Unpopular Lootrun Changes

[astral pumice]

Nerf equilibrium, Nerf Cleansing Ritual

Equilibrium Nerf Details

Equilibrium is the deciding factor when it comes to all players lootruns. No more! Equilibrium should offer boons but at 50% effectiveness for every curse. This helps balance the scales between curses and boons. For every curse one obtains, They will get a 50% boon.

Make equilibrium have a curse requirement of 6. Curses are easy to obtain and are offered early game, Make it so where Equilibrium requires a certain amount of curses before it can be offered as a mission option. This makes users have to strategize and plan out their runs more.

Cleansing Ritual Nerfs

Cleansing ritual is overpowered and can also be a deciding factor in a players lootrun. Let’s remove that. Make cleansing ritual do more but in a bad way. If a user has cleansing ritual, They should no longer obtain extra time for choosing and completing beacons. This forces users to grab green beacons making them a necessity when it comes to having cleansing ritual.

Cleansing ritual shouldn’t just cleanse a Curse, It should cleanse a boon aswell. Boons and Curses are like “offerings” so both should be cleansable. Therefore, Both boons and curses should get cleansed. The reason it should work this way is that in the name. It is a ritual. You should have to sacrifice good stuff and bad stuff in order to obtain these extra things. Just like how it works now, If the user has no curses, It will not add a challenge but if the user has no boons it will also not add a challenge. It requires the user to have both a boon and a curse for it to work.

[bitter wolf]

Wtf are you smoking?

Equilibrium idea is whatever but that cleansing ritual idea is abysmal.

Cleansing would go from an A tier boon to an active hinderance in your runs. It would also make Ultimate Sacrifice totally worthless.

[cold geode]

that cleaning ritual idea is pretty bad

thats not a nerf

thats just spitting on it and throwing it in the trash can

[lilac idol]

cleansing a boon is dumb but i agree with the time part of nerfing cleansing ritual. when i found out that it gives you missions AND time for each one as if they were from a white beacon and not a red one, it blew my mind

[cold geode]

cause there would be 0 purpose in taking it

[bitter wolf]

There'd be less than zero purpose to take it.

[cold geode]

true

you can get by in a lr without it

[bitter wolf]

It'd make your run actively worse.

[cold geode]

aqua boosted reds and whites

[lilac idol]

i think the idea is that cleansing + equal would give free missions for every curse and then cleans both the curse and the boon so you end up net neutral

[cold geode]

better than having to take greens and have your boons get removed alongside it

[lilac idol]

but again with the time nerf on top of that…. just take reds??

[cold geode]

ok what happens when you take just one then

you get fucked

🤯

[lilac idol]

bad things happen

[cold geode]

you shouldnt have to NEED both of them to make your run work

just to stay neutral

🤨

[bitter wolf]

Honestly I think cleansing is totally fine as is.

If you really have a problem with curse related missions I think Equi is the issue.

[short pond]

cleansing is fine, if anything the equilibrium nerf will make it so you cant just as easily take red beacons with ultimate sac, so there will be no way to get more challenges.

[tropic pelican]

I think current equilibrium and cleansing ritual are ass and awful from a gameplay standpoint and need changes. cleansing ritual proposal is literally worse than not taking it and im pretty sure equilibrium would still be capable of the same braindead gameplay, just to a lesser degree.
I really dont think either should exist and I think they should make the base game fun and engaging and playable enough where it feels like neither fit in with the hypothetically desired design philosophy.

[harsh cove]

Were y'all expecting someone with "morph enthusiast" in their name to cook?

[lilac idol]

true. how do u feel about just the time part of the nerf. imo that's actually fair

[gaunt vortex]

When will they add Mage Tower to Wynn?

[strong flame]

How many more lootrun-esk posts are gonna to be written my god

[narrow scroll]

esque

[idle vault]

…What the hell?

[tropic pelican]

its a good change

itd improve it

[lilac idol]

(would actually give greens a purpose)

[narrow scroll]

what do you think of reds?

[tropic pelican]

but i cba talking abt what potential nerfs there should be when the fact they exist to begin with is genuinely some of the worst game design ive ever interacted with, i still fully endorse removing both of them

[narrow scroll]

I think red is a very bad gamble early on

[tropic pelican]

actually thats a bit cynical, i think they could have some space to be in a good game, cleansing ritual in particular

[narrow scroll]

many people say those make runs without them look incredibly bad
and it promotes the idea of having to get optimal conditions fulfilled to get decent profits

[tropic pelican]

you can profit just fine off of shorter runs

and its more sustainable in terms of like, your mentality with the game

but i loathe that concept of purposely never interacting with the lategame of a piece of content just to save sanity

it should just like, be fun lmfao

[narrow scroll]

ability trees are like that in ways

[tropic pelican]

not rly but there is a fair amt of ignorable nodes ig

[narrow scroll]

it's a mystery as to why grape bomb can be taken as a sharpshooter

[tropic pelican]

grape bomb placement is super funny lmao

[narrow scroll]

what do you guys think of this
https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1234055996406763581

[lilac idol]

theyre really useful in those scenarios when u need just a few more challenges to try and string an aqua into white or like complete some task in order for your mission to activate

and of course, without cleansing ritual, they're how you get more missions

[narrow scroll]

I made the suggestions without ever considering potential impacts on the game economy
(I never cared about TM)

[narrow scroll]

I think red can only be reliably taken advantage of if you already have a bunch of time somehow or you can reliably get vibrant aqua vibrant green

[lilac idol]

i mean it doesnt really speak to anything about the gameplay of loot runs itself, just the reward system and how it should build up to a concrete reward so its not just rng

[tropic pelican]

why did he write this the same way someone would write an email laying off 20% of their employees

[lilac idol]

so... idk doesnt feel connected to the issues carrut has

[narrow scroll]

almost like im an empl-

[lilac idol]

tealy does this a lot

its a great bit

[tropic pelican]

it didnt come off funny it just came off annoying when i read it 😭

i guess i didnt read deep enough to tell how much irony there was tho

[lilac idol]

@tropic pelican #1218052310077280277 message

[narrow scroll]

I don't have the best relationship with RNG
The biggest gripe I have with the actual process and core gameplay of lootrun is that some arenas are small for no apparent issues and it doesn't help when they also involve spells that can drag the player around a lot

[lilac idol]

heavy pull and push great design

[tropic pelican]

i dont see that much push/pull i never saw that as an issue

i think mob speed and arrow storm are the biggest mob issues atm

[narrow scroll]

some abilities also become absolutely unviable to use when they would have been absolutely viable in many other cases (imagine having all your crep ray shots blocked by anticamp mobs)

[narrow scroll]

there's a defense challenge where I consistently struggle
I can be thrown into a random corner or out of the arena and right back into the center of the arena in an instant

[tropic pelican]

there was a run where i had to reset the ovine spire sheep 5 or more times cuz it kept running out of the arena away from the chest

[narrow scroll]

it was in this region

[narrow scroll]

I think the attacks can be quite unforgiving and the arena is too small

[tropic pelican]

its the place with the long fence

[narrow scroll]

you can try to circle strafe but you'd be practically staying in the same place

[tropic pelican]

but then theres a break in the fence where you enter but the mob speed is so fast as soon as the sheep sees you it runs towards you

which is uh, outside of the arena and permanently away from the chest

[narrow scroll]

seemingly unlimited walkspeed is just bad to begin with and reeks of the smell of major design oversights

it is probably worse if you ever face enemies that are already designed to be great pursuers and deal great melee damage

what's probably worse is losing focus as a sharpshooter in that one slay challenge in SE that involves a white dragon

[narrow scroll]

it can be incredibly difficult to ever recover when enemies are fast and you don't have fire creep
bryophyte roots are only useful for slower enemies

[lilac idol]

archer lr 😭

no wonder you're having a hard time

[narrow scroll]

I think being able to kill bosses with one spell (crep ray usage) is pretty funny

[narrow scroll]

You make it sound like that's a punishment
The game might be bad at that point

[drifting hedge]

Honestly like cleansing ritual isn’t as much of a run decider as equil it’s top tier mission yeah but it’s okay where it is atm.

[lilac idol]

i mean what's better:

1. get cleansing and take like blue blue aqua purple blue blue aqua purple, etc
2. get equil and take aqua red aqua green aqua purple, etc (or something like that)

u say equal is more of a "run decider" than cleansing but i'd argue both lead to acceptable 100 challenge lrs

its when u get both that u can just infinitely string aqua purple and get like 250+ pulls at the end

[narrow scroll]

true

what if they are mutually exclusive 😨

[little flint]

Dude, they like braindead purple beacon spam.
The chances of acceptance of this suggestion is minimal.

[narrow scroll]

I think that is going to hold back meaningful development

[narrow scroll]

#1234055996406763581 message
"Additionally, allowing players to consistently choose their own rewards from a shared pool could have significant impacts on the in-game economy, potentially leading to price fluctuations and devaluation of certain items."
It's really not a bad thing in my opinion. Who does it concern to have some items to be far cheaper than what they used to be?

[narrow scroll]

It's safe to say reactions are not going to be reflective of the quality of suggestions.

[woeful geyser]

first cleansing ritual nerf is fine; basically replaces purple with red, and you gotta take green.

second one is just outright horrible

[inner crescent]

those nerfs would make cleansing ritual less useful than stasis lol

[narrow scroll]

I think I never care about how "OP" lootrun can get
I only hate how bad lootrun can get
I don't know why anyone would propose a "nerf"

[prisma sparrow]

these mission rewards are literally the one thing allowing lootruns to feel “fun” (they’re still boring and slow but at least they aren’t painful)

i think there needs to be more mission rewards and that’s probably gonna be what happens over time

also maybe challenge limit could be lowered so that god runs aren’t a complete slog half the time (probably not something people would agree on)

[stoic fiber]

a more reasonable nerf to CR would be to make it instead consume a boon for +1 challenge and +1 pull, would make it synergize with the nerfed equilibrium too

[prisma sparrow]

i think lootruns need more buffs than nerfs but that might just be me

i don’t like that equilibrium and critual just remove the need to pick certain beacons but without their power, lootruns just feel painful to go through

so many things need to go right in order for a run to continue

[stoic fiber]

i disagree, shorter runs feel more rewarding to me cuz the most fun n exciting part for me is the lootbox at the end. think i would want more nerfs to the god run 100 challenge strategies n buffs to the quicker sacrifice runs n whatnot

as for core gameplay, there isn't really any urgency or surprise, like I'm just going to point a point b and like, things that are exciting are rainbows, good gray beacons, etc, i think more things that are rng heavy in-run would be nice, especially in god runs

so i think there needs to be things that spawn that make you feel lucky, things that give instant +1 end rewards that you just kill or pick up or whatever when moving beacon to beacon, that'd add more surprise and 'luck'

[prisma sparrow]

i agree that shorter runs are more fun because you have less time doing braindead beacon choices and more time doing missions

[stoic fiber]

yee all the meaningful choices happen at the beginning of the run

run out of grays and you're just running the motions

[prisma sparrow]

gambling beast is my favorite mission reward

[stoic fiber]

100% the same here, i prefer killing runs so i can start a new one

[drifting hedge]

its more like take aqua red aqua purple every like 8-10 challenges. between that spam aqua purple. equil runs will take a lot less time and give a lot more pulls by the end of it. its a lot riskier than cleansing but all in all equil runs are better than cleansing runs.

[lilac idol]

hmm i c

[whole estuary]

It's people like you who somehow end up getting ct then implement their shitass changes that literally not a single soul wants 🙏

[worn saffron]

These changes sure were unpopular

[waxen grove]

Nerf them indeed

https://tenor.com/view/fax-fax-my-brother-spit-yo-shit-spit-yo-spit-yo-shit-indeed-gif-507805022135946814

[whole estuary]

buff equi and cleansing spawnrate ong

they're too rare

[astral pumice]

make every run a god run ong, and make sure that every time you open the final chest; Wham! Guaranteed mythic!

[worn saffron]

But the mythic is just boots

And you can no longer get weapon mythics as they were deleted from the game

Salted is my Dad so I can confirm this is coming in Wynncraft 2.1

[harsh cove]

you sound like this has occured before

[worn saffron]

Because it has lol. I won’t name specific examples but I’ve seen some players with terrible ideas get onto CT