Replaying Wynn

[last jacinth]

Well I mean, it was quite impressive. I lost the cage opening minigame a few times, until I realized you have to left click (you right click to start it I think). The group of those Villager workers moving around was entertaining. That minecart section took a bit to get used to - a lot of lost attempts of getting my left and right clicks wrong. The digging section I did mesh with well - I have played MC for a very long time. I found all the secrets.

The intensifying atmosphere, disc 11 track playing, the maze-like layout, and worsening(?) nausea indicated that something would soon occur, so I turned the volume down slightly - also, it displayed a message that said something like "you feel a chill on your back". The canary only got a small reaction from me. That fight was silly, slightly questionable for it to have a unique health system, but I did like the sound that center beacon made. Quite nice overall

It asked me if I wanted to skip that minecart section after I was nearly done with it. Very rude

[languid shore]

Finding all the secrets on the first try is crazy

[coral bobcat]

me be like:

[quick horizon]

I like the minecart section a lot

[languid shore]

I like minecraft too

[quick horizon]

the mining section drags on too much i think

[forest maple]

If you don't go for secrets the mining section is pretty fast

[last jacinth]

It did add to the amount of time the minecart segment took with reaching the side paths, along with initially thinking I had to get out of the minecart to touch the papers

[last jacinth]

The last time I did that quest was the first version with the blindness and nausea. The vision-dizzying didn't impact me. Fortunately, this one is an overall upgrade, even if it is long, adding to the collection of long quests in close proximity to each other

[last jacinth]

These uhh deserter arbalest entities, in this deserter's refuge cave, do not seem to fire any projectiles despite holding a crossbow, and only do damage when I walk into them. They are stationary

I guess he ran out of ammunition

As I was killing mobs to open the chest, it plays the unlocking noise as I face away from it, even though I was only at 13/18 mobs and still locked. It also felt the need to play the blue model chest cutscene, even though it was only ~6 blocks away from the loot chest and the exit. Interesting cave all around

Unfortunately, this tempest ability causes slight bits of frame lag when used on mobs. Is there a way of controlling particle level besides the vanilla option (I have it on decreased)

[forest maple]

/pq low or none

[last jacinth]

Putting it on low appears to help. Yay. I did not know that command existed until now, but I did remember there being a particle-modifying option somewhere

[last jacinth]

The lost was pretty nice. That map given at the end is not easy to read

[last jacinth]

Desperate metal and mixed feelings had various moments of inconvenience to say the least

[last jacinth]

I am not too sure of the visuals of Thesead. Its specific design intentions are unknown to me, and the builds are nice on their own, but if this is characterized by being a coal town, it does not seem like one. Visually, it seems to be an overall summary of modern building practices as a whole - I.E. it does not seem to have a particular characteristic that makes it stick out. It also has a trade market?

If this is supposed to be a rich coal town, then this is preferences speaking at this point, but I would prefer a less-rich coal town

[last jacinth]

Cowfusion was OK. Did like the thematics/story of the older version more. Though I think it was the "walking through the pit" section that I wasn't too interested in. The rest of it was good otherwise

Water division time

Nevermind earth division is next I thought water was next

[last jacinth]

Cleared Earth division. Difficulty of the regular dudes was the same as the previous 2 divisions - maybe slightly easier?

Didn't die to Genesis. Most of it was confusion and chuckling to me getting lifted off the ground repeatedly. I think I saw him use heavy charge like once, so I tried to stay pretty close and be reactive as usual. It became apparent that the movement interference was an overall advantage, because I would hold space bar and be slightly above him, out of his range, charging when the position got bad. Moon uppercut also helped me super mario bounce on his head and still be above him.

Damage taken was usually in big chunks, 1/3-4 of my whole HP pool, but evasive action always helped. The timed finale was finished with 21 seconds remaining. I tried to proc a courage for a 10% damage boost, but he was at low-ish HP already, so I just got it over with. Easiest Hive boss so far? I'm not sure

It was fine overall. The movement-shaking thing seems like it would be annoying - for me it was kind of funny. I would probably prefer something more snappy than wowowowowow wiggling earthquake. The silverfish did make it a tiny bit cluttered for arena-percieving. The falling stuff/timer and the boss himself is already a sufficient hazard amount

[normal cedar]

Genesis is definitely hit or miss. He has more close-range attacks than charge, like explosion and meteor, but the intent was that the Genemorphs would kinda be the quick thing that fills in for his low speed and close range restriction

They kinda copy his combos with the charging, but when you "kill" them they become mobile arena traps, just exploding on a spot and occasionally re-shuffling location with charge

[last jacinth]

I see

[normal cedar]

he probably is one of the easier bosses but he at least feels tense

[viral locust]

Not sure if Genesis’ intention was to screw over fast-attacking builds but I guess bosses can discourage certain playstyles so I suppose that’s fine

From experience being in the air for most archetypes is pretty detrimental, especially when you have fair less horizontal mobility capabilities in a split second reaction

[normal cedar]

it's based on health lost, just like a lot of things in hive. how fast you attack has nothing to do with it- the real factor is how much damage you deal

[last jacinth]

I assume fast-attacking refers to high DPS, which would generally activate HP threshold abilities faster

[viral locust]

Yeah but if you deal a larger amount of damage in a single hit it’s not like the effect is going to stack with how many % you just shaved off

[last jacinth]

Is it even possible to skip those thresholds if your damage skips past the variable

[normal cedar]

they just happen all at once

it is fun to get a build with super rapid attacks but low damage so genesis just makes you fly

[last jacinth]

The build I used on him did have a good bit of rapid hits so that probably caused the floating

[viral locust]

@normal cedar You should bring back Oceanic Judge’s “hit him while in the middle of calling someone and he’ll punish you” mechanic

[last jacinth]

I can't lie. Those walking talking cutscenes with the worker, then Drale felt slightly reminiscent of out of my mind's walking talking section, and I don't say that as a good thing

[last jacinth]

Got to 90. That person was fortunately wrong about 70-90 slowing down. The pacing was good. Even in 82 where there was no new quest, I still had underworld crypt and caves

Oh my. Electro mage boots got stuck on my cursor as I exited my inventory, I tried to place it in the inventory, and I was gonna sell it, but it was not in my inventory, it was dropped on the ground. Fortunately, that is not an item I care about

[coral bobcat]

Think 'that person' was me. Anyway, I do think it'll get slower at 100 too.

[last jacinth]

DISCONNECTED WHILE IN FALLEN FACTORY AFTER THE PARKOUR

As I log in again, outside fallen factory entrance, 13 soul points remain, disconnected again, log back in, inside the ground, 11 soul points remain, /kill, back in corkus city, 9 soul points remain

I will be bringing skill pots to the next attempt. Empirically speaking, I exhibit harsh and brutal responses to wrongings

[normal cedar]

Like...room after the clock tower??

[last jacinth]

Specifically, the disconnection occurred in the combat room after the roof area, with that 1 guy elevating in. When I first logged back in, I was outside the whole dungeon, at the main entrance where I presume you respawn at if you die

The disconnection has been an occasional issue - happening in bursts, then not happening. I think this is the 3rd burst. Likely an issue on my side. I have not mentioned it until now, as it has not happened in more important scenarios until now

[normal cedar]

I don't know why it would have booted you out

[last jacinth]

My only guess is that I was still able to get damaged after disconnecting and died

Even though I am not trying to build for melee at all, I still seem to have ~5k melee DPS and keep killing regular mobs before I can use Courage on them. Tisaun's I-forgot-the-2nd-word appears to be a silly weapon

[languid shore]

the final fight is kinda difficult at-level, easy to get overwhelmed

doable tho

[last jacinth]

Is this referring to the boss, or the room with the guy elevating in there

[normal cedar]

Tisaun's Proof, must be

[last jacinth]

Yes. I have 2 tier 4 fire powders on it

[languid shore]

boss

but the pre-boss encounter is really tough too

🐶

[last jacinth]

Well, I have not reached there yet, due to unforeseen circumstances

[normal cedar]

yeah, the boss will for sure take a while. it's a Whole Thing

[last jacinth]

I guess it is fitting that this occurred in the place with the big computer guy

Hoping for no disconnects this time

[normal cedar]

also even though I do not have responsibility for it I apologize for the god-awful conveyor belt section

[languid shore]

i think its cool, kinda just hug a wall tho

[normal cedar]

it's objectively horrible

[languid shore]

how so?

[normal cedar]

it is quite literally not possible for certain builds. it is flat-out incompleteable in some instances

it was changed ostensibly to fix server lag and frame drops but we still get loads of complaints about it

the ways you get past the various obstacles aren't clear

a lot of the obstacles aren't dangerous but just annoyingly tight

[languid shore]

if its coz of the walk speed then yeah, but that argument sort of extends to most of the parkour so its ok

[normal cedar]

no idea what it was catching

the scrap-dropping segment is LITERALLY just random, there's no strategy to avoiding it cause of how fast the scrap falls and where it can fall, wall-hugging can still get you hit

[languid shore]

yeah i hate the last part too

[normal cedar]

the random boost pad off the conveyor makes zero sense, antikythera CLOSING THE INCINERATOR WHEN IT HAS YOU DEAD TO FUCKING RIGHTS MAKES EVEN LESS SENSE THAN THAT,

[languid shore]

i have talisman of the valley

[normal cedar]

basically the segment fixes roughly none of the complaints the old conveyor had except for frame drops, and even that's up in the air, while adding a whole host of new ones and completely breaking the atmosphere and characterization of the factory while it does

and I wasn't advised on it at all, otherwise it would not have gone ingame

[languid shore]

i havent even seen the previous one

what do the buttons in the elevator room after do?

like when u just exit an elevator there is a button

[normal cedar]

they're...labeled

[normal cedar]

old conveyor had a fire wall behind you that moved forward at a fixed pace, and three types of obstacles- a swinging hammer, a cutting sawblade, and a soldering arm, that would move down onto the belt and perform an area attack- additionally certain mobs would show up on the conveyor, so you had to balance moving forward past the firewall with dodging the obstacles- long as you were canny about it you could run forward as fast as possible.

it was jank cause it was done with a ton of cmd blocks and weird sensors which caused server lag but it felt active and dangerous cause getting hit by the obstacles didn't just tp you back and go "oops try again there slugger" they just straight up damaged you

[languid shore]

that sounds cool too if not for the lag

[languid shore]

yeah personality feels off, especially after playing portal. its like at a midpoint of two completely opposite personalities

old conveyor actually looks so cool, i jsut watched a vid

[languid shore]

what does emergency reboot of system actually mean

[normal cedar]

if you log out in the parkour the mechanisms stop moving which makes the clock tower unable to be completed

those buttons reactivate them

[languid shore]

oh fun

[last jacinth]

Finished fallen factory without disconnections. The boss room got dangerous at points when I was in the middle of many enemies and sometimes taking high damage from the final core part, but otherwise wasn't hard, just a matter of charging around. The skill pots ran out by the time I got to the boss.

In the parkour room, after pressing the button to make the elevator go up, it didn't move at first after standing in there for a second, so I went out, looked around to find my way, then see the elevator going up without me. Oops. I kept seeing this player fall through the holes in the wood floor before the first elevator. That last jump before the exit, I did not see if there's a possible direction to go movement spell-less

That conveyor belt was tolerable, it didn't annoy me, so that's nice. The flamethrower things at the start didn't go off. That long crusher seems to have a very tight window. I have +17% walk speed but it took a bit without movement spells. I feel like I only made it because the hit detection is janky

It was OK. A good degree of waiting around in various instances - mainly things like doors opening, the big stack things you climb up finishing building up. Keep in mind, I used to be a dedicated player of this server. The main things unfamiliar to me is everything changed in 2020 and beyond, doing boss altars/Hive at-level, raids, etc. Fallen factor was familiar besides the changes made to it

[languid shore]

did you kill or save Wynnston?

[last jacinth]

I am unaware of extra options. I just immediately eliminated the obstacle

[languid shore]

damn ur ruthless

Antikythera was right

[last jacinth]

I don't remember much about the old conveyor section, besides it being janky crap

[normal cedar]

old conveyor was jank, yeah, since it used cmds and weird hacky detection systems, but the new one is just worse overall

like, design-wise. if we had cleaned up the old conveyor to use the new script stuff it'd have been perfectly fine

[last jacinth]

I only slightly liked the buzz saw part

There's a higher chance I'll do the raids once everything else is cleared. I have the final build planned out, with 2 of the final items already worn, and it is fun, so I do want to use it a sufficient amount (not ever touching "guilds")

Just to be very sure, does Courage activate the stealing IDs on hit. It empirically does not seem that way, but I don't have a super high amount yet

[quick horizon]

should

it did in 1.20 at least i havent really played much in 2.0 though so idk

[languid shore]

"guilds"

[quick horizon]

hes got a point

[languid shore]

there is a limit on the stealing if that at all relevant to mention

[last jacinth]

What's the limit

[quick horizon]

how much you steal per hit is just dependant on your weapon's attack speed

[last jacinth]

Does it factor into the chance for the powder special Courage to steal

[quick horizon]

chance based stealing is gone

[languid shore]

5 ems per mob, so if u used courage on 'drained' mobs it would steal

[quick horizon]

pretty sure he was referring to life and mana steal

[last jacinth]

Yes

[languid shore]

oh lol

[quick horizon]

every hit procs stealing now in 2.0, its lowered depending on your attack speed, faster lower

one of the better things 2.0 reworked

[last jacinth]

I see

[quick horizon]

no more silly rng

[last jacinth]

Well, the HP regen is probably making the stealing hard to see as of currently

There is this blue "lootrun camp" in my content book now. Yesterday, I have interacted with the lootrun NPC in the Silverbull place out of curiosity

[languid shore]

nah it should be noticeable. if not, use a super slow attack weapon, and if u dont fully heal from a group of mobs prolly doesnt work

[coral bobcat]

The four Lootruns are in the Content Book, although I am unsure why. Don't worry about them. That's an endgame replayability thing - you have to clear all an area's caves to lootrun there, and you have to do a lot of lootruns before you unlock all the lootrunning content.

Reportedly, high-end lootrunners can spend around 4 hours on a single lootrun.

[forest maple]

a 100 challenge lr should not take more than 2 hours

[misty dune]

they show up to advertise that they exist

[coral bobcat]

Read it somewhere.

[forest maple]

and you can log out halfway through

[last jacinth]

All my candidates for final weapons are normal or very fast attack speed

[misty dune]

would be weird if the content book didnt show them to you just because you havent done all the caves needed. because who is going to do those caves if not trying to unlock the lootrun

[coral bobcat]

If you need XP you might do all the caves in an area.

I've exhausted Olux's since I refuse to send my Archer back to Wynn for a few levels until the Gavel content picks up again.

[last jacinth]

Always nice to quickly peek in a couple of this highly-populated discord's channels and see someone not very happy about things like the supreme evil (soul points), or very professional players, deeply embedded in their greatly memorized skill, subcommunities, and 3rd party mods, attempting to pass off the full package of this developed skill to brand new struggling players

Shit what I was gonna ask again. Now I don't remember

[viral locust]

My muscle memory has already made it so I always subconsciously click the ingredient pouch after I make any changes to my inventory

It’s a signifier for if the game is updated its end or not
If it opens the pouch, you know that the items you just moved will also be in the correct places you moved them to

It’s like a surefire check, just do that every time you alter your inventory

[viral locust]

Antikythera is a bit of a mystery sometimes

Sometimes I think I got my understanding of their character down but then like

It’s probably one of the only ones which cast this much doubt in me

I gotta be honest I still don’t see GLaDOS

[viral locust]

I swear to god if FF Wynnston still looks like that

Feel like I’m angrier than Selvut about it sometimes

[languid shore]

my first time round it looked like a normal dog, it was so fucked up

how do u even get a key inside that

[viral locust]

…it eats it?

[languid shore]

you could perhaps use Agave if you dont care about main attack but want to mana steal

[languid shore]

i believe it was more gruesome

[last jacinth]

Unconcerned of dog visual flair

[quick horizon]

what lol

[coral bobcat]

No, I'm pretty sure that Antikythera directly states that the key fell in Wynnston's food by accident, unless FF has updated since I last played it.

[normal cedar]

yeah antikythera says the key got dropped in his food on accident. obvs it's a setup since wynnston is a robot dog, but still

[coral bobcat]

So Wynnston's model has been changed.

That's good. When he was just a dog, he seemed to be a normal, biological entity.

Wynnston being a machine works, I suppose. Wonder if I should rerun Fallen Factory, but it's not that big of a change.

Corrupted Fallen Factory when (Fruma??)

[full sequoia]

pretty sure its supposed to be a basic dog

it becoming the model thats the pet wasnt intended iirc?

[normal cedar]

it is supposed to be the basic dog cause you're not supposed to realize it's a robot til after you kill him

[coral bobcat]

How would you figure out Wynnston was a robot after killing him?

(keep misspelling as wynnstone)

[normal cedar]

He makes clanky noises when he dies.

[last jacinth]

Beat Geyser pit. No deaths. It seems moon uppercut was advantageous, though I still did take big chunks of damage at times from the explode guys. Was a matter of sticking to spots a bit away from the lava underneath, staying close to him, moon uppercutting at the right times, and positioning for heavy charge/multihit in the usual ways. In his final phase, I did the same thing but used war scream more often due to his higher range via flamethrower

After beating it, I had this urge to do it again, this time trying a bit harder to stay on the gray glass, and playing the reactive I hate spelling this word exercise of only getting out of that area when the explode guys showed up. I already knew his patterns, so it was a bit easier than last time

It took me a bit to realize he was in an invincible phase until my eyes looked up to see the extra digits, but I feel a higher than normal amount of enjoyability after Tera-4m mining mech

[muted peak]

how do i break this to you

(this is from jan 2024 after it was changed back from the regular wolf. i have no idea why they changed it back to the robodog aside from model flexing. if the robodog must stay then idk maybe do a death cutscene where the actual dog disguise becomes the robodog and then the key drops)

i am legitimately sorry for ruining your day with this revelation (imo it should instead be the minecraft dog instead of a regular wolf but it shouldnt be the pet hence the reasons above)

[last jacinth]

These level 90 caves in Corkus appear to have more loot chests than usual. In Geodesic, it took a bit to find the blue model chest. The one time the cutscene would help, it did not occur

Apparently, this pirate lattice is notorious, but I didn't really see the big deal at all, besides it being more unusual than usual

[normal cedar]

It's been nerfed a ton of times. The main deal with it is it's full of annoying flying and ranged enemies over holes- I think checkpoints were added where you fall, but you used to be sent back to the beginning of the cave no matter what

[last jacinth]

I fell a few times, but it blasts me back up with an explosion noise and a bit of damage taken

Though the KB immunity ability probably helps quite a bit

[normal cedar]

Oh, that's what it does now

I guess even the checkpoints got replaced

oh yeah running through this now there is like 5x the amount of floor as well

way more walls, way more floor, way less mobs

that, and the last chest got split off onto a separate "cave"

[last jacinth]

It sounded funny

[normal cedar]

that's like if the EO parkour looked like this

[last jacinth]

Fantastic voyage was pretty good. It is certainly different since the last time I touched it in like 2016-2017

I gave the parrot the seeds. The profession trees on the gateway island were very funky. They were either missing many blocks, or were invisible entirely

[last jacinth]

Mystery

[last jacinth]

I had another experience in the feathers fly part 1. It was when the shopkeeper closed his shop, and the house-surrounding hostile mobs were showcased. I think it overlapped with itself, because it kept showcasing scene to scene more than once in a loop, with repeated dialogue. Then my character had another attack, and I got repeatedly pushed back by unknown forces. After that, I was stuck in a small area; moving in a direction would have me be pushed back, and the "ava" character told me to talk to them in various ways, but they were nowhere to be found. Fortunately, /class made the NPC visible

It was a nice quest otherwise. The game took me to the chief hut by itself with the "travelling..." cutscene. When she lifted me up in the air I saw the model and I said what the fuck that looks weird, and I was in the air, but then I saw the little thing being held and I said oh it's like a little fucking magnet she's holding. Also, after the workshop segment, she said she would be a shortcut to her workshop again, and that the workshop was south from here, but the ava NPC was not there, and the workshop was northwest from there, so I went back there on my own

I got some Uth runes to use for powder exchange. One of the Uth variants had these guys with what looked like Kyogre for a head spray projectiles really, really fast, and the boss that came after was this guy that spammed heavy teleport frequently. My screen was flashing between blind and not blind while projectiles hit me very fast. Fortunately, it was not hard. I have a good amount of water defense and 70 points in the Defense skill stat, because I would be very unhappy otherwise

[normal cedar]

Uth altars were designed in mind to have a partner with you. They're more than soloable, but you're meant to have backup

[last jacinth]

I have done it 4 times. the difficulty felt about the same as other level ~85-90 stuff that has been done, but that variant did stick out for the annoyance factor

Oh shit I'm level 92 now. I can use one of my final weapons - Bedruthan (rhythm of the seasons will probably be a secondary)

[viral locust]

Wait, what?

[languid shore]

Props to devs for keeping that buggy a section in just so we can have racism in wynncraft

all 3 of my playthroughs of that quest were like that

[coral bobcat]

Really? I've never had issues with bugs in TFF.

[last jacinth]

Well this is unexpected. I didn't know this queue to join the server even existed

Oh I just looked at the wynncraft channel. I guess I'm not alone

[coral bobcat]

The queue happens very rarely.

OH GOD. Thankfully it's dropping fast.

[last jacinth]

Alright looks like we're good again. Water division time

[last jacinth]

Beat Water division. Slightly harder regular enemies. It seems that faint memory of people talking about Oceanic judge's ability was outdated. Oceanic judge got me the closest to the gameplay-stopping danger zone of 5 soul points yet (beat him at 6-7 I think)

It seems Moon uppercut was advantageous, but there was a great number of mis-inputs and mis-scrolling to the wrong hotbar trying to use the HP pot during intense moments.
Quickly found out the blue dancing waves can also hit you high up. When they appeared, I made to sure to move to center quickly, so they were no longer a threat, stayed away from the walls. There were moments where it was better to go above the waves, and moments where it was better to just run around. I considered charging through the waves, as taking a single hit from it seemed better than his projectiles, but it wasn't too practical

Something I only realized right at the end, is that it seems better to just run up to him and do uppercut when he does his big spell combo with all the waves, rather than risk mis-inputs at farther distances

[normal cedar]

Yeah. I'm still not satisfied with the Judge- I want him to be able to do more. The "dancing waves" also need remodeling or re-spriting so it's clear they hit all the way to the ceiling, as they're meant to be like, swirling typhoons but everyone kept telling me that the models shown were the best we could really get.

And yeah- he DID have a counterattacking ability which would force you to disengage for about 4-5 seconds that he could pull out with some telegraphing in the beta where these spells were first introduced, but that got removed due to things like poison, thorns, reflection, and lingering effects such as Flaming Uppercut, the Hound, and quite a lot of other examples. With the counterattack, we could only detect if he took damage at all rather than how much was dealt, which meant a lot of incidental accidental hits would just trigger it unavoidably.

So unlike the other hive bosses who have multiple spells, he just has...Typhoon(20s delay), Typhoon(17s delay), Typhoon(14s delay), and Triple Typhoon.

[last jacinth]

The multiple deaths had me to the hasty reaction of buying Dragulj Boots to use over Phage pins. Don't know if it made a difference, but the winning attempt occurred after using those boots, so maybe. Near the end, when he was on ~30k HP, I went into full panic autopilot, super tunnelvisioned at my hotbar, spamming war scream/uppercut. I don't 100% know what happened there, but I was surprised I killed him there

The main thing I didn't like was that the particle made it hard to tell where it was dangerous, or if the particle was associated with wave or the special attack, but it was alright otherwise. I was prepared to see what I thought of that counterattacking ability, until I saw it was something else

[normal cedar]

Yeah, he had the counterattacks, which always had a 20 second gap, and the continually-quickening typhoons. Once he hit his last stretch and started using triple-typhoons he would only ever do that, as well- that's HIS panic-mode.

[viral locust]

I wanted to follow a response up with a joke of how a certain other Hive boss doesn’t account for uncontrollable player damage but it’s been like a whole day since I asked about Oceanic Judge’s removed mechanic I don’t have the mental capacity to make any jokes rn

[last jacinth]

Alright phage pins, you've done a good job, but now it's time to use silt of the seafloor until Gaea boots

[viral locust]

Also I guess Oceanic Judge is a single hit while Solar and Genesis are just across their health bars

Summoner still getting screwed though

[last jacinth]

Dwarves and doguns 1 had hoppers in it, and was janky with the dialog system at certain points. That section with the 4 dwarven heroes, the buttons that open their tombs seemingly did not work, but /class fixed it

[glossy tiger]

That's still not changed?

D&D really is a relic of its time...
Despite the fact that I think it was a bit after 1.18 where they tried to remove hoppers

[last jacinth]

If it's a relic of its time, Wynnexcavation and temple of legends must be pre-history

[quick horizon]

its true

[last jacinth]

Yes, it was a bit unpolished overall. Notably, that segment where you first arrive in the upper heights, Axelus said something, but that dialogue vanishes in 0.3 seconds after I moved a bit. I go to the Dogun village, it says I need the dragon bone, I look for Axelus, the dialogue triggers again, but is again only present for 0.3 seconds because I moved, I carefully move around some more, and I finally find the right spot

[quick horizon]

it is a bit dated but generally I think it’s fine especially in comparison to a lot of older content

[last jacinth]

Nooooo -4% walk speed anything but that

[last jacinth]

This segment in dwarves and doguns 2 with the rusty pickaxe breaking blocks appears to have the nastiest interaction hit detection yet. I've broken some blocks after lots of messing around, but further progress has not been made. Trust me, I've been making sure to click anywhere I can

Nevermind we're good

[last jacinth]

I thought I found another nasty one right after that - I was unable to right click to get the TNT in the destroy-weapons-in-armory section. After multiple failed attempts, /class fixed it.

Anyway, Feathers fly part 2 was nice. The big plant entities propelling you upward per-hit is funny. Tempest, cyclone, and the uppercut fire DoT makes you go up fast. Also for some reason, after getting up top on the big plant's 2nd life, it lost all of its remaining HP and the section was complete - the 3rd life did not occur

[viral locust]

Oh yeah that bug occurred to me in every run of TFF2 as well

Instead of reporting said bug I think I just kinda forgot about it after I completed the quest

Sorry lol

[coral bobcat]

I haven't run into this odd glitch.

[last jacinth]

The offmap fence/wall returns

[last jacinth]

Dwarves and doguns the whole line. Besides the above average jankiness, it also seemed to have a bit of padding, more of a micropadding kind. Just the number of sections that need you to stop and do a thing, or sections that go on longer than they should (like that segment when you're outside the armory, you see 2 dwarves you have to take out, and suddenly it's actually a lot of them with 4 generals you have to kill that appear one after another slowly, or having to make the fire resist amulet, then go to enchant it), start to add up over the source of all of the quests.

Even the big 5-quest realm of light stuff felt more refined, though I am unsure if I am misaimed with this sensation. It has a lot of steps to it. Fine otherwise. It's at this strange midway between modern and old

I like the big silly exit sign in the cave of doom cave

[last jacinth]

As I log in, below the "welcome to wynncraft" chat header, there's a line of text linking the wynncraft reddit saying it's where to "find the latest memes". Very strange attempt to have me go there, but alright

[coral bobcat]

odd

[last jacinth]

I just saw someone trade market searching for cumulonimbus (I'm pretty sure they are, they are right next to the NPC), but the first 3 letters were asterisks. I think I can guess why

[coral bobcat]

HA!

[misty dune]

wtf

[coral bobcat]

I was going to name it. Overzealous censors getting triggered on innocent things.

Naturally, overzealous censor got triggered.

[normal cedar]

clbuttic censorship problems

[last jacinth]

Beat aerie of the recluse. I am surprised at the most incorrect presumption I've made yet, because I thought it was gonna be way, way harder, but I first tried it with -4% walk speed and negative thunder/air defense. It has more than 1 dude, and I thought that was gonna be a big hard part, but I was surprisingly clearly minded - even if there was a lot of charging around at first.

I wanted to make sure I fully understood what just happened, and to check if I wasn't super lucky, so I went back and got more shells to do it a 2nd time. I beat it again, and found it easier, fully knowing their patterns this time - ~13-14 HP pots were drank instead of 26 that time. It is a challenge, but I surprisingly meshed well with it

Out of the 2, Adamastor was the overall bigger threat. At first, I focused on Urdar, then only focused on Adamastor, but this made it take a while, so I tried always damaging the 2 at the same time, while trying to not make both an immediate threat - moon uppercutting Adamastor with me while Urdar is stuck on the ground (Adamastor seems to have a cooldown on taking KB?), running around Adamastor and short-term tolerating Urdar - the multihit was the least harmful attack overall, or just charging around doing chip damage with war scream

Fortunately, the Corkus boss altars were very solid overall. I must think that, considering I immediately went back to do them a 2nd time each

Damn there's only 2 boss altars left 4 and 6 levels away

I have 2017-2018 memories of dealing with one of them, but I have not touched the other yet, even if I am aware of Panic zealot's iconic mechanic

[last jacinth]

Oooooh another armor stand NPC cutscene in 1000 meters under

[viral locust]

The only place I’ve seen that exact word is from Tom Scott regarding the same issue so I’m going to assume you watch him

[normal cedar]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Sc*nthorpeProblem
Replace the * with a u.

and even before I knew about tvtropes I knew about this

heck, I had an issue with a teacher at one point looking over my shoulder at me starting to write "assume" and getting on my case

ironically enough

[last jacinth]

These photophobic devourer mobs in the void (the dude with the big purple mouth head) have the most interesting death noise so far

Oh shit it's fire division time

[last jacinth]

Uhhhhhh, the guy in fire division room 9 did kill me once, but I just first tried solar vanguard

[normal cedar]

Figured it wouldn't be as tough as people made it out to be

you actually are paying attention to what enemies do

[last jacinth]

He did get scary, slightly scarier than Genesis? I'm not sure, I was pretty calm

In first phase, I just stuck close to him, only moving fast and war screaming from afar when he did flamethrower or when the big stove circles started to light up

In second phase, same strategy, I stayed farther away on average, but you know how I deal with heavy charge by now, and just being more proactive with moving from stove circle to circle. It got hectic, but I did stay under control. I never went all weird and autopilot like with oceanic judge. I'm not even hyper built for fire defense. 147 fire defense, 80 defense, good HP regen

Nice fight overall

[normal cedar]

yeah. a lot of people complain cause they try and burst him down, and the lava geyser things that mdae him speak up are triggered based on health, and stack

so they just casually knock him down for almost all his health bar and whoops now there's 39 geysers on the field

paying so much attention to their instakill strategy that they forget to pay attention to the BOSS ITSELF

[last jacinth]

I could see the annoyance of the stoves going off superfast if you didn't know why that occurred, but I still see what you mean. I thought the only HP thing was that other special attack he has with the moving fire things. The stoves seemed more timer based empirically during the fight

[normal cedar]

yeah, he has the Searing Ground, which is the rotating burning areas that speed up upon reaching his 2nd form and double up when his 2nd form hits half health, and then the Magma Geysers which were the giant damaging pillars that sprayed blocks out- which do you mean by the "stoves"?

[last jacinth]

Yes

[viral locust]

Hi back

[normal cedar]

...uh

[last jacinth]

That's not my name

[normal cedar]

run that one by me again- WHICH do you mean?

[viral locust]

I still must say that Cruuk might be one of the few sole exceptions to this whole “noticing” thing

Specifically for things in the hive

[last jacinth]

The 4 things that cover each quarter of the arena, that light up with an orange circle and damage you. That's what I called the stoves

[viral locust]

Because I can still say from experience that the more egregious suspects like the clone trigger and smoke circles are still very much lost on 95% of the population

As in, 95% of people who don’t already know about said mechanics beforehand

[normal cedar]

Okay, yeah, that's Searing Ground and that is timer-based

[viral locust]

Don’t ask me about who the 5% are
Asides from Cruuk I have not met a single person in existence who figured out Psychomancer’s cloning on their own
I’m just giving it 5% because I trust that there’s some other people out there

[normal cedar]

the other things, the block-spewing geysers- that's what people kvetch over, and that's what's health-based

[viral locust]

The geyser attack Solar Vanguard is becomes fairly trivial to deal with once you actually know why they appear

But, I must still stress the results of the feedback
There is still a very good reason why this number of people regard Solar as more difficult than Qira

[last jacinth]

From experience, there are things I am very, extremely adaptive to, and things that can catch me by surprise and make me make crazy surprised noises

[viral locust]

Anyways yeah the whole Solar Vanguard and Psychomancer clone thing isn’t really too much of a big deal in terms of fixing priority, but at least it’s been made aware of ahead of time

[last jacinth]

Yes I'm aware, I'll talk about it when I fully complete Hive or something

[viral locust]

||And by ahead of time I literally mean when I wrote an essay on them literally during the beta test when they were first added||
||I am not petty I am not petty I am not petty I am not a salty person||

I’m kidding okay I’ll leave now lmao
Things to do

[normal cedar]

[last jacinth]

Qira will be a bit. I want to do a couple silent expanse stuff first once I reach 100, and just have my build complete (besides Gaea hewn boots)

[river pecan]

i think part of the issue is that majority of players have not replayed the game in a long time, or joined the server early on and so stuck with bad habits

earlier bosses were not nearly as easy to read so i know i am guilty of treating new enemies like old school bosses and just ignoring the tells

[viral locust]

Ok hi back things done

[viral locust]

Not a valid excuse

Bosses are different and attacks would certainly be different

What’s more important is not whether the player is familiar to a specific mechanic, but rather what that point is a subset of, which is how recognizable an attack’s functions are to a player in the first place

[river pecan]

oh i'm not excusing the boss mechanics, i'm excusing the playerbase for not attempting to read boss telegraphs

[viral locust]

Psychomancer’s Clones, for one, are a good example

The utilization of the crosshair is not something that is ever done in Wynncraft until that point in the boss fight

The issue is less of the attack itself and more of the terrible execution of said attack’s mechanic’s readability

…by which, there are none

[last jacinth]

I'll bring this up again later, but due to soul points, I think some players get partially de-incentivized to take time to observe patterns, and thus put heavy weight into making sure this attempt is a winning one, as death as a learning tool is ignored when a gameplay-stopping risk is involved

[viral locust]

And no, “triggering the attack to find out how the attack is triggered” is not a part of this

Never ever use that as a point

[river pecan]

its interesting that in wynncraft, playing aggressively is the playerbase's response to high stakes conditions (soul points, supposedly)

ask any other playerbase and experienced players would be way more passive and careful

[viral locust]

If an attack as significant as the clones exists and how it’s triggered (and by extension, avoided) is not already apparent before the player is even victim of said attack, you gotta rethink of how you present it to the player

Because it’s so obscure that players who have already been caught in the clones attack several times aren’t even aware of how they get damaged and blinded by them

Literally almost no one will even consider the crosshair because that’s not something that has ever been used in the eighty levels below them
It’s not a natural thought that forms in their mind

Just like, one dialogue of Psychomancer goading the player to stare directly at them or something would be great for this

The bare minimum and an absolute bandaid solution, sure, but still great compared to what we have now and also the least time-consuming

[last jacinth]

Even I got passively affected by paranoia of the consequence when I bought those unique boots to use over phage pins in Thanos, as a kneejerk reaction of getting a bit close to the 5 soul point zone and wanting to get oceanic judge over with

[valid mica]

wait the clones trigger when you look at them? i just powered through them

i always knew the hive bosses have some different mechanics to regular boss fights but never bothered to study them

[last jacinth]

Humorous post

[coral bobcat]

Why can't Soul Points just be removed?

Is the CT waiting until a better concept pops up to replace them? Or is there some coding reason why it's hard?

[last jacinth]

Current build is Fenmask/Azurite/Elder oak roots/silt of the sea floor
Hellion/Hellion/Dragon eye bracelet/Drain
Bedruthan with 1 earth 6 powder and 2 fire 6 powders

[last jacinth]

Don't like recipe for disaster's structure. It is effectively 3 quests in 1, but are mutually exclusive between each other. On top of that, one of these options is thematically the "correct" answer (though it seems the rewards have different uses?). And also on top of that, the "correct" answer has more to its recipe-obtaining than the others; reading the wiki, the "incorrect" answers seem to involve more simple tasks than the correct answer having a whole little sub-area.

I think this has the most missable content out of any quest? Strange all around. It's also a quest near the endgame

[quick horizon]

there isnt really a "correct" answer, the intention is the different rewards to be equal but some are considered more applicable than the others

although not knowing which gives which before you get the reward without using the wiki is bad

[last jacinth]

It's nice that the items aren't better than one another, but yes this is referring to the gameplay of the quest itself. There are small hints with the dialogue of the options, but my point still stands

[quick horizon]

chef hamsey's apron was generally considered the best option in 1.20 i believe? but idk if thats changed in 2.0

oh i thought you were talking about the rewards and not the gameplay honestly

been a while since ive done the quest so i dont really remember if any of the chefs' ingredients were any significantly easier than the other to obtain

personally i like the gameplay for what is essentially a glorified fetch quest and that there are different roads for repeat playthroughs but thats a difference in viewpoints probably

[last jacinth]

Don't know of the difficulty difference, but it is still missable, mutually exclusive activities, some decently sized

[quick horizon]

well to my knowledge you can still do each of the individual activities regardless of the quest

just that only some will be required depending on which chef you choose

so i dont really consider it to be harmful since they arent fully locked away from you excluding the rewards

[last jacinth]

When I first did the quest back in 2017 or so, I did one of the "wrong" answers. At a later point, when I would roam around sky islands trying to find stuff, I found that moon sub-area, and was confused as shit. Didn't see people talk about it before, so I really though I found some unknown secret at the time

[quick horizon]

im confused on what you mean by "wrong" and "correct" choices if it wasnt in reference in either to the rewards or difficulty of the paths

[last jacinth]

The thematics of chef hamsey liking the dish or not, along with how the other choices seem more simpler - I think the other two choices share an item while the "correct" one has activities solely exclusive to it

[quick horizon]

hmm i was under the impression that chef hamsey had the same/similar dialogue for all 3 paths but i guess i was wrong after checking the wiki

well still i dont think it's that bad and is cool that they have mildly different endings but i guess thats just all opinion

the "correct" path is the one i usually picked in my playthroughs so i guess thats why i didnt remember

[last jacinth]

Oh I forgot to mention, but the music track for Death's mansion played when I entered the room that solar vanguard was in, which was funny

[river pecan]

brie and kale share snail slime as an ingredient, and kale and frank share blue ring grook egg

additionally, moonsalt, talking mushroom and skyhigh raspberry all have special areas or interactions, and blue ring grook egg has a challenge preceded by a cutscene of sorts

[last jacinth]

Ah nice, mirror cave is still here

[last jacinth]

This breaking point quest requires completing the thanos depository, dwarves and doguns part 4, and the envoy part 2. God damn, this must be the fucking shit

[coral bobcat]

i randomly encountered brge once

can you kill the grook mob? or are they like olux PD locusts?

[forest maple]

You can kill them though they don't drop anything

Not even xp

[coral bobcat]

do the grooks come back

[coral bobcat]

did you kill it

[last jacinth]

Yes

Forgot to mention it, but just earlier, I also saw it in sky islands - the first corrupted dungeon guardian I've seen this playthrough. It did a lot of damage, I attacked it, but it was suddenly gone as I looked away. I think I knocked it down the void. But here it was again soon after, in that image

New barrier bumped into

[last jacinth]

Damn that was long. Pretty good. The grappling hook was random - maybe it'll appear in the raid, I don't know. The dudes outside Rodoroc, I couldn't interact with them at first, but /class has been the ultimate fixer for these. This is the 2nd time I see a mob that can dig underground - the first dude was in the swamp. It's cool and all, but please do not give these things HP regen

I'm saving those raids as the absolute last thing. I'm anticipating to see that I think of them, furthered by the bystander observations I've made here in the past couple years. I'm saying this with a too-large grin

[quick horizon]

(spoilers, it wont reappear)

[quick horizon]

mob hp regen has been nearly entirely phased out by now i think

was just a bad mechanic that extended fights and or made certain enemies unkillable if you physically did not have the dps to overcome it

i think some sparing mobs still have it in that its their primary gimmick but its not really commonplace anymore

im not sure youll think too highly of raids really

i think mob hp regen may have even been gutted in 1.19...? im not sure

[last jacinth]

I'm gonna be upfront, I fully expect the worst. But I want to see, so that I am definitive

[quick horizon]

if not by 1.19 then definitely in 1.20

[last jacinth]

HP regen is still on most non-boss mobs it seems

[quick horizon]

might be mob heal spell which is pretty common

[last jacinth]

The other dude with a digging ability wasn't considered a boss, and didn't have super high stats, but even with adequate equipment, I almost got DPS-checked

That naga cave with the guy that digs is pretty cool. It would be cooler if he didn't have as much HP regen. It took a bit to kill him. You cannot damage him when he is in the ground

Mobs with heal spell were not identified in that cave as far as I remember

[quick horizon]

might be somewhat common on basic mobs but as far as i know youll pretty much never see it on a boss

i think the only exception is one of skien's phases in the dernel jungle altar

dont expect wynn raids to be like raids in any other game but i feel like you probably know this already

all things considered theyre pretty bite sized

[last jacinth]

I have never fully engaged in PvE multiplayer-required high-end content, especially the concept of MMO raids. I guess the only exceptions are like TF2 MvM a few times, and Bob when he first released. Other things like DRG are optional with multiplayer

[quick horizon]

ive never really played any other true mmos let alone raids either so i dont really know what to go off of as to what wynn raids should be like but just as far as i know theyre pretty basic in comparison

ive personally played a ton of wynn raids, theres a bit of good, a lot of bad, and but mostly just a lot of mid

if you enjoy wynn dungeons then generally youd probably at least like the core concepts behind raids

[last jacinth]

Silly question, but when the displayed sign says "player req: number", it does actually refer to actually requiring that number of players, yes?

[quick horizon]

yes

nol is the only raid where it can be variable though, being minimum 4 to up to 6 players

just because it was in a really awkward position in 1.20 where it was intended to be an endgame raid but also immediately accessible by level 79 players

but its been tuned down a bit in 2.0 to accomodate more of the level 80 range instead of endgame

[last jacinth]

I see. Once that time comes, I will probably ask assistance of people who have commented in this thread that seem nice. Absolute refusal to interact with unfamiliar randos. Fortunately, at worse, I solved a puzzle with one in the same server world in heart of llevigar who did not speak

[quick horizon]

most people have their own opinions on raids and the direction they should go so im not really sure what youll think either

[viral locust]

Sorry for butting in but I wanted to hear your thoughts about mobs having the capability to heal themselves but also the ability for players to prevent it

[quick horizon]

i dont think i have any particularly strong opinions on that

[viral locust]

I really shouldn’t be talking about the map again but the only boss that can heal himself in HS is healed via a separate invincible mob that follows him

Said mob has a clear telegraph on when it’ll heal the boss, and while the heal spell restores a large chunk of his healthbar the player is able to knock the mob away

[quick horizon]

if youre referring to pure mob regen then id say we should keep it in the past

[viral locust]

Well, pure mob regen could work in very specific situations

I’m sure there’s a valid use case for it somewhere
Just needs the right environment
Probably

[last jacinth]

Who is HS

[quick horizon]

but if youre just referring to heal spell then generally most applications of it in game are pretty reasonable so adding an interrupt seems rather unnecessary

[viral locust]

Don’t worry about it

[quick horizon]

if you want to make a mob whose primary gimmick is healing that can be interrupted then go for it

[viral locust]

Fanmade Adventure Map started in 1.12.2, 1.12.2 too difficult to develop in ended up scrapping 1.12.2 version

That’s all you need to know

[viral locust]

Nice

[viral locust]

Well, if you happen to do this during the weekends I would be 100% happy to be a second party member

Absolute refusal to interact with unfamiliar randos
Also coward (/j)

Throw yourself into the deep end or you’re not getting those 500 TNA runs I’m sure you’re seeking

[languid shore]

yeah it does

[quick horizon]

exploding head

[languid shore]

can never go anywhere without it on my archer

[last jacinth]

Oh, it looks like I can do the molten heights lootrun thingy

[last jacinth]

That was a bit if a sidetrack, but I was gonna see what these were anyway. That was a bit crazy and funny, and wasn't too bad beyond HP dropping sometimes from some enemies. There were these beacons, a blue and yellow one one. I couldn't find the blue one, so I went to the yellow one, and a defend-the-objective happened, and there was a guy riding in a tank with a drill. Fortunately, I did realize how finding the beacons worked soon.

Then in the frozen heights, there were mob waves and this frost drake guy with 600,000 HP. It wasn't too dangerous fortunately. There was also this kill the mob objective, and there was this lava thing in the ground with 2 million HP. That's a lot. It wasn't harmful at all, but it took over 2 minutes to take down. I figured out why that cave is called "cave of doom". Lastly, there were these ash dudes that got a bit scary. There was a lot of projectiles, so I'm very glad I have KB immunity

I just want to see if I can get the Enmity item without using the trade market yet, but it didn't give it. Didn't find worth in the final rewards besides extra emeralds. I also got this level 72-76 fabled tome thing that gives loot bonus and same raw earth damage, but I've heard funny things about tomes, so I probably won't use it

It was funny, but not interested in doing another one

[river pecan]

the whole point of lootruns is that you unlock more content as you play though

have you encountered lootrun missions yet?

[last jacinth]

I do not know. Is the additional unlocked lootrun content more supplemental variables like more beacon variants - I have seen screenshots of those in my brief observations

[river pecan]

there are quite a few additional beacons you unlock, such as buffing mobs in exchange for better end rewards. your choice of beacon starts mattering alot more and it takes some thought to juggle buffs, debuffs, time and challenge count

you also get missions occasionally which are like a side quest that when completed often change a fundamental aspect of the lootrun mechanics

[last jacinth]

That is what I expected. It wouldn't change what I think of them overall

It seems well-designed gameplay-wise, but most of the rewards seem to be items that can already be obtained in other places before reaching the pre-requisites - though both the exclusive and non-exclusive rewards are things that will not be useful to me anyway. Ignoring material value, maybe the varied run with built-upon stat aspects could be fun for me, but it does not further entice me despite it revolving around an aspect of the game I have liked. Not entirely sure why yet

A combination of finding the caves regardless of the extra lootrun-added stuff, along with my viewpoint of game replayability? We'll have to see

[last jacinth]

This flying the airship section in royal trials is certainly different than how I remember it years ago

I think there's a barrier ceiling really close above. I can't explain why else it felt like I was falling faster than usual

[last jacinth]

Royal trials completed. Nasty stealth section

[viral locust]

Can’t believe we finally retrieved TNA’s Foot from the mansion

(Cataclysm)

[coral bobcat]

I'd imagine Cata is actually Greg's hand.

[valid mica]

sometimes i forget that cata is probs the mythical treasure in that quest

i mainly just assume cata is trapped in some kind of rift, similar to the az runes

[lean vault]

It's not

[normal cedar]

cataclysm is not intended to be the treasure

cataclysms can be things other than the item

[coral bobcat]

really

what is the treasure then

[normal cedar]

"cataclysm-in-a-box" was literally just worded like that to be a glib way of saying "something really dangerous"

[last jacinth]

Level 99. Now running low on caves above 80. At least there are other option like dungeons/miniquests if it comes to it

Also orange wybel is next. Semi-final boss altar

[last jacinth]

Alright, no deaths on Orange wybel. Kicked fobby's little ass. Mainly a matter of kiting/rotating around him a lot while generally staying close, staying away from the fire dudes. Only moving around a lot when necessary as usual. Whenever HP got to around half, I'd bring in the rowdy wybels to life/mana steal from, and make it easier to activate courage. Only had to use my HP pot 4 times. Was concerned my -298 thunder defense would bring issues, but it didn't seem like it did - I have positive 357 fire defense

This is the one I remembered the most (well besides any changes since), did it a few times back then - though it was with more deaths, less game sense, and using HP pots

Very nice overall. I feel like there should be a better indicator if something is supposed to be invincible (well I already knew how Orange wybel's phases worked, but didn't remember geyser pit having an invincible phase too), like changing the sound that's made if you hit them, and there's no HP displayed, but oh well

[last jacinth]

Hero of gavel was OK. There was a high amount of /classing when the walking cutscenes randomly stopped. There was also bad bad frame lag at the web segment. It was from those armor stand spider mobs. The worst frame lag yet when looking at them

[last jacinth]

Level 100

[viral locust]

The real challenge of Orange Wybel is the room where they’re a passive mob

Truly a feat that stumps even the greatest player’s minds

[last jacinth]

Oh shit I forgot about phoenix prince

I thought I had enough for discombobulate - I am deciding to get it, it will be strong, but it does not seem like it will make my build breaking, so it should be fine. I did not have enough battle monk points - I forgot to get the air damage bonus. It seems the next ability point is at 104. Damn, oh well

[valid mica]

theres probably another bmonk node you might have missed

cuz pretty sure you wouldnt need to get air mastery to get discobobulate

[valid mica]

also, the lag in this quest is unbearable. It is legit THE ONLY segment in a quest where i actually get some of the worst lag and i dont even get lag from looking at armor stand models which means something is horribly wrong with that one.

[quick horizon]

they removed the tile puzzle from hero of gavel right

shoutouts to how that quest just completely shattered from the new dialogue system and that puzzle became so broken that they just decided to remove it

[last jacinth]

The only(?) segment I can identify as an influence of the ending changing is where he gets stuck in a cage and you have to open it in 2 minutes. I did not see a tile puzzle, but I did partially remember people talking about it frequently

[last jacinth]

Presumption: The specific weapon models those mobs use on their legs. I am pretty sure Vulcor uses the same things on their model, and that also created lag

[last jacinth]

Got phoenix prince out of the way. Navigating that area before him with the barriers was annoying

[last jacinth]

A journey beyond completed. You ever noticed sometimes it's spelled "irtitack", but other times it's spelled as "irritack"? That always bugged me

[languid shore]

Speaking of being bugged
MY LIVER! IT TOOK MY LIVER!

if only there was an unpaid voice actor to yell that outloud

[last jacinth]

It does especially bug me considering I made the model for the little dude and the name LOL. If you read this Pepo, don't worry, it's still a good quest regardless

[quick horizon]

i love pepo

[last jacinth]

I guess I'm in the endgame place now. So many other endgame people walking around. I'm in goddamn disneyworld

[zenith vessel]

You finished the theme park mmo and you made it to the castle in the middle moment

[last jacinth]

I see this player on the same server, creating all kinds of particles where they go, doing what must be all kinds of end-gaming outside of this raid entrance, stopping for a moment - probably a split second AFK to check something, as any endgame player should, and my man toxxulous ripper tries interrupting them. It didn't well for that ripper

I walk into this entrance and the biggest wall of discovery text yet fills my screen

[viral locust]

Does it lol

I always thought that it’s Irtitack
Might want to let Madeline know about the typos

[viral locust]

I’ll do it
It’ll destroy my vocal chords for like half the day but sure

(I’m kidding I don’t use my voice that often)

[last jacinth]

@lean vault this person has informed me to inform you of a spelling inconsistency that's been around since silent expanse released. Sometimes, it's spelled as "irtitack", but other times it's spelled as "irritack"

Extra observation: That gray text in the screenshot. The wiki page for a journey beyond spells the sound connection gray text as irtitack, but the russian version of the page spells it as irritack

[river pecan]

i think the first ine you encounter is called irritack?

[languid shore]

somebody already did, sorry. there is however a slot for voicing panic zealot

[lean vault]

can't fix it this is me rn. absolutely gwourfed

[coral bobcat]

OW is specifically inspired by Fobbyiyg from an Earthbound fangame. But describing him as a Fobby is also correct, although that descriptor might apply to all Wybels, unsure.

I feel like eventually Hero of Gavel needs a bit more work. The ending choice doesn't hit as hard when it's only tied to one stage of the quest.

[river pecan]

eh the ending choice doesn't hit hard in the first place imo, because either way sigfried gets taken out of the picture. it is only really a choice in terms of narrative, the end result is the same

hollow serenity final choice on the other hand, actually determines whether the village is populated for the rest of your playthrough.

[coral bobcat]

That's a good last choice.

Although my ideal Choose Your Own Ending quest would have the ending result from several choices taken throughout quest.

Perhaps a version of WynnEx where your choices determine how much of WynnEx is left, who takes control, and what happens to the shards?

[last jacinth]

Beat eldritch outlook with no deaths. Damn that's all the dungeons - corrupted dungeons don't seem worth bothering with. I only did underworld crypt for Drain. Mirror room took a bit to get tokens - the teleport detection was a bit janky. In the place with the reversion catalysts, one of them was this guy with fire and water damage/defense, thunder weakness, wave spell. It did actually seem like he was outhealing me for a bit - ~300,000 HP and HP regenning a quarter of that. Fortunately, it was possible to take him down via facetanking via HP potting and focused uppercut/warscream spamming

[viral locust]

Whenever someone mentions a rework to WynnEx I am compelled to barge in

HI YES AM WORKING ON COOL THING

That being said the whole thing with the shards is stupid as hell

The massive ceiling crystals are still there

Remove the big crystals and make the shards knockoff Infinity Stones instead

That way they serve as actual portable macguffins

[coral bobcat]

Yeah I was thinking about that.

Big shards make no sense.

I think Purple Emerald suggested making a really complicated provenance thing where the shards were put in weapons and stuff.

[last jacinth]

That is the user you are speaking to right now, with a changed name and profile image

For Eye, there was a specific distance I stuck to - away from the middle, getting close when it wasn't launching stuff, otherwise I was chip damaging from the aforementioned distance. As usual, got dangerous at times but it wasn't too bad. I think the most consistent threat was the arrow storm. Still one of the top dudes overall

[coral bobcat]

O!

Did not notice. But yes they did suggest that at one point.

[viral locust]

What provenance

Also the whole weapons thing was mainly to make their usage in the story more interesting

Would be far more boring if the wielders were just holding the crystals in their hands

Also allows me to implement consequences to holding them with your bare hands

Also “suggest” might be the wrong word to use given that my WynnEx rework is so big and changes so many things that basically no small part of it ever be considered

[coral bobcat]

I remember a complicated map you drew at some point with a bunch of lines indicating where your five crystals went.

[viral locust]

Did the image not show up

[coral bobcat]

Really, it's not a rewrite or rework. It's completely destroying the quest from the ground up and retaining only the concept of crystals.

[viral locust]

Nevermind let’s try that again

[last jacinth]

Besides server shenanigans in fallen factory, no deaths in any dungeon. Yay.

For hardest dungeon at-level for me, it would probably be ice barrows and undergrowth ruins. I only mention that second one because that fucking escort section took a lot of tries

[coral bobcat]

I've honestly not had issues with the escort that I recall.

[viral locust]

For reference, this chart is a snapshot from several months ago (I don’t have the new one with me atm). It depicts the passing of Crystal-relevant objects between characters and locations for my fanmade version of WynnEx

[coral bobcat]

No deaths, though, that's pretty nice for you.

[viral locust]

Despite its complexity, it is a severely outdated chart with about 80% of its current content missing

[coral bobcat]

That's the one I remember, although in my memories it has Wynn-menu-yellow background.

[viral locust]

Nah it always had a gray background

[last jacinth]

Though timelost sanctum also got challenging at times, maybe that joins up there at top 2 instead of undergrowth ruins held up by the crazy escort section

[viral locust]

If you have questions about the lore this probably isn’t the place to ask it
Feel free to ask in the main channel

[coral bobcat]

Very complicated map! Me likey. Update?

[viral locust]

That or the WynnTheory discord server, if your are in there

[coral bobcat]

am not

[last jacinth]

Yes, I am encouraging player passion by limiting my desire to keep the thread strictly on topic, but don't get too tangential

[coral bobcat]

am trying to move to other channel

alright you're basically done
leveled much faster than i do generally
so, all you have left is AHC, point of no return if you haven't done it yet

and then you have officially fully leveled a class
there is nothing left to do at that point other than:

• raid
• lootrun
• guild war
• level new class

[last jacinth]

Remove those bottom 3 from that list

[coral bobcat]

and every season, a max-level class is useful for the festival hunt

[coral bobcat]

didn't you not want to do any of those?

[last jacinth]

Yes. I presumed that list was suggesting things for me to do

I will "raid", but only once on each of them

[coral bobcat]

It wasn't. It was a list of all currently present endgame tasks, except Forgery because nobody cares about CDs.

[last jacinth]

Dungeon ranking, best to worst:

Timelost sanctum > Eldritch outlook > Sandswept tomb > Ice barrows > Fallen factory > Infested pit > Decrepit sewers > Galleon's graveyard > Undergrowth ruins > Underworld crypt > whatever I remember of corrupted lost sanctuary after having to do that crap to get water sanctuary years ago

[misty dune]

that puzzle was always a horrid broken mess even before new dialogue system

[forest maple]

siegfried disappears at least twice every time i try it

[last jacinth]

That quest was the most times I've used /class so far when something seemed to not work

[viral locust]

But then you’ll miss half the rooms : (

[quick horizon]

worked pretty fine for me on like 5 classes

[last jacinth]

Time for Qira

[valid mica]

wooo spider lady

dont forget buffs

[last jacinth]

Buffs?

[valid mica]

skill point potions

[last jacinth]

I can't believe it, I just did it. With only 1 death, and forgetting to refill on HP pots (had around 24 on 2nd attempt). I think my build is good. I don't think it's broken, it doesn't seem like it. Being more aware of what I mesh with for equipment setups, I've just found something that I mesh well with. This is the first time I ever beat Qira without skill pots - last time I fought her was like 2017-2018

[valid mica]

well damn

congrats, you have beaten qira hive

now you have beaten wynncraft

its time to beat monumenta

[last jacinth]

I already played 2 giant CTM maps. Sufficiently knowledged of the genre, just too busy to do more right now - I also played Monumenta's first 2 dungeons. It's OK. I'm not further extending this stay into live service territory I'm now averse to. There's still some more stuff to do besides the raids being saved for last

Anyway

[viral locust]

Imagine relying on skill pots

[last jacinth]

I used to do that back then, so another point of doing this is to see if I have at least improved skill-wise, and to see if I learned anything from those old years of actively playing Wynn/being CT. I'll talk about Qira in a bit I'm busy with something right now

[last jacinth]

There were moments of staying in a small area and moments of moving around a lot. A lot of constant re-positionings. The web spell is very dangerous, so I was always making sure to sprint and/or charge and/or uppercut if spell particles appeared around her. I saw there was a purple thing on me, and it said I had "-5 mana regen/steal". I don't know if it did anything more than that.

I was still able to get close at various times and war scream/uppercut, along with importantly using the spiders for stealing IDs - though I did get a bit carried away when it practically wasn't helpfully healing. I think I saw big lines go across the arena, I just tried staying away from those. She also mentioned that endurance wouldn't help, and also that a minute and 30 seconds passed, don't know if that meant anything.

When she mentioned having the abilities of the things she made, I thought she was gonna utilize a variant of every special move

Melee phase was the easiest, I think. I think she had heavy charge, so I dealt with that as I usually did. Was careful of multihit, but it still hit me a few times, doing ~75% of my HP each time. Phase 3 was a matter of positioning and timing with all the crazy stuff going on. Almost got into death situations a couple times. The dark things moving around the arena surprisingly weren't that bad. When she was almost dead, I was spamming spells, she was blinding me with the teleport spam, and I noticed I was out of HP pots. I figured it was do or die, but as I thought that, she wasn't there anymore. I guess I killed her without noticing, because the master thing was on the ground

There was quite a lot of stuff going on, but I still had a rough idea of areas to avoid, and it was fun. Not bad fight. I've been keeping Blade of purity around in case of elemental defense assholes, but I have not needed to use it for anything yet

I guess on a death count basis, the hardest Hive boss was oceanic judge for me, who has the highest death count of any boss so far, followed by Plague doctor and prison of soul dudes

I got the "kill level 100+ mobs" daily task, and I completed it in the middle of the Qira fight. However, Qira's dialogue, "your cleansing thing cooldown is over", and other messages, have pushed it too far up the chatlog for me to get it after the fight. I will not be getting my daily reward today

[valid mica]

do /daily

youre welcome, and if it doesnt work, fuck

[last jacinth]

Point of no return was OK. A little annoying

Hunter's calling, 104 (because I want to have discombobulate for more stuff), bottomless pit, legendary island, then raids

I don't think I ever actually finished Hunter's calling on my regular class when I touched it in 2019-2020 - or even if I started it? I don't remember

[viral locust]

As far as I know the debuff is unavoidable

[normal cedar]

Qira imitated the spells of other bosses to an extent. Every time she said a line she performed one of them, and also could summon more drones. The "purple thing" was imitating one of Psychomancer's spells, where a particle trail follows you and after a short time, detonates in the space you walked while it was following you. That repeats a few times, and it does give you the temporary mana debuff if you get hit by it.

The bits about endurance and the minute and a half thing is just character-building- her special spells are timed, and so she literally does say that after a minute and a half. This is a sporting bout for her, so she's basically commenting on your performance as you go through. It's also worth noting she only says that in her first phase, and she can heal herself in that phase- so that is the point in the fight where you sort of have to burst her down. The Big Lines imitate Gale's bombardment, but far more dangerous- that would've done true damage if you got hit. Specifically, 10% of your current HP and 1% of your max per hit.

The dark things rotating imitated Oceanic Judge's typhoons- just creating area denial instead of rotating outwards and fading.

[viral locust]

As for the trailing explosion thing Qira does I can never keep track of it

I pretty much get hit by it 100% of the time

Might be a skill issue on my part tbh

Anyways have you considered having the trail be visible

It might make it way too easy but like

Still might be bearable than the current

[normal cedar]

Genesis and the Vanguard's spells didn't mesh very well with the others and would've been redundant to add, if you're wondering why those didn't show up.

[viral locust]

Sure they do
Kill the player if they don’t take down Qira’s last phase in 20 seconds

Also instead of the timed drops have Qira spawn falling drones every time 1% of her health is taken away instead

[last jacinth]

Hive was good. I already talked about the individual sections. I was never able to read the dialogue that you get when putting the items into the 9th dispenser thing before the boss, because the room 9 guy was always on my ass, but I guess there's dialogue history.

Selvut. I think you do have good, sometimes great boss design overall. A focus on a demand of pattern-reading, which I like. The main consistent issue I've found is a demand to understand what can be hard-to-understand mechanics, or unfamiliar ones, like with Psychomancer or the specific properties of mob spells. Doesn't mean they should be dumbed down, they're fine, but it is good to have ingame methods of understanding compared to having to learn from a wiki/player/CT

When it comes to unfamiliar mechanics, it is generally important to lightly introduce, then escalate from there. It probably wouldn't hurt to give one of the regular Hive mobs in each division a lighter version of the special ability their corresponding boss has, or something along those lines. It does seem Psychomancer's sight-based ability has surprised this server's main demographic.

The other issues I've had with more demanding bosses are the fault of the server itself. It's hard to have demanding patterns when telegraphs are hard to make, and it's hard to learn a hard boss' patterns when soul points are the way they are

[normal cedar]

Mobs are supposed to quit attacking while you're talking with an NPC...

[last jacinth]

I don't think they ever did whenever I interacted with the dispensers

[normal cedar]

Annoying

But yeah- Hive is kinda my baby, so to speak, so it's cool to hear the enjoyment

[last jacinth]

I think my favorite of the Hive bosses was Gale, Solar vanguard, or Qira? Not sure, we'll have to see once I rank all the bosses

My build is finished - well I don't have the last ability point ingame yet, but you know. The boots used before beating Qira was silt of the seafllor https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#8_0XL0K70Jo0Jq0Ks0Ks0FN09t05T1F-c150--Y1g00001006C60z0z0+0+0+0+0-jN-9YPQOr1

[delicate pewter]

I can confirm they dont stop attack, did qira 2 days ago

Woops sory for ping

[last jacinth]

Nasty random frame lag spikes in hunters calling swamp section

[last jacinth]

Hunter's calling. Well that's the last quest, I don't feel like doing any I skipped (tower of ascension was also skipped). There was a lot of long-distance running, but it was pretty good, besides that swamp section

Aledar/Tasim was a good fight. Died once - had Aledar as the last dude in the first attempt, then Tasim in the second attempt. You know how I deal with heavy charge dudes by now. I keep forgetting to mention this, but I still don't like the brief blindness you get when you take lots of damage

To be quite honest, the bosses in hunters calling may be the very few bosses to have custom spells that were OK and not terribly annoying. The other non-annoying instances have been Redbeard, Hive bosses, Garoth, and non-corrupted Charon to some degree on the top of my head

Another thing I forgot to mention the entire time. Too late now, quests are finished but it seems mob drops like to fly out far sometimes, where finding them is an inconvenience.

Also, the key item sprite resembled a candle at certain points when dropped on the ground, or just appearing that way when a quest had a key hang up on a wall or something. It did make keys tricky to find at times

[coral bobcat]

That happens.

I've seen that a lot. I think that the broken key item (well, one of the two) is actually a candle, and for some reason it still looks like that outside the inventory. It's very odd. You do get used to it, mostly, because actual candles never crop up as items.

[languid shore]

We should q tna right now!

[coral bobcat]

???

[last jacinth]

First 104, then bottomless pit, then legendary island, then I can do raids. I was gonna mention that I'm at halfway through 103 and now completely out of practical non-mob exp methods, but it seems these secret discoveries should be sufficient

[quick horizon]

the mob drops flying everywhere explosions were introduced in 2.0 and i absolutely despise it

often just makes finding drops a pain in the ass at times

i think someone gave me a reason for it but i dont remember who or what it was but i remember disagreeing with it

actually no i think it had to do with mob drops getting stuck in walls but i think the new system causes more issues than it solved

[normal cedar]

I think the explosions would be better if the radius was reduced.

there's no need for them to burst out any more than one block in any direction

[last jacinth]

Level 104

[last jacinth]

The quests were fine - can't truly speak for story, because I don't have much of an attachment to that. I want to talk about some remakes. Don't get it twisted, I have enjoyed the remakes on average more than the originals, but there's always been some mindset issues I've noticed when it comes to remakes, ones that still seem to be prevalent: New toy syndrome, low bar climbing, and technical upgrade not equaling a gameplay upgrade on its own. To get more specific:

Out of my mind. This is the change I have always disliked, more than the others. Old out of my mind wasn't the best quest, but it had a nice story and utilized the tools in a clever way. All it really needed was a couple bits of gameplay polishing at most. Instead, because the tools were new at the time, it gets turned into walking down a hallway reading a boring crazy(?) guy's long lines of text, solving a random puzzle so it can still be called "out of my mind", and a very plain boss at the end. And even ignoring the change aversion, I still think it's a poor quest all around, and a not-great showcase of the tools.

Did it need to be changed to this level? Were inserting these things beneficial to it? This over-eagerness to use the tools can result in things like this if you're not careful. I guess at this point, now new out of my mind is old, but it still bugs me to this day

[viral locust]

Isn’t Out Of My Mind like

Piss old

Pretty sure the massive plant fight is still one of the only remaining unchanged bosses from ancient ancient Wynncraft

It’s just like
A really old quest

It hasn’t been touched in ages

[last jacinth]

I joined in 2013, that quest was added in 2014 or so. It was remade in ~2017, so it is still "new" to me in my ancient time span

[viral locust]

Bro 2017 was seven years ago

[last jacinth]

Still bugs me to this day

I know eye of the storm was a bad quest. It wasn't well made (I did like that sliding puzzle a bit), but unfortunately, I didn't like lexdale witch trials much either. It's a low bar, and if eye of the storm was a 3/10, and lexdale witch trials was 4/10, that isn't much better.

I admit, I did like old finding the light, and I didn't hear good things about the new one. I gave it a chance, but unfortunately, I didn't like it too much.

Across both remakes and new quests, the use of technical upgrades/the tools in general aren't gameplay improvements on their own. They're separate metrics. They still have to be fun to play. Can they if done right? Absolutely yes, especially if something only has the necessary amount of technical work put into it. Because if you're not careful, at worst, you're going to end up with something that has 100 hours put into it that breaks in 100 different ways

Something that probably couldn't been achieved with far less over-engineering

Slightly tangential from the technical stuff, but after level 60 or so, when the quests got big, there would sometimes be little marathons of long quests. Quests with cutscenes and fancy segments. Good presentation, but it got a little bit exhausting after a bit. The level 65-75 range has 3 different instances of cutscene-centric quests that take place in a centralized mansion/castle - Memory paranoia, headless hunt, and hollow serenity. They're also in close-ish proximity to each other

Murder mystery is still one of my favorites. The changes didn't seem to take anything away, and it only has the necessary amount of technical stuff added on to enhance it

Again, I have generally enjoyed the remakes/new quests. It's just a matter of not getting excessive with the tools, and making things that keep breaking or are just annoying to play. I had to use /class a lot in hero of gavel, along with having to use it in some other places

I'm not sure what my favorite quest was. I think it may still be the ones in the Cinfras area, memory paranoia, general's orders, the lost, and beyond the grave on the top of my head

Time for bottomless pit

[last jacinth]

How do I keep doing this? I fucking first tried Panic zealot. I think my build counters him because I have a lot of health regen and lifesteal. By now, it was just a matter of casting spells, slapping him, moving away from his spells, staying away from the hurt zones. There were a few times where I'd be at ~31 HP, but then I'd be back at 600-1100 quickly. Used HP pot 4 times. I mean it was more the like the in control zealot, because I mostly felt pretty calm the whole time, then confused that I beat him first try

His model lagged me a bit. I didn't like that, but it was a nice fight otherwise

[normal cedar]

PZ is like COW in that if you stay calm and keep an eye on his movements he's not that tough, it's just learning him that's tough, but hr/ls gives you a buffer

[last jacinth]

I saw someone randomly mention this in this discord, but do you actually not lose soul points when dying to Panic zealot?

[normal cedar]

That's a true statement, though I disagree with it. While I don't think SP is the way to go in terms of death punishment, I don't feel like time and the tiny ingredient cost to enter is enough of a punishment for death either, but it was insisted on. I think. It's been awhile so I don't remember the exact conversation but that's how I feel now

[last jacinth]

That is hilarious. I kind of wish that was in more places LOL, at least in response to how the system is right now. I guess I didn't need it, since I haven't gotten into the red zone yet from any boss.

The thing with any death system that increases punishment beyond lost time/return to checkpoints, is that it's gonna be contentious with the flexibility you have with designing content, and moreso how hard it can be. Practically, punishing deaths and high difficulty are mostly mutually exclusive. You can have both... but not a lot of people are gonna like it.

Maybe Panic zealot's deaths aren't punishing enough, but it's a change that makes sense to me short term as a response to the current, potential progression-ruining system contending with a boss designed to be heavily practiced more than others

[last jacinth]

Final thing before raids, legendary island. I used to have to do this multiple times with skill pots to get enough things for the items, so I definitely have some memories with it. That was when it was first added

I think I did it a total of 3-4 times successfully, not counting failed attempts

[last jacinth]

Yay no hoppers in legendary island

[last jacinth]

Wooooooooooooooo first try

Hardest overall ones were Death metal, Cybel(?), and Dr. legendary. I did like all of them besides Mummyboard and Virus doctor, they were a bit boring

A bit weird that Robob holds the same sword in all of his forms, but whatever. I guess I'll start getting ready for raids tomorrow. Doing them in this order --> Grootslang --> Orphion --> Canyon colossus --> the blahblahblahwowow anomaly

[coral bobcat]

You first try far too much for someone who hasn't played for a decade.

[last jacinth]

It is a bit apparent that people overestimated some things a bit. I'd say my build is good, but back then and now I was never those super-dedicated multi-thousand hour people. I don't even know what the actual broken/top-level strategies are beyond short observations. Though I put thought into it, and with some people's help on how stuff like the stealing IDs work now, this modern playthrough's setup has otherwise been a self-made strategy

I respect power stackers (mostly), but I only do it if it's something I really like. I otherwise prefer perfecting patterns, positioning, and employing a very reductive/non-exaggerrated approach. This is something I lacked in 2013-2019. I was a lot more narrowminded

Well being a CT certainly did help with understanding this game LOL, but even during that period of time skill improvement wasn't the main focus. That skill improvement came from other games played while in CT and after leaving CT

[forest maple]

Wait does rejuvenating skin work on the 99% true damage in pz?

Cos that seems kinda busted

[last jacinth]

I do not know. This is the build https://wynnbuilder.github.io/builder/#8_0XL0K70Jo0Jq0Ks0Ks0FN09t05T1F-c150--Y1g00001006C60z0z0+0+0+0+0-jN-9YPQOr1

I should probably get this rhythm of the seasons thing. It seems like it will be helpful for the raids

[last jacinth]

Wow. My cyclone can still make the az rune minigame happen. I hope that doesn't become a problem

[delicate pewter]

If that is the ability that heals back 30% of damage taken then yes it works

PZ is free on paladin

[silver charm]

it’s op

[coral bobcat]

Really?

[silver charm]

15% hp unconditional heal (w/ efficiency more like 16-17%?) with extra hp to tank and mr to make it more spammable

[quick horizon]

not really op but its cool if you meet the reqs for it

[silver charm]

op is a bit hyperbolic but its awesome, before greed i used to rots in lrs

[last jacinth]

The concept of searching for people to do multiplayer-exclusive live service content is foreign to me, so uhh here we go

@silver charm @viral locust are you available for raids (nest of the grootslang and maybe the Orphion one after that)

[viral locust]

Slight warning
I'm going to destroy NoL, I have a Shaman

Also I probably won't be available in a couple hours from now so I'm afraid I can't join

[last jacinth]

I kind of figured that one is going to get crushed anyway. Can't be bothered to make another at-level class for it

Well that's fine. Maybe you can be in the others. Though I would want my player choices to be people who have been in this thread

[silver charm]

yesh sure im down

[last jacinth]

I am in private room 4 voice chat channel

[silver charm]

im gon be finishing up some food but if you wanna try /pfinder give it a rumble

[last jacinth]

Don't want to interact with random players I am unknown of

Oh, I skimmed too fast on purple emerald's message. I thought that said nest of the grootslangs. Anyway

[last jacinth]

Nest of the grootslangs completed. Thank you thenelston and spikeyspruce

I got this tome that increased damage against mobs by +6%. I guess I should use those now. I also got this charm of the worm, but it looked very unhelpful, so I threw it out

[last jacinth]

Nest of the grootslang was fine. There was first this room where you try to stand on spots and be on one that rises up. Took a bit to understand, and it was easy, but it had us have to do it again a few times. It even said if you don't clear it in 2 minutes, you lose the raid. Calm down please. I did most of the platform standing, so yay.

The next room had 3 ways to go, and you had to build up this thing. I went on the left to the parkour puzzle section. It took a bit to understand the puzzle in this fast-paced session. I charged to the end, but it said I had to solve the puzzle. By the time I figured out the puzzle, the thing was finished building up. Unfortunately, I did not contribute. Oh well.

The next room was one where one person had to carry a thing to break the rocks. I carried the thing since I had the most HP/regen. Yay. Spikeyspruce died. Don't know what happened, but it was mildly silly.

We killed the boss very quickly. I think they were using strong builds, but I did try to help. I looked at a video of it afterwards, and it doesn't seem too bad regardless at-level

It was fine, and the people were nice, but for some reason, something sits slightly unwell with me

[languid shore]

toggle music on for orphion

extremely crucial to the fight (its a banger)

[last jacinth]

To get this over with, I decided to bite the bullet and play with random people. Fortunately, the party finder did find people, and they were nice, and the Orphion raid went well. We played it 3 times in a row because it seems that's what they wanted. I'll talk about it in a bit, but I got a lot of stuff. Thank you finedop, assassinx, and @hushed root (I think that was you?)

[hushed root]

it was

[last jacinth]

But yes, thanks for that

[normal cedar]

While I couldn't mess with Orphion's custom spells much, I was able to sort out his basic spells- charge, meteor, and those types- alongside all the summons.

[mellow plume]

orphion's basic spells used to be a pretty funny shitshow if i remember correctly

there was one combo where he'd pull you directly into a 50k damage heavy explosion at the end of it

[hushed root]

yeah

something that most builds would need old cheru 3 to survive

[last jacinth]

I got this mythic seismic tome of weapon mastery 2 that has 12% damage to mobs and 7% damage on our 3rd run. I guess I should use it over the one I got in the grootslang raid

[normal cedar]

yeah- his spells were basically just...he used everything all the time all at once, for lack of a better term. there were discrete gaps and combos but there were so many uniques ones, they had such short ending times, and they were put together in such an unintelligible mishmash that it was essentially just a roulette of what spell he would use at any given moment.

[mellow plume]

i do have the spell combo list somewhere but i dont really want to post it here given just how much space it'd take up

[last jacinth]

I think we saw every room across the runs. Most of them went smoothly. There was another 3-way room that I could never find a way to contribute to before everyone already finished. There's this enemy that was just named "light". That was funny. There was also this room where you have to follow a player over an invisible bridge. I eventually understood, but it still did felt a bit janky at times - like getting flown up into the air randomly. I fell off a few times. Fortunately, that one only showed up once

Orphion. I can't tell if it was simple or something I only barely understand. The weird dog himself seems simple, then there were evil red spots to go away from. When all the mobs show up, I was not able to read the name of a single one. I just kept killing and use the gamesense I have built up from this playthrough. No further strategizing. I usually used the buffs that gave mana regen/steal, damage, and the one that gives 10,000 HP plus the guardian major ID on 2 of those runs

We got crystallized various times, but it seems we were on top of removing that. The Parasite seems very simple. It wasn't very hard overall? At most, I would lose 30-50% of my HP from Orphion via unknown means (maybe it was Guardian), but it was never a huge emergency

[quick horizon]

orphion spell combos were learnable and avoidable on every class

[last jacinth]

All I could see him do was heavy charge. That's all I saw

[quick horizon]

well its different now my comment was in response to the above conversation

[quick horizon]

there isnt really any strategizing to it other than just kill everything and dont die really

[normal cedar]

Orphion's custom spells involve the summoning of minions, the red spots(blood runes), and the various things the Crystal could do. Crystallization and summoning were tied to health, and the crystal could target players to launch them into the air, target them with lightning that hits only the player targetted, or target them with lightning that hits everyone even if they aren't necessarily targetted.

[last jacinth]

I see

[quick horizon]

parasite used to be a lot harder but more in the realm of just utter horseshit and has since been pretty tame

[normal cedar]

Crystal gets more things it can do the less health Orphion has.

[last jacinth]

Orphion will not be high on my list, but at least it didn't annoy me besides the frame lag when there was lots of stuff

[quick horizon]

what do you think about raid design as a whole

[normal cedar]

Yeah, Parasite was horrid before I got to touchin it up. ~2750 damage per projectile, shotgun ten-projectile spread, shot twice a second.

[quick horizon]

on the how its laid out front that is

3 challenge rooms each followed by buffs and then the boss

[hushed root]

on that note is the cylone kills still broken

I genuinely can't tell if it's doing anything

[normal cedar]

No clue, as I am only regurgitating what I was told the crystal does. In the testing I did when touching up Orphion the Crystal didn't activate cause I had to test it in a weird hacky way.

[last jacinth]

I am unsure. It's gonna be something I'm gonna have to think about

[hushed root]

Along with that I still to this day have 0 clue what the cyclone curses is supposed to do either

[quick horizon]

besides the parasite itself, the sanitizing void projectiles used to deal raw true damage and had a much lower cooldown on when it fires

[normal cedar]

iirc Curses means it can cause the lightning-that-hits-everyone and Kills means it can cause the higher-damage, but single-target lightning

[quick horizon]

basically every time a player got pulled by the sanitizing void they would be immediately and instantly vaporized one by one until you could kill the parasite

[normal cedar]

I cleaned it up a while ago, in whatever way I could without knowing how to code the scripts.

[last jacinth]

Being MMO-averse, I don't even know what I would want for raids if I was more concerned with them. The initial kneejerk thought I can think of right now is that a good chunk of the stuff seems like stuff I could do on my own, but the game is making the stat numbers really huge, making my stat numbers big with the buffs, and adding little bits of extra player-requirements like this crystal thing

Also, it almost feels like a different game, though in ways that's hard to describe at the moment

The process has been smooth so far, but I have heard a lot of funny things about the last 2

[quick horizon]

the original 3 raids didnt really actually need multiple players a lot of the time yeah

tna does a better job at actually being multiplayer content in the challenge rooms but its still not perfect

[last jacinth]

Things like the buffs and the tomes comes across as slightly disconnected. Nothing in the game prepares you for it(?). I guess those lootruns are bridging that gap with the buffs they give(?), but I still view as something very unfamiliar. It kind of comes off as "we want to add raids" and not "we want to add raids to wynncraft"

[normal cedar]

Tomes started too early. This is an opinion I've held since they were introduced.

They're effectively meant to give you power boosts around the time in the game where items stop really getting much stronger, which was intended to be after Lv 100. You can see how this is a little problematic with them starting out being given at Lv 60.

Like...the basic concept behind them makes sense, but on the flipside, a lot of things about their implementation don't make sense.

[quick horizon]

i imagine the intention behind raid buffs was to add a sense of progression and not make the rooms in between feel completely empty but i still dislike their existence

[last jacinth]

Those tomes LOL. I remember not liking them after they were added. But that was a while ago. I don't remember what I said at the time anymore, but I still don't like them. If I think the non-big spell customization options in the ability tree are redundant, then tomes are just funny to me

[normal cedar]

While I don't think this was his only reason for wanting raid buffs added, Salted said one of the reasons he wanted them added was to even out buildmaking and let even people who had no build coherency whatsoever contribute still.

[quick horizon]

not a good reason

[last jacinth]

Yeah it kind of feels like they de-incentivize builds a bit if they're really strong. But then, if they're really weak, what's the point

[quick horizon]

unrelated note - still completely disappointed that there wasnt a sort of "hub" area in tna like there is for nol

[quick horizon]

they were infamously busted in 1.20 (and still are) but tna's buffs strike a much better balance

[last jacinth]

I mean, I guess randomization is a key thing with these raids - is that normal for raids in games? So I guess with a game who has large parts of itself already defined by randomness, I guess random power ups makes sense

Raid bosses are like a lose/lose situation for me. These ones have been very simple overall, but if I get what I want, I'm gonna get the reason I view raids negatively: Those absurd stat sponge ones with very little room for error, in extreme cases not being designed as a challenge, but so that the 1% of the playerbase that clears it gets a chance at the rewards great value is attached to

I remember this video I saw a long time ago of this guy talking about him and his party defeating this boss that took a couple hours, while video footage plays of several characters in this mountain environment. All of them kept repeating their same casting animations, while this giant demon monster kept moving very slowly, occasionally playing his attack animation

[last jacinth]

Also, this total player level thing is just absolutely silly to say the least. I know why it's there, but I almost feel bad that some of the game's foundational design issues forced this to happen. It might as well not exist for the last 2 raids. I don't think you can enter with more or less than 4 people, so it's impossible to reach that limit anyway(?).

And then for the other 2, it comes off as a complicated attempt to make the raid difficulty work in a variety of player levels. This is a consequence of having mob/player power scaling that scales so fast. Though, does a 6-player level 80 setup achieve the same difficulty level as a 4-player level 100 setup? Then for grootslang, I'm pretty sure 1 endgame player would be able to easily deal with it anyway, if the game didn't restrict it.

Regardless, this system uses player levels as addends, which is a resource that you can never simply make go down, unless you have the forethought to use guilds to restrict exp gained

Couldn't the addend be like the average mean of your worn equipment instead. That's something you can control. The lootrun system also indicates that it's possible to lock a player's equipment temporarily

I have a question, does the grootslang raid have any special reward that isn't a worse/lower-level version of what the other raids offer

[normal cedar]

There's some obtainable accessories unique to each raid. Aside from that, tomes are direct upgrades to one another.

[last jacinth]

I see

[normal cedar]

You get both armor and weapon tomes in Grootslang, but from then on raids have alternated. Orphion gives weapon tomes, TCC gives armor tomes, and TNA gives weapon tomes again.

[languid shore]

all raids are soloable

i think giving raid mobs buffs like in lootruns corresponsing to party level would be a better solution, if that is possible

[last jacinth]

I'm working under technical definitions. I'm sure they are with various equipment setups, but you still must bring in other players regardless

[last jacinth]

Oh I just noticed you can see the power of the passive powder special when pressing tab. It's a good thing I noticed it before finishing the last 2 things in the game

[silver charm]

grootslangs is still rerun at end game because it’s got two piss busted accessories

[coral bobcat]

Which ones?

[silver charm]

eoa + symb

[coral bobcat]

What are those and how are they helpful?

[forest maple]

eyes on all and symbiont, tdrop necklace and he ring

[viral locust]

What’s so good about Symbiont

[full sequoia]

healing effectiveness mainly i think

[silver charm]

it’s better than any accessory you can craft for healing

[last jacinth]

Accessories with a niche still. That's always nice. For the tomes - the primary raid reward, it doesn't seem like a good idea that tomes are superior iterations of each other on a per-raid basis. Even if the Orphion raid isn't truly endgame(?), it seems very weird that the nameless anomaly has objectively superior weapon tomes, if I'm understanding correctly

But it's finally time, time for the big premiere. Endgame main event. Ignore everything I've done this whole time, because the real game begins. It's football season, and I'm the quarterback. This... is the game

[languid shore]

Inb4 2 assassin 1 warrior party

For real tho, try to find a party that wont instakill tna

[last jacinth]

That's something I'll never know of until I actually get to that boss and the amount of time it takes speaks for itself. I also don't want to request "hello, I am looking for a group that is somewhat competent, but also isn't capable of destroying the challenge"

[languid shore]

The combination of classes i named should be telling enough

Actually if u pfinding imma snipe u in like 3 mins when i get home

[last jacinth]

I was presuming it indicated some kind of inefficient setup

Well I'm doing the canyon colossus first

[languid shore]

Warrior for all the damage buffs, assass for dps

[languid shore]

Oh right, i forgor that existed

[last jacinth]

Those first 2 raids was my first time with that form of MMO content. This will be my first time interacting with raids that have their own little active facets of the community - though I guess that's more prevalent with the nameless anomaly. Hopefully I meet the standards of them!

[quick horizon]

(you will not)

that’s not meant to be an insulting comment or anything

just that players have very high standards and demand very optimized and specific builds

although you can play and enjoy the raid perfectly fine without such builds

[last jacinth]

First raid loss. That's fine, learning experience. I gave the party leader 8 tol runes, just in case. They then said "bro gave 8 runes", and another person in the party said "no shot". Currently unknown definition of these phrases. The first room was another build-up-a-thing-with-multiple-challenges-around room, and I contributed this time. Yay. The second room was this wings room, and someone eventually found the right way to, so that was smooth.

The 3rd room had these 3 golems, and you had to defend them. My war scream pulled the mobs back, so that was helpful I think. The canyon colossus fight was going somewhat smoothly. It was a bit of a mess, but I did quickly understand. After we were damaging it, we soon got teleported to a new phase with a yellow mob that we got teleported in front of, and 3/4 of us died. There was one person left that killed the yellow mobs, but it didn't seem like anyone was doing the puzzle - someone placed ~20 question marks into 1 chat message.

The raid was failed, a person left the party, and that party leader gave me 3 tol runes back - I was placing more tol runes in the trade interaction GUI at first until I saw what they were giving me. They then left the party as well

[normal cedar]

Worth noting that the colossus raid was notably rushed, so there will probably be a good deal of questionable design choice- even the makers have admitted this and feel it needs a good deal of tweaking

[last jacinth]

Well the regular rooms have felt smooth, at least the ones I saw. The mobs weren't threatening - though having elemental defense against their damage helps? Not sure

[normal cedar]

as for the "Gave 8 runes" and "no shot" thing. The first one was just surprise at you handing over more runes than usual, as people have the nasty tendency to be very stingy with handing over runes. No shot is a non-wynn-related slang term. Basically just like "No way", "that's crazy", "I don't believe it", etc.

I went through and hit the stats of most of the mobs pretty hard. They had similar issues of Spamming Every Spell way too quickly, ridiculous stats, etc. I catalogued my findings to some extent publicly and had a bit of a meltdown over it a while ago

[last jacinth]

I see. Anyway, just the player interaction of that alone sets a telling precedence for what the nameless anomaly may be like, so it may be best not to take further chances with random players. I may have gotten lucky with the people I played with for the Orphion raid

@tight heart Hi (I know this person). Are you available for the canyon collosus

[tight heart]

ok

[last jacinth]

@languid shore are you available for the canyon colossus

[languid shore]

yes give me a sec

ingame same as discord

[last jacinth]

Yummy

[last jacinth]

@mellow plume are you available for the canyon colossus

[mellow plume]

i can hop on rq

[last jacinth]

Is your ingame username highbread

[last jacinth]

Canyon colossus finished twice. Thank you Fleega, highbread, and punscake. I think we're about to do the next one so I can't talk about it yet

[mellow plume]

old tcc moment

[last jacinth]

@mellow plume @languid shore I am in the voicechat

[last jacinth]

And finally, the blahblahcrazytext anomaly finished I think 3 times with no losses. Thank you punscake, highbread for the first couple runs, and various other random people

For the canyon colossus boss, just a matter of being in the right places and moving when necessary (Yesterday, I figured out holding shift while charging makes you go down fast, but I did get slightly carried away with it)

[languid shore]

The ||12345|| Anomaly

[last jacinth]

For the nameless anomaly raid, I think I saw all the rooms. I did try my best. It took a bit to understand the rooms. I think I understand now, but the only room I still don't fully understand is the room where you stand on a thing with your soul and someone goes into these grotto places or whatever. In the room where you follow the light, I barely got through the first part. Then in the second part, the archer that had the light quickly escape spelled up, and 2 of us died. The regular mobs didn't seem too hard to deal with otherwise

They did scale vertically up quickly, so I wasn't sure. This is a reply to a deleted post that said it was a mage

[quick horizon]

in the tree room, one person enters the tree to search for and kill a mob that opens up the altar to progress

the other players kill the soul mobs to open up rooms in the tree for the other player to search around

[last jacinth]

I was just killing mobs in the outside area because I wasn't too sure what else to do

[quick horizon]

its probably the most complex raid room of all and if you go into the tree it does take some learning to understand the layout

[quick horizon]

theres the two stationary blue mobs semi-closed off by walls which give you a "soul" when killed

you then take that soul and stand on the altar and after 5 seconds it opens up rooms within the tree for the other player to progress

[last jacinth]

I did get a soul a couple times, so I at least knew to stand in the altar when I got that

[quick horizon]

i think it has instructions like all other rooms but its still pretty difficult to understand when first starting

[last jacinth]

The instructions didn't help too much - though the fast pace may have contributed to that. The instructions in the room where you go to different areas to feed a void hole (the one with the parkour on the left) had the text lines overlaid on each other, making it harder to read

[quick horizon]

bug probably

at the end of the day its still one of the generic resource rooms across all raids though so not too hard to understand

[last jacinth]

For the nameless anomaly boss. Unfortunately, I did die on all 3 runs - the first 2 was when I was "being watched" and quickly died. Fortunately, I was alive for 90% of the fight on the 3rd run. I think a big damage dealer mage died, so I was able to fully absorb the fight on the 3rd run - took around 3 minutes?

Seems to be a matter of a lot of walking/running, and playing reactively to when the watched text pops up on screen and charging out of there. I did get a bit close, because he didn't seem too bad once I understood the attacks. Apparently, there is this very dangerous leap he does. Maybe that killed me on the 3rd run. Not sure

[viral locust]

Haha of course it did

https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/raid-instructions-revamp.306198/

[last jacinth]

There were times where when the blue skeleton guy hit me, it wasn't too bad - like with these dark hands that followed me, and other times he would hit me and I would almost die/die

Maybe it was the denial of freedom attack that killed me. I recall seeing more skull heads as I went past him

You can probably guess what I think of the % damage randomly being on moves that don't seem to have a good reason to deal % damage

[viral locust]

What attacks

The eye laser?

[quick horizon]

just a bunch of random attacks used to have a bit of true damage like the eyeballs that chase you

[last jacinth]

That seems like a special attack that is justified having it, but I don't know. Maybe the watched is intended to be a killing attack if you don't react. Even after beating him 3 times and now reading this wiki page, there are still things I'm unsure about

[quick horizon]

i think lumia changed/removed most of them though? but i dont really know

[last jacinth]

The following purple eyes still seem to deal a lot of damage, but those got easy once I understood them

[quick horizon]

watched is very definitively meant to be true damage

[languid shore]

watched is very fair = true dmg ok

[quick horizon]

the eyes i know for sure used to deal some true damage and i think the dot puddles as well and maybe some other attacks but i think lumia said she changed most of the non watched stuff but i dont really know which and to what extent since i dont play anymore

[viral locust]

I wish watched was more… more

It’s an attack that had some really good potential to encourage teamwork by the party communicating to each other on where to stand and where not to in order to prevent collateral damage

Unfortunately the arena is too big for this so it just becomes a “walk in literally any direction” simulator

[quick horizon]

so sad i was not invited to the cruuk raids

[languid shore]

patch not live yet

[quick horizon]

well this is from a while ago i think

[last jacinth]

You said you haven't played, so I didn't want to bother you

[quick horizon]

i know she has more changes planned for 2.1

[languid shore]

most of the october stuff got delayed to 2.1

[quick horizon]

fair enough i would not have wanted to join the non tna ones tbh

[quick horizon]

i see well im just a bit out of the loop then

but i do know she planned to change the true damage at least

[last jacinth]

As I said, it's weird. I almost want to say he's easy once I understand him - even the watched I got used to, but it still seems like he has sudden moments of crazyness. I don't know if this is misaimed, maybe I'll find all of him easy if I did it again. Does he actually sometimes leap without warning, dealing lots of damage?

[quick horizon]

the main telegraph for his leap attack is audio (i think it has a visual cue too but its incredibly difficult to notice) and because of the way sounds work in minecraft sometimes it can be overridden or something

im not actually well versed in how minecraft functions but from what other people have explained before, apparently there can be too many other sounds and not be space for his telegraph or something

the sound is an ender dragon roar if you remembered that at all

and i know from experience that sometimes you wont hear it before he jumps

generally tna as a fight is pretty simple, its designed to heavily favor high mobility builds and archetypes (for better or for worse) and if you do meet that requirement, then most of his attacks are pretty easy to dodge

his most threatening and most central attack is for sure his leap, and serves as a mobility check and if you fail to meet that requirement then youll be forced to take heavy damage

[last jacinth]

Oh is it that same leap that makes all the void holes

[quick horizon]

yep

personally i really love audio telegraphs because it's easy to make unique ones for individual script spells that dont rely on the standard yml spell telegraph but it's a shame that they have technical issues

[last jacinth]

That wasn't even an issue - and I took the -40% walk speed thing on 2 runs. Maybe it was because he never aimed for me(?). I keep being unsure. Maybe he is almost perfectly fine

[quick horizon]

yeah if he doesnt target you then generally youll be fine

besides the void holes he doesnt really have any arena wide spells like some of the other raid bosses

[last jacinth]

I think I saw him briefly stop as well before doing the leap?

[quick horizon]

probably because the person he was targeting stayed in one place

he always keeps moving except for during watched but lumia wanted to make it so stops before his leap for 2.1

[viral locust]

An attack as devastating and sudden as TNA’s dash shouldn’t rely on only audio telegraphs in the first place

[quick horizon]

has your opinion on general raid layouts and concepts changed at all by doing them all

you should also rank which ones were your favorites

[viral locust]

(I know Lumi is working on this don’t worry)

[last jacinth]

I have a last question, where do the purple eyes that follow you come from

[quick horizon]

the boss poops them out

he poops them out before watched phase and just randomly sometimes

[last jacinth]

I see

[languid shore]

stops only to do the water wave

[last jacinth]

I almost forgot about that. It was funny seeing that juxtaposed with all the custom stuff

[quick horizon]

thats the only normal spell he has i think

not really sure why its even there

[last jacinth]

That's the impression I have too

[quick horizon]

i dont think it deals damage either and is exclusively for knockback

[normal cedar]

It deals damage. Can confirm

~400 damage a hit, which was done when wave could hit upwards of like. 40-60 times if you caught it at a bad angle. that's been fixed since but the damage is still pretty low.

[last jacinth]

Favorite raid? I don't even know. I just can't think of a way to order them. They were tolerable, acceptable, slightly fun at best. Would the nameless anomaly be my favorite if I did it again now that I know it and without someone rushing through the light room? I don't know. Do I like the Orphion/Canyon ones better? I don't know. Did I get lucky with the random players I played with in the Orphion raid not being adolescent? Could that have influenced my opinion otherwise?

None of those bosses are getting higher than 3/5

[quick horizon]

fair probably

what is a 4/5 and 5/5 boss though

[last jacinth]

Most of the boss altars, and Skien's revenant is probably getting a 5

[quick horizon]

i see

a lot of the boss altars (and yml bosses in general) just kind of blur together for me but if i had to pick a favorite id probably choose adrenophage

[viral locust]

Don’t a lot of people hate Skien Boss Altar

[last jacinth]

I only felt the blurring near the end. They do fairly stick out between each other otherwise

Is it the fight or the item obtain process

[quick horizon]

probably the item it takes

pretty inoffensive boss otherwise id say

[last jacinth]

it is WynnCraft custom for the other 3 party members to give 1 Tol rune each to the party leader per raid attempt. -Wynncraft wiki nameless anomaly page. Are you kidding me? Is that why people acted like I committed a fucking social taboo when I gave them more than 1 rune as a response of not knowing what they wanted from me? When they spoke to me, I never replied, mostly confused.

I've been trying to make the player interactions not influence my opinion. I am very glad that there has been nice people here, because just that brief direct contact with the system of a repeatable endgame I stayed far away from, the unfamiliar players that swim in that river, that brief period of direct interaction with random players was already very unpleasant, and confirms the dislike I already had beforehand. It is good that I now better understand how to keep my favorite communities safer

[quick horizon]

are you referring to this

[last jacinth]

Yes, and also confusing another person when I gave them more than 1 rune. Even when I wasn't the target of attention, I paid close attention to the way people described themselves as being "carried", "what a good game this is" in sardonic cadence, AFKing on spots as an aloof showcase of skill, the actions - like that person in the light room. It was actually only a very small amount of such behaviors experienced, and that is already a lot for me. I am glad, because I know how bad it can get

[quick horizon]

personally I think you’re maybe overreacting a bit as while there is absolutely toxicity within raids, I don’t think that specific interaction was anything to be upset about as like selvut said, players just tend to not give more runes than necessary and so it would be surprising to be given 8

those phrases aren’t inherently used aggressively or negatively and I don’t think they were here

obviously I also wasn’t there for some of those other interactions but afking in certain parts of raids like tna and tcc is pretty reasonable as you wait for someone or something

[languid shore]

i wonder if afking refers to the first room with the stump

[last jacinth]

In grootslang, there was someone that said they "usually afk during this part". When someone directly announced they were AFKing, I interpreted as emphasizing a showcasing of skill, or a lack of care

[quick horizon]

as for the person with the light skipping to the end, it’s generally pretty common for grinders to do this and assume others will follow suit

[languid shore]

i asked in chat to not skip, the other person who died was partied with them pretty sure

overall funny situation

[quick horizon]

not saying it was the right move on their part, just trying to give some insight for cruuk

i wouldn’t say it’s inherently a toxic act if they’re unaware someone is new to the raid but it could be

[languid shore]

ehh, unless u are in a tryhard party (not pfinder) the normal route is the same in terms of time, there is really no reason to skip

inb4 invisible walls

[quick horizon]

it’s absolutely faster to movement spell towards the top instead of jumping up the platforms but for the average player who does not run the raid hundreds of times a day, it would not matter

[languid shore]

its bottlenecked behind slowest player

[last jacinth]

I am aware my reaction is an edge case, but it's more natural for me with the opinions I've developed in the past couple years. That being an exceptional dislike and distrust of live service games, their communities, but this mainly includes large communities as a whole. I have made sure to not tangentialize about my live service dislike here too much, it would not be productive. One of the reasons for this is to finalize thoughts on the non-super live service stuff, like the bosses.

I am glad that this thread seems to be tucked away from the rest of this large discord. I stick to small communities these days

[river pecan]

i find it a bit strange that you specifically have a negative outlook on the communities of live service games, when non-live service games are subject to the same toxicity that live service games can have

afaik there is nothing inherent to live service game design that makes the community more toxic

[last jacinth]

The systems that can breed such player behaviors are not exclusive to live service games, but are ones that are generally present in said games - a honeypot

[languid shore]

live service game has profs

[river pecan]

such as?

[quick horizon]

all multiplayer environments with aspects of competition or optimization tend to be primed for toxicity

[river pecan]

multiplayer environments are not necessary live service, however

[quick horizon]

of course multiplayer and live service are not inherently the same thing but generally live service games are also multiplayer

yeah I was getting to that lmao but I was on my phone

[river pecan]

minecraft for example is itself a live service game, but you can play it in singleplayer all you want

[last jacinth]

Leaderboards, competitive elements (pvp, systems of being "better" than others), virtual economies (this is a big one), things that require player interactions for important rewards, etc. I've managed to find communities for pvp content that don't encourage bad behaviors, and it's usually been grass roots stuff that lack the aforementioned, so it's not that multiplayer is inherently the main metric

[quick horizon]

true, I was just kind of assuming that cruuk was referring to multiplayer live service games specifically

[last jacinth]

Yes, I have found many nice MC places that lack these things, and many bad places that include those aforementioned things

These things that are not exclusive to live service, but are almost always found there

[river pecan]

i mean i dont mean to undermine your experiences but it just sounds like you dont like interacting with the average player of any game

[last jacinth]

Yes. After over a decade of formerly being someone who used to frequent these experiences of all kinds, I have developed a dislike for it

[quick horizon]

im not sure that’s particularly fair but I won’t push on it any further either

[river pecan]

^ in my experience wynn has always had quite a friendly community

[quick horizon]

i will say that while I wouldn’t agree it’s completely toxic, wynn raids definitely did get a bit more aggressive/standard demanding in 2.0 than it was in 1.20

[river pecan]

sure sometimes people assume a certain level of knowledge during raids, but this is the same community that regularly hosts scavenger hunts and giveaways, and once gathered a big group of people in a vc to watch someone burn mythic boots

[quick horizon]

probably from a number of factors, being that player count in general like tripled in 2.0, tna in general can be completed way faster than tcc could and has very strong le rewards, and general gameplay with the ability tree changing and allowing for a lot more minmaxing and optimization

[last jacinth]

That only makes my negative perception of it worse. I view Wynn's community negatively, not for a special reason, but just the usual inevitabilities of introducing these elements - raid audiences and mindsets that were attracted when those were added, along with my high aversity to those elements, etc. I.E. if this is still a good example of a community, I don't want to see what others are like

[quick horizon]

I’m genuinely not sure you’d find any communities that are completely devoid of any and all toxicity unless they have staggeringly low player numbers

[river pecan]

maybe you can elaborate abit more about these encounters?

the runes i'm confident is just an expression of surprise that you would give so many runes, which is why they gave a bunch back before disbanding the party

"being carried" is usually an expression of praise towards your teammates who are doing most of the work, so i find it a bit strange that you call it sardonic

[last jacinth]

Are you sure. Across all games, it's something that seems to have negative connotations on both sides - one person saying it being very aloof, with no care to what they're doing, or an accusation by a team towards someone not putting in the work

[quick horizon]

across the games I’ve played, if someone says they’re being carried themselves it’s generally always intended to be a compliment towards their team

[river pecan]

• to carry a game is to be the most contributing player.
• to be carried (by someone) is to say that this someone is playing well
• to be carried (without a specific person) is to say the rest of the team is playing well

[quick horizon]

it’s entirely different if someone calls someone else carried which I think is what you may be thinking of

[river pecan]

^ if you say someone else is being carried, then you are saying the rest of said person's team is making up for their deficiencies

[last jacinth]

Our experiences may be different, because I have never seen it contextualized positively

[river pecan]

thats quite an uncommon way to use the word though. there are much better ways to claim someone is not pulling their weight

[last jacinth]

Toxicity flatly isn't a turnaway, it's specifically the ones created by the things mentioned. E.G. MMO grinders, virtual economy people, competitive leaderboard people, disgruntled people quick to anger on the development state of the aforementioned, etc. Another turnaway is really large communities

[languid shore]

yeah i believe it was positive in the context, nor have i seen it used in any other way than positively in wynncraft. i think the poor impression lies not in the wording itself, but it entailing lack of teamwork put into a successful run; that and the light room example. what do you think?

[silver charm]

tna is also significantly more min-maxable, you can only do so much to speed up holding a platform and afking for 1 minute

[languid shore]

WHY DIDNT U TNA WITH US

[quick horizon]

yeah I said it can be completed way faster

[silver charm]

zero watched farming tomes for a friend

[silver charm]

i mean it can also be completed way slower, the range of values is honesly just bigger imo

[river pecan]

i'm reading the rest of the stuff you listed, but "what a good game this is" requires alot of context to analyse

[silver charm]

i was gonna join but the bro needed his skill point tomes

also i dont think coming on ragepockets would be the best idea for a cruuk first raid

[languid shore]

set tomeseek

[silver charm]

what if we actually got him a zero watched party as his first run LOL

fuck now you got me thinking about what coudlve been ..

[languid shore]

i was afraid that would happen

[silver charm]

@last jacinth you wanna experience the silliest thing in the game and watch the final boss get melted in 5 seconds?

[last jacinth]

Is that when he does not do the watched attack

[silver charm]

yeah he just flops over and fucking Dies

[languid shore]

lumi will save us

[silver charm]

honestly 0 watched is fucking hilarious even if it breaks the balancing convention of any game by any metric

[last jacinth]

I'm sure it is funny, but I'm not interested

[viral locust]

To be completely far if someone I’m about to raid with gives me more than 1 Tol I would be as equally confused as they are

Because splitting the price is essentially like, an unspoken culture/ behavior at this point

People have been doing it for years now and new players will just have to get used to this unofficial rule

[last jacinth]

Well that is why this whole thing has been 1 special occasion. I otherwise stay sheltered in places cut away from live service/competetive/pvp/grind-heavy/similar things

[viral locust]

That being said I’ve ran way too many raids, and I’m sure others have ran hundreds more

I’ve always played with randos from the pfinder, people usually just do their own thing in my own experience

As in, not be toxic and just work together without speaking to one another because everyone knows what to do at this point

[silver charm]

you should try a guild war

[mellow plume]

at the same time i don't think people should assume everyone is aware of every single unspoken rule, especially considering they're unspoken rules

[viral locust]

It isn’t but it’s rare

[last jacinth]

Guild tower is getting a 1/5 alone based on the things I heard about it

[viral locust]

Last raid I did a party member was confused at what to do at the TNA Big Tree Room

Tbh everyone wants to just speedrun through the raid as usual so we managed to squeeze out a win one player down

[languid shore]

too high

[river pecan]

what games do you play nowadays?

[last jacinth]

MC (mods, singleplayer, deep commitment for a particular mod, CTM maps, avoid servers at all costs - well ignoring this occasion, it is a server I was CT in), Deep rock galactic (high exception, avoids most live service pitfalls, ideal, played only solo or with a friend in private lobbies). Other games played: Avoiding live service at all costs, singleplayer-focused, multiplayer only if it's a grassroots community, no AAA

[languid shore]

did you try risk of rain 2?

[last jacinth]

Heard positive things, heard mixed things - though I keep orbiting around very respectable, but insane quality-stingy people. I have a list of games to play, and I've also been working on an unrelated thing

Got a little tangential, anyway.

i'm reading the rest of the stuff you listed, but "what a good game this is" requires alot of context to analyse
This is just referring to when people get very sarcastic about a game and express their issues in this way. Like all those people that post those "the number 1 MMORPG in minecraft" GIFS juxtaposed with an unfortunate and/or unintended event, and anything similar. I know this game has a lot of issues, but this has always been a form of rhetoric I am uninterested in.

Even when the players are completely right, and the developers are truly silly people, I just watch this rhetoric and think "this is probably decreasing the chances of the developers listening to you". Annoying all around

[river pecan]

you realise these are often not actual complaints right?

what i have experienced of this is that people do it to joke about the game's flaws when something unfortunate happens, rather than getting hung up that a bug resulted in their unfair treatment

it is a sarcastic joke yes, but it's sarcasm does not inherently make it serious criticism of the game, if that makes sense

[last jacinth]

Perspective difference again. It's just things I associate with the averse stuff mentioned earlier, along with the other things I have seen players say about CT

[river pecan]

honestly i think that being so quick to assume negative intent is not a very healthy way to interpret online interactions

yes this is a perspective difference in how the two of us interpreted the same message, but at the end of the day the message can only have 1 meaning, which only the person who sent it knows (unless u ask them)

[last jacinth]

Yes, it is unfair to associate random funny GIFS with that, but I have also been including my complete exhaustive experience with the Wynn community, across a guild, trade market subcommunity, and others I have ended up in through various circumstances. Those places, but also bits of this one, have had many people that usually mean their bad attitudes. I see it in non-live service places, but it's been friendly on average.

To cut it short, it's just another inevitibility I associate with live service updating things or other similar things

Less being on the developer's side, and moreso annoyance when players act like this. Fortunately, this is not present in the communities I'm in - including games that update. I notice this behavior with updating live service/competitive games more than other kinds of updating games

Well, playthrough complete. FINAL TIME (not counting when I used to play this server): ~100 hours

Gonna rank the bosses in a bit

[last jacinth]

5/5: Eye, Solar vanguard, Revenant of Skien, Adamastor, Orange Wybel

4/5: Garoth, Redbeard, Bob, Gale, Qira, Theorick in a hunter's calling, Aledar and tasim, Durum protector, The Beast, Vulcor adrenophage, Mining Mech TERA-4M, Corkus Accipientis, Matrojan Idol

3/5: Hashr, Slykaar, Theorick, Corrupter of worlds, Psychomancer, Genesis revorse, Rymek luke, Grand magus, Blade of shade, Panic Zealot, Titanium rat, Death metal, Mechorrupter, Robob, Dr. Legendary, Grootslang?

2.5/5: Canyon collosus, Nameless anomaly
2/5: Witherhead, Arakadicus, Antikythera, most quest bosses, Oceanic judge, Maxie and his bots, Haros, Olux plague doctor, Tribe zombie chief, Mummyboard, Virus doctor, Orange cybel (felt effectively the exact same difficulty-wise), Phoenix prince, Orphion

1/5: Mummy, Lari giving me random frame lag spikes, everything I've heard about guild towers

Congratulations oceanic judge. He has the highest death count at ~5, followed by plague doctor at ~4, and the Beast/Nameless anomaly at ~3 - though Nameless anomaly is a little funny because all the runs were successful, other players finished the run after I died around 25% in (~85-90% on the 3rd run)

[zenith vessel]

gz cruuk :)

it was fun reading along!

[coral bobcat]

this was good

thx cruuk for your time

[last jacinth]

Final summary: This entire thread can only be a short summary of my full exhaustive thoughts are. My thoughts on Wynn can only be something that's either shortly described within a discord post or two, or in 20,000+ words. Ultimately, being exhaustive would be non-productive.

My greater issues with Wynn are my issues with the whole MMORPG/live service genre as a whole. Because this was a server I placed time into, I tried to focus on the non-MMO things I mesh with, like the quests/puzzles/bosses, with the raids being an experiment to get out of my bubble since they have bosses in them. This server will never appeal to me, and that's fine - it wouldn't be terribly contributional to walk into a kitchen, and tell it to stop being a kitchen. That's how much I don't like MMORPGS LOL.

Ignoring the economy, professions, and some other things, it's fine, like a ~6/10. The main fun I found was figuring out the harder bosses - though most of that fun was knowing how to dodge heavy charge, some puzzles, planning out my build with a clear vision, some unintentionally funny dialogue, and some jank. You can look at it positively: Someone who now really, really doesn't like MMORPGS still found some fun. Playing this still further affirmed the reasons I dislike the genre, though

I want to talk about one facet of live service that I hope this server prepares for: Death. The servers can't be on forever. It will happen. It's not a matter of if, but when.
However, something important I've learned is that death does not have to be a consequence. There are communities I'm in and/or aware of for things that are "past their prime", when that sensation is only relevant within the purview of people who only measure something's quality by the metric of how "popular" it is right now in the current moment, or people who go crazy over player numbers. Even when small, these communities are still active via things like passion for the subject.

These subjects include games in the 90s/2000s people make mods for/have grassroots competitions, or fan continuations of former live service games.

Nothing on the internet dies - unless it is killed or not archived. That's the conclusion I've come to. I.E. once that day comes for this server, I would hope Wynn has the source code saved, and releases it or something I don't know. Me and many other people have made things for this server, and if you let death be a consequence, and have the actual content/assets/code/builds vanish along with the server, well that won't be very good, but you don't have to let it be a consequence. At least, I hope so

[quick horizon]

with all due respect i think ive seen less of inherent issues with mmos as a whole and more just... a dislike for other players

wynn will one day inevitably shut down, and that day will be sad, but players generally invest more time into live services games over the course of their lifespans than normal one and done release games, so i dont know if id truly consider it a purely negative aspect

fortunately, we still probably have a lot of time left

[languid shore]

i agree Death bossfight needs to be prepared for

if u like dodging heavy charge (and spells in general), on the spot thinking, and spellcasting i heavily suggest Risk of Rain 2 as your next adventure

[quick horizon]

unironically a huge part of what makes death fight difficult or not is simply where he spawns in the arena and i find that really funny

[last jacinth]

My habit? Yes, I do not like public servers and unfamiliar players. The reason I got outward with it was because the interaction became required once the time came for raids, and I was always slightly hesitant to bug people in this thread. Slight theatrics on my part of the reaction - habit I can't control. There are things I dislike way more about MMOs, but I've deliberately prevented myself from talking about them because it ultimately wouldn't go anywhere

[quick horizon]

do find some of the boss rankings a bit odd, although it's mostly subjective anyways

dont personally find the huge multi-stage bosses like skien/accipientis/idol particularly interesting

would personally bring colossus to 3 and anomaly and orphion to 4 but im also a bit biased as a raid player

[wary bear]

i think i'd have liked to see your thoughts on corrupted galleon's graveyard

[last jacinth]

Are there big differences with it compared to regular. I do wish people told me that.

MAYBE I'll come back again when Fruma releases to check out whatever's been changed/added, assuming I don't have anything else to do. This whole playthrough was slightly on the speedy side because I've been also working on something unrelated

[wary bear]

it is fairly significantly different

[last jacinth]

Well damn I was bound to miss something. It'll have to wait for the future

[wary bear]

2.1 (the next upcoming big update) might be a good time to revisit

[misty dune]

its the most different corrupted dungeon i'd say

[peak spire]

CLS

[normal cedar]

y'know, for better and for worse.

[last jacinth]

Is it often deemed harder than eldritch outlook by most players

[normal cedar]

It was decried as incredibly buggy and due to GG's overreliance, or really its downright ABUSE of minigame mechanics in favor of actual meaningful gameplay, CGG had nowhere to go for its challenge factor aside from level-scaling and making minigames ostensibly tougher or more exacting. It does some nifty things with the boss as I recall, but I can't stomach playing the rest of the dungeon to get to the boss in the first place. I think many of the bugs have been fixed but I keep seeing people mention skips and issues just often enough that I have to wonder.

I vaguely recall you being okay with GG, so it might be worth trying CGG as for better or worse it does try to do new things.

[forest maple]

the boss fight is really cool, however unfortunately with 2.0 damage i killed him too fast to see any of the cool moves the first 5 times i did the dungeon 😭

[languid shore]

the corrupted cannon feels nicer to use outside of the dungeon 👍

[normal cedar]

See what I mean? Taking the cannon out of the dungeon is a bug

[last jacinth]

I just finished a very large unrelated thing (the word part of it at least), so as celebration I just decided to pop in really quick to see corrupted galleon's graveyard. It's OK. The dungeon merchant is a villager instead of the hooded guys. I don't think anything broke. I think I saw every room this time, looking at the wiki.

Bomberman room is slightly silly for being new combat, had to get used to it since I didn't see it in the regular version. Otherwise easy. It took me a bit to realize you had to down the hole when it opens - I kept trying to find the key. The TNT does hurt if it explodes on you. Are you supposed to use movement spells in that parkour room? I had to combo it with the cannon after I kept barely being out of reach of the platform.

Corrupted Redbeard was nice, though he was easy. My fully finished build and the couple tomes I have probably contributed to this heavily. Even ignoring that, regular Redbeard seemed more snappy with his regular spells and custom attacks compared to this one, having custom projectiles be TNT that takes a bit to explode and the slow-ish dash attack. There were times where I stopped attacking to make sure I didn't miss anything from him. The most damage I took was from a TNT in the bomberman room.

Besides the boss, difficulty adjustments, and parkour, it did seem largely the same. The dungeon and boss go in the exact same places I put the regular versions

[river pecan]

wait this is a bug?

[delicate pewter]

Lol it's obviously a bug

[coral bobcat]

Can I get a glitched cannon of my own without being banned?