Add these Acrobat abilities

[stiff tundra]

I saw these a while ago and thought they were incredible for acrobat, hard cooldowns never really made sense to me since acrobat is a very active, constantly attacking class and I always wanted something you could stack and keep up pretty much indefinitely, cooldowns definitely make sense for shadestepper since it's a less active bursty class, but flowstate and even parry having a cooldown was always weird to me, the mana is also very nice since acrobat is probably one of the more mana hungry classes if not the most, parry doesn't do much for it and weightless can't always carry it alone, not to mention the fact that parry's usefulness being directly linked to how much agility you have is weird to me, I'm not a huge fan of abilities that directly relate to a stat, looking back I know why precise strikes got removed. The bladestorm portion definitely interests me less, but I still do like the concept of adding a little extra burst damage in a flurry of attacks, damage might be a little low, but if this was added as is I'd be very happy.

My reasoning might not be the best admittedly, it is 5am atm lmao, but I did hear this suggestion was very popular and I think it would be so awesome

[lusty wedge]

i mean they would be fun but those are kinda op

[honest hedge]

bladestorm is kinda cool yes, but the righting reflex part feels wrong

many people play without righting reflex so it’ll be cancer

also this means flow state will have to move down the tree, which is… ok

but acro will probably be too broken yep

this would probably never come with a fatality nerf

also spell cost reduction is a from me

[lunar schooner]

i dont think so

[lofty falcon]

These would be sick

[proven temple]

yoo these are my children

@cedar steeple

[proven temple]

the damage and mana buffs are strong, but bladestorm isn’t that OP, and i think that due to acro’s inherently low dps, it probably won’t be that broken in practice, especially considering that you won’t always have all three stacks unless you’re consistently attacking

[proven temple]

yea i think that could be removed entirely or just the righting reflex req

[lusty wedge]

if theres atleast 2 mobs you'd pretty much have perma no?

and acro has so much low dmg tick spam that bladestorm procs really fast too

[proven temple]

bladestorm has a 1s cooldown so multiple enemies won’t help you any more than one enemy would

wait no not bladestorm, flow state lmao sorry

but yea you wouldn’t be able to gain stacks that fast, and bladestorm would proc quickly but it doesn’t have a ton of damage so i don’t think it would be too bad. but numbers can always be tweaked of course

[lusty wedge]

well more mobs gets you better uptime because they'd proc at better times, but yeah

[proven temple]

i don’t understand what you mean by proc at better times

[lusty wedge]

well if its in cd for like .1s still and you proc it, it wouldnt give you a stack, so now you'd be at 2 stacks instead of 3

until you proc bladestorm again

[proven temple]

oh i see. then yea it would be helpful to have more mobs, the same as weightless i think

[proven temple]

i don’t see why you think so? the numbers can always be tweaked but spell cost reduction will only add to build variety and let more people play acro without having to build 60 million mana regen. mana regen will still be needed ofc but not to the extent that it is now

[smoky quest]

funny enough that 30 hits req is the same amount of hits in a multiweave, i like this ability but please dont make it with righting reflex req lmfao

[lusty wedge]

but my favourite thing about the abilities is probably reflex reset, it should honestly 100% be a thing already if you hit like a piro or flow state

[proven temple]

yea righting reflex req can be removed but i think that the reset could stay if possible

or what if… hear me out: righting reflex regens on its own

[smoky quest]

idc about righting reflex im never touching that shit

[proven temple]

lmao it’s useful sometimes when you need it

[smoky quest]

when would you need it?

[proven temple]

like if you’re fighting something and you want to grab something off your desk you can just hold shift and like stick some food in your mouth or smth

[smoky quest]

you can do that with your keyboard hand instead, and just spellcycle with your mouse if you know the timings

[proven temple]

you still gotta use your other hand for hop tho

[lusty wedge]

yeah reflex is useless for raiding, but its incredibly op in lr with propeller

[smoky quest]

if you dash right before lacerate upward momentum you get further up same way as hop, just less vertical

[lusty wedge]

lets pray for acro mythic aspect today 🙏

[proven temple]

you’ll fall eventually
it’s not worth it to do all that, righting reflex is really nice to have for me honestly. i don’t use it to fly or anything but like it’s so convenient

and it’s only 1 ap now but i can see if you’re going for blazing powder it wouldn’t be good to take. personal preference ig

[smoky quest]

thats the same as righting reflex, its literally the same

[lusty wedge]

i still get both

[proven temple]

more effort

but it’s personal preference tbh

[smoky quest]

still shows you never need righting reflex, as i said

[proven temple]

it’s kinda useless outside of niche areas so it’s understandable why you wouldn’t take it

[lusty wedge]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=8#9_2SG2SH2SI2SJ2SK2SL2SM2SN0Q+00000000221g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0-1TldnN5-sn1 my favourite acro tree if you have agi on the build (propeller in build aswell)

[proven temple]

i mean the lacerate slashes are alright but the sounds omg. and righting reflex’s enhanced gliding is really nice but again no one uses that outside of lrs and qol.

i wish it added momentum to lacerate and hop instead, that would be helpful to everyone

[lusty wedge]

i mean i never really listen to the sound anyway, its just engrained muscle memory for me at this point when i click

[smoky quest]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=8#9_2SG2SH2SI2SJ2SK2SL2SM2SN0DX00000000001g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0-1TjdvM5RjZ9 this is the tree i use (with +3 multihits aspect)

[lusty wedge]

impostor ability

[proven temple]

well yeah the sound doesn’t mess you up but it is so silly

[rotund fog]

Hadududududud

[proven temple]

mfw distraction works better on acro than trickster:

[lusty wedge]

i mean like only time i'd agree on taking it is if you take it for your team

but solo acro doesnt care for it, you arent getting hit that often anyway

[smoky quest]

you want to see a real impostor? (funniest playstyle i ever done on acro)
https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=8#9_2SG2SH2SI2SJ2SK2SL2SM2SN0DX00000000001g000000z0z0+0+0+0+0-1TjdvkdT79

dgas acro but this only really works with nirv cuz holy shit the mana drain is insane

[lusty wedge]

grounded acro

sandbagging parry flow is crazy tech

[smoky quest]

you're inside the smoke bomb when doing multiweave, even more with aspects

[smoky quest]

oh also this is wrong, i forgot to remove psithurism, better range from melee is better

[lusty wedge]

is that just for easier ms?

i never personally use better melee because i pref mr

[smoky quest]

yes and for curse

i usually just build hybrid with enough mr to regular flight and enough mr/ms to fast multiweave

ms just has a lot more sustain

[cedar steeple]

these abilities SUCK who made these

(I'm kidding guys)

but yeah as much as Bladestorm is cool, it defo would need dev time cuz I don't think there's a "hitting an enemy x times does something to that enemy" tech yet

[smoky quest]

Flow State:

but yeah, dev time

[cedar steeple]

sorry wait lemme rephrase that

but yeah Bladestorm ultimately is to reward non-stop hits cuz Flow State's cooldown interferes with that. a non-dev time solution would look like a "hitting enemies x times grants a stacking damage buff, but touching the ground resets it" kinda deal

[smoky quest]

we could just get flowstate reworked into bladestorm

[cedar steeple]

I mean ig Flow State isn't really so problematic that it needs to be addressed immediately

[smoky quest]

the design of flow state is cool in concept but bad in practice, bladestorm is just a better flow state imo

[cedar steeple]

why thank you

my math was off with Bladestorm btw, it can defo get a bit more damage to match Flow State's damage buff

though Flow State did get nerfed recently so maybe 100% of your DPS is good enough

[smoky quest]

flow state average dps increase went from 16% to 11% iirc

let me calculate how much 100% of your DPS actually adds to multiweave since it will proc every multiweave (exactly 30 hits)

[cedar steeple]

yeah that's the math part lol, matching a damage buff to a damage bonus

[smoky quest]

thats a 6% dps increase

[cedar steeple]

and yeah, 5s of 30% damage buff then 10s of nothing is around +10% dps total. that's where I messed up last time

[smoky quest]

we can bump the dmg to 200% of your base dps and it will be exactly like flow state

[cedar steeple]

oh lmfao

[cedar steeple]

yeee nice

[smoky quest]

plus it looks cooler, like imagine it procing right after fatality or something everytime, like a second fatality

it also incentivizes the actual way you should play acrobat (aka multiweaving)

[proven temple]

yeah it would look sick lmao

[proven temple]

yeah it’s definitely not as bad as, say, paladin or shade, but it could use changes eventually, once there is enough dev time to focus on that stuff

[cedar steeple]

oh defo, that's one of my main points with Bladestorm: you can add hella good vfx/sfx to Bladestorm procs that would give acro gameplay that oomph

[proven temple]

we need the oomph

[hallow basin]

the second one wouldn’t be used much i think

i already have issues with nirvana, even less cost would make it really hard to get jbloom up

[proven temple]

that’s true, but it’s also a free 20-30% damage bonus, which is hard to ignore. and the mana cost was meant to be 20% reduction anyway, so it wouldn’t always be that bad

i can see why nirvana users or people with lower mana costs might avoid it? maybe? but i think it would be used a lot because of the damage buff and how much easier it would make it to build enough mana to sustain

[stiff tundra]

The righting reflex part being gone is not a deal breaker lol, I was mainly interested in the new flow state

[smoky quest]

i think the dmg and mana could go to 5% per stack and thats still quite op with bladestorm

imo just ignore the 2nd one and convert flow state into bladestorm

thats the same dmg increase, just more satisfying and incentivizes multiweaving

oh yeah but 100% -> 200% or 250% of base dps

[stiff tundra]

For the flowstate values I'd say they're probably fine, I'd have em each 5% going up to 25% damage and cost reduction

[cedar steeple]

that's a very good point

I'm thinking it can just give x mana over 5s, manastorm style

[smoky quest]

thats way too much, no

[stiff tundra]

I guess that is the tradeoff for nirvana since it will never struggle with mana ever

[smoky quest]

15% dmg and cost reduction at max, anything over that and thats too strong

[stiff tundra]

15 probably would be fine

[stiff tundra]

That would be sick actually

The biggest thing again is I think acrobat needs more mana, less cooldowns and more constant damage, flow state always seemed like more of a shade ability to me

[smoky quest]

oh yeah i forgot, mandatory @plucky spire ping

[stiff tundra]

Constant damage buff anyway

[smoky quest]

imo we dont need a 2nd ability, just a flowstate rework into EITHER +5% dmg/cost buff for 3s at 1s cd every 30 hits, or add a slash every 30 hits for 200% of base dps

either of those is already enough, we dont need a second ability, just a flowstate rework

[cedar steeple]

flow state (purple node) was designed to replace parry bc it requires agi

[stiff tundra]

Flowstate is definitely better

[stiff tundra]

Yeah

[smoky quest]

alright, so just a flowstate rework into every 30 hits (1s between hits) grant a stack giving +5% dmg and -5% cost for 3s, 1s cd

[cedar steeple]

ye so like it's there for a reason. it ain't just some second ability, it's to promote players to take more acrobat nodes without needing to have agi in their build

[stiff tundra]

Yeah that sounds good

[grizzled brook]

yeah i agree can we give shadestepper flow state it would work so well with how shade is played anyway just replace death magnet for it 👍🏽

[stiff tundra]

Real

[smoky quest]

did some maths and with that we'd get 6.3% dps increase on a single target with that, but thats a single target only

prob a better idea to just reduce the hits required to increase the dmg instead of increasing the buffs

[stiff tundra]

Ignoring the setup, it would fit, I mean its a significant damage buff on a significant cooldown

Its satsujins cousin effectively

[grizzled brook]

yeah + it would synogise with knightcloak dagger with how it spams a bunch of attacks if your close to the mob

[smoky quest]

if its two enemies being hit (or 15 hits to activate) it goes to 7.3% average dps increase

[stiff tundra]

I dont think it should be a shadestepper ability I just said it felt like one

[grizzled brook]

it fits more with shade then acro cause from what i have seen acro is more about consistant decent dps rather than high burst which shade does

[stiff tundra]

Yeah exactly

[smoky quest]

if its 20 hits to proc and 8% dmg increase then it matches current flowstate's average dps perfectly on a single target, and gets a bit stronger on multiple targets

[stiff tundra]

Interesting

I think it definitely should be a good mix of single target and aoe since the other archetypes identify strongly with one of those

[smoky quest]

if you somehow have a bajillion enemies to hit with these stats (aka instant proc) you get to 13.3% dps increase

[stiff tundra]

So that sounds solid

[smoky quest]

wait, am i doing it wrong? hold up

yes i was, that time it stacks up to 3 times, i only calculated 2 stacks

yeah thats the full 24% dmg increase, but requires a bajillion enemies

[stiff tundra]

Yeah thatd be in cybel and virus doc basically

Nol as well but not constantly

I also like kinda came back to Wynn recently and havent thought about this much, but whats monk vs acro like, in my eyes acrobat should do more dps and battlemonk would be tankier, but Ive seen some wacky battlemonk stuff and I wonder if its just a better acro

With less precise movement obv

[smoky quest]

maybe 6% dmg per stack and 15 hits to proc or something is the way to go

[stiff tundra]

6% up to 3?

[smoky quest]

yeah, the cap doesnt matter since its based on the length and the cd

3s length 1s cd means the cap is 3 at instant proc

[stiff tundra]

That works

[smoky quest]

made a little sheet to show the dps based on the stacking thing

single target avg dps is 12% increase (almost exactly the same as current flow state) and it slowly increases up to 18% dps increase the more hits you get

at 15 hits to proc a stack and 6% dmg per stack ^