Invis Parkour QoL [EO]

[shut quiver]

try the people who were stuck for 20 minutes.

[foggy lily]

I was stuck for 20 mins and I’m fine with it

[pale totem]

While I personally find it difficult to believe I've had reports of people being stuck for upwards of an hour.

[shut quiver]

ok and? that's you

[merry cliff]

bro u do not need to remember anything, u just LOOK and JUMP at the same time xd

[pale totem]

You're not being helpful.

[merry cliff]

saying there is a problem when there isnt isnt being helpful is the point

[foggy lily]

And everyone outside of this thread who I’ve talked to

[empty stream]

nmw moment

[pale totem]

I'm trying to judge by what people are complaining about and understand the issue, so just saying "thats not a problem" every time someone describes the problem is actively hindering me from doing what I'm trying to do.

[shut quiver]

had a fair amount of people complain when it was their friend that was stuck.

[void pulsar]

wtf 1k message yall need to calm down and stop arguing for a second

[merry cliff]

im trying to hinder u from interpreting a non problem as a problem

[pale totem]

I can judge things for myself.

[merry cliff]

which is my whole stance on the "issue"

[naive zodiac]

the main issue i have is that the parkour is just too difficult for it to be completed in a party in a timely manner, which leads to some people sitting outside because they completed the parkour easily for 20/30/40 minutes while waiting for their friends to finish

[warped arch]

left one is 2nd

[merry cliff]

ur still trying to figure out if there is a problem, so i doubt that

[shut quiver]

Another issue i was told by someone which was an interesting in is some people apparently had shakey hand issues which normally wouldn't matter but when it came to perspective stuff it made their aim go off?

[foggy lily]

Can I also complain that I’m not getting enough mythics? They should make the rates like 30% chance for a mythic

[shut quiver]

Mythics aren't an accessibility issue.

[pale totem]

The jury in a court case has to hear the evidence and arguments before they make their decision. You're going "well the dude's obviously guilty so we don't even need to hear the other side"

[foggy lily]

U only need to do eo once so like just deal with it

[merry cliff]

thats something u could bring forth, but then, how is that anyones problem? isnt it that they struggle at like almost anything anyway? how would making it too easy / boring for people without this issue be justified to account for that xd

[naive zodiac]

sorry id rather fix issues than just let them persist

[foggy lily]

If it’s for accessibility issues i understand but if ur completely capable of doing it the just do it

[pale totem]

When the guy who made the content is trying to critically examine things you don't just say "nah theyre just being dumb dont worry about it"

[shut quiver]

It never apparently came up in game outside of archer because of how spells are basically "in front of you is gonna get hit"

[empty stream]

why even bring up accessibility issues when it would expand to so many different facets of the game that isnt just eo parkour

[rain robin]

untradable reward items bought with eye pupils:

[foggy lily]

They’re not even that good lmao

[naive zodiac]

the nothing:

[shut quiver]

That was the gist i got from him. it was mostly for really precise stuff.

[naive zodiac]

and pr*ffers but like we dont talk about that

[merry cliff]

ah well that is unlucky then

[void pulsar]

not even good

[foggy lily]

Last time I saw someone using the nothing was me like 2 months after 2.0 dropped

[naive zodiac]

wtf is the nothing not like the choice for nonmythic mage now?

[void pulsar]

cascade morrowind third wish exists

[rain robin]

ambivalence 😔

[empty stream]

it's shocking how people will make uncomplicated things complicated

[void pulsar]

i can make morrowind deal warp dps

[merry cliff]

u mean when they talk about eo parkour

[empty stream]

yes

[shut quiver]

Anyway before it goes off topic the accessibility issue is mostly since in other areas there isn't much that actively make the game extremely hard. Outside of concentration issues and very slow reflexes which the game is built around a bit

[merry cliff]

like taking an easy parkour without problems and calling it hard

either way the parkour is so easy its actually hard for high walkspeed is my only issue

[shut quiver]

The only reason EO is the exception is because of how out of nowhere the difficulty comes from.

[naive zodiac]

it may be easy to you but you are not the only person

wynncraft notably has like a thousand people online rn

[merry cliff]

most people find it easy, the rest will have to live with it

[shut quiver]

If the game was making harder parkour over time as you played wynn then sure it's making sure to test you

[naive zodiac]

could you prove that most people find it easy

[shut quiver]

But the hardest parkour beforehand is RoL 3 and that's more just average difficulty

[bold quarry]

Yea because people totally enters the endgame dungeon thinking its gonna be easy

[shut quiver]

They expect the combat to be hard

[naive zodiac]

(which it isnt, thats another issue tho)

[warped arch]

https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1163076128685162549

[meager lark]

that is the most ableist shit I've heard in a while

[shut quiver]

yeah, but you get what i mean, the game builds up the combat

[naive zodiac]

people enter the endgame dungeon thinking itll be like and maybe a bit more difficult than the other stuff around the level

[merry cliff]

most people i hear from and most people i played with find it easy, thus i believe it to be easy
27 downvotes on this thread
multiple threads about EO parkour nerf, always recieved negatively and never any changes
i think the pattern is clear

[naive zodiac]

to semi quote xae "27 out of 1400"

[merry cliff]

see the problem is making it EVEN easier is just down right negative for most people

[naive zodiac]

constructive feedback threads rarely make changes, even the one asking for chat improvements that got 80 something 's

[meager lark]

nah please stop talking. you're digging your own grave

[shut quiver]

Can't believe i'm saying this but can we stop with the ableism

[merry cliff]

most things are rather in the works

[bold quarry]

Thats the semi quote of all time

Its not 1400 people reading constructive feedback

[shut quiver]

And it's not 1400 people reading shouts

[merry cliff]

???Xd

[warped arch]

• most people clear the parkour easily
• some just cant bc their brains work different
  problem:
  how to make it easier for those people without making it too easy for the other people?

[bold quarry]

Ive said it before and ill say it again you can not use statistics here

[empty stream]

i predict this thread will be locked

[merry cliff]

without making it too easy for the other people*

[warped arch]

yes

[shut quiver]

... as i said just give people a skip option after a certain time

[naive zodiac]

didnt you ask for statistics

[shut quiver]

it'll be enough that if you're good you won't see it, but someone's not gonna be stuck in the same room for half an hour

[warped arch]

this is already a thing in some quest parkour

[pale totem]

Here- I took screenshots of the EO parkour with barriers turned visible. If we only judge the parkour by how these jumps look, it looks really easy outside of maybe a couple of jumps on the last level, right? Let's focus on just answering this question without any extra comments, please. If we take this one step at a time it'll be easier for me to figure out

[merry cliff]

first time i did EO parkour it took me like 10 minutes, i wouldve found it very annoying to have an easy way out

[naive zodiac]

alright yes lets go do selvut stuff stop arguing people

[rain robin]

said quests only do this because they use minecarts which simply stop working in server lag

[shut quiver]

yeah which i honestly am glad about.
And the skip option only appears after a certain amount of time

[bold quarry]

Yea from the mod that came off as if he had them, and then i asked the guy who shouted and kept bringing up statistics and he said that the laughable number of 9 is the amount of people thinking the parkour needs a nerf

[shut quiver]

i.e 10 minutes and then you can skip it, how is that annoying

[meager lark]

oh yeah the parkour is stupid easy without the whole perspective stuff

[merry cliff]

cuz i spent the time and improved, i would not have improved if i didnt continue

[bold quarry]

And i want a million dollars, how is that annoying

[shut quiver]

what if someone can't improve on that specific parkour?

[merry cliff]

what if someone is blind and cannot play wynncraft

[bold quarry]

Can i get whatever i want in this world

[shut quiver]

2 different analogies. One can't play the game one can but struggles in literally 1 area

[pale totem]

Okay, of the seven or eight people talking right now we got one answer...

[merry cliff]

can we just make the game 2 button presses if u fail to complete enzans brother quest within the first 25 minutes of gameplay

[naive zodiac]

some of these jumps seem a bit iffy but doable, otherwise yeah pretty easy

[shut quiver]

Anyway yeah with the actual platforms can already see it's much easier

[warped arch]

it is really easy that way

[pale totem]

First image are diagonal two-blocks, second image is a straight three-block, which are the longest jumps to make.

[shut quiver]

Should of probably asked which jump people struggle on cause i realise now invisibly that jump is a weird one

the left one*

[twilit shore]

Yea those jumps do kinda suck

[pale totem]

So, it's very clear that the difficulty comes really from the perspective much more than the jumps that you have to make in general.

[shut quiver]

Yeah, like the jumps themselves are easy, it's just the perspective that's the problem for people

[pale totem]

With maybe one or two exceptions, none of these jumps are anything out of the realm of things players have done before, excepting the perspective.

Which, again, it was the point, but if it's really that difficult for people to wrap their heads around...

[shut quiver]

I think it's more just struggling to deal with the lack of seeable? platforms? if you get what i mean

[naive zodiac]

LMAO

[merry cliff]

actually 10 minutes per section sounds reasonable

[shut quiver]

That was what i meant

[naive zodiac]

i was going to look at my video i have of an eo run i did and took a video of but no
i just escape fly past the parkour LMAO

[shut quiver]

10 minutes per section and it'll give an option to just send you to the next section. And then again if it hits 10 minutes again

[naive zodiac]

(why did you have to remove it smh smh)

[warped arch]

right image

[merry cliff]

yep that works for me

[pale totem]

If that were the whole deal then I wouldn't bother with nerfing it, but people are saying it's more than that.

[shut quiver]

I think some people want it to still be beatable but still helped where others i think they'd prefer not dealing with it entirely

[merry cliff]

how about u make a little less jump spams right after another which cripples people that rush through with high walk speed

[pale totem]

Oh, so you're saying a high walk speed is the issue?

[merry cliff]

no i am saying for me that is an issue

[pale totem]

I beg to differ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt95D6V1SRk

[shut quiver]

I'll be honest, i can confirm it isn't walkspeed at all

[merry cliff]

im talking like 120% walk speed speed 3

[pale totem]

That's a perfect WS Harwrol. 182% ws on that.

It's really stop and go, but most of the parkour is like that anyways.

Walk Speed is 100% not the problem here.

[shut quiver]

i think the entire issue is just perspective doesn't go well for some people.

[merry cliff]

thats what im saying, the stop and go is really annoying
it wasnt like that at all before the changes

[pale totem]

You never played this before then.

[merry cliff]

i did a shit ton of runs before and after

[pale totem]

It was even more stop-and-go in its original incarnation. Most of the platforms were much smaller, and you had to adjust your angle a lot more.

[merry cliff]

naww it really wasnt tho

[shut quiver]

I will say selvut btw when i asked people it was that last section

[pale totem]

You're talking with the person who made the content. Get off your high horse.

[untold stratus]

i can vouch for NMW. Walkspeed definitely makes it harder

[pale totem]

Harder yes, entirely the problem no.

[shut quiver]

i think it being higher than the other 3 makes it harder for them to tell where they're jumping exactly

[merry cliff]

i never said it was part of the original problem? xd

its just if ur gonna change it just make bigger platforms (longer)

[pale totem]

"I didn't say it was a bouncy ball, I just said it was spherical, red, and made of rubber"

Anyways.

[rain robin]

in that case

[shut quiver]

Had an outlier of someone saying the first section but I will say the complaints really amped up once the last one got added

[merry cliff]

also ur showcase is slow as hell, considering u claim its high walkspeed

[rain robin]

remove your gear???

[shut quiver]

Because sneak

[untold stratus]

true

[merry cliff]

im talking like 40 seconds slower

[pale totem]

I literally showed the stats in the video. You can see it when I have the stats menu pulled up.

Add the 33% from the harwrol, you get 182%.

[merry cliff]

dats not the point, im saying it becomes rlly hard when u try to go like twice as fast as u if not more

[shut quiver]

But it's a slow and steady parkour.

[pale totem]

In what world do you need 370% walk speed.

[merry cliff]

without stops and so on, which pre changes i had no problems with and now its hard
it literally takes me like 50 seconds to do the parkour now

[pale totem]

For anything.

[untold stratus]

also im really against removing the mechanic if that’s what youre getting at here (correct me if i’m wrong). The concept is really good so it would be a shame to remove it

[pale totem]

Yeah, that's the thing I'm struggling with.

[merry cliff]

yea but look at this particle animation for blocks this other guy above made
could go hard there or somewhere else

[naive zodiac]

could do like a small particle at the center of the parkour chunks or smth? idk you guys are the ones who make the good ideas lul

[pale totem]

It appears to be an accessibility issue, but revealing the platforms ruins the gimmick.

[meager lark]

I'm personally a huge fan of the concept. I haven't seen anything like it before, and it really made eo iconic with how unique it is

[shut quiver]

Tbf it seems to be the final section from the looks of it now?

[merry cliff]

4th level is certainly the most goofy one

[shut quiver]

Like thats what people said to me, last section was where they got stuck most

[merry cliff]

i dont see why it was added anyway, it was so good before

[shut quiver]

I think it's to get you around the room completely

[merry cliff]

like why was the parkour changed at all xd

[shut quiver]

I think people struggle with 1-3 but can do it eventually

[pale totem]

It was there to begin with and then removed because people were making the exact complaints you're dismissing.

[shut quiver]

but then 4 just kinda makes it slightly hellish

[twilit shore]

4th was unneeded and it being re-added in 2.0 was dumb

[pale totem]

Then I added the 4th level back and nerfed it.

[merry cliff]

just bring back pre changes eo parkour

[twilit shore]

Bring back 1.20 EO parkour, we had complaints but it wasn’t nearly as bad as now

[merry cliff]

and add this whatever 10 min cd skip blegar mentioned

[untold stratus]

So literally just a few changes to the 4th one will fix the problem??

[merry cliff]

select + cut

[shut quiver]

won't fix it but defintely reduce it.

[twilit shore]

Yea, the whole parkour is just flawed from the ground up

[naive zodiac]

just like lr camps-

[untold stratus]

too short then imo

[meager lark]

these are two people who doesn't struggle with the parkour

[merry cliff]

then make the levels a lil longer, but keep the neat long platforms for high ws people

[pale totem]

I don't struggle with it whatsoever. I'm trying to see from the player's perspectives.

[shut quiver]

it takes me 3-5 attempts depending how i feel at that point.

I don't struggle but i can feel for the people who do

[twilit shore]

Honestly I disagree, the 3 rooms instead of 4 was a good length, especially for people who were struggling with the parkour.

[pale totem]

All those EO parkour showcases I link were done in one take.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OesdJaBtVT4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=339KzpbGaIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt95D6V1SRk

[twilit shore]

Now the room is like “oh great I completed these 3 hellish rooms! There’s more?”

[warped arch]

people who cant visualize things really struggle doing the parkour

[pale totem]

I barely ever fail. So that's why I'm trying to take these statements seriously

[meager lark]

this is the point of the thread guys please

[merry cliff]

i dont visualize anything at all when i play it is what i dont understand in that problem

[meager lark]

we can talk about how stupid it is that there's a fourth section later

[shut quiver]

But yeah that 4th section seems to be the worst of that parkour for most people who struggle.

[twilit shore]

It adds unneeded length lmao

[untold stratus]

what is this condition called exactly and how much of the population suffers from it

[meager lark]

honestly, the fact that there's always complaints about eo parkour is a symptom to a bigger problem that needs to be addressed

[twilit shore]

This is a dungeon with multiple other decently challenging rooms and a hard boss, the parkour shouldn’t be long and super challenging

[pale totem]

Okay, a CT member suggested an idea that I like for aiding people, and we'll give that a shot. Can't say for sure if it'll be out by next patch, but it's something, and I'm gonna leave it there 'til it comes out.

[shut quiver]

"3% of people can't create a mental picture in their heads—this test will tell you if you're one of them. Most people can visualize a loved one's face or the best meal they've ever had, but there are others whose minds go blank when they attempt to do the same."

[merry cliff]

removing the 4th section?

[shut quiver]

idk why i copied all of it but yeah 3%

[warped arch]

its unconscious

[untold stratus]

this isnt really depth perception related though

[twilit shore]

What is with you guys and wanting to keep the 4th section, legit it is like half the issue with the parklur

[meager lark]

please don't tell me you're about to invalidate some people's experiences bc they're a minority

[untold stratus]

huh?

[shut quiver]

no but that's what it is aphantasia

[naive zodiac]

thats literally all #🌎wynncraft is aobut

[shut quiver]

3% of people have it

[merry cliff]

but i dont undrstand how they can do it 3d when seeing it but not 2d as when playing a whole different game

[pale totem]

Yeah. If it remains to be an issue I don't think we should ignore it. Even a smallish percentage of people should be able to play, so having accessibility is important.

[pale totem]

Saying "yeha but how many people have that condition" is no good

[merry cliff]

accessibility to not play the 4th level

[warped arch]

what do you mean?

[merry cliff]

i dont play the parkour as 3d, i play it as 2d

[warped arch]

same thing applies

[shut quiver]

basically some people need to see the platform they're jumping to

[shut quiver]

like see it in front of them.

[merry cliff]

but i dont see how they could do it in 3d but would fail the 2d parkour

like think of playing a game on gameboy or some shit where u play a top-down platformer
would they struggle there as well, but not in 3d?

[warped arch]

no bc they clearly see where they need to land

[shut quiver]

Probably? But could also be they can still see where they're jumping itself.

[merry cliff]

same for.. that parkour tho

[shut quiver]

the best way to put it is they need to see the platform itself, the indicator is kinda like an arrow saying "it's in this direction" Doesn't help them enough and they're still gonna struggle because they have to look where they're jumping

[naive zodiac]

you realize things are more than half a block away right

[warped arch]

the seeable thing is on the floor and the platform is invis + the whole thing is still 3rd for our brains

[untold stratus]

How are you gonna make the game accessible to blind people? They’re also a minority.
I have pretty severe tourettes which can often fuck me over in boss battles but i can still understand that making the game easier just because i have this condition is ridiculous.

[merry cliff]

the crosshair perfectly translates your position when looking down, so its 2d is what i mean

[naive zodiac]

the brown concrete signalling the walls was a great addition btw selvut, very cool

[warped arch]

translates your position

[pale totem]

There's some things we can't account for and some things we can.

[shut quiver]

i'd say parkour is one of those things, if you know how.

[merry cliff]

so by that u dont need to think of the 3d character at all, u just play a top down 2d jump and run and it works
as if u werent even playing minecraft to begin with

[pale totem]

It's actually black concrete but yeah

[warped arch]

you see our brains still see height and depth changing when jumping

[foggy lily]

shrimply close ur eyes when u jump

[naive zodiac]

oh shoot-

[merry cliff]

u mean it being problematic during the jump like after u already made all the inputs u could?

[naive zodiac]

i cannot upload a video of me doing eo parkour smh discord

[pale totem]

Anyways, I'm gonna try that suggestion that was made, and (hopefully) whenever the next patch comes it'll be included. We'll see if that helps but for now I'm gonna consider that good and wash my hands of this. If it doesn't help then we'll come back to this topic, but right now I'm done.

[warped arch]

things shift when u move too

[naive zodiac]

what do you mean by next patch? next world rollout? 2.0.5 or whatever?

[meager lark]

ty selvut 🙏

[merry cliff]

no

literally 2d

[warped arch]

[rain robin]

next hotfix

[untold stratus]

ok thats fair i guess. I think adding a 15 minute timer is gonna be the best possible fix, unless the thing youre planning to do is something really creative that hasnt been brought up yet

[naive zodiac]

ah alright

[rain robin]

it might end up being in the one after

[naive zodiac]

fruma or whatever release 👀?

i dont feel like fruma they would actually be able to get out this year but like

[rain robin]

cant really predict when hotfixes will happen

[naive zodiac]

and for every one hotfix we get theres 10 more they dont tell us about

[rain robin]

we should add fruma in a hotfix

[naive zodiac]

so true

[foggy lily]

i mean adding a whole new section to the map is a pretty small update tbh it would fit perfectly in a hotfix

[dense compass]

no put furma in a shadow patch to see how soon we will realise

[twilit shore]

“Hey guys randomly one day I decided to go to the Fruma gate for the funnies and it was open and like I could walk in and do crap in Fruma???”

[frigid echo]

yea like parkour but tentacles appear on the platforms sometimes and if u get hit u get sent back

[cunning loom]

i absolutely HATE the stupid fucking parkour in Marauder's Dues

the stupid moving worm shit is so clunky

also ass in RoL IV. not as bad, but still unfun asf

[warped arch]

use mobility spells

[cunning loom]

duh

[foggy lily]

Marauders dues sucks

[merry ice]

PoNR parkour 💀

[soft fractal]

Makes it too easy imo

[wanton mulch]

It’s people who fundament can’t imagine 3d spaces within their mind. Depth perception becomes extremely fucked when trying to perceive space with that can’t be measured exactly. I’m not sure if there’s an actual condition for it but I definitely struggle pretty hard when trying to calculate distances if I can’t count the blocks directly

[cunning loom]

i have insanely good 3d imaging 🔥 imagine, if you will, a room with an apple inside id. now imagine a room with a grapefruit. cool

[warped arch]

same

[empty oyster]

oh yeah? mobius strip

[cunning loom]

uhhhh uhhhh

i imagine Klein Bottles for fun. Non-Euclidian shapes seem normal to me. Guess im just messed up in the head, heh

[warped arch]

klein bottles ok, but non-euclidian shapes being normal aint good

[plucky gyro]

Counter to hotfix 6

[merry cliff]

??xd

[warped arch]

PoNR parkour is confusing yet i beat it every time somehow, not even knowing how

[warm grove]

Only on wynn can a suggestion about adding an assist mode turn into a 1000+ message argument

[warped arch]

ya sure?

i cant disprove this myself

[merry cliff]

1st stage is u and soul build the parkour for each other by jumping
2nd stage is timing the jumps of the parkour that appear 2 2 1 from left to right to left
3rd stage is walking on the block snake
4th stage is build parkour with pressure plates and then do the parkour step by step with soul (1231 or some shit was the easiest solution)

[warped arch]

i remember what they are i just forget the exact solutions, after parkour others are easy

[outer fiber]

I feel like this is fine if you're there for long enough. Just don't tie it to falls, people may spam jump off to hit it

[twilit shore]

EO parkour speedrun strat: Jump into the abyss instead of doing the parkour

[foggy lily]

dies of fall damage

[rain robin]

the change is ingame now

i would like some feedback on it from anyone who has difficulty with the parkour

[stone osprey]

What change

[rain robin]

there's a red particle dot that follows you on the ground of the room to help indicate where you're stood for people with depth perception problems

[stone osprey]

Oh ok

[pale totem]

Crosshair Jr.

[meager lark]

yooooooo

[empty oyster]

speaking of changes, where are the patch notes? theres been a lot of changes today, and i kinda wanna see em

[rain robin]

idk

[azure crag]

attempting it rn
(I struggle quite a bit with the parkour)

[azure crag]

unfortunately, Selvut was pretty accurate in his assessment of this as "crosshair jr". like - it really only does what the crosshair can do already

I'm still struggling quite a bit and like
looking at my crosshair would have the same effect

[rain robin]

its still less of a pain since you dont have to directly look down

just play as if you're the particle effect

[azure crag]

is it even possible to complete the parkour without looking down

[azure crag]

yeah idk I don't really get how to do that

[stone osprey]

Not sure how people are struggling with it now that there’s a marker that literally serves as a mini player

Like, directly on the glowstone platform itself
You don’t need to visualize anything anymore

[azure crag]

The crosshair did this already. Now what's needed is to visualize yourself as the dot, and not being able to visualize things is what got me into this mess in the first place.
I'm really bad at spatial visualization, and even conjuring images into my mind is difficult (like, I don't "see the scenes" when I read books)

like
it's just how my brain works (or doesn't work, I suppose)

[stone osprey]

I was thinking because the crosshair doesn’t actually show the position of the player if they were on the same spot on the glowstone

If you rotate your camera while staying looking down you can see this offset

But for the red dot its position is essentially you in F5 mode looking down at the player from the camera

Might have to see footage of a player who is struggling at this though, this is a very interesting outcome

[azure crag]

This makes sense - but I don't play in f5 for pretty much this reason; having to imagine myself in a different place, even if I can see my avatar there, is still wildly difficult for me

[stone osprey]

Okay this is probably terrible advice but I’ve probably played enough Minecraft to be able to estimate how far I travel if I leap forward

Are you able to sort of jump a specific distance in front of you if you aren’t able to look at the screen while pressing your keys?

If you can’t I might have found the difference between those who struggle with this parkour and those who don’t

In which case it might actually be a relatively simple explanation that comes out of this

That or I’m dead wrong and other people who breeze through this parkour do it differently from me

[candid fern]

thats literally what your crosshair does already how does this help people

[candid fern]

youve been in this discord for smso long how did you not realise that changelogs dont exist on wynn

[empty oyster]

I suppose im clueless 🤷

[bold quarry]

It’s a video game, just pretend that youre a red dot that can jump over stuff

[shut quiver]

I feel like this doesn't exactly solve the issue. It solves the issue for people who can't keep their mouse still, which fair. But I don't think it's gonna work for everyone else.

[rain robin]

well if the issue isnt that then idk what the issue is

but something yall will have to come to terms with is that we won't just add a "youve struggled enough just finish the parkour already" free win mechanic

[shut quiver]

I mean could do an alternate combat encounter

[rain robin]

nah

[shut quiver]

I think the issue is literally the platforms themselves.

[rain robin]

there were a couple inaccurate barrier block placements on the parkour

which i fixed alongside this change

[shut quiver]

Actually looking what they're saying, this was my entire issue with the parkour in the first place. They can't see the platforms at all. Not even visualising where they are with the markers they're given.

[rain robin]

thats... the point

you can't see the platforms, use the indicators on the ground of the room

[shut quiver]

no i mean they can't even tell where to jump even with the markers.

[rain robin]

what

[shut quiver]

That's how it sounds, basically due to the lack of visualisation of actual platforms, (the markers do not work for them) They're basically having to jump blindly and hope it works

[rain robin]

how do the markers not work what

[shut quiver]

Basically need a literal platform to know where they're jumping, they can't do invisible platforms. Best way to put it. they're fine with normal parkour but any parkour that involves invisible blocks might become an issue.

[rain robin]

im so confused how would that be an issue

[shut quiver]

Basically they can't visualise the platforms where the markers are, the crosshair helped a bit but it didn't do much

[rain robin]

ok i dont mean to be rude in saying this but genuinely how do you have that issue

[shut quiver]

I don't xD I was saying they do

[rain robin]

just pretend youre the particle

[shut quiver]

they can't.

[rain robin]

how

[shut quiver]

They physically can't imagine they're the particle.

[rain robin]

how

[shut quiver]

"aphantasia" lack of mental imagery

[rain robin]

ok i have absolutely no idea how we could do anything about that im afraid

[shut quiver]

Yeah i think that's been the entire issue for some people though. The crosshair Jr fix does solve it for the people who struggle at holding a mouse still, or do need to look where they're jumping, Just might be problems still

[rain robin]

i feel like you.. don't need mental imagery for that though?

like.. its right there on screen. just play as the particle

idk i dont know what its like to have aphantasia

[shut quiver]

Eh i've seen some people attempt invisible parkour with markers on other maps and it's the lack of seeing a physical platform.

They needed to see an actual platform to jump to

[untold stratus]

what

i doubt this applies to “imagining yourself as the red particle”

[candid fern]

why would you need mental imagery the blocks are literally under you just look down and dont move your mouse if you have to

a dot thats literally in the same place as blocks on the bottom doesnt change anything about the parkour

[rain robin]

idk if aphantasia is the issue it might be something else

[shut quiver]

I'm going of what i got told by people in a old parkour server i used to play

[untold stratus]

you can look down and see where the particle is, meaning you have a visual of where youre standing

[shut quiver]

Isn't that just the crosshair though?

[rain robin]

tbf you could do this with the crosshair already

[untold stratus]

yes

[rain robin]

but using the crosshair was tedious

[untold stratus]

wait what

[candid fern]

thats the point

[untold stratus]

wdym crosshair

[shut quiver]

Like i feel like if the crosshair wasn't helping much if you kept it steady the dot's gonna do nothing different

[candid fern]

you already have a crosshair pointing down showing where you are adding a dot doesnt help

[untold stratus]

what is the crosshair what

[shut quiver]

...

[rain robin]

you dont need to look directly down anymore so its less of an annoyance

[untold stratus]

oh

the thing in the middle of the screen

[untold stratus]

yea

[shut quiver]

Always wondered why they changed the crosshair from vanilla. Kinda prefer the vanilla crosshair

[untold stratus]

im pretty sure this has absolutely nothing to do with aphantasia

[shut quiver]

But yeah Dot's not really gonna change much outside of people who struggled with keeping crosshair below them. Which slightly easier but will not surprise me if there's still some problems

[shut quiver]

Funnily enough someone just said this before "The crosshair did this already. Now what's needed is to visualize yourself as the dot, and not being able to visualize things is what got me into this mess in the first place."
Im not gonna say what they have/dont have but they even say it's visualising

So might not be aphantasia (Idk how brain works) But that was their issue.

[candid fern]

i dont try to visualize myself as the dot/crosshair and do it just fine

[rain robin]

just ignore that you are a player stood on invisible platforms and pretend you're playing as the red dot

[shut quiver]

pre dot i did visualise it because i found it helped immensely

dot's not gonna change anything for me so not gonna comment on how it is after.

[rain robin]

originally i wanted to have a player entity instead of a red dot that would mimic everything the player does but i decided to just use a particle since the player model would probably desync with the player

[bold quarry]

No one can see the platforms bruh

[rain robin]

also the particle is just easier

[shut quiver]

Please read the full message

[bold quarry]

Can you ping me in it

[shut quiver]

... you just replied to it

[bold quarry]

So why are you telling me to read the full message

[shut quiver]

Because you really didn't

[bold quarry]

An 8 word message

[shut quiver]

.... Did you just say that my message was 8 words?

[bold quarry]

Sorry it was 9 words sorry for misscounting! How old are you again? 🙂

[shut quiver]

I was talking about the 2 line message. The one you originally replied to. Do i have to explain everything?

[bold quarry]

Oh that one that I already read

"They cant see the platforms at all" what is this supposed to mean

Like if they cant see colour how is any fix ever gonna fix the game for them

[shut quiver]

No you didn't If you did you would of noticed I said and I quote "Not even visualising where they are with the markers they're given."

[bold quarry]

Theres no need to visualize anything

When you play as the dot

Now i might sound rude again but i promise theres a difference between lack of depth perception and lack of imagination

[shut quiver]

It does the same thing as the crosshair, anyone who already had that issue is still gonna have that issue.

[bold quarry]

The platforms have literal blocks under them to show where they are?

What do you mean they cant see them

[shut quiver]

basically they see the markers but they can't tell where the platform is even with those markers

[bold quarry]

The markers are the platform when playing as the crosshair

[shut quiver]

yeah but as someone just said before, the crosshair didn't help them much either

[bold quarry]

As in it being hard to see?

[shut quiver]

or it's just being invisible platforms, one or the other.

But yeah the dot basically fixes an issue for the people who can't keep their crosshair still.

[bold quarry]

That's just gibberish cause the invisible platforms are invisible for everyone

[shut quiver]

as in they need physical platforms to jump to

i.e they have to see the actual platform itself. Not just a marker

[bold quarry]

But why do they need that when they can just play the game at the red dot?

Why cant they play the parkour like everyone else?

[shut quiver]

From the looks of what they said before, same issue. They can't visualise themselves as the red dot.

[bold quarry]

So they basically cant play any third person perspective game

Or any topdown games

[shut quiver]

No idea, it's probably not too hard for top downs and all that. Platformers maybe.

[bold quarry]

But EO parkour is a topdown

[shut quiver]

tbf i was going with general topdowns. I.e rpg games and all that. Platformers though yeah i was including EO there

[candid fern]

do people glue their hand to the mouse???

holding it still isnt a problem you just have to not hold your mouse during the jump

[bold quarry]

Btw if anyone here genuinly have lack of depth perception and cant pass this parkour please let me know

[shut quiver]

it's more kinda like either shakey hands or they have to look where they jump

as someone who struggles at keeping the mouse under them so had to constantly readjust when jumping i can understand some people dont realise they need to readjust

[candid fern]

shakey hands doesnt mean they have to hold their mouse, and you dont need to look where you jump you can just shift to the ledge and sprint jump without any extra momentum

[shut quiver]

You do realise that's a you thing, not everyone can do that.

[candid fern]

how do you need to readjust when all you have to do is shift to the ledge and sprint jump

[shut quiver]

The dot will help the people who genuinely struggled at keeping the mouse under them.

[shut quiver]

I accidentally move my mouse up while jumping so i'm no longer looking straight down but not enough that it's easy to tell the difference

[candid fern]

people struggle at keeping the mouse under them because they cant find simple solutions such as not holding your mouse 🤯🤯🤯

[candid fern]

THEN DONT HOLD YOUR MOUSE

[shut quiver]

ah yes dont hold my mouse on a surface where the mouse is not on an even surface. What a great idea.

[candid fern]

what are you saying

[shut quiver]

... I let go of the mouse, it slides on it's own.

[candid fern]

if your mouse keeps sliding off the desk then turn it off or smth

[shut quiver]

.... it's a wired mouse.

[candid fern]

???

what does that have to do with anything

and how do you get a mouse to move on its own

is your house tilted???

[shut quiver]

Genuinely, is it hard to accept not everyone can keep their mouse straight down?
And unplugging a wired mouse when you also have to turn around would get very annoying very quickly

[candid fern]

then play the parkour untill you get good at it

🤯 people when they have to spend more than 15 minutes in an mmo

[shut quiver]

... i love how your complaining about the fact some people need a dot as a replacement for the crosshair.

🤯 people when they realise that there are outside issues that make a certain part harder.

[candid fern]

the outsider issue being that your house is tilted and your mouse slides on its own?

[shut quiver]

Or it's just on an uneven surface?

[candid fern]

you know there are easy ways to fix a desk being tilted to one side

[shut quiver]

Anyway ignoring everything, the dot works fine as a replacement for the crosshair if people had issues there, I can already tell there's still gonna be a fair amount of complaints still but the dot defintely fixes the crosshair problem.

[bold quarry]

You can literally just let go off your mouse bruh

[shut quiver]

Seeing as how i've met people who when letting go of the mouse still makes it move quite a lot, not always an option

[bold quarry]

Ok but thats a technical issue that they have brought on themselves and not some sort of medical condition

[shut quiver]

no because they would knock it

like they'd let go and it'd still go to the side from them moving it as they did.

[bold quarry]

??????????

So they cant stop hold the mouse?

[shut quiver]

they can, just it moves a bit when they do cause they knock it and move it in the process.

Why are you both having issues with people relying on the dot over the crosshair.

[bold quarry]

Im not complaining on the dot

Im complaining that there's 300 special conditions out there and you want to adapt the parkour for everyone

[shut quiver]

czad is.

[bold quarry]

Huh? No he isnt

[empty stream]

Good fucking lord

[bold quarry]

Hes also questioning that theres people playing the game where they will knock away their mouse if they let go of it

[shut quiver]

yeah i give up. I'm not dealing with the fact that this is a second time you missed an entire message

[bold quarry]

Sorry im not educated in being a cringe keyboard warrior that refuses to have a normal conversation

Like you can just start make sense instead of being a weirdo and stop saying "you missed the message!" when the issue is that we cant understand what youre saying

Sorry but saying people knocks their mouse when they letting go of it is just nonsense that isnt relevant anywhere ever

[meager lark]

the fact that y'all keep saying that the problem is solved regardless that people who are actually struggling with the parkour says otherwise is very willfully ignorant

these changes aren't for you, listen to the people who this thread is for

instead of just seeing your perspective as the truth and the universal experience when it fucking isn't

the honesty that could've came with y'all saying "we don't care" is so much better than whatever this conversation is

unbelievable

[twilit shore]

I thought most people here agreed it was crosshair 2 : Now in Red and therefore not much of an improvement

[warped arch]

best they could do rn i guess

[meager lark]

yeahhh there were just some... particularly bad statements made

[meager lark]

they're really careful not to touch the parkour's concept, but the concept is the problem. wanting to keep something "innovative" regardless of how unaccessible it can be is a really weird stance to take

[warped arch]

for us its weird how its hard, there is really no solution i see now that would satisfy both sides

ct wants to keep the concept, some players dont care, some want changes

[meager lark]

ok let me rephrase the statement: keeping a key feature just because "it's cool" regardless of how unaccessible it can be is an ableist mindset

it's also bad practice for content creating in general to keep something you personally think is cool, but doesn't work, is impractical, or is just straight up bad for the game

ultimately, this comes down to the values of the creators. if they prefer cool points over accessibility, then sure, have fun or something

[warped arch]

the problem here is that a lot of people also think that parkour is cool, though i wont cheer for any side since its starting to look like political debates at this point

[shut quiver]

i think as well it'd make sense if the game was based around the concept to keep it as is, like that's the point of the game. But parkour is so secondary in wynn, it's kinda not a good idea to keep it like that.

[rain robin]

i'm not saying the problem is solved, i'm saying that if this solution doesnt help with whatever problem there is then i have no clue what the actual problem is or what could be done about it

[outer fiber]

I still think it should just be made dramatically easier after a good while

If someone really can't clear it after 5 mins just call it a day and make it easy

If people want to afk for 5 mins to make the parkour easier who cares

[rain robin]

you and i both know that isnt what selvut wants to do

[outer fiber]

And

[shut quiver]

I agree with nagisa, i'd say longer than 5 minutes but it's getting ridiculous how long it takes for some people to do the parkour, and since EO's probably gonna be one of the few if not only mandatory dungeon to access later content, the parkour shouldn't be a barrier. Sure if they struggle with the fight that's just them needing better gear. But parkour really shouldn't be this much of an issue in a game where the hardest parkour before this is probably RoL 3

[pale totem]

...when I said crosshair jr I meant it not as an insult

[naive zodiac]

dont you still have to look down to see the red dot tho?

and like the parkour

[naive zodiac]

this is the wildest thing ive seen in this thread

[empty stream]

is it though

[twilit shore]

This entire thread is a trip

The parkour isn’t even that interesting, I honestly vote to either remove it entirely or rework it into some other more interesting parkour that doesn’t consistently cause a portion of the playerbase to be stuck in one room for 20 mins

[empty oyster]

I just think the eldritch outlook is doing really well at its job keeping people out of PtD

[twilit shore]

I don’t think that was it’s job though…..

Gameplay wise that is

Also if the boss is doing a worse job of keeping people out than the parkour then you should see that something is off

The Eye is pretty easy nowadays compared to 1.19

[shut quiver]

yeah the eye just needs a buff.

It used to be fun when it was hard. Now it's more "do i have to kill you again?"

Also why do people use that as their argument, i doubt parkour's gonna be that hard when dern comes in

[meager lark]

we didn't take it as an insult, we took it as criticism

and you were right, it is just like your crosshair

[meager lark]

exactlyyyy. besides, eo was advertised to have relatively short rooms, and the boss fight being central to the dungeon. the fact that the two complaints about eo is 1) the parkour being too hard, and 2) the eye being too easy, means that this vision of "boss fight is the main experience" isn't being met anymore

[pale totem]

eeeexcept it felt to me when testing as if it made a very significant difference and aides my comprehension of the platform spacing even more than before, instead of just being. there.

That is

Why I approved of the change

[meager lark]

well the change isn't really for you, right? whether it felt useful to you or not isn't really relevant

[shut quiver]

Yeah this is 1 of those times i think that needed more testing with how 50/50 that parkour is.

[pale totem]

We had like the ENTIRE CT test it on first run

[meager lark]

people who are struggling with the parkour said that the red dot is pretty much useless. their feedback is what matters

[pale totem]

As in, INITIAL VERSION

[shut quiver]

I will point out i did speak to one person who complained, she had minor issues with the entire game but they were manageable, EO parkour? yeah not so much

[meager lark]

any of them struggling with visualization?

depth perception?

[pale totem]

Moe, back when he was around, afaik

[meager lark]

wellll, did they try out the parkour after the change?

[shut quiver]

i can confirm it is a legitimate issue now. How it got described to me was they have to a completely blind leap

[pale totem]

They left the team a while ago

[meager lark]

ok, so none of the playtesters actually had issues with the parkour to begin with

[pale totem]

But they reported no issue with a much tougher parkour and no guide like Crosshair Jr

[shut quiver]

so they didn't have issues before?

[meager lark]

this isn't about how tough the parkour is, it's about the concept of the parkour itself

[pale totem]

No more than any other parkour they tried

[meager lark]

what did they think of the eo parkour?

[pale totem]

They didn't have difficulty with the concept.

[meager lark]

good for them. the issue is still around, though

[shut quiver]

Meaning the change that wasn't even for them they had to test how effective it was?

[pale totem]

Moe's never seen crosshair jr

He left the team. Please read the things I am saying

I don't mean to be rude but I felt I was fairly clear from the start. Moe had difficulty with parkour and had bad eyes, but he didn't struggle with the concept when the parkour was much harder due to platforms being a much greater distance from the ground, and therefore, their markers.

[meager lark]

is moe the only person with depth perception issues?

[pale totem]

That i knew of. If anyone else om the team had issues of that nature they never spoke up about it

[shut quiver]

i will also point out i literally spoke to someone yesterday who understood how the markers worked but was basically doing blind jumps because they still couldn't tell where the platforms were.

[meager lark]

how about the people outside of the team?

is this game for the team? or for the players?

[pale totem]

And that's shocking to me. I approved of this cause I thought this would help a lot

[meager lark]

it wasn't, unfortunately

[pale totem]

...my guy, I am talking about the initial QA fucking testing. Of fucking course the outcome was different, saying that all snidely is not going to help.

[shut quiver]

yeah no someone mentioned crosshair jr didn't work for them because the crosshair was never the issue.

i think it was further up they mentioned it?

"unfortunately, Selvut was pretty accurate in his assessment of this as "crosshair jr". like - it really only does what the crosshair can do already
I'm still struggling quite a bit and like
looking at my crosshair would have the same effect" found it.

[meager lark]

sorry, I didn't mean that to sound snidely

I'm just saying that sometimes, things we implement don't work as we hoped they would

[pale totem]

If someone on the team struggled with the concept that you were saying was a primary issue to fucking begin with, of course I would assume it to not be an issue for them when that is my only point of view to begin with. Saying "oh but the game isn't made for the TEAM, it's made for the PLAYERS" seriously, what the hell is that supposed to help with? Of fucking course we're making it for the players but when we are MAKING IT, of course the TEAM is the only viewpoint we have!

Players don't get included in concept drawings! Players don't get included in internal plans! Half our job is to try and visualize what players want and create content that we think will be engaging and accessible, at least somewhat.

This isn't Wynnipedia, the free Minecraft MMORPG that anyone can edit.

[meager lark]

You think I don't understand that?? Of course y'all can't just let the players add whatever the heck they want to the game with what they deem is acceptable or not. What I'm saying is, listen to fucking feedback. People are saying that the change didn't work, suck it the fuck up

[pale totem]

If it didn't work it didn't work, but of course we had no way of knowing it wouldn't until release. Of course we had fucking faith in the thing we were doing!! Of course we were approaching it from a viewpoint of "how can we keep this cool concept while still making it accessible?" Why would we release something if we didn't think it would help??

[meager lark]

I don't expect you to read minds. I expect you to listen when we actually speak out

and we are speaking out right now

the change was bad. so what? it's not the end of the world to receive criticism

now you have an idea of what doesn't work. amazing! keep at it then

[pale totem]

Then don't make comments like that expecting us to read minds. Take into account the context of my statements and where the conversation is. I just saw red reading that. It was probably one of the least helpful comments that could have been made. Clearly we get that this didnt help as much as we wanted, or in some cases(the important cases) at all, but that kind of statement is just the worst. "Oh, yeah, I bet your team did do a lot of testing before you released, but did anyone outside the team test it before release?" It feels like some ill-conceived "gotcha" as if that just settles everything and we're idiots for not considering such a thing.

That might not have been what you meant when you said that, but that's how it reads- it feels thoughtless and superior.

If this didn't work, we'll try something else.

[meager lark]

I see where you're coming from. But understand that we never once heard from you explicitly that you think the change didn't work. All we heard from you so far are justifications and defensive statements that isn't centric on the results of the change, but on how much effort y'all put in the implementation. Don't get me wrong, the effort is appreciated, but don't make this about you.

[meager lark]

I'll pay attention to my tone next time. I admit that I'm pretty heated right now

[pale totem]

I genuinely don't understand how I'm making this about me. I've barely made any statements about Crosshair Jr other than explaining the name wasn't a jab towards it, and how it felt helpful so i approved it. Everything I said above was about a previous more difficult state of it which was rigorously tested(responding to blegar saying the parkour needed a lot more testing vefore release) and about the having had a team member with the issues people are citing as struggling with having tested it with no issues when it was objectively worse for the people whose disabilities make them struggle with it, when you asked if anyone with said disabilities had tested it at some point.

This wasn't a difficult change- Sam came up with it and made it in the space of less than a day. I'm not sure how what I said implied that adding Crosshair Jr was so strenuous and how dare you be so ungrateful or anything like that.

[meager lark]

We never said that y'all accuse us of being ungrateful.

[pale totem]

Okay that bit wasn't meant to be taken as a literal statement.

[meager lark]

Yeah at this point I'm just being pedantic

But yes, I'm glad we're on the same page now and we came to understand each other better.

All I ask of you now is please don't get too attached to a concept. There are plenty other cool stuff out there that can take eo parkour's place

[pale totem]

I'll refer back to something I said earlier then.

...never mind, I only THOUGHT I said this, so I'll just say it instead- Making dungeon rooms and concepts takes time. It's far easier to patch up what exists than it is to add something new, and our focus is currently in Fruma. Reworking the room is something to avoid not just cause we think the concept is neat, but also because it takes time.

[meager lark]

ok yeah that's completely understandable

[pale totem]

Having to say "yeah this didn't work, let's start from scratch" is a big time investment, and while I'll be sad to see it go if we have to remove this parkour concept I'm more than willing to let go if we have to. We just have to consider time budgeting- and something else too

Not much solace for the now, but a lot of people keep saying "how will people get to dern portal if they can't beat the parkour?"

We haven't even released Fruma yet.

We've got oodles of time to redo EO at some point in the future, as people have early-and-often complained about the mirror room AND the maelstrom bridge as well. If those rooms can't get small patches to fix them, we may be looking at a full rework, and if such a thing happens...how far away do you think Dern is, out from now? Certainly more than enough time to polish up these rooms, if that really becomes necessary to replace them.

[meager lark]

Yeah, players are starting to understand how much time it needs to make content, especially right now with the development of Fruma. It's an assurance that y'all recognize the problem now and are willing to look for solutions in the future.

Thank you, man! This was quite the conversation, but constructive nonetheless

[cunning loom]

but it’s kinda a minority

[meager lark]

jesus christ

ok bye

[cunning loom]

?

i’m tryna keep things neutral bruv but i think over the course of the thread you’ve lost your cool

gotta be able to engage in arguments without shutting down (when the arguments aren’t like… political, and relating to rights and that sort of thing)

[pale totem]

Thing is this change is meant to help that minority without severely changing the experience for those who don't need accommodation

So saying "it's just a minority" is the opposite of helpful

ya dig?

[cunning loom]

no i didn’t really get that my bad

i was reading the part about it being tested on the devs/playtesters end being meaningless

presumably because it’s too few players?

and how that reasoning didn’t make sense to me if this discussion is based on trying to help out a small group of players as well

[meager lark]

no, it's because none of the playtesters had issues with the parkour to begin with. it's like testing out a wheelchair by asking people who don't need it

[meager lark]

also this is doesn't make sense at all. they're both a small group of players, sure, but they're not the same group

[cunning loom]

yes, neutral 👍

[meager lark]

nice choice of word

[cunning loom]

at the end of the day i don’t mind if there’s assistance or not

[meager lark]

y'see, it's really hard to respond to really bad arguments like that

[cunning loom]

oooookay

[meager lark]

which is why I felt like I had to leave a while ago

[cunning loom]

okay

[meager lark]

just, backread or smth

[cunning loom]

ok, will do

[empty oyster]

🍿

saving this thread before it inevitably gets locked

[rain robin]

had a few people who struggle with the parkour tell me otherwise, so i think it has definitely helped some but not all

[rain robin]

it took like 20 minutes lol, and thats slow for how simple the script for it is

[stone osprey]

Wow what happened to this thread

Warzone moment

[stone osprey]

Well, we shouldn't lock it just yet
The problem still persists so we still need a dedicated place for discussion

[bold quarry]

What problem?

[shut quiver]

tbf with the mirror room i think the main issue is just how slow it is, the concept is good but it does take an obnoxious amount of time.
Even just giving mobs on both sides tokens would make that so much better.
Maelstorm bridge I think the biggest issue is of how little you are told, Either most people skip it or run through not realising that's the worst thing they can do, and not realising the cracks are there, or if they do, not realising what they mean.

[shut quiver]

Did expect this though, defintely would help the people who had issues with keeping the crosshair below them though, so always a good thing if at least some people are helped, but yeah there's an issue still.

[twilit shore]

The parkour, it's a terrible roadblock for some people who just want to fight the boss

It's more of a roadblock than the actual boss lmao

EO is a gauntlet of crap, it shouldn't take 20 minutes in one room just to then possibly get insta gimped by the boss which is supposed to be hard

[shut quiver]

As I said unless dern has the hardest possible parkour there's 0 reason for it to be that much of an issue.

[twilit shore]

It's so different from all the other parkour in the game, with some sections having optional skips iirc

[shut quiver]

The only questionably difficult vanilla parkour (which isn't too bad) is RoL 3.

Like that's the only parkour I could say is probably the most difficult, and it's not too hard.

[twilit shore]

And you also don't have to repeat it if you keep dying a bunch to something later on

The EO parkour is supposed to be repeated over and over again, whether it be because you're stuck on the Eye boss, you're grinding out currency for the dungeon items, or you simply like the dungeon enough, you are going to repeat it

1 room should not take up a majority of the entire dungeon completion time for some

[shut quiver]

Yeah the boss fight should be the longest room if possible (but in a fun way) Parkour rn has that and it's just because some people struggle too much with it

[ocean verge]

Ngl, if you cannot look down, move about 1 block back from the edge of the platform, look in the general direction of the next, hold ctrl w for about half a second press space, i am not sure what could be done to help you.

The entire step right before jumping has 0% failure rate if you even just sneak.

No need to consider most jumps, they are, at worst, 3 blocks long and so do not have precise timing, you do not need to imagine anything.

Sure, not fast, but safe and requires very little spatial judgement.

[shut quiver]

Until you realise a lot of people were struggling so there's clearly a problem.

And I even spoke to someone who genuinely with the markers was doing blind leaps because they couldn't tell where the platforms were even though they knew what the markers did.
In a game where the game does parkour as a secondary thing, i don't expect people to be overly good at parkour or in some cases decent, but you have to admit.
Every other semi difficult parkour has a skip option and even those parkours are at worst a semi easy/normal difficulty parkour with very few complaints ever used on them.

[ocean verge]

I just do not comprehend how you cannot implement the strategy i said

This feels like justifying removing all mobs with high water defense because some people can't kill them with their water weapon

Like sure, sucks that it's harder for you. Truly that's not great

But there are options of how you can make it doable.

[shut quiver]

Holy that single line is one of the most ignorant things i've ever seen.
People are having legitimate issues with the parkour. This isn't just a "get good at parkour" issue. People just have outside issues that make it much more difficult than it needs to be.

Water defence mobs just get better gear, it's that simple, if your bad at parkour you can improve, but if you have a legitimate issue that makes certain aspects of parkour harder that's gonna be VERY hard to improve on, possible but it's still gonna be difficult compared to people who dont have those issues.

[ocean verge]

Did I say get good at parkour?? I said try reducing the task you know you can mechanically do

[shut quiver]

No but you are comparing a legitimate issue to someone just not playing well.

[empty oyster]

no, you guys are a minority. Outside of this thread, ive seen no one complain about the parkour

[shut quiver]

I've seen a fair amount of complaints when i asked in shouts.

[ocean verge]

Okay the analogy was not perfect. The point stands there are ways

[empty oyster]

like like maybe 9-10 out of the 1000 people online

[shut quiver]

also the people who take 40+ minutes to do the parkour.

[ocean verge]

To do the parkour that do not rely on any advanced perception and have no risk of failure

Takes longer than if you have the perception to do it freestyle, true!

If this is not feasible for you to do

I don't know how it could be helped

[shut quiver]

I can do it but i've seen people who can't and i'd rather not have their progression stopped by something that they can't exactly help

[ocean verge]

This feels like ignoring the point I just made by restating what you have previously said

[shut quiver]

yes because that strategy doesn't work for everyone

It works for me and others. But it didn't work for some of them as they still couldn't tell where to jump.

[ocean verge]

Okay this is absurd. If you can play wynn to eo you can look down and align the top dot of your crosshair to point toward the next marker

[shut quiver]

Tell me when that ever comes up before EO?

[ocean verge]

Every parkour that requires you to not hop in a straight line requires you to change your yaw

[shut quiver]

No it doens't Because you have a platform in front of you that you can see

[ocean verge]

You are still turning your yaw so you are pointing at the platform

[shut quiver]

You do also realise a good majority of the parkour's are skippable right with any class?

[ocean verge]

Even then. Okay even simpler.

Algorithm:
Stand perfectly still.
Point your cursor at the next marker. (If you can aim spells, you can do this)
Sneak. Forward until you are at block edge.
Go backward a little bit.
Unsneak, sprint, space.

[shut quiver]

How much you want to bet this only works for people who weren't having outside issues.
Seriously, the amount of times people have struggled with the parkour you're treating it as like they've not attempted that.

[ocean verge]

I don't mean to be demeaning. Not having the abilities to do something is real, but I feel like limiting every aspect of wynn by the absolute bottom of ability threshold in any area is so limiting that designing becomes unfeasible

[shut quiver]

Why not just let the parkours have the optional skip button though? It's not as if you struggling with parkour is going to make the rest of the game any harder.

Or give a slight assistance for those people who are struggling but is completely optional

[ocean verge]

I don't get it. I don't get how this can fail and saying "well it fails" is unhelpful. I am not sure what could be done to solve it if the issue is apparently "demanding the ability to turn to face a block and do a short sequence of three inputs" is top much.

[shut quiver]

Depth perception issues, the in-ability to imagine a invisible platform.
What i got told by a couple people is they had minor issues with previous parkours but were manageable but then EO basically exacerbated those minor issues in to a painful struggle.

[ocean verge]

I suppose this is just a case of "it'd be weird to have a full skip on this one lag independant parkour" and it doesn't phase almost everyone. I have no objections to seeing it added but it just is not necessary

[shut quiver]

i have suggested just do a combat section to skip the parkour

[ocean verge]

That's even more work for an issue related to very few people

[shut quiver]

it was more of a "if a solution can't be found" thing

not a good solution but just something.

since I don't think there's gonna be ever a way to skip it even if you struggle for 15 minutes per parkour.

[ocean verge]

If this is the hill eo parkour dies on, i don't know what wynn is supposed to make parkour wise ever again

[untold stratus]

This^. My guess is that people are just impatient and try to rush through, cause there’s no way someone would not be able to follow these simple steps if they take it slow

[shut quiver]

Seeing as how RoL 3 does fine. I'd say there's still plenty of options

Saying it now but the entire issue seems to be the platforms themselves seeing as how the artemis thing actually helps people with showing the invisible platforms.

[foggy lily]

Now please add a way to turn this off if there isn’t one already (I didn’t read everything)

[wanton mulch]

The other extreme flaw with eo parkour are the stupid invis walls. I think any player who struggles with it would 100% prefer to just tp/charge spam your way through but the stupid ass invis walls in between the sections ruins it like CIB parkour. I will continue to say it as LOUD as possible INVISIBLE WALLS ARE FUCKING TERRIBLE DESIGN ALMOST ANYWHERE THEY ARE USED

[foggy lily]

the point of the walls is to make the parkour not skippable lol removing the walls is almost like removing the parkour

[wanton mulch]

Shaman laughing at you with basically a build in check point

[foggy lily]

idk what that means

[shut quiver]

shaman can use blood connection to tp to their totem

[wanton mulch]

^

[foggy lily]

doesnt it not help much bc the totem just falls off usually

[wanton mulch]

Throw it again

[foggy lily]

by the time u manage to get it to not fall off and use blood connection u probably coulda just done the parkour normally

also y would u run eo with shaman lol

[wanton mulch]

This is for people who struggle and can’t. Again it took me 45 min on my own it was much better with a check point system

[shut quiver]

nah you could just throw it up and it'll land on you

[foggy lily]

wdym with a checkpoint system? do u fall off after u get to the platform with the tp?

[foggy lily]

ah i see what u mean

[shut quiver]

he's saying he'd throw a totem on to the platform he's on then if he falls he just tps to it instantly

[wanton mulch]

I’m half way through the parkour and think I will fail a jump. I leave totem where I was if I fall tp back to totem ie check point

[foggy lily]

wouldnt blood connection launch u off

[wanton mulch]

No looked down when doing

[shut quiver]

idk i just assumed you tp to the totem

[wanton mulch]

You can control where to sends you by looking in certain directions

[foggy lily]

does it take u 45 mins every time or just the first time

[wanton mulch]

I haven’t done eo in months but it takes me 20+ min avg almost every time

[foggy lily]

how much eo do u do? from my experience it takes a lot of runs to get good at the parkour

it took me like 25-30 mins the first few times i did it

[wanton mulch]

Done it maybe 6-10 times to unlock for classes and get “the nothing” wand

[foggy lily]

yeah see thats the problem lol, it takes me like 2 mins to do it bc ive done eo maybe like 100 times?

[wanton mulch]

Ya I don’t think the avg player has that type of experience with invis parkour

I very much dislike the concept of it anyways I think it’s a shitty and stupid gymik

[foggy lily]

yeah but u only need to do it once per class really so like, i understand if theres a accessiblity issue, but for normal players the parkour taking a while is fine imo

so far it is the highest lvl dungeon in the game and having a challenging non combat part is pretty rare in wynncraft

[wanton mulch]

Disagree, the parkour took me longer than the rest of the dungeon combines

[foggy lily]

same and i dont think thats an issue

[wanton mulch]

I do, its a small sections of the dungeon why does it have this extreme skill curve

It’s dumb af to me. When people think the parkour is harder than the boss that should say something

It’s not even hard parkour it’s just awful for people who struggle with depth perception

[foggy lily]

well the boss is another problem lol its kinda weak asf now after 2.0

[wanton mulch]

Even before 2.0

The parkour has always been harder than the boss fight

[foggy lily]

thats a different issue, accessibility is not the same as "make the parkour easier bc i dont wanna spend time on it"

[foggy lily]

*especially after 2.0

[wanton mulch]

It’s hard “cause I can’t fucking see” not because I don’t understand how to jump +2 blocks

Having visual accessibility be the “skill issue” it’s just garbage game design

[foggy lily]

yeah but for the average player without depth perception problems, the parkour is doable and learnable which is fine

its a different conversation for people with issues with depth perception

im not saying that the parkour should be the exact same no matter if the player is disabled or not i just think that the discussion should be separated because it is fundamentally different

[wanton mulch]

I’m saying the parkour sucks and should be removed it’s a garbage gymik that only feels worse cause it’s one of the rare parkours in the game that extremely punished trying to use movement spells

With so many players be so vocal about how much they think it’s sucks it feels really stupid to me for CT to continue to try to defend it being in the game

[foggy lily]

punishing movement spells isnt a problem with parkours because the point of the parkour existing is not for u to skip it with movement spells

[wanton mulch]

Disagree

[foggy lily]

trol

[wanton mulch]

Why the fuck give me a movement spell if I can’t use it during a “movement puzzle”

[foggy lily]

maybe the movement spell is to help u move around the map and not skip a parkour that was designed for u to do it?

[bold quarry]

Only thing that makes you a disgusting person is this ”many people have this issue!” point that you keep bringing up

[wanton mulch]

I will yap for way to long, I’m just gonna say I disagree

[shut quiver]

Imagine thinking that makes someone a disgusting person, gotta be honest, the fact your entire behaviour is the exact opposite of your about me says a lot xD

[foggy lily]

why is this so personal lolol

[shut quiver]

I have no idea

[bold quarry]

First of all you dont get satire second of all the way you make up information to convince people is literally disgusting behavior

It’s not personal i dont know who this squeaker is

[wanton mulch]

Ya fr 🤮

[foggy lily]

hate the arguement not the person lol

[wanton mulch]

(Im joking)

[bold quarry]

I disagree

[foggy lily]

insane

[bold quarry]

Unless hes drunk, high, or has a gun pointed to his head, he is actively choosing to act the way he acts

[shut quiver]

That's not satire though? Like there's 0 indication of that.
And People have been complaining since day 1. Only when Stage 4 got added did it get worse

[bold quarry]

Or some obv other condition which i dont think is the case

[shut quiver]

Xae genuinely, if you have nothing constructive to add stop talking.

[bold quarry]

People as in ”people” or as ”many people”?

You literally spread lies

[shut quiver]

People have been though? Literally Forums, i asked in shouts people had issues with it.
There is 0 reason to be this outright hostile over this.

[foggy lily]

i honestly dont see a problem with what blegar said, if there are a lot of people who struggle even with that method, then there is a problem

whats wrong with that

[bold quarry]

many people?

10 shitters struggling with a parkour is not many people

[foggy lily]

i think u have the same issue buuns has just in a different way lol

u need to acknowledge that theres 2 groups of people who are complaining about the parkour

1. people who are skill issueing and coping
2. people with a disability who are physically incapable of doing the parkour without help
   i agree with u for people who are just skill issueing but there should be something done for people with a disability

[shut quiver]

Anyway ignoring the hostility. EO parkour I think to help people with the main issue would be just having an assistance thing after like 10 minutes per checkpoint/level whatever it's called.
And tbf with the skill issuing i think that at this point has either gone down the path of completely given up on the parkour or they got better.

[bold quarry]

You seem to be a reasonable person and not emotional like the other guy. So with the second group of people in mind, what lengths would you go to help those people while also thinking how it affects the game for those not struggling?

[shut quiver]

Or just have tools (arguably cheats but that's an entirely different argument)To get around the difficulty's they have.

[foggy lily]

i do not have the disability and i dont know anyone who has it so idk

[bold quarry]

And more important, is it worth nerfing a parkour because 0.1% of the playerbase are struggling?

[shut quiver]

No one outside a couple people have ever said nerf the parkour. And they just want it removed.

[bold quarry]

Nerfing, removing, whatever

[shut quiver]

Again no one has said that Xae

[bold quarry]

Im was making myself more clear…

[shut quiver]

Anything people wanted changed would not affect the majority of players.

[bold quarry]

Thats not true

[shut quiver]

Heck even my proposed skips were literally just "15 minutes wait time per level"

[bold quarry]

Struggling with EO parkor for 5 minutes doesnt mean that youre disabled

[foggy lily]

honestly this is stupid, people who are disabled shouldnt have to wait a full hour to get past the parkour

[shut quiver]

i threw out a random number so no one would bandwagon me

[foggy lily]

ah

[shut quiver]

the actual amount of time would probably be better at 10 minutes

[bold quarry]

Again, that would also help those who arent disabled

[shut quiver]

10 minutes per level?

I feel like anyone at that point is gonna just want to get it over and done with if they're stuck for 10 minutes.

[foggy lily]

i remember saying this a while ago but my suggestion was to add an option when the player first logs on where they can choose if want to play with accommodations or not. this can then be toggled on and off later only if they chose yes. it could include stuff like eo parkour and add an easier fix to similar things later on

sort of similar to epilepsy warning at the start of some games ig

[shut quiver]

Fair. Could work i think the issue is because they'd have to do new stuff for different sections. Only reason i'd rather keep it to EO is to not give the dev's too much to do

[foggy lily]

thats true but i feel like the method i suggested would be a better option for the future bc u could just add any fix to it for any part of the game that might come up later

and it just gives the devs more freedom with what they want to do if they know they can always go back and add accommodations this way

[shut quiver]

Yeah fair. Would help with other sections if there's issues there. main comment i saw was that they already had minor issues with the game with just depth perception but were fairly manageable it's just EO where those minor problems got so much worse. So i think that's the main reason why EO's the problem.
If you were having problems already the invisible platforms just don't work for you.

[foggy lily]

yeah so maybe if they chose to play with accommodations there could be particle indicators on the platforms themselves and this would not affect the majority of players who arent disabled because well i like to assume that people who arent disabled tend to play without accommodations

[shut quiver]

Just gives them an idea where to jump and something to actually see. Might work there since RoL 3 has the particle platforms and i haven't seen people complain there

[foggy lily]

yeah

[wanton mulch]

Thoughts on people who would take 45 min + on the parkour? I feel semi passionately just cause I remembered how extremely embarrassing I felt trying to do this dungeon in a party and everyone being forced to wait almost an entire hour for my slow ass. That’s where my perspective comes from

[bold quarry]

Ok but do you have this disability thing that stops you from completing it

[foggy lily]

the only problem i can see with that is that it would need to be offered to current players somehow and that would give players who arent disabled and are just skill issueing to basically choose to play the game on easy mode

maybe u could give a survey where the reason behind asking the question isnt exactly clear to try to get more honest responses?

[wanton mulch]

It felt extremely hard for me to judge the distance. When the pov was max it felt like half the time I really was just guessing on where I was going to land

[foggy lily]

i had the exact same issue, i had 2 friends finish the parkour in 5 minutes and they had to wait like half an hour while i was struggling with it

[bold quarry]

Yea but you know in your heart you arent disabled

It’s ok to just… be terrible at something

[wanton mulch]

It’s like a spectrum of skill issue

[foggy lily]

if its skill issue u dont need accommodations

[shut quiver]

only idea i have is could just make it a choice in the dungeom, until they do get around to making it more widespread.
And yeah if you're just not good at parkour then eh. I think the main issue is there EO being mandatory and expecting everything to be decent at parkour.

[wanton mulch]

When the skill required for the parkour is more than the boss I feel the parkour should be looked at. Again quite a few people have said the parkour has almost always been the hardest part of the dungeon even pre 2.0. It’s never taken me 45 mins to beat they eye, its consistent the parkour that has been the “hard part”

[shut quiver]

Thinking about it EO might actually basically ban players from progression if the parkour stays as is and some people can't complete it once dern gets added. Unless they do an alternate way in.

[foggy lily]

i mean, like ct said, dern probably isnt coming out for a few years so a comprehensive fix isnt desperately needed rn

[shut quiver]

yeah just defintely gonna be needed at some point since that's gonna be an issue

[foggy lily]

yeah

[wanton mulch]

Idk I’m in the camp if I hope CT kinda learn their lesson and just accept making shit invisible is pretty bad game design

[shut quiver]

yeah that's fair, invisible platforms aren't always the most fun, i like the rest of the parkours. So if need be can just pick one of them.

[foggy lily]

i mean, sure but get a few people to agree with u before expecting a change lol

[wanton mulch]

The reaction to barrior blocks in lring….

Lots of people hate the invis blocks

[foggy lily]

yeah everyone hated that

but the barriers in lring isnt the same as the ones in eo

[shut quiver]

yeah. See which is more liked, but do dislike people treating the dislike of invisible platforms as the end of parkour as someone did.
Like wynn has proven it can do some really fun parkour

[wanton mulch]

I think the invis walls in the parkour add greatly to the frustration. Atleast it does for me

[foggy lily]

and some insane pc killers (fallen factory im looking at u)

[foggy lily]

@wanton mulch

[wanton mulch]

I think people wouldn’t minds eo parkour as much if you could use movement spells properly, that’s doesn’t seem like a crazy take

[foggy lily]

get the people who wouldnt mind this change to be more vocal

[shut quiver]

fair.
But like
Star thief UR RoL 3 and 4 are good parkours. I want to say shattered mind's as well but i can't remember if that was the last version.

[foggy lily]

holy shit i hate star thief why tf does it start itself

[shut quiver]

xD i was going with good parkours

overall quest sucks but the parkour in it is fun with the moving blocks

[bold quarry]

The other in your party, are they parkour pro gamers?

Because if they arent, 75% of people completing the parkour below 5 minutes is a sign the parkour doesnt need a nerf or removal

[wanton mulch]

But 25% taking 45 + min is ok?

To me that’s a sign the gymik is just a shitty gymik

[shut quiver]

Pretty much there's different parkours to do that wynn showing there's limitless possibilities for that which aren't as problematic

[bold quarry]

Probably is a spectrum

[wanton mulch]

I hate the moving block parkour, it’s impossible for them to design it around custom walk speed which leads to players being forced to remove armor, it’s also a pretty annoying gymik imo especially with ping issues

I’m gonna bow out but imo the parkour in Wynn isn’t the best. I find myself enjoying CSST and Cur parkour the most

[shut quiver]

SST parkour is basic but fun

[wanton mulch]

It’s the fact it’s semi random/ can cycle between different ones I like the most about it

It has the most “replay ability” imo

[empty oyster]

mb

[pale totem]

You literally replied to the message where I said "this isn't really a valid point because xyz"

[shut quiver]

Tbf i was going with hypothetical. I already guessed it'd be sorted by then

but as i said after. It's needed at some point but i know there's a few years till dern gets added.

and anyway i was more going with current state. I'm not against it getting it changed but i do agree assistance should be the higher priority. I only brought up alternate parkours in that eventuality. But as i said, i'd rather there just be some kind of assistance for the struggling people

[pale totem]

Then there's not really a need to bring it up.

[empty stream]

Mirror room makes me zzzz

[naive zodiac]

wow i wish i was that lucky

[naive zodiac]

what isnt harder than the boss fight in eo lmao

[naive zodiac]

its xae they are probably trolling

[shut quiver]

I miss when the eye was hard

[twilit shore]

https://youtu.be/U1aKmDz5t6A?si=VerrqnjCMh6LA7gM

I miss when the Eye was hard too.... (This was patched btw)

[wanton mulch]

Personally disagree. Learning the eye combat was much much much easier than my attempts at the parkour.

[shut quiver]

No he's saying literally everything is easier than the eye in eo xD

[wanton mulch]

Oh lmao I def read that wrong

[twilit shore]

Literally the entirety of EO is harder than the Eye lmao, it needs a buff

But if the Eye gets a buff, the parkour needs a nerf so as not to prevent attempts at EO taking 40 minutes

[naive zodiac]

dw so did i and i wrote it lmao

took me like a minute of thinking to think about the message and if i was saying it right

[meager lark]

I think it's best to assume that these people have already tried everything they can to beat the parkour, but to no avail

again, this isn't just a matter of skill. there are people out there who are really bad at, or even incapable of, visualizing things

someone physically disabled can't just walk by doing some strategy. nearsighted people can't just will out getting perfect vision

[naive zodiac]

ngl great analogy

[meager lark]

we're all built different. if we can make arguments with this idea in mind, then we can be more productive with our conversations

[naive zodiac]

had not thought of that before

[meager lark]

at the end of the day, they're all just different ways of us being built differently

[wanton mulch]

https://youtu.be/UkbqajPodaM ok i finally got around to testing the change. for me personally ITS EXTREMELY HELPFUL

if other people still struggle i semi understand on part 4 but for me personally the red dot is a game changer for me in helping orante myself whike not taking 30+ mins

[foggy lily]

if 0:20 is how u were doing the parkour before then its not really the red dot helping u by indicating where u r, its helping with ur methodology

i can see how its helpful for p3 and p4 tho althogh i still think that it is just crosshair junior

[wanton mulch]

I forgot to record my mic so that kinda explain some of the awkward pauses cause I was talking. The first section is just vastly easier because it’s much much closer, but ultimately it’s being able to have my cross hair pointed at where I want to jump instead of being locked at my feet. I don’t know how to really put it into words but having both a visual representation of where I am and also being able to focus on where I want to go is a huge game changer for me when it comes to parkour

[ocean verge]

Okay I will say it again. This isn't a "get good" or "become able" strategy. It's like showing someone someone in a wheel chair there is already a ramp just on the other side of the building. (This analogy is beside the point.)

If you can't implement this, I am not sure how you even got to eo. All the skill wynn pvp takes at the least (looking at specific objects with your cursor) is admittedly sufficient to do the parkour

You might have to do the parkour in a very mechanised fashion and slowly, go around the building to the other side and take your way in slowly there, but it's not inachievable with the skillset you are required to have to play wynn up to SE.

(Everything except stare directly at the next marker with your cursor is button inputs)

The problem I think people rather have is that they have problems, get frustrated and don't try to use a slow brute force method because it doesn't come to mind as an obvious idea that you really don't actually need to understand where the platforms are. (This is not saying they aren't thinking about it. When something frustrates you, you will rarely find a new better strategy to actually do it)

[bold quarry]

People fail at the game and throws a tantrum

If they struggle with something, they think that means that it’s fundamentally flawed

Never blame the players, only the game

[warped arch]

we sure do love complete miscommunication among humans

[meager lark]

It's an incredibly invalidating assumption that these people are complaining because they're being impatient and are just "brute-forcing" the parkour.

[ocean verge]

Okay then how are they both able to get to eo but not able to do this

Also note that Xae's message is not mine

[bold quarry]

What i thought 2 different humans are the same person

[meager lark]

what's the logic behind that question

[ocean verge]

?????

[meager lark]

again this isn't about skill

[ocean verge]

To get to and have a chance to beat eo

Do you think this is possible without the ability to aim your cursor on a stationary object?

Or is something you can expect a player to be able to do?

This is not a skill question, this is are you capable of this base player ability?

If you are able to do this, then there is a way to beat the parkour rigidly without much other intuition for parkour.

[meager lark]

You mean to say that if you are incapable of visualization then you can't be a player?

[ocean verge]

Visualisation?????

[meager lark]

bro that's like the whole problem

have you tried reading through the discussions

[ocean verge]

Please read what I am asking. I am asking you to align your crosshair with a marker on the floor

[ocean verge]

If you can do that, you can bear the parkour

There are only 2 block or 3 block same-y level jumps. There is no spatial or temporal coordination necessary for this.

[meager lark]

You ask me to read what you're writing while refusing to read what I've written?

[ocean verge]

Because your point goes back up the argument to the problem when I am saying there is a workable work around

[meager lark]

yeah ok bye

[empty stream]

jesus man 😭

ngl personally i still think people should just cope if they struggle with the parkour but im indifferent to if it receives changes to become easier or whatever

but seeing all these long drawn out aggressive arguments over a PARKOUR section is INSANE

[stone osprey]

I feel like way too many people aren’t able to understand that other people perceive stuff differently from themselves

Which pretty much happens worldwide in any situation so I understand why it’s also happening here

I still have a slight issue for the small few people who refuse to believe that the perception problem is a real thing though

While I for one don’t have this experience I can logically conclude that it does exist because of how many complaints I have personally seen on this exact issue

Hell, I even got a firsthand look when I actually ran EO with another individual, they were missing every single jump despite us doing it really slowly and I legit had to act as a marker so the player was able to jump to where I’m standing

I don’t want to subject the same individual to what they probably consider as a living hell on Earth nor do I have any recordings of the session of what probably lasted half an hour for a single level of the parkour but if you really insist I can probably ask them to run it again

Because having looked at this damn thing play out in live time I can safely say that this is very much beyond a simple skill issue

[bold quarry]

Did that player look down or straight forward?

[stone osprey]

How the hell does anyone do the parkour looking straight forward

That’s literally the exact same as doing the parkour with your eyes closed

[bold quarry]

Ok but how can they look at where youre standing

[warped arch]

finnaly... someone gets it

[warped arch]

bc players are visible

[bold quarry]

Guess what more is visible in that room

[warped arch]

not the platforms

[bold quarry]

True, but something else!

[stone osprey]

Oh wait sorry
Yes they look forward once we both agreed that I would serve as a marker rather than use the glowstone floor

[warped arch]

which doesn't help that person

[stone osprey]

It was taking them like more than ten minutes using the floor and even then they were still at the beginning

I had no choice but to either give up the dungeon or help them

This is not a joke they were missing almost every single platform

[stone osprey]

I would say the player marker is arguably better even for players who don’t struggle with this

Because me as the marker literally serves as the platform because I mark the exact location of the standable region

So rather than using the floor tiles like 10-20 blocks below them they instead just jump directly to my feet

Which, in case you aren’t aware, are about 0-0 blocks from the invisible platform

[bold quarry]

They can just play as the marker? Especially with it being a red particle effect now

How many blocks there is apart is irrelevant

[meager lark]

there really is no point arguing with someone so committed to misunderstanding you

[bold quarry]

Ill leave the thread if someone explains how not being able to see the red dot is connected to lack of depth perception

[stone osprey]

I gotta be honest, I also have absolutely no idea how the red dot doesn’t help with the problem, I feel like it should have solved it

But if the same people are still facing the exact same issue even with the red dot then it stands to logically reason that maybe the red dot doesn’t really help that much in perception, despite my previous beliefs

[bold quarry]

Im convinced people just complain just because their idea didnt get implemented

CT listened and gave a reasonable fix and people still play the depth reception card

[stone osprey]

I really don’t feel like that should happen

If the addition really fixed their issue they would actually mention it

It kinda goes against past examples where a similar structure of events happen

[bold quarry]

The people complaining arent the ones having issues

[shut quiver]

Your lack of comprehension is astounding

[bold quarry]

Youre here just to comment every time someone makes a reading/communication or spelling mistake

If you didnt notice, that stopped being cool when you hit age 9

[shut quiver]

No you just physically dont see someone's point and that astonishes me

[bold quarry]

I did afterwards and moved on

Meanwhile you cant move on from someone not understanding what someone else is saying

You stroke your ego in discord for no reason

[shut quiver]

Ribbon made it very clear that whoever struggled was looking down and it never worked for them. Moment ribbon stands on the platform giving the player a better cue on where to jump it helps them much more

[bold quarry]

What do you gain from clarifying this when i already understood what he meant

Youre here just to be a silly keyboard warrior, lucky that everyone already gave up on this thread

You have no reason to start a conversation with me but you still do

[shut quiver]

You never made it clear you understood.

And you're the one doing the outright insulting genuinely if you can't go an argument without insulting about it just stop

[bold quarry]

Ok i guess ill respond "I understand what you mean" every time I reply to someone. Gosh your social skills is on point

Again, me being "insulting" is irrelevent

[meager lark]

please don't entertain this man

they're not worth it

(uH I'm talking to you Blegar)

[shut quiver]

Fair yeah he's proven he's just ignoring points as well as being outright insulting

[bold quarry]

Didnt you literally get emotional in this thread yesterday?

Like both of you are here just to annoy, I bet yall didnt even try the new parkour

[shut quiver]

Can the keyboard warrior stop being rude please. And its literally crosshair jr so no point for me.

[meager lark]

naw man just don't respond to them

at all

[shut quiver]

Oh i was just getting the final point across xD my last message to them

[meager lark]

alr epic

[shut quiver]

it might be why you standing on the platform worked but crosshair didn't. You gave them a visual cue in front of them where to jump which works for them much better than the markers below

[stone osprey]

Correct

[shut quiver]

Red dot instead of a crosshair might not help the people genuinely unable to do jumping even with the crosshair below them. Definitely works for some people but the lack of visible platforms for others is a reason

[wanton mulch]

Just add my 2 cents in. As someone who use to extremely struggle on later ends of the parkour. The red dot was game changing for me.

[foggy lily]

@stone osprey sry for the ping but would it be possible to get ur friend to join this post? It sounds like ur friend had exactly the issue that we are having disagreements on and I think it would be helpful to everyone to see a perspective from someone actually having the issue