#Claim to Heroism Feedback Thread

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

midnight inlet
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Feedback for the Claim to Heroism game mode, similar to the previously made Banish The Beyond one.

real eagle
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first Troll

tulip stone
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Banish the Beyond was awesome thanks for asking

real eagle
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heroes are too weak and can't destroy all 5 castles unless your opponents completely lack braincells

midnight inlet
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Some of the ideas that I have currently on my mind:

1. Nerf Bow Range

It is completely outrageous to me that the bow weapon has 16 blocks range. Even without the Song's boost, the buff is crazy, especially in hero phase. 3 players who have bow can easily take down any hero without any trouble just by shooting their bow from afar, due to each hero's attack range being 8 blocks. And, if we do include the 30% Weapon range boost from the Song Of Power, it becomes 21 block range, which is just insane.

Solution: My suggestion is nerfing the bow range down to 12 blocks. This way it will still be the highest ranged weapon out of all, but more balanced than the current state of it.

2. A bug with Yellow and Cyan materials Starting at -1/?

*Recently I have noticed that in some of my games the materials required for yellow (Citadel's Whisper) and Cyan's (Ruptured Time) materials begin with -1 instead of 0/?. It is pretty irritating since you now need to get one extra material for it to count. *

E.G: I have -1/3 Cyan materials, the boss in the middle drops 2 materials on death, but when I kill it, I have 1/3 materials instead of 2/3. Not so cool, huh?

Solution: Fix it, I guess?

That's pretty much it that I have for now, maybe I can catch some more bugs later on, but currently those 2 stand out the most. If any of you have more to share, please do.

Thanks!

bronze sandal
midnight inlet
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alright thanks a lot

bronze sandal
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and yeah i'm aware heroes are a little too weak rn

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it was something we suspected would be an issue on release w/ all the player buffs in phase 2, but we didnt have enough testing to come up with a solution

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will be looking into ways to fix it

ivory helm
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when getting materials for upgrade, most of the time you will just run around waiting for grey ones to spawn since you always have more than enough of other colours

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killing other players also doesn't feel very rewarding

bronze sandal
ivory helm
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yea, it takes some effort to kill players but you get like 3 grey and 1 yellow, I found it better to use that time to just farm instead

bronze sandal
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the base steal % was originally 50% but that felt too punishing, so it was lowered by default to 33%

ivory helm
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also, does attacking not break dagger's invis? I fought this one guy who when invis and keep shooting me with a bow

mental flax
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If I get shot with Thymele one more time I'm gonna lose it

bronze sandal
ivory helm
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it's really annoying to fight against

bronze sandal
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if it doesn't that's a bug

ivory helm
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ah I see, I thought it's similar to assassin

dry shard
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i like game

low stump
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It's fun, but I have found many bugs

bronze sandal
low stump
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Indeed

bronze sandal
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ok

low stump
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Mine now.

bronze sandal
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ok

dry shard
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only bug ive really found is the -1 materials at the start but lex is fixing that

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personally i felt like in teams of equal or at least relative skill, players already had the advantage against the hero last year before the buff to get materials each time the hero destroys a castle

real eagle
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then again the hero is usually the best player in pfinder so

dry shard
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so now it's gotten really rough when you can pretty easily max out fortitude and get 4 hp and the other really strong abilities

real eagle
dry shard
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even when im basically hitting all my shots on hero and dodging as best i can, players can usually just outright out dps me lol

real eagle
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yea

dry shard
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maybe im just biased since i always go for ascension but imo hero should just innately be stronger and players should really need to work for a win, that way it adds way more gravity and meaning to ascending

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bow is definitely problematic but honestly with enough upgrades both spear and dagger are also pretty good against the hero

real eagle
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i mean the faster you ascend, the less people get to upgrade Troll

dry shard
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usually not enough really'

real eagle
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but yeah the hero does definitely need some buffs lol

dry shard
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it's especially annoying how you can just sit outside of castle range with bow and snipe at siegfried

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doesnt feel like theres a whole lot of counterplay to it

real eagle
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yeah

bronze sandal
dry shard
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you can get 4

bronze sandal
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no?

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shouldnt be able to

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you used to be able to but thta got removed last year

dry shard
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huh

bronze sandal
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fortitude goes +5 charges +5 charges +1 health -3s respawn

dry shard
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i remember it existing last year but did not know it was supposed to be removed and like

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ive definitely resurrected on siegfried and failed to one shot players before

bronze sandal
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hm

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strange

dry shard
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personally id start by giving heroes a bit of a blanket hp buff like 50 for lari and tisaun and an extra resurrection for siegfried

mental flax
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just out of confirmation, the revive damage buff was active when that happened, and you did actually hit them right?
Which might sound really redundant to ask, but some of Siegfred's stuff is a bit weird like that

dry shard
bronze sandal
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on the topic of the bow, i played a game with it and i think the reason the range is such a problem (or at least one of the reasons) is the cooldown on the bow

dry shard
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especially since i one shot another player immediately afterwards

bronze sandal
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and volley is fairly strong as well

dry shard
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maybe but thats also a bit of a problem with how much fortitude you can stack for cooldown

bronze sandal
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yeah song of power is quite strong

dry shard
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is it song of power (i forget the names of most of the songs im gonna be honest)

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i just remember the upgrades by where theyre located

bronze sandal
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agility is speed + recharge time, fortitude is charges + health, power is range + cooldown, glory is misc

mental flax
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-main attack hits anything within 15 kilometers of your crosshair
-alt fire hits anything within a 130 something degree range ahead of you
what a weapon

dry shard
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volley is strong but idk if its that bad, at the end of the day it exists just to make landing a shot easier

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you could just use spear or dagger for that

bronze sandal
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i might do some nerfs to song of power

mental flax
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dagger range always feels smaller than I want it to be
and the volley range always seems bigger than I would think it is

dry shard
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ah it is song of power i got it mixed up with fortitude oops

bronze sandal
dry shard
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huh i guess 4 hp is gone idk why i failed to one shot on siegfried before because i was certain it was immediately after a resurrection

bronze sandal
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yea idk

fallow pollen
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lex thanks for being cool and responding to feedback like

dry shard
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im gonna be honest i think the materials awarded after castle destruction could go

bronze sandal
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maybe

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i had them there to incentivize buying upgrades in phase 2

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but it might be that people just generally buy most of what they need in phase 1 already

dry shard
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i mean fair enough but it still just seems really problematic

mental flax
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might be helpful, but usually people already have most upgrades sorted out in hero phase

dry shard
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eh

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if you play well enough you can ascend in 7-8 minutes (6 minutes if youre playing against really inexperienced players) and by then you probably wont have that many upgrades

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at least, not the really expensive ones

bronze sandal
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i can definitely start off by just lowering the amount given

dry shard
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sounds good

mental flax
dry shard
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15

bronze sandal
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it is 15

mental flax
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ok yeah
took me around 8 minutes the last few times around

bronze sandal
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after 5mins resources get multiplied by 1.5, after 10mins resources are 2x

dry shard
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also just heavily depends on the party and if other players are actively going out of their way to fight and slow each other down

bronze sandal
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or should i still lower it to 12 alongside that

dry shard
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what is its cooldown right now

bronze sandal
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1.5s

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with 2 charge cost

dry shard
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16 is still kind of egregious

bronze sandal
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yeah

dry shard
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reduce it to 12 increase the cd and reduce the charges per attack

mental flax
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I just think the difference in ranges could be toned down a little bit
the wand has the second highest with only 10 and the dagger has a ~delectable~ 4 block radius

dry shard
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my strat for ascending is to get 13+ talespun essence and a heart of the outlands to buy fortitude 1 and then a weapon (if you buy fortitude 1 after weapon it wont have the added charges) and farm primarily talespuns and stones and outlands

bronze sandal
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it has 6

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the dagger

mental flax
bronze sandal
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OH dagger

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fk

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yeah dagger is 4 blocks

dry shard
bronze sandal
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i dont think dagger cd is actually 2s

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nvm it is

dry shard
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unfortunately the -1 bug is fucking with it though

bronze sandal
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its cause the spent number isnt being set to 0 properly until you actually spend them

dry shard
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i think i noticed that sometimes when i buy power 2

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but theres not really anything to spend ruptured time on

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wand is so terrible i think you can maybe slightly decrease the time it takes for meteor to land (maybe also increase meteor's cooldown if necessary) and let it melee attack while meteor is active

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does siegfried's main attack pierce enemies i dont think it does

bronze sandal
bronze sandal
dry shard
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awesome

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while youre at it it would be nice for tisaun's special to be like that too

bronze sandal
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i did that already yep

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not pushed but its done

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im not sure why it was like that in the first place

dry shard
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ok i just another game where i subconciously walked outside of spawn after ascending and didnt get a weapon

fluid mountain
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also kind of late to this but i think 33% of resources on death is too forgiving, it almost feels like just a small price to pay for an instant tp back to your castle

dry shard
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you get materials whenever hero destroys a castle

fluid mountain
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ik

dry shard
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just buy it when u spawn it takes like 2 seconds

fluid mountain
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im not saying u cant, im just pointing out an average player does not care or notice and would rather just go back to fighting

dry shard
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ok

fluid mountain
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ok

dry shard
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parrying meteors on tisaun wasnt killing one shotting players either

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and resurrecting on siegfried still wasnt one shotting players either

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idk whats wrong with it

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maybe tisaun isnt as bad as i thought...

bronze sandal
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hmm

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odd

bronze sandal
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so that makes some sense

dry shard
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huh

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i did not know this i guess that explains it

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but i swear something was wrong with siegfried

bronze sandal
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i believe you

dry shard
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nope dont ever believe me on anything

topaz folio
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i am shit at the game but it's fun 👍

civic dagger
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might as well comment this
I haven't played this year so I could it could be fixed and I just don't know, but last year I was finding that Song of Power 4 didn't actually do anything; I would count my hits on the Hero sometimes and then look at my total damage at the end or look at the Hero's health bar (don't remember which because it's been a year) and I noticed that it never did 2 damage, nor were there ever any players in phase 1 being confused as to how they died in one less hit than they should have

bronze sandal
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you might be right, lol

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i was thinking the same thing in a game today

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i think it works on bosses but not on players

civic dagger
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that would make sense, after a few games I definitely stopped looking at actual boss hp and just went off of how many hits it would take, especially late enough into the game to have song of power 4

bronze sandal
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but i also think that 50% chance to deal +1 damage is a bit too strong

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so im considering just changing what the final level does entirely

civic dagger
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it definitely would be super strong, so it's probably for the better it didn't work

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ok looking at this it would have been really funny for me if song of power 4 had worked last year as then I might have ended up doing enough damage solo to kill the hero in one of my games (assuming it was Tisaun, which it probably was)

image.png
bronze sandal
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lol

civic dagger
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my average damage was apparently 14.8 so that game was not my normal performance, but it's funny to think about

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oh yea another reason to change song of power 4 might be that I think it would be outright weaker against Siegfried, because if he was on 1hp, the double damage would presumably get voided by the reset

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unless the reset is actually just "add 4 hp" rather than set to 4

sage maple
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Oh, oops, I didn't notice this.

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Minor proofreading:

First information menu: "When a player ascends in a game, they'll be offered a choice of one of two three heroes." - There's now three, so this should be changed.
Information on Ruptured Time: "The Remnants are located directly beneath the central tower of the Citadel. Oddly, the Remnants does not don't seem to notice any players' presence, and does not attack." - The pluralisation is inconsistent here.

frozen sage
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could we get hit sounds that the attacker hears added for all attacks? sort of like the ding sound when u hit a mob with a bow in vanilla

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in spirits minigame this was easy to tell because blood particles + hit sound, but in heroes minigame it seems not many attacks actually have hit sounds, so it's much harder to tell if you're doing something

dry shard
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there is a sound for when you hit other players and the hero already

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also some particles

frozen sage
dry shard
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maybe its your settings

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i hear it perfectly fine

sage maple
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I think that the information menu should include the maximum time in each round and a rough CT estimate of how long a game lasts.

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It would be helpful.

dry shard
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very minor qol but can you add a gold to diamond token trade here

2024-03-24_19.03.37.png
bronze sandal
frozen sage
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aah

bronze sandal
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i can add a ding for the attacker though

mental flax
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Yeah it was a little jarring not getting a sound while shooting people with the bow

Perhaps that is the real drawback to using the bow saltroll

frozen sage
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i had the same issue with the wand and most of the secondary attacks tbh

dry shard
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idk even when I hit someone at like max range with spear with upgraded power I can always hear it

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i think u should just stop using bow it’s cringe smh …

real eagle
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heros need a buff crying
even if i get 5 or 6 min ascends they can still just dps me

mental flax
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range always seems like the issue
who are the most annoying people when I'm hero but the people in the back with the bows
how do I get highest damage on the hero but with the bow and some devious squire sword usage

most of the time they can wait out of range and still spam you out

dry shard
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i find tisaun the best now after his buffs and lari nerfs

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i think we probably shouldve just actually buffed all heroes to old lari level

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suggestions:

tisaun: 45 -> 50 hp
lari: 45 -> 50 hp, reduce main attack cooldown back to 1s, possibly re-add instant charge
siegfried: +1 resurrection, increase width of main attack

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could maybe use some more buffs after that, but with bow being nerfed and i think lex saying that materials awarded per castle reduction maybe it would be enough

real eagle
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lari is definitely the most powerful but not powerful enough to get a nerf

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oh with bow and material nerf then yea might be fine

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oh i didnt read correctly lol

dry shard
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i love playing siegfried but honestly having to be so precise with it without having any base piercing is kind of brutal especially if players get agility 4

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i feel like my aim with it is pretty decent but idk it's rough sometimes especially against people abusing range since thats his main weakness

dry shard
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i think people are also just stupid and dont realize to not attack me when im using parry

real eagle
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honestly im just used to playing lari

dry shard
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tisaun is also just easier because you dont need to aim

real eagle
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lari special just being a napalm grenade is fun

dry shard
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i dont get what it is with people not realizing to not step into the damage cloud and not attacking tisaun during parry

real eagle
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/particles off Troll

dry shard
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maybe

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honestly song of power range could probably be slightly nerfed as well

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from +10% to like 5% or 7.5%

frozen sage
dry shard
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idk then

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i use spear which has higher range than those and I can still hear it

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not saying they shouldn’t add a better sound or whatever but i haven’t heard of anyone else having this problem idk

frozen sage
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i did ask in cth party chat and a bunch of people agreed that they also do not hear the hit sounds

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i think not having heard of anyone else having this problem is more a function of said people not knowing it is a problem (assuming that the lack of hit sound is intentional or due to time constraint) and so not being vocal about it

dry shard
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🤷

bronze sandal
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there 100% is a hit sound

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it's entity.generic.hurt for a 1 hp hit, and entity.player.attack.knockback + entity.player.attack.crit for a 2+ hp hit

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has a volume of 2 so it plays up to 32 blocks away

lusty fractal
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btw what are the balance changes compared to the last year? I've noticed that heroes have more health :/

sage maple
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Just had an odd idea.

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What if one of the festival merchants sold actual souvenirs of the minigame?

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Replicas of the five weapons you can use.

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Would be interesting.

civic dagger
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The 4 weapons you buy use the Seraphim skin from Heroes crates, and the Squire's Blade uses the high-level rainbow dagger skin, so unless you want them to have some cosmetic function, this seems useless

sage maple
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Hm.

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It feels like it would work thematically. Cheap, off-brand versions of the items.

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Completely useless. 1-3 damage or none at all.

dry shard
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considering that they’re crate cosmetics they will want to keep them exclusive to that so people buy them

bronze sandal
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yeah ^

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also, i'm looking to get a balance patch out soon. here's the current planned changelog

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Upcoming balance changes:

  • Song of Power 1-3: Reduced weapon range per level (10% -> 5%)
  • Song of Power 4: Replaced effect entirely (-20% Weapon Cooldown for 3s when damaged)
  • Song of Glory 3: Replaced effect entirely (+3❤ heal on player kill)
  • Bow Main Attack: Increased cooldown (1.5s -> 2s), decreased range (16 blocks -> 12 blocks), decreased charge cost (2 -> 1)
  • Bow Special: Increased cooldown (2.5s -> 3s)
  • Wand Special: Detached cooldown from regular attack cooldowns, like the Dagger Special. Increased cooldown (2.5s -> 3s). Increased damage again (2 -> 3)
  • Lari:
    • Increased max hp (45 -> 50)
    • Decreased main attack cooldown (1.5s -> 1s)
    • Decreased special cooldown (8s -> 5s)
  • Tisaun:
    • Increased max hp (45 -> 50)
    • Decreased special duration (4s -> 3s)
    • Decreased special cooldown (15s -> 9s)
  • Siegfried:
    • Increased main attack hitbox size
    • Decreased special cooldown (8s -> 6s)
    • Increased max resurrection uses (8 -> 9)
  • Resources on Castle Destruction: Reduced to 8 Talespun Essence and 1 of all boss resources
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if any of these changes feel bad, let me know and we can talk about em

sage maple
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Ooh, Song of Glory 3 looks real good.

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I don't usually bother with Glory so that's a pretty nice reason to bother.

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What happens if, after the Hero is defeated, the last castle gets destroyed?

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Because the health keeps ticking down after death. If they die right at, like, 2, what results from that?

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Ah, I found a glitch already.

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I logged out while in the intro, and it looks like I've been spawned into an empty arena.

midnight inlet
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so if the castle is destroyed but hero dies right after it still counts as hero win

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and vise versa

sage maple
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Very odd.

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I can get into the Blue castle, which is presumably mine, and into the top tower.

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I can access the upgrades menu, but there's no Ascension option, and none of the monsters are spawning, so even if I had a weapon I couldn't get any resources.

midnight inlet
sage maple
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The menus aren't fully loaded in either, I still have the normal top bar, with no resource counters.

real eagle
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song of glory 3 gonna prob be pretty strong xd

bronze sandal
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i'll fix that

sage maple
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This is an interesting experience. Also, one I'll need to teleport out of, although thankfully there are non-death options.

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I can send more screenshots if wanted.

bronze sandal
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i think /kill would take you out?

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nah no need

midnight inlet
bronze sandal
sage maple
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Pressure plates work.

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I wonder what would happen if I stuck around here until a game started.

bronze sandal
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you probably still wouldnt be able to do anything

midnight inlet
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you are basically a spectator that can walk at this point

sage maple
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That would be interesting though.

bronze sandal
sage maple
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Yeah, in Hero Phase it seems straight-up useless.

midnight inlet
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in hero phase it is useless

sage maple
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There's only one player to kill, and game ends on their death.

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Maybe the effect could be changed in Hero?

midnight inlet
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but tbf who was going for song of glory 3

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i dont think anyone ever told me they were going for it

sage maple
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Okay, something odd.

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I can't change class while in this glitched arena.

midnight inlet
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probably because it thinks youre in game

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just leave the server and it should kick you out of it next time you rejoin

sage maple
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Can't TP, can't /pfinder, it must think I'm playing.

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Nope, it didn't kick me.

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I'll have to try /kill.

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That works, at least.

bronze sandal
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will be fixed next time we push 👍

sage maple
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Smacked out of my inventory when I left-clicked with it after joining a party.

real eagle
bronze sandal
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indeed

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we'll see if the positives make it worth grabbing in phase 1

lusty fractal
bronze sandal
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it is favoring the heroes, which is needed because heroes are too weak atm

lusty fractal
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Wouldn't bring that 2023 incident back

bronze sandal
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if it does, we'll adjust accordingly

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the big change this year is that players can very easily get to the hero in phase 2

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which inherently affects balance in a big way

bronze sandal
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even if you lose as players, you still get a decent amount of rewards

dry shard
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what even is the 2023 incident

bronze sandal
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heros always winning maybe?

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idk

lusty fractal
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Yes

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One person getting 15 when other 4 at best

dry shard
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later on in the event as people got progressively better it was pretty even, and id say that players were stronger overall with competent players

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rewards are just something else entirely

bronze sandal
bronze sandal
dry shard
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glory 3 is a bit scary since if a gray mob or whatever is chilling near castles then you could just pretty easily regain hp mid fight or dip out and come back

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honestly i forget what glory even is is it the path with only 3 upgrades

midnight inlet
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current 3rd glory is regen 1 heart every20s

dry shard
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ah that

bronze sandal
dry shard
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oh wait im stupid as fuck yeah

bronze sandal
dry shard
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i didnt really read it

midnight inlet
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when are these changed getting public btw?

bronze sandal
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i'm not sure yet, hoping to get them pushed today or tomorrow

dry shard
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hmmm honestly not that useful imo since glory is a path you normally wouldnt really go down to begin with and it's only helpful in phase 1 where it's incredibly expensive

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it's better than the previous iteration though i guess

midnight inlet
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i mean... is it really that expensive

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i just found it not worth it

bronze sandal
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to get the final level, you need 20 gray, 3 aqua + red, 2 yellow, 1 cyan

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total

sage maple
midnight inlet
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i dont think so

dry shard
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that would be crazy lol

midnight inlet
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yeah imagine lari having 20 block reach

bronze sandal
dry shard
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glory 3 on hero 💪

midnight inlet
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on another topic, last year was so easy to play, he only competitive part was about ascending, if you're hero it was basically 95% chance of winning

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glad it isn't like this anymore

dry shard
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decreasing tisaun and lari special cooldowns by so much is kind of scary

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lari in particular seems pretty cracked with 5s cooldown

midnight inlet
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if you are smart you wont go in it

dry shard
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i mean you can still spawn it directly on top of people and it cuts off a lot of walking space

bronze sandal
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if it ends up being too much, i'll raise it again

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for me, tisaun's special just doesn't feel super impactful given how long the cooldown on it is

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it's 15s after it runs out

dry shard
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yeah tisaun's is fair probably

bronze sandal
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lari's may be too much, true

bronze sandal
sage maple
# bronze sandal they don't

Oh, wait, nevermind. I got confuzzled and thought the benefit to heroes was the Song of Glory, not, y'know, all of the hero buffs.

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I've played several rounds, in none of them has the hero won so far. Which is sad.

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What's the ideal hero win rate? 50%? 25%?

dry shard
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win rates are bad to balance off of

midnight inlet
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and on how good your opponents are

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i cant say how good im doing this year

dry shard
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last year i won 139 out of 157 hero games

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currently i am 36 of 45 this year

midnight inlet
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whats your hero wl rn

dry shard
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thats what i just posted

midnight inlet
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i mean number

dry shard
midnight inlet
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so 4

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not that bad

dry shard
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we should get claim to villainy on april first

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playable villains include bakal, amadel, the parasite

bronze sandal
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banish the beyond:

dry shard
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can’t wait to play as the parasite in banish the beyond this october

bronze sandal
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so true

dry shard
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i forgot to ask does this just only pierce enemies within 2 blocks or does to extend to the slash too

image.png
mental flax
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could I have a wall or 3

image.png
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not related to the actual minigame but...

bronze sandal
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the slash itself doesnt pierce

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....wait the sweep is bugged. shoot

dry shard
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ok please fix being able to walk outside spawn after ascension and not getting a weapon

bronze sandal
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if you walk back into your castle youll get it again

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im not sure whats causing it so its hard to fix

dry shard
#

invisible wall

bronze sandal
#

??

#

ok weird

bronze sandal
dry shard
#

you can walk out in that delay and then it spawns and doesnt let you back in

bronze sandal
#

oh

#

it should disappear after a certain time though

#

i get what you mean now though

dry shard
#

im pretty sure at least

bronze sandal
#

it should

#

all it checks is that you are the hero

dry shard
#

well im not gonna test it lol

#

not intentionally at least

bronze sandal
#

changes are on new worlds

bronze sandal
#

nvm game is broken on new worlds actually

dry shard
#

rest in peace

dry shard
bronze sandal
#

hoping soon but there arent any devs online rn

dry shard
#

alright

#

i was gonna sleep anyways was just wondering

midnight inlet
#

ok yeah the gray mobs spawn only around the party leader

#

very interesting bug

bronze sandal
#

yep

#

if non-leaders relog things will work for them

midnight inlet
#

oh ok good to know

#

because of this bug i got max gray in 1:30m 💀

shy ledge
#

talespun essance mob going invisible when im near it?

midnight inlet
#

wait was this added with the recent patch too? and raia plushie lore aswell, this is sick

image.png
dry shard
#

they were

midnight inlet
#

the game is still bugged i presume?

bronze sandal
#

i think the fix got pushed

dry shard
#

oh boy is it fixed now

bronze sandal
#

should be

sage maple
#

Glitch.

#

Was playing normally, casting Meteors, and now my weapons do not work.

#

Might be a connection issue, actually.

#

But I was getting 'Dodged' messages from the monsters.

#

No, this is definitely a bug, it's happened again.

#

Meteors apparently break the ability to use a weapon.

#

Probably the new cooldown. Why is that? Is that to let you spam specials in a row?

midnight inlet
#

forgot to report^

#

people in my parties were complaining about not being able to use weapons

bronze sandal
#

yea im aware

#

it happens if you shift+click while your special is on cooldown already

sage maple
#

Weird.

#

Is it specifically tied to Meteor?

bronze sandal
#

yes

sage maple
#

Why was Meteor's cooldown altered while the others were fine?

bronze sandal
#

meteor left you defenseless for those 2.5 seconds

#

the other specials are an instant effect

sage maple
#

Ah.

bronze sandal
#

besides vanish, which also doesnt affect the main attack cooldown

sage maple
#

I mean, given how Meteor's pretty powerful, I'd say the original method was fair.

bronze sandal
#

if it ends up being a problem, i'll revert it

#

i made the change based on some feedback i received earlier

dry shard
bronze sandal
#

does vanish put your attack on cooldown?

dry shard
#

actually im not sure it might or may not

bronze sandal
#

it doesnt

sage maple
#

I liked old Meteor.

#

Best for monsters. Pretty fun. The new one's inconsistent with the rest of the specials.

dry shard
#

i genuinely only use spear nowadays but was gonna test out wand but i guess it's broken right now lol

sage maple
#

Suggestions for making it harder to dodge: bigger area and/or faster fall?

bronze sandal
#

it works ok, you just need to be careful not to shift+click again before the cooldown ends

dry shard
#

pretty sure given how long the cooldown is for meteor nearly every other weapon was better for boss killing

bronze sandal
#

it was same cd as volley

#

same damage too

dry shard
#

bursts let you steal kills but thats about it

dry shard
bronze sandal
bronze sandal
dry shard
#

it could do with some faster falling ngl

bronze sandal
#

all the special weapons have a 1.5s main attack cooldown

#

and the specials are 2.5s

dry shard
#

womp

bronze sandal
dry shard
#

dont see a problem with it being inconsistent with other weapons if it really needed it

#

even if it wasnt bugged right now im not sure id use it

sage maple
dry shard
#

at least now it has the niche of being able to lock out a small area from the hero with meteor and still being able to attack

bronze sandal
sage maple
#

Yeah.

bronze sandal
#

it just has a slightly longer cooldown, + lets you use main attacks while its falling

sage maple
#

It's just a bit more annoying.

dry shard
#

how

sage maple
#

I think: make it fall a bit faster, and make it not glitch.

bronze sandal
#

well obviously its gonna be fixed to not glitch

dry shard
#

well obviously the bug is not intentional

bronze sandal
#

i dont think that was in question

dry shard
#

i think making it fall slightly faster would be fine

bronze sandal
#

it lands 1.5s after being cast

dry shard
#

also small thing but tisaun/lari descriptions on the board and when youre about to ascend still say 45 hp

bronze sandal
#

ah, shoot

#

well thats a minor issue, ill get that fixed eventually

#

how does hero balance feel with the new patch

dry shard
#

i mean definitely feels stronger right now but ive only played like 4 games with changes and against some not great parties so i still need to play it a bit more to really tell

#

not being sniped across the map by bows is nice

sage maple
#

This is a change too major to implement, but - if I'd been making the bow, I'd replace its special with the opposite, that being a long-ranged snipe like what the Sharpshooter gets. (This is because I adore the Sharpshooter snipe.)

topaz folio
#

apparently going for kills is meta

image.png
real eagle
topaz folio
#

it's the claim to violence not heroism

dry shard
#

i get around 13 memories whenever I win on hero which takes around 10 minutes or slightly less

#

so it seems balanced to me idk

midnight inlet
#

i mean i know someone who is just farming kills and weapons instead of going for ascension and they always get more talespun than hero

#

kill points go crazy

#

they get like 16 average per game

dry shard
#

if whoever is slow to ascend takes a while then yeah I imagine you can rack up a lot of points in phase 1

midnight inlet
#

was insane spawnrate of grays intentional whenever a party member leaves?

#

or is it just because one less person = more for everyone else

#

it feels insane how fast you can get 60 gray mats when just one person leaves the lobby

dry shard
#

i haven’t seen or heard of this yet but if it’s noticeably way more than normal then probably not

midnight inlet
#

have you never had a party member leaving midgame?

dry shard
#

of course i have

#

havent seen this before but i also havent played a whole lot of games since the recent changes and it was buggy at the start so maybe it was that

bronze sandal
lusty fractal
sage maple
#

Glitch.

#

It's saying I have no Ruptured Time when I clearly have Ruptured Time. Never killed the mob, only got it from castles.

dry shard
#

hmmm so i was under the impression that meteor and wand main attack cooldowns were completely independant so you could cast meteor and then like immediately main attack but i guess not

bronze sandal
#

it puts your main on cooldown for 1s

dry shard
#

but at least meteor only stops main attack cooldown very briefly now so it's not that bad anymore

#

not too sure how to feel about it, it's certainly better

#

i think it could probably use some more range to be on par with spear because it's probably the worst weapon for actual player combat

#

and then i think itd probably be a very viable choice

#

hero changes feel good i feel pretty strong now

#

i think a full team of 5 proactive players still technically have the advantage but i havent had any of those games yet and i think balancing around that would be bad and would make it impossible for lesser experienced players to win at all

#

so i think heros are in a pretty perfect spot right now

bronze sandal
#

good to hear

mental flax
#

Came back from a few games
There was some upset discussion that the bow was nerfed too much and heroes were made too strong
I haven't used the new bow yet, but there was slight discussion that increasing the cooldown on it made it more cumbersome

dry shard
#

bow is still strong people are literally coping

bronze sandal
#

is the dagger cumbersome to use?

mental flax
#

I used it once. I would say so.
But for probably reasons besides the attack speed.
Not my specialty though, so I won't speak on it

dry shard
#

dagger is good

sage maple
#

In a game I'm playing, 3 of the members left at the start. And now, nothing is respawning (no enemies whatsoever), and the timer is frozen at 14:28.

Prompted by this - I think the Hero's stats should get decremented if there are 4 or less players, to maintain balance.

#

The game wasn't so busted that you couldn't /wcl out of it, though. It wasn't softlocked.

sage maple
#

Twice, I've gotten this harmless glitch. I'm handed two of Siegfried's swords, although clicking one in the inventory makes it vanish.

Screen_Shot_2024-03-28_at_6.13.35_PM.png Screen_Shot_2024-03-29_at_10.04.21_AM.png
dry shard
#

i get that a lot

bronze sandal
#

its cause of a change i made

dry shard
#

it doesnt really do anything so

dry shard
#

honestly i wonder if bonfire would benefit from the same health system that heroism has

#

bonfire always felt like the prototype for claim to heroism

#

would probably also need to tweak the map if you did that though

sage maple
#

ghost ping

dry shard
#

bump!!!!

bronze sandal
#

it's unlikely we're gonna make more balance changes at this point btw

dry shard
#

womp

#

wouldve liked to see what that 4th hero you had ideas for was

lusty fractal
#

hmm does anyone know what's the average now hero winning vs all other ppl?

lusty fractal
#

at least I appreciate resources for players per tower destroyed

dry shard
#

so sad I will have no reason to play wynn for like 4 months

#

notes for next year:

  • tisaun is for sure the strongest hero after getting quite a few buffs, good attack speed from special and passive, easy to hit shots, great special. not sure he needs to be nerfed heavily and would rather see other heroes get a bit stronger to match his level, would probably just increase the cooldown on his special by 1-2 seconds
  • lari is good but definitely worse than tisaun, I think a good way to bring her to his level is by adding back her insta-recharge
  • siegfried is the weakest but still very usable, honestly not sure how to buff him, maybe make his base attack hit multiple players but that might actually be way too strong, what makes him the worst is being easily exploited by range
  • wand is the worst weapon, I would give it added range to match spear and possibly make meteor fall ever so slightly faster
  • dagger could probably use a slight cooldown reduction on vanish
bronze sandal
#

👍

mental flax
#

Mmm
Wand is not the worst, at least I don't think
Has second highest range, and (as I found out) wall piercing is actually very useful, and allows for very funny shenaniganery
I'd want to say the dagger is the worst, just because of the short range being exploitable, but who knows

dry shard
#

it doesn’t have the same range as spear I believe

#

its only really good for being the best boss farmer and for stealing boss kills

#

vanish still has its uses in comparison

mental flax
#

Spear has 8 blocks, wand has 10
At least the game says

lusty fractal
#

I feel like you can't get to figure out what is siegfried's gimmick without reading the minigame "manual" or getting him in game

lusty fractal
dry shard
#

they’re all hitscan lol

#

except for meteor

lusty fractal
#

Aren't bow and spear projectiles

dry shard
#

no

#

visually spear looks like it travels but it is very much hitscan

lusty fractal
#

Then ig only explanation is 300 ping

dry shard
#

that would indeed create a delay

lusty fractal
#

Eu moment :/

#

And hosting on microwave

sage maple
#

Siegfried's the weakest?

#

Heard he was better than Lari. I did get Sieg Fried last time I played him so I can see that, I guess.

#

I should try playing Lari, never been her.

#

I think Spear is currently strongest weapon, because it's got mobility.

#

Which is pretty valuable in such a time-crunch game.

#

Also, with Spear, you can basically ignore everything except the first level of Song of Swiftness or whatever it's called.

#

Those 1-2 Speed levels are normally very important. But Spear charge removes their need.

#

Could the charge be given a buff if you have Speed levels?

dry shard
#

honestly I’m not sure who’s better between sieg and lari but generally they’re probably somewhat close

#

it’s hard for me to judge because I haven’t really been in many parties that actually get me low in hero in a while

#

spear is the strongest because it has the second most range, wide hitbox and mobility

#

it could probably use a nerf but id rather see other weapons buffed

#

bow is fine and very viable, dagger could use a slight cooldown reduction to vanish and wand will always be weird

dry shard
bronze sandal
#

i dont really like how important charge mobility is

dry shard
#

i think generally it’s fine

#

overall spear just has no weaknesses

#

charge is amazing but both wand and bow have better boss killing which also saves time and dagger has vanish which also gives a speed bonus but it’s on a much longer cooldown

sage maple
#

I think all the weapons should be buffed.

dry shard
#

dagger could probably be an alternative to spear if vanish got a cooldown reduction

sage maple
#

Wand should be given faster fall time on Meteor, the Bow should maybe have its old range back or a sniping ability, and the Dagger could have a longer Vanish and/or shorter cooldown, along with possibly a speed buff.

dry shard
#

bow range is already good, buffing it further will just result in old bow meta that is impossible to play against on hero

sage maple
#

Okay, fine.

#

I think a snipe would work.

dry shard
#

however I always liked the idea of adding a relik weapon and its main attack could be a spread very similar to bow volley but low range and in turn bow’s special could be changed to a charge up sort of like twain’s arc

sage maple
#

Instead of the bow's broad Volley, give it Twain's Arc, yeah.

dry shard
#

the charge up could do 2 damage to players but should have a long cooldown and be precise to use

sage maple
#

I like that idea.

dry shard
#

i like the idea of giving an uproot to a theoretical relik for its special that drags players towards you

sage maple
#

I think a Relik would be good to add next year. Give it the wide spread for its main attack, and then allow it to either place a Totem or convert a Boss temporarily as its special.

dry shard
#

what would a totem do

sage maple
#

A Totem would have an AoE damage cloud (small range?) where, if you stand in it, it deals damage to you.

#

You have, say, 1-3 seconds of immunity after being hit by the Totem.

#

Or 1 second if you are a boss.

dry shard
#

this just sounds like meteor but better

sage maple
#

Smaller range than Meteor?

#

Massive cooldown, maybe?

dry shard
#

would be useless in that case

sage maple
#

You have to stand in the cloud for a full second to get hurt?

#

For the Boss conversion concept, you can change a boss to fight for you temporarily. If it kills someone, you get to steal what they had. It might attack faster as well.

dry shard
#

sounds too gimmicky

sage maple
#

Your Uproot concept could also work, although I imagine you'd need to give it a cooldown like Meteor's.

#

It has a personal cooldown of 4-5 seconds, but the weapon cooldown is only 1 or 2, so you can attack after the Uproot, but not Uproot again for a bit.

#

Also, the Uproot shouldn't deal damage. It could have a 16 or 32 block range, but no damage. And it can't clear the whole range with its pull.

dry shard
#

id make it do some damage to bosses only probably

sage maple
#

The Uproot would be useless against bosses.

#

If the Uproot ends up being strong, then it could remain useless. Possibly, it could be given the power to phase through bosses while being shot.
If the Uproot needs a buff, it could be given, say, 3 damage against bosses.

bronze sandal
#

im vaguely considering lowering extra weapon costs

#

but maybe capping it at 2 or 3 extra weapons instead of letting you theoretically buy them all

#

cause,, that doesnt really ever happen anyway

sage maple
#

I rarely bother buying a second weapon after the spear, it's just not very worth it to me.

#

Third weapon? Really not worth bothering.

#

So if you add a Relik, then I would suggest putting a cap at 3 weapons, but lowering the costs of getting a second or third.

bronze sandal
#

yeah

#

thats my thinking definitely

dry shard
#

it’s good to buy some utility weapons for hero phase but buying any extra weapons in phase 1 is usually pretty expensive

sage maple
#

If I'm not the Hero (that's around 1/3 of the time, I think), Hero Phase is the only time I bother with second weapons, generally.

#

And that second weapon is Catharsis, because depending on the hero, it can do significant damage.

#

I have a concept for buffing Siegfried.

#

Replace the alt-attack. Instead of the current AoE damage-and-slowdown, it has the same range as the main attack, but it doesn't move you.

dry shard
#

it doesn’t move you anymore

#

catharsis is a noob trap please do not use it in hero phase

#

im pretty sure that’s the name of the wand anyways

sage maple
dry shard
#

no his special

sage maple
#

Did the alt-attack ever move you?

dry shard
#

yes

sage maple
#

I guess it did.

dry shard
#

im not sure what you’re even suggesting here

#

just increasing special range?

sage maple
#

I don't remember that all too well. In any case, I'm not suggesting making Starpower Strike not move you. I'm suggesting replacing Starpower Strike with Siegfried's main attack, but in a way where the attack does not move you. So the four slashes project forward but you don't follow them. They could maybe have additional buffs (longer range?) to add on, if it ends up being too weak for an alt.

dry shard
#

so you want his main attack to be replaced then

#

like his special is literally just a ring of damage around him I don’t see what you’re trying to mean by “his main attack but no movement” because that’s already what it is but with less range

sage maple
#

Okay, so increase Starpower Strike's range.

dry shard
#

sure

sage maple
#

Relik concept:

  • The Totem has 5 health. It deals damage in Meteor radius but can be damaged and destroyed.
  • Vanished people don't take damage in the field of Totem effect.
dry shard
#

totem with hp is a cool idea

dry shard
#

so sad i wanted to do some last games before festival ended and server explodes

sage maple
#

It's been roughly an hour for me.

#

And nothing. I've only been halfway through the queue.

#

Thankfully, there's still 3-4 hours left on the fest, so I should be able to get through, buy a bunch of trinkets, and get one last guild objective in.

dry shard
#

rest in peace

#

thank you for making the festivals great lex

dry shard
#

never felt like it from the very few times i used it or whenever i played against wand users

#

wand is probably fine then in retrospect, being the best boss killer is definitely pretty big

#

could honestly probably like halve dagger vanish cooldown and then i think weapons would be balanced

frozen sage
#

still don't have ring 10 coz the first 2 fragmented jewels i got broke on me pumpk

#

nothing appears in chat when i right click them and they are untradeable for some reason

dry shard
#

unlucky

bronze sandal
#

and they should turn into normal ones

frozen sage
#

oh that did work, nice :D