Spring is a literal legendary tier item bruh, it is outclassed by ttide or az in nearly all builds, and lacks a unique defining factor that lets it stand out from the legendaries. Even supposed "bad" mythics like inferno, singu, or collapse have much higher base dps than their legendary counterparts. If they don't, like nirvana/idol, they have a unique gimmick like a major id or some id that stands out that puts them at a a mythic level. Spring has neither base dps nor a major id bruh. It should either have its base increased by 60-80 or have a major id like sorcery or something.
#Increase Spring base dps or give it a gimmick
spark mason
normal matrix
or az
well that isnt uncommon (az best mythic ngl)
spark mason
Still ridiculous its outclassed by a mythic 20 levels lower 😭 and az also has more defence too 💀
glossy fog
spring and aquarius are one in the same
and as such are bad for the same reasons
where the absolute only thing they have is an impressive amount of mana regen
give spring it's -3rd cost back, or something
spark mason
U actually dont even need that much sustain on a spring build since the high intel makes up for it, more than 60/5 is enough which is just spring + anam or spring + aquarius basically
spark mason
Bro
Most my posts make sense u just constantly think my ideas suck for some reason bruh
simple scroll
@hushed parrot aaaand hes back to speaking nonsense
hushed parrot
💀
feral swift
honestly good change
either this or turn -dex down to like -15 or -10 🙏
or just remove -dex and add bomb cost
hushed garden
Or add some spell damage as a stat or something
spark mason
or just remove -dex and add bomb cost
Idk bro -dex should be unchanged due to negative thundet dmg seems to be spring’s drawback. but maybe add like bomb cost or increase base
proposal
+50 base dps and -1 costs bruh
And worse thunder dmg
current spring:
glossy fog
you know, I'd like to, but wynncustom is having a bad day right now I guess and breaks trying to add major IDs
spark mason
I feel like it should be either a ID gimmick, or increased base, not both. Like nirvana/idol for example. Shit base for both but a powerful ids. The changes I made was an increase in damages but no significant changes to IDs
but a major id would be cool since mythic bows are kinda lacking major ids
static lichen
cata moment
spark mason
If it needs a buff it doesn’t need a huge buff, since we’re compareing it to crafteds and legendaries primarily. Crafted bows are simply too strong (cspring is compareable to freedom, etc not just Spring) I think a good balance is to nerf cspring/ttide slightly and buff spring slightly to bring it to mythic level
Its not simply spring being weak, its a dynamic between spring being weak and alternative legendaries/crafteds being too strong
arctic ermine
if your changing anything about spring just take away its -dexterity. Adding new ids is pretty messy and anything more would make spring very powerful; its already not that bad anymore post lost spirit nerf.
spark mason
if your changing anything about spring just take away its -dexterity. Adding new...
Seems pretty clear to me spring is suppose to be specifically anti-thunder damage so this doesn’t make sense. Elemental limitations are perfectly ok in my opinion bruh
arctic ermine
losing 35% thunder damage is livable, losing that on top of dexterity is what makes it bad
spring works well with trapper after its buff anyways so it has a niche even if trapper still inst raid meta.
spark mason
Even with a moderate base increase of 50 and slight sp bonus, applying 3 w6 powders will let spring cross 1000 base dps and at least make it viable in the endgame
At the very least it will be mythic level, maybe low quality mythic level but still mythic level
spark mason
losing 35% thunder damage is livable, losing that on top of dexterity is what ma...
Thunder limitation imo should be consistent. It just force u to build differently which allows for more diversity in mythic bows (gma hpr for example). Its the extremely low base rn that makes spring shit
scarlet ether
give it sorcery or transcendence 
arctic ermine
I mean -thunder damage already discourages you a lot. I tried putting in a higher base damage spring into a build and it was pretty insane, just a bit more attack raises the DPS up by nearly 6k on your main attacks here (https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder/?v=4#8_01d0px0Ja0QjCR-19i9i9i4N4N9c9W91CR-19i9i9i4N4N9c9W910T40OM01gCI-100006sprong02504010305909036-70B07440-6200F30M0201Y0N30Q0201u0T010F0U011e0V010F0j0109d110106Q13023110Z0t+m2S+w2C1g10009I10039I10009I1007fI1004fI0z0z0+0+0+0+0-lFMr2FLyY1)
like you can argue that that build is not broken for sure, I don't even think spring would become meta if it were to receive a buff that big. But it is pretty extreme and something that theres not really president for doing to a mythic (unless we want to open the door for rebalancing every mythic, which might not be a bad idea)
spark mason
I mean -thunder damage already discourages you a lot. I tried putting in a highe...
-thunder damage simply discourages u to use the thunder element in builds. ETW is not the only playstyle there is.
spark mason
like you can argue that that build is not broken for sure, I don't even think sp...
The buff i proposed was a +50 to base dps, and some minor sp boosts, not a +180 base dps
+180 is far too big of a change in my opnion
Nvm its +220 in that custom item, not +180 mb
arctic ermine
+50 is pretty modest but thats not enough to make spring good ether
spark mason
It is an illusion. Part of the reason why spring is perceived as shit rn is due to the surrounding legendaries and crafteds being to strong. The other part of the equation is Spring is quite shit as is.
I proposed a modest buff of 50 base and 10 sp bonus to bring Spring up to at least a mythic level, while nerfing crafted and legendary alternatives slightly. (Cspring can compete with nearly all mythic bows)
So basically legendary bows like ttide and crafted weapons like cspring blur the line between legendary and mythic too much
(Not saying spring isn’t shit tho it certainly needs a modest buff at the very least)
hushed parrot
isnt spring base like 900+ with powders
spark mason
938 bro
hushed parrot
idk about u but that aint low
spark mason
Yea for a dps mythic it is extremely low
hushed parrot
its water mythic
spark mason
Most are 1100+
arctic ermine
well a lot of mythic bows havge 4 powder slots
I guess you could give spring a 4th powder slot too
hushed parrot
just give spring raw spell and call it a day real
scarlet ether
idk about u but that aint low
its legit like 10-20 more base dps than crafted bow
glossy fog
partially still feel like spring is just too
boring
it's a mana battery with a small bit of water%
every single other mythic even relating to water has some unique functionality
(barring maybe lament but still)
scarlet ether
its legit like 10-20 more base dps than crafted bow
and crafted bow can get better/equal ids while being able to actually build with dex
scarlet ether
partially still feel like spring is just too
boring
it's a mana battery with a s...
tbh i think spring could be interesting (- dex so you cant just slap it onto any build) if it had something that made it actually good
sorcery/transcendence 
glossy fog
70% new slow and weaken ID
hushed parrot
weaken actually goes hard on spring
glossy fog
given the -dex I have to assume spring isn't totally meant to be full dps
so why not just make it hyper debuff enemies instead
(it's even lore accurate!)
scarlet ether
yeah, that would even fit with its lore
hushed parrot
lore accurate but id rather weaken over slow ngl
slow does literally nothing so like
glossy fog
knockback%
scarlet ether
slow does literally nothing so like
is it bugged?
hushed parrot
think about it this way
if it worked how much would it do
glossy fog
about that, someone tell me how anti-casualty knockback% works
does negative knockback make enemies fly towards you again
glossy fog
think about it this way
if it worked how much would it do
ascertain lore continuity
piss off one Hunted player
hushed parrot
lmao
spark mason
bro new spring major ID frostbite arrow bomb will block all hpr
lore accurate jajajajajaja
hushed parrot
reduce def 💀
No.
spark mason
fixed it bro
hushed parrot
block hpr doesnt really do much either
spark mason
then add raw spell ez fix bro
scarlet ether
give spring +crit damage id
hushed parrot
on god
signal wedge
New Major ID for arrow storm called Blizzard: Aslong as more than 100 arrows from the arrow storm hit their enemy it can be recasted fire no mana and this can be chained.
hushed parrot
nah
signal wedge
Good idea tho
hushed parrot
its not
spark mason
it not
feral swift
give spring the flashfreeze major id fire creep now applies 50% slowness to enemies for 2 seconds, refreshed with each damage tick
honestly not a bad idea especially if cci is removed on most bosses (excluding raid bosses)
spark mason
fire slows enemies good logic
static lichen
give spring the flashfreeze major id fire creep now applies 50% slowness to enem...
except thats already a major ID for mage 💀
distant harbor
Spring should give +50 defense
hushed parrot
dude slowing enemies literally does nothing stop suggesting it
glossy fog
it would def be less useful than a weaken or something but
surely archer would benefit from a heavy slowdown effect
particularly if the enemy doesnt have a movement ability
signal wedge
How about fuck the major Id we just remove spring from the game
warped otter
New Major ID for arrow storm called Blizzard: Aslong as more than 100 arrows fro...
+1 week added
warped otter
give spring the flashfreeze major id fire creep now applies 50% slowness to enem...
+2 weeks added
I'm curious how many years it'll take for the ims to take a look at spring with everyone suggesting random ass major ids
spark mason
I'm curious how many years it'll take for the ims to take a look at spring with ...
What makes u say this, I doubt they even give a shit about the feedback in the first place unless its a gamebreaking bug
They'd probably look over this thread in 30 seconds and decide meh and move on but thats my theory
spark mason
He's clearly joking 😭 💀
warped otter
Yeah yeah, its every time spring gets suggested a majorid, he'll postpone it for another year
warped otter
Also I'm not gonna lie, I kinda agree with the ims that just slapping majorids on mythics is a pretty lame way to make them "unique"
I remember Touhoku having that take at least (though this could be classic spreading misinformation), which I can definitely see
spark mason
Also I'm not gonna lie, I kinda agree with the ims that just slapping majorids o...
Its not a way to make them unique. It’s a way to make them viable and useable.
Nirvana for example. Without its major id its a terrible weapon and far worse than its crafted counterpart
Idol does not have a major id but it has a unique attribute of -charge cost. Without this unique attribute it will be much worse than its crafted counterpart as well.
We simply say ‘unique’ not to refer to the mythic, but to a specific attribute that will bring the mythic to a mythic level
hushed parrot
if you want spring buff thats unlucky we are in summer
spark mason
Yea thats common knowledge
Its also highly likely there may not be a spring buff, many ct simply dont seem to give a shit about small problems like this
It is a far bigger priority to focus on game mechanics and additions rather than qol and small changes since better mechanics improve retention which improve revenue, which is really the whole point of wynn. qol and minor item reworks have very little impact on revenue whatsoever.
inner fossil
maybe make spring do more damage than briars
a bow of a tier lower, same level, and much better dps
warped otter
a bow of a tier lower, same level, and much better dps
What
Get a build that compares both briars and spring because I'm genuinely interested
inner fossil
morph
I have both, have tested both, and briars can survive in TNA while spring cannot
Same challenges, up until the point where I died due to less mr
spark mason
briars is not meant to be a dps weapon and its overall dps is also much lower than spring. Better comparison would be ttide (level 85 legendary) or Az (level 74 mythic) or cspriing (level 100 crafted)
Even fking az outperforms spring, it is over 20 levels lower than spring, it also has better defence than spring
completely ridiculous
warped otter
briars is not meant to be a dps weapon and its overall dps is also much lower th...
Spring also isn't meant to be a pure dps weapon
What are you on about 🤨
spark mason
Spring also isn't meant to be a pure dps weapon
It's clearly not meant to be a tank weapon either. Its limited to ewa or ewf playstyles. Compare it to strati or az or even freedom.
All those mythics above have greater ehp than spring, and also more damage. Which leaves spring completely useless and not viable in any way
Even using Gale's force you get much greater ehp, walkspeed, and similar damage at the cost of slightly lower mana sustains.
warped otter
What about this screams "omg its meant to deal big damage"
Also 39mr is definitely not what I'd consider "low"
Its not stupid like Divzers 39ms but almost 8mv is still pretty nice
spark mason
What about this screams "omg its meant to deal big damage"
You have not addressed my argument at all. I did not simply compare dps but I compared all aspects of the weapon to its mythics competitors. I am saying other mythics and even legendaries and crafteds are better in literally every other way possible. (freedom az strati ttide cspring gma - list continues)
warped otter
You have not addressed my argument at all. I did not simply compare dps but I co...
You said spring is meant to be a dps weapon
warped otter
Hold up lemme just check it
I remember someone saying its supposed to be a damage weapon for some reason
spark mason
Hold up lemme just check it
I remember someone saying its supposed to be a damag...
Even if Spring isn't supposed to be a damage weapon, that isn't even a point. My point is that spring is terrible for literally everything.
warped otter
I also said that 39mr is definitely not "slightly lower" compared to 0 in your counterpoint to gales force
warped otter
Its not a way to make them unique. It’s a way to make them viable and useable.
Also to adress this point
There are many ways you can buff a weapon than just slapping a majorid on them
spark mason
I also said that 39mr is definitely not "slightly lower" compared to 0 in your c...
You clearly use different builds. With gale's force you obviously need to use an extra gears or 2 to bring it up to a constant mana spring has. It still outperforms spring.
spark mason
Also to adress this point
There are many ways you can buff a weapon than just sl...
Major id was never my first proposal.
The conversation simply shifted to one about major ids
warped otter
Uhuh....
I was about to say "Why did you amp the -td%" But I forgot bomb now deals thunder damage
warped otter
I think
It also affects arrow storm but you don't use spring for bolt anyways
Also "Mythic Bows are lacking in majorids"
Meanwhile Mythic Reliks:
warped otter
I think
It also affects arrow storm but you don't use spring for bolt anyways
Wait is phantom ray thunder damage actually
Hmmmmmmmm
I'll check rq
Nop
fathom zenith
We should buff Spring (Its my only mythic)
warped otter
We should buff Spring (Its my only mythic)
We should nerf Spring (Its one of my 2 mythics)
The 2nd one I use just for flexing
distant harbor
Give it 50 defense and 5000 health