TCC guild raid should have some adjustments/nerfs currently

[viscid tangle]

and you're being disingenuous if you want to say that nothing changed since the previous thread with room 3. This is all beside the point

[stoic orbit]

i am talking about 3rd room only

[viscid tangle]

3rd room has 3 other objectives in it!

[modern notch]

my bad, i read wrong, i take back the previous messages

[viscid tangle]

4 if you count astal, parkour is 1 singular component of it

only 1 player is required to do it in the party

[stoic orbit]

its 2 bosses 1 parkour 1 wallhugger and defend so 5 objectives

[flat tartan]

parkour is uninteresting at the level it is found in graids and very boring like objectively- no one who enjoys parkour enjoys wynncraft parkour. YES SURE PARJOUR CAN BE GOOD but it should take advantage of wynncraft mechanics to make it more interesting

[modern notch]

can you guys just make tcc r3 works like tna void room lmao, that room is peak

[tribal merlin]

what do you mean you dont like having to do the same jump 20 times in a row??

[viscid tangle]

wynncraft is a huge and diverse game with puzzles, boss fights and... wait for it.... PARKOUR! so god forbid that a single raid room has a single forced parkour as a single component out of 5 total

[modern notch]

like idk add something else to lengthen the room not fuckin forced parkour

[stoic orbit]

forced parkour + 2 waiting simulator challenges

it adds up thats the issue

[tribal merlin]

look man i would be fine with parkour in 3rd room (and elsewhere) if it actually added something engaging to the room besides the current monotonous implementation

[viscid tangle]

and you will know that many on ct have agreed that it could be more interesting, but is it a top priority compared to many other room changes across all raids that we can all agree are necessary? No of course not

[modern notch]

hence this is exactly why i said at the start and this is a patchwork fix LMFAO

[viscid tangle]

it isn't patchwork

it is a perfectly functional room with little issue other than you can't spam it as hard as you used to

[modern notch]

you do not have time to improve the room, so you slap this shit on to make the raid more 'healthy' according to your dev vision instead of making it an actually fun and engaging room to play

you quite literally just proved the point i've said at the start

i do not care if i can't spam it as hard as i used to as long as it's FUN. forced parkour is NOT fun

[viscid tangle]

time was spent to improve the room already and vast improvements were made, based on many pieces of community feedback, I was not a part of the changes other than making a few suggestions along the way but the room is far more engaging now that multiple mechanics cannot be entirely ignored and can actually pose a challenge

astal was being completely ignored,
boulders were completed in under 2 seconds
parkour was ignored because you could movement spell to it from axon

[modern notch]

gg

[viscid tangle]

if that is fun to you then I think i'd rather have you blocked

[modern notch]

lmao alright pce 🫡

[tribal merlin]

> implement boring activity that players circunvent anyways so it isn't problematic

proceed to make it not circunventable without making it not boring

[summer pike]

implement the grapple hook mechanic from the breaking point

[eternal cypress]

old 2.1 tcc in pf or even graid sometimes could still make players do what it meant.

if ur party didnt have the specific classes to be able to skip parts ofc

[modern notch]

this was suggested in an earlier thread and one of the ct thinks it's banger, i think so too. however there might be some lag issues ngl

but i'm willing to see them cook

[steep granite]

This would be cool

I think the problem with raids isnt the bosses its just that 86% of the rooms are piss boring

[uncut siren]

🥤 stocking up on some tears

[stoic orbit]

if the raid was improved why have tcc completions dropped by like 30% or more?

but ill actually post something for devs/ct about tcc in a bit to make this easier to understand

[woeful totem]

because the raid was super low effort before and everyone did it

[stoic orbit]

its also a problem that the devs only seem to rate a raid based on a logical level when actually raid funnes isnt based on logic but emotions

so saying the raid has improved based on that logic is straight up horrible

[viscid tangle]

to quote lumi from earlier (paraphrasing of course) "no shit the completions have dropped now that you can't do the whole thing in less than 5 minutes"

[stoic orbit]

no i have a very different issue with tcc. ill post a video here later and hopefully itll be shown to all devs/ct because I want you guys to do sth

[eternal cypress]

funny thing is ur still able to complete in sub4 or even 3 if ur team is godlike n know what to do

[inner sedge]

Cant wait for every optimal tcc party to need someone on 31 jh oly

🔥

[woeful totem]

tna can also do this, my record is 3:54 in graid

[eternal cypress]

niceee [insert who asked cringe joke :P]

anyway, the main point of the thread is resolved as @round verge will consider small changes in boss fight (ty abt that). I believe this can be closed for now... @viscid tangle if u want to (sr for the ping ofc)

other issues in tcc should be in other threads/feedback posts :p

[wild wharf]

god i wanna read this whole thread

[zealous garnet]

this was funny

[verbal plover]

its way too fast atm i can barely ever react to it

[fervent gyro]

Can you circle around Greg like before assuming it's just you?

[verbal plover]

the issue is that its hard to know who its targeting

solo the eye attack is fine, cus you always know its for you

[fervent gyro]

Aggro moment in TNA

Always the most annoying aspect of Greg

He'll just suddenly do a 180 and deck you out at lightspeed.

[zealous garnet]

eyes target players current position

so just move around when he’s doing it and you’ll survive

[modern notch]

^, just not be in the spot that everyone else previously were at the moment it casts the spell

[zealous garnet]

eyes are a balanced attack, it shouldn’t be changed

[fervent gyro]

Can you still circle around Greg when he does it, assuming you're solo?

[zealous garnet]

well he’s standing still so yes

[modern notch]

agreed, it is a bit annoying at first but you can learn and counterplay it

so it's fine

[fervent gyro]

And the eyes explode too, but I don't how big the radius is.

[zealous garnet]

it’s not that big from experience

[verbal plover]

so easy with 4 players 😁

[fervent gyro]

Well it is a graid

[verbal plover]

ive resorted to most of the time just running away from greg when he does eye attack

[fervent gyro]

Positioning and planning are precedent more than ever in this version.

[verbal plover]

its literally just gambling to try to dodge it

[fervent gyro]

Which sounds like a great thing to compensate for the abundance of hyperglass.

And who knows.

Bring the Paladin for some qol if that helps.

[verbal plover]

i think its a bit much damage for the speed and unpredictability

[modern notch]

the speed is fair yes, but it's absolutely predictable

[brazen forge]

Tcc mains doing a boss that fights back:

[verbal plover]

its predictable if you always know who it targets

[modern notch]

the moment it casts the spell, designate the zone of every player a danger zone and move away from them, that's it

[verbal plover]

great that the boss naturally makes everyone move close to him

zone of danger everywhere around him

[fervent gyro]

Are you trying to attack him when he's doing the attack?

[verbal plover]

most of the time no

[zealous garnet]

ok so why don’t you, move away from him? it’s a 5s attack counting the time eyes hit

[verbal plover]

i think the eye attack is fine btw, i just dont think it should be a oneshot punish for even 20k ehp

[steep granite]

Just move away

[woeful totem]

what a weird idea, idk what that means

[steep granite]

Nah but fuck them worms tho 🙏🙏

[verbal plover]

society if worms had consistent aoe hit range

[fervent gyro]

society if people went in a fucking circle and didn't spawn worms and void holes everywhere:

[steep granite]

Nah worms in normal tna is fine

[fervent gyro]

(This is base TNA)

[steep granite]

Its if one of your teammates misses the obelisk in graid

[verbal plover]

ehh that should be punishing tho

[fervent gyro]

It's more like "Man, why can't you guys just go in a circle, the worms retreat back to the ground".

[steep granite]

Nah it should be but like i literally cannot go for that obelisk if that happens cause it oneshots epoch

Which is fair but like i literally cant predict when its gonna shoot the balls

[fervent gyro]

I love void winds.

[verbal plover]

you gotta wait it out

thats the punish basically

[zealous garnet]

the only flaw i have with tna rn is the fact that void winds kidnap you inside of it instead of pushing you back inside

[steep granite]

Well the problem is timing the watched beam and the worm at the same time

I mean i dont really mind it just dont miss the obelisk lol

[zealous garnet]

forgot to mention worms but i mentioned it a couple of times already

[steep granite]

Everyday im thankful that obelisks are not in base

I would rage if i had to do that in pfinder

[woeful totem]

if worms were consitent but had harder to dodge patterns i'd be happier with them

but theyre just RNG factors for no reason

[steep granite]

Yeah

[fervent gyro]

In graid?

[woeful totem]

?

[fervent gyro]

Are you talking about the watched worms specifically in the graid or just TNA overall?

[woeful totem]

void hole worms dont change through graid or normal tna

they arent very relevant in graid tna because of how watched works there so ig that's more of a pfinder statement

[fervent gyro]

Explain the rngness behind them since you can just stay away from them?

[graceful falcon]

what if all pillar hp was reduced to 1 hit(and mabye make it so there's only 2 pillars so void holes r forced to spawn/two people have to group together) but after the first pillars die 4 more with 2 hp randomllly spawn and the watched laser gets faster or smth 🥺

[woeful totem]

the projectiles they shoot are entirely random in terms of direction

i recognzie that you can just stay away, but the RNG factor of the projectiles is what i dont like very much

[zealous garnet]

the visible projectiles don’t determine where the actual attack hits

[fervent gyro]

Watched progressively getting harder ✅

[stable turtle]

If I use statue, the boss should too.

[boreal spruce]

Graid tcc is fine

Yes the first few times you’ll probably die but at that point u gotta figure out a way to live bro 😭

[woeful totem]

^ thats how it should be

[robust spire]

@round verge TNA watched with only one telegraph ray

In guild raid

[steep granite]

Or just make it faster

Progressively

[dull lotus]

I like all raid

[round verge]

people said this before and my answer is still no

[steep granite]

So real

[round verge]

it makes the timing far harder to learn

when each shot has a different timing

[terse hatch]

1100 messages in

[steep granite]

I guess

[round verge]

I mean... maybe?

[fervent gyro]

I believe he means every time watched happens.

It gets upgraded 3 times in total

[round verge]

still makes the timing harder to learn imo

it would be annoying

1 warning lazer in graid uhhh

maybe?

[still orchid]

what is the point

[round verge]

I'll consider it as watched in Graid if ur a super skilled party is easier

[eternal cypress]

its really not consistent yep :D so needs few small twists

[steep granite]

Im ngl i dont think 1 telegrapg beam only would change much but maybe it just sounds easy on paper

[round verge]

it makes the watched a lot faster

instead of 1 watched every uhh 3 seconds its every 2

I'd have to check exact timing

but it makes the amount of watched lazers per second faster

[fervent gyro]

Higher risk higher reward with ending watched quicker

[round verge]

the WLP

lol

[steep granite]

Yeha but wouldnt it make it faster to kill the obelisks

[round verge]

uhh not really?

[steep granite]

I mean ig making it faster does that anyways

[round verge]

also it would mean u have to SPEED run to the obelisks when watched starts

or else the first lazer will miss

yee I was right it would bring it from 1 watched lazer every 3 seconds to every 2

idk I'll think about it more, I'm a bit busy IRL rn so I can't do too much testing rn

[steep granite]

I guess so

[eternal cypress]

80% r irrelevant anyway

[dull lotus]

dam u been typing a lot then brother

[steep granite]

Would you have enough time to move to the adjacent obelisk if it was just 1 warning beam or nah

[still orchid]

yes but theres no more room for coordination error if you want to end in 2watch

like there would be no chance for you to go back to the other side of the arena if you went to a side that already had 2 players without triggering at least 1 beam

[steep granite]

I mean is it really that hard to coordinate it

I mean shii maybe id have to see it in practice

[still orchid]

it's not, but it could be nasty if you do mess up
and that can happen w/ there being 3watch

i'd really hate having to switch back and forth between pfinder and graid watch patterns above all though, i hated the new system when beta dropped

im sure greg could be harder in the actual graid fight instead of watched

[steep granite]

Watched is objectively better now

[brazen forge]

That's just ruining the muscle memory of everyone who alternates between graid tna and normal (depending on parties)
Very wrong solution imo

[round verge]

Thats fair

Like I said I'd think about it

[stoic orbit]

so true. when i occasionally pfinder tna i always forget watched pillars aren‘t gonna spawn

[brazen forge]

Yeeeaa I go to the corners automatically as well lmao
At least it doesn't mess anything up it's just funny

[verbal plover]

non graid i generally try to aim watched beams at corners and the edges of the map

[still orchid]

I Wouldn't

[round verge]

yee I think the difference between Graid and normal raid timing might be an issue

I gotta do more thinking cuz I do kinda agree that Graid watched is easier in some way if you know what you are doing

thoe keep in mind Graid has 3 watched

and normal raid has 2

that was changed about a month ago iir

[inner sedge]

this is actually an insane thing to say for a system that incentivizes you to run it over and over

everyone who plays is your target audience

not just the people who do 1 raid a day

[steep granite]

Make the obelisks move 👍

[flat tartan]

i think what they are trying to say is that it is harder to get tired of parkour if you only do it once a day

but yeah it doesnt really make sense

it still gets boring - it is boring the first time

[inner sedge]

the issue is with raid rewards it's wanting you to do it multiple times a day

aspects need you to be running it more than once to level them up

[flat tartan]

EO parkour was frustrating but not annoying - idk what makes it different but maybe they can take some inspiration from that

[inner sedge]

does eo parkour remove your ability to use spells

[steep granite]

Just use the grappling hooks from breaking point

You literally do that quest to unlock the raid

[flat tartan]

hehe no probably the reason why it is fun

[inner sedge]

lol exactly

[flat tartan]

you can still use spells but it isn't a free pass if you use psells

[inner sedge]

i understand making things challenging but the fact that i've only seen complaints about the change says something i'd say

you dont wanna make things hard for the sake of it being hard if people arent gonna have fun with it

[steep granite]

The world if they brought back og resource room

[brazen forge]

I kind of get what this is referring to and where it's coming from but at the same time wording it like that especially in this context is really really shit
Eventho I think you're ultimately right (for the most part, at least)

[steep granite]

I mean its kinda debatable

Cause youd want to appeal to your more active players

[inner sedge]

obviously if you run it a lot eventually it will get boring to you but it is completely possible to balance it between casual and hardcore players

[steep granite]

A lot of the top tcc players just like faster shit it is what it is

[brazen forge]

Parkour was skippable and should have been fixed? Absolutely yes
Parkour in its current form is fun for at least any type of player? Not fucking really
And what order the changes should've come in is smth not for me to judge eventho if it were up to me I'd rework it first

[steep granite]

They should just replace parkour with colour change

Then everyone would be happy

[inner sedge]

spleef

[brazen forge]

Some people argue for the sake of parkour being more fun which is valid, others only care to speedrun the raid which, yeah, shouldn't be the main focus of game design

[steep granite]

I think a total of 4 people find the parkour fun

[zealous garnet]

what if it was cur parkour

[steep granite]

Theres nun weong with parkour but the parkour is like the most basic shit ever

[next wren]

Dude if i had to do cur parkour everytime i did a tcc i would do twice as many

[steep granite]

Yeah

[next wren]

Even cur parkour with a flame sign me up

[steep granite]

Or like the grappling hook literally from the quest you have to do before doing the raid but i digress

[brazen forge]

Wtf is cur parkour

[zealous garnet]

cur parkour is so fun

[steep granite]

Corrupted undergrowth ruins

[inner sedge]

real the grappling hook was cool

[fervent gyro]

Corrupted undergrowth ruins

[next wren]

Corrupted undergrowth ruins

[brazen forge]

Oh that

[next wren]

The second one specifically

[wild wharf]

Man, with lag that parkour is not fun

[fervent gyro]

Nah what about Corrupted Ice Barrows parkour : DDD

[next wren]

The first parkour is whatever but the second parkour is iconic

[fervent gyro]

Haha secret barrier

[brazen forge]

Ngl I kinda wish parkour was randomly generated or at least picked from like 10 possible layouts for each run, that alone would make it much less dull

[steep granite]

Exsctly

This is a problem with a lot of the rooms theres like no variation

[brazen forge]

Which shouldn't be hard to do given that u just swap it's elements around

[steep granite]

Golem room needs variation

[brazen forge]

Golem room needs god

[steep granite]

Replace golem room with colour change

[next wren]

I also thought at some point it was said that u were gonna get 1 jh and 25% walk speed when u grabbed the flam but i g that was never added

[fervent gyro]

Golem room: spawn camp 9000.

[steep granite]

I rest my case

[steep granite]

That shits not saving it

[fervent gyro]

And the lava monsters are easy to cheese

[steep granite]

I do love looking at small stone man hit rock for the 100tg time

Or run into a wall

[fervent gyro]

They should add a feature where you destroy the stone golem and instead, you cast spells to destroy the rocks!

You know, like in the tutorial of the very start of the game!

[steep granite]

They could also randomly have the lever in different places

[next wren]

The change for golem room is simple, give every canyon soarer a machine gun and bring back the bug where molten monsters couldn’t die

[zealous garnet]

what if boulders were enemy golems like wings

[fervent gyro]

I would suggest a randomly generated maze, but that shit is too ambitious for a second room.

[steep granite]

Second room is unironically the best room in tcc 💔

[fervent gyro]

They need to just add more room variants.

[next wren]

Tbh i wish wynn could do like procedurally generated maze so its actually random and not just one of 10 which realistically still just get memorized

[fervent gyro]

Grinding for my 4th vampiric tome for the 90th time.

[fervent gyro]

If that’s possible that’d be great, but it might piss off a lot of people.

[next wren]

But i imagine that procedural generation is way to expensive for an already pretty delicately balanced server computation wise

[simple falcon]

new maze tech, spam ice snake to make the generation lazier

[fervent gyro]

Could just have a random miniboss spawn.

I also believe there was some mention of another third room variant from the CT.

Not confirmed if they are working on it.

[still orchid]

having 6 rooms is reserved for good raids (tna)

[zealous garnet]

boulders can be replaced with enemy golems which also attack the golem (now there’s 2 threats to worry about)
golems activate the enemy golems by going next to it and players can start dpsing it and advance
idk if this will speed up the room a bit

[steep granite]

Tna has like the best rooms

[fervent gyro]

#1290970535941111849 message

[steep granite]

But like the light room and berry room kinda need some changes

[still orchid]

light room is easy af yeah

[fervent gyro]

Berry room is just one guy punching shit while the other three damage farm.

[steep granite]

Rs

Berry room is damage farm room cause its literally just the same layout

[fervent gyro]

Light room is uhh…

[steep granite]

Then light room is like shadowlings spawn in the same 2 spots rhen you sit at protal and nuke the miniboss

[fervent gyro]

Conceptually it’s nice, but why am I getting damaged for no reason despite being at a reasonable from the light bearer?

[steep granite]

The mini boss is cool too its just like u can just sit infront of the portal

[fervent gyro]

Other than that it’s like.

[brazen forge]

Light room was good until they nerfed it in 2.1 for some reason

[steep granite]

Nah the parkour was mad annoying

[fervent gyro]

A gamble between dying and living because I forgot to /ignore my teammates.

I can’t see the bat’s attacks whatsoever, so I just hope for the best.

[steep granite]

Orphian rooms are definitely rooms

[fervent gyro]

Only the maze room is good.

Because it introduces a unique layout.

The other rooms are just copy paste hold-gather-slay rooms.

[next wren]

Every room is a hold gather slay room if you think about it hard enough

[fervent gyro]

And maze room should just have 3 players hold it

The fourth guy literally isn’t necessary except for killing those lightning things.

In which your two teammates should manage already.

And if they fall off you have to wait for them.

At least the boss is the highlight

[dull lotus]

Prob one of those things ct bring up as an idea but the end decision is diff

[turbid grail]

Give them legs

[woeful totem]

https://medal.tv/games/minecraft/clips/jezEGjgRW9Kl3Yp3d?invite=cr-MSxSNjcsMjcxNzU1MjA4LA

ez boss

[slim pier]

nice blind shockwave dodge

[next wren]

Ah hell nah bros using a fiery aura scroll thats crazy

Ill respect the shockwave dodge tho that was clean

[brazen forge]

People in my guild pop windy watery and fiery for tna just cuz of dxp weekend leftovers lol

[fervent gyro]

The hardest part about this raid is getting my guildmates to actually do it.