Vanish

[torn cobalt]

Can we have back old vanish please. New vanish feels so clunky with the cooldown and not being able to see particles of where the person is. Also make clones vanish with the player seriously why do pets vanish with the player but clones don’t

A way to do this would be to just add a node somewhere down shadestepper that removes vanish cooldown

[uneven ridge]

hunted suggestion spotted

unironically 1.20 assassin felt cleaner though ngl

[twin wagon]

Thats because spin attack had a better clean(se)

[torn cobalt]

No !!!

It just feels really clunky

Also the clones one like cmon how is that not already a thing

Also buff ritualist it’s literally so bad rn 😭

[uneven ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/i-know-shiba-smiling-shiba-happy-shiba-gif-22259086

[torn cobalt]

This is a linnyflower moment of all time,,,

[slate pewter]

I don’t like new vanish but bringing back old Vanish is even worse

Do you have any idea how broken old vanish was

[torn cobalt]

With the new mana system it would probably be a lot more balanced

[alpine badger]

ritualist is legit fine

[cold jay]

Idk vanish is ok (shadestepper is kind of fine as is), but I play with weathered. Kinda also sucks that all healing was removed from base vanish as well. Idk. Ritualist is also in a weird spot.

[alpine badger]

also yes 1.20 assassin > all 3 archetypes

[cold jay]

1.20 assassin had some interesting flow to it, I think that tried getting immitated on shadestepper but failed because vanish has a cooldown, and the no health regen penalty. Right now I don't care as much as I did, because I kind of just got used to it.

[peak cradle]

Put some more vanish-refreshing stuffs on shadestepper, trickster's vanish is fine as it is (sometimes it's even negative since if you're tank it makes you lose aggro)
Silent killer is incredibly inconsistent due to number of minions fluctuating

[alpine badger]

it just felt way better over all as well, all spells
and dont get me started on how much better old smoke bomb looked, especially egg bomb

[cold jay]

I honeslty don't remember old smoke bomb at all, aside from the egg.

[alpine badger]

god tier spell

[tidal fiber]

It would be nice if vanish wasn’t tied to the first dash after cooldown, and instead there was a different way to trigger it, so you’d have better control over when you vanish, and that way vanish would feel like an actual ability instead of an inconsistent one

Have it tied to something like a shift while dashing instead

[pearl topaz]

They should remove cooldown but bring mana drain on it I think

And like, to prevent abuse, move the cooldown to surprise strike

[slate pewter]

Then what will Weathered do

[alpine badger]

what it always did, not drain mana during vanish

[slate pewter]

In other words it’s all back to 1.20 vanish

[alpine badger]

which is good

[pearl topaz]

almost, with the only exception being that damage boost is on cooldown to prevent vanish backstab combos

[slate pewter]

Mhm

But as much as I hate to say it Vanishing for extremely long periods of time is kinda a bit too op in a game-design sense

Even if I really want it

[pearl topaz]

you won't be able to heal anyways, so I think it will be way more balanced version of it

also mana steal is kinda harder to come by as well

[tidal fiber]

My assassin build has lots of mana steal

I play acrobat…

[odd juniper]

this is a cute dog

:3

[uneven ridge]

it’s true

[gleaming parrot]

hot take maybe but I think vanish is completely fine. 5 seconds cooldown is more then reasonable for how strong it is (and you can use sandbagging to tactically damage yourself to make it 2 seconds, a great choice for the 3 players still playing assassin heavy melee in 2.0). Shadesteppers has a lot of issues but vanish isnt one of them and giving trickster infinite vanish would break the game.

Plus with silent killer most of the time vanish might as well not have a cooldown its only during boss fights (where vanish is at its strongest) were you notice its one drawback

[azure tiger]

just readd vanish flight frfr 😭

[buoyant folio]

vanish is completely fine
i can agree on the part where if you wanna dash to close a distance you may be forced into using your vanish so a shift-vanish could be cool but otherwise the cooldown is balanced
take sangbagging and silent killer if u wanna use vanish more

[versed steeple]

hi

[mellow vine]

Yes, please remove the vanish cooldown. I’m not saying remove the surprise strike cooldown but please please tell whoever is in charge of ability management to remove the damn cooldown on going invisible, it would make me forever happy

[mellow vine]

Yeah…

[mellow vine]

Honestly if you reverted the visuals on that and stopped the bomb from sliding across the floor (it still does that for me, even with the hitbox sometimes) assassin would feel more satisfying again

I just don’t like how they changed assassin, all the other classes became cooler (at least to some degree) but assassin just became worse

[uneven ridge]

i will not be doing that but i too would want invisibility whenever so i don’t blame you

[mellow vine]

Except acrobat

[cold jay]

What version of the game are playing on, the bomb stopped sliding post 2.0.2.

[mellow vine]

Acrobat is awesome tbf

[uneven ridge]

also yeah bombs are fixed lol

[mellow vine]

2.0.2 it still slides across the floor before triggering and has incredibly janky hitboxes

[cold jay]

I will agree on the janky hitboxes.

[twin wagon]

Ok but vanish speed without vanish

[mellow vine]

Just let us not get fucked by burstfire mobs for unvanishing please

[cold jay]

I think that was the purpose of dissolution, though as you have probably discovered that abilitiy is as good as useless.

[mellow vine]

Be me
Normal build without 120%+ ws
Walk up to a mob in vanish
Unvanish
Try to get away
Dash or any normal movement is not fast enough
Lose half my hitpoints to burstfire

Conclusion > Acrobat is the only viable archetype

Also vanish and dash cooldown when greg

[cold jay]

All archetypes are viable, it's just shadestepper is very build specific. Trickster is fine as well (especially when comboed with acrobat).

Shadestepper does need to be looked at though, because I swear I am the only player.

[mellow vine]

Sure 1.5m quakes are funny but it won’t stop me from being unable to destroy mildly more powerful ranged mobs

[cold jay]

You haven't played spell shadestepper yet? I don't use melee shadestepper.

[mellow vine]

I didn’t enjoy it since I don’t have a weathered

[cold jay]

That's fair, weathered is the best in slot weapon for shadestepper right now. Outside of that it's either crafted dagger made from 5 agullo beaks and an aspect of the void, or slider as the only alternatives. (slider being kinda eh). Also nirvana is kinda good I guess as well.

[frozen dew]

me with oblivion shadestepper:
wait how is nirvana good

[cold jay]

Moontower. Just don't melee, it won't end well.

[mellow vine]

Anyways I have inferno and so I’ll stick to quake

Gtg brb soon

[frozen dew]

isnt it kinda counterintuitive to use a weapon that devotes most of its stat budget to a spellspam playstyle with a burst-focused archetype
unless backstabless shadestepper then in that case ok

also like side question
how much backstab damage do yall get as a spell shadestepper

[cold jay]

There's more than just one way to play shadestepper currently, unlike the old one which was very one dimensional. When it comes to LI, your most likely gonna use the tride and true satsujin to maul everything. When it comes to doing dps to raid bosses, nightcloak knife plus spell spam is better overall.

My build is more focused on the bursty nature though, since in something like tna you don't often get much time to attack before greg does his next annoying high damage spell.

Build I use: https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder/#8_0Au09-0r50v+0050K20OU0Ji0Q+0q0e140A221g1006FU01006FU1006FU1007lU0z0z0+0+0+0+0--ZlFelNE0

I will say weathered's major id and good supporting stats is really holding back players from being able to play shadestepper effectively though. And even then it's pretty ineffective due to the stupendous amount of setup (thanks to vanish cooldown and mark buildup) it has to do before it actually can do damage. Anyways why do I still play it? Idk it's a really fun archetype somehow.

[frozen dew]

so true

i wanna type up something for shadestepper but idk

[cold jay]

I've done that in the past, I just have avoided doing it again because it draws out that side of me that isn't particularly nice.

[frozen dew]

its just feedback certainly nothing will go wrong

[mellow vine]

Your fully tomed burst damage is:

[cold jay]

You wanna know something funny. Compare this description to the one ingame.

[mellow vine]

This is single target btw

[cold jay]

Why does everyone keep saying that

[mellow vine]

On multi target you could get 10 nightcloak

[cold jay]

Violent Vortex man

[mellow vine]

Instead of just 6

[cold jay]

oh that's what you mean

[mellow vine]

So multitarget does more damage, yeah

[frozen dew]

when the singletarget burst archetype can only deal max damage with multiple enemies (also more fluid gameplay with multiple enemies (silent killer)

[cold jay]

But it should be noted that:
A. Nightcloak knife ingame is 6% per mark.
B. Nightcloak knife can trigger itself.
C. I have done up to 3.5m damage in one hit with it ingame, albiet this was with probably +100% spell damage and a very lucky crit.

Wynnbuilder kind of cant calculate the true damage of nightcloak knife due to that how it loops in on itself, and also because the values are still incorrect somehow (and are using the hero beta values still).

I could be wrong but outside of dash stacking I think shadestepper can achieve the highest possible dps of any archetype in the game, I can reach up to 800k dps on a combat dummy with this build.
The only catch is it only lasts 3 seconds .

[mellow vine]

Quake does a little less

[cold jay]

And also makes you have basically zero mana sustain.

[mellow vine]

1 Yeah, I’ve gotten higher damage in game than on builder too (1.6m quakes)
2 What
3 critical average and damage variance + raid buffs = Hilarious

Oh, nightcloak knife is recursive

[cold jay]

Yes

[mellow vine]

The nightcloak knife nightcloak knives the nightcloak knife

[cold jay]

yep

[mellow vine]

Incredible

Still

[cold jay]

Still is no where near optimal.

[mellow vine]

The point is they should make invisibility not have a cooldown and revert smoke bomb, assassin fixed, gg

[cold jay]

When it comes to shadestepper sticky bomb is a must have, black hole is still trash.

Anyways I think I have given enough of my secrets away, If I keep somehow managing to make it sound like shadestepper is good, its somehow gonna get a nerf.

[mellow vine]

They surely won’t nerf it