Sky Islands and Molten Heights Lootrun Feedback

[shut juniper]

have u ever tried equilibrium?

[rancid oasis]

yes

[waxen briar]

this is how cleansing + equi looks like, i just wish i had gbeast or sacrafice as well

[rancid oasis]

one run literally danny (in my countless runs)

[shut juniper]

equilibrium can make u oneshot mobs even they have 84% resis and u can get purple at the same time

or maybe not oneshot but u can kill them fast

[rancid oasis]

defend objectives

[waxen briar]

1000% crit dmg my beloved

with 5mill ehp

[inner flicker]

equili is just the holy mission for survivability

and pulls

[shut juniper]

imagine u doing orphion inner and u need to keep taking blue or u need tons of time to kill mobs

they should make inner halve the resis cap

[fading pond]

It does. If you take inner resist caps at 42%

[violet hamlet]

i think the best solution is to split the missions into 2 beacons, grey and dark grey, having permanent missions that affect the whole run in dark grey, while one-time missions in grey

so like equilibrium and cleansing ritual might be in dark grey, while redemption and high roller would be in grey

[frozen matrix]

^ I’ve been preaching this for like weeks now

Also I think challanges would be better if it wasn’t directly related to beacons so like if one was like “kill 4 purple star mobs” or “run 1000 blocks” or other actually objectives that aren’t 100% tied to rng

[violet hamlet]

yes, but “purple star mobs” are actually rare mobs, and finding those is mostly rng

but yea it could work if executed well

[frozen matrix]

I feel like while lring I see them so much

Maybe make it 1 but ya

[undone pagoda]

Anticheese is also "rare mob"

[frozen matrix]

?

[undone pagoda]

A lot of anticheese mobs have the purple star from what I saw

[frozen matrix]

Oh

[royal charm]

have you considered that maybe you're wrong

[royal charm]

This is not true

[unborn vault]

Surely people would have noticed that all of the purple missions are based around curses, and all of the yellow beacons are based around chests....

[lunar lava]

extremely critical to the point of inaccuracy post from marqn number 93

[frozen matrix]

^disagree

[unreal badger]

by saying this you’d be suggesting you didn’t say that which you did

[unreal badger]

the hero beta channel basically contributed nothing because the only one that was engaging was tealy and they claimed to only be responsible for the new mobs / challenges.. so while these do matter, they are a very minor part of the problem

[lunar lava]

yeah, me and tealy did the sky and molten lootruns

[unreal badger]

yep, then so like I said, there was no one that was in charge for general balancing that was engaging with that channel

[royal charm]

thats not what im suggesting

[frozen matrix]

I wonder what y’all’s build were for each class Ngl. In the nicest way possible

[royal charm]

lmk whats unbalanced

[frozen matrix]

For what camp?

Can I add lutho in or do u not control that area?

But specifically MH it’s the ice dragon guy, heavy explosion from him dmg scales way more than everything else around. And the guys by the smoke slay challange, the black things that shoot arrow storm rapidly do extreme amounts of dmg

But also changed my build around on shaman and didn’t have blood teleport and some of the beacons were extremely annoying to get to (dragon ended up feeling so annoying to deal with)

[frozen matrix]

Also not tealy gate keeping their lring build 😭

[unreal badger]

I’m not going to speak in code language, it is what you said and it doesn’t reflect what is actually present in the game.. I was simply wondering why you said that, that’s all

if you tell me to consider that I am wrong how about you tell me why it is that I’m wrong so I can try to understand what you were trying to say?

[waxen briar]

Madeline moment 84

[frozen matrix]

(This did make me laugh pretty hard tho)

[hollow pewter]

yeah im not buying it. i can literally see madeline twirling a little evil villain bad guy up to no good mischief mustache rn

[shut juniper]

wait isnt tealy the first one who say mission has rarity (or u mean they have different rate to appear?)

[unreal badger]

yeah they said it is based off the color shown

[shut juniper]

cant find it again tho because it is in beta chat iirc

[waxen briar]

yeah they must have left that in the beta lol

just like everything else that got changed out of nowhere between beta and release

[unreal badger]

🤗

[shut juniper]

actually is the grey nerf in beta really a nerf or a bug? because there's nothing talking about this change

[waxen briar]

which grey nerf

[shut juniper]

vibrant from 5 choices to 4

[waxen briar]

at this point idk whats a nerf bug or whatever

[shut juniper]

yeah because the patch notes never show everything

that's why i dont fking do a bug report

it is actually easier to report a bug when zeer randomly saying hello chat in #🌎wynncraft
instead of writing a useless bug report

[unreal badger]

maybe if someone was communicating we would get more information

[shut juniper]

dont know if that is possible because even cts dont know much about it

ct can only ask about it

[royal charm]

these have already been nerfed

[unreal badger]

the black guys nuke you pretty much instantly

I have not noticed any change, maybe it wasn’t pushed yet

[royal charm]

final wave spawns 2 ashbelchers instead of 3

[unreal badger]

that’s nice, although I think the mobs themselves could use a nerf considering they have so much hp, they attack insanely fast and they also teleport pretty much everywhere and every second

[royal charm]

they attack once per 4s

[unreal badger]

plus the ring is so small so they just teleport outside of it (or straight into the lava) and you just get absolutely screwed because you get pushed back into the middle while they nuke you

[royal charm]

are you referring to fumedragon or ashbelcher

[unreal badger]

im actually not sure which one it is

I know the mobs in the first wave are the fumedragons and they’re far less annoying so it must be the ash

[royal charm]

no fumedragons only spawn in later waves

the ones in first few waves are smogeists and smokescreens

[unreal badger]

oh there’s more than 2 mobs?

[royal charm]

which both have very low hp

[unreal badger]

then I’m not sure which one nukes you and teleports around so much while also having so much HP

[inner flicker]

maybe u had low hp?

[royal charm]

Wave 1:
4 Smokescreens
2 Smogeists

Wave 2:
2 Smokescreens
3 Smogeists
1 Ashbelcher

Wave 3:
4 Smogeists
2 Ashbelchers
1 Fumedragon

Wave 4:
6 Smogeists
2 Ashbelchers
2 Fumedragon

[unreal badger]

also unrelated but since I know for sure and for this one I’m talking about I don’t know for sure, there are a few other spots that can use some improvements in MH

[royal charm]

from wiki, im assuming this is accurate

[royal charm]

nothing does this

fumedragon teleports but it doesnt nuke like ashbelcher does

[unreal badger]

the gate slay wave is really big which kinda makes it way longer than any of the other slay challenges, it would be nice if the ring was smaller which would mean the radius the mobs spawn in would be smaller

and the final mob’s hit box can be improved , he is so big yet the hit box is so small

another thing is the excavator defense challenge

[frozen matrix]

Tealy my other problem with MH is trying to get into the dragon mouth challange. Is there an easier path I don’t know about? Rn I just jump from the roof of the house next to it and kinda just hope and pray but I end up missing the jump like 4/5 times before I finally can get in

[unreal badger]

change it to 50s bc why is everything 50 and that one 1m
second thing is that the excavator’s HP scales wayyyyyyy too much compared to everything else, the mobs around him have sooooo much less ho in a ridiculously scaled amount

and one more thing his hit box is also kinda weird considering how big he is

[royal charm]

this is weird, it has proper hitbox size

[unreal badger]

i feel like i can barely hit him

[royal charm]

im not changing excavator, its meant to be unkillable

[unreal badger]

oh also the final mob’s ai is odd, sometimes he just 180s and runs away from me

[royal charm]

its just charge AI

[unreal badger]

okay sure, if that’s the intention . what about the challenge duration and the hit box

[royal charm]

but its been changed to reg melee

[unreal badger]

it’s the only mob I’ve noticed it happen with

[frozen matrix]

Tealy is the dragon mouth thing just a me problem then?

[royal charm]

i assume you mean the drill attack. its meant to be big to stunlock you

[unreal badger]

he just sometimes feels like running away from you

[frozen matrix]

^ most of the time he ends up chasing the archers around

[royal charm]

you are missing the ledge that leads up to it from the right

[unreal badger]

pardon ? im talking about the excavator’s hit box, I can sometimes barely hit him even when I’m really close

[frozen matrix]

Kk I’ll look for it when I get home today

[unreal badger]

there is a parkour I think but it’s just easier with most of the movement spells

[royal charm]

i have no idea what you're talking about, he has a normal hitbox ive never noticed anything weird with it

ill double check and make it slightly bigger maybe

[unreal badger]

i think the drill itself he’s holding might not be a part of the Hitbox since the entity must be much smaller than the model of the drill

Which creates the illusion that I should be dealing damage to him, but in reality he’s a little further away from me and it’s just the huge model of the drill causing me to think he’s within my range

[royal charm]

boowomp

[unreal badger]

an important thing is also the duration change if possible

but idk if that’s up2u

[royal charm]

@tough harness designed that specific challenge so idk why its 1m

i think it could get changed to 50s just for parity but like..... its 10s

[unreal badger]

i know it’s just kinda annoying it’s different from the rest for no reason really

most of the challenges in MH are balanced I feel (though the last mob in dragon cave has a million abilities and a lot of HP which could imo be improved), and the fact that currently most of the challenges are roughly on the same Y level makes the lootrun playable on basically most classes which is nice

plus most of the caves aren’t annoying at all with the exception of dragon mouth

[royal charm]

btw i tested sky on every class idk why you're struggling so much w dif y levels

[unreal badger]

i haven’t really tried it with anything other than idol, I tried warp for a bit and realised that it’s not fun for me whatsoever to play without Heal, and if you play anything other than arcanist for lootruns you’d be wasting your time

archer just felt really bad when I used it for SE, shaman I don’t like because it sucks, assassin is actually really nice, especially with propeller offering more mobility

and corkus just has the problem of awful caves so I don’t want to play it

[shut juniper]

actually how archer lr in sky

[royal charm]

awful in what way

[unreal badger]

minutes long

[royal charm]

mfw

[unreal badger]

ik lol

[royal charm]

this is what makes feedback difficult sometimes ngl

[unreal badger]

it’s just much different than the rest of the camps where caves are not long at all

i get that it’s not the best comment to make but that’s really whet i feel

[royal charm]

its sometimes unclear if something is legit balanced poorly/unfun to play or if its just being called awful because it takes longer

if we made a new lootrun in a much smaller area where it took 10s to get between each challenge, would the wait between challenges in other camps become worse?

[unreal badger]

it’s not balanced poorly or unfun (with the exception of totem cave, that one is definitely not balanced nor fun), it’s just that the caves are so weirdly built that even with movement spells it’s difficult to traverse

[unreal badger]

it doesn’t make the others “worse”, it just makes them way longer than the “better alternative”

[royal charm]

yeah

[unreal badger]

so it just isn’t really as fun to me knowing that in the time I complete half of the corkus caves, I would’ve completed atleast 3 caves in any other camp

and im not even mentioning how huge corkus actually is and how widely spread the challenges are

[shut juniper]

yeah corkus size is stupid

[frozen matrix]

I lr on warp lightbender I like it way way more than warpcanist

[frozen matrix]

Imo yes. The worst part of corkus for me is how far the camp are from each other

[shut juniper]

warpbender gang!

imo camps that take tons of time to travel should have much lower time in challenge

[vapid summit]

too much dev time

[vapid summit]

camp travel time is fine it’s just lootrun challenges being limited to 100 that is kinda messed up

walkspeed boons are easy to come across to hit the 400% cap which makes even shaman extremely fast

throw clouds fix height travel in sky

sky is just mostly map knowledge anyway fro ground classes and now that dead weight exists shaman can move even faster

it’s just that warp goes even faster and cuts out like 30 seconds from the already fast shaman travel time

[shut juniper]

actually is trem the only item that have dead wieght?

[vapid summit]

yea

[shut juniper]

so u need 85 str build to use deadweight

[vapid summit]

yea

moontower sucks anyway

[shut juniper]

it is hard to make a build with this tho

usually u want to lr with olym as shaman right?

well maybe not that hard

i just find out that warp req 130 agi is actually an insane number

[vapid summit]

not if you use rainbow

did you know far cosmos gives 45 skill points

[shut juniper]

yeah i know

[vapid summit]

and anxiolytic gives 37

[shut juniper]

but u dont want to get forced to use them right?

but i guess it is not hard for shaman

[vapid summit]

in lootruns it doesn’t really matter you just build requirements

[shut juniper]

olym only req 105 sp

lr actually matter if u want major id

[vapid summit]

dead weight also has the benefit of being able to be wielded with silent ballet if you’re using olympic

the benefits of tremorcaller

[shut juniper]

what does silent ballet use for?

is it for healing or what

[dreamy dust]

funny movment item

[shut juniper]

oh yeah that's right

do people lr with olym or what?

what is the best relik for lr

[frozen matrix]

Ya I use oly, I tried to duo wield with it but didn’t work out rlly

[shut juniper]

wait

if u use silent ballet to movement why u need deadweight?

u cant use both of them at the same time

@vapid summit

[vapid summit]

it’s for like early challenges when u don’t have mana

[lunar lava]

I don't have a mustache !!!

I twirl my hair instead. Put my index finger in it and curl my hair around it

that's my evil mustache twirling

[shut juniper]

now i wonder what a good oly build looks like

[vapid summit]

probably just like uh

gale sight something something

ea triple wield tremorcaller silent ballet oly

eta yea

[dreamy dust]

deadweight is better if u have the sustain for it, also u can use silent ballet for vertical movement

[shut juniper]

how about use trem to dps

[dreamy dust]

trem tstack >:)

[shut juniper]

it seems deadweight can make the totem drop immediately if u looking at the ground

so u can build a totem build

[dreamy dust]

i thiknk blue alr made a totem smasher buid

[frozen matrix]

^ it’s not good apparently

[dreamy dust]

it is funny!

[waxen briar]

How do you deal with any slay challenge? It must take quite a while

[inner flicker]

Revenant Olympic

[frozen matrix]

Not rlly, enough dmg for it to not matter for like 20 challanges and by then heal does a lot of dmg or just kinda end the run since it was a dud

[frozen matrix]

When u start getting a lot of health heal does a lot of dmg

[inner flicker]

how do you activate fortitude and similar?

no lightweaver either

[frozen matrix]

When low on health the healing to orbs scales a ton

[inner flicker]

on low heatlh

[frozen matrix]

So either glassy with fortitude or tank with heal dmg

I’m use warp so I’m constantly losing health

[inner flicker]

yeah but it takes ages

-1000 hpr wont do much with 60k hp

[frozen matrix]

It’s pandaminum warp build

[waxen briar]

Still guning down everything with warpanist sounds better

[frozen matrix]

I like heal that’s all

I won’t play without being able to heal I’m not a big fan of pots

[waxen briar]

Heal potions are broken so I'm good on that

[inner flicker]

https://youtu.be/Zo_RuXJolog

[waxen briar]

33% of my HP with one click? Hell yeah

[frozen matrix]

That game play made me almost vomit omg

Crazy ass angle to play at holy crap

[inner flicker]

i think it is really practical

i see everything in front

3rd person but your head aint blocking the thing you are looking at

[vapid summit]

how do you guys just not take boons

[inner flicker]

equilibrium

[vapid summit]

that is taking boons

im talking about people who take curses with no equilibrium no boons

then complaining that its too hard to play

[waxen briar]

🤷‍♂️

i end every run if it doesnt have both cleansing and equilibrium so idk

[waxen briar]

which means that from over 100 lootruns so far ive only had 2 successfull runs

[inner flicker]

well no cleansing can still work

[waxen briar]

eh sure but then u gota take red beacons..

[inner flicker]

and greens

[shut juniper]

if u have to keep taking red and green then probably end the run is better

[inner flicker]

indeed

[waxen briar]

btw @royal charm idk if this is a materialism thing or what but this challenge doesnt give the chest and flying chests untill you class

[shut juniper]

it only give u chest in beta

[slow wyvern]

rip brother man u got the bug ive been begging them to fix.

[shut juniper]

how to fix the bug

1. dont choose materialism or
2. dont lr in sky

[unreal badger]

don’t run sky ✅

[shut juniper]

no way

how the fk this working properly?

[violet hamlet]

yeah what the hell i thought that was broken

[shut juniper]

this is the first i see it work after the beta

[royal charm]

dont run sky because one chest sometimes doesnt show up

[unreal badger]

i just personally dislike it

[royal charm]

why

[unreal badger]

not because of the bug

wel i explained earlier a lot of reasons but it’s not something u can fix sadly :(

[royal charm]

Can you link to that

[waxen briar]

my only problem with sky in particular are the 2 (i think) slay challenges where there are floating mobs that i cannot hit as arcanist unless i do some weird spam teleport right on top of them and then i can use 1 maybe 2 meteors before i gota tp above again 💀

[unreal badger]

I would personally like each camps to be viable with each class and right now there is a very bad issue of classes being blatantly better than others for lootrunning

the only thing I guess you can do is add items with major ids but while I like the addition of propeler , I would prefer if the problem was fixed directly, since then you’d be kinda forcing people to play a certain archetype

people should play the content without being basically locked to an archetype

because lootrunning right now is different than before , before u would just spam LQ/LB, and now u need the best combat rolls you can get

[waxen briar]

you could avoid needing the best combat build if equilibrium wasnt as rare as a shiny mythic

i still dont get why equilibrium sudenly became so damn rare after hero beta

[unreal badger]

equilibrium is very op pre beta but now that challenges are capped to 100 it’s not as relevant as it was

[waxen briar]

wdym its still op

[unreal badger]

It’s very op

[waxen briar]

if you tried to do this without equilibrium its either impossible or it would take you 4-5 hours

[unreal badger]

it’s just not as significant as it was before challenge cap

yea this amt of pulls isn’t possible w/o equilibrium

[hollow pewter]

what is equilibrium

[rancid oasis]

a mission that gives u a boon for every curse you get

(aka op with cleansing since the boon doesnt get removed)

[hollow pewter]

ooh gotcha

[shut juniper]

with the challenge cap nerf equili from super duper op become super op

[inner flicker]

ya mean boons? missions? item ids?

[unreal badger]

what

I’m talking about gear

[inner flicker]

best combat rolls

[unreal badger]

previously you’d just slap disco with lq armor and now you actually need combat gear with good rolls

[inner flicker]

no

ya can go in with morph collapse and do the same dmg as super duper optimized collapse build after some boons

basically equilibrium

[unreal badger]

u r missing my point

[inner flicker]

what? only thing about your gear which matters late in the run is your base dps

[shut juniper]

nah also this

[hollow pewter]

the thing is u dont

all u need is a high base damage weapon like collapse and you can still run disco and lq accessories

armor is just used for sp reqs

[inner flicker]

not neccessary, this only really matters on warrior and mage

[shut juniper]

not neccessary but does it matter?

[inner flicker]

i lootrun on mage not using warp no problem

but 2spell cost is really convenient

[shut juniper]

yeah but it can make u faster it is not about have problem or what

[inner flicker]

thats true

though that speed difference is not huge

[shut juniper]

huge when u doing sky and co

new lr is great

[waxen briar]

major ID armor can help, like trift

[shut juniper]

killed by gb then got a catac from this

[unreal badger]

im talking about pre 2.0.3

obviously with boons armor becomes almost completely irrelevant

[hollow pewter]

what

[shut juniper]

actually not completely irrelevant ur build have huge impact on ur lr style or early run

[hollow pewter]

pre 2.0.3 you ran any movement-enabling weapon (warp, idol, strati) and disco + lq gear
post 2.0.4 you run any movement-enabling weapon and can run disco + lq gear and run a high base damage weapon (if u use idol, use collapse)

[shut juniper]

it is only irrelevant for long run

but every long run comes from short run so still relevant

also boons have different rate

lb boons is much more rare than other

[inner flicker]

well your playstyle ofc is important

[inner flicker]

after a full 374 equilibrium cleansing run I had like ~250 lb. disco would nearly double that

[shut juniper]

depends on how flying chest work

[shut juniper]

if u already have tons of boons u definitely want disco right?

the only problem of disco is just weak early game

[inner flicker]

ya cant just get 200lb with downsides

[shut juniper]

if u can get 250lb with equilibrium u probably became unkillable and one shot everything in any way

tbh i want to try a full lb/lq set

[unreal badger]

this is what I said
why is it so hard to understand

[hollow pewter]

you said the first part

and then you asked about the 2nd part. you said “now u need the best combat rolls you can get” which isn’t really true

[frosty bough]

it's slow

[royal charm]

its not slow, youre slow

[frosty bough]

i meant the challenges are far apart leading to slower runs

[royal charm]

its not much bigger than se, and it isnt segmented like it is

[shut juniper]

sky is good

at least good for warp user

[violet hamlet]

yeah idk, it can be kinda far if you get unlucky with a challenge that’s like across the map, but generally it’s pretty close IMO

definitely better than SE when it comes to challenge distance

[frosty bough]

i mean i've lred on warrior and acro and the height difference definitely slows you down

[inner flicker]

a bit but once u know all clouds posicion its not an issue

[cerulean oxide]

What clouds

[inner flicker]

Clouds in SI and Teleporters in SE

[shut juniper]

teleporters in se ?

void hole?

[inner flicker]

void holes

[shut juniper]

great

[unreal badger]

crazy i saw a new hotfix and tohught they would actually listen to feedback but pretty much only made lootruns worse XD

the only thing is the mob changes because it doesnt look like they even fixed the gray beacon bug if they just say "increased the chance for it to appear"

salted is troling the playerbase

[royal charm]

sorry

[shut juniper]

black tealy

ehhh

bro should i get this

i have equili and this is the 3rd grey

this is playable before this hotfix but after that idk if i should take it

[waxen briar]

get offered beacons is rough, if it was curses or boons you can stall to stack green atleast..

[shut juniper]

the problem is that i cant take curse to get boon if i only take green

and i still have 0 hp boon after aqua dgrey

[unreal badger]

if u cant aqua stack green then its ovah

[shut juniper]

they force u to do sacrifice before gb

@royal charm can u qol update this challenge

[royal charm]

no

[shut juniper]

the mobs always stuck in some weird place when they have too many walking speed

[waxen briar]

i love having to cause genocide behind every building to find that one random mob that hid

[shut juniper]

and i can never find them

wtf the dog stuck in the bridge

[dreamy dust]

so real speed curse actualy does something now 😔

[shut juniper]

somehow the dog can go through and stuck in the wall with lightspeed

too powerful

[dreamy dust]

that shit takes like 30 seconds out of the lr every time i get it with curses lo

[main ice]

Why would they nerf gambling beast lootruns didn’t need nerfs they needed buffs

[unreal badger]

salted likes trolling the players

[royal charm]

???????????????????

[main ice]

What

[royal charm]

they did not need buffs

[unreal badger]

anyways the gbeast nerf I guess we can live with but he nerf some other random stuff instead of fixing the other problems which is weird

[main ice]

Yes they do man

[royal charm]

im sorry you feel that way

[main ice]

They r so inconsistent mission wise

[unreal badger]

lootruns don’t need buffs they need to be balnced and fixed/

[royal charm]

they are meant to be inconsistent

[unreal badger]

that is not what salted said the goal is

[main ice]

Ok we’ll then maybe make all the missions decent then

[royal charm]

will making everything the same make it inconsistent?

[unreal badger]

they posted on forum that medium run should fee as rewarding and that players shouldn’t feel like they need to be running for longer periods of time

yet the update and the hotfixes achieve completely the opposite

[main ice]

Like that green mission that makes you lose no time during beacon choice is just horrible

[royal charm]

stasis?

[main ice]

Yeah

[royal charm]

isnt that like meta with gbeast

[unreal badger]

no..

[main ice]

It’s not

[royal charm]

i guess ppl who said it was were wrong!

[unreal badger]

I mean it’s not bad if it’s the best option you can take but it’s only 5 minutes

[main ice]

The meta is gbeast reroll and cleansing

[waxen briar]

what they need is less rng in getting a good run combined with mythic rate reduction

[main ice]

And gbeast is trash now

[waxen briar]

its not

[main ice]

True

[unreal badger]

gbeast is not trash but they just endlessly keep making it heavily rng

[royal charm]

yeah i mean if i was in charge i would just cut mythic chances to like 1/10th of what they are now and buff the fuck out of everything so its a powertrip

but i am not

[waxen briar]

but its all salted im guessing

[unreal badger]

yes

[waxen briar]

😭

[royal charm]

on one hand i get that yall feel unhappy when you have no control over the optimization of your run

[main ice]

Like just make lootrunning fun pls

[waxen briar]

fun lootruning + rarer mythics = overall more fun

[royal charm]

but on the other hand i think if you could just basically guarantee optimal runs every time it'd get super super boring and have no variety at all

[royal charm]

insane feedback

[main ice]

The mission system is amazing but too inconsistent

[waxen briar]

its less fun to just drop 99% of the lootruns due to bad mission rng tho

[royal charm]

then dont drop them

play them through

[waxen briar]

why would i waste time on a run with high rolled inner peace materialism and redemtpion?

[royal charm]

the mindset of it being a waste of time if its not a god run is what is ruining it for yall

[waxen briar]

im not asking to get the best run every time but right now there are like 3 different versions of a "god run" that you can in theory get and ive only goten the same one twice in over 100 lootruns

its just not fun at all

[unreal badger]

i mean the only reason to run without gbeast is to run equilibrium redemption

otherwise ur just wasting ur time

[royal charm]

nah i mean i just run and get whatever and sometimes i get mythics

[waxen briar]

tealy

[unreal badger]

i get that u think it’s “variety” but there’s a huge gap of rewards within missions

[waxen briar]

i droped a lootrun at 29 pulls and got idol, next day i droped a lootrun and got 2 idols from 90 pulls
that doesnt matter at all

[unreal badger]

that’s fine if u wanna chill but most people run for the rewards lol

[waxen briar]

i want a long and fun lootrun even if it doesnt give me a mythic

[royal charm]

if there was no rewards i wouldnt lootrun

[waxen briar]

i dont want a 29 pull run that gives me an idol out of nowhere

[royal charm]

its just possible for me to have fun without forcing a god run

[waxen briar]

well everyone is different, if i could have fun with a shitty lootrun i wouldnt be here now would i

[royal charm]

i suppose so, ill see what I can do about stuff but yeah i really cant change that much myself

[waxen briar]

again im not asking to make god runs guaranteed but like cmoon ive goten more double mythics than god runs in 2.0.4

[unreal badger]

i mean this thread is kinda sad bc from what I understand all tealy can do is like change some mobs

and salted probably doesn’t care anyways since if they did they would have used hero beta channel or atleast this one

[waxen briar]

yeah salted just cares about statistics rather than actual people's feedback as far as i can tell

[royal charm]

i will hold this in my heart forever

[shut juniper]

no it is totally a trash after this gb change...

[waxen briar]

the gbeast change still makes it usable but only in the low 1% chance that u get a good sacrafice run into a good gbeast run which is like the rarest thing in the game 🥶

a combo i havent managed to get a single time since 2.0.4 released

[main ice]

bro gbeast is trash compared to before

[shut juniper]

nah the gb change makes gb totally different with good/bad objective, if u have bad objective i dont know if u should take gb and if u have good objective stasis probably just give u one more rr

[main ice]

you get way less pulls since you cant go to 100chal and get less rerolls

[unreal badger]

it’s not trash but now ur just forced to get a dumb objective

[main ice]

wdym its not trash

[royal charm]

me when the run ender ends my run

[unreal badger]

basically if u get gbeast with any objective that can’t be stalled u won’t be able to make it so efficient

[main ice]

its trash compared to before

[waxen briar]

gbeast nerf was fine in a vacuum but the other missions being extremely rare is what makes gbeast nearly unusable

[unreal badger]

it’s just more rng dependent which is stupid

[waxen briar]

it was overpowered before so yeah if u compare it to that sure

[main ice]

well maybe nerf it some other way

[unreal badger]

but I guess that’s what salted wants, just make absolutely everything more rng reliant than the other

[main ice]

like increasing the time it takes

[royal charm]

what bro......

[shut juniper]

can they just remove gb so we cant get more rr and at the same time bring back the aqua stack and no aqua amount cap?

[unreal badger]

it’s not trash u can still get a good run but u just have to be extremely lucky

[shut juniper]

if they really dont like u get too many rr

[royal charm]

how about we change it to just give you 4 rr's and then instantly end your run, would that be better?

[main ice]

getting a good amount of rerolls isnt that bad

[shut juniper]

u mean for gb?

[main ice]

like how many can u get with gbeast now?

[royal charm]

yeah

[main ice]

realistically

[shut juniper]

it would be better IF u can get mission in late run or it will be short run meta again

[royal charm]

wait but why would you choose it early in a run

[shut juniper]

(actually even u can get mission in late run u still need rng to get it)

[main ice]

how is short runs good with mission system lol

[shut juniper]

no i mean in challenge like 50-90 not 3rd grey smth

[royal charm]

yeah that'd be awesome

[shut juniper]

and i still dont know if u can get grey after chall 30 smth now

i still dont know what this mean is it smth shadow changed before the notes?

[unreal badger]

the bug isn’t fixed for grays

so idk what that means lol

[main ice]

what bug

[shut juniper]

that's not a bug that's a feature (i m serious)

[unreal badger]

who said it’s a feature..

[shut juniper]

devs

it works like what they want

[undone pagoda]

You can have variety with better balanced missions 🤯

[unreal badger]

it’s not what they said on the thread

the thread says it will slowly disappear if it’s offered and its not picked

[shut juniper]

then it is a thread bug not grey bug

[unreal badger]

lol yeah that’s prob how they will make it look

but to me rn it’s a bug

[shut juniper]

at least from what tealy said it is intentional for the devs (unless i got scammed)

also there's some bugs still not fixed since beta...

[main ice]

can we all agree that they should remove/ rework stasis

[undone pagoda]

Btw did anyone point out that boon nerf is an equilibrium buff?

[shut juniper]

what?

[undone pagoda]

Stasis is fine, it just needs more missions to synergize with

[unreal badger]

when did tely say this

[shut juniper]

@royal charm

[main ice]

stasis saves barely any time

[shut juniper]

i figure this grey FEATURE since the first patch in 2.0.4 beta so i asked tons of times about it and every answer i got is intentional

[shut juniper]

it is still useful for someone who need 5 mins to get in and finish the challenge

[main ice]

stasis is by far the weakest mission imo

[undone pagoda]

Boons are weaker -> you need more boons -> you get less pulls/qol
Equilibrium just solves boons problem, it doesn't care about a boon nerf. As long as they are needed, it is always insanely good

[main ice]

is they made so that it makes you lose no time in and out of challenges it would be good

[unreal badger]

equilibrium is nerfed by the change

but it’s still overpowered so it doesn’t matter

[undone pagoda]

Equilibrium is buffed

[shut juniper]

it is not a equili buff it is just force u to more rely on it

[unreal badger]

if that’s what you think then sure but it just isn’t

[main ice]

wish they would add a mission reroll or smth

[unreal badger]

dark gray should be reworked to choose where each beacon should be placed on the map

[main ice]

wdym?

[unreal badger]

but to do that they need to give a name to every beacon spot which might be 2 much dev rime

[main ice]

seems to complicated

[unreal badger]

maybe

better than the trash it is right now

[shut juniper]

they want dgrey become a risky thing so nah i guess

[main ice]

dgrey should be reworked tho

[unreal badger]

tealy said he is open to hear dark gray rework becausee they want to change it or something

[main ice]

just a glorified purple at this point

[undone pagoda]

Remove all missions and get that many plus one random ones

[shut juniper]

open to here but only for risky

they dont want it become smth like white or rainbow

[royal charm]

im just not gonna answer

[shut juniper]

the more tealy answered the more mistake made

[royal charm]

no cause ive already answered like 6 times

[shut juniper]

answer what

[shut juniper]

tealy do devs know about the time objective reset bug?

[main ice]

yeah that is aids

[shut juniper]

also there's a bug i just found which give u negative boon (cant wait to abuse negative lb/lq which probably break the calculation )

the time objective is too easy they should increase it to 20mins smth (so i can abuse it better )

[unreal badger]

lol negative lq could actually mess it up

[shut juniper]

idk the formula but negative value is never a good thing in code

[unreal badger]

unless they added a safe

which is 2lines of code at most

[shut juniper]

too much dev time

gb in the first mission...

[unreal badger]

open chests 😬

[shut juniper]

open chest but i have 0 ritual and equili

imagine this is the 4th mission

[undone pagoda]

Honestly not bad as 1st if you had rainbow + sac pulls

[shut juniper]

i have only like 30 sac

[unreal badger]

it’s bad bc it’d chest open

[shut juniper]

and it will kill me

[unreal badger]

but atleast it’s not offered beacons

[undone pagoda]

Not sure if you are going "it is too consistent" or "it is too long" but both don't matter/untrue if you just want to cash out on sac pulls

[shut juniper]

...

idk why but the mythic rate in 2.0.4 is weird

[worn jacinth]

I wouldn't be too surprised. 40*6 (Assuming no extra from sacs) pulls is pretty solid, especially for a 24-ish minute run

[shut juniper]

but that's only 240 epulls?

[worn jacinth]

"only"

Y'all should stop using the previous patches' rates you'll just disapoint yourself

[shut juniper]

how many epulls do u think for average mythic?

[shut juniper]

huh?

[waxen briar]

https://tenor.com/view/minion-any-questions-question-question-mark-confused-asking-gif-15404852

[shut juniper]

are u saying that 2.0.3 and 2.0.4 should have different rate?

[worn jacinth]

Considering how in 2.0.3 you'd reset until orange -> rainbow and go for that vaqua -> vgrey and vdgrey stack and get something like 80 * 10-11 for a shorter run or 200 or more * 10-11 pulls (And that was too much), I'd say so

[shut juniper]

devs dont agree with u

[worn jacinth]

Oh I didn't mean mythic rate

I meant pulls/time spent rate. VERY different

[shut juniper]

yeah because it is suppose to be a mythic supply nerf?

they want to nerf the epulls so u get less mythic

[worn jacinth]

... And thus leading to my surprise when you said only 240 pulls

[waxen briar]

the problem is that he GOT a mythic from those 240 pulls

[worn jacinth]

and ?

[shut juniper]

240 RAW pulls is alot but not 240 epulls

[waxen briar]

this was around 240 epulls as well smth like 90 with 2 rerrolls

[shut juniper]

bro are u getting mythics like average 300 epulls

[worn jacinth]

To that I say, it's not that lucky

Lucky, sure, but not like unexpected

[shut juniper]

not that lucky --> lucky

[waxen briar]

its not unexpected, its just anoying

[worn jacinth]

It's not like you hit the jackpot at a casino or something

[waxen briar]

you do a shitty unfun run -> you get a mythic that at this point is as common as dirt and doesnt even feel rewarding therefore its 2x unfun

[shut juniper]

lr is full of rng now

[waxen briar]

its just awfull all around

[shut juniper]

when do i feel like i hit a jackpot?

[waxen briar]

both lootruning and getting a mythic being an unfun and shitty experience is just 🤯

atleast before 2.0.3 getting a mythic was fun while lring was shitty, now both are shitty

[shut juniper]

2.0.3 : consistent mythic
2.0.4 : random mythic

[waxen briar]

at this point i dont even care about getting a mythic nearly as much as i want to have the ability to get a good run ATLEAST once every 20-30 lootruns that are a complete failure

[shut juniper]

if 2.0.4 is out before 2.0.3 it would be a good patch

imagine u should skip half of the mythic to earn more profit here

[worn jacinth]

A lot to unpack here.

The main gist I'm getting here from you two is that if you don't have a great setup, you shouldn't even bother, run is trash, doesn't match the high you were expecting, out with the run at once, and any extras you get from an "unfinished run" is underserved (Nevermind that it was designed to be random to begin with)
And, understandably so, it was the mentality that you would adopt when lootruns first came out in 2.0.3, since a run getting the early orange into rainbow was oh so powerful, especially in comparison to a run that doesn't get it.

Sure, you could nerf the mythic rates as a bandaid fix (And they still could use one imo), but it doesn't fix a very important issue that you are currently having, that "shit runs" aren't worth your time
Feeling that way will make you want to chase only the highs, and hit that surrender button the moment things don't go your way. Which, as it turns out, doesn't happen as often in 2.0.4 compared to 2.0.3. And that pisses you off

2.0.4 took a step in the right direction, by making the average run much more consistent (Less reliance on orange, much easier to get rainbow, greys being almost guaranteed to show up with their run-altering missions, sacrifice as a whole ...), with that slight chance of a high to keep you invested

This comes to a point I want to make : The average run, with missions in their current state, just isn't interesting/varied enough, likely by the virtue of only having so many missions to choose from. Being able to see literally half the missions on an aqua boosted vgrey for the second mission is very silly to me

You want a system based on missions ? Expand on it. You have a good playing field to start with. Half of them are uninteresting filler, and the other half that aren't are a great starting point

[shut juniper]

i literally cant see what u trying to say

[worn jacinth]

You want me to be direct ? Fine. Both you and marqn are expecting too much out of lootrun as far as rewards go.

[waxen briar]

the average run is way more inconsistent hello?

in 2.0.3 i could get a god run every 10-15 lootruns
in 2.0.4 ive had 2 god runs in over 100 lootruns

[worn jacinth]

I speak of average runs. You speak of getting to a god run

[waxen briar]

i dont think you get it at all, i want LESS rewards, i want rewards to feel like REWARDS rather than junk

[shut juniper]

"Both you and marqn are expecting too much out of lootrun as far as rewards go." ok so we should get 3 le every 3hours in lr?

[waxen briar]

and at the same time i want lootruns to actualy be less rng when it comes to making a good run

[shut juniper]

no one ever said that reward is the problem of 2.0.4

[worn jacinth]

And I, on the contrary, think that you don't need as much to get a good run going. Now, god run with all the perfect missions ? No, and I doubt they'll ever get to that point.

[shut juniper]

so what is average run?

0 ritual equili?

[waxen briar]

for you a good run is 40 pulls 5 rerolls so i dont think our definition of a good run are the same

[worn jacinth]

And that is sort of what I am getting at. Also, totally leaving out the time it took to get that run, which is another factor if you want to optimize.

[worn jacinth]

Getting 2-4 rolls that I'll finish at around 40-ish challenges, Probably more if I get equilibrium or cleansing ritual with a sac or something else if it shows up.

You don't need all the pieces to get something decent going

[shut juniper]

ok so u dont fking care about sacrifice with these run?

[worn jacinth]

"with a sac or something else"

2 out of the 11? missions are sac. Aqua boosting your vgreys will likely get you one of them

[shut juniper]

that's literally a different playstyle?

[shut juniper]

that's what i m doing now and u think it is good?

ignore half of the mythics in the pool?

[waxen briar]

thing is i find long lootruns more fun, as i said i dont care about the reward as much

[undone pagoda]

If you just want a long lr it is pretty easy to get one going

[waxen briar]

when i say long i dont mean long as in 10 hours long for 100 challenges cuz i dont have equilibrium

[worn jacinth]

I find it a bit confusing because of statements like these, and your obsession over getting specific missions

[shut juniper]

the reason why i said 2.0.4 is good if it release before 2.0.3 because 2.0.3 literally destroyed the mythic market and then they changed it immediately

[worn jacinth]

The missions can and will correlate to different reward results. Both are somewhat related

[shut juniper]

if u do sacrifice run it is more profit to ignore like half of those mythics with like 30le like wtf?

half of the mythics in pool 30le to 1stx and 2 or 3 of them 6stx what?

[worn jacinth]

Honestly ? yes

Especially if you have a big chain going

[shut juniper]

so u think this is good?

this is a good thing for lr?

i am not asking is this more profit

[worn jacinth]

Nono I know what you mean. The fact that you skip a reward for a potentially better one

Even if it's a mythic.

[shut juniper]

and this is literally a bullshit because u have to rng check with beacon --> rng check with mission --> rng check with mythic
wtf is this?

even u got a mythic from the chest u still need a good mythic

[worn jacinth]

I doubt it's a problem lootruns can, or should, fix.

That's a problem of "Even the most rare items can be worthless because of demand"

And short of cherry-picking which mythics should show up depending on the current demand, I doubt you could really change much

[shut juniper]

is there any mythics like 600% price different with others?

[worn jacinth]

Now, flooding the market with mythics didn't help that much, and lootruns being released in their initial state was a BIG mistake. The beta was over too quickly

[shut juniper]

actually not 600% it is 30le and 6-7stx

[waxen briar]

wdym cant do much, all they gota do is litteraly reduce mythic rates

[shut juniper]

yeah instead of nerfing mission and making shit change

[worn jacinth]

That doesn't help the current situation much now does it

[shut juniper]

they are not nerfing mythic supply they are nerfing the fun of lr

[worn jacinth]

Damage is already done

Also, as I said earlier, "Sure, you could nerf the mythic rates as a bandaid fix (And they still could use one imo), but it doesn't fix a very important issue that you are currently having, that "shit runs" aren't worth your time"

You'd still reset for the same shit

[shut juniper]

yes because it is after all these nerfs of 2.0.4 lr?

[worn jacinth]

A very tricky problem to solve when the end result has an impact on another system

[waxen briar]

like back before 2.0.3 average mythic was 1 every ~1000-2000 chests opened deppending on how full the world is and 1000-2000 chests would take like idk 10 hours of runing and thats only for the more skilled players with warp/idol it probably would take me personaly more time

now average mythic is 1 every 1500-1700 pulls which you could get in less than 2 hours during 2.0.3 and now in 2.0.4 its weird cuz its just insane rng all around but mythics are still easy to get so thats that

[shut juniper]

all the changes in lr now is making the gap between average or shit run and god run even larger

forced rng check

[waxen briar]

it doesnt take a genius to realise that mythics are WAY more common than before and YET salted claims the mythic rates are roughly the same if not less common than before 2.0.3

which makes me even more upset cuz he is just speaking complete bullshit

[shut juniper]

mythics not in pool still have roughly the same rate

[waxen briar]

real (not me getting 3 mythics within 500 chests a week ago)

[shut juniper]

tbh i rather they keep nerfing lr now so every mission is totally trash and god run can only give u 100 epulls

[worn jacinth]

I would disagree on that point. The average run is better overall. But at this point we'll run in circles

[shut juniper]

so everyone forced to do materialism disco run

[worn jacinth]

I do wonder how he analyzed the stats

Was it like "Average mythic per player" or something like that

[shut juniper]

u think this is good for average run???????????????

[worn jacinth]

This is a nerf to an outlier

[waxen briar]

it probably included people that are absolutely clueless about the new system and would spam 10-20 epull runs which skewed the data he got

[worn jacinth]

The rest was relatively unchanged, save for the boon nerfs

[worn jacinth]

Which would definitely explain why the mythic rate wasn't alarming straight away to him

[shut juniper]

huh? u dont get gb after certain sacrifice ?

[worn jacinth]

Not always. I sometimes get the mythic in the middle of chaining sacs

[shut juniper]

before the nerf i can take gb when i see it because it wont kill me anyway if i dont have red challenge
now it is literally a trash consuming my mission slot

[worn jacinth]

Which often have high roller in them to still do some epulls stuff

[shut juniper]

yeah take ur gaia/archangel/obli

happy with ur 2-4 hours sac for 30le

[worn jacinth]

Bold of you to assume I go for long runs

[shut juniper]

ur sac chain till mythic only cost u 30 mins?

[worn jacinth]

Sometimes, yeah

[shut juniper]

are u doing the chain?

30 mins is not even a chain it is just one run

[worn jacinth]

When the first sac run is done, it doesn't take long to see what missions you get, and see if you continue the chain or try and maximise the run

[shut juniper]

so u can do 2 runs in 30mins?

i wonder how u do ur sac chain

[worn jacinth]

Oh a detail I left out. Each sac run is 30 minutes

After the first. You don't benefit from extending too much beyond a certain point anyways

[shut juniper]

so u dont skip 30le mythic or what?

or everytime u see mythic is consistent catac/warp ?

[worn jacinth]

When I was hunting shiny cata I did. And I'd see them (The lower value mythics) very often

Which also sometimes makes me think I should just spam medium length runs

I'd also do Materialism runs when going for sac chain starts because funny box

[shut juniper]

i bet u love playing card game

u want rng as much as possible

[worn jacinth]

Very bold assumption. And no.

[worn jacinth]

Altho to you it might have seemed like otherwise, I was merely explaining what the lootrun system was achieving, and sort of why it clashed with how you viewed it as a whole

[shut juniper]

nah u explained nothing

[waxen briar]

the only thing it achieved was making mythics no longer feel like rewards

[worn jacinth]

Mate, I don't think I needed to do anything for you to get to that point

[shut juniper]

it is more like "oh hey i got a valuable mythic!! is it beacuse i am good at lr? NO it is just pure luck"

[worn jacinth]

And, allow me to ask : Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive ?

[waxen briar]

?

[shut juniper]

what two?

[worn jacinth]

For this statement, which was very much referring to skill and luck

[shut juniper]

if u trying to make part of the lr is luck then fine
but if u making some part of the system that have huge impact to the whole lr and force u to get luck? no

in 2.0.3 i can just get any mythic i see because there's is no sacrifice
and in 2.0.4 i have to sacrifice even i see a mythic if i want more profit?

[worn jacinth]

While I would argue that it's not quite binary in the current state of missions as for which ones are good to get or no, I do agree that it could use more moments where your decisions matter

Way too much filler not enough flash

[shut juniper]

can u do a average run without need of rng in 2.0.4 without sac?

sac is the only consistent playstyle in lr now and it forced u to skip mythics sometimes like wtf

[worn jacinth]

I'd probably transition to a materialism run, if it was offered. Or probably do a middle-length run with High Roller and force as many curses as I can without going for too long a run

Something to make the 15-ish challenges or so worth something

Settling over that something is definitely not for everyone

[unreal badger]

I actually bothered reading since you were bringing up good points and then you said “2.0.4 took a step in the right direction by making the average run much more consistent” which is such a laughable joke

[worn jacinth]

By that point, I moreso meant that you don't have to reset a billion times for orange -> rainbow

extra beacon, mission system that almost always shows up with the greys

Execution could be argued, however

[unreal badger]

mission system that is completely unbalanced rewards wise, objective wise, and is buggy, then bug is (according to danny) titled “feature”

yeah, you are not right about this one chief

[worn jacinth]

Well that's what they are trying now with the gambling beast nerf right

[unreal badger]

or well not the missions ar e buggy but the gray

[worn jacinth]

Trying to fix their mess after that first step

[worn jacinth]

The one where grey won't show up despite not skipping it when it does show up ?

I did a bug report on that. If it's intended, it wasn't too clear on that point specifically

And I didn't get a response for the bug report so 🤷‍♂️

[shut juniper]

tbh 99% of the bug report is useless (ok maybe not 99% but most of the time useless)

talking in the chat directly is actually much more useful

[worn jacinth]

I've done both. Apparently bug reports are more seen but eh

[shut juniper]

they cant solve it if ur bug report not detail enough (like every steps of the bug reproduce)

[worn jacinth]

I definitely overexplained it

You should know by the big wall of text I just did for this thread rofl

[shut juniper]

u overexplain what

tbh that grey is not even a bug

if u really want a bug fix asap u should just camp zeer in chat and tell him when he's randomly hello chat

[worn jacinth]

... Guess I'm not getting through to you on that matter. In any case, that whole grey situation is 100% a miscommunication thing

[unreal badger]

it’s clearly a bug but welp

[shut juniper]

a bug of patch note?

[unreal badger]

im just not gonna comment on that anymore since it’s very obviously a bug

[shut juniper]

if it is a bug why they dont fix it when they 100% know about it?

maybe it is a bug for player but i am 100% sure it is not a bug for them

[worn jacinth]

Looking back on this, I can see where a lot of the confusion comes from. 2.0.4 put in place the mission system which doesn't have a pre-requisite like getting the orange -> rainbow to get a run going that could be considered worthwhile. Your run won't end on challenge 12 because you only found one red to extend your run for like 18 pulls max, you are more likely to get something fine. Getting the actual high roll ? Much harder, I'll agree

(Not like you'd want to extend a run that didn't get the orange past challenge like 5 in 2.0.3 but you get the idea, I think)

[unreal badger]

this is like saying why didn’t they fix other bugs despite being told about them for days and then even pushing them to live

[shut juniper]

no i am pretty sure they are not trying to bugfix it, even they "fix" it it is just a change

[worn jacinth]

Side note : They would definitely get a more meaningful beta if it wasn't restricted to hero+. That way there would be more then like 5 players max online after the first day

[shut juniper]

at least from what tealy told after i tell him about the grey "bug" , salted said that it is intentional

[shut juniper]

it is NOT restricted to hero anymore

[worn jacinth]

Oh yeah it's the silverbull sub thing

[shut juniper]

so it is 100% not because not enough test

[worn jacinth]

I doubt many even bothered to sub just for that

[shut juniper]

i did 50 lr in beta and found tons of bugs in beta and they can still let them push to live

[worn jacinth]

You weren't alone in there

[shut juniper]

that's why i said bug report is useless

100% of the bug that i know is fixed after i told them in the chat (even someone made a bug report of it)

[worn jacinth]

Another side note : I derailed the thread over what one would consider a good lr which is subjective anyways oops

As for some feedback relevant to the thread, I think some of the bouncy clouds in the sky lootrun could be adjusted. At 'least one I think sends you straight into the bottom of a floating island, and another near the Ahmsord void submarine sends you in a way where you stop over the void and need to cast a movement spell fast or you just plummet into the void. I can go and send coords if needed. @royal charm I believe this is more in your side of things ?

[cerulean oxide]

Oh btw I’m probably going to make a forums post about this but regardless have you considered giving the defend objects nametags and healthbars?

[undone pagoda]

Card games are less rng than lootruns xd

[rancid oasis]

It wont be anymore

because someone decided to make it trigger even if it would end the lr

[unreal badger]

2.0.4 hotfix num3: gambling beast is removed

[waxen briar]

i finaly got equilibrium after 50 years and then red and white decided to not appear 4 times in a row therefore ending my run

i'd have more luck going to a casino and spining a roulette or smth

[waxen briar]

even shiny monster + warp + cata dont seem worth going through this garbage anymore ngl

[unreal badger]

i personaly dont go for the rewards bc i find all the other camps bad so i only run mh

[unborn vault]

cleansing greed
backup beat
missions I can count having taken exactly once

[waxen briar]

i use warp so sky is perfectly fine for me

[unreal badger]

in mh i can do every challenge less than 1min and i dont have to suffer while playing because traversing in corkus and sky is awful, and se is just kinda annoying overall

id use warp if arcanist wasnt so blatantly better than lbender and rwalker but i want to be able to use heal

so basically i dont use my warp

[waxen briar]

heal potions are broken

[unreal badger]

i dont like using pots

[waxen briar]

il never understand that but alright

[unreal badger]

i like using hpr

on assassin and warrior i play ewf and its nice

[waxen briar]

well tbf those classes also take less damage than mage cuz 1 they can fly and 2 higher base defense

ok well one of my issues with sky is this, where the heck did he go

ok it was stuck in a tree branch way bellow

im never gona get that 1 boon am i

[unreal badger]

i mean they also deal a lot of damage, idk how much dps warpanist can get but i do just fine with idol

[waxen briar]

idc much about dmg, i just play what i enjoy and thats warpanist

but if we talk about long runs then trift warp should out dps idol easily if thats what you use

[waxen briar]

as if long runs exist 😂

[undone pagoda]

rots > pots

[waxen briar]

spoiler alert i did not get blue, another reason i fucking hate 2.0.4 lootruns

its literaly rng to get good missions and then rng to get a good mission task and then rng to complete that fucking task

and then that same rng 3 more times per run

[unreal badger]

yup

[undone pagoda]

okay but this is ultimate sac like wtf was in the pick

[unborn vault]

You already had a 2 hour argument over this this morning, you don't need to continue complaining

[waxen briar]

stasis and materialism

and idk what else but it wasnt worth remembering

[unreal badger]

me when players want to have fun so they complain about game turning from fun to unfun 🤯

[undone pagoda]

materialism is 100% the pick lol

[waxen briar]

i think inner peace?

[waxen briar]

no cuz i dont have equilibrium so its useless

[unreal badger]

materialism can be good simply bc it eliminates a useless beacon

[waxen briar]

i just wanted the second sacrafice so i can sacrafice a few pulls atleast

but nah ima just play smth else this is just garbage

[undone pagoda]

It is basically permanent +1 beacon choice and also more chances to get boхes

[unreal badger]

not getting blue for 5 chals is wild tho especially with how aqua red and green work now x)

[waxen briar]

my record is not completing a get boon task untill challenge 15 or 16 so like 11 challenges

[undone pagoda]

second sac is not that good either tbh

[unreal badger]

most of my runs i dont even get to complete more than 2 missions XD

[waxen briar]

yeah but i wanted it so i can just spam aqua purple till i cant anymore and end the run since it was garbage anyway

[unreal badger]

so what did we do.. we complained about objectives being braindead

and what did salted do ? make objectives worse XD

this is funny for salteed because he gets to troll the playerbase and laugh abt it

[undone pagoda]

my main issue with rng complaints is that people make bad choices and complain they get rolled

[unreal badger]

getting an objective u literally cant complete isnt up to you

[waxen briar]

in that situation ultimate sac was the best choice i could have goten so idk what you tryna say

[undone pagoda]

it is up to you to judge how likely are you going to complete an objective

[unreal badger]

oh yea i guess maybe sometimes i should judge that the next beacon should only spawn blue

[waxen briar]

not when one moment you get 10 blues in a row and the next blue stops appearing for 5 challenges in a row

[unreal badger]

thanks for the info brother ^_^

[undone pagoda]

me when 6 common beacons dont all appear together in 3 choices 🤯
it is bs that sometimes you need to do a lot for a shit mission, it is not bs that you get punished for picking a mission with bs reqs and get punished

[waxen briar]

me when its 3 choices 10 times in a row 🤯

like? i got multiple purples (died on 4 purples as well cuz i had too many curses but i couldnt be bothered to care)

and never got my second blue

[undone pagoda]

I think blue is the most rare (by a small margin) of 6 common beacons (Purp, red, green, aqua, yellow, blue)
and red/green/aqua become more common a bit later into the run

[waxen briar]

idk if its a small margin t bh
ive had way too much troubles with boon tasks

[undone pagoda]

like, i see 2 of red/aqua/green + some other common beacon really frequently tbh

[unreal badger]

the issue ur facing is not bad luck its just poor structure of how beacnos are spawning, im in a run right now and havent had blue and orange for over 20 challenges

and this isnt a one time thing, so dont tlell me im experiencing bad luck

something is blatantly rigged with how beacons spawn

[main ice]

lol cleansing is 1 of the best and backup beat is rly good with gambling beast

[waxen briar]

he said cleansing greed not cleansing ritual

[main ice]

oh

mb

still wrong tho

stasis is worse than literally any other mission

[unborn vault]

Stasis with red beacons is actually really nice
You spend a lot more of your lootrun time traveling than fighting, so being able to cut that cost out makes red spam much more effective

[main ice]

thats just not true

travel time doesnt take that long

what class u use?

[unborn vault]

I've tried every single class
Fastest is (expectedly) warp mage
And even then, a good amount of challenges may take just as long as it does to get there
(Dependent on where the challenge is, of course)

[shut juniper]

tbh I never try to get big red beacon

[unborn vault]

but what if you did!

[shut juniper]

skill issue

I only take 2 or 4 red so i can get free time after that

[unborn vault]

to be honest this is still a fairly niche case
I would still agree Stasis is on the
(ahem.)
lower end of missions

[shut juniper]

stasis is for people who need 2 mins to travel

[undone pagoda]

stasis is just so much better than bbeat for gbeast synergy

Well, used to be, at least. bbeat is worse than materialism for beacon control, too

Also stasis should now prevent ultsac from eating boons, because ultsac seems to work differently now (i love shadowpatches)

[rancid oasis]

Infernal impulse idol users

[royal charm]

good

[rancid oasis]

wasnt a compliment

[royal charm]

god forbid the run ender ends your run

[violet hamlet]

honestly i like the change a lot
having like 20 rerolls was way to overpowered
and like it is literally called gambling beast, and now it’s a bit of a gamble to get it
a well deserved change imo

[frozen matrix]

Ok but the “beast” part still super sucks if u haven’t sac before hand

I still think the idea of G beast is heavily flawed with the small enough of other challenges in the pool

Y’all got rid of the only other challenge to give + end rewards so equalib curse stacking is the only way to get high amount of pulls

[undone pagoda]

Cleansing can give 250+ too lol

[frozen matrix]

Yes but cleanse runs are much slower and not fun for me

(Forgot about it Ngl)

[frozen matrix]

tealy

smoke guys do way too much dmg still

challange 10 and im gettiung instattly one shot at 40k eph by a single shot of their arrow storm attack

why do u give mobs who have aim bot do extreme amouts of dmg it makes no sense to me

[frozen matrix]

im on shaman so im not sure where the 60% is applied before or after ehp is calculated

idk its rlly annoying to me either making a super tanky build and do no dmg and taking 3 hrs to lr or trying to make something semi balanced but im just getting one shot but challange 15. idk how to say it other than, this this the part i hate so much about lring. it feels so terrible to start a new run imo

i rlly rlly rlly wonder what build developers used ngl

like if i feel this way using mythics how tf is someone in morph suppose to lr ngl

idk im being a baby again

but fuck i hate getting one shot

it rlly makes me not want to play the game

[unborn vault]

Yeah it's weird still
The only spots in MH where it feels like mobs are still too strong are the Ashbelchers in the smoke slay, and The Fragmented Creature in Dragon Delta

Probably not widespread an issue enough to be super concerned

[frozen matrix]

@royal charm fr in the nicest way possible will u ever release the builds lring is “balanced around”

I rlly don’t understand how smoke challange is balanced at all unless you have max agility max defense and like 80k ehp

[waxen briar]

yeah there is a reason i drop every lootrun that i dont get equilibrium

mobs just become batshit insanely strong otherwise, and i have a good warp build with all tomes

[frozen matrix]

I just agree Ngl

[frozen matrix]

Or like tealy am I fundamentally miss understanding how I’m supposed to do that camp. Any time I actually “do” it is cause I’m standing behind one of the pillars cheesing the mobs cause their projectiles can’t go through blocks but mine can

[fair fog]

fart

[royal charm]

nope

[unreal badger]

probably because you dont play warrior

i got to challenge 90 yesterday with warrior with like ~12 boons since i just stopped getting blues

got a good objective with gbeast so it worked in my favor

but i didnt even need it because on my 2nd rr (which i had with high roller) i rolled idol with 98 pulls..

although at chal90 ish it got really annoying because the mobs damage was so high and i had no hp/agi/def boons

but im playing efw warrior

[waxen briar]

yeah maybe, some anoying ass slay challenges tend to have mobs that fly in the air that i CANNOT damage as an arcanist unless i use melee which does like no damage so if im not stacked on boons it takes forever

[unreal badger]

(also my warrior has no armor tomes other than a legendary lvl 60 one so it can be even better)

[unreal badger]

yep[, lootruns are like, blatantly favored towards assassin and warrior its insane

[waxen briar]

i mean mage still wins on mobility atleast

[unreal badger]

id like to lootrun with archer but in the time i would complete 1 run i would have completed 5 with warrior

[unreal badger]

erm i only play mh so idol is actually better in most scenarios than warp in there

but yeah everywhere else warp is far better

[waxen briar]

yeah i have yet to try mh a single time, sky loot is just too good rn

[unreal badger]

i actually havent ran anything other than mh since 2.0.4 came out

i did try corkus and sky once but they were so dang awful compared to mh

[waxen briar]

if i cope with the disgusting flying mobs then sky is not that bad

[unreal badger]

its been (3?) weeks and propeller hasnt came out yet so im waiting to see maybe ill switch back to assassin

although makingi a good propeller build is kinda hard

for my playstyle, it will probably only work with nulli becasue weathered just sucks and i dont wanna play air archetype wtih nirvana

maybe other option is grimtrap but im thinking i might get destroyed without boons

maybe i can use my rev with a good grimtrap

[frozen matrix]

bro 180k eph im getting one shot by dragon boy still. i wanna be ncie but wtf do you mean these camps have been balanced

both fcuking suck honestl;y

like what the fuck im over 10 blocks away and just get evaporated

atleaste add a fucking anamatyion so i know what im dying to

[royal charm]

the drake?

[frozen matrix]

yta

[royal charm]

do you have negative air/water def?

[frozen matrix]

slight -water but seriousl;y

its so annoying

180k is fuicking crazy to get one shot

[royal charm]

yeah thats strange, it doesn't deal that much dmg

[frozen matrix]

im on challange 20 and have 2 curses

[waxen briar]

is that in mh? cuz in sky i know that nothing can possibly deal that much dmg (i have like 50-55k ehp no defense and even when agi fails im fine)

[frozen matrix]

like fr scale that back so much plz

ya its MH

purposly tried to get health and def boons and still cant not get one shot

[royal charm]

ill test it some more, if you could record next time you have that challenge would be appreciated

[frozen matrix]

i still dont even know the hit box size i try to stay so far away and i just die out of no where

kk

[royal charm]

@frozen matrix what gear were you using?

[frozen matrix]

Can I just send Wynn builder link

[frosty bough]

it's morph

becausr mroph op

[royal charm]

sure

[frozen matrix]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder?v=5#8_06W0QU0jn0Qq0W70vI0Ux0Ji0Qs0t1V-G04221g001004fI10009I00z0z0+0+0+0+0-
WynnBuilder build:

Brainwash
Discoverer
Sagittarius
Slayer
Old Keeper's Ring
Ingress
Vindicator
Contrast
Olympic []

[royal charm]

so

[frozen matrix]

tome for skill point

[royal charm]

permafrost drake deals mainly water dmg

[frozen matrix]

i put water powder on armor

[royal charm]

its heavy explosion would deal ~4200-5000 dmg base

[frozen matrix]

how is that scaing to liek 35-50k?

[royal charm]

it wouldnt be able to 1 shot you unless you had <half HP

[frozen matrix]

even later in the run when i had like 300k ehp i finally was not one shot by it for the first time ever

[royal charm]

is it possible you had mob dmg curses

[frozen matrix]

let me upload clip

so im not exaggerating

https://youtu.be/1Py4O3pZw5c

ill lr more todat and record that camp more

the 3 times i actially record are the times im able to do it i swear ...

if im not dumb thats like 60% curse, challange 40, doing like 180k ehp on heavy exlosion and thats with agility procing too most likley

[dreamy dust]

is it intentional for cleasning ritual to not extend challenge cap anymore

[shut juniper]

yes i guess

it should not over the cap at the first place

[undone pagoda]

shadow fixes amirite

[slow wyvern]

i see that they changed gamba without changing the description, typical wynn behavior. what does it do now?

for me atleast it seems to have taken all my time even when i didnt have enough on my timer.

[shut juniper]

yeah it can kill u now

[slow wyvern]

i guess i understand why they did it but its annoying because now its even better to go for the meta missions (highroller->cleansing->equal->ultimate) for a godly perfect run, as long as you dont loose 2m at a time u dont loose a boon to ultimate.

there shouldnt be meta missions it should be balanced.

[waxen briar]

haha that combo exists..?

[shut juniper]

now u need god rng to get good objective gb which is totally bullshit

[waxen briar]

ive gone over 100 lootruns and never goten cleansing + equilibrium with either redemption or gambling beast its just not possible i swear

[slow wyvern]

u dont go for that anymore its terrible

redemption is just ultimate for slow newbies

[shut juniper]

tbh if i have ritual and equili i would rather have double sac instead of highroller and ult sac

[waxen briar]

as if we ever have the luxury of choice

[waxen briar]

sure but the point is ive never goten cleansing + equilibrium with anything other than materialism

[shut juniper]

u can find one after 100runs i promised

[slow wyvern]

its possible just god rng

[waxen briar]

and thats why lootruns are absolute dog shit right now

somehow more and more rng with each update

[shut juniper]

i did 0 lr for the past 2 days

i need motivation and passion

[slow wyvern]

i got cata yesterday , invested 4 stx into rolling it with my corks n stuff and rolled it to 4 just for it to be a shit cata that i sold for 2stx so lr gave me -2stx

[waxen briar]

its so funy how things just keep repeating
they release smth, the players ask for certain changes
then they release entirely different changes that might as well be the oposite of what the players want and the players keep complaining

[waxen briar]

or in some cases the players dont even want changes cuz things are somewhat fine but then they break everything with some hotfixes

[shut juniper]

i dont know why the beta so short
the last day of the beta immediately got a patch and is totally different than any other days

[slow wyvern]

cause its LMG all over again

[waxen briar]

the beta is clearly just for bugfixes (and not all bugs get fixed)
player feedback doesnt matter at all ever

[frozen matrix]

Kinda agree

Seems like all my feedback they did like the opposite of

[shut juniper]

yeah that's what i feel, i did 50 runs test in beta and all the things that i did matter are only bugfixes

[slow wyvern]

i would want to aqua stack into grey if it was mathing properly

but its almost pointless

[shut juniper]

actually can they just remove gb so i have higher chance to get other missions?

[slow wyvern]

unless ofc u get cleaning first time and then have the headroom to take the beacon

[slow wyvern]

yes plz

[unreal badger]

💀

this would be the last straw

[shut juniper]

now 99% of the situation it is just trolling u and kill u

[slow wyvern]

i say they rebalance some of the missions to be near as good as the cleansing equi combo that everybody goes for

[waxen briar]

if only it mattered what we suggested lol

[slow wyvern]

forget about beacon rng because they fixed it and you can get a good beacon run just about every run if you are decent build. its the missions that are so gosh darn centered around rng now

[shut juniper]

it is not beacon rng got fixed it is just moved into missions(and even worse than beacon rng)

[slow wyvern]

id rather have the old way and have a godly grey stack every other run again

[shut juniper]

anyway i dont want to lr anymore lets wait for a few days and see what can change

[slow wyvern]

too late im mid gamba run

[shut juniper]

i dont want to lr in current state even there's god pool in sky

[waxen briar]

its only going to get worse dont worry

[slow wyvern]

but i wanted some food in me before clenching up and taking it on

[shut juniper]

also the augments market is so stupid, definitely some people try to mani it

[slow wyvern]

im gonna laugh when its a god pool in se and peoples funny builds wont work there that work in sky

cant wait for the crying to ensue

[waxen briar]

my warp seems to work for both

[shut juniper]

warp is invulnerable

[slow wyvern]

my nully crabby stardust seems to work but i need boons in se

[frozen matrix]

@royal charm ok plz plz plz dont nerf. the "kill mods every 30 sec for x buff" genuilly felt rlly rlly fun (especially since it was for defense for me) it made the lr feel alot more "dynamic" but also i could waste time to prepare for a camp by killing stuff to get more tanky. it felt like actual fun risk reward

[royal charm]

i dont balance boons

[frozen matrix]

also maybe pass on the word but i semi dont want this to get fixed either. shaman summons get catagortized as enemys so walk speed curse and attack speed curse are actually major buffs to summoner

it makes it rlly funny tho

i dont think enemy dmg gets applied to them but im not entirly sure

[waxen briar]

quick edit your message and say that its very unfun before salted sees it and instantly fixes it

[frozen matrix]

Fr it’s actually awful ans makes me not want to play the game but still want me to buy crates

Also Ngl I really wish I could make some changes to “stealing” it being caped at 5 em per mob semi sucks imo especially on camps that have just “1 big mob”

[slow wyvern]

its capped at 5 cause people afk with hpr and stealing

i think they should delete the new lootrunning system. they tried to remove rng by adding more rng

[violet hamlet]

since when were they trying to remove rng wth

that's like the core of lootrunning

[slow wyvern]

since they added 3 beacons on the start

[violet hamlet]

adding an extra beacon does not equal no rng

where are you getting this from

[slow wyvern]

actually you do have a point. mythic system is rng opening chests is rng, so everything in wynncraft should be rng.

[slow wyvern]

tealy said something about reducing the rng at one point but my conclusion from it was that he was either making a joke or just trolling.

[violet hamlet]

yeah

[slow wyvern]

who knows maybe he was serious about it and i hope he does something to fix lootrunning

BALANCE MISSIONS

[violet hamlet]

i don’t think lring needs fixing, just balancing

yeah exactly
you probs shouldn’t have to get 1 mission for your run to be worth doing

[slow wyvern]

i think redemption should be removed / reworked to be balanced with ultimate sac. also i think that when u get ultimate sacrifice it should only work below 15 minutes because it completely mucks up any green beacon stacking if you have gamba. I would make these changes and u should tell tealy to make them until he does it

in a nutshell, gamba and ulti are incompatible rn and shouldn't be

but also equali and cleansing are too op and something somewhere in the script needs to change

maybe they should add a beacon that is kinda like rainbow beacon but basically what it does is bypass your mission requirements. you get a mission and it instantly procs the effects, but it would be just as rare or rarer then rainbow beacon @royal charm do these changes.

[frozen matrix]

This is where I gorgus

[slow wyvern]

also remove the skill issue from se

nowhere else has a skill check

[royal charm]

one of the design reasons behind 2.0.4 was making more beacon variety for longer

ex orange beacons

[slow wyvern]

also im curious, why was salted so keen to add a skill check to se but not the other ones? why did he direct this change?

[royal charm]

you'll have to be more specific, what did salted do to se?

[slow wyvern]

he directed you guys to add the skill check.

[royal charm]

ah right the skill check

well you'll have to ask him about that

[slow wyvern]

if the intention was to make it harder then all the other lrs it worked

but if balance was what you went for it didnt really work

[royal charm]

balance of what?

[slow wyvern]

balance of skill

[royal charm]

oh no, thats not the goal, thats why we added the check