#Fewer invisible walls around mountains and such please

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

cyan basin
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There's a lot of really neat looking mountains and other interesting terrain to explore, but unfortunately, it seems like nearly every one of them has very strangely shaped invisible walls preventing you from exploring the top or going over them.

It doesn't seem to only be around quest-related locations and such either. For example, the town where you can get the Creeper mask (and several other masks with neat stats), the nearby mountains are absolutely riddled with weird, seemingly random, invisible walls preventing you from crossing the top of them. Not just near the wheat field for the related quest, but pretty much everywhere as far as I could tell. I felt my way around the invisible walls for quite a long ways, and I couldn't find any way over the top of any of the mountain rage, despite the vast majority of the tops being completely innocuous looking ordinary terrain. And since the town inside can be freely entered and left if you follow the chasms, it feels really weird that you aren't allowed to go over the top.

Another example is the mountains near the Gavel Gate home location. They're very nice looking, and I'd love to climb them, but there's just weird random invisible walls near the peaks, and they have very strange shapes as well.

I'm sure there's many more areas that are similarly blocked off as well, but I'm not very far into the game yet, and so those two are the main ones I've run into.

Given the neat mobility spells that the classes have, it seems really weird and disappointing to block off so much cool terrain that would be fun to explore and would give very nice views of the land. And while it's possible there might be some areas where technical reasons mean it's easier to wall them off, it looks very much like a lot of areas could be easily opened up without causing any problems.

Obviously, this is pretty low priority, but it would be nice if mountain tops and things like that could start being opened up as time permits.

robust sage
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agreed, this is especially prominent in the silent expanse

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there are a bunch of areas with cool builds that are totally blocked off

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i understand having borders at the edges of the map, but for places like the top of mount wynn or the buildings in SE? i don't get why they're blocked off

grave crag
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They seem to exist simply because the game master does not want you to pass through them
For example, if you built a maze, how would you feel if the players climbed the walls and headed straight for the goal

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Top of Mt. Wynn, I could see beyond the barrier block, the last place to visit in the quest to unlock the IP dungeon
It would be a bad idea to skip the gimmicks and break into these places
Even if the location really wasn't used, I dont think it should be possible to reach there for the story line

image.png
high axle
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Most barriers are there for a reason

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Idk what to tell you other than that

elfin furnace
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why are there barriers on the path to darkness near the portal to dern?

high axle
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Ss of the area?

elfin furnace
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the temple and this whole area on the left is completely inacessible

2024-04-14_17.08.47.png
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or whatever that building is

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but basically everything off the main path on either side there is barriered off

high axle
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I mean that's kinda how se is

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It's very linear, so there are more barriers restricting where you can go

elfin furnace
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but its not as if there are any quests or any reason for stuff past EO to be barriered

granite portal
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a LOT of barriers are stupid and should be removed yea like

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high effort post + I agree = ✅

high axle
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Look at the one for fallen delivery

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Idk why it's needed but it's there for quest reasons

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Also uh check pings

granite portal
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can be done with script instead of barriers im pretty sure

high axle
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But someone has to convert it to script first

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So it's there for a reason

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Until someone converts it

drowsy mauve
granite portal
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yea but there are many many places where you dont even need to replace it with anything

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like why are there barriers in pigman ravine

high axle
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For the quest area on top

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?

granite portal
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yea that part makes sense

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but there are also barriers in pigman ravine that havent got anything to do with the quest

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which im just confused why that is

robust sage
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quest stuff is totally understandable, but stuff like in se? it might be “linear” but that’s no excuse for having a bunch of builds blocked off when there are a bunch of caves and secret discoveries that are most definitely off the main path

robust sage
quasi vault
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There is 0 reason to barrier off Gavel from the sea. There are 3 easy to access entry points, and not being able to just roam around the mountain range is just silly

granite portal
vague epoch
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the hive also has barriers blocking access

cyan basin
# high axle Most barriers are there for a reason

(Appologies if this ends up being a duplicate message. Discord seems to have eaten the first one when I told it to send.)

From what I've seen of programming and game design, reasons are often more precautionary or time/effort expedient rather than being strictly necessary or ideal.

If anyone hasn't gone and poked around at the invisible walls (especially in mountaintops and such), they likely don't quite get the extent and oddity of them. So anyone who's interested in it, I'd encourage them to go poking around some mountains and such to get a feel for them. I'm currently using an Archer/Hunter with the grappling hook, and it's quite easy to find vast invisible walls that don't seem to be doing anything important, and which are shaped so strangely that they feel much more like a precautionary thing thrown together than any intentional blocking of something. So far I haven't found any mountain range that I can go over the top of at all, though it's possible there's some in areas I haven't explored yet.

I definitely understand being quite cautious with where players are allowed to go, as it's often easier to be overly-cautious up front rather than having to fix the damage an exploit or oversight causes afterwards. But I believe there's a lot of areas that could be opened up with little to no risk.

My main hope is that, as the designers have time/inclination, it would be nice if the invisible walls could be slowly pruned back over time. The server's been around for a good few years, and will hopefully be around for a good few more, so even some slow pruning every now and again could result in much more freedom to explore down the road. I tend to prefer exploration in games above most other things, and so far I've been thoroughly enjoying poking my nose around in every nook and cranny that catches my interest. So being more free to explore the nicely crafted world would be very nice.

robust sage
unreal plinth
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I agree with all this. The barriers are also notable on Mage because you really should be able to fly over them.

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Aside from the barriers for Fruma, SE, and certain quest areas (Mt Wynn peak for instance), there shouldn't be any. And I think Fruma and SE have valid in-lore reasons for a script wall ("a powerful magic keeps you from entering"), while places like Mt. Wynn should be accessible after their quests.

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More freedom please like

high axle
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things like fallen delivery and stuff can be removed with time im sure, it requires someone on ct to remake the quest using script for the barriers to not be needed tho. so itll happen eventually™️

quasi vault
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Agree 10000%

high axle
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a lot of the barriers are to prevent people form getting offmap though

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a lot more than you realize i think

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preventing people from seeing things that arent supposed to be seen

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getting places they shouldnt be able to get

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etc.

cold musk
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I hate barriers with a passion I have sense eco update when a lot of them were added I have also worked to remove them from lots of places on map, like the old grindspot barriers I hated those so much

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but the reason a lot of mountains have them is to prevent leaving the map

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Some places should be looked at being removed but even some of the high mountains not on the edge the reason there are barriers there is cuz u could get on the barrier roof iir

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I don't believe in adding barriers simply to make players go a certain way, that shit should only be done off map or in confined spaces. for the most part barriers on main map only exist to prevent players from glitching out of the map, and where they don't we should look at removing them

worn bear
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add barriers back on top of the green gloop hill, allowing players to traverse over it severely breaks map design
(yes, there used to be barriers on top of this, and yes, this is a joke)

image.png
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but yeah there's nothing quite as disappointing as looking around for secrets or stuff and bashing your head on an invisible wall, especially when sometimes decorations are placed behind barriers in inaccessible areas

unreal plinth
cyan basin
worn bear
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like, unless it's the edge of the map or skips quests, I don't think the vast majority of barriers are needed

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there's only like, a few places where it makes sense without either of those, such as being able to climb from time valley to troms, or perhaps the gavel-ocean mountains

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but like, the mountain wall between troms jungle and dernel jungle, or pigman ravines as an example, you probably could let players just climb over if they wanted to. the only downside I see is like, potentially having a bit more area to decorate (if that's even a bad thing), or "why can I climb over this mountain but not that mountain". which would maybe be more fair but it's not all that consistent to begin with

cold musk
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but with out stuff now they are not necessary at all

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and should be removed

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like ligit builders run into barrier walls on the build server all the time and they are just as annoying for us

worn bear
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yeah, like, that's a thing with the pigman ravines as an example. the brief cutscene area is part of the physical map which could be an issue (though I imagine the cutscene is triggered by you getting to the end of the cave anyway, not entering the area itself)

cold musk
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most barriers currently on the map are relics of their time and are working on being removed

worn bear
cold musk
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thoe removing them is harder than u would think sadly

unreal plinth
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Why?

cold musk
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our w.e program is very old and also script armorstands can be broken if u do a large world edit anywhere near them

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u cant just //replace barrier air

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it would break a bunch of script armorstand starts

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u need to be careful and work around them and mark out any armorstand that could be broken and make sure it isnt

worn bear
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I mean I can imagine removing them by hand is quite tedious yes, and like. some cases like the creeper infiltrarion cutscene might require special attention

unreal plinth
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Two questions, then:

  • What issues prevent updating the WE program?
  • Why can't you manually remove them?
worn bear
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I'm not super fussed about it nowadays, it was a lot worse with the grind spot barriers. but it would be nice to eventually be nearly barrier-free

cold musk
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if we remove them we have to use world edit and do it in sections and each section make sure scripts didnt break in that area

cold musk
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really the 2 main areas I see as issues are gavel wall and pigman ravine rn

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thoe I was told pigman ravine barriers are there to stop players from glitching out of the map somehow

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I really dont remember how

worn bear
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whomst knoweth. it'd be interesting to see less barriers for the gavel wall though, or have parts of the wall demolished like a bit around light forest already was

unreal plinth
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I thought they'd be, like, one-block-thick types.

worn bear
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though it's also one place where you could say it's for map design reasons to stop players from going to overleveled places
but then the jofash tunnel exists so shrug

cold musk
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no they are solid

cold musk
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they are not used to stop players from going to an overleveled area

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we use barriers to prevent glitching out of the map, cute scenes, and to prevent abuseable camping spots.

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the camping spots part now is really only used inside caves, raids, dungeons, or quest/ off map areas. putting them on map led to the grindspot bullshit

spring smelt
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can we remove some of the barriers between the cotl mountains and ocean

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surely that doesn’t take you off map

sudden furnace
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Remember old COTL barriers 💀

cold musk
spring smelt
unreal plinth
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can we remove all of the barriers between cotl mountains and ocean?

cold musk
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if it does get changed it probably wont be for 2.1 sadly

unreal plinth
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aw :(

agile tangle
agile tangle
cold musk
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its been the cause of many bugs that needed fixing in the past, it makes large changes that seem like they should be able to be done quickly take much longer than expected

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It should be fixed but it's not easy to fix cuz of the way our systems are setup

agile tangle
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huh

high axle
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tldr wynn jank

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:p

agile tangle
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yeah that seems like quite a significant flaw with world edit

cold musk
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I have many unkind words to say about the old dev who caused this bug and refused to listen to builders who told him this was a massive issue and his response was simply don't use world edit around script armorstands

agile tangle
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xD

cold musk
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it is a very significent flaw but cuz we have just gone on with it fixing it out is a lot more work

agile tangle
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mm that makes sense

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since this is an issue with the world edit program, and manually breaking the blocks does seem like an option (other than the time cost), have you guys considered using client based world edit like litematica, or having an ai like baritone break the blocks manually?

elfin furnace
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ig the same issue means you cant use the vanilla /fill either?

agile tangle
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is this related to how fishing nodes seem to use structure voids to mark their position, and world edit programs dont recognise the block?

cold musk
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wynns backend is fucked up and complex, adding new shit even client side wont necessarily work

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what we do is just use world edit is bits and then also have to go beack and manually check that no armorstands broke

agile tangle
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damn

cold musk
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its not like a normal like build server for example where its all just 1.16 or 1.20 bucket or whatever with some plugins

agile tangle
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yeah that makes sense

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so that means even manually breaking barriers could break the armorstands huh

cold musk
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you can't just download a new world edit program and use it

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no not manually that wouldnt mess it up

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like I said we just use w.e in small bits at a time and then go back and check

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its the fastest way to do it

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but it does increase time and increase possibilty for a bug happening

agile tangle
high axle
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hope i havnt broken any armorstands with my worldediting cause i didnt know that it broke script stands for a while

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surely its fine, its just barriers...

cold musk
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I mean people would notice if u did lol. I have broken armorstands in many places by mistake

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mostly I catch it before it gets pushed

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its just an annoying thing, it adds time to doing large world edit removal or changes that would seem easy at first. It's not worth doing by hand that would take more time than just checking for broken stands

agile tangle
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there are hacks that use break block packets but those are hacks

hollow cargo
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I wish Wynncraft would dedicate time to rewrite core systems as essential as this one but people really want content updates coming in not every five years

agile tangle
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maybe they'll have some time to sit back after fruma to do so

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what's the minimum version for wynn now? maybe we can raise the barrier roof higher

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the higher it is the harder it is for people to spell up there, and the less likely it is to affect regular gameplay

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it will take a longer amount of fly hacking as well, so bigger window to get caught

cold musk
# hollow cargo I wish Wynncraft would dedicate time to rewrite core systems as essential as thi...

ye its a balance and we don't have many devs for backend stuff. It's hard to get new ones too. Updating our build tools has been a thing we have wanted for a long time but stuff has just piled on over time with minecraft updates, and the wynncraft backend stuff that undoing that mess is something that ligit takes far more time than just coding new features.

It's kinda like a programing joke I saw where its like asking devs to add cool dragon that flys and shoots fireballs, that's easy and is done in a week. Ask them to add scarves and they need to rewrite half of the code and take 6 months of work.

unreal plinth
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I do think that after Fruma you guys should go through and fix the backend, even if it takes, like, three years. It seems like the best option to me.

high axle
high axle
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i think the profession backend has been redone recently tho which was nice

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("recently")

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(6+ months ago)

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(its what removed tick skipping and added 2 decimals onto prof nodes, when you move a little bit it cancels the node now, but overall good change)

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so some systems are getting updates

sudden furnace
steep summit
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What is the purpose of the krillion barriers in gavel-ocean mountain range

cold musk
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like u go between gavel, wynn, corkus

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thats not linear

steep summit
cold musk
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so forcing the 3 enterances into gavel doesnt make sense anymore

cold musk
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its leftover idea from 2015 that just hasnt been removed

steep summit
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Might be a good idea to get that figured out sometime soon

Another example I can think of in terms of annoying invis walls is at qira hive , you can only enter though the south (entrance?)

cold musk
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I mean yea I said ealier in the thread I am asking around to get it removed

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but it wont happen for 2.1

quasi vault
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also barriers around tna boss room should be removed

cold musk
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off map arenas should have all their barriers removed like

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I wanna see whats around the game

quasi vault
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the abyss beckons

agile tangle
# cold musk yes

or assuming greg doesnt fall off, the barrier wall could just be widened to be bigger than the arena platform

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then it actually feels like a platform because you can fall off or choose to spell around the side if u wanted to

quasi vault
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do they know

cold musk
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they do not

cold musk
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the arena is wider, if u go off the side u get hit by void winds and get pushed up and all over

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its not pushed yet

robust sage
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what that is so awesome

cold musk
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it also does some damage

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I dont want people using the void to camp the boss so it pushes u so far all over and back onto the platform that it is impossible to sit there, and does a slow % damage

agile tangle
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you can tell how much i play tna xD

cold musk
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well its not in game rn but will not be with 2.1 I already talked about it before

sudden furnace
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omg 2.1 feature leaked

cold musk
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lol sorry

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I meant will NOT BE

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not even joking sorry lol

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lmao sorry for getting ur hopes up