raids aren’t for emeralds! they are for aspects and fun

[queen star]

"averaging 8 le"

[green tinsel]

yeah this

[jovial hamlet]

And the point is? Itts only making your character stronger not making u richer

[green tinsel]

anyways runes will be cheaper because of this so don’t worry too much Mr OP

[pure solstice]

selling mythics since i don't look for mythics on pool, i do lr with disco so i can get more efficiency, also when i get killstreak LB i can get at least 10 mythics, so lr are way more broken

[worldly sparrow]

wait averaging 8 le?? what? lol

[drowsy harness]

i said generating LE, not making money. selling a mythic doesnt generate more LE, it actually does the opposite (assuming you use the TM). raids generate the most LE and also reward aspects

[pure solstice]

i have most aspects maxed so, no diference for me

[worldly sparrow]

^ aspects shouldnt be a factor to money output

[mental schooner]

its what i was hearing from people

[worldly sparrow]

you cant sell aspects

[pure solstice]

what if i have maxed aspects?

[queen star]

this problem could be solved by adding more money sinks to the game, you dont necessarily need to nerf generation

[warm void]

i like abusing this image so much (it had reached till 45 raids btw)

[mental schooner]

it is a factor when you consider what a content's purpose is

raids are not solely for emeralds. the aspects ARE a big part of raid rewards and you need to take that into account when compared to something like lootruns which is primarily money focused

[drowsy harness]

then you're running raids for the LE, in which it still generates the most raw into the game

[jovial hamlet]

its not a crazy amount tho? LIKE WHat?

[pure solstice]

i do them because i have a lot of runs and is the ONLY activity that rewards teamwork, i like playing with other players since im a healer in all games i play, and wars are not good, so...

[worldly sparrow]

i understand that, but why cant raids be a fun way of making money? what if i dislike lootrunning? (i do)

[versed solstice]

genuine question why are we comparing lr raw le vs raid raw le when like 95% of the money u make from lootrunning is selling the mythics

[drowsy harness]

yeah but nerfing the LE from raids also solves other problems like lex said earlier

[pure solstice]

at least i expect that the new endgame activity is for doing thing with teamwork rather than a solo activity

[worldly sparrow]

as someone who nearly solely raids as their favourite form of content in wynn, i can vouch for the fact that the money you make from raids doesn’t make sense to nerf, ESPECIALLY in a pfinder settingb

[drowsy harness]

you've read what it is, right?

[mental schooner]

raids will still be good for money

right

[worldly sparrow]

with the 2le pulls getting removed? no chance

[mental schooner]

like. this isnt intending to kill the money making

[drowsy harness]

this

[pure solstice]

i can tell you that without gambits, the average Le from ROL is 4 Le

[queen star]

i am extremely worried about the nerf youre giving them if 8 le was your baseline

[worldly sparrow]

^^^

[green tinsel]

what if u have maxed items

[mental schooner]

the nerf is switching the 2 le pulls with 1 le pulls

thats the change

[worldly sparrow]

that’s still very massive

it just seems too much

[jovial hamlet]

^

[pure solstice]

yeah, or make ppl who have that aspect, get 1 more pull when the aspect is maxed

[jovial hamlet]

bro the tol runs are almost 1le per rn is almost 40eb per rune and its not even guaranteed you win the raid. Especially for newer players who want tto get in to raiding, if they see that the rewards are not worth it, and just wasting more le from runes then it would totally just discourage them from doing raids in general.

[pure solstice]

i mean, the thing that is way more problematic is the aspect limit

[worldly sparrow]

like im ok with the 2 le pulls going, but at least compensate by making the EB pulls a bit better. you’re removing so much LE from raids by doing this

[pure solstice]

ppl are not doing raids because they have almost all the aspects, and the ones they like are t3-t4

my guildmates just don't do that much anymore

and reducing emeralds incomes just makes players just do lr/anni

[green tinsel]

they will decrease in price

[jovial hamlet]

Still my point stands

[green tinsel]

cost of a tol will likely never exceed the avg output of a raid

[drowsy harness]

it literally doesnt lol this is a funny thing to say

[pure solstice]

annie rune rewards got nerfed so idk about that

[drowsy harness]

"the price of tol runes are too high"
"they will decrease"
"ok well even if thats true my point still stands"

[jovial hamlet]

did you try reading the rest?

[drowsy harness]

yeah and your argument is that if the tol runes are too expensive compared to the raid output then they wont do it. if tol runes dropped then your argument would be nil

[pastel sandal]

erm my input is that i think emmie nerf is fair enough

[dusky spear]

Turn overflow aspects into emerald pulls 🤑

[drowsy harness]

this isnt even relevant i just thought that was funny

[pure solstice]

i farm tols in WE since is an extra income while i wait for raids and most of the times i get more money bc of runes rather than ingredients or items

[worldly sparrow]

lowkey

[pure solstice]

tols are way too expensive

[jovial hamlet]

that was not my point, not about tol rune prices about how newer players wont get consisteny victories. Even if they do win and see thatt the reward is not fulfilling why raid even?

[pastel sandal]

not a bad idea

i vibe with that

[steel cedar]

hii selvutt

[drowsy harness]

the crux of your argument is really "if the rewards arent fulfilling" which relies on the point earlier abt tol price > output

[pure solstice]

i said that a few days ago but one of the ct said that they are working on something apparently, but they jsut said that

[pastel sandal]

oh sick

[pure solstice]

not any news on that too

[pastel sandal]

maybe in the future

[lucid wyvern]

it's defo not.....

[pure solstice]

would agree on that change if they solved that issue first

[lofty knoll]

the problem with your argument is that any competent group can consistently do TNA in 5 mins or less. Competent groups make many times more emeralds per hour than the average party finder group. The nerf mainly affects those competent groups.

[jovial hamlet]

Omg I MADE 52EB FROM RAIDS IM SO Rich now

[pure solstice]

if they are going to solve that in fruma, then nerf emerald rewards in fruma

[jovial hamlet]

how bout new players tthat are trying to get into raids? would thtey even try to get tbetter at that point?

[serene needle]

long and short of it is that while raids should provide enough to be worth doing, they're mostly based around tomes and aspects rather than money, and no matter how huge of a time investment aspects are they're limited, and that's fine as most people will not obsessively run raids over and over and over and over to max out every single aspect or get perfect tomes. the money is basically a secondary thing in terms of the planned rewards, and the value of that(outer void or no outer void) was deemed to be too high, so we reduced it by a bit.

and yeah we do still need that planned system for aspect scrapping or whatever

outer void was designed as an alternative as directly stated in the changelog

an option, not a replacement

[lofty knoll]

this affects them like 5x less than good players

[serene needle]

also. you can get runes by methods other than buying them

[green tinsel]

ong what if we removed runes from trade market

[serene needle]

slowly, and those methods should probably also be improved, but you can do it and the fact you can shouldnt be ignord

[green tinsel]

then raids would have an undefined (infinite) return

[pure solstice]

yeah, world events but since lutho world events are not doable in terms of money making anymore, idk about that

[serene needle]

...rune guardians? golden avo? uth altars? transferring up?

[pure solstice]

the problem is that trying to solve the issue with emeralds before the ones with aspect is a horrible take

[wild ibex]

emeralds nerf from raids was 100% needed

[pure solstice]

rune guardians nodes farming is a issue, same as golden avia (i do like to farm ingredients but i know that most ppls dont do it) and golden avia are way too expensive rn too

[serene needle]

.

[pure solstice]

i sell golden avia at 1 le

[jovial hamlet]

also uth shrines are just so buggy rn and not worth doing

[green tinsel]

can’t u make way more than that in tols

[wild ibex]

they are worth doing lol

[green tinsel]

remember it isn’t just u getting the tols

[pure solstice]

altars are buggy

[leaden current]

^^

[green tinsel]

u have a whole party

[serene needle]

buggy in what way, tell us so we can fix it

[jovial hamlet]

sometimes it just eats up 5 feathers

[serene needle]

since apparently this isnt a bug that benefits you and thus one youd want to keep secret

[pure solstice]

sometimes altars pick up more avias, sometimes the guardian doesn spawn

[wild ibex]

they mean the downtime between it i think

[jovial hamlet]

okay buddy

[pure solstice]

downtime

i can keep going, im not doing more altars in the meantime

[wild peak]

i dont think a bug that eats avia feathers is one that benefits anyone

[serene needle]

so it occasionally eats multiple feathers when activating it, and sometimes the final enemy doesnt spawn?

[jovial hamlet]

wow IT BENEFITS ME SO MUCH

crazy

[pure solstice]

yeah, and you get trapped unless u /class

[green tinsel]

benefits people that farm tols in a non avia way

[leaden current]

it's been a bug since before 2.0

[pure solstice]

sometime the arena locks you for like half a minute

sometimes it doesn't drop runes

[wild ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/crunch-cat-yappology-yap-degree-meme-gif-11530662489200106248

[pure solstice]

or you get trapped in air blocks

[jovial hamlet]

Also again there are so many bugs in TNA rn that just makes you fail the raid entirely, 2nd room bulb room sometimes the BAT just disappears, 3rd room void matter room, same shit it just disappers making you fail the raid entirely.

[pure solstice]

is not fun too

[green tinsel]

notg v2

[prisma pier]

The CT don't want you to know this but tol runes are so expensive cause the main supply of them pre 2.1 was from a now fixed bug abuse generating thousands of them

[pure solstice]

but why "fix the emerald situation" before "fixing the aspect situation" if you are postponing the second one, why not the first one?

[tribal sequoia]

Lol..

[wild peak]

this is batshit insane. seriously concerned if the nerf was made off of this preconception

[wild ibex]

r u fr

[mental schooner]

its based off of other observations as well

[pure solstice]

like what ?

[jovial hamlet]

you guys should probably see for urselves instead of just believeing them

[prisma pier]

Oh fuck it's over for me

[scenic rapids]

will this affect the wynncraft servers?

[worldly sparrow]

that one thread from a while ago?

[mental schooner]

here are my reasonings for the 2 le removal in general

[wild ibex]

raids do give a shit ton of le, what else is there to see

[plucky heath]

8le from raids? In my dreams

[pure solstice]

this, or make a ct space for testers

[ruby trench]

wait why are we complaining about le nerfs in raids

this shit was so overtuned

[pure solstice]

what about public raids without gambits?

[wild ibex]

word

[serene needle]

-Activating the Uth altar occasionally consumes multiple feathers(Detecting multiple inputs before it closes- hold right-click and multiple feathers will be taken supposedly)
-The Uth Guardian which drops the runes will occasionally not spawn(is there a pattern to this so we can figure out the why of it?)
-The arena will trap you for about 30 seconds on occasion(is this related to the above? The doors open 40 seconds after the point where the Guardian is supposed to spawn, so is it "trapping" you related to the Guardian not spawning?)
-The Uth Guardian occasionally will not drop runes(same questions apply- is there a specific guardian that does this? This hasn't ever happened before that I've heard of)
-Players can get frozen in air blocks somehow(once again- is there a discernible pattern to this? Is it due to blocks being replaced around the exits where the arena closes and opens?)

[jovial hamlet]

how so? i literally just made 1le from a raid i justt did? i proffited less than an le if u consider tolrune

[serene needle]

is that everything

[wild ibex]

you gotta unlock gambits and even running a single gambit gives already a decent amount of le 🤯

[pure solstice]

have you tried doing TCC with /pf in 10-15 minutes just bc ppl don't defend and can't do their tasks?

[plush spruce]

balls

[leaden current]

very funny

[worldly sparrow]

for the first one you literally just hold rmb on the altar with feathers in your hand, its 100% consistent

[plush spruce]

feet tingle why are you lurking here

[leaden current]

why are you here chicken

[wild ibex]

lmfaoo get a team then, no ones forcing u to run pf, this cant be no excuse

[plush spruce]

:3

[pure solstice]

yes, but also altars are not fun to me, i don't have any type of attraction to them so i can test them more

[pure solstice]

i would still get the same 2 le, not 8 le

[plucky heath]

Since we are off topic, why did cherrybombs get nerfed so hard?

[wild ibex]

ok?

[jovial hamlet]

I for sure raid more than you and I am barely making 1-2stx per day. Im talking about a shit ton of raids by the way. not just 20-30 raids

[small yew]

rest in peace raid money

[jovial hamlet]

hi bow its me iza new account XDD

[wild ibex]

🤯

[lucid wyvern]

why do yall push these changes and goes 'i think ... people told me'

[warm void]

u fell for the bait...

[serene needle]

noted that down

[solid oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-used-to-be-believable-baited-jebaited-bait-i-got-jebaited-gif-1296286127798996733

[small yew]

oh lmfao

[leaden current]

AHAHA

[small yew]

the one person who raids enough to complain about this

tna pool is kinda crazy this week tho whats ur avg rn

[lucid wyvern]

oh its iza lmfao

[jovial hamlet]

i litterally just made barely 2 le (all emerald blocks) last raid butt avg rn mybe 2-4le give or take all gambits.

[serene needle]

cause we aren't memorizing this stuff necessarily. we're not committing to exact memory everything we hear once we've dealt with the issue. it isn't like we go off nothing, it just is that we don't like, fill out a notarized spreadsheet or something to have on file, so when discussing it once it's done we are often just remembering stuff from offhand and don't have the exacts

[lucid wyvern]

Gg?

[jovial hamlet]

Yo The one person who does not raid "foxxochan" down voted HAHAHA

[small yew]

averaging 8le would be insane

[mortal nova]

is it reasonable to tell content team members to go run 100 raids and see their le reward count

[pure solstice]

make a document of that

[leaden current]

even with graid + all gambits you never avg 8 le per run

[pure solstice]

is way more easy

[worldly sparrow]

^^^ where was this taken from? because it definitely wasnt this post, look at the reaction

[small yew]

combine that with other items from raids and ur making like 1.5stx/hr
and i can tell you from like 2000 tnas i did not in fact make 1.5stx per hour

[pure solstice]

also this

i remember most ppl would get things like 8 LE PER HOUR, NOT PER RAID

[worldly sparrow]

in this exact post i made a table showing the TNA rewards of (i believe 2 gambit?) pulls from raw LE alone, and it averaged around 3-4 LE per raid per player.

[jovial hamlet]

YES

[round geode]

a tna run is what 4-5 minutes? 8le would be fucking bonkers lmfao

i avg probably 4 le per run

[small yew]

when we were nolifing our team prolly had the best tna rates on the server

[worldly sparrow]

8 le is much more accurate in last week's nol pool.

[coarse mulch]

Did nols emerald reward get nerfed

[pure solstice]

4 Mins if you do well, 5 with average players and 5-7 with pf

[warm void]

to experience from players' pov, yes. And 100raids aint that alot lmao

[lofty knoll]

they have internal metrics

[pure solstice]

and also raid counters doesn take in account things like getting ready and other stuffs

[solid oasis]

the avg 8le guy in fact rolled a overall blue acc and sold it so they made 8le there

[lofty knoll]

this shows how the vast majority of players make less LE on avg than good players

[small yew]

wait what stat is this

[lucid wyvern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1030196507703513108/1314426864978362378/image_2024-12-06_100125765.gif

[onyx chasm]

Turn extra aspects into LE and this is fine nerf

[pure solstice]

and also guild raids, with raids you make way less

[lucid wyvern]

weekly tna

[pure solstice]

agree

[worldly sparrow]

very true, especially with pfinder accounted for. the supposed 8 le theyre bringing up is just incorrect

[round geode]

i mean graid i avg 4le 😭 8le is absurd

[small yew]

also i kinda stopped raiding as much recently cus i got a bit tired of it
also the LE pool for the last 2 weeks were so tragic

[pure solstice]

most i done is 11 le in 1 GUILDRAID OF ALMOST 300

[small yew]

wtf pyro more thna iza wild

[lucid wyvern]

winterbreak

[pure solstice]

like most cases i would get 5-6 le with max gambits

[small yew]

winter break gave me motivation to do other stuff lol

[pure solstice]

and that is not the average situation

most player could play with 1-2 gambits in a normal raid

[small yew]

anyways this is the best tna pool for 4 weeks

[worldly sparrow]

i just hope that the EB is compensated for this LE reduction, because it's a needlessly massive nerf to the pulls as a whole. really not fond of this change as it was done with very poor insight

[jovial hamlet]

my best chest was like 12le that was like 500 raids ago

[small yew]

@jovial hamlet go average ur le from like 50 runs or something

[lucid wyvern]

blud is enjoying the last of cbomb 💔

[coarse mulch]

If nols le got nerfed then gg lol

[round geode]

uh oh whats happening to cbomb

[small yew]

lmao

[queen star]

completely fucking shot in the head deservedly

[solid oasis]

Someone is going to make this into their ct complaining vid for sure

[small yew]

that nerf dropped in the middle of their wedding with pig (tna leaderboard lore)

[lucid wyvern]

nah this changelog is so cooked vro

[small yew]

(devastated)

[lucid wyvern]

ignis nerf and 8le avg per raid, cbomb and mortar gone

[round geode]

surely compensatory buffs to assassin :clueless:

wait mortar too? 😭

[small yew]

i did ask for cbomb and mortar nerf

mortar seems to have lost like 18% dmg and some aoe which is understandable

[worldly sparrow]

cbomb had it coming

[serene needle]

I'll bring that up whenever the same person asks a question in bad faith that we've already answered then

[round geode]

yeh both were crazy

[small yew]

cbomb lost like 80% (what) [what]

[edgy fossil]

cbomb dmg was reverted btw

[lucid wyvern]

cbomb didn't deserve to die completely though, a rebalance would be more fair since it's an unique playstyle

[edgy fossil]

its only the smoke bomb nerf now

[small yew]

yeah back to a 66% nerf wooo

[queen star]

assassin and cbomb are two different classes lol

[edgy fossil]

still better then teh dmg lol

[worldly sparrow]

true. it's either oppressively meta or useless lol

[pure solstice]

probably

[lucid wyvern]

the absolute state of wynncraft balancing

[queen star]

well ahve to see, idk how much damage its losing jsut basedf off the numbers but if it sits around 200k thats fine imo, it has so much other shit going for it

[solid oasis]

I feel bad for that, myself honestly love the change overall every changelog no matter what cause they are updates

Keep going

[small yew]

one day they'll nerf fallen and tna will go to shit

[jovial hamlet]

Ill be doing more ttoday Ill let you know whats my avg

[lucid wyvern]

On god

[worldly sparrow]

eh idk, tna comps are not that crutched by fallen.

[round geode]

and then we just bomba worm like usual

[small yew]

time for me to be shipped back off to modded

[worldly sparrow]

like fallen is very good in tna, yes, but there are plenty of other builds that can take its place when it falls

[lucid wyvern]

^

tna meta is diverse enough to be played by pr much all classes

[small yew]

yea every class is playable

[lucid wyvern]

after cbomb nerf goodbye assassin tho lmao

[serene needle]

oh that wasn't a dig at you that was a dig at the people you predicted would take that statement in the worst faith possible

[small yew]

fallen is the best if you have the skill to run it therefore also the most fun*

[tribal sequoia]

What was changed about smoke bomb?

Huh

I didn't see anything in changelog about smoke bomb changing..

[serene needle]

nothing, but cherry bombs was nerfed

[tribal sequoia]

Where was that mentioned

[tribal sequoia]

I didn't see that in changelog either..

[round geode]

in the attached thread

[tribal sequoia]

Oh I see

I was looking into assassin ability stuff </3

[serene needle]

so basically to get it to its previous strength you must take wall of smoke

[mortal nova]

item changes are usually in a seperate thread from the actual changelog

[short sequoia]

(i.e. lacerate)

[worldly sparrow]

it got edited after it was sent tbf

[tribal sequoia]

I didn't check the item changes i was looking for ability changes lol

[worldly sparrow]

gotcha

[tribal sequoia]

Cause people were saying that smoke bomb was nerfed :p

[green tinsel]

wait what was the xheeey bomb % damage need reverted? I swear it said 85 -> 40%

[round geode]

if not there anymore then reverted

[tribal sequoia]

The major id was changed to not set your cherry bombs to 3

[green tinsel]

it WAS there though right?

[tribal sequoia]

So you'd need wall of smoke to have 3 ig

[green tinsel]

yes but is that what it always said?

[round geode]

idk i didnt see it but apparently it was

[tribal sequoia]

Idk

[plucky heath]

Wall of smoke and clones are impossible together.

[green tinsel]

goofy

[plucky heath]

Wall of smoke requires lacerate, which blocks mirror images.

[wild ibex]

its not like you can play other archetypes do you

[mental schooner]

yeah got undone

[solid oasis]

But lacerate blocks echo…

[plucky heath]

Now, only acrobat can play with cherry bombs realisticly, but it has no dps to back it up.

[solid oasis]

That makes it never will be previous strength

[lofty knoll]

does having multiple bombs multiply dmg or is it just bigger aoe

[plucky heath]

3× damage

[tribal sequoia]

Damage per bomb

[lofty knoll]

kk

[plucky heath]

Just revert the cherrybomb wall of smoke nerfing and just make the multiplier from 80% to 40%, that was more than enough.

[onyx walrus]

From my personal experience, good pools are ~ 6 le raw per 3 gambit graid, worse pools can go to as low as 4 le per 3 gambit graid.

[mental schooner]

that sounds about right

its the rng of it that also bugged me

[onyx walrus]

But that's the min-maxed number of pulls on good weeks. No graid, two gambits (prob average pf player) is more like 4-5 ish

On good weeks

[mental schooner]

some weeks youre getting tons of 2 le pulls other weeks youre getting none

i am open to tweaking it further from here

this is just a first change to see where it lands

[jovial hamlet]

false, i am currently doing a tna graid with decent le lootpool, and i just literally got 1le 32eb 3 gambitt graid

[plucky heath]

Can the nerfs to cherrybombs get reversed? Instead of reducing cherry bomb amount, just cut its multiplier from 80% to 40%.

[jovial hamlet]

not in this thread brod

[radiant spear]

no

[plucky heath]

: (

[onyx walrus]

👍 I'd personally have a cap for max 2 le pulls instead of just removing it outright

[solid oasis]

Will the changes further be a hotfix that consistently happen or be in the changelog every 2 weeks

[mental schooner]

probably every 2 weeks

[solid oasis]

ic

[onyx walrus]

I'm talking about the average dude, I've gotten 13 le runs before

[pliant lion]

I don't really understand why the emerald nerf matters... at all.
The market is balanced around the emerald generation from raiding since it's the best le generator. Reducing the LE from raids will just mean that items are less expensive as long as raiding stays the best

[jovial hamlet]

4le is not low bro what ar eu talking aboutt and 13 le run is liek 1 in 300 raids?

[pliant lion]

The emerald generation could go to 5le per hour or 5 quintillion and it wouldn't matter since raiding doesn't make items

[prisma pier]

This is only half true because raids are not the only source of raw emeralds

[pliant lion]

I mean yeah other raw le-generation methods will be closer to raids in emerald generation

[round geode]

when do you guys hotfix things like this? is it just if its far below what was expected?

[onyx walrus]

That's rarer than a 13 le run. ~10 emerald pulls with a minimum of all ten being 8 em blocks is already 1.25 le.

I'm not even disagreeing with your point, I'm just providing more accurate numbers than u. U gotta do that for people to take ur point seriously

[pliant lion]

But as long as raids are still the-thing that people run for raw emeralds then nothing will really change about how much raid rewards can buy you since prices will also go down

[distant shale]

what does this even mean

obviously if you give 5 quintillion emeralds something would happen to the economy what are you talking about

[wild peak]

what

[lucid wyvern]

🙏

[pliant lion]

Yeah, the prices of everything would go up, and it would still take a similar amount of raiding to buy mythics as it does now

[jovial hamlet]

bro im sure i know what im talking about.

[distant shale]

idk how to word this nicely but you're just like entirely wrong and it would have absurd consequences

[pliant lion]

You are saying that people wouldn't price their mythics in the quintillions if that's how much raiding gave?

[distant shale]

I'm saying you're thinking too narrow about how money works

Mythics cost on TM absolutely would go up, but like, you gotta think about it more than that

[pliant lion]

Go on...

[green tinsel]

would take less:D

[prisma pier]

Do you?

[green tinsel]

not relevant

his confidence doesn’t affect his knowledge

[pliant lion]

Would it? I don't think anyone is going to sell a good mythic for an amount of money that is less than a few hours worth of raiding

[green tinsel]

maybe my logic is off but my reasoning is basically rn LR makes a competitive amount of money

people would have to swap over from lring to raiding to be able to biy mythics with this change

[onyx walrus]

Were you running notg lol

[lofty knoll]

LOL

[green tinsel]

lr would make less buying power per hour

raids should makes more if they are the only alternative

[round geode]

and then less mythics would be on the market

[pliant lion]

You are saying lootrunning makes more raw LE than raiding?

I am pretty sure this is incorrect

[green tinsel]

oooo I wasn’t doing this 10d logic

[green tinsel]

mm ok i’ll reword, might be wrong

logic still logics tho excluding squinkw’s point

[drowsy harness]

ok based for admitting fault

[fickle bloom]

here's the real dunning-kruger effect

[distant shale]

not based that I'm being asked to write a thesis on why something having a 5 quintillion LE drop "would do more than make mythics price go up"

[drowsy harness]

you chose to enter this thread

you shouldve known what to expect

[distant shale]

tealy
you're telling me
to not post
because somebody (not the original poster)
might say something illogical

😭

[drowsy harness]

no i said you chose to engage with a person on the internet who is acting afool

[distant shale]

tealy I get the message but I'm saying they were 'acting afool' after what I said :(

[robust sorrel]

https://tenor.com/view/stare-fish-underwater-what-huh-gif-17916446

[drowsy harness]

sometimes we all act a little afool

maybe the message was the fool we made along the way?

[green tinsel]

I think u killed the thread

[sand cloud]

thank fuck

[green tinsel]

ig it was fun while it lasted

[robust sorrel]

raid money pls

[pliant lion]

Also going to say I don't really think LR is competitive to raids as a raw LE source, especially if you lootrun for mythics. If you are trying to go for mythics in lootruns you take and use sacrifices heavily, and only cash out rewards when there's a high value item, which only happens like every 1-2 hours and only gives like 1-4 le unless you get lucky and roll 10-14 le (even then nowhere close to raids). If you don't use sacrifices you are missing out on huge amounts of pulls and thus get mythics much more slowly while also getting less le than raids

[distant shale]

because I said something they don't have a defense for so they tried to flip it on me instead of thinking about it

[green tinsel]

ig it depends on how rich u are

yeah I usually reroll the 30-50 le pulls and stuff but I definitely did not do that when I was poor

no way bro that money is huge

[robust sorrel]

yeah no sac stacking for the actual valuable mythics in the pool instead of going for simulators and isolators as soon as they appear

rerolling for the 30th time because the pool gave me a hadal for the 6th time

[spare olive]

i wish i had 6 hadals

[robust sorrel]

too bad they gone now, reduced back to data only to be given to another unfortunate soul

[onyx walrus]

How'd you get those colors for the aspects? They look really clean

[spare olive]

wynntils probably

[latent reef]

What exactly did the Content team do to the raid emeralds tho

And what was the original system of raids giving out emeralds

[green tinsel]

all 2 le rolls are now 1 le

[worldly sparrow]

LE*

[latent reef]

Isn’t that just halving the emeralds

[green tinsel]

effectively barely a change

[green tinsel]

no because there are non 2 le rolls

[worldly sparrow]

no it's just LE pulls, but it still is a massive decrease

[latent reef]

It’s still quite big tho no?

[green tinsel]

big ish

also small ish

[latent reef]

that’s like increasing the chances of you making less money per emerald roll

[worldly sparrow]

it's a very large decrease yeah

[green tinsel]

uh the way they explained it

basically each week u got a chance for 1 le or 2le in the pool

so the change doesn’t change some weeks at all

idk I don’t raid enough that i’ll notice it I think

[latent reef]

Why can’t they just make it consistent then 💀💀

[wooden plover]

kinda makes sense to me tbh, aspects kinda make raids emphasize aspects and doing things with friends and lootrunning is more about making raw le no?

[latent reef]

I get rotating aspects but y emeralds

[worldly sparrow]

i can get behind that change's reason, but the fact that they just didnt increase the EB pulls to compensate was super weird

like raids were not the best LE source whatsoever

[latent reef]

Thing is not everybody likes doing loot runs

[worldly sparrow]

this feels really similar to why they nerfed ignis lol

[latent reef]

And I definitely prefer making some money out of raids where I can fail sometimes and get nothing

[wooden plover]

yeah i mean, kinda why theyre adding the new thing no? and im sure there will eventually be something else to do

kinda dumb the nerf is coming so soon but it makes sense for raid emeralds to be nerfed at some point

[latent reef]

It’s still (encouraging) forcing other people to seek alternative ways to make money

[worldly sparrow]

this justification doesnt make sense because what if someone doesn't like the new content and just wants to raid? why should their LE be lowered just because another form on content exists that makes more?

[onyx walrus]

Also new raid system have been out for months now and I don't think the economy has been massively effected. Can't think of any mythic that inflated in price due to the raid system and not outside sources (like not appearing in pools)

Like, why now, yk? Things were going well

[worldly sparrow]

^^^

this whole patch just seems so... weird. all of these changes are very disconnected from how the community feels about the game rn

[green tinsel]

here

[wooden plover]

maybe idk what im talking about cuz i havent played in a bit but it sounds like itl make the game more fun to me ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[latent reef]

Yeah things were pretty good for months

[wooden plover]

it just sounds like its taking the game in a direction that makes sense to me

[drowsy harness]

(they were)

[pliant lion]

I mean things have definitely been getting more expensive. Simulators and insulators are like 2+ stacks now where previously they are around 1. Shares are 1stx 40le instead of 40le and were this way even before the event

[drowsy harness]

i think you mean money making source though

[latent reef]

How so tho (also aspects rotate and nerfing emeralds just gives them an incentive to skip raids until their aspects come into rotation)

[worldly sparrow]

yeah i do, my b

[onyx walrus]

Ok tbf I haven't thought of that

[drowsy harness]

which is. debatable

[worldly sparrow]

i can name like 4 other better sources off the top of my head

[drowsy harness]

but fair enough

[latent reef]

Lootrunning takes too much prep imo

World events r pretty good methods tho tbh

[mental schooner]

its a lot less than youd think

[wooden plover]

even then, best method while still having fun im sure the 4th hr of ing grinding or whatever gets pretty dry

[latent reef]

I wanna see like the whole probability ngl

[worldly sparrow]

exactly!! this is a lot of why i was so sad to see the LE get decreased

[mental schooner]

it reduces the average by maybe like 15%

[worldly sparrow]

i want to have fun while making LE! that's like 85% of the reason why i do raids!

[mental schooner]

because a lot of the emerald value already comes from the EB

[latent reef]

Doesn’t it make it go down to chance more then?

[mental schooner]

no

the 2 le was already very much up to chance

[wooden plover]

idk seems fine to me, they should buff world event emeralds tho :)

[latent reef]

Or is it the opposite it makes getting lucky less effective

[worldly sparrow]

i think the average money from pools will become signfiicantly more reliant on EB pulls rather than LE pulls now, hence why i think making EB pulls more consistent throughout the pools is a good idea in response to this change

[mental schooner]

it already relies a lot on the eb

like ingame currently

[worldly sparrow]

even before this change, i- yeah

but the LE still provided a significant boost

albeit more randomly

[tight owl]

@tribal sequoia @snow cosmos something something "Anni isn't the only way to make money" 🤔

[mental schooner]

why is that a terminated ping

[tight owl]

We were talking about annihilation and I thought it would be funny

Like last night I think

I'm not pissed at them but it's actually hilarious that the exact point shadow made gets undercut by this change a day later ahahaha

[latent reef]

Counter point annihilation is hard to keep track of sometimes

[drowsy harness]

https://tenor.com/view/troll-gif-26178840

[tight owl]

Ahahaha no I'm being serious Shadow literally said "Anni isn't the only way to make money" and heavily implied raids as a viable alternative and now raids are getting nerfed.

The comedic timing of this patch is god tier

[pure solstice]

it got nerfed so idk if they are going to revert that

[mental schooner]

raids are still a viable alternative 👍

[tight owl]

They absolutely are, I don't believe that raid money is gonna go from 2le a run to 16eb, but the comedic timing of this patch is still fucking great. Genuinely made me go into a coughing fit lmaoo

[wooden plover]

damn, unfortunate

[latent reef]

Why didn’t you just increase the chances of getting 2le rolls tho

Decrease*

[short sequoia]

the appropriate extension of this humour is to replace all LE in anni rewad chest with EB :^)

[tight owl]

Me when my brother in law (who is very very racist and phobic) says he's an expert at politics and would be an amazing president

[tight owl]

https://tenor.com/view/fade-away-oooooooooooo-aga-emoji-crumble-gif-20008708

[tight owl]

Imagine everyone doing Annie and they get no le or ev even, they just get like 3 stacks of broken dungeon keys 💀

[short sequoia]

https://tenor.com/reWbu9sjCtl.gif

[sand cloud]

mythics maybe not but items needed for mythic builds massively inflated like ringlets going from 7le to 32le or insus/simus doubling in price

[drowsy harness]

yeah but now youre implying that raids are gonna be dogshit now which they def wont be

i get your point though

[sand cloud]

Suspicious Crate farming new meta?

[tight owl]

I figured it was gonna be a slight tweak, yeah, didn't mean to imply they would become that bad. It's the timing of it all that I find really funny

[pure solstice]

people don't farm items, thats the problem and ringlets farm is gatekeeped, this would be solved if the web could anounces places to farm items or leveled items

[sand cloud]

people definitely grind items, theres like 30 unid ringlets on market atm and the previous location was pretty well known

people were straight up shouting to go to cots

[mellow hill]

whoever is doing patchnotes is like purposefully presenting information in the most controvertial way i swear

[edgy fossil]

someone pinged them in mystery thread so they clarified there

[mellow hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1155296858692911145/1300105386384162906/ragnnihilation.gif

[coarse ore]

so is nol getting compensation

[edgy fossil]

i agree

[tight owl]

What's the location again

[solid oasis]

Not the champion moneymaking again

It was soo dark before 2.0.3

[coarse ore]

once again back to ing and item grinding

(tbh i still am clueless where people actually grind now)

tho im always gapped by buyers in market anyways

[solid oasis]

That kinda sounds like they grind ringlets while grinding stolen goods but im neither a proffa nor a champion so just my speculation

[coarse ore]

i dont even go after ringlets nowadays

[edgy fossil]

funny mob grinding

i used to do ringlets but i didnt find the market the best so i left to go to other ones

[sand cloud]

bandits toll is the main one ive seen after the cots nerf but there r others in corkus and cotl and some other around the map

[solid oasis]

What’s the full name of cots

[edgy fossil]

cave of the seasons
rol cave

[solid oasis]

ohh

[sand cloud]

they omega nerfed the drop rate of mobs in the cave (which is weird since theyre supposed to drop a new item???)

[solid oasis]

😔

The ing grinding market is so dark

[edgy fossil]

it is not i provide some of them!!! that i will NOT say so my monopoly is not disturbed

[sand cloud]

i thank god every day that the ing market is like 2 people

[coarse ore]

Watery aura isnt too bad but doesnt make too well

Still is my goto when i am lazy

when im not uh…7consus

[edgy fossil]

funny

i like RotR since sometimes it get stagnent and i can just loop voidstone area for some during prof

[coarse ore]

Did they fix hoarder asking for pinot

[edgy fossil]

no idea! mine is on ahmsord absenthine brew or w/e it was called
i havent seen him yetwith the new skin

[elfin bluff]

That's just a fat lie

You don't average 8 raw le even with 3 gambits in a guild raid

Raid rewards are already super underwhelming for an average player

To get any real money out of raids you need to play consistently with good parties that most ppl don't have

And even then the rewards are by no means crazy

You don't see raiders be rich very often while every 2nd lootrun main has crazy amounts of money

It's unfair to compare cuz lr gives you mythics and raids give you money and blah blah blah but from perspective of a player, raids are already not very appealing if you don't need aspects

Now raids' only viability is aspects and people who enjoy raids too much out of personal reasons

The rewards are like. Cosmetic. Lol.

[unreal badger]

holy shit another tcc nerf

idk how it is a good idea to even nerf your only endgame activity

[serene needle]

I just want to point this out quickly

yall are just making ice cubes

step back a bit maybe

your self-worth is not tied to how many LE an hour you can make

[queen star]

the most long winded "its not that deep" ive ever seen

[worldly sparrow]

lol

[small yew]

i love being dirt poor and relying on my lr main coop to get money for builds 😍

[serene needle]

hmmm well lucky you we're adding an alternative money-making method

[unreal badger]

LMFAO 80% of your playbase has "stepped back" from the game already LMFAOLMFAOI

[serene needle]

as if we don't have access to the actual numbers.

[small yew]

i play raids solely for fun atp so ive been alot less active probably not gonna slave away at the void coral reefs D:

[queen star]

dude saying "its a coincidence were nerfing the premier method of wealth generation" and then immediately telling people to go do endgame seavale is WILD lmfao why cant wealth generation just be from doing the things we like xd

[small yew]

also the last 2 weeks of tna pool were depressing but thats not really related to em nerfs

[unreal badger]

ok so what are the numbers then?

[serene needle]

you're right that it is kinda a crazy coincidence but don't get into the conspiracy pit, sometimes coincidences are just coincidences

[lofty knoll]

selvut do CT have the number of emeralds injected into the economy (i.e. raw LE from raids) vs. emeralds taxed (i.e. TM tax and NPC shops)

if u cant speak to it thats fine

[queen star]

i dont think its the case at all, i just dont think it comes off well when youre trying to show good faith that when people are upset youre reducing their income from doing an activity they enjoy, you go and tell them "its ok you can do this new thing were adding thats far less interactive and completely unrelated to the gameplay loop you spend so much time on this server for"

[worldly sparrow]

^^^

[serene needle]

were they specifically complaining about raid money? it looked in their message like they were complaining about lootruns

[elfin bluff]

Raids even before barely provided enough money for me to keep up with trying new builds and while I don't raid 10h/day I'm still above your average pfinder guy so that guy has it even worse

[queen star]

i thought he was joking that now that raids are losing effctiveness hell have to leech off his guildmates who lr to make money, one of us may have misunderstood lol

[tight owl]

When did u get a new PFP I didn't notice

[elfin bluff]

You're forcing all the people who don't enjoy playing the same thing for 20 decades into doing other activities to afford smth else

[serene needle]

if I misunderstood I misunderstood, but it came off to me as them saying they didn't like making money off either

n then even said they only do raids for fun anyway

[elfin bluff]

It's moreso that people who don't like anything but raids are forced to either play the same thing for a longer time or go out of their comfort zone to get money

[solid oasis]

Consider the difficulty of pf and the reward nerf after damn i will just outer void if i am not a aspect fanatic(i am not)

[coarse ore]

So chat how frequents the 2le pay just so we can know what to expect soon

[elfin bluff]

Not the money to buy top mythics, the money to just buy sufficient items for new and fun builds

[sand cloud]

After the patch, [SEQ] visited an orphanage in Taipei. "It's heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope", said Charlie, age 6.

[serene needle]

I'm fairly sure someone calculated the actual money loss to be around 15% at worst

[tight owl]

That's not all that terrible honestly

[coarse ore]

Bleh hurts but ig bearable then

Nothing bad as chrono being nuked(well it was for the good but)

[serene needle]

yeah. it's a lot of overreaction. it's less, sure, but people are acting as if it's impossible to get anything now

[elfin bluff]

It wasn't great to begin with I don't see why it had to get worse
Ik it did for consistency but also wouldn't there be other ways to achieve the same result without an effective nerf

[serene needle]

such as?

[tight owl]

Mission that gives you random major IDs when

[worldly sparrow]

compensate the LE reduction with icnreased EB pulls?

[serene needle]

So, not nerf it at all?

[coarse ore]

compensate nol

[worldly sparrow]

never said fully

[tight owl]

Worse actually cause we get less tomes no?

[elfin bluff]

Such as having a pool always roll 2le but at a lower rate, or buff eb instead, the possibilities to mess around with rng are endless

[serene needle]

Just eat other pulls with a lesser reward in sufficient enough numbers to make up entirely for the nerf while reducing the amount of other rewards you can get from raids that you're intended to be focusing on?

[coarse ore]

Isnt the only hit this time 2le being gone n replaced by 1le

[queen star]

"its not a big deal" arguments are an insane double edged sword, CT are the ones that put the time and effort into making the change, if its "not a big deal" surely you wouldnt have gone to the lengths of putting it through

[serene needle]

you're conflating two different definitions of a "big deal"

[pliant lion]

Are you saying those items aren't going to get cheaper given that people are making less money?

[coarse ore]

Anyways my bigger concerns the thread above where cbomb may not have gone through playtesting

[serene needle]

"big deal" as in something which required a lot of effort to perform
vs
"big deal" as in something which is impactful

[elfin bluff]

.. no? Why would they
The only people getting poorer are raiders and they're not the entirety or majority of the community

[twilit widget]

Permission number #4 **.sm utility disable ** is preventing this action.

[serene needle]

and in both definitions it is not a big deal
the effect is, although in a direction we view as healthy, pretty minor
and it also is not difficult for us to have done

[tight owl]

If the -15% average money pull isn't a super huge difference then why was it pushed anyway? What was the motivation behind this one in particular? I don't think anyone was saying that raids were an absurdly strong money farming method

[serene needle]

the effect is, although in a direction we view as healthy, pretty minor

[elfin bluff]

That is it's own issue with the game not giving us the full rewards we're owed and it needs its own fixing
Not very related to this case

[tight owl]

Ahhh. Yeah that's fair. Encourage more diversity in experiencing the game instead of focusing on just making money

[pliant lion]

well it's not like there are really other methods that make a lot of raw le (maybe annie? though that only occurs once every few days. Lootrunning definitely doesn't). If everyone has less raw le then nobody will be able to pay at current prices and the prices will go will go down

[elfin bluff]

Raids were already the money making method for those who prefer fun over money tho

[sand cloud]

M isn't going to decrease because of this change so price level shouldn't go down

[queen star]

"big deal" as in a 15% nerf is something worth putting energy into

"big deal" as in players find that big a change to be something worth making a commotion over

our understandings of importance are cut from the same cloth, if you dont think its important you wouldnt change it, same as we wouldnt think its worth being difficult over

[mellow hill]

who has the recent annie gif

[queen star]

could you explain this? maybe youre getting something im not

[serene needle]

bringing it down further to RNG is not something players would want, I feel like I can say that with confidence. giving them still a chance to get the mney but a significantly lower one and eating up space with lesser reward pulls...people have constantly complained about chaff in the reward pools so like...you're kinda asking us to do something that people have historically complained about in order to make null the change we want to make

[tight owl]

fun over money

Wait so what was the alternative for those who have no soul? Lootruns?

[coarse ore]

item grinding market manipulation discord tm lowballing lootrunning

[elfin bluff]

There's also an option to just plain buff all eb rewards by a bit, which won't take up any more slot or bring any more rng

[elfin bluff]

Yeah lr is generally the money slaving hole

[queen star]

lootruns profs ing farming reselling and doing certain world events on repeat are all better forms of wealth generation, they are infinitely less fun though

[serene needle]

Aaaand if the point is to reduce the overall amount of money received, why would we want to increase the amount of money received

[wild ibex]

guys were gon be making a le less per run were so cooked this game is cooked this is literally unplayable!!!!!

[coarse ore]

if we had like custom pools per graid addition, gambit addition things would be abit more balanced

[sand cloud]

a 15% decrease to raid le is not going to cause deflation 😭

[mellow hill]

prices will adjust to reduced emerald income, literally nothing has changed

[serene needle]

like I said, you're kinda asking us to do something that people have historically complained about in order to make null the change we want to make

[wild ibex]

^^^^^

[elfin bluff]

From what I've heard from lexnt the point was to remove the inconsistency between 2le and 1le weeks
I can't confirm or deny whether she said smth about a nerf but I didn't get the feeling that it's the main focus

[tight owl]

Oh god. That sounds painful. Yeah I'd much rather participate in fun+challenging content ahaah

[serene needle]

"big deal" as in a 15% nerf is something worth putting energy into

yes, I said as much. the effect is, although in a direction we view as healthy, pretty minor, and it also is not difficult for us to have done.

"big deal" as in players find that big a change to be something worth making a commotion over

it is a pretty minor change overall and people are overstating how much of an effect it will have. this kind of "big deal" is equivalent to "making mountains out of molehills"

[mellow hill]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/262010576295821312/1319627313054486569/caption.gif?=

found it

[solid oasis]

Not this gif lmao

[pliant lion]

I mean it makes other methods of generating le closer to raids but idk I feel like that's a good thing if any

[serene needle]

the nerf is in fact a part of the focus. consistency was also a notable part, but the intend was very much for there to be a nerf in the amount of money received on average

[solid oasis]

That gif doesn’t make any sense here but its so funny

[elfin bluff]

Dam ppl still won't get off selvut even after he gave up balancing
Duh

[serene needle]

yeah, their obsession is pretty sad. I should charge them rent

[sand cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/spelling-mistake-minor-spelling-mistake-meme-gif-23650588

[elfin bluff]

And I'd argue that the nerf is unnecessary as raids were never op to begin with but it won't change much anyway now I fear

[serene needle]

now, there's where you're making an incorrect assumption

[wild ibex]

they did feel mad op with how easy they are

[serene needle]

something doesn't need to be super overpowered for it to still need reining in

[mellow hill]

lootruns are already miles ahead for making money, and what reducing income of raids does is make them even better by comparison. but it is to an insignificant degree

[serene needle]

something doesn't need to be insane for a change to still be healthy

[pliant lion]

generating le, not making money

[elfin bluff]

It's a raid issue, not a reward issue tho (looking at you the crayon eating colossus)

[unreal badger]

?

[mellow hill]

no?

[wild ibex]

notg is also insanely easy

[mellow hill]

raids generate way more raw le

[serene needle]

assuming that it was a matter of raids being overpowered in terms of money rather than us just trying to shift focus and bring in some more consistency is an incorrect assumption and it colors your expectations badly

[elfin bluff]

Yeah well. Notg just needs a graid boss buff to tcc levels so all loot goblins quit it tbh

[native latch]

0 gambit at 105 gets like 5le

[coarse ore]

noo

[wild ibex]

word, graid notg feels like normal notg

[pliant lion]

Ok I think one of us misunderstood, I agree with this

[native latch]

that ain’t right

[jovial hamlet]

?

[coarse ore]

notg was and is still where hmelee shade somewhat works...

[worldly sparrow]

def not

[unreal badger]

tccers rise up (there are none)

[elfin bluff]

It's different actually, graid dies faster since it grows more segments

[native latch]

ok welp guess i got lucky

repeatedly

[coarse ore]

tho notg also were bombed by cbombs

[small yew]

real data of raid emeralds coming soon to a thread near you

[elfin bluff]

Cbomb by far not the best notg dps
It's just good ig

[native latch]

if true tysm

[coarse ore]

its good and pretty safe id say

[versed igloo]

does anyone even think this raw le nerf will be followed by cheaper mythics in tm

[coarse ore]

no

[versed igloo]

or will poor be poorer

[solid oasis]

na

[small yew]

no

[serene needle]

well considering a bunch of people have argued that in this thread I'd say yes some people do think that

[elfin bluff]

I don't see why it would

[unreal badger]

yall forgot to factor in
queue times
intermission times
raid failues
people not knowing what they are doing

[onyx walrus]

Maybe slightly (5%)

[queen star]

im comparing the two, you cant simultaniously have an interest in something and think people are irrational for taking interest in the same thing thats blatantly hypocritical, if its important enough to change from your perspective, its important enough for players to have an issue with you changing

i understand that 15% is in the grand scheme is not a massive hit, but it is large enough that it substantially lowers the bottom line for people who want to raid and pushes raids even further below the other methods of wealth generation in the endgame when they are by far the most fun.

thank you for replying by the way i appreciate your effort in responding to our questions even when youve taken a step back.

[solid oasis]

The dupers will keep duping and nothing will change

[coarse ore]

insu simu prices never recovered from pre 2.1 prices

[solid oasis]

🗣️

[onyx walrus]

I think part of that is just the addition of annie mythics and has nothing to do with the le ngl. They cost so much people are gonna buy more simus and insus to reroll them

[elfin bluff]

I don't think this change will affect eco globally tbh, but for medium tier raiders it'll be unnecessarily annoying imo

[solid oasis]

^

[mellow hill]

i am buying out the simu market

[queen star]

this ^ the eco is already so flooded from dupes and other things that all this does is hurt the bottom line of people who raid for fun, instead of being able to buy like a decent mythic a week its now a week and a day ro two xd

[versed igloo]

ever since lootrun update i think its fair to say existing mythics have continued to drop things like shinies are more like trophy stuff so i dont think that'll ever change much

[sand cloud]

insu simu are also getting flipped a lot which increases market price

[slender prairie]

@mental schooner how about this? Does it sound right?
If you have maxed out an aspect, Those aspect will no longer be obtained but instead of overflowing it will provide you other aspects which are not maxed yet. Once every aspect is maxed out 1 aspect pull is converted into 1 rewards pull.
Btw no I haven't avg 8 le anymore since 2.1.0 graid I have been doing pf raid and I was getting 30-48 eb -- 1-3 le per run.

[spare olive]

yea thats a little crazy this was last week's tna pool at 3 gambits because there were so many 8eb pulls

[versed igloo]

yeah im curious what the normal player experience is for new raiders lol

[serene needle]

well, you're kinda pulling my words out to mean something different here. I don't think people shouldn't take an interest in it, I think that people are overstating how much of a difference it makes. that's what I've been saying, people are doomsaying and exaggerating the potential effects of this which is what I'm railing against.

like, yeah. you're right that a 15% reduction will have some effects, but a lot of people in this thread were saying there was now no point in raids and OBVIOUSLY this meant they wanted us all to go to outer void and make money THERE as the most efficient option and how could we the entire CT possibly think this was a good idea when people enjoy raids and etc etc.

[elfin bluff]

As selvut said, this change won't be a big deal, more of an inconvenience for your average pf raida
I just don't see in what sense it's healthy for consistency because raids were already largely falling behind lootruns in terms of money

[sand cloud]

theyre already tracking overflow aspects and theres already plans for scrapping them

[solid oasis]

Shit still funny that a duper used alt giving dupe dbreaks to minipcpro when he was straming

[serene needle]

this is very specifically raw money generation rather than taking into account the potential value from other item drops, such as finding mythics in lootruns or getting fabled accs or corkian augments out of raids or anything along those lines. creating new money going into the economy rather than moving money that already exists through the economy

you should take that into account that player-to-player sales don't add money, they just move money

and what we were hitting here is adding money

[queen star]

if you want to focus on the people who are being irrational about it and doomposting yeah youre totally right, there are alot of people here just looking to have good discussion over it though that, myself included, feel lumped in with those overreacting when you say things generally like "yall are making ice cubes maybe step back a bit" if that wasnt your intention that may be my bad but i dont think im alone in feeling like this was aimed at everyone not just the bad actors

[versed igloo]

is the trade market tax & rerolling of mythics not already enough to compensate for raw le generation currently?

[onyx walrus]

Are there any plans to add some form of compensation that isn't just emeralds

[serene needle]

yeah that was aimed at the people who were obsessing over optimization and losing their minds over the change rather than anything else

[elfin bluff]

Yeah in the grand scheme of things chances are it's a good thing but I don't have the data to speak on that so I just say the avg player pov
Altho this makes me think amps or powders could see a buff to compensate without ruining the original purpose
They'll drop in price probably but maybe it'll still be more profit

[serene needle]

I say all this as someone who was not involved in these plans, but was aware of and agreed with these plans, so I can't say because I don't know

[sand cloud]

no those are pretty small em sinks, m1 is still increasing by a lot (esp with anni + raids)

and if you're doing p2p trades you can go around tm tax with /trade

[queen star]

i appreciate you taking the time to clear things up then thank you

[versed igloo]

i suppose so yeah in the grand scheme of things

[serene needle]

yeah. there's a lot of people who take it as a personal affront when their PHAT STAX MACHINE slows down even a fraction of a fraction, those're the people who are just making ice cubes

[versed igloo]

still feel like the damage has already been done with 2.1 bringing in tons of raw le via first week of anni + other world events

[sand cloud]

yeah itll b pretty hard for players in early game / fresh into endgame to get the same level of wealth as players who were here when 2.1 dropped

but u can still do it with lring and getting the gamba chests opened disco

[wild ibex]

no shit

[serene needle]

people who are questioning the point or just trying to get some answers as to why, people who aren't overexaggerating for the sake of getting us to just immediately revert cause they don't like the sound of it, that's fine

[queen star]

i mean, as the post said, playing rpgs made him develope that mindset to begin with, its just something about grindy games that makes people want to optimize them as much as possible, its 100% the enviroment that leads to this stuff happening, the ct nerfing something is like your fridge running out of power for a couple hours, the only issue i really see is that unlike your fridge running out of power, people see the ct as somewhere to direct anger towards for it

[elder glade]

is there a tldr on reasoning

[sand cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/lightskin-master-lightskin-prestige-lightskinned-light-skin-dude-light-skin-guy-gif-25457550

[queen star]

lower overall LE going into the economy and make LE less variable (they are nerfing emerald drops by removing the ability for 2 le drops to appear in pools)

[versed igloo]

i can agree to an extent its a small change in the grand scheme of things but you can't really predict how people will react when emeralds are tied to almost every source of enjoyment in wynn

[serene needle]

yeah. that last bit is why i stepped back and left the IM/AT teams. not just cause people were attacking me but also cause people were using the things i said as an excuse to attack OTHER PEOPLE to the point of giving them actual fuckin mental crises due to how incessantly and aggressively they were being hounded

waaaay more the latter than the former

[elder glade]

so tldr to reduce inflation

[wild ibex]

this is one of the best changes I've seen in a while i odtn get why is so many ppl complaining

[sand cloud]

no fr

[elder glade]

increase wealth gap ?

[wild ibex]

😮

[lethal mountain]

Rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It's all part of Tealy's schemes

[queen star]

it must seem that way when you already have all the money you could ever need, your spending power goes up with no downside lmfao

[versed igloo]

wealth gap already gone lol if i learned anything from trying out all source of le generation you just need to know where the money flows and keep swapping to the current best thing

[spare olive]

mythic prices should go up

[elder glade]

but how

[spare olive]

i wonder how this can be achieved.......

maybe adding more raw into the economy ?

[serene needle]

for what it's worth I do think that people will enjoy outer void if they give it a chance and don't immediately get a wee bit of bad luck and write it off. and at barest minimum there's the given incentive of items being gotten out of the outer void, so there is at least that much

[onyx walrus]

I forgot if I asked this already but does the team have an estimate of how good it is as a money-making method in comparison to raids?

[versed igloo]

im all in for new sorts of endgame activities

[wild ibex]

atleast you won't get blamed for it lmao (they might

[queen star]

they should be going up because chrono was nerfed, but this will also make a force dragging them down a bit, i think chrono is an infinitely bigger deal than removing 2 le spawns from chests so its still going to trend towards mythics getting more expensive

[serene needle]

nah, I talked about it so therefore it is entirely my fault even though I only had the most ancillary of involvement, nope

[lethal mountain]

Selvut could stop being CT and still get blamed for it LMAO

[queen star]

he already has and he already is

[wild ibex]

word

[versed igloo]

can the outer void have a new set of mythic weps

[queen star]

stop

[wild ibex]

he left Im and at, not ct

[spare olive]

alright bro

[serene needle]

in these peoples minds if I've touched it at all then I did every single thing within and therefore am to blame for any and every possible bad thing connected to it and it should be removed entirely, my name and influence scrubbed from the annals

[sand cloud]

the new jpresent

[coarse ore]

Btw how far ups the progress on changing mobs dmgs to half ele or so

[serene needle]

and because I contributed a handful of things, even though none of them are to do with its mechanics, that means tealy did zero work, no one did any work on it except me, I built the entire thing with my own two hands, scored them to the bone creating this thing but did everything wrong and therefore my work is for nothing and I'm a terrible human being who doesn't deserve to exist, or something

they really give me way too much credit in their attempts to discredit me and find a way to justify their insistence that I should just die

like I said, I live in their heads rent-free. maybe they'll kick me out if I start charging them rent for being there like a luxury tax or somethin

[lethal mountain]

We're just living in SelvutCraft

[serene needle]

also I know the people who were working on it calculated out the money values of it very carefully, but I wasn't involved in testing or those calculations, so I don't know what the values are

[elfin bluff]

I would've put up an evil villain image in public if I were in that spot ngl it sounds too funny to miss the opportunity

[elder glade]

wait so the logic is to reduce le flow into the economy to cause deflation, meaning things will generally cost less?

[sand cloud]

that shit not happening

[lethal mountain]

Basically, it's to make the value of LE higher

[elder glade]

i don't see the point though, since that'll just mean people with money will have more buying power; and since there's a lot of raw in the economy the change will take ages to happen

might as well make taxes scale exponentially

[serene needle]

It was felt that raids gave a bit too much money, and the amount of money given was also somewhat inconsistent. The amount of money gave took away from the presence of other raid rewards given out, so higher value LE rewards reliant on chance were reduced to their lower values(rewards that could have been either 1 LE or 2 LE are now just 1 LE always, leading to a roughly 15% reduction in maximum possible reward)

[sand cloud]

a 15% nerf to raid le wont make le more valuable

[brave gull]

uhh i just saw someone saying getting 8le per game avg, but im getting 3le with 3 gambits what

[wild ibex]

baby steps

[lethal mountain]

I mean, it won't give you much less than you're already getting then!

[lethal mountain]

Dreaming of the day there are tax brackets in wynn

[small yew]

8 isnt real

[serene needle]

I keep seein people saying that, but I just checked- and the majority of reactions on Tealy's "how much raw LE do you get" poll... the most common choice was 0-8

[lethal mountain]

per hour though

[serene needle]

as in, any value between those numbers, not exclusively its maximum

so citing that as purely its maximum range is disingenuous and creates a lot of unnecessary confusion

but people keep saying 8

as if 4 LE is not between 0-8 LE, as if 2 LE is not between 0-8 LE, as if 32 EB is not between 0-8 LE

[lethal mountain]

The issue is that Tealy's survey was measure in LE/Hr, so people were getting 8LE/Hr. Now, is that actually true? Can't imagine unless you're running a 2-3 raids every hour. If you were to take the average of the Raiding LE, then that's probably where a lot of the numbers came from. Especially the "8 LE per raid."

[queen star]

lexnt was the one that used this number first just so you know

[lethal mountain]

People were getting 32+ LE/Hr

[mental schooner]

i was wrong on the 8 le number

[elder glade]

that number isn't really real, there's like 4 parties on the planet that can get those rates

[lethal mountain]

Neither is 0-8 LE/Hr

[queen star]

were doing some testign of our own il share later but its seeming like the only thing that consistantly does 8+ is 3 gambit TNA graid

[wild ibex]

^

[lethal mountain]

Unless you're actively losing that many raids, you should get between yellow and orange I feel

[mental schooner]

it depends on the rolls in the loot pool each week

id imagine tna has a lot of 2 le stacks rn

[sand cloud]

cant you just calculate EV with x pulls if you have the drop rates and the occurrence rates in lootpool?

[queen star]

my bad i meant to say NOL lmfao

[mental schooner]

oh

[small yew]

2 2 2 1 atm

[mental schooner]

well yeah nol makes more sense

[small yew]

with no 8 eb roll aswell its goated

[spare olive]

those 8eb pulls have to go bro

[mental schooner]

nol had boosted le stacks (which i think were possibly too high overall)

[queen star]

yeah nol makes sense but i just think whoever gave u that number probably got lucky on NOL a feww times and just went with it

[mental schooner]

whats avg pulls for a 3 gambit graid

[spare olive]

it depends on the week

[mental schooner]

pulls?

pulls shouldnt

be changing

lol

[spare olive]

oh nvm

[elder glade]

33 if you don't die

[small yew]

assuming no deaths 33 yes

[mental schooner]

with old numbers, the average (this is not accounting for which stacks are in the pool on a given week) seems to be 4.5

[lofty knoll]

lets say, hypothetically, a group is doing TNA in 6 minutes on average pretty consistently. This is a pretty good time for an organized group but not the best. So, every hour, this group is completing 10 TNA runs. Lets say that on a good week, each run averages 3 LE. 10 runs per hour * 3 LE per run = 30 LE / hour

[mental schooner]

swings higher or lower depending on which stacks are available

[small yew]

doing 6 minute average tna runs for an hour is much harder than most people think

[mental schooner]

new numbers drop it to like 3.9

[elder glade]

yeah so a grand total of like 4 parties on the planet; i was running a party of 3 leaderboarders and an experienced player like four seconds ago and we probably had 6 minute runs

[small yew]

(including downtime and transition time btw)

run time but totals to around 5mins due to 1min30 ish rooms 30s downtime 🤷

and this is with the best set of tna rooms and a high dps party so its not consistent whatsoever

[spare olive]

eh thats like a normal run if nothing goes terribly wrong

with room for runs that do go terribly wrong

[brave gull]

thats crazy

[small yew]

with downtime!!!

[spare olive]

ya thats what i mean, downtime is big, but 6 mins is still reasonable

[mental schooner]

the direction for raid rewards is probably to aim for more consistency, but that's... a little difficult to accomplish

with how the reward pulls system functions

[elder glade]

a 6 minute raid anyone can do, a 6 minute run is not happening without actual players

[brave gull]

buff 1le chances 😄

[spare olive]

i need 8eb rolls gone

[mental schooner]

numbers are for non-nol raids, nol has different stack sizes and i dont feel like calcing it

[small yew]

it did sound reasonable on paper yeah but once you start tallying your raids you realize its usually alot slower

[spare olive]

im thinking about runs that are 3-4mins with 1:30 downtime

[small yew]

anyways other raids are generally slower so ye

[small yew]

its hard to say cus tna rooms are inconsistent especially 2nd

[spare olive]

truth

[wise sphinx]

Obviously it should be higher than pre 2.1 since 2.1 raids are harder

[mental schooner]

and i said right after that thats fine

[drowsy harness]

id like to state for the record that my poll wasnt made with this change in mind

my hands are clean i swear

[pure solstice]

yes but also the argument of 8 le per raid is not correct

[lofty knoll]

it was for the new money source right? I assume its gunna be better for money than all of the current sources rn

[pure solstice]

a solution to low emerald rates could be also by eliminating 8 eb drop in the loot

[drowsy harness]

yeah it was, and no it'll prob be similar to or slightly lower than raids

[lofty knoll]

oh it will be interesting finding out whats compensating for that then

[drowsy harness]

it requires no gear, no runes, and not really too much attention. Its moreso meant as a relaxing alternative to other combat focused ways of making money

it actually stemmed from when 2.1 released ppl who used to grind rare mobs were upset about the afk thing messing them up

I thought, huh, yeah there actually arent that many money options that arent heavy combat or profs (very high commitment)

so i concepted outer void

[lofty knoll]

very cool

[elder glade]

does it take away gear? or just no req

[drowsy harness]

nothings gonna kill you there

[elder glade]

i mean like will the zone disable gear

because warp

[mental schooner]

no, but it disables spells and abilities

[arctic sparrow]

i am not because they overflow

do we not have actual data on avg le gained from raiding? not cool smh

[jovial hamlet]

working on it dont worry, alrdy got ppl on board just to do this B)B)B)

[wise sphinx]

Real

No actual data for avg LE gain is wild

[coarse ore]

I swear to god if this also disables horses i will cry

Horses has been banned in so many places 😭

[ocean hazel]

It probably Will

Unless they want horse to be finally useful

[coarse ore]

:(

[tribal roost]

What do you think people play raids for after they max out the aspect? Aside with playing with others, then money ofc, what do you think why we play raids? Tome can't get perfect rolls because Mythic tomes that have actual uses are dealing with abysmal chance to drop. There is a guy in my guild saying that he grinded tcc for 100 times but not a single hpr tome dropped for him.

[mental schooner]

um. well im going to be real with you i dont think horses would do much for you in the outer void

[coarse ore]

:(

[mental schooner]

i will present you with this image and you can put the pieces together yourself from there

[ocean hazel]

Oh wait... Teleport between Islands

[coarse ore]

Ngl considering the terrain id love to use horses to get up imstead of jumping 24/7

surely, surely…

[ocean hazel]

Ngl am i the only one happy about the ems nerf?
So that we have
1 activity to grind mythics
1 activity to grind Aspects
And now 1 activity to grind le

Said this, we all need to wait to see how much le/h we talking about
If its less then 32le/h it may become an useless activity

[brave gull]

what

[ocean hazel]

Mh?

40 like and 9 dislike

that means most people agree that they should have not nerfed ems from raids

[solid oasis]

wth

Will walk speed be disabled also

[distant shale]

I'd love to go around those with grapple hook

unfortunate that you can't

unless there is a grapple hook there

[mortal basin]

will jump height be disabled too?

[distant shale]

I believe it was said IDs in general are

not 100% though

[mortal basin]

so it is just the rift in wynn?

[wild ibex]

15% ems nerf how dare they do this raids are now unplayable I'm quitting!!!!!!!!1!!

[ocean hazel]

Ngl it would be funny af if they allowed all movements spells but have them nerfed

But i mean, lets wait to see what they have cooked

Tealy managed this project, and tealy never disappointed me with his projects, so i have high hopes

[distant shale]

yeah well tealy works on wynncraft and wynncraft sucks!!! nah I'm kidding

[void ermine]

not reading allat but from what i know the problem are emeralds from graids so why nerf pf ones where raids are slower due to downtime and less consistent cuz you dont know if you get meta slave fallen or acro doing 50k dps

[wild ibex]

this thread is crazy ppl mad bout this nerf that won't really be noticeable n surprisingly it's a good and balanced one

[wild ibex]

its not just graids it's raids in general

[short sequoia]

Walk speed, jump height, spells and abilities are all disabled.

[ocean hazel]

Are there gonna be some special abilities to compensate?

I would love a grappling hook to move around

[wild ibex]

Wynn roguelike

[distant shale]

Theres custom movement

[ocean hazel]

I want grappling hook.

I want to feel like spiderman moving from island to island

[distant shale]

play archer, goober!

[wild ibex]

I think tealy said it was pretty chill

[distant shale]

<- clueless

[ocean hazel]

Because ig there are no mobs and you cannot die? And ig no time limit

you just go there, move from island to island and get items, go sell them, repeat (i assume)

[short sequoia]

Find out and see on the 30th :^)

[distant shale]

I'm just waiting for wynncraft to have a scaling piece of content that you can make go crazy even if the rewards are literally nothing, i want something absurdly difficult to run at 🔥

[ocean hazel]

You guys are evil to make us wait 2 days >:(

[wild ibex]

no like uhhh idk how to explain n I can't be bothered to look for the message

[ocean hazel]

Oh they alr said something about this?

[wild ibex]

yea

[short sequoia]

This is because the ct suffers a form of collective sadism

[wild ibex]

I mean, he made comparisons that's it

[ocean hazel]

Reqs to become a mod:

• Have 0 hours played in the last 4 weeks and champion
  Reqs to become a CT:
• Being sadistic

[wild ibex]

0hrs and champion

[ocean hazel]

fr

[distant shale]

fun story as a mod you have champion passives so I had level 100 pets as a hero rank, i never brought it up when I left being a mod because like it doesn't do anything

i mentioned it and I was given champion rank lmao

[short sequoia]

Woah there, don't put the activity bar so high! It suffices to first join with the start of the job

[distant shale]

I have no idea who gave it to me

(I appreciate it, I just found it funny)

[ocean hazel]

Changelog: 2 weeks -> 4 weeks

[mellow hill]

wait what is the point if everything is disabled

tcc parkour?

coz uh..

[ocean hazel]

It will have custom movements

[jovial hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/get-a-load-of-this-guy-look-at-this-dude-linus-linus-tech-tips-ltt-gif-24981074

[mellow hill]

Texilated, Third Movement

[jovial hamlet]

this you? btw

I dont think you raid enough to the point that you can make an arguement

[ocean hazel]

Someone said that the nerf is of only about 15%

[jovial hamlet]

nah bro scroll up hes been hattin about this thread

[wild ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/262010576295821312/1249885448252293173/ezgif.com-animated-gif-maker_4.gif

[ocean hazel]

I hope we can all agree that, 15% nerf is not a lot

[jovial hamlet]

how is that not a lot btw?

[wild ibex]

u got me there buddy u cooked me ass nice one!!

[ocean hazel]

and honestly, balanced considering we are gonna have 1 entire new activity that will generate a lot of raw le

[jovial hamlet]

ofc just stating facts ya kno

[ocean hazel]

How much you make per hour, 45le/h?

[mellow hill]

facts

[jovial hamlet]

hell no

[ocean hazel]

1stx?

[small yew]

less

[jovial hamlet]

less than a stx for sure

[ocean hazel]

I'm talking per hour, in avg considering downtime

[small yew]

oops accidental reply sorry

[ocean hazel]

So also the time spent looking for a party

[jovial hamlet]

considering downttime its less than 45le

[ocean hazel]

lets assume 40le/h?

[small yew]

adding a new activity doesnt really balance out the raid ems nerf

[jovial hamlet]

yep

[small yew]

cus raiders will still lose whatever they're losing

[wild ibex]

🤯

[small yew]

not sure how realistic 40 will be but once the avg numbers from now come out we'll see ig

[ocean hazel]

15% of 40le is 6le
So you getting 34le/h instead of 40le/h

[wild ibex]

it's not like u get items and tomes u can sell🤔

[lusty wind]

There wont be anymore incentives to grind raids once people are closer to maxing out aspects

[jovial hamlet]

^

[jovial hamlet]

raid more then talk later

[wild ibex]

wowwww calm down alpha male

[ocean hazel]

Lets assume you want to buy a warp, 10stx mythic
Before nerf 16 hours to get 10stx
After nerf 18 hours to get 10stx

[jovial hamlet]

thats raiding non stop bttw not realistic

[ocean hazel]

Considering downtime

[small yew]

downtime depends on the party

[jovial hamlet]

that numbers are just not realistic tech

[ocean hazel]

Give me a more realistic number

[wild ibex]

raiding unplayable content not worth it anymore!!!

[short sequoia]

This is so peak wtf

[ocean hazel]

I asked to you how many le/h you make considering downtime, and you agreed on 40le/h

[jovial hamlet]

i never agreed on anything?

[ocean hazel]

Oh that yep was about bowpotat?

[small yew]

oh oops me when i troll the convo

[ocean hazel]

Oh well, that just shows in anycase how little 15% really is

also you have to consider the influx of le we are gonna get from this new activity

[small yew]

its not that 15% is massive its just that most active raiders feel that raid rewards arent high enough to justify this change

its like taking 10% fire or whatever off ignis

[jovial hamlet]

you also have to consider if you "fail" the raid

[wild ibex]

just get good!!

[jovial hamlet]

okay buddy xD

[ocean hazel]

Man, who tf fail a raid

[wild ibex]

^^^^

[jovial hamlet]

newer players, not every1 is good at raiding

[vague cave]

pfinder

[ocean hazel]

If we talking about new players, then it's more 16le/h raiding, and new players are gonna def do this new minigame for money

[jovial hamlet]

exactly no incentive to raid anymore even if they do win, margins arent gonna be as big