#Nightcloak Knife qol

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

next juniper
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Ignoring the entire buff spellshade meme, the knives are very unfun to use.

They should stay after switching the weapon to allow you to drink potions without losing half of your dps, considering spellshade is a very high risk archetype (with mid reward) needing to hug enemies to do damage at all.

They should last a bit longer so you can keep them through unavoidable downtime like between rooms in raids or watched phase on TNA
OR
make the knives timer stop while vanished.

This archetype already struggles with close range and having to land backstabs; needing to refresh knives every 2 seconds adds unnecesary pressure.

sterile bramble
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Yes og shade knives make up so much dmg losing them unironically doubles the time of a fight

shell lintel
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Might I add it's just not very fun for me to have to "juggle" knives on the assassin of the assassins, the fun part, the burst gets locked behind them, not cool

gleaming wren
# next juniper Ignoring the entire buff spellshade meme, the knives are very unfun to use. Th...

I totally agree with this, I picked up shade a week ago and it has some serious core gameplay issues most of which can be tied to the level of respect you must have for every boss to play it efficiently.

comparing shade to pure fallen, one of the only comparable burst damage classes, shade has to stack up marks, consume them for knives, stack marks again, and then start doing damage (if theres no minions you will have to consume twice btw) you will spend around a full 30 seconds or more just doing prep work on your first li boss only to deal damage comparable to what fallen does right out the gate. Throughout the run youre then forced to sacrifice damage opportunities to instead consume marks to keep up your knives up whereas again fallen just steamrolls through with no setup.

This is not to say fallen is op or anything like that, shade as a class is just too slow and too setup reliant for what its competing with, and demands way too much setup time and respect for the level of damage it puts out.

I think that a good start would be allowing shade to always stack full knives off a single target, allowing the knives to persist after swapping, and then switching them over from a time system to a durability system closer to how ophanims work (minus the natural decay) this would allow them to be preserved in raids and give shade a much needed QoL spike, as now you really only need to stack marks which is way less taxing on time. This system would also allow more skill expression, as players can gage exactly when in a combo they will need to refresh knives instead of doing so just when the timer is low

shell lintel
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I think the ct have their own ideas now that the problem is identified and our job is done, cool essay tho

next juniper
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The durability suggestion is great, gives needed qol without changing their relative power.

Burst fallen needs to heal so you don't get 100% dmg uptime with that either, but the difference is that with shade it feels really bad when you "miss" a damage opportunity in order to build up your knives again, especially since on a single target your consuming multiple vanish CDs to get max knives. On fallen, it feels satisfying to me to use up my full health without missing a shot, and I want to heal back up anyways so I don't die.
I'm not entirely sure what the fix is but one suggestion could be to make them build up based on how much damage you deal? So something like, everytime you deal X multiplier of your max health, +1 knife

short oak
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please please please please please do this

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keeping them on weapon swap would be so good

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also how about this: if the bar expires only 1 knife dissappears, the more knives you've lost the faster the bar goes down so it encourages you to get them back asap but doesnt nuke your damage completely if you even miss the bar once

main grotto
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ok call me crazy but i lowkey like swapping to pot killing my knives because its risk vs reward

like during tna watched you can chug a potion to heal or you can retain knives with 1 spin without spending the time to set up them and marks again (which can take longer than expected if greg jumps all over the place. If you play too risky you have to back off, heal and get knives again. I love playing risky but i kind of like how i get punished for greeding too hard without having to get one shot
anyway if this gets added idrc but i dont think its that bad

as for the other things i dont agree 40 seconds is already a lot and managing it and marks is a part of the class, you’re basically asking for a 40-64% dps increase for doing nothing when u already get it super easily when it matters (when it matters because if enemies die too fast to get them you dont need them anyway)
the only time 40 seconds isnt enough is orphion’s black hole, which is also 40 seconds xd

short oak
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which every other arche can do with no downsides (besides like shaman having to throw totems but thats so minor noone cares)

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also speaking from my hmelee perspective you get punished already since you lose powder special charge

main grotto
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yeah it is much more punishing compared to everything else so it getting added is chill ~~but pots should be nerfed on everything else anywaysaltroll ~~

main grotto
short oak
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sorta

naive barn
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i liked when you could self sustain health with quake and alot of enemies

short oak
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honestly that wouldnt be too bad rn i feel like, maybe put a cap of 3-5 on it

main grotto
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just dont make it as good as chain

short oak
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wait chain still triggers lf multiple times?

main grotto
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it triggering steals multiple times is like the only thing that makes it worth anything

steep basalt
next juniper
steep basalt
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i honestly dont think shade sucks, i do agree tho maintaining knives can be a pain

next juniper
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So long setup time for mid damage

steep basalt
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i will agree other options are just better tho ye

next juniper
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And lose half of your shit when potting

main grotto
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the setup time is like 4 seconds

short oak
steep basalt
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yeah but thats more saying something that theyre busted and need to be nerfed, not that shade needs to be buffed

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acro and trickster need to be buffed not shade

next juniper
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Bomb, vanish, spin, bomb, wait for vanish, spin
Now you can start doing damage
God forbid if you have t1 mark cap and you need to spin 3 times for all knives

short oak
main grotto
short oak
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just nerf spellshade saltroll

steep basalt
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thas what im sayin thats why spellshade the goat 💪

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nooo plss dont i swear 😭

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if they do that im quitting the game on golly

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all of assassin will be cooked

main grotto
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nerf hmelee it can one tap greg with insane rolls and an entire team of setup🤯

short oak
next juniper
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Suggestions how to fix shade could be long as shit but they will never do it

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So at least add the quality of life of not losing your dps when potting on high risk class saltroll

short oak
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^

steep basalt
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if we riot they might just do it

short oak
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@slim kraken hey sorry for the ping but you work on this sort of stuff i think, how do you feel about keeping knightcloak knife when swapping off weapons?

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WAIT what if we increased the drain speed when swapping off weapon

steep basalt
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yuck

undone vapor
sweet gull
sweet gull
slim kraken
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ngl my personal opinion is that all abilities should just stay if you swap to anything but another waepon

next juniper
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🙏

zenith orbit
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i’d rather have knife aspect give duration on top of it too

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up to 20s maybe

steep basalt
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it would help with phase transitions making u lose it

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but honestly im more wanting the setup to be shortened, needing less rotations to get max knives

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that way it matters less if you loose it as you can pick it back up without taking ages

main grotto
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u need 2 rotations tho

steep basalt
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ye precisely

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imagine if that was 1

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like 2 aint the end of the world, idm it that much but boy would life be so much more enjoyable if it only took 1

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ig it would kinda ruin the point of having to juggle them tho as it wont matter if u lose them at all

main grotto
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yeah thats why i think 2 is fine

steep basalt
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yeah that didnt take much persuading but thinking about it u prolly right, idk how else you would do it

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i guess as this post says, making it easier to maintain could be part of it, or even a way to reduce vanish cooldown with spin so you dont have to wait for it two rotations

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although theres nothing stopping u from spin backstab smokebomb then the timer would prolly be back up

main grotto
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the real enemy is actually just smoke bomb being slow because you can double backstab to refresh vanish but u have to do extra spins to apply marks to get max knives if u do it that quickly

zenith orbit
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black hole should increase how often smoke hits but also reduce duration

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i’d honestly use that as an ability

main grotto
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that would be fire

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i already overthrow smokes tbh anyway

steep basalt
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honestly thats not a bad idea

flint tundra
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Time to piss people off and make these effects the t1 aspect

next juniper
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They're not going to do this are they...

steep basalt
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as if

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constructive feedback is a place for us to complain and inhale that copium to hide the fact that they wont change a thing

slim kraken
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Apart from the hundreds of examples of feedback fundamentally shaping the game to be how it is today like

next juniper
slim kraken
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I said my opinion a little bit up about abilities in general when swapping weapons

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That doesn't mean it's the direction that will necessarily be taken

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But I think there's potentially a lot of abilities that the community would appreciate not being removed when weapon swapping

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And if we start doing it 1 by one it will just be annoying and less effective than if we make a concrete decision for things and do it all at once

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We've obviously got a lot of agree stuff on our plates and in the plans, knives has already seen some big qol and buffs due to this work and it will continue for assassin and all other classes

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But everything takes time

steep basalt
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nevertheless it didnt have much of a punchline or anything

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although it is true i had doubts its not to say i didnt have hopes

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im glad to see some direct acknowledgement from you guys to the community though, that raises my hopes of improvement by a lot more

next juniper
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that doesn't answer the not making building knives take half a minute on single targets tho 💀
with a good guild party half of TCC's health is gone by the time i have all knives and marks built up