General feedback about the game in the past years

[elfin pumice]

To start, I am by no means a good arguer, a good writer, or even a good player, but I have played the game on and off the past few years and wanted to share my thoughts on it.
The main point of this post is to kind of share my experience through the game's changes and updates, and how they almost always sort of drove me away from the game, with a few key exceptions. For reference, I found Wynn around 2 years ago, and fell in love with it. I loved the unique combat system and quests that really made you immersed in the storyline. Now old wynn did have a lotta problems, but it was just simpler times. Aside from the lack of content and affordable builds, it still was an enjoyable game, with legendary island being my favorite thing to do (il get into why its not anymore later).
Now recently, the updates have sort have started to completely rebalance/change the way the game is meant to be played, and how certain things worked. Specifically 2.0, the spellbound update. I loved this update on release, with all the new archetypes and playstyles that were introduced, and with all of them being (somewhat) viable, it was a great update to play around and get good progression in it. It also introduced lootrunning which im personally a fan of, but was obviously disliked by some of the older players. But yeah very fun I liked it yes cool. The problem with it sort of started with the overtuning of the power of the archetypes. I think this is where it all went downhill
cont in comments

Obviously, everyone was comically overpowered if they didnt change anything about the mobs. I agree they had to change something, but I feel with the complications it just sort of ended up a little janky. (ex, some mobs one shotting for no reason and some tickling you with a feather). one specific change I noticed was Legendary island becoming near unplayable because it was so comically difficult. For reference, I soloed LI pre spellbound with an overdrive morph set. It was still challenging, but not basically impossible. this problem became more apparent with the rekindled world update, with basically everything getting a health/damage buff with the player themselves getting basically nothing. It can get a little frustrating going update to update having to completely change your whole playstyle you learned and loved just because the game is so difficult at this point thats its just annoying to run something else. Im by NO MEANS saying its not possible to, but its an insane difference from every class being able to play the game to the same degree as every other.
at the end of all of it, im just tired. specifically with this last balance patch, nerfing rainbow items (needed but not the point of this) it just sort of feels demotivating
I kind of just want to play the game for how good it is, not have to make a new build every 1.5 weeks because of how the game gets progressively more difficult each patch, with more nerfs being added instead of buffs
Basically i signed up for wynncraft, a minecraft mmorpg and not like dark souls or something im just tired of all these changes which make the game less fun with the explaination of "balancing"

is it really balancing if the scales are so tilted against the players?
and are items really overpowered or are the other items just underpowered?
sorry this ended up sounding like a gradually declining english essay, i just want to share my thoughts about the game
lastly, please no harrasment of ct or salted, despite my disagreements with their decisions, they still like made the game yk
tldr: IMO the game has been gradually declining in the name of balancing, and getting harder for no particular reason

english essay ass post, also vote how you individually think, this is not to garner support, just a way to explain my thoughts

[soft sapphire]

I find myself wishing that 1.20 wynn was still around maybe a little too often for my own good

like whenever I go on wynn I just think about how glorious 1.20 wynn was and how much I wish it never got kicked to the curb 😭

not that all post 2.0 changes are terrible but 1.20 was a simpler time - there wasn't a whole atree to balance and mob health felt fair enough + dps wasn't terribly overtuned

[wary cairn]

Death by overbalancing and underewarding

The rewards didn't improve as the game got harder

[soft sapphire]

like flapis and larzlapis crafteds were probably somewhat unhealthy

[dusty junco]

Elaborate

[soft sapphire]

hellish cinders was definitely unhealthy

[wary cairn]

Bring flapis skill points back, it should be mandatory

[elfin pumice]

1.20 was simpler, thus more easy to balance
new wynn is more complex, thus harder to balance
and that comes at the expense of the players

[soft sapphire]

but I think in general everything had its place and niche somewhere in the game (including toxo!1 1!! 111!!!)

[elfin pumice]

in a non competitive game, balancing is less of an issue
which leads me to wonder why its such an INSANELY prevalent issue in current day wynn

[eternal bison]

just wait and see how many players will stop playing after this last patch, a lot of people were already fed up with the bad state of the server and their builds getting blown up in the middle of the night was the nail on the coffin.

[wary cairn]

I elaborated in the past already

[dusty junco]

well i aint finding it lol unless u link it
that just feels weird to say

[elfin pumice]

especially the way they do it, which leads to people flocking to a specific overpowered playstyle just because its the only way to keep up with the steadily increasing difficulty of the game

[wary cairn]

That's fair

[soft sapphire]

I'm not even joking when I say this

[elfin pumice]

to add to my point, heres me soloing death metal in morph overdrive in 1.20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Laz5CgnpL0

[soft sapphire]

I still feel like 2.0 """fixed""" a bunch of things that were orders of magnitude less problematic than the variables it introduced

[wary cairn]

Raw LE only really get you items that are only like, 10% better on the TM to fight hard bosses

Aspect system sucks harder than a space vacuum

Tome nerf

The only semi reward that's worth it in rekindled are the new items,and of course annihilation

[elfin pumice]

im not gon rant about anni rn lol but ye aspects are kinda used as an excuse rn as to why things are harder, leading people to scramble to aspects to try and make the game easier again

[soft sapphire]

like. int scaling """fixed""" (ok, breakpoints weren't that bad but... sure?), intless spell nerfed across the board (ok I have no idea why this was an issue when intless already gets negative damage stats without flapis), removal of terraced mr and ms (sure?)

but 2.0 completely cucked int for like 2 months, introduced an entire atree system that has proven to be extremely difficult to balance, killed a bunch of items and playstyles, etc

[wary cairn]

In the name of balancing Wynn is getting ruined, and only people who understand super abstract class building can actually enjoy

[soft sapphire]

I'll put it this way

I like 2.0 wynn theorycrafting more, but I like playing the 1.20 game more

[elfin pumice]

this

[soft sapphire]

I've always loved class building but these days I wake up and class build instead of waking up to play the game 😭 😭

[wary cairn]

Theory crafting is only as fun as it is because you don't lose anything when IMs nerf shit again

[eternal bison]

yeah but when you tell them that doing 100 tna runs(real number) and getting 0 mythics on the only class you play is bad, they tell you that aspects are "optional"

[wary cairn]

It's inconsequential fun, which is what a game should be

[elfin pumice]

also, am i the only one who finds building tiring? sometimes i want to play the game instead of finding a build, just for it to be not suitible for the game, and then having to restart until i find some basic overpowered build so i can just play the game again

[soft sapphire]

of course that maybe also has to do with the fact that my free time has shrunken over time as I've slowly aged out of playing block games seriously but it just feels so hard to get into wynn when applicable build diversity has basically been strangled to death

[eternal bison]

best solution to this is dungeon, event items

[wary cairn]

And then you need to grind for those items

I grinded hard to buy a blue keratoconus and a good Capricorn and then hero got nerfed 2 days later

I'm so bored of Wynncraft balancing tbh

[eternal bison]

at least thats what i do

[dusty junco]

• the reasoning you gave for le is just wrong idk what that phrasing is but i get your reasonsing its buying power is quite bad rn
• aspect system despite being very similar to tomes is actually quite fun and espically rewards endgame players starting new classes for a headstart
• tome nerf was needed, % DR and % dmg mult. was too op
• new items are always nice :)

[celest iris]

I though you left.

[eternal bison]

and why shouldn't aspect system reward players that stick to one class despite the stupid meta?

[wary cairn]

I disagree with the aspect point because some endgame players already chose what to do

But then you raid for one week and never get what you want

[dusty junco]

its not super abstract its basic balancing, meta shouldnt be dominated by 3 items lol

[celest iris]

😭

[wary cairn]

In always happy to make the lives of toxic people like you more miserable

[elfin pumice]

imma add, the way to balance things is not always to nerf them. I get funny powercreep, but nerfing items is nearly always less preferrable to adding a cheaper/more obtainable option thats near to equal to the ability of the first

[celest iris]

Toxic??????

That's bananas.

[dusty junco]

thats a fair complaint, i am biased when i say that since i have max classes, i dont have any counter to that

[soft sapphire]

I genuinely feel that wynn has choked out almost all of the thriving build diversity that was in 1.20

[wary cairn]

Aren't you the guy who pinged me in the prof discord to laugh in my face for quitting

[soft sapphire]

it has replaced it to some extent with atree diversity

[atomic lagoon]

I think this has been a noticeable problem for the past like 1-2 years

[dusty junco]

raids are far more replayable now and making all 4 of them valuable instead of just like 2

[elfin pumice]

also stop arguing pls im trying talk about the game not about random crap

[soft sapphire]

but recent across-the-board nerfs have served more than anything to completely homogenize all viable builds and turn them into carbon copies of the meta

[atomic lagoon]

There's not many options for classes, especially when we're talking about ppl who want to do raids

[wary cairn]

Uh not really, before rekindled only 1 raid was valuable

Now in rekindled two raids are

[atomic lagoon]

or there are options but some are boring as shit and some require a lot of money

[wary cairn]

It's an improvement I'm ngl

[dusty junco]

you are false

[soft sapphire]

like I vividly remember one particular day during winter break in 2021 when I cooked up an eta stalactite hero build and used it in li or forgery or something and it actually worked and I was so happy because it was cool

[eternal bison]

my best friend has also maxed all classes so i feel ya, but on the other side i have been a grandmaster raided since week 1, i was top 130tna till 3 days ago, and yet i havent upgraded a single archer mythic, i honestly gave up on raids and just chill in lutho again like some dead days back in february, just hoping they will eventually allow me to trade 100 warrior aspects for 1 archer aspect

[dusty junco]

all four are viable im not sure why you are saying 2

[soft sapphire]

that sort of core memory is gone forever

[wary cairn]

Grootslang and Orphion give you less by default

[elfin pumice]

i think the problem is that you cant just play whatever you want and succeed. I feel you should be able to

[dusty junco]

mmmh fair enough

[soft sapphire]

there ARE no more hero stalactite builds that are viable enough for use in general content

[dusty junco]

giving less doesnt completely invalidate them

[wary cairn]

The game doesn't guide you either

Your build is gone the next day and you don't know why

[soft sapphire]

and that fact makes me sad

[elfin pumice]

happened this morning (i dared to use libra in my build)

[eternal bison]

the issue starts with warrior and this is no joke. warrior without wynntils is fairly balanced, warrior with wynntils is like playing a whole different game

[atomic lagoon]

I disagree, I think building should be thought about in some matter and some content deserves to be hard in an mmorpg for there to be any kind of ceiling

[soft sapphire]

the fact that wynn difficulty has been artificially ramped up so much might make meta slavers feel more alive but it's also slowly strangled off "practical theorycrafting"

[dusty junco]

as much as i dont like saying it you have a point for these type of things, but off meta builders like chad euouae are proving all you really need is some knowhow and skill and you can still compete with some of the good stuff

[soft sapphire]

also like. can we please please please stop bringing the same 3 complaints about reward amounts into every single feedback thread

[elfin pumice]

i can see your point, and i agree that not everything should be viable for EVERYTHING, but at this point in the game its less of "use this to beat the hardest content" and more like "use this to beat any content"

[atomic lagoon]

so true I'm tired of seeing it every thread

[blissful pendant]

is it not taught by you putting together random gear as you progress

[soft sapphire]

I get that all of you raid players are sad and angry that your complaints are not being listened to but this is wrong thread to talk about that sort of issue

[dusty junco]

real

[wary cairn]

It's related

You can use whatever build to raid but you won't be getting enough for your efforts because the rewards are bad, only players who know how to build in this confusing game can feel fulfilled

[soft sapphire]

holy shit

[celest iris]

https://tenor.com/view/stan-twitter-monkey-sad-depressed-bored-gif-14632661802414689947

[atomic lagoon]

I would definitely like more nuanced builds being viable I don't really see a problem with general use builds, glassy builds or "meta" builds still exist

[dusty junco]

lets respect az users request so we can have a good convo here :)

[soft sapphire]

this is true and I need to stop running my mouth in these feedback threads before I get memed into oblivion for saying dumb things without thinking

but I remember when someone (might've been euouae, actually) who cooked up haul cavalryman back in early 1.20

that sort of hyper-niche buildcrafting used to happen every other week

[dusty junco]

YEAH i love haul cavalaryman
but whats better is aspects make it super cool

but yeah yeah i geet what you are saying (the ghost of hotfix 6 and also 2.0 balancing being ass)

[elfin pumice]

i think the last point i can think of is the honestly disregard for player opinion. in an mmorpg the playerbase is the players, but like i feel like especially in wynn rn its all kinda thrown to the side for the most part, with very good suggestions for improvements thrown to the side for the reasons of "some people would abuse/dislike this" or "dev time" which kinda confuses me

[soft sapphire]

I've seen it happen like twice in the past 4 months (bamboozle shade & totem shatter)

and it's not that niche playstyles don't exist

[dusty junco]

mmmmmmmh those exist in offmeta circles and i wish it was used more often because they are fun

[soft sapphire]

I know for certain that shadetrickbat is alive and kicking

[dusty junco]

thats why i want rainbow to exist less so those have a chance to garner attention but this is not going to happen

[soft sapphire]

it's just that the current wynn meta makes it literally impossible to use cool builds because they just don't perform well enough in most content

[atomic lagoon]

it definitely is lmao, as someone with a few playthroughs I can see myself getting drawn to specific armor in low-mid level
it's just that building with so many endgame items and the current state of build toxicity and raids is probably tough for newer players

[celest iris]

R U a blues builds enjoyers?

I have a feeling you might be.

[soft sapphire]

which in turn discourages experimentation

[celest iris]

Something tells me.

[wary cairn]

I'm not in that discord

[celest iris]

I'm shook.

[atomic lagoon]

I agree, if the point of their recent rainbow nerf was to motivate experimentation and nuance, then they should make nuanced builds actually viable

[polar nexus]

if he was he would prob be using morph collapse 💀

[elfin pumice]

the only reason rainbow builds are so good is because the other build options arent suitable for the game rn. and nerfing rainbow builds only really makes sense in the case of other builds becoming viable again (which they arent rn) leading to people just quitting because the game keeps getting harder without any way to counteract it

[wary cairn]

SP reqs are too high in rekindled

[soft sapphire]

idk I have really contradictory opinions when it comes to this and ongoing rainbow sp nerfs because it's like. if rainbow sp is nerfed funny builds get more attention, but at the same time the gateway that gave funny builds an audience was sealed shut ages ago so maybe it's best to allow rainbow to continue existing...?

[wary cairn]

This truly because the nerf update many people feared ngl

[wary cairn]

Agree completely

[dusty junco]

thats very true and valid, im always afraid of buffing certain things because of it being abused into meta or contriubing to the problem

[blissful pendant]

it's been the nerf update for a while now

[soft sapphire]

my opinion on rainbow slap hasn't really settled yet and I probably shouldn't have written an entire essay this morning on the "undeserved" nerfs since I ran my mouth and said questionable things

"niche bashscream builds" 😂 😂

[dusty junco]

lmao

[wary cairn]

At least everyone is suffering the pain and anger I went through now, it's comforting to know I'm not alone

[dusty junco]

well its good you have learned some things

[elfin pumice]

i think one of the main points of this thread is that WE keep getting nerfed into the ground, with everything else getting buffed an insane amount

[soft sapphire]

^^^

[elfin pumice]

and this is the only reason i can see that rainbow builds are so good, just because they make the game honestly playable again

[dusty junco]

WE?

[elfin pumice]

the playerbase

[dusty junco]

oh i thought you meant like an anagram lol (world events came to mind)

[wary cairn]

Not we, only the 14 different archetypes that aren't lightbender

[elfin pumice]

lol

[polar nexus]

the only word in ur vocab is lightbender

can u not just use spectrum now for many of the "rainbow slap" builds lol

[dusty junco]

spectrum (rare helmet reference)

[soft sapphire]

rainbow is good because it simplifies class building

[atomic lagoon]

I agree, making builds viable especially for boss altars and other repeatable bosses would be very satisfying

[elfin pumice]

i get your hatred for lb, but again the only reason its so good is because everything else is undertuned

[celest iris]

I think we are finally seeing the long term affects of microplastics in the brain.

[dusty junco]

mmh yeah, now that i think about it wynn is having a hard time catering to what vision they want vs the playerbase who depend on rainbow to survive per say

[wary cairn]

That's fair..

I'm honestly just really jealous

[soft sapphire]

nerfing everything just makes people turn towards crafteds which are inifnitely more difficult to manage

[atomic lagoon]

I think crafteds should be reserved for minmaxing and those type of builds

[soft sapphire]

this is of course me speaking before the inevitable crafted nerf of '87 that is going to make every raider roll over in their grave

[elfin pumice]

and honestly, i dont blame you. I also want to be comfortable to play the game well while not playing lightbender

[polar nexus]

make crafted sp count 🗣️

[atomic lagoon]

yeah if ur armor breaks tho ur cooked

[rancid bloom]

There is a reason it does not.

[polar nexus]

ik i was joking lol

[dusty junco]

the more i talk in these convos the more i wish there was just a sliver of dev time for sp scaling rebalancing which would (i believe) immediatly solve several problems

[atomic lagoon]

fully naked while greg is beating you up

[rancid bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-explosion-sad-explode-gif-15295996165959499721

[dusty junco]

el gato explatonto

[atomic lagoon]

[elfin pumice]

hi ct
(id like to reiterate that this post is not to throw shame at ct)

[rancid bloom]

Mmh. I contemplated responding to it because some stuff is wrong but

[elfin pumice]

please do, i like hearing what people think

[rancid bloom]

I did not want to potentially create a back and forth about that stuff

Alright

[elfin pumice]

this isnt meant to be an argument on my side, just feedback yk

[celest iris]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/crafter/#1+W+W7H+W7H+W9i91 This is now broken with vaward nerf tbh.

I'm going to be real.

[dusty junco]

like sp scaing change would reward builds more that spec into a element highly which is needed since meta is rainbow, they can just change stats towards the higher end just make the 0-50 go to 0-60 or something, where most rainbow builds can still mostly benefit so it doesnt completely screw rainbowover

[polar nexus]

doesnt count for sp reqs

[wary cairn]

All I know is that IMs are about to face hell with every single SP req to rebalance

Or maybe they won't and keep it as it is

[dusty junco]

i think the balancing can be done right and still keep reqs balanced (WOW that was a repetitive sentence)

[elfin pumice]

my english teacher is rolling in his grave fr

[dusty junco]

they gonna rise from the grave and strangle me when they see my spelling

[celest iris]

Idk I personally think with this update mythical hoof should be nerfed for consistency.

Idk how is in charge of that but it seems like a pretty broken ing ngl.

[dusty junco]

its static sp so not neccessarily broken

[polar nexus]

how is it broken when it doesnt count towards reqs

[soft sapphire]

I personally think that like half of all ingredients are going to get nerfed into oblivion next patch

[nocturne crown]

was ranbow slap strong because of the sp or the other stuff

[celest iris]

Bro 💀

[dusty junco]

oh yeah im excited for next ingred patch

[rancid bloom]

• Almost all mobs (like 98%) were rebalanced with their buffed stats manually and with care, if a mob hits you lightly it's almost certainly because it is intended to, and same if the opposite.
• Part of the issue with why the statline feels overtuned for Legendary Island is likely because their abilities are not yet updated, meaning you don't have the best telegraphs and abilities to play around.
• The player got Aspects, but we did not want to give them much of a power boost. This update was about rebalancing the game to be at a difficulty point we wanted, as opposed to the cakewalk it previously was.
• IMs do not make these drastic changes often, and the game is not made progressively more difficult every patch.

Some mobs might be given new AIs and models every patch, but the game isn't being made more difficult

[atomic lagoon]

I think people said it was because it was just boring and in every build and a good option

[dusty junco]

rainbow slap is strong because of the scaling making the first 50 points in an element doing way more then the next 50 or so making it better to spec in everything rathern then "specialize" in one to three with higher amounts (70-100+)

[rancid bloom]

We have settled on the difficulty we want, and stuff like LI is just something getting updated with that

[nocturne crown]

sp, got it

[soft sapphire]

random question do you think the average 1.20 mob health/dps ratio was healthy for the game

[dusty junco]

this causes this weird paradox where its super good and also super bad as i myself have contricted myself in

[soft sapphire]

this isn't a loaded question or anything I'm just curious

[rancid bloom]

i don't think I remember it well enough to be entirely honest

I don't think 2.0 was healthy though

[dusty junco]

sp slap gets you a lot of "bang for your buck" that can outpreform a lot of basic or medicoire builds for so little effort but if you just take time on a good build it sweeps rainbow out of the park

I hope this makes sense i talked about this with other ppl earlier, it was a good convo even if i disagreed with the guy a bit

[soft sapphire]

because to me it feels like wynn is trying to go back to "1.20 difficulty baseline" without actually remembering what 1.20 difficulty baseline felt like or how to translate that onto all the new 2.0 gadgets

[atomic lagoon]

I enjoyed the 1.20 ratio, I feel like you were able to use low-cost builds well and not be too op at the same time

[rancid bloom]

Another element is that we wanted the game to be a bit harder than it was before, but now without any death penalty with the removal of soul points

[deep echo]

when we getting cci on li bosses

[dusty junco]

also we have content completion bonus coming so that will help and i think make players just a bit stronger and be balanced :)

[vivid kraken]

since you dont seem to know what dev time is. Wynncraft does not have many devs (VERY WELL KNOWN) and as a result the things that devs can work on is limited. If something is going to require a whole new system made for it then its gonna take the devs to make it, and devs usually do NOT have the time for it

[deep echo]

pls WHEN its genuinely unplayable on acro (but acro needs a mega buff anyways so)

[polar nexus]

ok nvm thats slightly broken just realized thats only those 2 ingredients u can easily get like 40-60 sp 💀

[dusty junco]

i mean they are reworking LI bosses that is hopefully on their list

[burnt pagoda]

think health regain that is only countered by having higher dps than the amount healed will ever be removed to something that can be prevented so there aren't literally ompossible scenarios

[elfin pumice]

the first point, yeah good point ngl, but the increase of strength leads to complexity in finding builds that work
for the second, it was still comically overtuned, with each attack doing like 1/3 of your hp
3: that might have been your intention, but its at the point rn that aspects seem like the only way to stop from drowning in the sea of endless buffs
4: i flat out disagree. it seems that nearly every patch there are minor changes that end up completely ruining/changing something for the worst
also saying the game isnt being made more difficult is a lie. it might not be intentional, but the game is SIGNIFICANTLY harder than 1.20

[deep echo]

rework is in a while i just want cci so i can play the game

[celest iris]

Sp is still sp.

[elfin pumice]

again, this is a feedback post
i get that there arent many devs, and im not trying to get something changed

[dusty junco]

fair enough but idk if you can rn then

[vivid kraken]

im

[celest iris]

Even if it doesn't contribute.

[vivid kraken]

im answering your question..

[elfin pumice]

OH SORRY LOL

[vivid kraken]

"reasons of "some people would abuse/dislike this" or "dev time" which kinda confuses me "

[elfin pumice]

ye thats myb thx for answering

[rancid bloom]

Yes, it is intentionally harder than 1.20

But we aren't buffing it every patch, lol

[elfin pumice]

am i wrong in asking why? and specifically why it should be

[deep echo]

it is annoying how certain archetypes/classes are still so damn powerful compared to others (no not talking about bender thats just a bug for tcc)

[rancid bloom]

We wanted it to be. The game felt easy to the point it kind of let you turn your brain off a fair bit of the timr

[burnt pagoda]

paladin?

[soft sapphire]

ok it might be the fact that the average difficulty is slightly harder than 1.20 as intended by the standard deviation in effectiveness between playstyles is much higher

[vivid kraken]

oh foxxo 📣

[deep echo]

no

[rancid bloom]

With the new model system and AI systems we wanted to make attacks more damaging but easier to play with

[vivid kraken]

[deep echo]

notice the "not bender"

[vivid kraken]

lmao

[soft sapphire]

so the gap between meta trapstack and like. shadetrickbat is going to be much higher than the gap between divzer and haul cavalryman in 1.20 ever was

[vivid kraken]

but anyways

[deep echo]

cuz bender aint even that strong they just be a yapper

[elfin pumice]

adding on to this, there should be hard parts of the game yes, but having the game be easier on a base level gets players (obviously) and with the game getting harder it ends up just seeming frustrating that something you could do you could no longer do

[vivid kraken]

with the new system it enables us to like

[soft sapphire]

if that makes sense

[vivid kraken]

properly telegraph attacks

[rancid bloom]

While it certainly isn't dark souls, the approach to combat is admittedly closer to it than before

[vivid kraken]

rather than the white particles around mobs

[rancid bloom]

You are meant to learn through deaths and practice

[dusty junco]

at least as a vet yeah im glad the game got harder but at least what im hearing ppl are barely hanging on and rainbow nerfs are hurting them and wanting to quit?
i dont want to say "get good or adapt" because that feels insensitive but yet also even with other options being not as good there needs to be some learning so they can try new things

[wary cairn]

Thank you a lot

[vivid kraken]

the game is harder sure but you are punished a lot less, and will be capable of better understanding what is going on in the fight

[elfin pumice]

this is a good concept, but it just feels bad that the only way to learn/get better is to sort of "waste time" like this

[vivid kraken]

because of the telegraphs

[deep echo]

can certain classes (archer specifically) not be so op in terms of class compared to what should supposedly be the 2nd best class for dps (assassin) like mage warrior (ok idk about warrior lmao prob not) and shaman are all stronger

[burnt pagoda]

i'm honestly not sure if this is a good plan for any minecraft mmo, i feel the inherent issues of being in minecraft will make it very annoying when the server refuses packets for 5 seconds and you get obliterated by the single very dodgeable attack

[atomic lagoon]

I feel like there are still some content where bosses have unreasonable amounts of health (qira for example), and you can easily die whilst being pretty skilled with a good build and knowledge of boss patterns

[elfin pumice]

also because of the sheer amount of mobs and mob abilities in the game, you simply cant remember the cues for each by just learning when you die.

[rancid bloom]

Its not wasting time though. Failing at doing a dungeon or a raid is no different than failing at a boss in another game. If your outlook is that any challenge you do not manage to succeed is a waste of time, then I think you might not like the state of the game because you don't enjoy not always getting the reward of victory when you go up against a challenge

[atomic lagoon]

I think TCC was done nicely and it actually takes skill now rather than 50 gazillion projectiles hitting you

[vivid kraken]

grunt mobs arent gonna have proper ai stuff

[rancid bloom]

Then how can I?

[vivid kraken]

🤷

[deep echo]

lmao

[rancid bloom]

Well, they'll have unique AI, but it'll be very basic melee / ranged stuff

[deep echo]

tcc is literally a joke

[vivid kraken]

basic yea

thats what i meant

[burnt pagoda]

that's frankly just wrong, there will likely be a lot of just standard attacks that you need to remember once and a lot of it is just position based anyways

[atomic lagoon]

well my point is it's a step in the right direction in comparison to the old one which made literally zero sense

[elfin pumice]

yeah, i worded it slightly wrong, i dont mean its a waste of time, i mean that you go into something sometimes expecting to get something, then have to do it again sometimes to the point of frustration

[dusty junco]

tcc just suffers from stationary boss syndrome and a lot of classes take brutal advantage of this

[deep echo]

tstack epoch:

[rancid bloom]

It can feel frustrating if you keep failing, but maybe that's an indicator that you need to approach a challenge at a different angle

[burnt pagoda]

unless the limited devtime is going to be spend on giving each different variation of melee mob(literally the same thing) a unique attack

[vivid kraken]

devs dont do attacks

ct can

[rancid bloom]

Hi

I make most of the new mob AIs

[burnt pagoda]

i kept failing bob's reincarnation cause i didn't do enough damage to get through the healing of third phase

[vivid kraken]

dps check

you sould get better gear

[rancid bloom]

I think that's more of an issue with the fact that the fight isn't updated

[vivid kraken]

that too

[wary cairn]

The old fights are mostly super outdated

[deep echo]

imo problem with hard buffing lots of mobs buffs for an eventual rework of ai or smth is thats its gonna take a long time

[dusty junco]

i mean with all of these just a reminder that consu exist to help boost for bosses and things and i dont view it as "you are weak" but rather an aid since ya know, it sthere for you
idk if ppl needed to hear it but since were talking bosses and difficulity i wanted to bring it up

[vivid kraken]

yeah it will

[deep echo]

and cci on li

[rancid bloom]

Mobs with the new stats but the old yml spell system can feel really unfair, because it highlights how (pardon my French) Absolutely Fucking Bullshit the old attack system was

[vivid kraken]

doesnt all need to happen at once though

[rancid bloom]

(yml spells being the old white particle abilities)

[burnt pagoda]

no(got my younger brother to kill third phase)

[vivid kraken]

i love heavy pull into heavy explosion

[wary cairn]

That should have stayed outdated tbh why did old outdated fights get overturned stats

[elfin pumice]

this is good advice for pretty straightforward games, but with the variety of builds and playstyles in wynn its sort of suggesting that you need to have like 50 different builds for everything in the game

[vivid kraken]

not really?

[deep echo]

i gotta love blade fury pulling a mob to me with heavy explosion and flamethrower!

[rancid bloom]

You don't a need different build, just a different approach

[deep echo]

and then i literally cannot get away

[elfin pumice]

im begging please explain what you mean by a different approach

[vivid kraken]

swap off weapon spell stops

[dusty junco]

even then this is a multiplayer game so you can bring a friend on a different spec to cover more bases and apply a different way to win

[burnt pagoda]

am i just huffing copium if i am hoping in the future all health regain on mobs will be preventable?

[vivid kraken]

probably

[deep echo]

nah i feel like actually doing damage also i will fall from the sky and that is a bad solution cci makes more sense

[rancid bloom]

Like, if you're approaching a boss with the intent of rushing it down, focusing on dealing damage to it and trying to kill it as fast as possible, and that isn't proving successful, try playing it slower

Updated bosses have windows for you to to punish them if you can evade their attacks

[vivid kraken]

swap off weapon and use hop to get further away and then swap back

ive done it before in li

[deep echo]

mummyboard and doctor would still be difficult with cci

[vivid kraken]

mummyboard is kinda simple

[deep echo]

and yet one of the strongest bosses in li (we gotta love heavy flamethrower)

[vivid kraken]

double heavy teleport into:
Heavy Flamethrower
Heavy Explosion
OR
Heavy Arrow Storm

[elfin pumice]

i would like if wynn was like this all the time, but it isnt every time, with some cases just sort of 3 shotting you with no warning, or charging at you and healing 7000 damage no matter if youre right against them or 30 blocks away

[dusty junco]

strongest depending on what you are playing*

[deep echo]

or you just yank the boss and get exploded straight in the face

[vivid kraken]

I play acrobat too and as long as its not heavy arrow storm i can go back to killing it 🤷

[rancid bloom]

With time it will be all like this, it just takes a lot of time to update a thousand+ mobs

[deep echo]

still thats a bad solution cci makes more sense and would benefit literally everything all classes

[elfin pumice]

then I feel like the game is heading in the right direction in that aspect

[rancid bloom]

If it's any consolation, every enemy in Fruma will be done with the new attack and ability system

All future content will be the level of polish we're aiming to update the game to

[dusty junco]

fruma leak guys real!!!!
that is sick tho to hear

[deep echo]

coming in 2027

[loud mist]

👆

[dusty junco]

hi tealy hows the other threads if your talking in them

[burnt pagoda]

will all enemies be looked at individually(dumb) or will you make general abilities and then copypaste it with different damage scalings(smart)

[polar nexus]

3-5 business days !!!

[loud mist]

❓

[dusty junco]

oh i thought you were making round slike earlier my mistake

https://tenor.com/view/cat-is-this-your-card-gif-8397347924124011725

[polar nexus]

tealy when are u going to add gambling loans and investing to the base game

[burnt pagoda]

there already is gambling

[loud mist]

would rather keep this thread on track

[elfin pumice]

also would like to reiterate again, this is purely feedback, im not trying to force a change or suggest how to fix it, im was just sharing what i think

[deep echo]

basically some stuff op some not i think yes

[wary cairn]

That's good to know for sure

[rigid matrix]

tbh I remember 1.20 getting a ton of hate lmao

[dusty junco]

real
leave the mob difficulity and just work on player strength is probably what should happen
it should still be hard but with balancing and upcoming things like content completion buffs i think a healthy medium will happen where casuals and tryhards can both be happy

[burnt pagoda]

people(me included) just love hating

[dusty junco]

wasnt it because shaman was busted on arrival or am i misremembering?

[loud mist]

wasnt there swathes of people saying they were gonna quit wynn and it'd die when gavel released with the new item system cause it made stuff so overcomplicated and unfun

[dusty junco]

yes

we love history repeating itself

[rigid matrix]

it was a delayed update, and a lot of people thought it didnt add enough for the delay

[dusty junco]

oh yeahhhh
since road to dern

[burnt pagoda]

i've guit at least 6 times since october 11 2013

[rigid matrix]

also people said the eye was too hard on release lol

[elfin pumice]

i think a big takeaway is that in most cases making things more difficult should be an optional thing, as it only makes it feels frustrating to older players who are used to the easier system, while only appealing to the top playerbase who already swear the game

[deep echo]

probably i didnt play wynn during that time i joined early 2021, but just because it seems like its just history repeating doesnt mean these complaints should be forgotten

[elfin pumice]

or have the difficulty in specific areas of the game, not everywhere

[rigid matrix]

tbh outside of like maybe raid bosses I dont think much of the game got really THAT much harder

[deep echo]

li became stupid

[vivid kraken]

worth noting that the "easier system" is you having high damage and none of the mobs being able to keep up because mobs werent balanced at the time

[deep echo]

qira became very VERY op

[loud mist]

thats fair, and true. but its still smthn to remember when you see people say that players are gonna quit because x or y

[rigid matrix]

oh well thats kinda just cuz Li is not finished imo

its using the old pre 2.1 spell system

with post 2.1 stats

[elfin pumice]

the problem with this is a lot of the game is raid bosses/bosses
for example a good chunk of bosses are comically difficult rn

[rigid matrix]

pre 2.1 mob spells are just dumb imo

[rigid matrix]

funny that if u go look at a lot of other threads people keep saying they are too easy

[deep echo]

why buff stuff if you know it will be strangely op and the solutions are in a long long time

[rigid matrix]

I keep getting told TNA and TCC are much easier than pre 2.1

[golden forge]

wynn 2 years ago is not "old wynn" 😭

[summer cave]

Personally, while I dislike the new item skillpoint changes narrowing build variety, I appreciate the difficult of the raids. makes them more exciting.

[rigid matrix]

idk I didnt do it

[deep echo]

pfinder tna failure rate is actually crazy

[summer cave]

TNA watched is the ultimate skill check

[deep echo]

like 50% of raids are failed i think its pretty difficult

[elfin pumice]

im saying in perspective to this post (1.20 vs 2.0) ofc its not old wynn

[loud mist]

im bracing myself for when annihilation lag gets better and people start getting wiped because its moving at regular speed

[rigid matrix]

we have the stats for how raids are failed and that isnt true

[golden forge]

you mean the rainbow ones? or other ones

cuz the rainbow ones LITERALLY increase build variety

[polar nexus]

what are the stats on tna failure rate?

[deep echo]

it feels like it from my experience also i mentioned pfinder specifically

[golden forge]

like that is the guaranteed outcome of a change like that

[summer cave]

Well, the more items you nerf the more narrow the pool becomes, i imagine

[rigid matrix]

im not sure I am allowed to share it but it is not close to 50%

[deep echo]

guild raids almost never fail bc guild people are usually more competant

[golden forge]

50%????????????? thats way too high

[deep echo]

its still pretty high in pfinder

[summer cave]

can you share if it's higher or lower than 50? 👀

[deep echo]

fr

[dusty junco]

man now I feel old lmao
next you gonna tell me ppl dont remember bashblocking or upper canceling, totem blocking, etc

[polar nexus]

its lower

[burnt pagoda]

may i ask how much details these have, player level, classes, skills, builds etc cause if it's carried by the top x% of people fighting to get leaderboard it might give a wrong idea

[elfin pumice]

i cant speak much on tna but (no offense) tcc was kinda just turned into a dmg sponge with some easy to dodge attacks

[rigid matrix]

much higher

[summer cave]

ah

[golden forge]

my guess it's no more than 15%. that's like 1 raid fail every 6 to 7 runs

[deep echo]

yeah 90% fail rate wooo!!!!

[golden forge]

garfield are oyu /j or /srs

[deep echo]

dont mean that as if its unbalanced

[summer cave]

Not surprising, no one knows how to dodge watched

[deep echo]

it is the hardest raid after all and it shows

[golden forge]

aint no way tna is failed over 50% of the time

[rigid matrix]

I mean tcc is just odd cuz so many people somhow find the attacks way too hard while others find it way too easy

[dusty junco]

TNA being "easy" is always due to being a ws centric raid that trivializes a lot of the boss
TCC is just staionary boss and easy picking sfor a lot of classes

while others struggle for tcc*

[summer cave]

Tna is easy when you get a full team who knows what they're doing and have the best builds

[rigid matrix]

also ye tcc being stationary doesn't help

[summer cave]

90% of the players aren't in this category

[deep echo]

every raid is easy when this happens

[summer cave]

Yeah, the people saying it's easy are the 10%

[vivid kraken]

Dawg

No way you just made it an "us vs them"

💀

[summer cave]

:)

[burnt pagoda]

i feel like 10% might even be exaggerated, purely based on feeling but i reckon wynn is rather bottomloaded in terms of players

[dusty junco]

i think tna is mostly fine where it is (skulls could maybe use work) but tcc needs some fine tuning to make a stationary 1 phase boss be hard and not as easily abusable by sweats and still a fordmidable challenge by casuals

[summer cave]

Made up %, but i imagine it's somewhat like that

[loud mist]

tcc is one of the easiest raids for me

[rigid matrix]

yea I am literally doing that rn

[burnt pagoda]

i think all people that are better than me should just be banned, much better game that way

[deep echo]

psure lbender is still bugged against (who knows when bugs fix)

[summer cave]

tcc is by far the quickest raid

[loud mist]

all the attacks are super readable and telegraphed

[dusty junco]

nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! love you

[summer cave]

tbh tcc is easier than grootslang

[deep echo]

its more fun

[summer cave]

but grootslang gives 30 emeralds, and tcc gives 9 le

[rigid matrix]

tbh I really shoulda just not listened to the community when beta released to live when there were like 10+ threads complaining tcc was too hard

[atomic lagoon]

every grootslang hammer room has failed without a healer

[burnt pagoda]

aren't we doing raids for aspects anyways, emerald are just a bonus

[rigid matrix]

cuz now everyone is telling me to basically undo all the changes made then

[deep echo]

this was before trapstack was found

[vivid kraken]

gg

[summer cave]

yeahhh, that's why im sad when the good aspects are in grootslang

[dusty junco]

depends who you are raids still pay out nicely

[loud mist]

ignore what people say!!!!!

[summer cave]

no bonus emeralds for winning 😔

[vivid kraken]

ruins all your credibility

[loud mist]

i am going to buff annihilation again! i dont care!!!

[polar nexus]

i love sub20 tcc!

[summer cave]

I didn't know i had any :O

[vivid kraken]

i will not be listening to you when it comes to something being good or bad in the future

[celest iris]

Please do 🙏

[shut sphinx]

only true warrior fans know that warrior was already good pre 2.0 smh

[celest iris]

Give it 20 gorkillion ehp.

[vivid kraken]

you already did

[dusty junco]

building cred is good so staff knows you know your shit and have valuable feedback :)

[rigid matrix]

facts facts

been warrior main sense 2015

[burnt pagoda]

no offense but betas are rather ass anyways, only people literally invested in the game will not give a proper picture of the actual playerbase

[vivid kraken]

what

[rigid matrix]

I mean when beta released to live

[summer cave]

Anyway game is in good state imo, still waiting for grootslang raid reward scaling though :p

[rigid matrix]

as in all the public people got to play it for the first time

and said it was WAYY TOO HARD

[golden forge]

idk if its bc im on a small laptop screen but it's impossible to see when the meteors spawn. is there another telegraph that im missing? cuz if i could see above the colossus's head, they'd be easy to avoid

[rigid matrix]

the sword swings attack TOO FAST! the big swing was "undodable on some classes" the blue fire was TOO FAST

[golden forge]

but since i cant, i almost always get hit (almost never enough to kill outright, but an unlucky combo with any other attack means death)

[vivid kraken]

yeah annihilation holds its right hand up to signify meteors actually

(its right your left)

[golden forge]

i ahte you

[vivid kraken]

[summer cave]

well it does sound like class specific issues

[burnt pagoda]

ngl i misread that message, oughtta go sleep soon but my beta point still stands for me

[rigid matrix]

its not lol

people were just being dumb

and saying shaman or archer cant dodge the red floor swing

they can

[summer cave]

I prefer tanking it with shaman ;D

[rigid matrix]

but frankly noobs lol kept telling me they cant

[polar nexus]

were ppl not playing lb at that point? From my experience i can just face tank the sword thats meant to 1 shot (0 agi)

[golden forge]

tbh i didnt even know the floor going red was a telegraph for the swing until someone said something, cuz it happens so much before the swing and takes so long after the swing to go back to blue that i (somehow) didn't notice the connection

[summer cave]

It's kinda wild that my standard laby can tank the red tcc hit

[golden forge]

so yes, players are dumb :3

[rigid matrix]

yea tbh some of the issues straight up are class balance

and tcc being the only stationary raid boss is more effected by it

then the moving ones

[summer cave]

tcc needs invincibility phases

[rigid matrix]

no

[polar nexus]

pls no

[loud mist]

again!!!

[vivid kraken]

YES!

do it AGAIN

[summer cave]

but all the others have it! and they move!

[golden forge]

if ur being serious never talk about game balance again

[deep echo]

this thread was created because classes are not balanced at all

[rigid matrix]

no

[golden forge]

permabanned from giving your opinion on boss design

[celest iris]

Give it 20 gorillion health please.

[summer cave]

1984

[polar nexus]

fr buff everything thats not lb and trapper

[burnt pagoda]

i think we should get a dodge roll and just make it into wynnsouls

[celest iris]

Make it impossible.

[loud mist]

the big meteors are telegraphed when it laughs and then points its finger

[golden forge]

1986

[summer cave]

1987

[rigid matrix]

next person to say tcc needs an invincibility phases will be punished >:( FINAL WARNING 😡

[elfin pumice]

this thread was created partly for that, and the forced (somewhat) playstyles for the sole reason that they make the game more playable

[golden forge]

is this another anni joke

[burnt pagoda]

the bite?!?

[summer cave]

:fazbear:

[deep echo]

yes ^

[burnt pagoda]

tcc needs a phase of invulnerability

[loud mist]

🤨

[rigid matrix]

tbh I do think a lot of the problems with tcc are that if u go in knowing what u are doing it just becomes far to easy, the learning curve is too flat

[deep echo]

is pfinder ok (dont question why im dead)

[rigid matrix]

which is why I think guild raid tcc would help with some issues

making it harder for the peopel that want the hard one

while not pissing off noobs

[golden forge]

anni's healers imo are the perfect way to slow down a fight. they aren't a stupid arbitrary invincibility like tna's (3 times is actually insane) and instead make the player change their focus off of the boss

[deep echo]

this is related tp the post

[burnt pagoda]

(the one time i tried tcc i just got booted at the start of each room and my party failed on third)

[rigid matrix]

the optional difficulty that op talks about

[summer cave]

fr tho tcc is still the most speedrunnable boss cuz of stationary and not invincible... not that i'm complaining but half my guild only wants to do tcc due to it being fastest and easiest

[golden forge]

tcc's periodites or whatever aren't doing the same cuz they die to the splash dmg most classes deal (and just dont take that long to kill generally)

[elfin pumice]

accessibility (having the base game be easier) is good for everyone due to allowing more unique builds while also having the option to run more powerful standard builds to beat the hard stuff

[summer cave]

I wish nol was more popular

[elfin pumice]

which is my main complaint abt the difficulty (it being forced)

[deep echo]

i wish acro was stronger

[summer cave]

just run glass dummy

(that was a joke do what you want)

[rigid matrix]

use hacks

[summer cave]

download more ram

[deep echo]

acro is actually underpowered

[summer cave]

compared to what

[rigid matrix]

snackro

[deep echo]

other classes

[rigid matrix]

cuz i eat him

[summer cave]

snackro got the survivability others dont

[vivid kraken]

boy lumi do i have the twitch clip for you

i will dm you

[golden forge]

does tcc also point and laugh or is that just anni

[deep echo]

other classes within the wynncraft

[golden forge]

i dont recall tcc doing those but maybe i just never noticed
(how can tcc laugh with no mouth)

[elfin pumice]

also, somewhat off topic, but the game has a sustain issue with shaman and mage being the only classes to self sustain at a base level

[rigid matrix]

tcc new attack, he pulls your pants down (takes off your leggings)

[summer cave]

YES

[deep echo]

like all of shaman warrior mage archer (oh thats every class) and hmelee shade are stronger

[golden forge]

licks his thumb and shoves it in your ear

[summer cave]

Tcc but he randomly reduces your skill points so your clothes fall off

[elfin pumice]

the only reason mage (lightbender) is so good is because you can heal yourself without having to use weird janky builds

[polar nexus]

if tcc hits u with sword u drop ur weapon(u cant pick it back up off the clouds)

[rigid matrix]

tcc but he is the sound demon

[vivid kraken]

there you go lumi

enjoy

[summer cave]

/itemlock

[loud mist]

wait were you talking about tcc meteors

[summer cave]

countered :)

[rigid matrix]

tcc hits you and you get teleported out of bounds, mods get alerted, and u get banned

[vivid kraken]

so real

[loud mist]

lmao i thoguht you meant annihilation. tcc bumps its arms behind it and the meteors fly out from behind its head before coming towards you, theres also sound cues

[golden forge]

yes

shadow made a joke by answering about anni 😔

[summer cave]

Tcc dance rave attack where it throws its arms in the air and starts dancing

[loud mist]

smh shadow making jokes when players need help very disappointing

[golden forge]

hmm, what are the sound queues? i usually listen but havent noticed anything unique

[deep echo]

pls buff acro this is now the buff assassin thread

[golden forge]

very.... 😔 light his house on fire now

[vivid kraken]

i hate the playerbase!!!1!!!!!1

[summer cave]

back in my day it was "buff shadestepper"

[deep echo]

hmelee shade op

[loud mist]

looks like ravager, ender dragon hurt, wither shoot, and about a trillion others @rigid matrix smh so many fucking weirdass noises

[polar nexus]

dps and ehp?

[deep echo]

it is uh 30x cheaper (hana is 30, dawnbreak is 1) and stronger

[elfin pumice]

(annie moves dont really work well with showing what they do, with 9 other players spamming spells in your face)

[deep echo]

as acro main

[loud mist]

ah yes i could tell that attack was on its way once my headphones detected block.grindstone.use

[golden forge]

for meteor specifically? it's all those at once? 😭

[rigid matrix]

wtf was I supposed to do

its a long ass animation and needs sounds

[golden forge]

gotta play with captions now smfh

[vivid kraken]

🗣️ 🔥

[rigid matrix]

just look at the animation ong

I can play tcc with sounds off

[summer cave]

tcc swinging the sword at the left platform but hitting the right anyway

[deep echo]

big ehp because etf, and quakes reach 2m every 15s, and you get 1.3m quakes every 5s (very stronger)

[summer cave]

2m every 15s isn't super impressive

[deep echo]

think morew

[elfin pumice]

plus 1.3m every 5

[deep echo]

1.5m every 4s i forgot to mention shade mythic

1.3-1.5m is very strong for every 4s

[polar nexus]

isnt that terrible? lb ur getting same dps and if u actually want dmg u have trapper?

[deep echo]

it easily soloes tcc

[elfin pumice]

assassin is undertuned

[deep echo]

ok it sounds bad but in practice its way too op

[summer cave]

ct is gonna shoot trapper down one day i'll bet

[elfin pumice]

in general not hmelee dont come at me

[summer cave]

no pun intended

[deep echo]

it is also very tanky because clones

[polar nexus]

def atleast trapstacking xd

[deep echo]

and very easily soloes tcc pretty fast

[summer cave]

It's ok we'll all be switching back to the usual tierstack epoch

[deep echo]

lbender gets 100-150k dps

[polar nexus]

trance is 300k

[deep echo]

is it? its 200k

[shut sphinx]

trance is also 30stx

[polar nexus]

i get 250k with mid build

[shut sphinx]

inferno is like what 10 time less?

[deep echo]

animosity is better and is also 13 emerald blocks

[shut sphinx]

forgot, i havent seen too many animosity users, mostly infernal

[deep echo]

ok so 1.2m damage in 4s, which is less than hmelee (not including 35k per melee)

on like builds no one uses

[elfin pumice]

i think imma sign off for tonight, basically i love this game but i feel like the direction its going is bad with the way theyre balancing it
peace out

[deep echo]

ct thinks its all fine apparently

[summer cave]

the news that tna failure rate was much higher than 50% was kinda amusing

[polar nexus]

no way he wasnt joking around tho

[azure citrus]

I dislike that often I log on, look at my underleveled gear, have no way to improve it (better gear costs several times what I have total), get shredded by a common mob, realize there's no way I'm fighting bosses or minibosses like this, then either leave or start a new class for a little bit

[loud mist]

🤨

[polar nexus]

open a chest? do a quest?

[loud mist]

i think you misunderstood.

[vivid kraken]

higher than 50 being higher than 50% win rate

[summer cave]

Oh, was it the opposite?

[loud mist]

yeah

[polar nexus]

oh yea it should be atleast 80% win rate theres so many guild raids

[summer cave]

tbh i still expected closer to 50%

[wary cairn]

Devs have to do that

At least it will last

[deep echo]

devs pls buff acro

[azure citrus]

yeah, let me just do a quest where I either get wrecked by mobs while I travel to the locations, or get wrecked by a boss before I get the rewards

[summer cave]

one of my level 30 friends got one shot by a world event boss in detlas

[azure citrus]

how many quests can you think of give good exp and dont require you to be exposed to combat

[rigid matrix]

other way around

the win rate is much higher than 50%

[summer cave]

yee tealy clarified

[vivid kraken]

a lot actually

[summer cave]

surprises me considering how many people die to first phase of watched

[rigid matrix]

thoe this might be skewed by people who are skilled playing raids more? idk I dont have more data than that

[summer cave]

generally there's always at least 1 person who can carry and solo

Tna actually gets easier with less people, because less skulls and void wormies

[rigid matrix]

thoe the boss in nameless

is where most people die

by far

[summer cave]

fr, the challenges aren't too bad

[rigid matrix]

that is intentional

the rooms arnt really meant to be super duper hard

unlike the boss

[summer cave]

those gobbs though

[golden forge]

oh thank god

[sand latch]

I kep seeing this argument but I don't understand why it's bad to want to have your brain turned off while playing a game.

[golden forge]

gobb 😢

[rigid matrix]

love the gobb

[golden forge]

also me when i get one shot on plat room (have zero idea what killed me)

[rigid matrix]

simple as

the plat room?

[summer cave]

gobbs surely have higher body count than greg

[golden forge]

can't even see the heart of darknesses from on top of the platform

[leaden quail]

how bad is wynncraft player retention?

[rigid matrix]

it has glow

doesnt it?

am i crazy

[golden forge]

if you ignore level anything below lv 20, it's probably higher than most

[summer cave]

It does glow yeah

[golden forge]

no, only the void holes do

[summer cave]

So do the void holes i believe-

[rigid matrix]

WHAT

[sand latch]

also i gotta say it's not good to have raids that take multiple tries to be able to complete since it only makes aspect gridning EVEN WORSE

[summer cave]

they both glow

[leaden quail]

the game doesnt get easier after lvl 20 though

[golden forge]

lumi remove 10 second cooldown in #1019649786799996980 i hate this so much it doesnt do anything constructive, it was so buch better in #beta_feedback when there was no CD

[leaden quail]

it just makes less sense

[unique burrow]

some mythic aspects are just extra dmg numbers, i wish they were something more interesting

[golden forge]

nothing to do with game being easy

[azure citrus]

or shorten to 3s or something

[rigid matrix]

that was added to CF to try and stop flame wars

I cant remove it

[golden forge]

it's just that people will look up fun servers, try wynn, play for an hour or two, and then never play again. and that happens a TON

[leaden quail]

yeah i said the opposite

[rigid matrix]

it doesnt effect me cuz im cool :)

[summer cave]

hax

[golden forge]

it has nothing to do with the game being easy or hard

[golden forge]

those happen anyway AND happen in normal chats

[leaden quail]

finding out that you do no damage and dont understand how to build isnt hard?

[azure citrus]

I'd like react but no perms

edit: ehh screw it, ill do it here...

[rigid matrix]

NU UH THEY DONT HAPPEN! >:( ur dumb

[summer cave]

there is no war in constructive feedback

[leaden quail]

new player try to understand wynncraft ability tree challenge

[azure citrus]

there is no war in constructive feedback

[rancid bloom]

not as fun

& its not the game we want to make.

[sand latch]

for you. I had a blast

[unique burrow]

falling asleep for 60 challenges after getting equillibrium

[azure citrus]

suggestion: easy mode

that would fix this problem and a few others

[summer cave]

ewww

I can't even begin to imagine the balancing nightmare of adding an easy mode

[deep echo]

you can still definitely turn ur brain off (tstack epoch is still op as always)

[rancid bloom]

❌

[azure citrus]

make easy mode just stats based, you have 20% more health and do 20% more damage or stuff like that. maybe 2x or 3x the skill points per level. something that cant change how the game is played besides the easier part. and just dont let people do stuff together if not everyone is on easy or normal at the same time.

the only part that could go wrong is the rewards from events, but thats still pretty easy to fix

[summer cave]

that'd separate raiders and co-op content quite badly

[soft sapphire]

this is funny bc I vividly remember everyone complaining about how terrible warrior was in 1.20

ok like. not everyone it was mostly ingo and other warrior diehards

[azure citrus]

Warrior and assassin swapped when spellbound dropped

[shut sphinx]

wack

[soft sapphire]

[shut sphinx]

i felt like it was really good with hero
i dont die
but the mobs do

[soft sapphire]

I'm still sad that spellbound dropped before I could find the motivation to try uppersurf in 1.20

every other day I go to sleep and wonder if uppersurf was secretly op in 1.20 and no one noticed

yet we will never know because 1.20 spells have been wiped off the face of the earth

[shut sphinx]

eeeeh, it's impractical imo, better to upper cancel or just upper bash back then

there's also cci mobs which makes dpsing with warrior easier back then

[soft sapphire]

back in the old days when idol was -3 to -13

[shut sphinx]

100% dmg reduc agility my beloved

[minor junco]

I think an old uppercut mob spell would be cool

[shut sphinx]

multihit was literally a minor inconvenience for me

[soft sapphire]

legacy warrior spells is another one of those things that got changed for really weird and baffling reasons

[minor junco]

to me the old spells felt like they had far more impact on use

[soft sapphire]

the issue with uppercut was that the hitbox was deceptive and didn't line up with the particles at all

the issue with bash was that it was slightly delayed so it felt a little clunky to use

the """fix""" that 2.0 implemented was nerfing the uppercut hitbox into near oblivion by making it line up with the particles instead of making the particles line up with uppercut 😂 😂 😂

[dusty junco]

I see old warrior spell talk i smile

[soft sapphire]

and they made bash even more spread out and effectively removed the extra radius on the final hit by moving it down to massive bash

[minor junco]

marking enemies before a rupture or an instant explosion in front of you that shook the ground

the new ones are cool but not as to me

[soft sapphire]

which is a node that (rightfully) no one cares about

[minor junco]

it’s definitely useful but I don’t think it’s usually got to be got for it specifically
kind of that gateway to full fallen

[soft sapphire]

for the record, this is what old warrior spells looked like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtkcddlrOPM

the old uppercut particles were kind of hard to notice + they did not represent the conical hitbox of uppercut at all + they were like 3 blocks too short + they did not track onto mobs at all

the way that wynn decided to fix this in 2.0 was basically by making uppercut match the horrible hitbox and calling it a day 😂

ok tbf they added half moon swipe and whirlwind to completely rework uppercut hitbox but it still baffles me to this day that half moon swipe isn't default uppercut at this point

[minor junco]

never noticed that at all
I guess one thing I like is that it doesn’t make people upset to let the mob getting hit get launched ten miles into the air anymore

[random gyro]

Tbh I feel like the IM changes are starting to feel quite tiring, and I don't say this bc I dislike what they are doing, I'm actually in favor of most nerfs they cooked recently, but personally starting to feel a little discouraged by having to change some minor stuff regularly in the build instead of playing the game (or helping people to fix something).
Also, it's pretty clear to me that some players from my guild who plays the game more casually are feeling this way much more to the point of playing and logging way less or simply stopping completely, and I'm not talking about new people who join the game and quit soon after, but people who used to play the game regularly, they just find it quite underwhelming to have their builds shifted weekly (yes, it happened lol), or even not feel comfortable about grinding for X good build because it's "possibly getting hard nerfed in the future", what in fact is true many times.
Imo those changes should happen in bulk monthly at least (unless truly necessary)

[rancid bloom]

i cannot say much on that cause im not an IM

[wary cairn]

this is literally me tbh

i spent so long grinding for bashscream and it got gutted overnight, basically wasted my time

[random gyro]

Bashscream what?

Hero or collapse

[wary cairn]

Hero

[random gyro]

This one still fine at least

[wary cairn]

I'd argue against it tbh

[alpine smelt]

Nerf archer, buff LI and raid mobs

[deep echo]

what???? nerf li nerf archer buff assassin is the correct thing

[alpine smelt]

Archer has too much ehp

[deep echo]

why buff li

[alpine smelt]

Must buff mobs

[deep echo]

li is so stupid

[alpine smelt]

Keep buffing them and nerf everything else

Mythic prices

Nerf max skill points to 25

[shut sphinx]

li when 5mil health doctor

[alpine smelt]

Gameplay truly meant to "turn your brain on"

(You are going to get statchecked by fodder mobs)

[queen niche]

yeah uppercut cancelling was really fun

it required a bit of practice in skill and ping doesnt matter since its just the timing

[manic slate]

Well, if 50% of raids are failures and the stats say that tna doesnt fail 50% of the time, maybe you’re the problem lmao

[deep echo]

pfinder

mentioned pfinder specifically

[manic slate]

Yeah the only common denominator in those raids is you

You will end up getting good and bad teammates

[deep echo]

dumb argument aint my fault that my teammates decided to not do what the room says to do

[manic slate]

Thats like being a silver in cs then saying “damn I always lose cuz of my teammates”

[deep echo]

fun fact: if 3 people die in tna in normal rooms you fail the raid! hope this helps

[manic slate]

Ask a good raider if they fail tna 50% of the time xd

[deep echo]

they do guild raids. guild raids are like impossible to fail

[manic slate]

Then why dont you do guild raids if you’re whining about pf .-.

[deep echo]

cuz no ones online bruh

[manic slate]

Then move to a better guild?

[deep echo]

nah lxa peak guild

[manic slate]

Idk it seems weird ur whining about this problem and doing nothing yourself to fix it

[deep echo]

you do realize you cant carry ur entire team in tree room on your back

if they 3 die you fail

[manic slate]

#1289387579980120085 message

Peak guild ≠ no one online

[manic slate]

Okay? No chance 50% of the time all 3 ppl die in tree

[deep echo]

45%

[deep echo]

damn can you really not understand if everyone dies you fail is it that hard??

[manic slate]

3 ppl die in the raid probs like 20% of the time in tna

Thats generous even lmao

[wary cairn]

This is an ignorant way to see the problem when you don't consider all the factors about Wynn raids rn

[modern crystal]

Real

This like any other situation in any other cooperative game either you find teammates or you random queue and adapt

[deep echo]

how tf do benders keep dying in tree room rlr rlr rlr

[polar nexus]

tbf many ppl are in guilds with friends and not just for meta

[golden forge]

overwatch mindset

[golden forge]

goddamnit beat me to it

[azure citrus]

What if im a silver/gold in overwatch and it really is my teammates' fault most of the time

[manic slate]

Then choose

Be with your friends who arent good at raiding or be in a big guild with good raiders

Cant have everything you want