#constructive feedback on recent item changes

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

pastel mason
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oh god you're one of those people

fiery eagle
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'people'

timber blade
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how is requiring tanking and healing a good idea ??? emphasizing dodging attacks, and reaction speed instead of braindead R - L - R actually adds some spice to the game, not to mention how requiring heal just makes mage/shaman leagues better than other classes

also punishes solo content and kills dps output which the game is balanced around rn
1.20 -> 2.0 increased hp of everything around that

so many people hated 1.20 mage because of braindead asf R-L-R to nullify any skill issue

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Walking through any and all attacks, r-l-r to nullify all punishment and then just fighting back to negate hp lost is stupid

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Not to mention requiring tanking and healing would mean making a lot of attacks guaranteed to hit which kills a lot of the fun

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Unless you mean downscaling dps sizably and upscaling ehp, in which case it's literally just 1.20 (???)

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Even now mage (lightbender and riftwalker) nullifies all mistakes made by player, but it's not as bad because mage does not deal as good dps as other classes

fiery eagle
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hence the polarization of mega glass and mega tank for tna and tcc

timber blade
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Tna is still imo better design

fiery eagle
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nol is bettter design

pastel mason
timber blade
timber blade
pastel mason
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It's ridiculous that you think it's fine that an entire gameplay style is shit because it's not your preferred gameplay style

timber blade
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That was not my entire argument, if you read it all the way through you'd know

pastel mason
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I already said you can keep the things in the game that rewards your gameplay while we add or buff things that rewards mine and you still said no to that 😄

turbid flower
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ok but guild wars are the only MMO content in the game

timber blade
fiery eagle
pastel mason
fiery eagle
turbid flower
pastel mason
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jump height user spotted!!!!

timber blade
turbid flower
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but yes the only times i act as a healer in raids is when my team is like giga ass

pastel mason
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rage users when you heal them:

wanton stratus
turbid flower
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they always do

and if they don't, great! raid done for me

fiery eagle
turbid flower
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name a better combo than rage users and typing "wtf" after getting 1 tapped by greg

wanton stratus
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fella you done 20

pastel mason
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my TNA rank is in the 7000s or something

turbid flower
pastel mason
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shaman main 😭

wanton stratus
turbid flower
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rage user?

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dw i have a no heal rotation

wanton stratus
pastel mason
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oh nvm how did this get so high?

image.png
turbid flower
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no i just wouldnt assume anyone but a rage user to get upset at that

wanton stratus
turbid flower
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my bad i'll go queue more

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one day a rage user will complete greg without dying for me 🙏

pastel mason
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let's do a TNA raid

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lament + abso gaming. add in a guardian for spice

turbid flower
wanton stratus
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guardian dont have taunt / provoke will be fine for me

small citrus
# wanton stratus 🤨

he has 20 completions but has the sage wisdom of some one with 20k please put some respect on his name and shut up when the king speaks.

turbid flower
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TRUE

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a single lament clear is worth a thousand cata clears, watch the tone 😤

small citrus
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poor0ns like him wouldn’t get it, sorry king

proud meteor
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good change, hate HQ snipes

lost gulch
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Doesn’t this make guild wars even more stale than they already are?

wanton stratus
sage dew
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No heal cap ❌

eternal hornet
icy sky
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💀

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less than 9 mins

eternal hornet
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I do not want to offend anyone in ct but please can we get people involved that play the game {wars, raids} when it comes to buffing/nerfing items.

Hard wars went from 2 minutes in 1.20 to 30 seconds in 2.0 having a kill it before it kills you mentality. Most players in the guild war community agree that its a big issue how wars are that short that you don't even have to dode auras in most wars which requires skill.

I am not a great raider but the last times I've played tna people were doing the boss 1 - 2 phase which is really fast compared to 4? phases at the start of 2.0

we don't need lower heals. we need changes to Damage or ehp of bosses. Noone plays healer in TNA. And honestly if dps increases more in wars we can just replace the healer.

icy sky
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3 dps 2 tank 2nd chance martyr 😤

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Just realised @calm wraith does not have a leveled shaman class on his main 🤣

eternal hornet
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we ignore the 0 wars 0 tna runs

timber blade
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i agree with your points but idk what you think laughing at a ct manager will achieve other than the absolute opposite of what you want

pastel mason
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if a person in a professional position in a company bases their actions on their personal feelings and ego then idk

icy sky
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When cmt ct? He would be good at it

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Like actually

terse marten
gloomy flare
lost gulch
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I’m not gonna lie not even doing the bare minimum when it comes to trying out the changes you implemented previously is NOT a good look

icy sky
lost gulch
tired coral
turbid flower
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what a sweat

terse marten
tired coral
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hi brentinn

eternal hornet
tired coral
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I didnt say it does; i just found it funny you pulled up main server api right after they said they were on test server which isnt on the api

eternal hornet
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💀 my point is that they and probably most of ct don’t play the main game and don’t know high end content in the main game but still decide about buffs and nerfs

pastel mason
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yeah lol case in point: they had no idea shaman heal was uncapped

eternal hornet
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If any of ct wants to do guild wars than they have to join major guilds…

tired coral
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they kinda dont balance around wars 90% of the time because it's ignorable content to the masses

pastel mason
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i found it funnier that they tried to argue "oh but we do play in the test server!!!" then immediately proved how ineffectual that was when they didn't even know shaman heal was uncapped

tired coral
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while im ususally ct hater to be fair it wouldnt be so easy to notice

pastel mason
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they are literally putting together an update to healing efficiency

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to say that they didn't notice how healing actually works while doing that is just clownery

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If this update was about, idk, rainbow damage or something, then them not noticing healing would have been excusable

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But this is literally a healing update

lost gulch
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The main issue is that they aren’t testing anything in production, or pulling any meaningful anecdotal experiences from it IMO

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Which results in stuff that is seemingly tone deaf like capping shaman healing

tired coral
tired coral
pastel mason
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dude said the team didn't test on the actual server and this is actually proven

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actually, sorry. selvut did test. for 9 minutes

tired coral
terse marten
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bring back hero beta server on god

tired coral
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like the changes they are testing are ON the test server

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why would they be ON main

pastel mason
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things can happen in the live server that don't happen in the test server

tired coral
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what

pastel mason
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Also, things can just happen if you aren't focused on just one aspect

tired coral
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and if they do we wouldnt know so its kinda completely irrelevant

pastel mason
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For instance, the healing cap thing. The team probably didn't notice it because it wasn't something they thought to actually test

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But players, on the live server, obviously did

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There's also the infamous Hotfix 6 incident that made str/dex funny powerful

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Basically, if you are testing things on a relatively sterile environment (the test server) then the results you would get would be pretty limited

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Because you aren't incentivized to take into account random interactions with other mechanics

gloomy flare
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tbf hero beta servers do cost money to keep up and at the end of the day if like 5 people are using them its a bit of a waste ig?

tired coral
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which the ct didnt actually play a role in; if you're just sat questioning test methodology its all just one big IF, IF they do it wrong, IF they look at it like this; no use in yapping

pastel mason
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it's not an if

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There is actual proof that CT and IT are not knowledgeable in certain mechanics

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we have been discussing that proof literally this whole time

tired coral
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But is that to their detriment if the play testing makes it seem ok; must they know X part of the calculation does X

pastel mason
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Of course they have to know

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They are the ones making the changes

tired coral
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So even if it plays absolutely fine with the changes

pastel mason
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The Content and Item Teams absolutely have to be knowledgeable in the game's mechanics because they are the ones in charge of making changes to those mechanics. Anything less would be just them doing things blind, and that is detrimental to the game as a whole.

tired coral
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Okay but if the changes are balanced fine; what good does knowing the full intricacies of the healing to allies calculation

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Even with all these people here with the "vastly superior" guild healers haven't mentioned once that the mage ally healing cap can be exceeded

pastel mason
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To give a concrete example, there is a pretty huge difference between the current (uncapped) healing of Acolyte Absolution to the supposed (capped) healing it should have.

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erm well, the fact that players know about uncapped healing while ct/it apparently didn't does, in fact, make player knowledge vastly superior to ct/it

tired coral
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haven't mentioned

pastel mason
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yep

tired coral
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as in

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the players havent mentioned

pastel mason
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I think there was a discussion regarding mage healing? It's a number of hours (maybe even a day) ago

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It's what brought up the shaman uncapped healing in the first place

tired coral
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yeah i read it

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it didnt mention the ability to exceed mage cap; the part that i mentioned

pastel mason
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That's tragically yet another thing that CT/IT don't know about

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I want CT/IT to know things so they can be better informed when making changes. The fact that they aren't is what frustrates me, and the fact that they aren't while being completely smug about it is what infuriates me.

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Stop making excuses. You are in the position to be better. So be better.

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(i'm not talking to you you btw, I'm talking to CT/It in general)

tired coral
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I mean 80% of the shit in this thread has been either misinformed or unconstructive drowning out any reason for them to bother reading

icy sky
pastel mason
tired coral
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I mean its been awhile since they did Item changes I think people forgot upcoming changes listed before the patch are there for a reason such as this just without the explosion

pastel mason
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Something needs to change with how CT/IT work. I don't have any suggestions yet, but it's clear that the current setup is just not working.

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The people on the team have a lot of power regarding the direction and meta in the game but are woefully lacking in knowledge in the actual game.

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This results in things like the current debacle which just further damages their reputation.

tepid ravine
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it's not CT, people should stop generalizing to CT, CT does not deal with items or atree (largely)

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it's purely IM team, more or less
atree is kind of a special case but it's close enough it doesn't matter

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only thing related is that GMs deal with mob stats, like mob hp/damage/spells whatnot

tepid ravine
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I dunno if I'd say selv was being smug, but even if he was it's still not fair to draw conclusions about everyone based on what he's saying

pastel mason
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Selvut is a member of the team and therefore represents it. It's not like being part of the team was an inescapable fate.

tepid ravine
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he represents it yes, but that doesn't mean we are all his clones

pastel mason
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If the team comes in and explicitly states that they do not share Selvut's views then it's a different matter. But nothing of the sort has happened yet.

tepid ravine
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hi!

pastel mason
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Hello

tepid ravine
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also, I don't completely disagree with selvut but lemme type smth up

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you were again generalizing based on selvut's personal knowledge to everyone else; I did personally know that shaman healing was uncapped, but didn't realize this was an issue, as I was not around for the original changes where it was planned (apparently?) on being limited

tired coral
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your lack of a ct tag might have confused him, btd is an im !!!!!

tepid ravine
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oh right yea

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too lazy to link acct 💤

tepid ravine
white urchin
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my main problem is just trusting salteds judgement for everything with no reason 🥴

cloud field
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@tired coral can the zipper mouth be removed 🙏

tired coral
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if u say something swag

tepid ravine
cloud field
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Does this pass the bar calalala

white urchin
tepid ravine
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africanwarrer:

white urchin
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birb is good but he is inactive

cloud field
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Both too new for me to know anything yet

white urchin
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birb number 1 fuy member

tepid ravine
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real

tired coral
cloud field
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Yippie

sage dew
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@cloud field

cloud field
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@sage dew

calm wraith
# eternal hornet

you literally responded to a message debunking why that's relevant my guy, come on

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and I'll give you that on testing servers, unless we're doing group testing there's often not many people there. so of course I wouldn't realize shaman heal wasn't capped, cause that only affects your allies, and I was told in development that all heals would be capped like Mage's. it was an oversight

eternal hornet
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okay but how do you test on test server when you don't play on the normal server. do you have a test server with the current state?

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and how does wynn take into account how other players play the game when ct does not play with them

calm wraith
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the testing server is often actually more advanced than the base server cause we can actually. y'know. test our changes there

eternal hornet
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and how does ct get meta builds and knowledge how abilities/weapons are used by the playerbase?

calm wraith
# eternal hornet and how does ct get meta builds and knowledge how abilities/weapons are used by ...

we examine the playerbase and what they're using or looking for in builds. the discord is a pretty decent slice of the community and while it is far from everyone, most class builders are here, so it's trivial to just start looking things up and see what's common and what's ignored in here and other class building discords as well. life's been waylaying us but we used to be a lot more active making changes and the community would talk back to us quite a bit in that regard

eternal hornet
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I once again invite you, look ingame on actual raids/wars, even join a bigger guild and participate in them. doesn't have to be my guild, can be any bigger guild I'm sure a lot of pepole would also welcome you. I do think there is a really big difference between looking at raw data and actual gameplay

rocky kernel
calm wraith
eternal hornet
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when 2.0 beta came out we went and tried out war builds. these were good and helped us understanding some stuff but the progress we made on the main server was a whole different level

worthy kiln
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if u see the player killing tna in 5 seconds it might make a difference

calm wraith
eternal hornet
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I am more confused then before

smoky ruin
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i've heard a rumor ct test with 100% rolled items, selvut can you confirm or deny this?

eternal hornet
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we are talking about late game content performed by lategame players who use wynntils, wynnbuilder and all other tools they have...

worthy kiln
eternal hornet
cloud field
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I mean they need some kind of handicap for having total playtime 26 minutes

calm wraith
smoky ruin
calm wraith
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specifically because that's. pretty unlikely for most players

cloud field
worthy kiln
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it happens in pfinder

eternal hornet
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it happens in pfinder quite often

worthy kiln
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u only really need 2 players to do that type of damage

sullen cobalt
eternal hornet
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I'm not a raider the last times I played tna I pfinder 2-3 times to get decent people and played them

worthy kiln
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so the solution is just not to take pfinder into account then because it’s not real players

calm wraith
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little narrow-minded all things considered.

cloud field
eternal hornet
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its not even secret! I just searched tna wynncraft on yt

small citrus
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#1218367293344579614 just generally have two rulesets for wars and then rest of the game, problem solve

shadow mango
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Ya'll talking about testing on the test server vs or playing on the main server ect.
But how does one consider something to be "balanced" as that will differ from person to person?
Are you going in terms of "this is the max we want and this is what we want at minimum" or do you compare it to other commenly used builds? Because testing out all the possibilities in terms of builds and abilty trees does take a lot of time. and imo is nessesairy for balancing to make sure everything works how you guys think it should work. Like looking at the healing cap of shaman, how didn't you know of this before working on balancing healing? of course human error is a thing, but if you played a bit of the server and interacted with communities outside of the wynncord you would have seen people warring for example. even if you don't do that, there are enough video's on YT to see said things.

sorry for this small rant my brain made but i am just curios about how the testing goes. as it is essential for the server and content to be healthy and fun like

calm wraith
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Balance terminology is really up in the air due to the massive disparity in skill between newer players and 5000-TNA-run hyperexperts, but typically if content can be swept like that there's a problem. If people can be doing 22 million damage in 5 seconds, something's up. If there is One(1) way to do wars, there's a problem. If there's an overwhelming bias towards a specific kind of build, there's a problem.

robust delta
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Can you believe it guys
Actual immolation buff
150 def/agi instead of 130!
Though, I've still never wondered why it had -health...

calm wraith
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I'll also say that we're talking more about Immolation and about the power of Healing Efficiency, and for as many panic-induced threads as there were about shaman's heal getting capped or Fluid Healing or anything like that getting capped or uncapped, we still need to discuss such a thing and get it approved.

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Just cause it's something I plan to bring up doesn't mean it'll happen immediately, or hell- maybe the others don't agree and we don't touch anything in that regard. I'm not IM head. I'm part of a team.

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That means we decide things collectively.

small citrus
calm wraith
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I have brought up to the team the concept of putting a cap on Fluid Healing and Healing Efficiency and put it to a vote. As far as I'm aware these could take dev-time so even if they get approved it may not happen immediately. Equally I have brought up that Sacrificial Shrine(and technically Regeneration) don't have caps on them and asked whether or not we should change that as well as discussing the cap on Heal, but I haven't gotten much response and it has not been put to a vote. As well, if it passes among IMs we need to run it by Salted as a final step since they're ability-tree related, so he could veto those if he chooses to.

My mentioning that we should change it here does not mean it is guaranteed to happen, and it is not happening immediately even if the vote passes.

small citrus
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okay, genuinely thank you for the clarification because knowing that we can still convince yall not to kneecap shaman is good news

shadow mango
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imo soft cap > hard cap tho

red nacelle
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aaaa bug reporting in contructive feedback im sorry but the message here was relevant
I mentioned being told greed wasn't affected by healing efficiency to someone, and they told me they tested before and it was
They just went and tested it again in response and gave me this

image.png
patent moon
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he doesnt know 🙃

red nacelle
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oh you're here now lol

fathom cypress
patent moon
worthy kiln
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immo can use health pots

patent moon
fathom cypress
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OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo

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its joever
boreal immo build incoming

worthy kiln
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screw okr

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poopass item anyway

patent moon
fathom cypress
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my day is ruined

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oop i did 1 too many tiers

pastel mason
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The fact that the testing server is "more advanced" than the live server and it still took them this long to realize shaman heal was uncapped-

red nacelle
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they're not going to notice if they're not looking at it

sullen scroll
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bro just likes the sound of their own voice

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i have yet to see a response from them that isnt dumb

pastel mason
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The sterile environment limits the results you obtain

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And not only is Selvut fixated on the superiority of the testing server, they also only have 9 minutes over the last 2 weeks in the live server

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So the results they obtain are incredibly skewed

red nacelle
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testing mechanics on the live wouldnt yield any better results; what would change about, say, noticing sacrificial shrine healing isnt capped just by being on live? They're not going to test mechanics in actual raids with random online players

pastel mason
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There's way more people on the live server so there's more chances of noticing something funky

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To be fair, the same results could be obtained if the team just....listened to players or actually paid attention to what players were doing

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Like, surely they should have noticed sooner when Shaman was considered the superior healing class

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They added major IDs to assist Mage healing and yet Shaman continued to outperform, for instance

red nacelle
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stumbling into mechanics by chance on live would require a far greater time investment than I think they want to put into the game
I'm not fully sure how they didn't hear somewhere like here that mage isnt used because it was capped, but I wouldn't say it's that much of a stretch to say that they never looked for the answer because they figured it was abso having so much water damage %

wanton stratus
fiery eagle
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how are you still operating on the assumption that any balancing is done around wars after being told multiple times that they are not taken into account

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the patch literally just changed some water damage to healing efficiency, there is no grand plan to tranform war meta, or make tna utilize healing, or anything of the sort

wanton stratus
fiery eagle
sullen scroll
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not the item changes

fiery eagle
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that has no basis for convo, as it is based on the knowledge of 1 team member, which is in no way indicative, and no patch notes to go off of

wanton stratus
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im confused

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so far i know is that: Item healing changes -> compared water (fluid healing) and healing id -> mention fluid healing -> the entire ability node convo -> blame there should be more testing in the real server

sullen scroll
# wanton stratus so far i know is that: Item healing changes -> compared water (fluid healing) an...

the ability note conbo --> someone brought up that shaman's heal ddoesnt even have a cap --> selvut was like "wtf? that's a bug, im going to fix that" --> sparked a huge convo about how its the only thing holding together wars, that wars are fucked in terms of balance anyway, selvut doesnt even war so please dont ruin it for the rest of us --> they dont agree that just because they dont war doesnt mean they can't make decisions about wars (one of the reasons being they tested the new wars before they were released in 1.20)

the good news is selvut in the end accepted not to change it because major war rebalance changes should come first

pastel mason
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there is no other content in the game where healing is notably consequential

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hence, i am arguing for 2 things: either don't push through with these changes, or add content where healing is consequential

fiery eagle
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other content in question being specifically tna specifically bossfight itself

pastel mason
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lootruns are also up there

calm wraith
fiery eagle
calm wraith
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People just kind of assumed that my mentioning wanting to fix it meant that it was set in stone.

pastel mason
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i wonder why

image.png
sullen scroll
pastel mason
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There has been 1 member of the team who stated they wanted to change healing. There have been 0 members of the team who have said otherwise.

sullen scroll
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(or even just bringing it to the attention of salted, who could very well not care what this thread had to say and go ahead and make the change)

fiery eagle
sullen scroll
wanton stratus
sullen scroll
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on god 😭

pastel mason
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what does guaranteed watched mean? like, removing the trigger and just make it inherent to the boss fight?

fiery eagle
calm wraith
boreal granite
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probably activating at hp threshold

fiery eagle
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also it will hit all 4 ppl

boreal granite
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instead of like time ig?

pastel mason
wanton stratus
boreal granite
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is it even based on time? i cant tell for sure

fiery eagle
wanton stratus
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spawns eyes -> 4-5 seconds -> watched

boreal granite
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oh eyes

wanton stratus
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the small skull one

pastel mason
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yeah let's do that

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hp threshold and it hits everyone

boreal granite
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how about smth like
remove eyes spawning before watched and have watched beam spawn eyes on impact instead?

wanton stratus
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(we can kill greg duo in 0 watched)

boreal granite
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eye spawning and the 4-5s delay

wanton stratus
boreal granite
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do eyes spawn one by one?

wanton stratus
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as a bunch

fiery eagle
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eyes grow on trees im pretty sure

boreal granite
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ah ic

wanton stratus
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so the maxium time of killing it is like 8 seconds

worthy kiln
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im insanely surprised that redbeard has a better time surviving than tna

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because redbeard has a hitcount cap

wanton stratus
worthy kiln
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bolt immediately activating redbeard's invincibility attack

pastel mason
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idk why CT hasn't added damage gates like that to TNA

worthy kiln
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they really should

pastel mason
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like, we know they can do it. it is everywhere except the final boss of the game

wanton stratus
fiery eagle
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Dern leak????????

wanton stratus
worthy kiln
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if u think about it tna is just redbeard

fiery eagle
wanton stratus
worthy kiln
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they both have a charge attack

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they both have a phase where they go to the middle of the arena and throw shit

pastel mason
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i saw this one discord message somewhere comparing old redbeard model vs new redbeard model

worthy kiln
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they both die in 5 seconds

pastel mason
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my guy got thiccc

wanton stratus
pastel mason
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ok that was an unnecessary use of peach emoji

worthy kiln
calm wraith
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I'm so full from seawater yum

worthy kiln
small citrus
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i fully read what selvut said about “yet another thing we have to fix that surely we’ll be crucified for” as confirmation that it was more likely than not that shaman heal would be capped, which in turn felt reinforced by like, everything that was then said to defend said proposed cap

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if it’s not set in stone as was said, then i think it’s fine and ill do everything i can to push for keeping it uncapped or at least uncapped in wars

haughty horizon
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quick question but does water damage get "replaced" with heal eff, or is it like a whole other stat
basically if waterdmg was at like 50% on a king of hearts, when the update happens, will heal eff be at it's equivalent 50% or will it be random?

shy ferry
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Random

gloomy flare
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i can imagine tweaking numbers slightly and having to test constantly is far more boring than people just using something

red nacelle
gloomy flare
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yeah my point is that if they play the game they would have a better feel for how it currently works and can balanced easier based on that

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e.g. if i was CT and balancing an ability i use, i would know "yeah let's test it with x buff"

fervent cliff
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for absolution , water dmg will be replaced by healing efficiency with same identification ?

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or just adding the new one

red nacelle
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They cannot make the roll transfer over; it's just not a system the item team has

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Selvut said that they've asked several times to get it made but the team that would do that has refused

deep anchor
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you need to update it, new changes dropped

strong field
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cba

pastel mason
#

immolation buff lmao

calm wraith
#

but yeah. Immolation's gotten a buff, though we're still kinda side-eyeing it, Rhythm of the Seasons got touched, and also Skipjack is finally a ring again, unrelated to the healing efficiency stuff

strong field
#

why the skipjack ring thing

calm wraith
#

Cause it lets you wear two of em

strong field
#

weird reason

#

but sure

calm wraith
#

the whole purpose of Skipjack as conceived was to modulate your sprint, so wearing two of them(or having the option to) was pretty central to the point- then some people in the team objected to such big stats on a ring that they insisted it either be nerfed or turned into a bracelet, but they have finally been convinced otherwise

strong field
#

huh not like the sprint thing is actually overpowered

stray river
#

what exactly does the sprint stat do?

strong field
#

makes sprint bar longer i think

stray river
#

i would have assumed faster but ig not

calm wraith
#

yeah, sprint extends the bar

strong field
#

i dont know how i feel about this immolation change

stray river
calm wraith
#

you get about 37.5 seconds of sprint under normal circumstances, so +100% will increase that to about 75 seconds, and 200% will increase it to about 112.5 seconds.

#

it is worth noting however...sprint regen is a fixed rate and not a % of the sprint bar being filled. while it takes about 20 seconds to fill...it would take a shorter time, even with no sprint regen ID, if you had a smaller bar, and a longer time if you had a larger one

#

so even without the -sprint regen, those bars alone would take about 40 seconds and about 60 seconds to refill.

#

with it...we measured the rates, and mathing it out it takes about 75 seconds to recharge your sprint bar wearing one Skipjack

strong field
#

does anything stop me from taking it off and puttinmg it back on

calm wraith
#

Nope

strong field
#

trol

#

anyway immo changes are straight up 15% ehp buff

#

and slight aura cost decrease

deep anchor
calm wraith
#

it went from around a 4.18x boost to around a 4.88x boost to EHP. before 2.0 it was, iirc according to the math, an 18x boost. like I said, we're still sort of side-eyeing immolation

strong field
#

honestly what i would like to see done on immo is just health regen% buff, maybe im being selfish here by ruining the gimmick or something but i think it would be a lot nicer for me if i could cancel out negative hpr without other items

#

maybe like -150 to -80

robust delta
#

Thought the main gimmick was having no totem heals?

#

Or was it just no heals at all

strong field
#

shi i dont know but what i do know is cancelling over -100 hpr% is cancerous

#

and my ass is so not playing boreal

robust delta
#

Well, you don't have many options regarding it

strong field
#

exactly what makes it cancer

robust delta
#

Boreal or bust

strong field
#

nethers scar is a funny way to go about it

fiery eagle
strong field
#

crabs is also like half possible

#

you would need a great roll

#

aleph null is possible with god tier rolls

#

hetusol possible but sad usage

#

all of these are not great options tbh

calm wraith
#

Might I suggest life steal

robust delta
#

Shaman life steal...

strong field
# calm wraith Might I suggest life steal

life/ mana steal is a bit annoying on shaman which is an arguement but its mostly because i cba to use main attack also passive health loss ends up annoying anyway

robust delta
#

I guess it could work
Just
Not very convenient...

strong field
#

on the other hand

#

the old keeper does indeed have a ring which is probably going to end up the solution because when is it not

#

me when the old keeper has ring

robust delta
#

My face when I put max coins in the greed donation machine (I can now use a level 80 ring in Wynncraft)

strong field
#

so either you play greed immo or you just play health pot immo i am guessing

#

but that means me no skidbladnir sad

small citrus
calm wraith
strong field
#

WHAT

calm wraith
#

Wish we were told this when the ID was introduced, but what can you do.

strong field
#

IT IS A SAD DAY

small citrus
calm wraith
strong field
#

this will kill immolation lootrunning :/

small citrus
strong field
#

welp time to try to build rainbow immo without hpr realest rainbow build

#

or just tfa or some bullshit

#

its so over for this item

small citrus
#

hp potion 🥱

strong field
#

and i have to avoid using any items with hpr

small citrus
#

hp potion 🥱

strong field
#

and i cant use greed (no lootrunning potential)

small citrus
#

hp potion 🥱

strong field
#

and i have to build 80 defense (no tna potential)

small citrus
#

hp potion 🥱

calm wraith
#

like I said, we're still sort of side-eyeing immolation

strong field
#

womp womp hope it turns out better than toxo

#

ok maybe i am exaggarating

calm wraith
#

"maybe" huh

strong field
#

just like 300-400 pwease 🥺

pastel mason
#

health pot immo skull

#

yes i would love to recast totems every single time

#

i think str/dex should affect poison ticks

#

that would fix toxo fr

calm wraith
#

He felt it was a weirdly opaque mechanic

red nacelle
#

sucks for toxo though
I feel like no amount of poison added to that besides a game-breaking amount would ever be considered acceptable for the community (maybe just give it normal base damage?)

calm wraith
#

I personally would like it back, or some other kind of poison mechanic to make up for it, but I doubt strength increasing poison will come back directly

tepid ravine
#

poison% when

deep anchor
#

now we shall wait for heph spell cost revert so immo is so back

fervent cliff
#

and now ,maybe becoming useless

warm dew
#

whats even wrong with poison that it has to be so gatekept against being buffed owo

warm dew
# tepid ravine poison% when

new stat ... gives walk speed ... and then we play musical chairs with the stat table and put poison dmg in somewhere

worthy kiln
tepid ravine
#

real

#

+bps stat (blocks per second)

patent moon
#

(if you considered that for every id change there would be no id changes)

warm dew
#

just reset the reroll cost xD

fervent cliff
#

instead of using the worst one

small citrus
#

what can they do

patent moon
pastel mason
#

i got an abso from the rodo lootrun and i have never been sadder

fathom cypress
#

just dont ID it

calm wraith
small citrus
#

something new?

calm wraith
#

yeah I'd say this is new

newapoc.png
small citrus
small citrus
tired coral
#

upper cost apocapyp

#

nom nom nom
+Hellfire: yap yap yapp yap yap yap yap

rocky kernel
#

apocalypse getting some love 😮

tired coral
#

beefy base increase

#

scrap apoc 🥰

worthy kiln
tired coral
#

anyway ahaaa i love guardian change !!!!!!!

image.png
small citrus
tired coral
#

12mana

#

thats like 4 whole auras i probably died to without

small citrus
#

12 mana to make up for the loss on eotb

#

genuinely useful

tired coral
#

eotb mana isnt changing is it
just spell i thought

small citrus
tired coral
#

oh yeah so it is
fucked !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

small citrus
#

so guard buff is unironically just enough to make up for the loss

wanton stratus
tired coral
#

whgats wrong with 20mr -20% spell accesories :((((((((((((((((((

pastel mason
#

they are deleting apoc

calm wraith
pastel mason
#

ummm yes

worthy kiln
#

number up is good! possibly

#

we like number go up

#

number go down bad! likent

#

number go up good! like

small citrus
#

stonks

small citrus
calm wraith
#

the roll remains but the underlying number chsnges

small citrus
#

awesome

#

im guessing tahts why the abso ids couldnt change, double edged sword

calm wraith
#

if you had a perfect 130 ls roll on some hypothetical item and we reduced the base from 100 to 50, you would end up with a perfect 65 ls roll

small citrus
#

my beauty stays 🙏

image.png
calm wraith
#

yeah, since the previous ID disappears and a new one gets added, we can't just trace over the roll number like that

#

since some people continue to complain about that thing we have asked the devs for and been told no

small citrus
#

kinda blows, i lost quite a few good absos that way but cest la vie

shy ferry
#

my guess is with the +upper cost the hellfire MID will apply some sort of buff to the flaming uppercut node

#

how close am i?

strong field
#

good changes awesome

#

@tiny viper apoc solo buff 🔥🔥🔥

#

+hellfire sounds like fallen major id honestly really hope it isn’t

#

pray we get paladin mid

shy ferry
#

yeah the new lore also makes me think fallen

paper spade
#

+hellfire :
spells can now create explosions

#

nvm this is already in the game

red nacelle
#

Oooo apoc buff and guardian mana
Can't say I was expecting the guardian mana to become 9 instead of 6, but I'll take it
Hellfire major ID seems to have quite the long description, so I'm guessing it's not something simple, but if I had to place a guess anyways, I'd say it might be related to flaming uppercut or boiling blood perhaps? Those are like, the only two abilities warrior has that feel related to fire. It could also be related to the new item lore, because that is not what it was before

#

Kind of a shame I won't be able to try it out on my at-level NoL class because I'm keeping it locked to level 80 and apoc is level 81, but this doesn't apply to the vast majority of people

deep anchor
naive ingot
# calm wraith since some people continue to complain about that thing we have asked the devs f...

That's bullshit. If the mana regen and mana steal of the Guardian and Fatal are generally indifferent, this will have little effect on the strength of those mythics that already exist. But for Abso, this is literally the only main stat, which if rolled bad then it has no any value, and now you just remove it, and force us to roll it again? Why? For what? Btw, why would you need a Fluid Healing on shaman if Abso will doesn’t have a water damage%?

strong field
#

guys 100 iq idea, as a big f you to all idol players anamnesis should have water damage replaced by healing efficiency

#

would love to see it

white urchin
strong field
#

it’s not

#

we have melee explosion not spell

#

but that major id won’t happen anyway since it’s confirmed to be warrior only major id

red nacelle
#

Spells can trigger explosions though, so I think that's what they were referring to

strong field
wanton stratus
#

palamonk apoc when?

turbid flower
#

Another wand will get an MiD sure I'm soon

pastel mason
#

meanwhile, the reliks:

patent moon
#

PANIC PANIC PANIC

weak haven
deep vessel
#

fckin hate this game

weak haven
#

I have no Idea what Hellfire is, but I sure would think it would work well on Immolation or Absolution, right????

pastel mason
#

but that would improve shaman, which is a huge no-no

tired coral
weak haven
dense phoenix
dense phoenix
autumn knot
#

Just read that Guardian will get improved mana reg, will that change only apply to new items or will the old ones be changed as well?

small citrus
small citrus
lost gulch
#

Finally, I can play corrupted guardian in TNA on gobb

autumn knot
autumn knot
tired coral
calm wraith
#

Also someone guessed right about Hellfire.

#

Not gonna say who though. Or in which channel.

rocky kernel
#

me ofc

#

flamethrower go brr

weak haven
#

@calm wraith , will there ever be a major ID on one of shamans mythics?

red nacelle
#

between all of this, the guesses are:

  1. Works on immo or absolution - nope
  2. Chain explosions - possible if it's tied to a warrior ability
  3. Damage that hits you as well - same as above, but feels unlikely
  4. Interacts with Flaming Uppercut or Boiling Blood - maybe biased but still sounds decent to me (could also mix with another guess I suppose)
  5. Spells can trigger exploding (technically they already do, but I thnk they meant on hit instead of kill)
  6. Is for fallen - seems to broad to say "someone guessed right"
  7. Applies a buff to Flaming Uppercut - I guess mine but without mentioning Boiling Blood
  8. Works with exploding somehow
    Either the correct guess was something that didn't show up around the results that had the word Hellfire in them or it isn't too fancy (but then why would such a long message have to be covered?)
rocky kernel
red nacelle
#

honestly, with the length of the ID description, that seems the most probable so far

rocky kernel
#

imagine it depletes your health to spit fire or smth

red nacelle
#

quite the lengthy description for a major ID

image.png
#

also the first word of the second line must be pretty long, but that doesnt really do much for us

rocky kernel
#

inb4 the description is only 2 rows and they covered the entire thing to gaslight us

red nacelle
#

I don't think there's anything else that could push the "[0/3} Powder Slots" that far down

rocky kernel
#

fair

red nacelle
#

btw when stealing the uppercut text from the cost above, it looks a bit too short to reasonably be the first word, so either the first word is not the spell it correlates to or it is not related to uppercut

image.png
#

me reaching for any evidence I can get to narrow this down

calm wraith
red nacelle
#

ok through a lot more time in paint I kind of got the different spell names to match the size of the other text
War scream looks like it would fit decently well as the first line, but of course all this is silly guesswork

image.png
weak haven
calm wraith
#

Wow! You exist!

#

Shaman is difficult to make majors for

red nacelle
#

congratulations: toxo has gained plague ID because spreading it was definitely what it needed

small citrus
calm wraith
#

and we dont wanna just slap majors on without much thought

#

just cause we havent come up with anything yet doesnt mean we never will

weak haven
#

I twas at school

red nacelle
#

btw selvut I hope you got at least a chuckle from me overanalyzing the covered major ID description

#

I had fun doing that

small citrus
red nacelle
#

would be even funnier if it was tied to axe kick specifically

small citrus
#

thjey should really adjust sacred surge

calm wraith
small citrus
#

bring back apoc high soloing 💪

red nacelle
#

but uhh give base sacred surge help first

deep anchor
#

you didn't specify that you're not gonna say that soooo

#

you have to now ¯_(ツ)_/¯

calm wraith
small citrus
#

im racist, dogs arent allowed to play basketball.

small citrus
red nacelle
#

regardless of what it is, I look forward to the changes in general I just hope that apoc doesnt become a better spell weapon than guardian but that seems unlikely

small citrus
#

its the only archetype that can make good use of apoc's ls anyways

small citrus
red nacelle
#

actaully +14% at worst because 20% * 0.7

deep anchor
small citrus
deep anchor
#

but mainly melee?

small citrus
#

not sure, i mean im only interested in the buffs wrt new soloing potential

deep anchor
#

mhm

fathom cypress
tired coral
#

s9o true

fathom cypress
#

why is everyone obsessed with apoc and paladin

tired coral
#

apoc is so corrupted

fathom cypress
#

thats the 3rd time today ive seen someone mention it
paladin is shite what are you yapping

fathom cypress
#

inb4 hellfire is a paladin biased mID and someone replies to this in a week's time like "bts you were wrong" shuddup

as it stands paladin sucks and fallen doesnt like

also heavy hybrid apoc currently IS "viable" in the sense that spells do so much more dmg than melee its even comparable when looking at apoc
the buff might just help it a likkle bit like rip nitro rip :hmm:

calm wraith
deep anchor
#

cmon man

calm wraith
#

Hey, I said what I said

autumn knot
#

Just hope hellfire is better than Divine Honor, then again u would have to really make a effort to make a worse Major ID

calm wraith
#

remind me what divine honor is again, someone else made that n I cant remember its effect offhand

stray river
#

waiting for "everything we know about hellfire" forum post...

red nacelle
#

I forget the exact spell multiplier reduction

fiery eagle
deep anchor
#

like to the point you can consider it as negative major id

autumn knot
#

not like Paladin damage was bad already too

fathom cypress
#

legging slot is soo powerful and is wasted by anti-causality

autumn knot
sullen scroll
tired coral
#

A star

sullen scroll
#

actually it won’t rlly change anything

#

70 ovr

#

i’ll just be happy with the fact that it won’t be red mr bringing the “goodness” of it down

sullen scroll
#

i don’t remember

tired coral
#

Yeah

#

71-95 is 1

#

96-99 2 100 3

rocky kernel
sullen scroll
#

all the 1 ids in the game still have an internal roll

rocky kernel
#

🤯 das crazy

sullen scroll
#

it’s just that the base roll is 1 so 1.3 * 1 = 1
(….ok idk what happens to 0.3*1)

fervent cliff
calm wraith
#

Is Exploding an ID that only shows up on spears?

sullen scroll
pastel mason
#

are we expecting any more nerfs to shaman or can i unfollow this thread already

sullen scroll
#

you can unfollow

pastel mason
#

thank you king 👑

deep anchor
#

It makes your flaming uppercut scale with fire defense

deep anchor
#

Outside of mob/ingredient grind

#

I think for me it was when invigorating wave was bugged

pastel mason
#

i joined a TNA party as an acolyte an hour ago. for the memes

#

(it was bad)

deep anchor
#

You playing it doesn't count either

pastel mason
#

why not!!

#

but fr shaman is only used for wars and grinding

#

sure you can use it for raids and lootrunning but...why

#

there are literally 3 much better options

deep anchor
#

Warrior and mage

tired coral
#

Warrior and assassin

#

Assuming by raids we mean tna

#

Otherwise loud incorrect buzzer

dense phoenix
#

666 but based

stray river
#

well i think it means the new id has to do with explosion...

calm wraith
#

I said it pertains to warrior. Is Exploding an ID that only appears on spears?

robust delta
#

A warrior ability given functionality around exploding would be warrior-centric, yes?
Not that that's the case here, just that a MID based around exploding could be pertaining to warrior just as well

stray river
#

maybe... it is impacted by the explosion stat (more explode = more something)

lost gulch
#

guys i figured it out, Hellfire is a MID that is designed to burn out your PC by setting the entire map on fire and adding 300% more particles to the screen (and bypassing the cap)

sullen cobalt
#

how did you get it so correct…

stray river
#

what! it cant be correct! this was not a theory prior to selvut saying it had already been said!

white urchin
#

prob upgrades flaming uppercut to being good

robust delta
#

Do you not consider flaming uppercut to be good

red nacelle
#

flaming uppercut is actually pretty weird
fireworks and comet both re-apply it, resetting the duration and time until next damage tick, meaning that if you have them and uppercut regularly without giving it more than 0.6 seconds after the last damage tick hit, it does nothing

#

essentially this means that having uppercut as part of your spell cycle makes flaming uppercut do nothing

#

the re-application from fireworks and comet does count for sacred surge though, so thats cool at least

deep anchor
#

:DDDD

red nacelle
#

the highest dps paladin ability finally gets an upgrade

calm wraith
#

Well, I can confirm the changes are coming with the heroes patch. So you'll find out on Friday.

red nacelle
#

yay!

#

any more upcoming to keep an eye on?

calm wraith
#

There tend to be a lot of patches over the course of festivals for various things, so we'll see

deep anchor
#

though I hope my abso won't become dogshit

red nacelle
#

kind of sad that abso is still losing damage but I look forward to the funny ability trees I can try with it soon (provided mine doesnt roll terrible healing efficiency)

dense phoenix
stray river
red nacelle
#

the notice said they're coming with the festival

#

they're not out yet

stray river
#

saddening

red nacelle
#

actually wait it didnt say that, but it also doesnt technically mean theyre out now

#

and selvut said theyre coming with the festival

sullen scroll
#

yeah i was just about to ask here

#

salted’s saying they’re “live” now

stray river
red nacelle
#

In my head the "updated the game" means the update has been all set, but not that it has been released yet

sullen scroll
#

sooo

#

they pushed an update which fixed caves, changed items, and prepares some other stuff behind the scenes for the festival of heroes which will be pushed on friday

red nacelle
#

hmm the newest world is older than the notice

#

its 48 minutes old

#

and I can confirm nothing is changed in it

calm wraith
stray river
deep anchor
#

Eh whatever

calm wraith
#

it isnt as if learning about this a few hours later is gonna make or break anything

stray river
#

any minute now a world will reboot

calm wraith
#

Oh, it's also worth noting- after some talking we decided to manually set a floor for Healing Efficiency IDs. We haven't gone over them again yet, but the lowest base Healing Efficiency on armors and weapons, we have decided to be 10%, so items with less than 10% base healing efficiency, you can expect to receive some buffs to 10% or more, some time in the near future.

red nacelle
#

Oh so hellfire is for boiling blood
I was kind of right initially

calm wraith
#

The world updated?

red nacelle
#

I was expecting war scream a bit after it fit so well

#

Enderclaw posted a picture of apoc in blue's builds

#

Does always activates mean it ignores the cooldown and can be stacked?

stray river
pastel mason
#

my abso lost the water damage but got no healing efficiency skull

image.png
red nacelle
#

Wynntils is hiding it

#

Some setting needs to be changed I think

#

Actually it's not a new ID in the game so I'm not sure, but it's worth a check

pastel mason
#

I logged on on vanilla minecraft and no, it's just gone

red nacelle
#

Yeah ok something is up then

pastel mason
#

The unID'd stuff (lament, abso, etc) all show the healing efficiency ID but all the IDd ones don't have it

red nacelle
#

Yea apparently you have to reroll to get it now
Wait until it's fixed, don't panic

calm wraith
#

We are looking into why the new IDs aren't showing up.

#

Please don't panic-sell or reroll or whatever, we've already started looking into the issue

red nacelle
#

I hope it can be resolved quickly, although regardless I don't think I can try funny ability trees until tomorrow anyways

pastel mason
#

my abso is [4] skull i love this update

calm wraith
#

Please don't panic-sell or reroll or whatever, we've already started looking into the issue

sullen scroll
#

hm i think i will panic-sell, reroll, or whatever

Screen_Shot_2023-09-21_at_2.46.35_PM.jpg
gloomy flare
#

it would be heroic if there was a beta

weak haven
#

I love that Immolation is now physically un-usable unless if you have another relik to duel wield, cause swapping to potions is just gonna ruin everything, totems will disappear and your just gonna domed easily since you can't kill things or have the extra 70 def and 70 agi.

just my rant.

red nacelle
#

I assume you are forced to avoid sacrificial shrine and regeneration otherwise you lose hp or something?

#

Maybe there should be some sort of cap on how much -healing can reduce healing

weak haven
#

and also they should have made some kind of soft cap on the healing

#

cause im also pretty sure that Healing Efficiency also works against stuff like Greed

red nacelle
#

Yea it affects greed

#

You were the one that I’ve seen play pain cycle immo, right?
If so, then my condolences because I don’t think abso or Olympic with both defense and agi would make up for the facetanking potential in any meaningful way

weak haven
#

also, what's the difference in hpr and hpr%?

red nacelle
#

Hpr% multiplies the raw hpr value

weak haven
#

my original build can still work with absolution, just minor tweaks but its very inconsistant if I where to actually use it

weak haven
#

Or it gaining a large amount of life steal could be interesting

#

idk if thats affected by HE% as well

red nacelle
#

It is not

weak haven
#

awwww

#

no hyper heavy melee absolution face tank build

red nacelle
#

Hmelee Abso is kind of a dead idea anyways because you have no powder slots

#

And quake is half of hmelee damage

weak haven
#

True, I thought it would have gained some after this

red nacelle
#

Maybe it will, but it hasn’t yet

weak haven
#

cause now its just kind of, KoH with some damage

red nacelle
weak haven
red nacelle
#

I’d imagine immo is still one of the things on the mind of item balancers, so there might still be hope for it

#

It’s in a weird spot right now but the issue is known

weak haven
#

I hope they balance it out somehow

#

its just an odd weapon on its on, basically fire air cata

#

it would be cool to see a major ID on a shaman mythic though

#

but chances of that happening I think are close to 0

robust delta
# red nacelle I assume you are forced to avoid sacrificial shrine and regeneration otherwise y...

tested it earlier
it doesn't drain health with super low healing efficiency
so having a different (absolution-shaped) relik as a healing offhand miiiiight work?
Though given the health commitment for anything acolyte related, and the semi-slow effects of regeneration makes me think building hpr cancel is the best option still.

Is it unusable, probably not, but I was a little spooked by the change anyway

calm wraith
#

Healing Efficiency does not turn healing negative below -100%, it just reduces it to 0. idk why everyone was freakin out over it, but there's your proof.

#

Level was obviously cheated for sake of having a large health pool to work with

sullen scroll
#

FRUMA NEW LEVEL CAP LEAK 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯

#

i like the background music

calm wraith
deep anchor
pastel mason
#

an actual fruma leak!!

fervent cliff
#

@calm wraith i wanna know whether apoc major id will be nerfed in the future lol

#

and whether tested this major id lol

worthy kiln
#

i am 100% sure htis major id was not tested

#

because aint no way it stacking was intentional

calm wraith
#

We do plan to nerf it

#

but the entire point of Hellfire is "boiling blood puddles linger and stack up"

worthy kiln
strong field
#

its

#

a little strong....

#

im dealing 600k dps with apoc build

#

was this really tested?

#

if you are planning to nerf a major id why is it released and in game rn...

calm wraith
# strong field was this really tested?

Yes, it really was tested. Due to misleading wording and none of Warrior's skills really taking advantage of it too hard, we didn't realize to this point that Discombobulate's raw spell damage added wasn't subject to the normal rules of raw spell, where it is affected by your spell's multiplier.

#

discombobulate's damage increase is <the entire formula> + discombobulate damage

#

so because of that it ended up way, WAY stronger than anticipated

#

We're human and we miss things

calm wraith
pastel mason
strong field
#

what

calm wraith
#

Incidentally, the nerf we've chosen is to keep the overall damage the same, but just remove the neutral conversion so it's purely fire damage.

strong field
#

wtf

calm wraith
# strong field what

They're trying to say that because I haven't been on the main servers and have been doing my testing on the testing servers I don't know how the game works.

strong field
pastel mason
#

my dude, the fact that this funny apoc ID went live the way it is....isn't helping your case

calm wraith
#

If it's still insane after this we'll consider reducing duration, or tick speed damage, or whatever.

strong field
#

disabling discomb just about halves damage

#

it wont be too strong

calm wraith
#

wasn't trying to be sarcastic at you, sorry

strong field
#

welp time to abuse apocaylse until the next emergency patch

#

im gonna have some fun with this

small citrus
#

33 effective wd on all healing items is gonna be cool as fuck

fervent cliff
#

i also wanna know whether identification will change after bug fixed , example abso

lost gulch
#

BTW, why do you need 2 master catalysts to swap Qira Master Hive items now?

deep anchor
fervent cliff
#

@calm wraith do you know many players are dissatisfied with abso healing efficiency random identification adding ? lol

#

especially , old players

red nacelle
#

They are very aware

#

Supposedly the item team had asked for a mechanic to transfer the roll several times but the dev team had other priorities

pastel mason
#

like what

fervent cliff
#

so they chose the worst method

pastel mason
#

imo the only acceptable excuse is that they're coding in a fancy new raid (hopefully one that isn't as damage-or-nothing as TNA) and a lootrun

fervent cliff
#

replacing seems not difficult to do

shy ferry
#

why are you pinging ct about this when they couldnt make that decision?

fervent cliff
#

but i think CT should ensure players game experience

shy ferry
wispy peak
#

What changes in the grand scheme is that your players will get increasingly annoyed by decisions like this one and start abandoning the server (it has already started)

deep anchor
#

Can we start pinging devs for that not sevlut

#

He effectively had no choice and it's devs fault at the end

#

It is devs that don't listen to the community yet ct is getting bashed for it

strong field
#

blame the patriarchy

strong field
#

bash scream reference

deep anchor
#

ok mr funnyman

rocky kernel
#

they probably have pings supressed in here

smoky ruin
#

thanks item team for ruining my abso very cool i love this change

deep anchor
wispy peak
#

same

deep anchor
#

just in case

wispy peak
smoky ruin
#

have you considered just like, not being an im selvut

#

i'd give it some thought

deep anchor
wispy peak
#

fym that shit was mad 😭

deep anchor
#

though it's still better for purely healing than it used to

wispy peak
#

99% as in 1% away from max

deep anchor
#

wait

#

you meant roll in % not actuall wd value

wispy peak
#

yeah

strong field
#

yes genius

wispy peak
#

258% if you will

strong field
#

honestly having godly items suck now is a skill issue

wispy peak
#

should have had better luck

strong field
#

so true

deep anchor
#

now we should make a forum post complaining about these changes and mentioning all the devs there
they can't ignore forums

strong field
#

who even are devs

smoky ruin
#

we should force rr more items

wispy peak
deep anchor
#

salted

wispy peak
#

zeer and zeer

deep anchor
#

and battledash I think

rocky kernel
#

should have had enough luck to get a godly item twice so get gud

smoky ruin
#

so true

rocky kernel
#

(if my godly warp gets force rerolled il litteraly burn down something)

deep anchor
#

my abso is mid now (it was green wd)

image.png
smoky ruin
#

comedic

deep anchor
#

like 80% roll now it's 50 :/

gloomy flare
rocky kernel
#

my red water dmg abso is now yellowish so im wining

deep anchor
#

roll range is 30-130

gloomy flare
#

yeah but it'll probably be higher than 55 overall. still dont like these changes

deep anchor
gloomy flare
#

yea ik but the overall will be higher when they add it so thats a plus i guess 😁👍

deep anchor
#

blame devs for not implementing roll preservation

#

they should give one free simulator for everyone that it's owning abso

#

fr

rocky kernel
deep anchor
#

warframe >>>> wynncraft. Devs do care about nerfs and will give you resources back for whatever you were using that is nerfed

smoky ruin
#

huge shoutout to me logging back on after 2 years and getting a ton of items from stuff they nerfed

strong field
smoky ruin
strong field
#

fire in the hole

deep anchor
fervent cliff
#

anyway , i random this

XQIUJTRUDSWWQQCK09.png
#

already locked

deep anchor
#

also funny bug

deep anchor
fervent cliff
#

cool apoc

deep anchor
#

NOOO IT LOCKED ON THE BAD VALUE

#

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS BUG TO REROLL ME TO WORSE

fervent cliff
#

lol

red nacelle
#

What even locks it

fervent cliff
#

btw this is not bug , and its dev done

deep anchor
#

WHAT THE FUCK ITS THIS IT WAS 17% AND NOW IT'S ON WORST VALUE POSSIBLE

#

@opaque junco WHY YOU CAN'T CODE PROPERLY

smoky ruin
#

coding is hard did you try codeine

deep anchor
#

THIS IS JUST A FUCKING SPAGHETTI

#

WHY CAN'T YOU EVEN INTERACT WITH MARKET EVEN IF YOU HAVE WRONG WEAPON HOLDING

#

I think I'll be considering to quit wynncraft for good

wispy peak
#

THATS WHAT IM SAYING

deep anchor
#

yep all Items I cared for have net worse rolls

#

maybe I don't care much about abso but I WILL NOT forgive the apoc bullshit I have witnessed

tepid ravine
sullen cobalt
deep anchor
#

And it obviously locked at worse values than they were

paper spade
#

it's rerolled

#

every new stat is always rerolled cuz else it'd be a nightmare on the dev side

#

so it's a non-corkian amps reroll, you gotta deal with it

paper spade
strong field
#

@calm wraith i would consider buffing iosis, major id is decent but not super strong, has effectively 30 spell but only on three elements and meh amount of sp with -hpr and it has high defense requirements

#

this item is so god damn mid and this is supposed to be a fabled

paper spade
#

tf even is iosis ?

strong field
#

new fabled fire item that is super ass

paper spade
#

oh, is it only recorded on the patchnote ?

strong field
#

it might not be

#

but it is in game

paper spade
#

alr

red nacelle
deep anchor
red nacelle
#

The damage IDs go somewhere into the 30s

strong field
#

mid as fuck

paper spade
#

yea this looks pretty useless

deep anchor
#

What slot

strong field
#

helm

paper spade
#

also, is bash cancelled on recast if you spam it ?

strong field
red nacelle
#

The defense req is intended to be a restriction on what can use it, it doesn't make the item weaker

deep anchor
strong field
red nacelle
#

Only with the current meta

deep anchor
strong field
#

this will have no use

deep anchor
strong field
red nacelle
#

I'm more annoyed at it having a very normal amount of damage between both the IDs and major ID, but then still being given -hpr for what feels like no reason

deep anchor
#

And phage on top of that

strong field
#

rip health

paper spade
#

yea it looks like it was meant to be with apoc but not too strong so lets make those incompatible

#

also infernal impulse is a thing, even at lvl
so I see really few reasons to use this

strong field
#

it seems meant for apoc but just an ok major id doesn’t make it good for it

strong field
paper spade
#

ii is a pants

strong field
#

yeah

#

?

paper spade
#

and does a great job at neglecting any hpr issue with apoc

strong field
#

what does that have to do with it though

#

that item is not pants nor does it fix the apoc hpr issues

paper spade
#

ok mb I thought it was pants

strong field
#

its helmet

paper spade
#

I'm so close from doing a viable full fabled apoc build at lvl....

lost gulch
#

these random rrs on some items got me tweaking tho

dense phoenix
dense phoenix
calm wraith
stray river
#

the people are waking 😨

#

what is your response to this Devastating Attack selvut?!?

pastel mason
#

no way I'm quitting wynn

#

it's funnier to meme on the CT and IT and watch them flounder

#

these changes were tested (real and true) !!!!

stray river
small citrus
#

me when the volunteer team operates on a volunteer basis 🤯

#

if you wanna get mad at people for not doing shit like transferring ids yell at the paid devs/owner not the poor fellas putting in their own time for no reward

stray river
#

@opaque junco fix the problems with wynncraft

small citrus
#

real

split temple
#

I still think that converting Water Damage to Healing Efficiency on a lot of items is good on paper, but I don't think it's a good idea to roll out any changes like that until they have the system to freely modify pre-existing items. It's pretty frustrating to hear that they "just can't" when it comes to making Water Damage into Healing Effectiveness, and if it's really just impossible somehow, they should probably hold off. A bunch of mythics got absolutely gutted in value 😭

#

All the 40% healing absols bro 💀

wispy peak
#

Y'all r on a steak buddy 😁 keep it up 👍

calm wraith
#

Acting like that isnt gonna stop us making changes, it's just gonna make us less likely to take the community and its opinions into account when we get relentlessly insulted

#

I certainly want to take stuff into account where it's possible to do so but whenever I do and all I get are insults, I sort of start to wonder why I bother, yknow

maiden glade
# pastel mason Selvut is a member of the team and therefore represents it. It's not like being ...

hi im reading this back because i saw it was an active thread involving items and this is genuinely the worst thing said here so

it's amazingly rude to give every single CT member the stinkeye for every single thing you dislike about the game, and especially attempting to blame them for something they had nothing to do with (which is a lot- you would be surprised how little influence CT members can have even as far as their own role is concerned)

but expecting every CT member to be a paragon and handle all matters professionally and cordially and whatever other business terms you have is insane- everyone on the team is just a player who liked wynn enough to help out as a volunteer, without any financial compensation or sometimes even appreciation, and by that they should never have to treat their status on the CT as a job towards others either

selvut was kinda rude but people were egging him on a lot so idfk go find a high horse somewhere else, and don't fault someone for being a person again holy shit

gloomy flare
#

not saying people should be insulting but people have made fairly valid criticisms about how this has all been handled

calm wraith
gloomy flare
#

i mean there's a difference between listening to the community and withdrawing from the community

calm wraith
#

like, all I'm asking is that people not regurgitate insults when they give their feedback

gloomy flare
#

again i think some of the criticisms are valid (e.g. playing on live vs gm servers) but i think its just mostly frustration

calm wraith
#

if we fucked up and there was something more we could have done, thats one thing but I was responding to a statement that was absolutely nothing but a big fat "f--k you"

maiden glade
#

usually IMs are as frustrated alongside the players when something suddenly breaks lol

strong field
#

people should be more civil

calm wraith
lost gulch
#

On a more unrelated note, do we have an ETA on when the rerolling bug will be not a thing

#

It’s actually so goofy lol

maiden glade
#

considering the significance of the bug i imagine once it's fixed it's basically getting pushed asap

lost gulch
#

I hope so

calm wraith
#

same

lost gulch
maiden glade
#

but bugfixing esp when it comes to this kind of stuff is all in the dev's hands so IMs can't help anymore than just forwarding it to the devs and making sure it's known

lost gulch
#

At least Wynncraft didn’t delete items during this patch (yet)

gloomy flare
#

personally i think the changes suck but most of the frustration comes from the fact that from the community's perspective that devs have said that the potential loss of value (through no actual fault other than dev time) is "a relatively minor thing in the grand scheme"

calm wraith
#

I've been told it's only visual a couple times, even without wynntils so hopefully it just looks kinda goofy

lost gulch
gloomy flare
#

like obviously exaggerated but having perfect water damage go to dogshit roll of healing effectiveness can lose you stacks

maiden glade
#

the worst part is when an actual item stat glitch happens (which has been the case at least twice) but you can't discern the real reports from wynntils users spampinging every blue object in vicinity over their mod breaking item display