trade market

[woeful jewel]

I really like the new trade market design and ui BUT I’ve always found the trademarket lacking rythem. Looking up things clogs up chat and there’s no bidding feature like how things would normally be sold back in the day where the style of wynncraft takes place. I feel although the market allows for trade, it doesn’t feel alive. If this could be changed, it would shed a whole new light on wynncraft and its living economy. Kudos on the new design though. I love it.

[late pelican]

yeah i like the new design but it would be nice if searches weren't totally public, if possible. it really clogs up chat unless you have ghosts turned off

[signal dragon]

an auction option would be super cool imo, though could prob be abused pretty easily w friends. would need to have like an aggressive tax or something to combat that, which would end up making it useless.

besides that i dont really understand your suggestion in a practical sense, could you go into more detail on making the tm feel more "alive"?

[fresh lintel]

Poor artemis trademarket, you Will be missed

[woeful jewel]

so, im gonna take an example from another server rq. Hypixel Skyblock. If you are on any of the main islands, you can see how people are constantly advertising and telling people to look at their items for a good price. I have never seen this in wynncraft. this is partialy due to their being little commands on looking at a certain persons whares and due to their being many different towns instead of just one but it is also due to how the market in wynncraft works compared to that in hypixel skyblock. Hypixel's market is easy to navigate without looking like a chest monster as wynncraft's tends to.

So 1. organization

and 2. the market spreading to word of mouth

[signal dragon]

i think this difference is caused by TM being annonymous on Wynn, while you can search by playername on hsb. This is aan addition I wouldnt mind, as long as its toggleable

[woeful jewel]

in hpxl skyblock people advertising tend to say to type in /ah and then their username

this would open up the whares that that person is currently selling on the market

[celest aspen]

agreed! i think this has been brought up before too

somtimes i want ppl to see that im selling something so they can dm if they want to avoid tax. other times i would like to remain anonymous while i sell something horribly overpriced :D

[signal dragon]

this type of thing does still happen ingame, its just disconnected from the tm. People shout about mythics they're selling all the time, and just check #💰trade_market, however I'm still generally in agreement on the idea

[woeful jewel]

i can never tell when theyre advertising and when theyre looking something up on the tm.

[toxic holly]

I don’t think there needs to be a toggle, just
If you search up an item, it is anonymous
If you search up by player (like /tm <name>), it shows their listings

Though, I think that’s mostly a side thing, the main problem is the trade market itself being confusing and cluttered

[woeful jewel]

I think another benefit hypixel has is the currency is non physical and is instead a score.

[vital spruce]

didn't this come up before? like i'll be honest, i'm still of the opinion if the trade market ever stopped being completely anonymous it needs to be a toggle. And I mean to the point it's opt in

[signal dragon]

physical money is cooler im gonna be real

fuck a number lemme stack these bands

[woeful jewel]

the issue isnt just being anonymous, its the difficulty navagating and having searches appear in chat

[vital spruce]

I meant with regards to this.

[toxic holly]

Well, it’s still anonymous, just you can just search a specific player’s listings

[vital spruce]

make it opt in then sure. To me the trade market is completely fine with being 100% anonymous outside of the market stalls that exist (even though they're never used correctly)

and bidding gets messy due to the fact sleep schedules are a thing and how auctions can last a long time

[toxic holly]

Bidding works fine in hypixel skyblock and unofficially in discord, adding an in game way to bid is most likely not a major issue

[vital spruce]

Eh. to me a bidding system being in wynncraft would just not be worth the headache. especially as with tealy said, abusable unless done right

[signal dragon]

the problem with bidding is that it'd be incredibly easy to bid rig with another account/a friend. only ways i can think of rn to counteract this would be, like i said, a big tax added onto the price to sting people resetting auctions, or a fee to place a bid (which would suck more and basically just be tax anyway)

[woeful jewel]

I mean, if a friend bids then that friend is gonna either buy it or someone else is gonna pay more

[signal dragon]

yeah, but then the friends just swap back

[woeful jewel]

people have the option to bid

[signal dragon]

the scam is that it can artificially raise an auction and get ppl to pay more

[woeful jewel]

ok, that doesnt hurt anyone, just makes them loose money from tax

[vital spruce]

artificially causing a bidding war is one of the dumber things to ever happen

(let's be honest people can and will do this a lot)

[signal dragon]

it does.

[toxic holly]

I mean, bidding already exists in both hypixel skyblock and in discord and it works fine

[signal dragon]

and yeah the way to counter this would be like a 10% tax on auctions

[toxic holly]

Actually exists…well almost everywhere

[vital spruce]

ignoring the multiple youtuber donation items that exist.

[signal dragon]

yeah but auction scams on discord are very common, thats why its good practice to ask for the identity of the other person bidding.

[vital spruce]

(seriously hypixel skyblock even allowing that is one of the dumbest things to exist and it'd probably annoy everyone if a few media ranks tried that here)

[toxic holly]

No, they use but it now ways (basically the same as wynncraft, list it for an absurd amount and wait days for someone to donate)

[woeful jewel]

if ur going to be scammed from somebody raising the price of a bid alot, then your going to be scammed by an overpriced item

[toxic holly]

Yes, there’s a lot of scams because it’s using an unofficial discord way of doing it

For example, a common scam is manipulating the picture of an item, for say, a better id. Since there’s no official way to auction, this is unfortunately a common scam

[woeful jewel]

You cant manipulate items in wynncraft though

[signal dragon]

what? then it'd just get caught when they go to trade ingame

[toxic holly]

Unfortunately not, let’s say they change some small id, say make mr a little higher. Some people might look closely when they browse the discord, then when they trade it they feel they already know it.

[signal dragon]

also im unsure what your stance is. you said bidding "works fine" on discord but you're also agreeing that there are lots of scams

[signal dragon]

i mean ive never seen this happen but sure maybe it could on discord. im not saying discord is perfect, im saying auctions have this issue

[toxic holly]

“Bidding” as in the general concept of bidding, obviously scams exist due to it being discord and untrustworthy

For a legit item being showcased, bids work out fine

[signal dragon]

do you understand the issue with the auction scheme i explained

[toxic holly]

Yes, but in practice, it’s a lot more complicated

This is shown by “artificial raises” in discord, hypixel skyblock, and in real life being a tricky affair.

In general, people already to bidding, but since it’s on discord and unofficial, scams unfortunately exist

I think the fact that trade market on discord is thriving, despite the scams, shows that there is a general demand for some form of auction

[signal dragon]

It being on Discord has nothing to do with the scam, if we were to implement a bidding feature into the trade market, it would need to include an anti-artificial raise feature, such as bidder identity, an increased tax to buyers, etc, otherwise it would promote this scam much more than discord does, by making it possible to do ingame to random people who may not be as invested in the game economy as players on the discord (who this still happens to often), and therefore may not know to be suspicious of these aggressive raises

[toxic holly]

I’m talking about the “fake item” scam, and variants that only exist on discord

But yes, anti-manipulation mechanics should help, I don’t think raising taxes to insane amounts is the only way

[signal dragon]

is that like a new thing or a thing you're just hypothesizing could happen. ive been very involved with the tm for like 6 years straight and i dont think ive ever heard of someone getting scammed like this

[teal wyvern]

hey you're blue again
acquitted huh

[teal wyvern]

honestly i've never seen anyone attempt to scam on wynn
this isn't hsb, most people aren't such lowlifes

[signal dragon]

people definitely scam, just not in this way from what ive seen at least

[teal wyvern]

really? ppl scam?

[signal dragon]

unbelievable i know

[woeful jewel]

u cant have a bidding war on discord for items in game if theyre on the trade market,

[signal dragon]

what

[toxic holly]

well, I guess it's lucky you didn't go into the "down lows" of discord during those years

this post sorta explains a lot of the scams you see on discord, specifically the "During the Trade", where they did describe the "fake item" thing I talked about
https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/how-to-deal-with-scamming-how-to-know-if-someone-is-scamming-you.191621/
(I guess technically those are 2 different scams, this one is swapping the item for a fake scam)

They also talk about the other scams, like since there is a limit to the trade window, a super easy scam is simply just not paying full or the middle man just running off

Unofficial discord markets generally pray on the haphazard "trading" part, since there is no official system in place they can abuse that part of it

Though other stuff they talked about is more "simpler", stuff like
there is no proof of the item since it's on discord, they might not even play anymore, etc. etc.

(Also, it should not matter whether a scam is "hypothesized" or not, the fact that it can exist is bad enough, and that it will probably be used sometime in the future)

[proven shuttle]

But isn’t that like more prone to bugs and dupes though

(But yes it’s still pretty cool)

[gray edge]

Can we get a bundle of emeralds in the trade menu to fit more emeralds into it

[woeful jewel]

Economy update 2, the sequel to capitalism

[minor tusk]

Some good ideas here

[haughty elbow]

when is trade market sending chats being fixed so that lutho chat is actually readable

also I really feel like you are overstating the amount of scamming

[celest aspen]

just turn off ghosts

[minor tusk]

I wonder if you could accomplish the trade market chats with signs instead.

There's the obvious issue of character limit for those.

Perhaps a book?

I'm sure chat is the best option aside from the ghost glitch.

[haughty elbow]

what

[celest aspen]

u dont see ppl typing to tm if u have ghosts off

[haughty elbow]

you also wouldnt see anything

thats not a solution

[celest aspen]

its literally a solution

[teal wyvern]

??

[celest aspen]

not perfect, but by definition it solves the problem of chat being filled with "unidentified hero" and "electro ma" and "12 le"

[teal wyvern]

amplifier

[celest aspen]

no one has ever searched for an amp on tm.
wrong.
❌
📉

[haughty elbow]

the whole point of global chat is to be able to communicate with others who are in the same location but a different world-if you turn all ghosts off you stop the tm msgs but also any regular msgs as well

[celest aspen]

i have ghosts off anyway

[teal wyvern]

anyway i dont get why tm can't use signs like skyblock does

[celest aspen]

they’re annoying

[tender saddle]

i never knew that shit was public as i dont see them myself

[tender saddle]

When you brought up scamming i think its a good idea on increasing the amount of slots of stuff you can privately trade with a player so less situations of one player giving another player multiple stacks of emeralds without getting the item multiple times and only getting the item on the last trade. Although wynncraft players tend to be less of a scammer than random hsb guys but that can potentially be a problem.

[signal dragon]

this has always been the lamest scam ever

[tender saddle]

never happened to me but shit like this probably happened somewhere

[celest aspen]

you can always have a mod be a middleman

both parties give the items to the mod and they steal both the item and the money

[woeful jewel]

I think that’s what they do in hypixel sb

[minor tusk]

If you really wanted to avoid people being scammed in private trades, maybe you could have the emeralds not traded as items?

But that moves away from it being an actual item currency and towards it being HSB Coins but valued much higher comparing 1 coin to 1 emerald.

[woeful jewel]

100th message

[celest aspen]

101rd message

[woeful jewel]

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[late pelican]

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