Stop making so many useless niche major ids

[grave cypress]

That is the most like, inflated fucking power creep ever

[tropic oasis]

But he also wanted them to at least in some way appeal to minmaxers. We disagreed on how that should happen- Salted wanted the base tome stats- weapon damage, resistance to mobs- to be rollable.

The IMs vehemently disagreed and suggested adding a bunch of tome variants with different IDs on them so that people could still sort of pick and choose.

[mortal pike]

I mean, the is especially true for skill point tomes specifically

[grave cypress]

Well, even if you can't understand why they shouldn't be complicated or powerful, at least understand just the fact that they shouldn't be.

[mortal pike]

In some cases tomes are the thing standing between using a build and having it be completely unusable

[tropic oasis]

Yeah, honestly adding skill points to weapon tomes is something I regret.

[mortal pike]

Welp, too late to change it

Too many endgame builds depend on it

[ruby vine]

It is called a Mastery Tome, and I know of seldom games where masteries were any more than minor number buffs.

[frozen hinge]

Then the only skill points would be locked behind guild tomes (awful idea imo)

[grave cypress]

Completely invalid argument

[mortal pike]

What if I don’t want to do guild stuff : (

[frozen hinge]

Exactly

[mortal pike]

Then again same can be said for literally every piece of content

“What if I don’t want to do <content>”

[frozen hinge]

Guild stuff RELYS on other people it really can’t be done solo, that’s my issue with it

[grave cypress]

Guild stuff demands a lot more than quests or even group content like raids or dungeons

[tropic oasis]

That's why guild tomes give a fairly small amount of skill points.

It was meant to be minor- but being able to get up to +3 in all or +8 or +9 in one is kinda too much.

[frozen hinge]

To this point y’all still have items like sviel a lvl 80 something helm be meta/fun still, it seem y’all are ok with low level items still finding its way into end game meta

[grave cypress]

What. That doesn't have anything to do with my point

[ruby vine]

Appeal to Tradition yes...
I'm not entirely sure if that completely invalidates it though?
(also I'm agreeing with you? What's the big idea?)

[grave cypress]

It's not even appeal to tradition. It doesn't matter what it's called. It could be called Piss Shit Book and it doesn't change what it is mechanically

[frozen hinge]

You were worried about adding “end game” content to lvl 100 because it would effect lvl 120 content like fruma. Y’all already deal with this like s viel?

[grave cypress]

You SEVERELY misinterpret my point

[frozen hinge]

Oh ic

[grave cypress]

Im saying if we give you more power at level 105 from tomes we then have to counter your power with the difficulty of Fruma, which then means that those powerful tomes are now required by all players to deal with content in Fruma

Scarlet Veil isn't good just as a single piece of equipment. It's held up in the later game by other lategame equipment that synergizes with its major id

[frozen hinge]

Yes, don’t balance the game around mythics type of idea

[tropic oasis]

It's also worth noting that we want to spread out major IDs more, but the intent had been to do so primarily with IDs like Explosive Impact- things which provided a tangible general effect rather than just augmenting a spell necessarily. We had a whole list of major IDs that messed with a spell's characteristics in a different way, or messed with IDs differently, or had other effects, that we just straight up don't have a dedicated coder to make now- so we're stuck doing smaller augments anymore.

[frozen hinge]

Maybe I’m weird but I used s viel from basically the moment I got it till end game

[ruby vine]

Sveil is held up because it's a +1 tier with no req. That's it.

[frozen hinge]

This explains a lot aswell

[tropic oasis]

I mentioned as such earlier.

[wicked latch]

elemental dmg lootrun tomes are pretty goated already

did i do it? did i contribute to the conversation??

[frozen hinge]

Rlly? I havent done the math in how they scale

[tropic oasis]

Stuff like Heart of the Pack or Freerunner are a lot more interesting than Reckless Abandon, and a lot more free and general. We had plenty of ideas on how to change spells, too, but a lot of those were complex and involve hardcoding rather than parameters we have access to.

[frozen hinge]

What are the barriers for that work to be done? Do more bodies need to be hired? Does Wynn need a higher budget overall?

[tropic oasis]

Like, just as an example, we can't exactly make a major ID that does...idk, when a melee enemy hits you they get scared and stunned for a second every so often. That isn't something we had on the list, but it's an example of the kinds of things we wanted

[frozen hinge]

Why not? Would you not be able to apply like the coding to taught to an invisible armor stand for example?

[tropic oasis]

Or...turning Ice Snake into giant ice spikes that's less about slowing enemies and more about dealing Big Damage, or something like that.

Those mess with functions in a way that IMs, who can't dig into the game's code and can only do small edits to files, cannot do.

[frozen hinge]

Does this come back to Wynn just might want to hire more people potentially?

[tropic oasis]

Or, heck, I'm willing to give this away- I wanted to have a whole series of major IDs in the vein of Rally so that every class could have some manner of healing ability.

[frozen hinge]

I definitely understand it’s still shaky understanding the steady income silverbull brings in so stuff like that is weird to talk about

[tropic oasis]

Like, wouldn't that be cool?

But we can't do it.

[frozen hinge]

It would. For me the biggest problem on assassin is healing ruins the flow of its game play

[tropic oasis]

Not without a dedicated coder.

[wicked latch]

Escape no longer damages enemies, heal 10% of your hp when escaping

[tropic oasis]

So we very much are stuck with this sort of thing right now.

[wicked latch]

how was this done in the past?

[frozen hinge]

I know everyone jokes about salted yachts but is this really such a hard barrier to achieve?

[untold night]

I think I would love that, mostly because lately I've found that my builds with ehp but no healing discourage me from utilizing that ehp as much as the ones that do heal and it's rather annoying

[frozen hinge]

Like realistic we are talking like the equivalent of needing 400+ people to get silverbull to fund something like this

[paper basalt]

https://tenor.com/view/uni-cat-1000-yard-stare-espresso-gif-5540644428338043927

wtf did i just wake up to look at this

[marsh wolf]

thousand b0ob stare

[frozen hinge]

Fr

I can’t tell if it’s a soldier turning into a cat or a cat turning into a soldier

[paper basalt]

i dont think healing is a major issue, the most of the major id that is in only in midgame level is

ik you want more interaction with midgame, but doesnt that also make lategame extremely boring (it is)

[frozen hinge]

What are some of the mid game MID that don’t have any end game counter parts

You can keep the mid game ones just add a variation 40+ levels later aswell

[paper basalt]

the items that is added in 2.0.3 (mostly) have MID that lategame doesnt have

[frozen hinge]

One of the feeling I kinda hated was trading out super unique mid level MID items for semi boring but good items just cause they fianlly got out scaled so hard even though it was fun

I don’t have any direct examples since my level’s experience was like 4+ years ago at this point

[frozen hinge]

Wait would having someone who actually know this shit mean the hard cap 400% walk speed could actually be able to be touched and manipulated

Cause if so I’d definitely give more support if possible knowing it would go to fun shit like that

[marsh wolf]

Tremblor

[tropic oasis]

I mean a coder dedicated to just that, or at least code time from one of the devs we do have devoted to it when there's a lot more objectively more important things to put that money and time towards

[paper basalt]

maybe you could add a MID to an item that could be upgraded

[mortal pike]

Any amount of additional skill points still opens up a whole heckuva lot of builds

If I had a nickel for every time I see a Wynnbuilder build that requires 201-203 skill points

[cyan flame]

tomes are single handedly carrying warp builds

you can have the worst build but if it spam sp and hpr/dmg tomes you can get something usable

[frail root]

stop insulting people ffs. You’re CT and you should be more professional in your responses.

[gray ermine]

No, you can't leave them. Greed was shadownerfed that only emeralds that lie on the ground less than 15s can heal you

15 or 20

[paper basalt]

you cant drop one em and pick it up, that doesnt work

[frozen hinge]

What type of stuff do you guys have access to? I understand y’all won’t be creating black hole meteors any time soon but like what are some examples of stuff that is more on the table?

[grave cypress]

Yet you didn't ping me, so your goal wasn't to say that to my face, but was instead to say it behind my back

[polar lark]

Some people just don't ping in replies

[grave cypress]

And it's ridiculous that you'd even say "be more professional" when firstly, none of your messages are "professional", and secondly, we're both volunteers who work on this project as a hobby

Obviously you're not going to even read this because you decided to block me, so I can't even talk to you directly about the issue

[sullen gorge]

I wish that you could reply and not ping, but still highlight the text for people to notice

[shell peak]

bro really proved their point

[sullen gorge]

I'm hoping a new class, but new abilites (Probs like 3 more summons for summoner somehow) would be cool

[frozen hinge]

I’ve heard you are one of the people in charge of skins/mob visual design. I think you do a very good job of what you do. I think majority of the mobs added recently have quite a lot of “love and attention” shown in their silly models

As much as I wish CT were like paid professionals, it’s just not the situation currently

[frozen hinge]

Madline just “needs” to learn a simple lesson

[frozen hinge]

Salted teasing a new class got me extremely excited Ngl

[sullen gorge]

?

[shell peak]

i need this as a gif

[frozen hinge]

I don’t have it as a gif sadly

I’m sorry

[polar lark]

don't think that's happening sadly

[sullen gorge]

Why not?

[polar lark]

the class at least there might be new ability tree stuff

[polar lark]

if they're going through all the effort of making fruma they're not also going to make an entire new class

[sullen gorge]

Tru

[frozen hinge]

I thought salted confirm in one of those YouTube interview a whole entire class was almost done already, I could be miss remembering

[shell peak]

he did not

he said he had plans for a new class when developing shaman but never got around to it

[polar lark]

Pretty sure he never said that

[shell peak]

he also said he wanted to one day finish that class but who knows when that will be if ever

[vernal creek]

Owo

New class pog ... Having to go hunt a MID not as pog

[frozen hinge]

Eeek

Will void charm be updated when tna is no longer the final end game content?

Cause again who TF cares about 20% sprint regen fr

[vernal glacier]

there is no way they were left bugged for this long what the fuck 💀💀💀💀💀💀

[frozen hinge]

#1194688509680832532 message @gloomy breach if you could answer, I hope I pinged the right person

[grave cypress]

... yea.

[grave cypress]

thanks.

I just need to learn when to not say anything at all

I'm probably never going to be able to prevent myself from becoming unnecessarily irate, but I should really try to just put that anger elsewhere. Go furiously scribble on a piece of paper or something.

It's like I walk through life wearing horse blinders

[frozen hinge]

It’s understandable, honestly I really don’t blame you all the much. Sometimes I would like to be able to be kind to you and have to be returned but that is asking a lot of strangers that already don’t like each other

[shell peak]

ngl what madeline said there wasnt even that bad

[shell peak]

this is fucking hilarious

[grave cypress]

It's not the severity, it's the frequency

[frozen hinge]

Ya kinda, I beef with Madeline just a bit too much for it to be appropriate

[shell peak]

that is so fucking funny if the mana tomes have just been bugged all this time 😭

[grave cypress]

They're meant to be more yeah 😭

[frozen hinge]

Is there a reason for mana steal to be less than regen? I feel like steal is often more effort to try to activate, Is it really just cause it’s triggered every 3 seconds instead of 5?

[frail root]

I didnt even realize they were bugged. I thought they were just really really bad

[wicked latch]

Looni aka linnyflower

[frozen hinge]

I wanna die

I knew I was tweaking lmao

[marsh wolf]

professionalism = profession = getting paid

[frail root]

is it bad that the first thing I think of when someone says the word professions is wynncraft professions

[marsh wolf]

it was really hard not to type “ = wynncraft professions” when i was writing that. you’re not alone ❤️

[frail root]

😌

[tropic oasis]

We can edit pre-existing parameters on spells. What parameters a spell has differs from spell to spell. As an example- Overwhelm edits the amount of hits Bash does by adding two of them.

[tropic oasis]

Dunno.

[frozen hinge]

Like potentially you could add like +4 extra guardian angles but couldn’t make something like meteors now have homing

[tropic oasis]

if adding more guardian angels was a parameter yes

[ruby vine]

I mean, I'd think it would be, given the existence of More Shields, but I'm not qualified to know that...

[wicked latch]

could spawn them extra time, that used to be a thing

[frozen hinge]

Are parameters so hyper specific you can’t really give general ideas for stuff that can be changed? I don’t do any coding at all so I really don’t understand how this stuff works

[gray ermine]

Are they hard coded like that

[untold night]

If I had to place a guess, the fact that the position that the guardian angles sit at is not determined by math might be the reason
Can't just add more without setting their positions manually

[frozen hinge]

I only wonder about this for how sourcery use to work, it use to be possible double stack g angels and get 8 (semi fun)

[untold night]

When that worked, the duplicates would be exactly on top of the normal positions

[frozen hinge]

Is there a problem with that? Unless I’m miss understanding what you said

[sullen gorge]

Wat void charm do xD

[untold night]

What I'm saying is that this wouldn't be something to copy to determine the behavior of adding more guardian angles

[frozen hinge]

Ah I thought it would be just as simple as more angles on top of each other

[frozen hinge]

It give sprint and sprint regen….

[sullen gorge]

Good to know

[marsh wolf]

exacrly what i was gonna say

[buoyant scroll]

add more items to make those major id actually work

[cyan flame]

you can do that by pinging @silent at the start of your message. as long as you dont select the autofill for a person whose username is "silent"

[sullen gorge]

Tysm