Can we stop pushing content with no fucking warning???

[strong dock]

yeah it's better considering the game was unplayable during peak hours but it's still one of the reasons I quit

[wraith glade]

if guild tome skillpoints are removed

im stealing from guild bank

[young tusk]

this buddy so silly what the hell 😭 😭 😭

[karmic rapids]

From my perspective it's not so much what you think
I just can't agree with you
Sorry, no

[hollow hearth]

meet me outside

[kind osprey]

do the cts even have the final say on what gets pushed or not? it reads to me like insulting someone for something they didn't even have control over

[dull urchin]

half of my brain tells me that tome sp removal was a good thing and the other half is drunkenly telling me that tome sp removal is the reason why twfa is unusable now

[rocky schooner]

its partially on me for not knowing when the push was over- i thought it was, so I uploaded the attack in an unfinished state so I could test it on GM servers. turns out it wasnt, so the attack got pushed to live

[kind osprey]

oh boy does that sound familiar to our workflow :^)

been there, done that, gotten scolded for it :^)

[hollow hearth]

tome sp removal was a good thing, got rid of a lot of min maxing that was not needed. Killing meta builds is also good cause it makes the game more fun and the gameplay more diverse. If only, ya know... instead of nerfing everything to below par performance we kept everything at a good level with nerfs and buffs keeping items and playstyles fun and not just cause I hate seeing that build in pfinder grr im mad and sad.

[wraith glade]

i like being strong not weak

[rocky schooner]

idk if im gonna get scolded for it (besides from the community lol)- the attack is essentially done it just needs updated visuals since rn its using the same models as the small sigil attack

[hollow hearth]

too bad, take it up with management and HR

[kind osprey]

hey being drug through the mud with the community can be worse depending on who you ask

shit happens, could be much worse :^)

p.s; make an experimental branch that doesn't get pulled into live directly

[dull urchin]

we should go back to 1.18 wynncraft it was so peak (based take)

[proud walrus]

i appreciate the transparency

[humble hemlock]

ill forgive if you buff yogurt gang cache chances <3

[kind osprey]

go back to 2016 wynncraft

[rocky schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/let-me-make-myself-very-clear-let-me-make-myself-gif-26560967

[proud walrus]

i dont think you get how much people appreciate you saying this

at least i do

[signal berry]

Love how a simple mistake turns in to "how much we can flame the CT" and also treat it like they murdered orphans. Jesus christ guys

[frosty nexus]

i think something should have been posted in noticeboard at the start

[proud walrus]

EXACTLY!

i think there should be a board for the content team to make announcements

[frosty nexus]

that ties back to the discussion about an actual changelog which is apparently not feasible

[proud walrus]

yeah idk

[karmic rapids]

Are you sure that pushing it soon is a good idea still despite of outside issues like lag

[proud walrus]

in all honesty, i think an apology for the mistake goes a long way, even if it was an accident. thats just a life lesson thing. i really appreciate tealy being transparent and apologizing but the reason this argument went out of control was because one person in ct just wanted to escalate the situation and argue with people who were reasonably upset

[rocky schooner]

with lag, i think its less of a danger than New Sun

[frosty nexus]

wynncraft pr is just complete horseshit and nonexistent which is a factor in toxicity towards the ct

[karmic rapids]

Yes

[kind osprey]

you'd be surprised how hard it is to get a content team to help make some form of changelogs, tbh

[proud walrus]

yeah this is very true

[karmic rapids]

I guess with sun you can just always aim upwards to predict it

[sturdy frigate]

asking for an apology over one thing in wynncraft is kinda wild

[karmic rapids]

Lb is at least capable of doing something trough 100k pings+ due to its simplicity

[signal berry]

This community is just acting like a entitled brat right now towards the CT.

[karmic rapids]

Also one question
How likely is in the future to give annie second chance mechanic like dungeons have it currently?

[proud walrus]

nice downplay

[sturdy frigate]

one attack that could still be avoided and wasnt just a "you lose" attack

[rocky schooner]

prolly like 0

[karmic rapids]

Sad, it could really use it :/

[rocky schooner]

actually maybe 4%

[sturdy frigate]

like yeah it mightve been a bit (lot) hard to see but like get over it

[rocky schooner]

idk we'll see, would be a salted decision

[proud walrus]

i dont even want to argue with you on this man just get some context

[signal berry]

It's not a downplay mythicman. Your treatment to the CT puts you on the side of giving an apology. Stop trying to treat it like you're the victim when i had to constantly see you being up there for toxicity to the CT and then demanding an apology from them.

[sturdy frigate]

i did annie today. i saw the thing. i avoided it. its not impossible

[proud walrus]

???

[proud walrus]

hindsight bias but okay

[karmic rapids]

Oh dear God
I hope his mood will be good the day he'll make that decision

[sturdy frigate]

not saying it was completely fair but it already happened anyways next annie everyone will be prepared

[proud walrus]

i was never toxic to ct??? what???

[sturdy frigate]

this sounds almost sarcastic

[cosmic lava]

this is such a nothingburger argument i personally wouldnt give a shit if they apologized although i know other people would but it doesnt change that the base mistake happened and we should wonder how to prevent it

[proud walrus]

nah can we have some evidence based conversation

u cant just say im toxic without at least showing where im being toxic

[signal berry]

oh wait sorry. wrong guy. I'm looking at the other guy. One who changed his mc name mid convo.

[proud walrus]

tealy did that, he apologized and was transparent about what happened

he literally did the great thing and im happy about it

[cosmic lava]

wait then why is this argument happening

[proud walrus]

its just people without context continuing it...

[cosmic lava]

theres no way... an online argument..... can be pointless......... ...right..?!?!?

[signal berry]

tbf i've just been reading the thread. There was like 7 arguments in the past 300 messages

It's a lot of genuine criticism mixed with "How much can we get away with dogpiling CT"

[proud walrus]

no i think the issue is

one CT was transparent and apologized and it gave a lot of clarity, the other was someone, not naming who, was doing the exact opposite

[azure patio]

yes, the one CT who created the issue apologized. that is what should be expected, yes

the one who actually caused the problem is the one that should apologize, if anyone, right?

[kind osprey]

something something fire with fire doesn't make it right

[signal berry]

Why's madeline getting the treatment again?

[azure patio]

like, you don't see friend A drop a plate and tell friend B to apologize, right

[proud walrus]

yeah but there should be some degree of unity from CT about this

[wraith heron]

should the whole ct not be held resposible as a collective for an early content push error?

[signal berry]

.... please tell me you're joking

[azure patio]

no, because it isn't anywhere close to being the whole CT's fault?

[kind osprey]

in what world does collective punishment exist outside of like, elementary school

[wraith heron]

there is no unity in your team?

[azure patio]

no, because it isn't anywhere close to being the whole CT's fault?

[cosmic lava]

collective punishment is such a myth man

[kind osprey]

collective punishment doesn't even exist in a professional workforce lmao

[proud walrus]

its not punishment

[wraith glade]

@fiery sedge... apologize for pushing annie.

[wraith heron]

you are all individuals with no collective? and thus no agreed upon responsibility?

[kind osprey]

technically with that logic the ct manager should apologize for the error :^)

[signal berry]

who all do their own thing in the game.

[cosmic lava]

ok so if ur working on a group project in school and one kid decides to go vape in the bathrooms on the day of the presentation and not present their slides the whole group deserves to be punished

[proud walrus]

i would apologize on behalf of my group

[kind osprey]

this is normal, you'll see it all over. people struggle to express negative emotions so when they do it's often in an abrasive manner even if they don't intend it to be

[wraith heron]

is apoligizing punishment???????????

[proud walrus]

if i was in charge of the group yes, but even as a collaborator

this isnt punishment this is clarity

[azure patio]

we work together as a team, yes, so some decisions are on the collective, but it's vanishingly few due to how the team is split up. there's builders, GMs, QA testers, scripters, modelers, IMs, mob designers, artists, and all of these are separate teams that typically only interact with each other as general conversation or when things gotta align with each other(modelers with GMs, for example).

in this instance, only one person was responsible for the issue.

[thorn root]

https://tenor.com/view/smooth-brain-gif-13983164398694002589

[azure patio]

a single GM, tealy in this case, accidentally messed up and put some changes in a place where they would be pushed without anyone realizing

[signal berry]

defintely an extreme this time now though

[azure patio]

why would the entire GM team need to apologize for that?

[proud walrus]

honestly i get that but another CT shouldnt contradict what tealy is doing by apologizing. thats all im saying

[azure patio]

What?

[kind osprey]

idk if i'd call this an extreme. even for mc servers this is pretty tame

[signal berry]

Especially since some people have SOMEHOW worked it in to their head the CT is a hive mind and all of them are a single entity

[azure patio]

Explain that to me like I'm five. I can't parse what you're trying to say

[signal berry]

oh i meant an extreme in what the CT gets. Normally it's not really this bad. Or major

[proud walrus]

ok tealy apologized but another person who i dont want to mention was almost defending actions and justifying what happened

which is exactly the opposite of what tealy was doing

[wraith heron]

no, tealy, or anyone, should apologize on behalf of the entire ct. tealy can also apologize himself aswell that also works along with the first thing

[fiery sedge]

this is bonkers

[azure patio]

that doesn't answer my question. why would the entire CT need to apologize for a genuine mistake that only a single person made?

[signal berry]

why are 2 people saying madeline should of apologised for something she didn't even do?

[proud walrus]

she shouldnt have been involved

[wraith heron]

what do you mean entire ct?

like all of them make a statement?

[proud walrus]

why is she trying to argue with people that are upset instead of letting tealy do his thing

[azure patio]

You're insisting we need a collective apology, or you were a few minutes ago at least

[proud walrus]

okay is what im saying reasonable though?

[wraith heron]

from one person.

[signal berry]

... because one of you wise guys was trying to make it sound like unfinished content is CONSTANTLY pushed

[torpid sierra]

Permission number #4 **.sm utility disable ** is preventing this action.

[proud walrus]

NO

there are just a lot of instances of a lack of transparency about content pushes, or sometimes its not well communicated

[signal berry]

YES. I literally had to check. A certain someone in this conversation right now was the reason madeline got involved. Do not try and go "but um actually" that is exactly what happened.
"also please take more caution to try and avoid having unfinished content pushed to live again, i feel it happens way too often."

[azure patio]

I'm looking through the messages, and what you're saying was happening didn't happen. I'm looking through this right now and I do not see how anything was being justified by this supposed nameless person?

[kind osprey]

ah, you mean extreme for wynn that's fair. i for one am enjoying the constant feedback drama loop

[azure patio]

I don't see any arguments outside of "it was unfinished, so judging it as is is unfair, it wasn't supposed to happen, and this doesn't happen often" from this supposed nameless person. What's the problem with that?

[signal berry]

I have 0 respect for this "collective apology" take.

[azure patio]

Why does the apology need to be collective when it was only one person's fault?

[proud walrus]

because it escalates the situation when it should be descalated

[signal berry]

This is completely fair. I should of really stuck with the popcorn i just feel bad for CT too much

[cosmic lava]

this has lost all sight of the original issue

the goal posts: 💨

[azure patio]

It really doesn't. Those are explanations, not excuses, not escalations. If that was the case, then no one could have said anything, or else it would have "escalated" things.

[low zephyr]

half the shit yall push out is unfinished and unwarranted so why would this be any different. also stop dancing around the name of the ct, everyone knows its tealy

[thorn root]

🎣

[signal berry]

oh no they're all blaming madeline

saying she should of apologised as well.

[azure patio]

when all she did was say the same things I said earlier.

[kind osprey]

as a manager for work i get it

[azure patio]

And when I said it multiple people pointed at me and were like "yeah we agree, this is a good mature take"

[kind osprey]

i don't necessarily agree but i can see the point they're making

[azure patio]

so why's it bad for her to say it, but okay when I did?

[proud walrus]

im not asking for an apology from madeline btw, im just saying when people are upset about something happening you shouldnt go and argue with them

[azure patio]

that's a double standard, and she didn't approach it with any particular hostility

neither did I. what could she have done differently? if it was a problem for her to do it, why wasn't it a problem when I did it?

[signal berry]

Eh. In the hospitality side (fast food) every single one of my co-workers hates it so i'm the opposite there.

[kind osprey]

generally speaking a leader will take the fall for the team. in that context i can see the point. on the flip side, the argument comes off as "random ct members should apologize" which is just not how it works in this industry: freelance, volunteer or otherwise

[wraith heron]

to de-escalate the situation earlier, i asked unamed person for an apology, not from them specifically, but just in general.

[rancid jasper]

Yap yap who y’all voting for trump or Kamala

[signal berry]

yeah. Easy to respect a leader who takes responsibility but when outsiders start picking who should apologise it gets messy.

[cosmic lava]

im voting for

[kind osprey]

🎣

[echo nebula]

i voted for myself

[kind osprey]

[rancid jasper]

What will you do as president

[echo nebula]

delete wynn

[cosmic lava]

i may have to vote for autosmord as well

[rancid jasper]

You have my vote

[azure patio]

How would it de-escalate when she wasn't actually escalating? As I said, I said the same things she was saying and got told by people that I had a good, mature, reasonable take. She wasn't any more hostile than I was, she didn't cherrypick or insult or rile up any more than I did

[kind osprey]

can we go back to blaming everything on lightbender, that arc of this thread was funnier

[barren niche]

lmfao

true

[kind osprey]

lightbender is RUINING MY LIFE please nerf it

[cosmic lava]

lightbender killed my family

[azure patio]

Again, it's a double standard. I didn't do anything wrong, and she echoed my points. So why was it okay for me to say it, but not her? You're being totally unfair- and, to bring it back around to the point you were accused of, both you and @proud walrus, being toxic.

[signal berry]

lightbender just existing to be hated now is getting exhausting. Especially since... Certain people keep fueling that flame.
Can we just start hating paladin's already.

[kind osprey]

selvut going in for the kill

[kind osprey]

i just think it's hilarious how every topic comes back to it lol

[wraith heron]

does the content team as a collective feel sorry about this mistake or is it just tealycraft?

[cosmic lava]

i think we should hate tricksters

[azure patio]

Continuing to dogpile on her when she didn't do anything more than I did, and I was complimented for what I did, is needless hostility. That's toxicity.

[cosmic lava]

idk why i just think it would be funny for no reason

[azure patio]

Why would the collective team need to feel sorry about it when this was one person's fault

[thorn root]

🎣

[rancid jasper]

Personally I hate boltslingers more

[signal berry]

Agreed. tricksters are bad at the game

[cosmic lava]

play the evolved ele def abuse and your brain chemistry will be altered for the better

[rancid jasper]

I’ll stick to my morph the nothing

[wraith heron]

because you develop the game and to some extent it is your responsibility, and the community has gotten greatly upset by this error

[azure patio]

That's just straight-up incorrect. The actions of one person can reflect on the whole team, but here? Absolutely not the case. This was Tealy's error, he's already working on fixing it, he already apologized, no one else needed to, and your insistence that the entire team is in part responsible for the errors of one person is absolutely ridiculous.

[thorn root]

🎣

[proud walrus]

it truthfully felt like she wasnt acknowledging barled's frustrations especially on the subject of unintended or unfinished content pushes, i didnt really interact with deusphage that much in this whole thing, but i didnt appreciate how she responded to barled's criticism

[dark ridge]

my god dude let it go it’s ONE anni out of many

[sturdy frigate]

stop coping

[dark ridge]

it was one accident bruh

[wraith heron]

i dont care that i lost

[echo nebula]

keep this up

[thorn root]

actual fish

[proud walrus]

idk how im getting hit with toxicity claims when no one has pointed out anything toxic that ive said

[kind osprey]

idk if i'd call 47 s "greatly upset". some people are greatly upset, but some people are always greatly upset

[azure patio]

I mapped out exactly what the problem was, dude.

[signal berry]

also barled treating it like this happens a lot when the last major issue like this was I think when strength/dexterity got buffed to hell with 0 warning is a weird take.
also bank wipe but that was such an obscure bug they thankfully fixed/restored You can't even blame anyone there

[kind osprey]

im greatly upset that I don't have 1 bank tab of LE please fix this issue instantly or i'll blame lightbender* for me being broke

[wraith heron]

ok thanks, i already saw, and appreciate tealy's apology.

[proud walrus]

u didnt have this whole argument with barled, and also idk why this whole toxic word is being thrown around i dont even think i called her toxic

[wraith heron]

idol nerf

[azure patio]

"I didn't say to boil it, I just said to put it in a pot with water that's been heated above 100 degrees C."

Not an excuse- just because you didn't Specifically Use The One Word doesn't mean you weren'y implying things, doesn't mean your tone wasn't off, doesn't mean you weren't making needlessly hostile statements, doesn't mean you weren't taking things way out of proportion to accentuate the negative.

[proud walrus]

i just said her arguing was escalating things, and then it turned into a sympathy situation and we looked bad

[azure patio]

Then why wasn't it escalating things when I said the exact same thing?

[signal berry]

I said major I.e affected nearly the entire community.

[dull urchin]

wynncraft constructive feedback ers learn when to stop talking challenge impossible 😊

[azure patio]

Can you answer that?

[proud walrus]

you didnt say it multiple times along with other arguments going on in this thread

[wraith heron]

this didnt effect the entire community lol...

[dull urchin]

it is honestly baffling how we've managed to extend this toxicity conversation for almost 3 hours at this point

[neon heron]

Great reading tho

[wraith heron]

that doesnt mean it doesnt matter

[proud walrus]

i literally wasnt

[signal berry]

A significant portion who do anni (as much as i dislike it a lot of people do it)

[kind osprey]

the tea is still boiling dw

[proud walrus]

u cant assume what my tone is like that?

[azure patio]

Again, I looked back through her messages. She didn't say anything I didn't say- and talking with more than one person means repeating yourself on occasion.

[dull urchin]

there were some regrettable things that were said. certain individuals should recognize this and move on with their lives

[signal berry]

This thread just makes me feel bad for madeline

she deserves a holiday.

[dull urchin]

there are no personal attacks involved here but I literally walked away from discord for 1 hour and this conversation looks like it hasn't gone anywhere

[gritty stag]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cute-cat-yap-yapper-yapping-gif-5642199211123099306

[wraith heron]

and what, no one has idol?

[dull urchin]

like to those that continue to extend this interaction please consider leaving it to rest or something

[kind osprey]

it'll continue until the next thing that people will yap about

[proud walrus]

okay i think this conversation is going no where, but i want to make it clear that i didnt think anyone was being toxic and i dont appreciate being called toxic over this

arguing =/= toxic

[signal berry]

A decent amount do. But idol nerf didn't affect a good amount of the server

[wraith heron]

and i dont think this did either...

[azure patio]

Yes, exactly, arguing isn't toxic. And she wasn't even arguing, just explaining. You've been needlessly rude when she wasn't and are holding her to a different standard than the rest of us. That is textbook toxicity in the form of a double standard. Just watch your words next time and think about what you say. You're right that it isn't going anywhere, so this'll be the last word on the topic from me, but you should try and do better next time.

[signal berry]

Anyway yeah this thread is done. Let's all stop the arguments because i can't be bothered anymore

[barren niche]

this thread is over

[proud walrus]

what the hell did i say that was toxic?

[barren niche]

goodbye