Constructive feedback

[karmic bane]

https://tenor.com/view/dono-wall-gif-24048347

Context: aqua -> rainbow nerfed with no communication

[stoic shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/cry-about-it-cry-about-it-meme-gif-20184012

[karmic bane]

i am

its not like talking constructively has any effect

[slate raptor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/773108055558455296/1124245709873488032/stay_mad.gif

[slate raptor]

ok thats kinda true ill also be mad

(how did aqua > rainbow get nerfed btw
(like what was the nerf

[karmic bane]

rainbow resets aqua stack

[slate raptor]

fuck.

[karmic bane]

for the record, there is this thread that keeps track of people's runs, and i've submitted like 20 full runs i did. out of all of them only 2 had 14+ rerolls, a.k.a. had the aqua rainbow thing.

[jagged tide]

Why make aqua stacking harder when you could have just nerfed mythic rates 😭 now it’s even harder to get longer runs

[placid walrus]

oh that was fixed? nice

was probably just unintended just like rerolls resetting it

[true vine]

lmao

i’m pretty sure it just got fixed late

[karmic bane]

semantics

[stoic shadow]

…….

Bro’s pulling the “Semantics, straw man, appeal to authority figure”

[stoic shadow]

Considering a lot of people agree that this was a fix and not a nerf, I think this is a fine exception lmao

[karmic bane]

i don't think it matters what you call it, just what it means for the game

[true vine]

idk not being able to get extra rng from aqua to rainbow to grey is technically a nerf but also i really do not care

[stoic shadow]

I don’t car either Linny

[true vine]

wynncraft is Ruined

[karmic bane]

makes every run the same pretty much, considering 10 rr is standard

[true vine]

yea i think we just need a lot of different beacons to the point where u can’t really guarantee shit

but good runs still happen bla bla

having the same one path to a good run got stale for me i will not lie

[junior fjord]

I don’t think no longer being able to stack aqua more than twice by taking rainbow is a bad thing (if anything it seems silly that it was a super rare and powerful way to bypass the cap) but the man talking to brick wall gif is indeed very representative of player staff communication

[topaz parcel]

I think the only people calling this a “fix” are people who don’t lr, on god everyone I see who actually lr is mad about this me included

[placid walrus]

I lootrun

rainbow allowing aquas to stack past 2 was stupid

[topaz parcel]

Why it’s rare so it’s not like it impacts very many runs

There a total of 2 runs on all of Marq data that aqau stack rainbow into grey. Like let someone have a small chance of doing something cool

[placid walrus]

it’s kind of annoying that rainbow ends the aqua streak though, but maybe there was no easy way to make it save aqua streak without making aquas show up again

[topaz parcel]

Bru why fuck over way more aquas just to nerf an extreme niche lucky outcome that breaks the “cap” by like 400 pulls max

[placid walrus]

exactly, it’s crazy rare

[topaz parcel]

So why ruin more aquas over something that rare

[placid walrus]

too rare

[topaz parcel]

You’ll lose your aqua stack way more often than you could have abused it before

[placid walrus]

that much rng is just stupid

[topaz parcel]

Logic not making sense

It’s not like people are relying on aqua stack rainbow?!?

It’s like removing shinys cause it’s to much rng like wat

[placid walrus]

400? Bruh, it literally could have almost doubled the amount of rerolls

[topaz parcel]

Excuse me…..

The max someone got was 14….. like look at the data omg

I hate when people just talk out of their ass it makes me so annoyed

[placid walrus]

but theoretically it can give 18

[topaz parcel]

NO ONE DID THOUGH

[placid walrus]

well it wasn’t even a thing for very long soooo

and pretty sure there’s plenty of people that aren’t contributing data

[topaz parcel]

You’d need v aqua into v aqua into rainbow into v aqua v aqua into grey. Like your are talking about balancing around an extremely neiche outcome

It makes me want to call you stupid af

[placid walrus]

rng in chest is good, but crazy rng on top of that during the lootrun is dumb

[topaz parcel]

I just don’t respect your logic. The more you talk the dumber you sound to me

[placid walrus]

it was literally unintended, tf u mean “balancing”

aquas were meant to cap at 2 stacked

[topaz parcel]

You haven’t explained at all this statement and just are going on the premises you just “right” it’s not stupid and you haven’t said a single point to prove why it is besides it’s “rare”. Something being rare doesn’t give it the justification to just be deleted or removed.

Imo it’s not stupid and continuing to remove the “fun ways” you can break the convention caps will just lead to boring routing

Like having 4 extra rerolls is gonna break the system. That’s dumb af logic holy hell

[placid walrus]

I’m not saying it’s gonna break the system, I’m just saying it’s something powerful that relies on WAY TOO MUCH RNG

[topaz parcel]

WHY IS HAVING RARE POWERFUL THINGS BAD HOLY SHIT

remove mythics at that point omg

[placid walrus]

mythics are not a good comparison seeing as they’re literally the reward of lootruns

so it’s powerful rng on top of powerful rng

[topaz parcel]

You literally can’t comprehend what I’m saying to you. You are so set on thinking your right you can’t even admit when your logic just fundamentally makes no sense. Continue to contradict yourself. I think continuing to nerf lr is lame and taking out the nieche fun parts of pathing with lead to more boring lootruns

[placid walrus]

holy hell lmao

[fading bone]

theres no way that it wasn't obvious to everyone that it was a bug, and it was also obvious to everyone that it was going to get fixed at somepoint, out of all the things to complain about why this?

it's probably the least impactful thing they've done to lootruns yet, it wasn't shadownerfed, it was clearly a bug and wasn't the intended interaction between aqua and rainbow. So they fixed it.

[topaz parcel]

I wouldn’t call that a bug. Rainbows fully removing the effect of aquas seems like a bug….

[fading bone]

you wouldn't call that a bug???

[topaz parcel]

I would say the ability to get aquas after a rainbow might be a bug but rainbows fully removing the effect of aqua, you think that is intended?!?

[fading bone]

no and I assume it will probably be fixed too lol

just like how I assumed aqua->aqua->rainbow->vaqua->vaqua would get fixed

[topaz parcel]

I’m just saying I don’t think that “fix” is that necessary it’s such a niech thing to come up

[fading bone]

there is so many more things in this world to be mad about I wouldn't die on this hill personally

[topaz parcel]

It’s lame to nerf the fun parts of lr where you had a chance to break caps

[fading bone]

bug fixes != nerfs

[karmic bane]

im not sure why people are so fixated on whether it is intended or not, it was good for the game

[fading bone]

it doesn't matter for the game?

[topaz parcel]

This so what I’m trying to say

[fading bone]

I mean it's something that happens like once every 50 runs

[placid walrus]

it really wasn’t

[karmic bane]

it adds a layer of strategy and introduces a concept of rare god runs

[topaz parcel]

I was though

[fading bone]

it's not a layer of strategy lol

it's just getting lucky when your stacking your orange

[topaz parcel]

Like wommby ur just wrong, it’s something to chase!!

It add excitement to pathing and planning

[karmic bane]

have you ever done it? i feel like you have no experience with it

[placid walrus]

if you think that crazy rng is good for lootruns, would you support orange being rarer?

[fading bone]

I have over 200 lootruns across my archer and my warrior I think I'm pretty informed

I'd have more but the last two weeks chests have been dogshit

[topaz parcel]

The “rush” of having it line up feels like “winning the lottery” it’s a fun gamble and as we have seen it has ONLY WORKED OUT 2 TIMES

In all of Marq data only 2 runs have gotten the mythic 14 reroll from breaking the aqua cap

Like holy fuck

[fading bone]

yeah idk doesn't seem like a big deal

only 2 runs of the hundreds reported why even care that the bug got fixed

[topaz parcel]

So why remove the chance of getting it, it’s like removing mama zombies

[fading bone]

because the game wasn't working right obviously

thats the point it wasn't intended

[topaz parcel]

Cause it’s rare and something to “chase” or look forward too while lr, which is “boring”

[fading bone]

no one was chasing that, thats been doing hundreds of runs its just another thing that happens in your run sometimes

[topaz parcel]

Yes and it’s exciting when it happens !

[fading bone]

every time it's happened to me it's really been whatever

[topaz parcel]

My entire logic is the logic of mythics, if you don’t get excited by mythics that’s a you thing, but by design “or circumstance” the same principle was applied to aqua stack rainbow

It’s like finding the mythic version of a lootrun, idk what’s hard to understand about that

[fading bone]

I mean idk whats hard for you to understand that it was a bug that needed to be fixed, have you ever gotten one even, like I really don't get why you care about this super niche thing

[topaz parcel]

This

I didn’t “need to be fixed” who was begging for it to be fixed?

[fading creek]

basically a free dopamine hit that probably wont happen to people and wont really break balance that much because of how rare it is

[topaz parcel]

Fr

[fading creek]

i think the only real probem that could h ave come from this was someone finding a bug or exploit to pull it off consistently or smth

[fading bone]

I mean with enough beacon choices you can do it consistently

[fading creek]

orange beacons are already rare anyways

[fading bone]

I mean personally i don't run runs that aren't fed good orange luck

[placid walrus]

yeah too rare, they are hopefully being made more common

and 3 options base at grandmaster (please)

[fading creek]

you would need +9 options to guarantee (i think? cuz there wouldnt be any other options) a rainbow beacon, ocould probably get away with less if you just got lucky and got a rainbow beacon from your ridiclious amout of options

which would require gtting multiple vaquas and voranges in a row wihtout a raiinbow n the first place 💀

[fading bone]

I mean if you consider the fact that after 2 aquas you loose aqua as an option and gray can't show up twice in a row it becomes consistent around 6, you can also bleed your greens and reds out of the pool too

[topaz parcel]

Well if anyone knows a constant way to get 9+ options lmk but otherwise o think it’s unreasonable to balance all LR around people getting god runs, made Shitty mid runs feel better and let people do their god runs

[fading creek]

but if u rid your greens and reds out of the pool at the start then u prob wont be able to get a god run anyways

[fading bone]

what?

[fading creek]

dam i sucka t woridng

[fading bone]

well no I know what you're saying it's just not right

[topaz parcel]

Bleeding out your red and greens doesn’t 100% you can aqua stack, there’s a ton of things you have to keep track of

[fading creek]

i just think at that point it wouldnt be worth it since it would take too long to bleed them out, and at that point the run might be too hard to continue
and u still have to pray for good rng for the rainbow after 2 aquas

[topaz parcel]

Especially if you don’t get good boons, we haven’t even talked about boon luck here

[fading creek]

i think sweaty ass people (who are liely the only people to try to attmpt this in the firs place) woould be able to get pretty far without boons anywyas

but idk i just run with "dps" guardian

[fading bone]

with 6 beacons which isn't crazy rare you could bleed all your greens and reds and have only aqua,yellow,blue,purple,white,gray,rainbow,dgray in pool. you can only see gray twice in a row so you can exclude it and you won't see aqua meaning that there are only 6 options in the pool meaning you can hit it every time with only 6 beacon options

[topaz parcel]

Eeek by like challange 15-20 my build is almost 100% outscaled in lutho even if I cheese things the dps bosses just have to much health

[topaz parcel]

How r u constantly getting 6 options

That’s the first thing needs to be addressed

[fading bone]

it's not consistent but I don't do runs with under 5 options because they are a waste of time

I don't know why you are tbh

[fading creek]

wouldnt u want to keep gray int he pool anyways tho
its the best thing to boost bc rerolls

[topaz parcel]

So your basing all your data off of “selective” runs

[fading bone]

what data that was just logic?

someone said unless you could make it consistent, and Im saying 6 beacon choices is not rare and you can make it consistent with that

[topaz parcel]

Yes all your logic is based on the selective runs “you think are good” while I’m basing my logic on all the mid tier runs I’ve had to do to also get god runs

[fading bone]

and yeah I only do selective runs because thats the optimal way to play the game

[fading creek]

how many resets does it even take to get 5 options

cuz to get 6 options in the first place u need at least 1 vorange boosted by an aqua and then a vorange /aqua boosted orange? idk m bad at math
my brainn is not brainning

[fading bone]

it would require a double aqua boosted vorange, double aqua boosted normal orange + orange

orange is way more common earlier so getting either one of those scenarios isn't crazy

[topaz parcel]

Lmao ok tell me you only do runs with v aqua into orange……. Like bru I won’t respect your “logic” if the only data you collect are those runs

[fading bone]

I only do those runs because it's the highest pulls/hr . Sorry I value my time I guess

I mean ask a lot of people putting in many lootruns like myself and they only play out aqua boosted orange runs too

[topaz parcel]

It’s just like admit you have a warped perception lmao

[fading bone]

like I said sorry I don't want to waste my time

[fading creek]

i mean people going for aqau -> aqua -> raibow -> two vaquas into vgrey prob are gunan be sweaty anyways
i just think that getting two aquas/vaqua into vorange or two aquas going into orange + orange sounds pretty rare/hard to get

[fading bone]

yeah people playing runs casually will literally never see that

[topaz parcel]

Idk to go back to my main point it’s so nieche why remove it

[fading creek]

and unless we get some data telling us how long it would take to get one of those runs then we wont know how hard is it to get stupid lucky consisently

[topaz parcel]

Wtf is the point besides making the people who liked it mad

[fading bone]

because at the end of the day it was a bug and it was always going to get patched, I really don't know how you didn't see this coming?

[fading creek]

wishful thinking that bug would becomme funny rare feature tbh

it would have been so awesome(it would have been so cool)

[fading bone]

I mean so maybe instead of making some dogshit argument that it was shadownerfed, instead maybe this post should be making it an intended feature

[fading creek]

intended rare feature that is really rare to get and is hard to get consistently (probably)

shadow patching stuff is just anwyays

[topaz parcel]

Again why the fuck do people care of something is called a “bug” or a “feature”

[fading bone]

Because extra negativity over miniscule things is not going to make anyone want to pay any attention to you other than chatters

[fading creek]

anwyas my brain has nw been deepfried so i will go play battlecats on autopiliot instead of arguing

[topaz parcel]

Like this is just so weird to me

[fading bone]

yeah because your heads dented ig

got that negative mindset

[topaz parcel]

Weird response

[fading creek]

me when i insult my opps and expect them to take me seriously

[fading bone]

me when I use opps in the wynncraft discord

🤓

[fading creek]

true!

[topaz parcel]

My face when the person has selective data for their conclusion and then logically contradicts themselves before just using adhominom attacks to try to sound smart…

But I guess my head is the one with the dent lmao

[fading bone]

you literally said it was weird to try and make your argument positive in nature to attract better positive responses, I think your brain might actually be dented it's not an adhom.

I never logically contradicted myself either

My logic followed using the optimal route to play that you can consistently abuse a bug

[topaz parcel]

Your logic is if something labels as a “bug” it’s bad. My logic is if it’s fun who cares what its called

[topaz parcel]

That doesn’t really seem like it, optimum would be always aqua rainbow stacking but you are arguing against it. Right now you are contradicting yourself lmao

Like fucking memes lmao

[fading bone]

I don't know if you are reading what I am saying denthead

[topaz parcel]

And you are blind to your own contradictions

[fading bone]

if you read what I said it was consistent to aqua stack rainbows playing the optimal way

[topaz parcel]

It’s so funny to see you contradict yourself in real time

[fading bone]

is this me not saying "optimum would be always aqua rainbow stacking in a logical form"

[topaz parcel]

I only “optimal runs”

Like you are so funny

[fading bone]

because I would think that logically it would follow that if a then b(you get 6 choices, then you can always make this aqua beacon rainbow strat happen) and a is the optimal strategy, then it follows that b is a result of the optimal strategy. meaning this is what im saying.

[karmic bane]

funny you mention that, because there is a post where i discuss this and say a bunch of times why it is a good feature

hence the brick wall meme

[fading creek]

dam bros doing 4 d chess with these threads

[karmic bane]

to have constructive communication first its requred to have communication, and thats my critique

[fading creek]

LMFAO
rmeinds me of this

[topaz parcel]

Bro loaded his alt to try to make fun of me when I wasn’t the one contradicting myself

[dense meadow]

yes the alt he made 4 years ago

[fading creek]

dam my computer too slow to load my gifs whatever i dont give a swag

[topaz parcel]

Bro didn’t even read the thread

[topaz parcel]

Bro doesn’t even know how to talk he’s stuck on picture books still

[dense meadow]

i read the thread

[fading creek]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/378349056633602058/950460104707289109/how_you_felt_after_saying_thats.gif

oh wait wrong person
whatever still funny gif

[dense meadow]

after reading this thread i have reached the conclusion that i am right and you are wrong, gg

[fading creek]

🤯

[stoic shadow]

This thread devolved into a shitshow

[fading creek]

too much ttrolling

[fading bone]

all I had to do was bring my alt gg

have fun living in a world where only one person can disagree with you peace

[topaz parcel]

You know someone is wrong when they just want to derail the conversation….

[stoic shadow]

Ong this discussion is dead leave it

[fading bone]

yeah idk if the brickwall was a good approach for that, I don't think it sets the right tone for a good thoughtful conversation, I do think it being a bug turned intended feature is a lot more positive then whatever this is

[junior fjord]

this is #1019649786799996980 you shouldnt expect thoughtful conversations here or for your opinion to matter in the eyes of ct

[topaz parcel]

Imo Ct should care about the feelings of the “general/avg player base”

[junior fjord]

i agree, im just saying how it is though

[stoic shadow]

More recent CT have been taking more feedback into consideration though

These more recent CT also have been playing Wynn for years so it makes sense that they pay more attention

But also CT have said a few times that they didn’t do ability tree and don’t do ability tree

So we have to hope someone on whatever balance team they have sees it

[junior fjord]

(they wont

[stoic shadow]

And if they do they probably won’t listen anyways lmao, I think Salted and Zeer are the balancing people, I know Salted at least did a lot of atree stuff

And I’ve seen Zeer say something in #1019649786799996980 once then disappear into the ether once more

[junior fjord]

And if they do they probably won’t listen anyways lmao,

yeah this part is true

[stoic shadow]

I think the only thing they listen to is if the general sentiment is “buff” or “nerf”, they don’t seem to listen to players with hundreds or even thousands of hours on that class and what they have to say about how it could be done

Like I’ve seen some good assassin ideas from players with a lot of assassin playtime but it’s kind of ignored lmao

I think CT gets a lot of blame for not listening, when it’s sometimes not even up to them in the first place

[junior fjord]

yeah, they typically only really respond to the very generalist and popular opinions of the community when a class or specific archetype is lacking, and very rarely actually go in depth

[stoic shadow]

I think the one time I saw a specific suggestion be taken into account was when a part of Acrobat got nerfed to the ground because another archetype used that part to be op

And even then it only got half un-nerfed lmao, poor guys

Or when they over-nerfed anything and everything involved with the Trapper Sharpshooter build that did 2mil damage on a no crafteds spring build

Sharpshooter was left in a state of dis-repair afterwards

[junior fjord]

sharp was definitely not over nerfed

[stoic shadow]

Oh yea I forgot that Archer in general was overtuned so bringing any of its archetypes down made them seem much worse

[karmic bane]

idea of twain's arc piercing actually was on the forum

[stoic shadow]

Is Twain’s Arc still not worth using?

I know it’s gotten some changes to where you won’t actively hurt yourself by taking it

[karmic bane]

i think its super worth, thats what im playing

[solid bay]

That's just the intended way I think?

More of a bugfix than a nerf

[placid walrus]

is there no way to make rainbow not reset aquas without making aqua show up again after the rainbow?

[true vine]

just unfix the bug

[placid walrus]

I mean, its kinda silly that aqua doesnt do anything to rainbow but still gets reset by it, I thought how it worked originally was intended
and being able to stack past 2 with rainbow was an oversight

[true vine]

yea thats also an oversight id imagine

[placid walrus]

so if possible, rainbow should not reset the aqua stack, and just make it so aqua doesn't show up if you pick the rainbow

feels kinda bad to waste 2 aquas if you get a rainbow

[topaz parcel]

real!