Improving Wynncraft’s new player experience

[proud parcel]

This has been quite a long discussion in another thread, and im making this one to consolidate it and try to keep the discussion a lot cleaner. but basically, wynncraft’s new player experience is not the greatest. there is no in-game explanation for how most ID’s work, and theres nothing to teach players how to make a solid build, despite mythics and most good items being very easy to access now. currently the game is way too reliant on having players join the discord or a guild and ask other players how to do all of these things, when it should be in the game itself. i’m currently brainstorming ways to alleviate this issue that is more than just having a written guide somewhere in game. ill go into some of the suggestions in the thread below

@late moon

my current idea is this:

at the very beginning of the game, have players select between 4 playstyles, lets say u have like melee, tanky, spell spam, and pure dmg. itd then give u an optional mini quest and a recommended build according to that playstyle. the quest would be to go thru some caves in the starting area, where players are then guaranteed the items that are used in this recommended early game build. could be a complicated solution, but would at least get players used to matching certain ID’s to certain playstyles, and teach players that exploring caves gets u loot.

[late moon]

The game should teach you the fundamentals at the very least. Guilds and community should teach you how to minmax, not teach you the very basic fundamental principles of the game.

1.) Spell damage scales inversely with attack speed so that damages aren't just objectively stronger on Super Slow attack speed weapons
2.) Intelligence and defense are disproportionately stronger as you get far more mileage with INT and DEF than you do with the other 3 skill points
3.) Not every legendary is good for your intended playstyle. You need to combine IDs that function well together like Spell dmg and Mana regen or mana steal
4.) Mana Steal/Life Steal procs PER enemy, and thunder powder special procs per enemy
5.) Certain archetypes are quite literally unviable at very low level, and other archetypes are unviable at very high level

etc etc etc. There's a LOT of fundamentals about the game that just isn't communicated to you.

[rich silo]

<@&268142859327242242> this post is a MASSIVE suggestion

[fresh kite]

i think that it could be phrased better so that it doesnt come off as a game suggestion

also spells are very easy to understand if you just read the ability description

[late moon]

It's a massive critique of the game's structure, and warrants a massive suggestion about the game's structure (or at least the way it teaches players t oplay)

[late moon]

Yes they are. But new players are not going to understand why spell shade is good, why trapper bolt slinger is strong, why battlemonk fallen is powerful, etc etc.

They don't have the intimate knowledge of the game and how the classes interact with each other that we do. It's far far easier for us to judge new players and say "how can you not realize this?" when we had the luxury of multiple years to learn

[fierce ember]

i think the biggest problem in this aspect is the ids, like i didn’t learn how exploding worked until like 2 weeks ago lol

i think generally speaking the abilities are explained well tho

[fresh kite]

having the game hold your hand with what is/isnt good isnt really a great game design imo, the player should discover for themselves what archetypes are good with what types of content etc

[fierce ember]

like you may not understand why exactly an ability is cracked, but you know what it does

[late moon]

It's not holding your hand, it's teaching you fundamental mechanics. I went till lvl 85 and was using bismuthinite because I thought bigger number meant more damage, because that's LITERALLY the intuitive solution for what weapon is strongest

[zealous peak]

With the new buffs, if a player walks in blind I don't think they'll even be able to get past lvl 70 tbh

I think at the bare minimum, stuff like damage calcs should be explained

[fierce ember]

i agree with the attack scaling tho that’s confusing. also did they change it from “200% of your dps” to “200% dmg”

[late moon]

My issue isn't with lack of explanation of spells, it's lack of explanation for how fundamental mechanics of the game work.

You don't half-ass teaching someone chess by giving them half the rulebook and saying "learn the rest the hard way". You tell them ALL the rules, and let them build upwards creatively from a strong foundation. a GOOD game teaches you fundamentals and gives you room to creatively express yourself

[formal ice]

an early level guide most likely wont teach ppl how to make endgame mythic builds that actually do damage

[fierce ember]

what exactly do you mean by fundamental game mechanics? i’m trying to understand your argument more

[fierce ember]

myb ig i was gaslighting myself lol

[formal ice]

it would be more useful to give them a build discord that tells them what items they need to put together

[serene beacon]

maybe introduce them to female npcs earlier to invigorate them?

[ripe pilot]

stuff could be discoverable and explained ingame more often, honestly (libraries are cool for that)

[late moon]

This is better, yeah, I'm positive that they specifically added this because of the critique I'm mentioning now, but even within the past few weeks I had to tell every single new player I met that bigger damage base does not actually mean stronger spells

[fresh kite]

thats kind of a reading comprehension thing but i do agree there could be a better job at explaining other things like less intuitive ids like mana steal life steal stealing exploding etc

the thing is the large walls of text like the old powder manuals are just ignored entirely for the most part

(by the general playerbase)

[clever garden]

good idea for a youtuber video

[late moon]

They are, which is why Sandra suggested a cave or interactive version of doing stuff. elemental exercise has a pretty good way of doing it actually, cause you can literally use it yourself and see

[late moon]

honestly yeah

[fresh kite]

i agree with this part but i disagree with the point you made about like "why spell shade is good, why trapper bolt slinger is strong, why battlemonk fallen is powerful, etc" because you shouldnt force specific playstyles on people when the ability tree is supposed to let you freely express your playstyle

(also crazy how this isnt just a "make this do that" more of a "the game could do a better job explaining certain game mechanics")

[late moon]

Stuff like mana steal and life steal, and how it procs per enemy/with powder specials, and other stuff the community already knows as a fundamental base.

Like how INT and DEF are the only stats that matter early game for survivability and damage (would you rather take 15% dmg bonus with higher STR or cast 50% more spells with higher INT).

There's other things I just can't think of rn, but i'm always surprised by what information new players are lacking. /itemlock is another one of those things, but that's not combat relevant

[late moon]

That's fair. The community can teach you about how specific playstyles are strong because they know the classes more intimately, I just think that newer players should be given a stronger base. Cause rn it's entirely

"Veterans help you make a build or else you're shit out of luck"

[fresh kite]

and about whether or not this is a suggestion i think that its within an acceptable range where you can have a discussion without straight up suggesting things be added but if the topic changes later on i cant guarentee anything from other mods

[proud parcel]

yeah i very much intended this thread to get the discussion going about how the game currently does not give any explanation for several vital mechanics in the game, and i think i speak for a lot of wynncraft players when i say i had no idea how most builds and IDs worked until i joined my first guild. a game should not be reliant on whether or not its players want to join the discord in order for those players to learn how to play the game

[fresh kite]

also i know euouae is working on a guide to help newer players understand fundamentals of building/ability tree but its still wip i think

[rich silo]

well okay jst making sure

[proud parcel]

guides like this are always good. i still do think its a good idea to work on putting that guidance into the game as something that players can get a feel for and experience themselves, rather than something they have to read outside of the game.

[valid yew]

You see, it would be reading comprehension

If there was anything to read

But rn the game tells you nothing, explaining the absolute basics of how an MMO works is not handholding

[fresh kite]

here that it mentions dps in both the spell and the weapon for you to make the connection although i do agree it could be said somewhere else to make it more clear

[rich silo]

wynncraft suck at explaining stuff but first id rather quests be made more understandable

i always have to go to some stupid wiki or video to find out how to do early-mid game quests

[clever garden]

use layers upon layers of note blocks to replicate voices of wynn

next bandwidth patch

[hexed terrace]

I could not agree with this more as someone who has been trying to get my friend into the game, I feel like I have to go over so many things that the game doesn't teach you at all, it's nuts. Building is extremely subjective and there are so many items that I get teaching you which items to use is not a good option, but at least explain skill points and more impactful stats like damages and mana and health sustain. I see an insane amount of people around who just wear thrown together gear that does nothing for them sometimes even when the stats do match, but again that solution would be way too complex. I also know people are supposed to get pieces of the morph set throughout the game, but I feel like people throw the items out as they progress because they don't know what the set does or even what it is at all.

[hexed terrace]

why aren't suggestions in the discord anyway? the forums are pretty out dated and the discord is a lot more convenient for sure

[fresh kite]

idk

i dont normally do stuff in this channel thingy

[sullen crag]

Henlo allow me to be the leading figure of this movement from years of built up pent-up rage from the millions of players who are unaware of essential game mechanics and content that are perfectly reasonable to miss given the game’s current state

(Heyhey I am barging in I have been more outspoken about this than literally everyone else in this Discord server)

(Mostly because a concerning amount of people assume that new players can think the same as they are which leads to the failure of putting themselves in the shoes of said players)

(Probably idk I could be very wrong and all the times I’ve seen new players struggling was a hallucination)

Sorry for being slightly salty about this I don’t usually act this way for most topics but jeez lousise

[sullen crag]

brainstorming ways to alleviate this issue
IDEAS, you say?

[sullen crag]

(Okay this isn’t relevant to this thread’s topic but I just wanted to point out something funny)

if you just read the ability description
I think I found the problem

[sullen crag]

Anyways I’m a bit busy at the moment but I’ll comment on (nearly) every message later and share my thoughts and opinions on certain pieces because I have a lot to say regarding this

[proud parcel]

i would fire react every msg of urs if my acct was still linked

[sullen crag]

What if the message contained something you don’t agree with though

[proud parcel]

i would probably not fire react it then

but yeah like this has gotten to be a huge issue for me too. ive come back to this game after getting rlly into a bunch of other games and becoming quite obsessed with game balance so now im just like MUST MAKE WYNNCRAFT GOOD

jus makes me sad to think of how many ppl mustve quit this game before realizing its full potential simply because stuff isnt explained well enough ingame and they maybe didnt want to join the discord

[sullen crag]

Eye of the Storm was unironically a good quest and Naragath had massive potential as the entity he was

[proud parcel]

cuz honestly imo making wynncraft builds is rlly fun like i enjoy it more than making destiny builds, and i think anyone who joins this server should have the opportunity to get into them

[rich silo]

yeah i sorry but i dont think wyncraft wants to u try and make the game better

[proud parcel]

i havent played it in like 5 years i am so neutral to thsi

[sullen crag]

Lol

[rich silo]

they just want u to be sheep and compliment them

baa baa

[proud parcel]

id try not to have a doomer mindset like that. when i care abt a game i advocate all i can for stuff i know can make it better

a game truly dies when its playerbase becomes apathetic

[sullen crag]

Wynncraft good
Haipickle bed

[rich silo]

hav you read the suggestions

its just ppl try and make compliments into small suggestion

[sullen crag]

Wdym

[rich silo]

what i mean

they ct dont care about us

cause ct is ct we not ct

[proud parcel]

i would very much like to keep the thread focused on the topic in the title i dont think a conversation like that has its place here

[rich silo]

ok

[proud parcel]

anyways purpleemerald i await ur analysis on everything thts been said here 👍

[rich silo]

it too much

too hard for devs

[late moon]

Bro has actual brain damage

[late moon]

"It's too hard for the devs 🤓"

Bro they're literally almost entirely comprised of volunteers

[ebon pollen]

Do you have any examples of other MMO RPGs with a system similar to what you're imagining?

I'm just curious because I don't remember having ever seen something like it

[rich silo]

okay

well how bout u ask dev then?

u just champion rank u not special man,,,

[proud parcel]

its not too similar, but destiny recently added a feature where u can go up to one of the main npcs and request a starter build, and it’ll automatically equip it all for you. obviously for wynncraft youd need a variation of this that actually teaches the player how and why that build works, but either way, i suppose its not uncommon for mmos to have systems in place to give newer players a bit of a boost when it comes to getting them on the same level as experienced players

[hexed terrace]

if no other game has a system like evil death reaper of darkness is proposing they should

[proud parcel]

please genuinely stop commenting on my thread. i want to work towards solutions that can improve the game and you are not contributing anything to that.

[proud parcel]

exactly

[hexed terrace]

thank you edrod

[rich silo]

sure man. he was talking to me though ask him same thing

[proud parcel]

youre welcome evil death rob of darkness

[fresh kite]

yeah I mean surprised pikachu face when you don't fully read the ability description and turns out you don't understand how the spell works

[clever garden]

Ctrl + B

[hexed terrace]

🤪

[toxic gust]

yk the tooltips have displayed dps this way since 2.0 release right

[late moon]

That's great, no I didn't know

But there's still so many players I've seen who think bigger base = more damage

@toxic gust do you know how difficult would this be? Cause I don't know if this is a simple check or a whole new implementation of something in the code #1282840100350201907 message

[toxic gust]

i dont know

thats why i didnt respond

for the main post's point i do think there are some things the game could teach better, but im not sure what a good solution would be

[sullen crag]

(I haven’t read whatever argument you guys were having but I just wanted to note that Devs are probably the only Wynn staff members who are actually paid)

(Unless you also count that as volunteering in which case)

[frosty harness]

And thats where a olinus guide npc would spawn in every major city

[frosty harness]

Have a job > get called volunteer

[hexed terrace]

the base dps includes spell conversion I'm p sure

so bigger avg dps does mean bigger damage right?

(idk if I corrected you or proved your point LMAO)

unless you're taking into account different classes and abilities/ability upgrades

[fresh kite]

relevant spell damage info

[supple yacht]

I've been petitioning to have an ID glossary in someplace official for a while now, and in fact brought it up again just a few days ago.

Some of this is just...reading comprehension? Like...people misunderstanding damage versus DPS, that isn't really something we can teach without physically holding the player's hands and explaining it to them like a kindergartener, but IDs?

Who the hell knows the mechanics of Thorns and Reflection without having been told?
Who understands Life Steal and Mana Steal being measured as X/3s and how it ties to attack speed without having an explanation given?
Who can guess what Explosion does until it happens, or how it deals its damage?
Who can understand why Attack Tiers don't go above Super Fast or below Super Slow even if you have enough tier IDs to go past those thresholds without being expressly told about it?
Who understands that Healing Efficiency only affects healing abilities rather than health-restoring IDs just by taking one look at it?
Who knows about the Loot Bonus softcap effects without looking up the forum post where it was revealed?
Would you assume that Knockback only affects melees at first blush?
Could a newbie tell me the difference between % and raw effects of any kind offhand?

I don't know if it'd be best put on the wiki, or on the main website, or ingame, or wherever or all of the previous, but a glossary of ID mechanics is something that's been sorely needed for ages.

[summer geode]

the *'s on rolls are also very confusing when you first start

[hexed terrace]

When I first started i thought the *s for whatever reason meant that those stats on the item would get better if you rerolled it

[ebon pollen]

you try that once and learn that it doesnt

and eventually you figure it out

[high lance]

teaching players about complicated building probably isn’t the best idea

when you realize the new target audience has no attention span

and only lives for tiktoks and whatever

[pure cipher]

Honestly, I would like to see some more quests that teach you how to profession stuff and craft stuff. There's quest where it's like: "get this tool to farm this thing and give it to me" but doesn't explain the use of farming this stuff as you give it all to the person (like the ragni chef or sailor guy from underwater.) I know professions and crafting are more side content, but at least it would be nice to see them given some early game attention to pique players interest.

Of course the state of such content is unfortinate.

[chilly apex]

I feel like the elemental mastery quest should dive into purpose of ids as well

like RoL 3 style dialogue that explains the purpose of every ID

and then you get a quiz on it

if you pass, you get double quest rewards

if you fail, the dialogue restarts until you can pass

they shouldn’t be hard questions, but they should require reading at least a little

[bold dome]

I feel like elemental mastery does a lot already, moving it across other quests would be better

[torpid crypt]

I finally dragged my friend off of hypixel skyblock into wynncraft, so he was used to just using whatever had the highest numbers. He went fallen on his first playthrough because I told him its the archetype that does the most damage (or at least it's designed like that). Fallen is an awful archetype for a first-time player and he was annoyed at how easy it was to die, combined with soul points being a thing, and he would have quit if I didn't show him paladin.

He didn't even think there was a reason to read the abilities, especially of other archetypes, since he thought they just increased damage.

Wynn should absolutely have some kind of tutorial or explanation of what it is, besides "the largest minecraft MMORPG"

[bold dome]

A tutorial for "read text to see what thing does"...

[torpid crypt]

You completely misunderstood

The point of my message wasn't that Wynn should tell players to read

[bold dome]

How can wynn tell players to read if they wont read

Like unless you get big flashing text in their face saying "read text now" they likely won't see it or notice it/remember it.

[torpid crypt]

Again, that's not what I'm saying

[bold dome]

Okay. Ig what I mean is the game already pushes you towards realising what your abilities do(from your example) by having said mechanics need you to play around them instead of just selecting them and ignoring them

[bold dome]

For this case I think it's partly your fault tbh. You described to them that fallen was just big damage without mentioning the very clear and large downside of a loss in survivability

Which was the issue that appeared(wow who woulda guessed)

if they would of looked into the nodes and archetypes themselves to figure that out maybe they would of seen that fallen had that survivability loss and paladin provided tankiness.

I don't think it's the games fault here

[austere hedge]

i feel that expecting a new player to read up on all nodes and see what they do is not something most people would do, i reckon a npc that explains the three archetypes of your chosen character in broad terms would help people make a more well informed choice without needing to study for their wynncraft phd

[elfin nymph]

rather than an npc, why not just try and integrate archetype descriptions into the ability tree?

[austere hedge]

i feel like descriptions integrated into the ability tree will likely be more missable than an npc which is a lot less missable

[shell cipher]

??

[lavish bone]

Erm

[shell cipher]

mystery

[elfin nymph]

lmfaoooo

[proud parcel]

idk i think the whole thing i think needs to happen is that we cant just have a quest with a quiz or JUST a guide explaining everything. the quest with a quiz is a decent idea, but i feel like if players get frustrated and mess up the quiz a lot when they just wanna be done with the quest, theyre gonna associate all the stuff they just learned abt ID’s with the annoyance they felt doing the quiz. and the ingame ID guide is i think the bare minimum of what this game needs cuz honestly theres so many ids that i feel like not even experienced players understand. i just think that this game also needs some kind of way to give new players some way of interacting with these ID’s, showing them how they feel to play with, teaching them what ID’s work well together, and even stuff like how just because a piece of armor has a negative stat doesnt mean its bad. all of these experiences feel necessary for players to learn to make builds on their own without any help from community members. currently, i dont think thats possible

[austere hedge]

i would read this as getting abilities that do not help you survive making it high risk but letting you do a lot of damage, i would not read it as it having abilities that would make it actively detrimental to my survival

[frigid viper]

The lacerate description in question

[shell cipher]

"High Risks" is quite the myserious glyph indeed, only the highest scholars could decrypt it

[vague dagger]

Some sort of early-mid game quest (maybe around the level you unlock your first red node for each archetype) I think could help a lot when it comes to getting newbies to understand them. There doesn’t need to be an explanation to how the entire archetype plays but at least a general explanation and free ‘player litmus test’ with it at a more conceptual and vibes level

It would provide a nice foundation for the players to explore them further as they level em up

The tutorials for the core game mechanics just need to be more interactive, if said tutorials even exist at all

[regal roost]

as someone who's never played anything besides mage, this reads to me like how berserkers function in other mmos. keep your hp low to do more damage, maybe consume hp to do damage. "high risk" is vague and could mean different things to different players too ig

if you didn't have this previous knowledge idk if it would read that way at all though

so it could explain it better for sure

even if it was explained better with an NPC with the new dialog options, and not through that menu

[austere hedge]

i'm somewhat of a gamer so i do personally read through the skilltrees somewhat(grew up on diablo2) but i am looking at it from a person that would play wynncraft as their first mmo

[regal roost]

yea, for sure. I think a new player who has no idea what these concepts are might glance at it and just simply not understand the risks beyond "I take damage to do damage? huh"

[austere hedge]

not even so much as that, i feel they might think it's just damage and no defensive strengths but it is imo not clear on it having active defensive detriments

[lavish bone]

Never living this one down

[elfin nymph]

tbf I was just responding to the previous message

never personally had any issues w archetypes

[lavish bone]

Ofc ofc I'm just trolling in a feedback thread a little

[regal roost]

yea, then you get into the can of worms about whether or not they actually read at all

[shell cipher]

it is a proven fact the average wynncraft player is illiterate

[austere hedge]

fair enough

[formal ice]

it feels like even if you took an hour to verbally explain or demonstrate to someone how they should build they wont ever understand building unless they've actually used a recommended build. because recommended builds require certain spell patterns, casting speed (probably wyntills spellcaster), casting order, a specific ability tree, etc. This gives them an understanding of the niche yet unexplained elements of how abilities, IDs, and archetypes work. In summary, you can either start with the problem or start with the solution and let them solve the problem in reverse order

[toxic gust]

this is a little too early to go in depth on ids tbh

[chilly apex]

fair

[toxic gust]

i think you really need to wait till maybe lv30 at least for something like that

[late moon]

Ah sorry, I thought since you were doing coding on other stuff you had some background information.

[late moon]

I was referring to the content team as a whole

[frosty harness]

I mean u said devs

[late moon]

Yeah but I've still met people who think that bigger base means bigger spell damage. "Bigger number is better, and slower attack speed is to balance the better weapons"

[toxic gust]

i mean.. technically, yeah?

[late moon]

I consider content team devs too. Not necessarily programming, but they're still developers of the game. Would you not consider artists and asset drawing on the dev team?

We may just have a different definition, but for me "Dev" refers to anybody on the team who is actively developing the game in any way

[shell cipher]

except that "developer" is a specific position in the wynncraft environment and confusion can arise extremely quickly if you confound it

[frosty harness]

No

[late moon]

That's fair

[late moon]

Yeah then it's just a difference of perspective. I'll be more clear next time but I meant the content team as a whole

[formal ice]

dev and content team pretty big difference

[late moon]

To me, anyone who's working on providing something tangible to the game counts as "the development team", and then "programmers" or not is where I draw the imaginary line

And then "admin" are people who have administrative powers but don't actually provide anything to the game like ideas or models or anything. They just manage the players

[frosty harness]

Developers are who make code stuff and the game ct only use fake javascript and add normal content

[formal ice]

i guess thats okay but content team can't bring stuff into the game without dev

[late moon]

Absolutely. And programmers won't know what to put in if they don't get guidance and goals from the people with the ideas. It requires teamwork in order to get stuff done!

[formal ice]

i mean there might be a few devs who care about the content that goes in

but i dont think its an argument that coming up with the ideas is nowhere near the difficulty of actually implementing them

[proud parcel]

hard agree. thats kinda the basis for my idea towards the top of the thread. i think showing players what certain builds look like for certain playstyles is potentially one of the best ways to teach them what these builds look like later into the game. theyll get used to stuff like, mana regen lets u get back to casting spells faster, raw health regen helps u be less reliant on potions, walk speed helps u evade close range attacks. theyll be able to feel the effects of these IDs rather than just reading about them, and as they progress through the game theyll keep an eye out for items with similar ids. it would very much help if this stuff is available ingame to read if players want, but that cant be the only solution, there needs to be some sort of active way for new players to learn how builds work

[high lance]

do NOT tell anyone about professions until they get reworked

[untold lintel]

do weapons show their dps or is that a wynntils thing?

[shell cipher]

oh my

[formal ice]

yeah i mean you could probably remove every quest in the game and replace it with guides on how to build, but until they actively use a good build and are told how to use that build their knowledge is very limited. Understanding IDs I'm afraid is the least difficult thing they need to comprehend

in my opinion*

[weak zenith]

i agree with what lex said

[faint mirage]

the new players are mad about losing their hive items...

[proud parcel]

yeah i get that but then it kinda gets a bit complicated cuz like… how r u gonna teach this stuff without just telling the player exactly what build to equip and saying “cast these spells in this order thumbs up.” itll show them what a good build looks like but then they barely have the knowledge to replicate it. i think a halfway point between what ur suggesting and something more vague like an ID guide could probably help. maybe you have like whats in my suggestion, where players find the items to assemble a recommended build and can learn what a decent build looks like from there, but you also group in some general knowledge abt like “recommended ID’s” for different playstyles idk

and yeah maybe like lex said, u dont have this super early game, u maybe introduce it at like lvl 40ish where theres more items with ID’s that feel like theyre doing something

[formal ice]

somewhat probably yeah

main issue is orchestrating it in a way that wont confuse someone and wont take years to explain/tons of coding

can let ct cook ig

[proud parcel]

yeahhh very true. as always it depends on whats possible to code

but ueah ig u have to do it vague enough to where ur not just word dumping but also active and descriptive enough so that its knowledge ppl will actually absorb

[pure cipher]

Sorry for offending you

[faint mirage]

i also still dont know what exploding does besides making a sound effect and maybe doing damage

most things just arent explained well

[formal ice]

quests are explained better than ids xd

[heavy pond]

ID's are either common sense or
What the hell does this do?

All of the % stuff tends to fall in to category.
And thorns and reflection are weird in that you think thorns would be like how it is in vanilla minecraft.
All damage is given back, but wynns is just very picky

[torpid crypt]

whats the difference between CT and dev? what do you even call a singular member of the CT?

Content Teamember?

[pure cipher]

Sorry for offending you

[formal ice]

ct without dev is like fish without water

[bold dome]

Where would this npc even be? Why would the information for the spells be somewhere not in the place where you unlock the abilities?
Anyway, like the nodes have different textures for a reason rhe bigger more important looking ones do provide a better idea of what the archetype is about so even if you only read those youll figure it out.

[sullen shoal]

Developers code plugins or tools or new Systems. Content team uses given wynnscript tools to create stuff like quests or items or other content pieces

[hexed terrace]

The average dps takes both spell and melee into account

[regal roost]

Where would this npc even be? Why would the information for the spells be somewhere not in the place where you unlock the abilities?
"even if" doesn't imply its my favorite solution. each idea presented in both this thread and the other one all have their own challenges on paper and i dont think any of them are "better" or "worse"

[late moon]

Wtf how would it take spell into account when the melee DPS ignores it

[bold dome]

Well Id like to know the issues of having the information in the menu itself

[regal roost]

if all you do is dump a bunch of info into a menu, you are making that menu bloated and contributing to information overload. it's a fine balance to reach

others in the thread have discussed that expecting new players to read (and, more importantly, understand) everything from the ability tree is already iffy at best, there have also been discussions about overloading new players being a problem, too. so adding all of that info into a menu that is already arguably a lot for a new player to take in, is not going to help, imo

[hexed terrace]

Theyre effectively the same since lower base damage (not avg dps) weapons scale harder with spell damage

Faster weapons have lower base damage than slower ones, but because their attack speed is higher the base melee dps is the same, but the spell dps is the same too since slower, higher base dps weapons scale negatively with spell and faster, lower base damage weapons scale positively with spell, the spell multiplier for different attack speeds is how many times you can attack per second iirc

[high lance]

if there is one thing id say its useful for more emphasis on the weapon dps part, since its all sort of gray text, a lot (most new players i know) completely ignore it, since they just look at ability, look at description, and just ignore the dark gray text

its even more confusing when element conversions come into play, when people might wonder why their pure air damaeg weapon started doing earth damage

maybe in elemental exercise quest mention spells not just melee

and how those elemental conversions, and just conversions in general work

[supple yacht]

it does

[high lance]

hmm

i haven't played it in quite a while so maybe i haven't seen it yet

[high lance]

nice !

[supple yacht]

like. an entire section is devoted to saying "elemental conversions exist"

[high lance]

if you skip the dialogue you don't need to know

although most new players will still have attention span by that level

hopefully at least

[valid yew]

Very weird wording with "by default"

Although understandable

[supple yacht]

wiki typo, he says "does not use that element by default"

[late moon]

Oh, yeah that I knew already. I thought you meant the literal DPS number was incorporating spell damage into it, instead of the other way around

[hexed terrace]

OHHH no

the avg dps is the same for melee and spell scaling unless you have like attack tiers or spell/melee damage %

[bold dome]

Who said it had to be a info dump. It could be making the information there more concise and accurate too. +you can always have the detail in fine print and have larger more noticable parts of it give less detailed concise ideas of stuff. Though tbh abilities really arent that complicated to understand because youre only getting them once per 3 levels. Just have better summaries for the archetypes with extra info in small text maybe

[regal roost]

one sentence likely won't be sufficient when it already isn't sufficient. the entire point of the thread is you need to explain more things (or existing things in better detail). more things or more detail means more words, not less. if you need to add a paragraph to explain something effectively (which is probably necessary), it becomes an info dump... and as discussed previously that menu is already pretty dense for a new player as-is. concerns were expressed previously on whether not new players read (and understand) the info that's already there. so adding more to it is risking it being even worse.

the problem is deeper than just the archetypes being explained badly. this issue isn't isolated to that and that's what the thread is about. one sentence here nor there won't fix the real issue at all

edit: to reiterate I'm also am not saying you "can't" add it to the ability tree anyway. just that I think it has downsides which are worth keeping in mind, like everything else which is normal. issues like this rarely have one good answer.

[hexed terrace]

shadestepper: hide and one shot

[regal roost]

hide and seek fr

[heavy pond]

i'm surprised compass just doesnt have a dictionary for ID

[sick lark]

You know new players would probably have a much better time if they could more reliably get gear around their actual level instead of either knowing every single piece of gear that exists for any stat distribution at level or completely reinvesting their stats every 8 levels or so

Much as I'd like to tell people to freestyle it early on there's a sparse amount of items everywhere below level 80 that can fully match a build within 5 levels of each other

[shell cipher]

..........................caves..............................................

[willow meteor]

i totally agree with this thread, its not a problem of handholding, its a problem that theres so much that could be explained or done that isnt
for example:

• fully back the idea of an Identification dictionary
• compass damage values are STILL wack, which is rly bad because thats what most new players use to gauge how well they're doing
• way spell damage is displayed in compass is pretty unintuitive for a new player as well as inconvenient to read (no avg value?)

wynncraft has made a few changes that have made this much better, such as the "Base DPS" value on weapons, but there definitely could be some more that could be done

[opal dirge]

id also like to point out again every time this stuff comes up that the game makes like 0 attempt to tell you about the fact item ids have rolls

the closest is in tutorial when you use the item identifier which isnt actually a tutorial about rolls its a tutorial for identifying items

[ripe pilot]

that 70% to 130% thing is pretty something

[sullen crag]

This isn’t really that relevant but I’ve recently made the horrifying discovery that a lot of new players actually ignore the Identifier

Apparently the beacon points to the broken bridge or smth so they just walk past

A bit off-topic but please have the game force the player to identify the Tosach before the quest can progress further

[late moon]

That wasn't already a necessity? Oh wtf

[sullen crag]

I started a new class and legit saw some new player walk right past the Identifier

This was their first class, I checked their profile

They just joined the server minutes ago

[late moon]

I forget that TikTok has absolutely fucking destroyed the attention span and reading comprehension of little kids.

[polar moth]

i agree with your point but i should point out that troll chess exists as a game where you learn the rules across multiple games by accidentally breaking them.
this style of learning is also attributed to the popularity of early minecraft

the concept works as a game, it just doesnt work for wynncraft

[late moon]

That only works if you have someone to teach you the proper rules after you break them. Minecraft became wildly successful because there was no shortage of Let's Plays and guide videos online that were easily accessible.

It doesn't work for wynncraft because it's not an insanely popular server with hundreds of thousands of active players online at any given point in time

If it was, I think relying on the community for stuff like that would be more valid

[polar moth]

yeah

[polar moth]

^

games that do use this concept successfully usually use it as a core mechanic, like rainworld

[storm maple]

I agree that the more obscure stats need to be explained more, I have been playing Wynn for 6.5 months and i still don’t fully understand how spell damage is calculated or how exploding works.

[chilly apex]

just like vine destroyed yours

and television did the generation before

[late moon]

Never used vine, my reading comprehension is in tact 💪💪💪

[chilly apex]

ah, what about youtube

[late moon]

Yes there's always "something" but short term gratification social media has a disproportionately stronger effect than television***

[chilly apex]

um

read that again

[late moon]

I've been specifically watching videos that are 30m or longer, usually documentary videos, because I don't like how TikTok and current media has worked to shorten people's attention span, and I am actively trying to work against it by having myself get used to longer media again

[late moon]

Watching TV for long periods of time ≠ doom scrolling because you can't stay focused on a single topic for longer than 2 minutes

[chilly apex]

yep

there we go

[late moon]

My bad I'm at work. It's 3am and I clock out at 7 in the morning (I started at 7pm)

I'm just tired

[chilly apex]

it’s fine dw, the statement just completely undermined your point

[polar moth]

both kinda did though

it's certainly not universal though, just a general trend

[bold dome]

I mean I consider my attention span ass but I can also watch certain 1 hour vids no problem, I don't think it's a direct downward trend of a single statistic like that

Especially when that "statistic' is vague, varies across conditions and unspecific

[hexed terrace]

Someone really hijacked the thread to tell us vine and tv are comparable to tik tok...

[proud parcel]

the improving the new player experience thread turned into the improving ppls attention span thread

my real intention all along

[formal ice]

ppl are forgetting that wynncraft is a game, not a manual for an engine build. if mechanics cant be explained implicitly, then you can't expect someone to read information.

[formal ice]

you cant compare vanilla mc to wynncraft what

[bold dome]

Except plenty of games have mechanics that are complex and require reading into and analyzing to understand

It's just that the base required mechanics for gameplay should be implicit

Anyway what do new players not understand about archetypes/ability tree anyway

[ebon pollen]

Most of those games don't have a large part of their player base being 10 years old like Minecraft does....

But yea I honestly think it's fineeee you just have to read yep

[formal ice]

With most complex games you can tell if there's going to be a big learning curve. Wynncraft is unintentionally deceptive being a minecraft mmo that requires players to learn things like how to deal damage and make builds - and if im correct this isn't mentioned anywhere.

[elfin nymph]

is build making and dealing damage not extremely intuitive though?

[opal dirge]

eh

[elfin nymph]

as long as you're not playing to minmax there's really no issue with building

[heavy pond]

i mean seeing as how %'s are never explained.

[elfin nymph]

though i do agree there's an issue with ids not being very well explained

[bold dome]

The game
...Doesn't mention how to deal damage??

I don't think there's anything wrong with the game being more complex than the average audience expects

[willow meteor]

i think the issue i have with how the game treats this is that its often just wrong with how it relays this information to the user
as mentioned above, compass damage values are still incorrect, damage holograms are very wack and tend to override other damage holograms, both of which are issues that are deceptively transparent but can and will actually lead new players astray
when the only source of knowing exactly how much damage you do is a third party website (wynnbuilder) that ALSO tends to be wrong and outdated sometimes (with no fault of the developer, simply just a result of the various quirks of the system) and doing one singular hit on a combat dummy, which you have to place in a housing island, I think there's a problem

[sick lark]

Yeah, I don’t think new people are looking to the compass desperately trying to figure out if their damage is fine. Even I forget it’s there and do alright largely throughout my playthroughs. Min/maxing is an endgame activity since it’s only a major roadblock at the very tippy end of content .The only thing really matters through most of the game is not having horribly underleveled gear, using your spells effectively and making sure you’re investing your skill/ability points. Ability tree could be given a simplified auto invest mode or a recommendation highlighting certain nodes based on what you picked previously since most of your power is locked behind it and it’s your most complex progression system to contend with

[sullen crag]

Do new players even know the compass stats exist?

I recently met someone who didnt even know where the ability tree button is despite being shown it in the tutorial

And if new players would rather take a screenshot of the entire compass menu and ask others to help them find the button instead of spending five seconds to look around the GUI do you really think a large chunk of them would go through the effort to explore the panel’s items

Okay talking about this now I just realized that I’m lumping all new players into being as blind as this guy

Disregard what I just said

[bold dome]

Okay but tbf new wynncraft players are like the most braindead audience ive seen in a video game(exagerration)

[austere hedge]

i reckon a decent chunk of it is kids trying out the haha funny minecraft mmo and it could very well be "baby's first mmo"

[late moon]

You're completely right about that honestly

[proud parcel]

yeah thts genuinely exactly what it is

and the question is how do u get an audience like that to understand something as complex as being able to make your own build, without relying on guidance from the community

[shell cipher]

me !

[frigid viper]

As it turns out, you don't
I recall an old build when I didn't know better
Thunder powder Hive Bow
Sparkling Visor
Discharge
Tera
Warchief...

[formal ice]

wynncraft isn't intuitive. it takes discernment to find out what is and what isn't intuitive within it. blaming the player demographic is probably the least constructive thing that can be said here.

[proud parcel]

oh im not by any means blaming the demographic. im saying that the game needs to be doing better to explain very vital knowledge to its new players. right now, its basically assumed that people will figure it out on their own or join the discord and ask people there, when thats not sustainable at all.

the whole point of this discussion is how to take vital game knowledge, like how to make a build, and shift instructions on that ingame rather than solely relying on the community to explain it. and, how do you shift it ingame without just making a written guide that will make new players’ eyes glaze over (rightfully so).

the best concept weve come up with so far is trying to work in an active demonstration of how certain ID’s work so players can feel the effects for themselves, rather than them just being numbers that the player has no way of knowing what they mean. an active demonstration of how something like mana steal works will always be far better than just making the player read about it

[fresh kite]

gonna be so for real you just cant accommodate to every single clueless player, it teaches you about the ability tree in the tutorial

[elfin nymph]

i think an id dictionary + an explanation on how ids work is all that really needs to be added

build making is intuitive once you understand what ids do

[proud parcel]

i dont think his point was to say we should be accommodating to every single person who doesnt know how to read their menu, i think it was more to show an extreme end of the demographic we are working with. there are plenty of new players who are coming into wynncraft as their first mmo and we cant be expecting them to have the same levels of common sense as veteran players have when it comes to making builds and understanding ID’s and other mechanics/stats. if people can come into this game and not understand things that ARE explained, how can you expect those same players to understand things that ARENT explained??? once again, players should Not have to join the discord in order to learn how to make a build. such a vital part of playing this game should have at least SOME sort of explanation ingame. i have some vague concepts in my msg above for how this can be achieved aside from just having a written guide that players might not absorb the info from.

[bold dome]

Except the point of guides and community is sorta to accomodate for that audience/help players get deeper into the mechanics. You do not need a amazing build to get through stuff until late to endgame, and by then you should at least have learned about it. Imo I don't the players struggling is an issue unless its an extreme, because thats sorta the point. You struggle with something, you learn from that and improve. It is part of the process(in terms of build making and mechanic learning)

and people not understanding explained mechanics is sorta an extreme and what the community and guides exist for I think

things in the game don't need to be completely explained, just the required and main mechanics and functions be intuitive and learnable

Which I do think some parts of the game are lacking in

[sullen crag]

I do still feel like the key to learning about a given game mechanic would be to repeatedly reference it across its introduction that requires the player to engage with said mechanic, and then gradually fade it to simple side mentions and then eventually to just not being mentioned at all (the handholding stops)

In the case of caves a single one in King’s Recruit isn’t really like
The way to go

Doesn’t help that the King’s Recruit cave doesn’t even look like the modern 2.0.x-2.1 cave so players won’t subconsciously connect the two even if they remember that they did a cave in the tutorial

[bold dome]

uhh someone bring up that memory graph

[sullen crag]

in the tutorial
You know, the stage of the game where the game is introducing a bunch of other mechanics to the player so the concept of the cave itself isn’t exactly something they will internalize compared to the other stuff the quest focuses more on, like combat?

[sullen crag]

I suppose that’s a good way of showing it

[bold dome]

You gradually space them out further and further

though doesn't it spam "you have ability points unused" in chat when you have them(though it seems to be ignored a lot)

[sullen crag]

Ya

[bold dome]

I still think a design that makes the player engage with the mechanic to remind them would be better

[sullen crag]

Anyways I do have some ideas in terms of integrating the concept of caves in a way that new players will slowly internalize them, but it’ll require the addition of them across a couple of earlygame quests

Particularly past level 15, because level 1-14 is still way too early for the player to even worry about loot

[bold dome]

the issue with taking the tower as a cave quest is it uses one of the few caves WHICH ISNT A CAVE. So the player doesnt have that association

[sullen crag]

Gear is absolutely not an issue for them at that stage

Oh btw on an unrelated note

May I suggest a slight alteration to the Decrepit Sewers quest?

Since Witherhead’s leap attack is specifically designed to be unavoidable for at-level players without the usage of the movement spell, how about have both the quest and the dungeon revolve around that concept?

As in, the concept of both introducing the player to the existence of their class’ movement spell along with a second reminder of the ability tree post-King’s Recruit

Have the forced red circle again, this time during the Sewers of Ragni quest

Assuming the player hasn’t already unlocked their movement ability, this will show up

[bold dome]

On yeah simmiliar to that I kinda dislike the removal of the unique dungeon mechanics with how they'd teach you the boss mechanics across the dungeon

[sullen crag]

After that the Reaper boss will be their first actual tutorial on avoiding attacks that can only be evaded via movement spell

[bold dome]

then it actaully pays off in the boss fight, with the 2.1 reworks the bossfights and dungeons feel a lot more detached

[sullen crag]

After that, have parts of the dungeon play out similarly with mechanics that require this

And then finishing off with Witherhead, who adopts this same concept with her attacks

[bold dome]

Like with Ds the pressure plates to create barriers
holding plats in ip
Uc with survival and waiting
Ls with the tnt

[shell cipher]

i don't think AP/SP is very ignored, i see people almost panicking over the first fork in the ability tree/demanding how to "build" their skill points in #❓questions fairly often

[bold dome]

Like they werent the funnest mechanics but the way they were integrated worked really well

[bold dome]

Well You have more experience than me so Ill take your word for it. Other mechanics in the game that are ignored could be better taught with this design tho

[shell cipher]

the points are like... fine, as you said the game is basically stuck to your ear screaming about it, and it's not difficult to just splurge on whatever looks good(not that people really take the time to read descriptions...) but yeah there is a lot to be improved around the game heck lemme try to think of something that's problematic real quick uhhh uhh uhhhh

[bold dome]

quests people dont do quests. (some do but a lot of people still just run around and kill mobs)

[sullen crag]

I want to give Witherhead her bow back

[bold dome]

Give witherhead a bowsword to stab you with

[shell cipher]

yeah i was thinking a better way to encourage players to do quests could be important, don't have any direct ideas though

...y'know it'd be neat if horses were explained literally anywhere(unless i'm unaware of a giant infodump ternaves villager), at least before those get phased out of the game as they should

[supple yacht]

I want to point out that for the longest time holding the pressure plates in infested pit was actively problematic

until I finally got fed up and changed it, the enemies that spawned in the areas you could close off with the pressure plates held the tokens you needed to collect in order to progress, and the rest of the enemies in the room were so scarce that you had to rely on them to progress. holding the pressure plates punished you by forcing you to wait

[bold dome]

. I am aware they were flawed but the strucure is something I want to see more in dungeons

[late moon]

Poor noobs, actively making their own experience less fun by following what CT intended for them to do

[heavy pond]

Then someone changed it anyway to just be only the mobs in the room and not the spiders

Completely making that change useless

[supple yacht]

wha

uh. run that one by me again, what happens now

[heavy pond]

i have done that room many times.
Spiders don't count to the tokens thing

[supple yacht]

...all the mobs are spiders, what

[heavy pond]

only the humanoid ones do and there's no way to block their spawning

[supple yacht]

...yes??? that's the point???

[heavy pond]

But the pressure plates don't block them.
So you can freely block the pressure plates to make your life easier and not get punished for it.

[heavy pond]

I mean like this
"holding the pressure plates punished you by forcing you to wait"
they no longer do punish you.

[supple yacht]

used to be
-spiderlings which dropped tokens spawned in the nooks and were blockable by pressure plates
-arachne spawned scarcely outside, so blocking the pressure plates made the room take too long

I changed it to
-arachne now spawn at a more reasonable rate and number
-instead of spiderlings you have the high-damage, fast-moving Snapjaw Spiders which drop no tokens, so blocking the pressure plates is good

[supple yacht]

the fact that the mechanic we were teaching punished you for using it was a bad thing.

[heavy pond]

was that also when you changed the boss fight to the totem thing?

[supple yacht]

fairly sure those were separate

that also wasn't me, that was lumi

[heavy pond]

yeah i've never liked that totem change. I didn't realise you made them more common, but i think your change alone would of been fine.

I need to re-do infested pit actually. Since they removed that now right? Or am i misremembering

[sullen crag]

Congratulations it took a full thirty-six minutes before the first in-game tip showed up on-screen
What a productive experiment

God I really need to make that forums suggestion that turns game tips into the fourth boss bar cycle amongst the territory, guild xp and curent bombs

[clever garden]

apply for command blocker already

[proud parcel]

i was also thinking abt another thing thts like slightly more interactive than just having an id guide that players can choose not to read

but like if a player identifies an item with an id that theyve never seen beofre they will get a popup in chat that they discovered a new id and they can click on it to get a little info on tht id

[proud parcel]

realllll

also 36 minutes is crazy

[shell cipher]

"popup in chat" means .12% of the playerbase will notice it and look at it

[proud parcel]

well thats if a more active solution doesnt work. ive suggested ways to incorporate buildmaking/id’s into a quest format earlier. also lol itd be better than what the game currently has which is no explanation on ids unless u go to the discord or the wiki

[opal dirge]

i would

[sullen crag]

Grinding mobs was this guy’s first thought in methods of getting gear

[ebon pollen]

you get your first loot in the game from a chest in a cave tho 😭

[sullen crag]

Yeah but many players don’t recognize that caves are recurring

When they do the cave in King’s Recruit or the tower in Taking The Tower they can as just as easily assume that those are quest areas and the chests are just quest rewards

Not that those pieces of content are prevalent throughout the entire game

[left compass]

I mean during the late game there are spots where you can grind mobs just for gear

[bold dome]

Again with the tower thing why did they choose the one cave not a cave

[bold dome]

There's some added early game loot grind spots too

[left compass]

Or I ment to say early

there isn't any for late game

pretty sure the highest it goes is lvl 30?

[bold dome]

Idk selvut said they'd keep adding them over time so there's probs more

[left compass]

I don't think ive come across any around lvl 40-50

at least that I know off, it would be crazy with LB gear on shaman

[toxic gust]

cause it was turning an existing npc interaction into a quest

i agree it doesnt introduce caves super well

[frigid viper]

I note that the cave used in the tutorial is a bit unstandard compared to the actual caves
has no standard name
no combat
and interactive objects, which aren't particularly prevalent in early caves beyond token systems

[sullen crag]

The worse part is not that it doesn’t look like the standard content book cave, even if that is technically an issue

The problem is that it appears way too early into the game to be used as an attempt to teach players about caves

This is the period of time when the average new player doesn’t know anything about the game yet

They’re still getting used to the look of the game along with all the combat mechanics that they’re going to be dealing with like two minutes after

Compared to fighting, which I should mention the game requires them to perform the moment they step out of Ragni, none of them are going to remember about the random cave right before the bridge

They’re not going to internalize it
I bet half of them don’t even remember that cave exists

The point is, way too early to try to teach the player about caving

[clever garden]

rework The Stair into a cave pls, with the signature holograms and obvious entrance

[sullen crag]

In my personal opinion, the perfect point of progression to begin to introduce the player to the purpose of caves and their prevalence is roughly at the point where the player begins to struggle under the weight of underleveled gear

With a direct issue to relate to and a ready solution given to them at their general time of need and desperation, the idea of caves being said solution to “need better gear” will be drilled into their heads far more effectively

This is merely just a suggestion, and a half-baked one at that, but an example of a theoretical quest that achieves this would be something like AJB, where a powerful enemy is artificially impossible to beat with the player’s current setup

[clever garden]

Remove all <lvl10 pants from the game and then have the player be arrested on entering detlas and be forced to cave for them

[sullen crag]

returning from their failure, the player’s dialogue option to whoever is accompanying us can quite literally be as direct as “I think we might need better weapons”/“gear in order to defeat this enemy”

At that point, the whole spiel about the existence of caves across levels and what they give the player and how to access them via the content book can be done then

Perfect stage of progression, perfect time, perfect problematic situation

[clever garden]

Ehh not a fan of streamlining it that hard, i liked the content book usability more

[sullen crag]

Not too early into the game, and orchestrated right at the moment when the player needs the caves’ purpose in order to minimize the clashing of other instances where the player is busy learning about other aspects of the game

[sullen crag]

Elaborate

[clever garden]

I dont like how forced it sounds, caves can already be very exciting to do if the player tries a few and gets cool lootboxes, they dont need to be told how to get gear, just given a taste of caving

But the player isnt really directed to use the content book for caves

[sullen crag]

Well, the quest I mentioned does direct the player to do caves via the book

Hopefully if done correctly it can encourage the player to seek out more of the book’s caves post-quest

[clever garden]

Taking the tower could do that instead of the marker

[sullen crag]

Okay, first off, please don’t use the tower as an example cave lol

It’s a psychological thing
It’s kinda better if the cave is like, you know, an actual cave

[clever garden]

It is

Also the tower doesnt have a cave hologram, just like the first quest

And making the first cave longer, but easier, with 0 ranged enemies will help avoid traumatizing people

[late moon]

Pattern recognition. Normal human beings don't recognize a pattern from doing something only once. And no where in the tutorial does it say to keep looking for caves to get better loot

[clever garden]

Can you still equip tosach without identifying it

[sullen crag]

No

It’s a box

[clever garden]

yeah when you equip it it looks like a box on your head

[sullen crag]

How do you equip it
It’s not a player head

[clever garden]

easily.

[frigid viper]

very carefully

[willow meteor]

become the tosach

[polar moth]

unid boxes are in fact player heads

thats why they snap to your helmet slot if you shift right click them in hotbar with no helmet on

[sullen crag]

Strange
Did they change it from stone shovels?

Player heads have a resolution of 8x8 pixels, unidentified boxes can’t be them

[polar moth]

good point about the resolution thing, i didnt consider that

if they are not player heads then the behavior of unid boxes is very strange to me.

• when shift clicked from the hotbar, they attempt to go to the head slot (vanilla behavior of head slot item). wynncraft then tries to prevent that because they arent identified
• when right clicked form the hotbar, they attempt to swap with the currently equipped armor piece (vanilla behavior of equippable items). wynncraft then undoes it because they again, arent identified

[sullen crag]

Check the tooltip

F3 + H
To verify

[opal dirge]

counter argument: chest loot is awful

[sullen crag]

counter argument: bro I’ve been pushing for caves for a reason

I’m not even asking for changes to cave loot they are legit just actually really good for leveling up

I’ve created several new classes and cave loot and quest rewards are always enough to get me from level 1 to 103

[sullen crag]

Moment

[high lance]

isn’t /class hidden in like a whole two messages that are so long they instantly get pushed of screen

[sullen crag]

Assuming the message even appears in the first place

Step 1 wait like 15-40 minutes

Step 2 roll some dice

[sullen crag]

.-.

[sullen crag]

ffs

[torpid crypt]

dear god

maybe with all the cool legendary gear its doable

but I doubt thats the case

[sullen crag]

They didn’t want to upgrade their gear after I told them about it

They apparently wanted the xp bonus of their current gear

And were a bit reluctant to let the bonus go

[torpid crypt]

Wait till they learn about adventurer set

And rarity rings

[fresh kite]

guys how do I exit the building

[tacit spear]

go thru the front door

[royal stone]

What's a door?

[left compass]

Just go through the empty spaces, yeah there is a bar but just go under

[sullen crag]

Dude

[clever garden]

join dude

[ebon pollen]

erm wadahell please do not hijack threads to promote your guild silly silly

[supple yacht]

uh, dude, what am I joining

[clever garden]

the guild!

[supple yacht]

what guild

[clever garden]

[DUDE]

[supple yacht]

I'm listening dude but you gotta tell me what guild it is

[clever garden]

dude are you for real

[supple yacht]

I'm the realest dude to ever be sicknasty in the house dude

[clever garden]

counterpoint: you're a figment of my imagination

[supple yacht]

If you really think that dude I think you should be hangin out with some different dudes who'll respect a dude's inner monologue and feelings

dyou think it's dudely to downplay a dude's feelings dude

like, dude

[clever garden]

if only there was a group of dudes like that, a guild perhaps

[supple yacht]

yeah dude that's what I mean but you gotta tell me the guild dude

[clever garden]

its aeq!

[supple yacht]

oh,dang dude, I just remembered I'm already in a guild. sorry for stringin you along dude

[clever garden]

cut those strings dude, be free

[supple yacht]

I just did dude. I was the free one, I just did my dude dirty by stringin you up

[clever garden]

this you

[tight crystal]

I mean rhwrw was also a guy who didn't know how to open the inventory

[sullen crag]

That's more on the fact that they've never played Minecraft before and hence would be unfamiliar with something like that

Which is far more believable and entirely different from missing out on dialogue or the game literally telling you to go to a guy right beside you on two different separate occasion

I've met players who didn't know how to use the bow and were wondering why the bow uses right click while all the other weapons used left click solely because they didn't play Minecraft before

Which I can entirely understand, in a completely unironic fashion

[sullen crag]

: (

[sullen crag]

: ( (the sequel)

[sullen crag]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[polar moth]

[golden kite]

This just feels like a thread making fun of stupid people

[polar moth]

this is a thread pointing out that new wynncraft players who are either new to minecraft, or new to mmorpgs, exist, and that the existing systems do not do a good enough job of explaining themselves nor making themselves known

to name a few:

• using chat to type commands is something a person who doesnt play on minecraft servers would do
• finding quests from a quest book is not something all mmorpg players would necessarily think to do
• grinding xp by doing quests is just a completely non-standard method of levelling. neither minecraft nor mmorpg players would expect this

[late moon]

As he said above, yeah, the experience for new players is different

They don't always play RPGs or even know what that is