Don't give profession objectives when you don't do profs

[thorn veldt]

yeah i have work in the morning its 1am

[drifting hollow]

😼

[thorn veldt]

atp its 2am

[ruby sail]

2 am now

[limpid egret]

Shadow I've found this cool gif

[limpid egret]

NA problems...

[drifting hollow]

Oh? You should show me it 😼

[limpid egret]

_ _

[thorn veldt]

yeah

[drifting hollow]

🔥

[thorn veldt]

only 18 more minutes until i can sleep...

[ruby sail]

there should be a downside to not completing your weekly objective. like detlas gets destroyed for not sucessfully dealing with-

[drifting hollow]

Just post it tomorrow, surely the thread won't be locked by then

[limpid egret]

Surely not

[drifting hollow]

Surely

[ruby sail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQJW8NOamiI

its so inefficient

[thorn veldt]

yeah your location sucked ass i think

[ruby sail]

i just followed the trees lol

i really should hook my new mouse up lol

[drifting hollow]

god that pathing..

fuck

😭

[ruby sail]

look theres a reason im lvl 105 mining and like 77 woodcutting fishing and farming

and like none of the crafting ones

[thorn veldt]

yeah im killing myself

it can be watched in non-hd tho

[ruby sail]

damn it took mine like 20 minutes and its twice as long almost

[thorn veldt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7_ssbon7OM

acc idk what its on its in 1440p

[drifting hollow]

nvm i cba to record i dont have any classes that dont have woodcutting started </3

[ruby sail]

fresh from kings recruit then

[ornate sleet]

me when I’m at the bad take competition and my opponent is foxxochan

[drifting hollow]

ok was on an 11 min time by the looks of it too but died to mobs so i cba to continue it

was at ~190 at the 9m mark

paused the timer to run back since people doing this would be able to survive normally

ended at 11:28

[ancient echo]

https://tenor.com/view/foxxochan-wynncraft-gif-7822671465078224897

Can we get this once again shadow

Also pretty sure that prof guild obj takes at most 20 mins if u do it at the current prof lvl, 10 min if u do lv 1

[unborn wraith]

0:58 lost 2 seconds, prepare to get beaten 😈

[drifting hollow]

i lost a lot of time cause i was on a level 4 class 😭

and didnt have my pathing down until partway through it

i feel like if i had walk speed and a decent cycle i couldve brought it to like 10m

[robust compass]

This was so entrateining to Read

Thanks @clever sluice for either trolling or being so braindead that even a baby could win an argument against you

[blazing lion]

babies auto win any arguments by screaming

[clever sluice]

ragebait used to be believable

[nocturne tulip]

I hate to say it since i'm meant to be the example victim of the bad profession system and i thought i was until i started it with you, but it was honestly fine. I know you threw down a resource gathering bomb thing for me but i grinded at least that much again after you had to leave. For an objective you get a full week for this was fully on par with the previous one that had me open 40 loot chests in the world. I'm sure the proffession system has it's flaws but this honestly seems fine

[earnest herald]

I will say lootrun objectives shouldn't be a thing if your class hasn't unlocked lootruns yet

[drifting hollow]

they dont appear if you dont have a class above min level to do cotl iirc

[earnest herald]

85 is min level? Huh would of thought 88-90 would be minimum

[drifting hollow]

no idea what min level is

but they dont appear if you cant do them

[earnest herald]

Oh i still can't. I just started Cotl and its given me that. Not even done any caves yet

[drifting hollow]

if you can access them by doing caves and quests itll still give you the objective

it just wont do it if your level is too low for it

[earnest herald]

Yeah thats fair. It's probably also just impossible to detect if you have lootruns unlocked for the daily so just stuck with level

[iron mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-used-to-be-believable-baited-jebaited-bait-i-got-jebaited-gif-1296286127798996733

[rotund pecan]

Introducing Nivla Woods.

My name is decrepit sewers

[heady turret]

If this post was about fishing, it'd make more sense, but wood gathering is just extremely easy for a level 1, farming is too and arguably mining. Fishing is the only one where there aren't as many level 1 nodes (from my experience with gathering).

[hoary tangle]

yeah

[heady turret]

I mean, it's also a weekly, so does it really matter that you can't complete it today, right this very moment?

[hoary tangle]

i am praying foxxo has done profs by now

[rotund pecan]

Pigmen Ravines, no mobs where the nodes are and is rather peaceful, completes in less than an hour

Can be done from low level

[hoary plover]

Nah this is next level hating

LOL

[viscid zinc]

or next level baiting

[zinc mason]

honestly just make the number of materials you need to gather be the amount of mats you'd get from completely using up a T1 tool. that way it's balanced to some degree for newer players because yeah 200 mats is kind of a lot, but then again you're not expected to be doing guild objectives at such a low level, are you. completely removing the objective is just dumb when all other types of endgame activity are covered

[marsh yarrow]

Bro has gotten 0 extra s and is still yapping, it might be terminal

[dawn raft]

i mean his so did just say that the prof objective was fine to them, foxxo just had a strong reaction

[marsh yarrow]

So what

[dawn raft]

so its time to wrap it up

[nocturne tulip]

it might be over

[heady turret]

I love that this is the only thread out of probably the last 50 (excluding a thread made by the CT for blizzard brawl) that has reached 1k+ messages. Foxxo is amazing at bringing the community together

[robust compass]

Yes
Nomatter what happens, how hard times are gonna be
We are all gonna be unite against foxxo's "feedbacks"

[junior folio]

sentence foxxo to 250 fishing obj

[hollow geyser]

Let’s go this thread turned into a 1000 message yap fest

[nocturne tulip]

he had to go through one recently and did it in like a minute. I think the content team should make him an event where he actually gets a few of them one week after another to give him a proper challenge

[clever sluice]

Mm I woke up and there's 20 more

[nocturne tulip]

Foxxo you better give me a BF discount for the fish you catch from the fishing weeklies, you know how many housing island blocks i need

[fair palm]

Ok so, what are the main arguments for and against?

For: It's annoying

Against: ???

I'm sure as shit not scrolling on mobile all the way to the top and reading 1k messages one by one

[clever sluice]

Hahdhhdhhhhh, I will... Fishing is annoying the most important resource for housing (sometimes)

[clever sluice]

I've only been told "profs have a spot in daily and weekly objectives"

[fair palm]

Proffing as it is right now isn't fun, so I don't know why it makes sense for Guild objectives or Daily objectives to encourage them tbh

[nocturne tulip]

idk, i have only gotten the wood one but for me it really didn't seem too hard for the point where you encounter them. As mentioned i did have a harvest bomb thing boosting me but i kept farming wood after it ran out for longer than it'd need to complete the objective again and it thus seems very much managable

[clever sluice]

Yeah, their only argument is that 'it doesn't take that long" when it's time I'd rather spend not proffing

Regardless of how long it took

[clever sluice]

Can I be honest

I didn't think the bomb itself would be so efficient like damn, you chopped 180 trees in a literal instant

I thought you would get like 30 or so trees

[nocturne tulip]

that is true, but that got me to what, level 19, i got to level 35 right after in... well i'd have to check but it didn't feel like it took too long

[clever sluice]

Not because of your skill but because I just thought it would take that long

[nocturne tulip]

isn't the point of dailies that they're optional? For crate events you might need to grind but otherwise is it really a disaster to miss out on the more boring ones?

i assume these get more difficult over time with level, right? I mean i've only now properly started getting weeklies since joining a guild so i have no earlier point of reference

[fair palm]

I'ma be real, you got a lot of L takes sometimes (it's a meme at this point) but you're spot on for this one. Every other objective at least ties into an relevant aspect of the game that is fun or meaningful in some way (interacting with noobs is at least well intentioned)

But proffing is literally its own beast, not tied to the main game as a core part of the gameplay. It's the ugly duckling of objectives

[clever sluice]

Nope, they only get harder for combat level, not profs, I originally asked in this post for the same system there is in combat level to be applied in professions

Well

[nocturne tulip]

so... is it not an issue with professions as a whole instead of the weeklies?

[clever sluice]

I didn't ask explicitly but the idea is stronger

[fair palm]

By extension, that means the weekly/daily objectives are not fun and shouldn't be there

[nocturne tulip]

okay okay, this is very important context for me, thx

[clever sluice]

Make a thread of ur own in regards to this

(about prof weeklies)

[nocturne tulip]

this would be a fine bandaid solution since it would be an easy implementation but the root of the problem is still in the professions system, is it not?

[clever sluice]

The biggest issue is fishing tbh, but I don't really like complaining about that, ehhh it's complicated

[nocturne tulip]

since i've only done mining, harvesting and woodcutting i can't know, but is fishing like extra bad in comparison?

[clever sluice]

But yes ur right, well, to tthief and me profs aren't fun and people similar ofc, but other players do find it fun

[clever sluice]

You'd have to see, to me personally it is worse than mining

[fair palm]

I will

[clever sluice]

Harvesting is the best prof I think

[clever sluice]

Good, people won't insta bias against you (proving I was right)

[fair palm]

Yes. And much like how we can temporarily disable gambits until bugs are fixed, we can disable prof objectives until they are remedied

[nocturne tulip]

i'm on the same page with it in that case

one thing that had me worried is that if you just prevent profession objectives from appearing for players who haven't gotten into professions, it will quickly become rewarding to not interact with the professions system at all, which will in turn split it even further off from other game mechanics. Doesn't change the fact professions probably need a rework. I'm not knowledgeble enough to know how yet but i'm sure yall have some good ideas to throw to the content team when the time comes

[fair palm]

As it is, it's not rewarding until end game. It's only relevant for like, one quest with Prof reqs. Even if you encourage people to do profs, then what? I'm sure you know how unbelievably long it takes for someone to do it without XP armor and without Champ role for bomb bell, and that doesnt sound fun at all

There's just so incredibly little reward, someone from CT acknowledged a long time ago that as it stands, it's just a niche side activity for people who have nothing else to do or for those who truly want to min-max the hell out of their character

[clever sluice]

Please please please make a thread about prof weeklies too

Please

[thorn veldt]

again, 11 minutes 21 seconds

[viscid zinc]

me when dungeons and lootruns, then chests....

[nocturne tulip]

the "as it stands" is the issue. Profs can't really be implemented out of the game without large community backlash, but the other options are either going to make them more nieche, inaccessible and unfun, or they're gonna make them both fun and rewarding enough to do be worthwhile.

IMO from scratching the surface with the three professions mentioned above it feels very much like it'd be a waste to completely give up on the system ever being a fun part of gameplay.

My main point is that these options that make profs less intrusive on gameplay are good for the current state of the game but they do not fix the core issue. Ofc right now forcing players to do the unfun thing is, well, unfun, but from what Foxxo has told me on other occasions it sounds like the whole system is royally screwed outside of this niche you mentioned and i'm afraid like this is all building up to it getting shoved further in the corner

[viscid zinc]

Against? Its still parts of the game, even though it serves small ones and usually for higher lvl players. And as many ppl said and its still true, it doesnt take long if u know the spot and how to cheese it

[heady turret]

Let's not be ridiculous, most people agree there is more fun to be found doing those over profs. Now, profs are definitely easier.

[viscid zinc]

all weekly objectives are not fun if its not killing mobs or like raid. Should they also be removed too?

[zinc mason]

the players have spoken, the CT must delay fruma to rework all professions

[hollow geyser]

This won’t age poorly at all…

Foxxo is always right

[errant jay]

It’s crazy how much of a bootlicker he becomes to just one person who agrees with him

[young tiger]

disabale prof objs because... its boring to do??

guys if we DONT get triple easy gambits we should disable becaues its boring to NOT get max rewards

[fringe moat]

I love reading Foxxo threads, theres always something to laugh about

[clever sluice]

Meeting the two eyed man in these lands tends to do that

[marsh yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/yapping-yapping-level-today-catastrophic-yapanese-gif-13513208407930173397

[icy orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-explode-cat-explode-mike-interpol-gif-13503338605162614186

[open oak]

Good

So stop crying and just play the game or quit

[nocturne tulip]

champion on champion violence 😭

[clever sluice]

That's one of the peoples I have blocked, I recommend you ignore them like I'm doing

[nocturne tulip]

seems legit

[shell burrow]

i don't think you should block that guy because he seems pretty cool

[clever sluice]

last time he said horrible stuff to me, i'd rather not read what else he has to say

[scenic pulsar]

first foxxo thread I agree with, however I can't like cuz I'm blocked

[gaunt spire]

foxxo unblock him so your thread have 1 more like

[sage wren]

for the sake of fairness since foxxo took some heat for this when i first started in wynncraft i thought i had to spamclick nodes for the longest while

i might just be dumb though

[sage wren]

the against arguement imo is that you can make this arguement about literally any weekly objective.

opening t3 chests means you have to go caving which some people might find annoying

dungeons is a pretty commonly brought up one that's annoying

i think some weekly objective scaling to prof level stuff has recieved generally positive feedback in the thread asw from what i've read but "removing every unfun weekly objective" is a very slippery slope thats always going to leave one player or another grumpy about it. (especially for what the community seems to percieve as a large non issue given its roughly 45 minutes in an absolute worst case scenario over the course of a week)

[fair palm]

• Opening chests reinforces the idea that caving is good for you (which it is) either because you get good items or you get items to sell to trade market
• Dungeons are annoying

My argument is not "it's boring let's take it away" it's "this does not fit thematically with the rest of the other objectives". You can't argue for taste when everyone is differnt

[zinc mason]

honestly just rework the daily/weekly objective system so it's like the gambit system, that way you can choose which monotonous activity you want to do for an hour to get your crates instead of having one picked at random for you

[sage wren]

i think "this does not fit thematically" doesn't actually fit with what i've seen of your previous posts as arguements (and they do fall more in line with anti-fun takes).

but its possible i missed that part of your arguement.

what about it is themeatically different? in all guild objectives (and daily except maybe the give newbies money which is there for a different purpose entirely and i'll disregard as its not super relevant) you're engaging with a game mechanic for an extended period of time for a reward

i don't see how proffing is inherently different themeatically but break it down for me

[sage wren]

atp this thread is long gone past this

would have to be a new thread if this is what the people desire

this thread is all sorts of out of wack

valid tho

[fair palm]

Every objective encourages you to interact with a mechanic that is beneficial to you, or makes you interact with the community. Prof objectives do neither of these things.

The "gameplay loop" is explore -> loot -> kill mobs -> get stronger -> rinse and repeat. it's the gameplay loop for any RPG game at their core. Profs don't fit into any part of this at all outside of crafting better gear which is only useful if you're already a proffer who has sunk dozens or more hours into professions and min-maxed gear

Some peopel enjoy proffing to relax on it's own, and that's fine, but it feels weird when every other objective encourages you to interact with the main themes of the game (dungeons, kills, or interact with people) but this one.. doesn't

[drifting hollow]

Encourages you to interact with game content

It's as simple as that

It doesn't need to "teach" players about doing specific content because that's already something you learn by playing the game like a normal person 🤯

[fair palm]

by that metric we should have daily objective that makes you sell to blacksmith, or jump 10 blocks consecutively, or any other mundane and obtuse reason

[drifting hollow]

Sure I'll go suggest those 😁

Since you want them so badly, just for you

[clever sluice]

real

[fair palm]

lol you're intentionally being dumb but the point is the current objectives at least ENCOURAGE you to interact with content that's good for you

[sage wren]

To push back on this a little bit, i would argue you can interact with community during proffing.

Things like proffers popping scrolls/bomb/offering each other prof food for speed are things i've seen even at lower levels during double xp weekend grinding up fishing.

Additionally proffers do get benefits from proffing even without any crafting or minmaxed gear as its a viable income source even with only one prof grinded up.

[drifting hollow]

Calling profs a gameplay loop with zero benefit is just misinformation on your part btw

[sage wren]

But i do get the inherent point of it not being nearly AS interactive or helpful at lower levels, so i cede that though

[fair palm]

you can but it doesn't naturally encourage you to do so. The bombs are only viable if you're champ rank. Which if you're making the argument that it's fine because it uniquely applies to champs who have bombell.. that's not great

[sage wren]

I disagree that its entirely noninteractive and unhelpful tho

[sage wren]

bombs specifically apply to champs sure, borrowing gathering gear and food and shiz from your guild, and getting other nearby proffers doing weekly's to pop scrolls is actively encouraged though

because it makes grinding faster for you, and if you're neglecting that aspect ur actively making it harder for yourself

[zinc mason]

yeah, what do you expect from a yap thread

[sage wren]

or not harder, but making the weekly take longer

[sage wren]

idk im mostly having fun debating, idk why im enjoying rambling and yapping.

[zinc mason]

I am however gonna work on a suggestion I have for the objective/mini quest systems cuz they're so outdated

[sage wren]

W productive user

[sage wren]

anyways tldr the bomb interaction being champ specific is bad enough that i'll retract it but it doesnt negate the other interactions

[fair palm]

Yes but that's not encourages by the objective since you're going for quantity, not XP.

It feels like the ugly duckling of objectives. I touched on this in this in my own thread, but if you could make profs take you to specific locations instead, i'd rescind my opinion

[sage wren]

nah ur take here is valid and i appreciate you explaining it

[fair palm]

Cause if it forced you to different regions, it encourages exploration. I dont have fun with it, sure, but my main argument is thematically it doesn't fit in

[sage wren]

consider possibly as you level profs it tells you which specific thing to gather (ie gather ice fish at level 40+) but the overall amount is scaled back a touch

what is ur take on this

the only way to force profs to tell you to explore under the current metric is by moving locations as you level them but that doesnt REALLY work beyond short term i think

because if ur only proffing for weeklies you'll be like, in that level 30-50 range for probably ever

so mayhaps not

but your thematic arguement is a fine opinion to have imo

i will see myself out of the thread until next time im bored, ty for engaging

[fair palm]

It works at low levels for encouraging you to explore specific places (which is nice) when you have a lvl req attached to it. I never would have explored the random geode with 11 Cobalt nodes in Dark Forest if I hadn't had that objective tbh.

But when I get "chop down 300 trees" can you guess which forest I'm going to?

[open oak]

mfw i learn proffing isnt good for u

when u make 1stx+ per hr from fishing dernic :OOOOOOOOOOO

[open oak]

proffing is part of "get stronger" btw

[fair palm]

It really isn't

[open oak]

Damn thats mind blowing when adding crafteds make almost every single build better

[fair palm]

from lvl 1-100 you don't use profs or crafteds unless you specifically enable the Crafteds only challenge thing.

And wow it's almost as if... most people... buy them??? 🤯

[open oak]

If everyone bought materials and didnt farm any, who would sell them

Its a core part of the game

Just accept that you dont like a core aspect of getting the best items

[fair palm]

The few people who do it for financial gain and are okay with investing 20+ hours into leveling up their professions. Most players I have met/talked to do not have lvl 100 in gatherings + crafted professions because "I want to have 10% more dps to my build with crafted ring!"

[open oak]

The 10% more dps from crafted ring is still part of the gameplay loop of "get stronger"

[fair palm]

You buy it from other players and it's a literal 8+ hour investment with champion rank for bombells and buying profession gathering armor to get at least 2 gathering profs up and then the crafting one too. Stop being so stubborn my guy. CT even admitted a long time ago that profs are a niche part of the game, not the main core. If the literal devs don't think it is, why do you?

[open oak]

The devs that... dont play the game? xd

[fair palm]

You're an actual dummy if you don't think the devs play the game. I'm not going to argue with you on that point

[open oak]

Ok keep whining about being bored doing on optional quest for cosmetics

[fair palm]

Crafting doesn't give you a linear progression towards getting stronger. It goes from:
"Wow this is useless" -> "Wow this is broken as hell"
because players min-max the hell out of it at the end game. Please name an RPG where from lvl 1-99 you character doesn't functionally get stronger and then they get all their abilities and powers at lvl 100 all at once. That's essentially what profs are.

I like them as a concept, and I don't even mind gathering prof weeklies all that much honestly, I just don't think they fit in with the core gameplay loop wynncraft tries to convey

[fair palm]

You can keep being an ass all you want I'm still going to reply respectfully

Two biggest defenses I've seen are:

• They're not that bad
• Some people like it

That still doesn't address the idea that conceptually they still stick out like a sore thumb imo

[zinc mason]

long story short: rework profs to fit better in the new direction Wynn is going down

which I'm fairly sure they're working on, a lot of old and clunky parts of the game got remade already

[hardy dock]

People have repeatedly brought up to you that proffing if done the nonfastest way is factually beneficial to you.

And it was also brought to you that every objective if done fast is not really beneficial to you.

Prof objectives are just objectively not categorically different.

[shell burrow]

complete 4 lootruns takes on average 15-20 minutes to complete and requires high combat level
200 wood requires no combat level and can be completed on a new class in around 15 minutes

8 dungeons either takes an hour of running dungeons (profitable) or 8 runs of DS (not profitible, still takes like 20 minutes)

complete raids has a solid skill and combat level requirement, and depending on your ping/team skill, can take anywhere from 10 minutes to 2 hours

slay mobs is a slog if you don't know where to go, compared to fiendishly obvious nivla woods 200 wood objective

open chests is such a fucking time waster it isn't even funny (i would take 200 fish over 80 chests any day of the week)

and as for prof objectives...
mining stops being offensive once you get access to granite and start raiding pigman ravines
fishing and farming are maybe the most offensive ones, taking a solid time investment, but are still easily completeable with no prerequisets by visitng durum/rooster isle and coastal trail
woodcutting 250 is hypothetically complete able in 5 minutes

[outer dock]

10 dungeons max !

[drifting hollow]

Isn't it 12 max

[shell burrow]

i guess i'm lucky

[outer dock]

no unless it was changed recently

[drifting hollow]

Ah idk then

[shell burrow]

corrupted dungeons are dogshit and decrepit sewer keys are expensive when i don't have 50 of them from world events

corrupted dungeons would be cool if that got a hollowzero style rework tho imo imo fr fr

[outer dock]

Dungeons

[shell burrow]

dungeons don't have enough randomness to be fun to grind atm

[drifting hollow]

Mfw open 40 t3s guild obj

Hate that one

[outer dock]

Sundial made it nicer

[shell burrow]

rush SE caves 🙏

actually just lootrun and only take spelunks

[drifting hollow]

Ahh last i had it, sundial didn't exist yet

[shell burrow]

whats a sundial

[drifting hollow]

But anyways it's still a slog

[drifting hollow]

Cave in desert with like 10 t3s or something

[shell burrow]

ooooh shit, gotta drop by that some time

[drifting hollow]

Fishing becomes less offensive when you can 1 shot icefish but that takes a solid time investment to get to that point in the first place

There are spots around ice islands with 40+ node dive spots with icefish

[shell burrow]

yeah nah im only level fishing 35 rn
but tbh coastal trail isn't offensive either

[drifting hollow]

Generally just go next to the bridge between nivla and detlas Suburbs and it's generally good enough

Maybe 20-30m still but yea

Tho I havnt checked out the coastal trail nodes recently

[shell burrow]

tbf it's only really good if you have hella mobility stuff
i was rushing between salmon nodes by nemract and gudgeon cave nodes and that was only efficient because i run uppersurf

[drifting hollow]

I see

Fishing is the most egregious on a low level class then I'd say

Since most places require semi-decent movement to cycle well

[shell burrow]

yeah, farmings only sloggish because the nodes can be hard to hit sometimes

[drifting hollow]

Ehhh

Not that bad

Durum Isles makes it super simple

[zinc mason]

for fishing I just go to the trout spot at upper pigman ravine