Silverbull Subscription

[cloud panther]

if this goes through they will likely not be a physical item

[maiden spear]

if they knew how to do an anti duping check they wouldnt have a duping problem to begin with

[worldly axle]

also how tf will this stop irl trading for sure it will work and not down the price for the bullshares

[shell elk]

yeah i dont know much about how they will work mechanically but they are specifically being handled to not be possible to dupe

[cloud panther]

yea ^

[tulip kayak]

it doesn't stop it, it just moves it to legitimate places

[cloud panther]

honestly i dont really want them to be sellable but it isnt a hill im gonna die on

[ornate roost]

it makes irl trading a government monopoly under daddy salted

[ornate roost]

legal places, "legitamate" is a loaded term

[tulip kayak]

the irl trading will happen either way, this just allows the server to make money off things people are already doing

[ornate roost]

must I bring up the us government analogy again

[azure jay]

bad take

[tulip kayak]

factual statement, not a take

[azure jay]

Proof ?

[worldly axle]

i dont think its BULLetproof enough to stop irl trading, even if it theoretically SHOULD limit it due to "wow its always gonna be worth more to just pay from the shop"

[azure jay]

Dont you come at me with the runespace data

[ornate roost]

ok here goes: "legalize the heroin trade under US government monopoly it's happening anyway why not put the money towards the good of the nation"

[shell elk]

@azure jay do you have evidence that it won't hinder IRL trading?

[tulip kayak]

my take is that it's still bad. The proof of the statement is the statistics provided by jagex in regards to what happened to rwt rates when they did the same thing. It takes the bulk of it and moves it to the server's official system because players would rather not risk getting banned to p2w

[ornate roost]

or if we want to go even more edgy human trafficking lmao

[cloud panther]

just replace heroin with weed and its an actual argument

[vocal musk]

Jagex’ statistics do not translate to expected results on wynn

[cloud panther]

and id imagine you could argue the same with the subscription if everything it gave was cosmetic in one way or another

[shell elk]

Why's that?

[cloud panther]

the only thing that seems to be in the way of that is the market tax which. sure i guess

[worldly axle]

it will make it less effective for sure, but it mostly will just make the subscription so cheap (ingame) that its easily affordable for everyone (depending on how many people NEED TO BUY LE FOR THEIR INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT MYTHIC)

[ornate roost]

IRL trading, in many peoples views, are wrong. if its being done legally, that still does not make it right

[tulip kayak]

they do translate, the ratio won't be 1:1 with the rate things change but many people will choose to buy the shares and sell them instead of paying some random person money to give them LE

[kindred anchor]

hmm i do not like this

[worldly axle]

i wonder, can you buy multiple bullshares and reuse them month after month 🤔

[vocal musk]

Runescape is a p2p game with a f2p option. Wynn is a f2p game with p2w options. Wynn has ranks and other payment systems, osrs only really has bonds from what I see

[ornate roost]

yeah this will clamp down on irl trading, I have to give it that. The rates will eventually settle so even if irl trading is still cheaper, it will be much less of a reward for the risk

[tulip kayak]

you cannot look at osrs in a vacuum, osrs is not a profitable game(they have said so) the servers for runescape are still running the way they are because of the p2w features in rs3 and the absurd number of cosmetics that you can buy in it

[shell elk]

How will these points change the outcome that official IRL trading will have on the black market

[ornate roost]

my issue its that its not worth the cost of making the irl trading thing MUCH LARGER by making it a legal, and encouraged, market

[tulip kayak]

that's the first good argument against it I've seen out of you

[ornate roost]

hey

my us government analogie is a banger

[tulip kayak]

because you are 100% right, adding more p2w just to avoid the illegal p2w is not good

[rigid warren]

hypixel logic xD

[tulip kayak]

it WORKS to fund the server

[cloud panther]

yerp agree

[tulip kayak]

but it isn't a good change to make and should be avoided as much as possible

[shell elk]

tbh I'm kind of on the fence

[tulip kayak]

I like the idea, but the implementation needs work and it needs to be balanced in a manner that isn't predatory

[shell elk]

Is the current plan predatory?

[tulip kayak]

I don't know the price

[ornate roost]

honestly the whole "give cash for le" thing has sailed long ago with totems

[tulip kayak]

like if a "share" costs x dollars, how much does that get me and what systems exist to control the value it has in game

[shell elk]

How much would it have to be to become predatory?

[ornate roost]

this is just containment to me rn lol

[tulip kayak]

because if the value in game is entirely player controlled then the system becomes far too p2w, but if the price is too high relative to a fixed value it becomes predatory

look at the bond price in runescape

it just keeps going up month after month seemingly without end in sight

[muted kiln]

i think it’s fine if the prices aren’t above a stack

oh wait is it monthly

nvm ..

[tulip kayak]

if a system exists to limit the price to a fixed value it would do a lot to help prevent it from being horribly ptw

[tulip kayak]

you can buy shares individually, in addition to getting 1 per month with the subscription

[worn oxide]

how much does a share even get u

[ornate roost]

as an econ major/minor I am somewhat annoyed by price ceilings but its a market that should not exist imo so go nuts

[tulip kayak]

hasn't been shared

[ornate roost]

but I'm assuming that the price is going to be left to the market

[tulip kayak]

we don't know the price per share, we don't know the amount a share gets you, and as far as we know there is no system implemented to control the price of the shares in game

[shell elk]

ok well ping me with good ideas

[cloud panther]

^

[ornate roost]

my ideas were cringe

[cloud panther]

just ping me with any ideas i may or may not reply or pass them forward depending on the idea

[shell elk]

i will act on ideas based entirely on my own personal feelings towards the person delivering the idea and will act solely in my own interest of ways to generate LE

||joke||

[ornate roost]

alright clipped and shipped sry tealy the mob will be upon thee

(/j)

[shell elk]

thats okay the mob has already been on me for the past 2 years

[worn oxide]

i suggest every month or 2 to give a excusive cosmetic. either for housing since that can now use special blocks or just helmet skins.

[west saffron]

so in my opinion the subscription rank is mostly fair aside from the tax break being maybe a little unnecessary (though also not immensely significant- avoiding taxes for major trades is not that uncommon, and similarly tax avoiding being able to be avoided like that makes it a much more acceptable "questionably not p2w" feature compared to features such as the bomb bell or champion slots

however i just read over the entire thread again and i just realized that this is going to be tradable ingame and like- holy shit do not do that oh my god

[ornate roost]

don't forget possible double totems

but yeah honestly the tax dodge will be annoying mostly for prof goods and scrapbanking, it wouldnt be the end of the world if it goes through, although I would be upset

[cloud panther]

YEAh.

[worn oxide]

🤤 tax evasion

[cloud panther]

thats basically where im at. replacing the tax thing with some other cosmetic thats widely appealing seems fine to me as well

i think the thing is just convincing salted that it is not worth it to make this tradable and the benefit from stopping irl trading doesnt nearly outweigh the downside to it

[ornate roost]

main issues for me is straight cash for emeralds (main thing) and possibly making totems even more p2w than they already are (and making inflation worse from more and more stealing grinding)

[west saffron]

it's not as egregious as hypixel booster cookies but reading through the announcement post again i really cannot tell whether this is an actual attempt to fight IRL trading or, y'know. take over this existing market for profit. and that's concerning

[cloud panther]

if it even. stops irl trading. since the majority of it will not go through this anyways

[cloud panther]

i mean imo probably both?

[ornate roost]

I think it will stop irl trading, I gave my reasons above

[worn oxide]

maybe more bank spaces

[cloud panther]

15th class slot

[ornate roost]

if they put in more moderation efforts for irl trading this will prob kill it but make an unethical market legal

[cloud panther]

[worn oxide]

class slot would be wierd with it being a sub

[ornate roost]

honestly wouldnt mind even more class slots lol

[worn oxide]

get locked out of it if u dont pay in time

[ornate roost]

would be funny to have someones class locked forever though lol

[cloud panther]

yea agree lmao i said it as a joke

[ornate roost]

like if this goes through what is the problem with IRL trading other than it going to some 20 year old coding student rather than salted

[rigid warren]

i think stopping irl trading is more of a "we told you not to do it don't blame us" thing

[muted kiln]

i don’t think this will be too bad to be honest. at some point in wynncraft you become so rich it really doesn’t matter. there’s nothing to spent so much le on in wynn. p2w or not giving wynn more money to fuck around with is fine

[rigid warren]

kinda like a legal thing

[ornate roost]

yeah its throwing the hands up in regards to the issue and just cornering the market for themselves

which I do not think is ethical

[rigid warren]

can't blame them though, there's a market for idiots.

[ornate roost]

yeah like I got my classes on lock rn with stx to spare I'll be unaffected

but like I care about the server, I've been playing since 2015, I want it to be the best it can be lol

[west saffron]

it will definitely combat a very large part of the existing IRL trading section, sure. but you should also consider that adding a "shares" feature like this also means you're essentially condoning interchanging of actual money to ingame stores and to some degree back as well, and as a result there will be a massive influx of people using real money to gain some kind of tangible, currency-related advantage.

even if wynn isn't as much of a raw numbers game as game like hypixel skyblock or runescape, having officially sanctioned IRL trading bombs your credibility and i personally really don't think it's a direction the game should or needs to take, and that just having subscriptions is as far as should be gone.

[rigid warren]

im poor on my classes but im not "selling silverbull subs" poor

[ornate roost]

I was reffering to IRL trading in the existing sense, this update if it goes through will massively increase the market as a whole

It will make it safer, and much less shady, and also not bannable lol. It clears up the market but its a market that should not exist in the first place

[vocal musk]

Mcpk denier, opinion invalid regardless

[west saffron]

also much less related and much less important but i really want to have it said- silverbull is a really shitty name lol

[ornate roost]

yeah went unmentioned but yeah lol

[rigid warren]

why silverbull

[clear stone]

'Cause it's bull 💩

[rigid warren]

you got vip hero champion

then silverbull

[ornate roost]

just make it supporter or something lol, although that means not making it tradeable lol

[brisk pasture]

hi huys

[cloud panther]

i think most people agree on that lol

[glad lotus]

we getting the gold bull subscription service in the future

[cloud panther]

theres gonna be a lower "bullshit" tier which only gives the cosmetic perks as well /s

[ornate roost]

if there is silver bull premium I will riot if its even more p2w

[glad lotus]

dont forget the slightly cheaper one, bronzebull

[clear stone]

Just. Bull. 🐮

[cloud panther]

cow emoj

[ornate roost]

bronze, silver, gold, platinum, diamond bull

were milking this into the ground

[west saffron]

uh oh

[vocal musk]

Give me that emerald tier 40 daily totems subscription

[glad lotus]

[ornate roost]

wynncraft battle pass when

[worn oxide]

🤤 why battle pass when u can gamble

[west saffron]

i mean, this subscription effectively takes the form of a season/battle pass. subscription-based, increases in-game rewards related to other store-bought options a lot to make it seem like a really good deal relative to other store purchases, that sorta stuff

[ornate roost]

But I want to do 10 redundant daily tasks for battle pass xp

[west saffron]

it would obviously be a death sentence for the not yet pushed to live feature to call it a season pass, but realistically you should treat it as one, as it does functions as one.

[ornate roost]

but yeah this sub, if tradeable for ingame cash, will be by far the most valuable thing on the store

[tulip kayak]

@shell elk Assuming the "shares" are going to be a tradeable thing added to the store and the subscription no matter what we do, a few things must be done to control them.
The price in game needs to be limited(the limit really depends on how much it gets you and how much it costs). Players can sell them to other players, but not for any amount they wish. Infinite price scaling results in extreme p2w which is bad for pretty much everybody.
The item needs to ONLY be sellable on the market and not able to be traded, dropped, or put in guild bank. Alternative ways of exchanging them between players would result in people buying every single one that hits the trade market and scalping them like people did with pokemon cards.

Other suggestions that may or may not be good:
Add an emerald tax to make the share tradeable
Make shares only redeemable for cosmetics
limit the number of shares that can be purchased with irl money per day/week/month

As for the subscription itself:
Hide Armour is very vague and I see a lot of people assuming it means nobody else can see what your armour is at all. If that is the case that could be bad. But if it's like the mods where you can hide the ability to see armour on players/yourself then it's fine.
Reduced market tax, but by how much? It doesn't say removed, but without knowing how much it is reduced by it's hard to say whether this change is meh or bad. If tax goes down by less than half I feel it's fine given how small the tax percentage is to begin with, but once it gets cut in half or more it starts to be a little problematic.
Double rank rewards sounds okay, but doubling totems per day might be a bit much, totems are already seen as a bit p2w by a lot of people and this would make it even more so.
The rest of the perks of the rank itself I don't really have any issues with
Unless the subscription itself is genuinely like $2 per month I feel it could use a little more, like maybe some exclusive cosmetics.

[ornate roost]

honestly if your going to cap the price I would say just don't make them sellable at all

[west saffron]

i can't wait for shares to get duped lol

[ornate roost]

why would you buy them to sell if the value is awful

[grizzled cipher]

https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1073025313761677312

[tulip kayak]

you would want to cap the price at a level that it still has value, but isn't too extreme

[west saffron]

because that will not be an issue in a notoriously buggy game.

[tulip kayak]

if they are going to exist don't let the price keep going up forever

[vocal musk]

Maybe we should push for staff team to actually publish a list of specifics instead of purposefully hiding them

[ornate roost]

granted the effect is the same, I'd rather have an issue minimixed than none at all so I'd say go for a cap if its sellable

[tulip kayak]

better for them not to be tradeable at all, but if they are I don't want to see them cost 1stx+

[ornate roost]

a cap would make it just much more expensive to p2w, I'd rather have it capped than uncapped but I'd rather have it none at all

other than that I agree with your post generally yeah

[tulip kayak]

more expensive to p2w, and then if you add a limit on how many you can buy it becomes impractical to p2w

[ornate roost]

they will not add a buy limit

[tulip kayak]

they won't

[west saffron]

like, i genuinely wonder about it, because wynn historically has almost always had some kind of dupe bug available and i am certain there will be more major dupes in the future, but with shares that is going from "oh darn the economy is taking a hot and everything is now 20% more LE" to "salted isn't getting food this month because shares were duped and no one uses their actual money on the store anymore"

[worn oxide]

i really dont see people spending 1 stack to get xp bombs. but maybe if they are tradable for event crates they can go up for that much

[tulip kayak]

but they really SHOULD

[ornate roost]

someone said that they are making a specific system to make the undupable

forgor who said it and they didn't mention how but it has been said by a ct member

[slate lagoon]

nothing is impossible to dupe, Minecraft is jank as fuck. Even if it's difficult it'll happen eventually

[ornate roost]

if/when it happens it will certainly be an interesting day

[west saffron]

oh well when wynn explodes i will be watching from the sidelines i guess

[tulip kayak]

they can make it NEARLY impossible by making it something you only interact with via commands that have limits on the frequency in which you can use them

but that's just tedious and painful to use at that point

[ornate roost]

some glitch will happen with them most likely but we should prob keep dupe talk to a minimum since they are already confident in an anti-dupe system

but yeah a cap on both price and number imo is a bandaid over a large wound but its better to have them if the wound is here to stay

but I highly doubt either will go through, since it would mean less subs being bought

[slate lagoon]

But anyways, I agree with this

[tulip kayak]

well keep in mind the shares and the subscriptions are separate

[west saffron]

let's not, i think dupes seriously threatening the income of the server and possibly its continued existence as a result is as important as it gets

[tulip kayak]

you get 1 share per month with the subscription and you can buy the shares individually

[ornate roost]

yeah but they will not listen to any talk of it most likely

its a major issue if the item or system breaks, and in my opinion yeah pinning a major income source on it is a bad idea

[tulip kayak]

part of me feels the 1 per month with the subscription being the ONLY existence of the shares would do a lot to fix it, but then it wouldn't be a system to counter irl trading so they wouldn't even bother considering it

[ornate roost]

yeah the sub has to be lucrative to do its supposed purpose of brining irl trading to a minimum

if I'm going conspiracy mode I can say that irl trading is just an excuse to get into it but I'm not going to linger on that

[tulip kayak]

irl trading is something they have issues with, so I don't think it's an excuse but rather a convenient problem

they can solve that problem and secure consistent funds to keep the server running all at once

(at the cost of a portion of the playerbase)

[ornate roost]

But honestly, if it was irl trading for pure cosmetics, I honestly would not mind it that much mostly because there wouldnt be a naturally high price but its the issue of people need to want to buy the sub to make it counter irl trading

[tulip kayak]

it would need exclusive cosmetics for that

[ornate roost]

a purely cosmetic, tradeable pass, wouldnt do anything for irl trading imo

well it would do some stuff but not a lot

[round iris]

they should of just made the wynncraft battlepass

[ornate roost]

did that joke already I am quicker at being unoriginal

[round iris]

I did it before this thread, but so did many before me probably

[tulip kayak]

a battle pass is unironically a better system to help monetize the server, it just does nothing to combat the irl trading

[round iris]

incredibly original joke

[primal quiver]

ONG battlepass to do guild wars 😂

[tulip kayak]

so it doesn't solve the full issue they presented this as a solution for

[slate lagoon]

Wynn has an okay amount of IRL trading. But in my personal opinion the silverbull thing doesn't really work too well at combating it either way. A lot of IRL trades mods can handle, but the ones that we can't I don't expect the silverbull to really impact at all

[ornate roost]

a honest to god battlepass would be so funny if it was just cosmetics I wouldn't even be mad

[tulip kayak]

most of them are

[round iris]

yeah but convincing anyone here that this whole thing is to combat irl trading here proves useless

[ornate roost]

it would prob undercut irl trading a bit by forcing prices lower but yeah this wont kill irl trading entirely

and its def not worth making it an official system

[round iris]

ill be honest i didnt think irl trading impacted me much, was it that big of an issue?

[tulip kayak]

it didn't kill it in runescape either, just cut transactions by 61% and cut the amount of gold traded by 81%

[ornate roost]

yea

[tulip kayak]

if wynn gets similar turnover with irl trading to official p2w features it would help but not completely solve the problem

[ornate roost]

and that just goes right back to the ethicallity question lol

of whether an irl trading system by the server itself is good to have

and if its worth it to cut down on an issue I'm not even certain the size of

[hybrid lantern]

remove this shitty ah goofy ah subscription

[ornate roost]

like didn't the screenshot on the post have mostly things from 2021 as evidence

[cloud panther]

outside of the "ill trade u my lament for ps4 game" irl trading i dont think what exists is something the mods are unable to track

[cloud panther]

not really? it was most relevant late 2022

[hybrid lantern]

i would point out how wynncraft and runescape are very fucking different but

[tulip kayak]

if we assume the size of the issue is comparable to the size of the issue in runescape, but scaled down based on the playerbase it is a lot bigger than you think, but still not big enough to NEED an official system

[tulip kayak]

this song and dance again, salted himself said he took inspiration from runsecape when making wynn so it is ALWAYS a valid comparison

[round iris]

good deal, except i hate sony

[hybrid lantern]

you understand that it doesnt change the fact that they are completely different games..

[tulip kayak]

WoW and Runescape are completely different games too, but they are both valid to compare to one another because of the similarities

[round iris]

nah we just shit on eachother

they're both MMO's thats about it

[tulip kayak]

and everything being an mmo is the only relevant factor for the comparisons being made

[ornate roost]

I never played runescape or wow I am now wholly unqualified in this discussion lol

[tulip kayak]

this mmo did this thing and this happened, so this mmo doing a similar thing should see a similar result

[round iris]

the only relevant factor here is that the patch notes literally said "the silverbull thing is inspired by runescape"

[cloud panther]

my rs account is almost at ice barrage

[round iris]

in newschool runescape we say "my account is almost at incite fear"

[ornate roost]

these sure are words

[round iris]

oldschool runescape and runescape 3 players over time being less capible of shitting on WOW because we're too busy shitting on eachother

[tulip kayak]

my "newschool runescape" account is maxed and I don't even play the damn game

[ornate roost]

anyhow prob going to go do some Uni stuff this was a sometimes good talk sorry @tulip kayak for being an asshole to you in the beginning lol

cant wait to read the forum threads about this

[vocal musk]

ChaosDragon not simplifying a topic down to nothing in order to compare 2 things challenge:

[round iris]

is that just saying you used to play it?

[tulip kayak]

I return everytime they add a new skill just to get it to 99

[round iris]

get ready to do that again in a few months

[tulip kayak]

(I don't fuck with 120s usually)

[vocal musk]

"Yeah this blue glove and this blueberry are totally comparable flavor-wise, I mean they are both blue things! This blue thing can always be compared with that blue thing"

[tulip kayak]

yeah I know 😦

I watch tons of osrs content on youtube(don't play osrs at all) and that's about it for my runescape involvement

apart from keeping my max cape I feel 7k hours is more than enough for me

[round iris]

mines just pvm and also watch some osrs documentaries every so often

i do have 120 in half the skills too

dont know why sometimes

[tulip kayak]

I don't have any 120s, and idk if I ever will lol

[tulip kayak]

that's not what's being done at all.

I'm comparing the flavors of 2 different fruits(mmos) the similarities are FAR more than one tiny little aspect

[vocal musk]

Just because they are both mmos (blue) doesn't mean they are comparable?

[tulip kayak]

them both being video games makes them comparable

them being the same genre of video game makes them VERY comparable

[vocal musk]

As previously stated, osrs is a P2P game with a F2P option, wynn is a F2P game with P2W options

[round iris]

I dont blame you

[tulip kayak]

runescape is more than just osrs, and runescape(both versions) has p2w options, and thanks to that p2w system it is entirely f2p since you can buy bonds in game

[round iris]

Im surrounded by people with 200m most skills

[vocal musk]

You pay to play the game

Do you think this silverbull idea is comparable to membership?

[tulip kayak]

I don't pay a dime to play the game, membership can be bought with in-game money

[sage delta]

Yes

[tulip kayak]

THAT'S what the "shares" are being compared to, the bonds that runescape has which can but membership, treasure hunter keys, tokens to buy cosmetic items, and more

[round iris]

Pvm gives too much money so i spend some of it on membership

[pliant hatch]

honestly
there's nothing that wrong with the subscription
but trying to justify it with "everyone else is doing it" is a really bad argument

[vocal musk]

Okay let's list out all of the things membership gives you, and then compare them to what silverbull gives you

[tulip kayak]

that is a bad argument, yes

[round iris]

The shares is the same thing except wynncraft made up a membership with it

[sage delta]

Its supremely beneficial to people who can’t or don’t want to pay for the game

[vocal musk]

then dont pay for the game

fun fact, wynn is free to play. You can just log on and play

[sage delta]

Its good so people who can’t can still get vip benefits

[fervent junco]

it’d be nice if the beta gave everyone a taste of what the share does

[vocal musk]

the whole game, all quests, all regions, free to play 🙂

[tulip kayak]

Just because one system gives you more that you can purchase with the p2w feature doesn't mean the p2w feature that directly inspired the one we are discussing isn't comparable

[round iris]

For now

[sage delta]

Cool, then don’t buy the membership

[tulip kayak]

runescape bonds are the inspiration for the "shares"

[round iris]

Boutta get the dern expansion pass included with silverbull

[vocal musk]

Bonds give you access to more game, silverbull gives you access to the same game with more money

[sage delta]

They give you access to vip benefits

[tulip kayak]

bonds can also give you access to the same game with more money if you buy keys or cosmetic tokens with them

[vocal musk]

I'm sorry, does vip give you access to more wynncraft?

[tulip kayak]

it used to

[round iris]

People kinda just are interchanging between talking about the shares and the sub depending on what they see fit

[sage delta]

Yes, more class slots

[vocal musk]

Right, but do you really think that's the majority of bond usage? not for the membership, or ability to play the actual game?

[tulip kayak]

no, most people don't actually realize they are separate

[round iris]

If that double class slot happens, oh boy

[sage delta]

Icewarox be shaking and crying at the thought

[tulip kayak]

it doesn't matter what it is actually used for, it is literally the thing that inspired the shares, and as such will always be a valid thing to compare the shares to

[round iris]

And they get deleted once your sub runs out 🤯

[vocal musk]

"it doesn't matter what it is actually used for" brother you just admitted you don't care about the result

[tulip kayak]

nah just lock them until you get the sub again

[vocal musk]

Why are you part of this conversation if you don't care about the impact

[round iris]

Too much dev time no can do

[tulip kayak]

why are you twisting my words and inserting your own opinion as mine

[round iris]

It is, treasure hunter profits more than membership

Theyve released stats on this before

[tulip kayak]

the runescape bond's usage does not matter, it is FACTUALLY the thing that inspired the shares that are one of the features of this update, and the specific one we as a community have an issue with

[round iris]

Its sad when you think about it

[fervent junco]

i’ll read through this thread and the other occasionally but if you want a good message pinned ping me

[vocal musk]

it being inspiration doesn't mean they are comparable

[round iris]

Its a carbon copy

[tulip kayak]

they literally stated that the majority of the playerbase is in osrs, but the people who buy treasure hunter keys and cosmetics in rs3 are the only reason the game is profitable

it's an insane statistic

[vocal musk]

Didn't we already go over this? This blue lego inspired me to make this painting blue. Is this painting comparable to the lego in any way other than the color?

[tulip kayak]

i'm sorry does logic escape you...

[round iris]

To be specific, rs3 profits more than osrs despite the playercount gap because of it

[vocal musk]

read the message right above yours

[round iris]

Thats a bad analogy lol

[vocal musk]

Inspiration doesn't provide comparability, to claim such is absurd

[tulip kayak]

yes it does...

when you take inspiration from minecraft and create your own voxel game it is 100% valid to compare it to minecraft

you are trying to remove 80% of the equation and control the answer

[vocal musk]

. So these are comparable?

[sage delta]

Just like how bombs profit more than vip

[round iris]

Honestly thats just because ranks arent consumable

[tulip kayak]

you aren't paining something blue because of a blue lego, you are making your own brick connection system because you found a lego

[vocal musk]

I am bringing it to the heart of what you are saying instead of something else, you are purposefully removing the example from the core of what you are saying to try and make it correct

[tulip kayak]

that's what wynn is doing here

[primal quiver]

Where has this chat gotten to someone give me an update

[vocal musk]

ChaosDragon giving absolutely braindead takes

[round iris]

Idk lol

[sage delta]

EzDzQzR is being mean to everyone

[primal quiver]

💀 https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1073025313761677312
Anyway check this cute thread made by urs truly 👍

[tulip kayak]

mostly me

[sage delta]

Yes

[primal quiver]

@vocal musk don't be mean they are sensitive 😔

[vocal musk]

I argue against dumb takes equally, you just so happen to be providing them

[tulip kayak]

the only dumb take in this discussion is you thinking things can't be compared

[primal quiver]

@round iris 🤓 👍 ok time to go get food im hungry

[round iris]

Why ping me?

[primal quiver]

You can compare things but you cant base everything on the comparison everything is its own thing lol

[tulip kayak]

yugioh master duel has a battle pass system, it is valid for me to compare it to fortnites battle pass system, because it is their take on the same type of system, even though these are completely different games with different payment structures

[primal quiver]

its a starting ground to compare to thing but it doesnt mean much

[tulip kayak]

when the thing used for comparison is literally the exact thing provided as the reason why this feature is being created, yes you can

[fervent junco]

wtf is this the subscription infinity war

[primal quiver]

seems like it idk man ima just go eat

[round iris]

Honestly the subscription benefits should just change, and I have no ideas how

[tulip kayak]

if I tell you I'm climbing a mountain because looni did, it is 100% valid to compare my physical fitness to looni's because he was the basis of everything

likewise wynn is adding shares following a system that runescape added with bonds, so it is 100% valid to compare the shares to runescape bonds

[round iris]

This discussion goes to shit because when praising the shares, people shit on the subscription and say they’re both bad

Which isnt entirely wrong i still dont like the sub benefits as they stand

[vocal musk]

But not valid to compare the impact of bonds on osrs with the impact of these shares on wynn

[tulip kayak]

it is valid to compare the impact, because that system was copied in multiple other games and they had similar results

[vocal musk]

Because although wynn and osrs are both in the "mmorpg" genre, the have very different systems, and both of these are implemented in a very different way

[sage delta]

Not really

[round iris]

Yes but they literally said they copied runescape in the thread

[vocal musk]

Wynn has nowhere near the market compared to osrs though. I can go and destroy the price of entire categories of items with very little money already, that is significantly harder to do on osrs

[tulip kayak]

per capita is a concept that escapes you

wynn has a smaller playerbase, thus the amount of irl trades is lower, but introducing a system like this would have a PROPORTIONAL effect

runescape had a 60% decrease in irl trades

[vocal musk]

I'm not talking about irl trades at all

I do not care whatsoever about the impact of irl trading, I'm talking about the market impact

[tulip kayak]

that's the entire basis of the fucking shares

you aren't even talking about the topic we are discussing

[vocal musk]

Sure it helps with irl trading, is that worth the significant negative impact on the market?

[tulip kayak]

I never said it was

[vocal musk]

Okay so we agree, that it is a bad implementation right? And we don't do it?

[tulip kayak]

I specifically want them to do anything they can to avoid that, even not add the shares at all if possible

[round iris]

Wynncraft market is balls already, you cant make it worse

[tulip kayak]

but that doesn't mean comparing the system to runescape isn't valid

[round iris]

Like you said even just one person can destroy an item’s value

[tulip kayak]

it still hasn't recovered from the last dupe

it improved from what I saw, but hasn't recovered

[vocal musk]

On runescape there is a much smaller % of the playerbase which has enough money to devastate part of the economy

Since that % is so much higher on wynncraft, the impact will be far greater if we double income of those players

[round iris]

Im having a stroke reading this goodbye

[tulip kayak]

doesn't change the fact that it is still valid to compare this system to bonds in runescape. The whole point of comparing them is to see ways in which bonds worked well and ways in which they failed and make strides to do the good things and not do the bad things

bonds had a purchase limit on release to restrict p2w aspects, I don't know if those still exist, bonds have an unlimited value ceiling and are free to just keep going up so long as the players want to pay more

one of these is a good system to help control things, the other is a blatantly bad idea and needs to be avoided with shares in wynn

[outer bronze]

Silverbull should give daily shout bombs, because i want everyone to suffer

[languid marsh]

I kinda support this

[sage delta]

Hero should give daily shout bombs x2

[languid marsh]

As champion rank I’ve never used a shout, feels kinda bad

[wise temple]

using my daily shout bombs to advertise my silverbull selling business

[sage delta]

Using my daily silverbull to advertise my shout selling business

[tribal oasis]

no way bro didnt get paid to defend the owners this hard 😭

i dont think he even believes himself

[tulip kayak]

I 100% believe the devs that the cost to run wynncraft has gone up a lot and the revenue the server brings in hasn't kept pace. It's very clearly still profitable right now, but I do firmly believe if things continue like this that it won't be in the coming few years. So I can fully understand WHY they would want to add something like this.

And because everybody assumes I like p2w things when my responses don't explicitly say otherwise I need to add: Just because I believe them that the server is getting to be too expensive does not mean I support this particular system of monetization, I do not like p2w and hope they find an alternative.

[pastel minnow]

It sounds great till a lvl 80 buys like 50 bucks worth of subscriptions and then immediately has 10 stacks and completely negates the entire like gameplay and grinding aspect of reaching endgame. The perks are not what’s P2W it’s selling the subscriptions on the tm for ingame le and just kinda ruining the integrity of the game.

Im all for Wynn covering server costs but if it comes are the integrity of the game there is no point

[tulip kayak]

Yes, thats the part I have an issue with. The p2w is what I dislike. I really like most of the other aspects of the subscription.

[pastel minnow]

So you agree they should not be tradable

[tulip kayak]

Unironically a battle pass system with mostly cosmetic rewards would do this

[tulip kayak]

I do

[pastel minnow]

@primal quiver homie said battle pass

[tulip kayak]

I said the same when it was memed earlier

It is unironically a system that would help monetize Wynn in a way thd community would actually enjoy

[primal quiver]

[sage delta]

Wynncraft battlepass, I just shit out my Warp, booted up my PC because I need me, a Wynncraft battlepass

[dreamy badger]

Okay, just zeroing in on one aspect- Why's everyone got a bee in their bonnet over the trade market tax reduction? I fully understand that the Shares being tradable is contentious, and while I'm putting my faith in Salted on it I'm well aware it could go badly, but just focusing in on the tax reduction...isn't the tax already fairly small? You aren't going to be saving that much anyways.

The tax seems to be 5%. So, if you sell an item for 1000 emeralds, it'll show up to other players as being sold for 1050, and those extra 50 emeralds get deleted. Right?

A reduction on that doesn't seem like it would really save you that much. That's more what I mean about certain bits being blown out of proportion. The tax is still there- I'm uncertain of what the value would be, but let's just say...I dunno, it goes from 5% to 2%. Again, I am not sure if that's the number that's intended here, this is a hypothetical. That 1000 emerald sale would appear for 1020 then, so the buyer pays 30 less emeralds.

Let's say you have something sold for 4 stacks, a mythic of whatever kind. That's 1048576 emeralds. With current tax, buyers would pay 1101005 emeralds. With a 2% tax, they would pay instead 1069548- a difference of...31457 emeralds, or about 7.6 LE.

Comparative to the amount of money being thrown around that really isn't that much. It might add up over time sure, but generally market purchases are smaller than that. A lot of people will do direct mythic trades to avoid tax, so those big money sales aren't always on market to begin with.

So I'm uncertain quite why that's so supremely contentious. Like yes, it is a tangible ingame benefit purchased with money. But so are bombs. Maybe there's some kind of disconnect I'm not seeing?

[cloud panther]

they like the market

[loud crane]

we like market

[worn oxide]

🤤 tax evasion bomb when

[pastel minnow]

I think it’s more tje principle of it than anything else that has people annoyed. Like it’s a very obvs “you trade for the subscription using ingame currency for that perk that directly saves you Le using the exact same system that you bought it with”
It’s one of the only perks besides perhaps bombbell which literally only benefits the player who forked over irl money

Ik a lot of ppl are going on about inflation which I mean sure it will have an impact but realistically it’s being overstated by those who are going on about it. But the principle remains that you are spending irl money for a very obvs benefit

[dreamy badger]

You are when you purchase bombs or ranks(which provide totems) too.

[pastel minnow]

Bombs impact the entire world and totems impact nearby players

[dreamy badger]

Admittedly I got a lot bigger of a discussion by reposting this in #1073025313761677312

[pastel minnow]

Totems even give an announcement when placed to nearby players

[dreamy badger]

They're ostensibly an Everyone benefit since bombs affect the whole server and totems are announced and can be participated in by multiple people, but I've never seen people rush over to take advantage of a totem unless it was a group event or I shouted about it.

And let's face it, most people buy bombs for themselves- the fact they apply the effect to an entire world is effectively a bonus.

[pastel minnow]

In most places around the map certainly not by areas such as herb cave, flesh cave, waterfall and sea cove you literally can’t grind witj a totem solo

[pastel minnow]

The intention of the purchase of bombs really doesn’t matter. At the end of the day it’s still impacting Atleast another good 20+ people.

[dreamy badger]

Has that changed recently? Cause I've thrown totems all over plenty of times...

[pastel minnow]

It’s most noticeable post consumable level change

Where high level scrolls can’t be popped for lower level players

Obvsly if ur running around Herb cave with a pure you will be fine but that’s a similar minority*

[dreamy badger]

Consumable level change? That sounds like a prof thing- and I don't really interact with professions stuff. I'm more on the actiony bits as what I develop, so that makes sense I'd be missing it I guess, but I really haven't noticed it personally.

[pastel minnow]

About a year ago? Scroll effects can only be received by players who are at the level or higher of the scroll

Previously a lvl 105 could pop a lvl 100 fiery aura scrolls next to a lvl 1 and they would gain 3k hp for the scroll duration

[dreamy badger]

Oh. Then I really have never seen it cause I've popped totems in the past few months in popular spots without getting any attention.

[pastel minnow]

Ever since the introduction of /ghosts toggle all being default its incredibly rare to see people totem grinding alone

[dreamy badger]

As I said- I have never-not-once had someone randomly join my spot when I use a totem, only ever when there's group events or alerted via shout or anything.

[pastel minnow]

And even if people do its the simple fact that totems benefit can be received by anyone in the area

[dreamy badger]

So it's small part the benefit is only for the one person, big part "share being tradable is something we don't like"?

[pastel minnow]

cant speak for everyone obvsly but if its a phyisical item um ... dupers?

Literally just becomes another whole currency for people to trade

[dreamy badger]

I'll restate that I'm wary of that myself, but Salted made a convincing enough argument about it that I'm willing to at least tentatively trust him on that one. And I'm like 99% sure that it isn't going to be a physical item.

[pastel minnow]

Admittedly the first ive heard that it wont be phyiscal form

The fact that it was tradable kinda heavily implied that it would be which is where alot of concerns come from

There is a general lack of transparency when its come to this subscription
How the perks work
What the perks actually are (changelogs contain different information to the videos posted)
Price estimates etc

Which I think has alot of people concerned and reaching incorrect conclusions on hoew it will always work

[dreamy badger]

There's always dupe methods for physical items no matter how many the bugfixers and devs squish, so my assumption is that there's going to be some kind of special tab or menu for it.

[pastel minnow]

I was expecting smth similar to the old gc menu

[pastel minnow]

Do you know if the 'shares' are the subscriptions or if they are two seperate things?

[pastel minnow]

Also a lot of people feel this just legitimises IRL trading.
lvl 80 comes along. spends 50 bucks on shares. trades for 10 stacks at $5usd = 1 stack and bam they have enough for an entire godly end game set without any real need to do any of the typical gameplay. Kinda just ruins the integrity of the game

[dreamy badger]

I wasn't super involved in the nitty gritty of it admittedly. I've sort of been away from Wynn stuff outside of my own small bubble for a while due to life circumstances being super draining, so I can't say I know the details.

That's kind of why I'm asking this stuff, if I'm being honest. Trying to get honest opinions that aren't just people shrieking

or, like, just slinging 🤓 around over and over again to anything counter to what they're saying

[pastel minnow]

🤓

Other concerns are like

it wasnt mentioned in the changelog but it was mentioned in olinus' video like doubling champion rank booth duration? which as someone who constantly hogs detlas booths and switch them between champion alts that sounds so absolutely fucked

[sage delta]

Its an emerald sink

One of the few ones in the game, nerfing it could be bad

[pastel minnow]

Emeralds sunk through tm tax are such a tiny % of all emeralds sunk in a day and this isn't removing it its just reducing it. HOWEVER, it does breed unfair competition between players and thats an issue.

[sage delta]

You’d be surprised how much a small tax on items can affect inflation in games

[pastel minnow]

oh its huge Jp released the stat about it ages ago but its still nothing compared to shit like rerolling items

[cloud panther]

thank god

(actually i dont think this was really the hugest of deals)

[pastel minnow]

It was a good change and def needed. It certainly made a huge difference for how some of us were grinding

[cloud panther]

at worst it makes people going to parties on their first class overlevel and then get lost

[cloud panther]

yea very true lmao

[pastel minnow]

you would go from lvl 1-30 in 1 totem with like 2 basic scrolls

[cloud panther]

yah i remeber

remember*
i dont think its too much of a big deal to speed up grinding for second classes+ but it definitely made it unreasonably fast

and i am not upset the change happened

[pastel minnow]

def a good change

[sage delta]

It does make making war consumables scuffed as hell because some warrers aren’t max level yet so you gotta go with a lower scroll level

[cloud panther]

that sounds like a guild member issue bestie

[pastel minnow]

no they just... level??

[sage delta]

Thats the only issue I have with it, not saying it shouldn’t of been implemented at all

[upper summit]

wow controversial topic eh?

if i could summarize my general opinions on silverbull:

i'm not against the idea of this being added to get more funds or maybe even act as a countermeasure to irl trading, I'm no marketing expert or anything but i want to put at least some faith in Salted knowing what hes doing though its obvious some things arent perfect. Again, i like the idea here, not the execution. I pray this share thing is the least possible thing to dupe ever because that would cause a lot of problems

like selvut said im not sure why the market tax is a big kerfuffle since it just seems like the tiniest amount of money saving ever. but we dont really know how big it is either so eh, if anything i seen a good replacement idea which was just granting another tm slot or smthn

I had no problems with the armor hide until guild warrers mentioned some things so uh yeah maybe dont do that

and im not even sure what exactly double ranked rewards means, like if its more crates idc but maybe dont do more mob totems

tldr i like what its trying to do but some factors of the execution are too vague to properly judge or are just an outright poor aspect

[worldly axle]

whats so bad about hiding armors

[upper summit]

guild warrers didnt like it but i cant recall the reason other than it seeming logical, i dont do guild stuff so i dont wanna heavily comment on it much

it was something about people hiding their builds iirc

[worldly axle]

which should be a thing, to hide ur builds. people shouldnt be able to run after to and stalk you to see builds you made.

[sage delta]

Yea, which would in turn make guild wars pay to win

[worldly axle]

how is that p2w

thats just incredibly overtuned of a comment, it barely matters compared to not having it especially due to current /stream

[sage delta]

People look at builds people are using to tune towers to those builds

[sage delta]

But also I don’t mean like full on p2w

[worldly axle]

which shouldnt be a thing in the first place how cringe is that even 8D

[dreamy badger]

That's a mod thing. If it's giving players an advantage, perhaps the mod shouldn't allow those features.

Instead of shaping the game around a utility mod, maybe the utility mod should be shaped around the game instead.

[worldly axle]

in some places its good when the build is able to be seen, for example during raids. i really am an advocate for builds being visible there, and am always happy when others implement ones build for that matter. it just helps get raids done faster in most cases here and since its not a competitive environment but rather a team effort its just a good feature

i guess the mod could implement that armor hiding feature as well, but it could always be bypassed (not sure if the mod can idk what the server sends to others, somehow the data has to be sent for the mod to even show it no?)

[bright flare]

maybe wynncraft should implement a feature so players could see others' armour without a modification

[cloud panther]

maybe you should not be able to see others' armour

[steel panther]

i aint reading allat

[grizzled cipher]

then FU­­­CK OFF!!

[steel panther]

no hablo

[primal quiver]

@CuddlesTheBear#6556 be nice

Watdahel can't ping despair

[cloud panther]

bro is gone

[maiden spear]

@grizzled cipher

[wise temple]

I am genuinely curious how the silverbull subscription doesnt violate eula

[outer bronze]

EULA isn’t even real anymore

[wise temple]

side thought: man there are so many other servers with awful p2w structures and yet its armor skins that microsoft gets all whiny about

[outer bronze]

The issue wasn’t what you think it was, it was the request spam afaik

[wise temple]

oh like constantly updating the player's skin

[outer bronze]

That is what I have heard, I don’t know how true it is

[wise temple]

clogged server traffic or something

[sage delta]

Heard that too

[cloud panther]

also what i’ve heard

[shell elk]

@fervent junco pin this please

[fervent junco]

this?

or the thread as a whole

[cloud panther]

i would imagine the thread

[fervent junco]

only 1 thread can be pinned at a time, i would say the megathread takes priority but this has also been the main point of discussion

[wise temple]

wdym

oh nvm

i think it was pin Nagisa's message about why armor skins were an issue

[shell elk]

https://tenor.com/view/casino-mobster-robert-de-niro-smoke-gif-12184349

[languid marsh]

Can I get a tldr on this thread it’s a lot to read

[azure jay]

silverbull bad

[dreamy badger]

not without missing a lot of important details

take the time, use your brain and your eyeballs, it isn't a doorstopper novel

[languid marsh]

It seemed like the only thing people care about is trade market tax and selling it on TM. I don’t really see the big deal

[clear stone]

And for some reason hiding armour(???)

(Though compared to market tax that's a great minority, if not only a few people)

[rigid warren]

hiding armour for most sane people it's more "why isn't this champion or another rank"

[languid marsh]

By hide armor do them mean in the cosmetic sense like the mod or hide your build as in you can’t middle click to see items?

[rigid warren]

do agree feels like a permanent rank feature more than a subscription thing. others are complaining that hiding your build is bad and all that (even though it's via a mod which actually means the mod is bad)

[pliant venture]

2x totems is game changing

[exotic bear]

2x totems so you can illegally grind mobs more efficiently 🤨
obligatory jk

[languid marsh]

I feel like 80% of most days I don’t use all my totems

Where are totems used the most, I see xp grinding and that’s about it

[exotic bear]

item grinding

[languid marsh]

Explain do you mean ingredients? Or like mythic grinding?

[exotic bear]

both

[clear stone]

I mean, you're already getting free totems; only twice as much now

To a non-ranked you're as much a p2w person as you make double totems seem to be

[pliant venture]

"only twice as much now"

[clear stone]

Yes.

[sage delta]

From 8 to 16 totems, not that big a deal

Only means that if your main source of money is ingredient grinding, then this is basically required

[pliant venture]

dont forget mythic grinders 🥴

[clear stone]

Is that the only part you're going to nitpick?

[pliant venture]

what

[sage delta]

Nitpick??

[pastel minnow]

Ingredient grinding largely does not require totems. And currently the people who do use totems for grinding like myself all have multiple champion/hero ranked accounts anyway.

[clear stone]

I dropped two sentences, but you only pointed out the "only twice as much" part

[pliant venture]

yeah cause you're making it not seem like an issue with that wording

[sage delta]

You said “Only twice as much” twice as much is a shit ton more, I literally get 8 more totems my guy

[languid marsh]

I don’t see 8 extra totems maximum as that much of a problem

[clear stone]

It's as much an issue as a non trying to make profit from ingredient grinding, but being "unable to" because they don't get 8 totems like Champions do

[sage delta]

16 totems with silverbull

[pastel minnow]

It’s evident that none of you ingredient grind.

[sage delta]

I’m not even talking about ingredients anymore

[pliant venture]

i ing grind as my main source of money wdym

[pastel minnow]

What ingredients are you using totems for?

[pliant venture]

pot chips, charms, naval stones, t0/t1 ings like manis, etc.

[languid marsh]

Snail 8 totems on maximum 1 hour and 20 minutes, is it really “that” game changing?

[pliant venture]

we're kinda derailing the convo tbh

[languid marsh]

I think it’s semi important to the nuance of “buffing” them by adding silver

[pliant venture]

anyone who makes money using totems gets their income doubled

[sage delta]

Mythic grinders be cheering rn

[pastel minnow]

Not really. The additional time is a huge factor aswell

[pliant venture]

yeah ofc time is an issue but im under the assumption that you use all of them

[languid marsh]

I use to grind acid magma for awhile, I found totems would about x3 my efficiency but it’s only for that “hour” it turns a 3 hour grind to only 1 hour. I don’t see that as “extremely” changing or op

[pliant venture]

in your situation double totems would change a 6 hour grind to a 2 hour (technically 1 hour 20 min) one

(if you were throwing dloot bombs thats a huge money save)

not to mention if you're using consus

the difference between totem vs no totem is pretty huge, thats why nobody mythic grinds without totems

[sage delta]

Waiting for the one dude who mythic grinds without totems to come in

[pliant venture]

yeah i can't really speak about mythic grinding too much since i don't do it, but i would assume with double totems the moment a broken spot gets found the market is just gonna die

you could argue thats a good thing but thats a discussion for another day

[pastel minnow]

Im not going to lie the biggest reason it’s not at all an issue is because using all those totems is so genuinely fuciing boring that you can’t consistently use them all without wanting to off urself.

I currently when I do gring use 16 and I can’t do it for more than like 3 days in a row without getting burnt out

I have more than 16 totems a day I have smth like 30-40 but actually trying to use them all is just impossible

[sage delta]

Proffers when they hear about something being boring:

Runescape players when someone complains about profs being boring:

https://tenor.com/view/first-time-meme-first-time-the-ballad-of-buster-scruggs-gif-24656975

[pliant venture]

Nah I’m definitely with you on that

Still tho the money potential is there

[pastel minnow]

That’s just totems in general. Do you want totems removed from ranks entirely? Like yes you speed up the process of leveling and making money by buying ranks and supporting the server. There are still alternative ways to level and make le without spending irl money. It really feels like a non issue

Also genuinely at the moment loot running is more efficient than totem grinding for mythics

[pliant venture]

That won’t always be the case, like perhaps 16 totems/acc isn’t an issue now but when a broken spot gets found it’ll 100% be an issue

Imo it’s better to prevent the issue as a whole

[pastel minnow]

Im trying to understand here. Do you see an issue with totems in general or only rhe x2 from silver bullets

[clear stone]

Yeah, remove totems from ranks altogether

[pliant venture]

I personally am against totems as a whole but rn only discussing the 2x

Totems are definitely already part of the game and that won’t be changing, main problem right now is the 2x

[pastel minnow]

So thoughts and feelings on me just buying another champion account? Is that unfair and shouldn’t be allowed?

[clear stone]

Really, my problem here is making seem like paying for 2x totems is an unfair advantage, while you yourself already paid and have more free totems than the average Wynncrafter

It makes one look like a hypocrite

[pliant venture]

That’s a good question tbh, I’d say that Wynn doesn’t really have control over that whereas with silverbull they do

[clear stone]

If they really want to keep extra totems, then would 1.5x instead of 2x feel more reasonable?

[pliant venture]

You can have paid for an advantage but be against the addition of more p2w

[pastel minnow]

I really don’t see how totems are an issue tbh. Spots (that don’t exist anymore) absolutely. Using exploits with tjem absolutely but totems in general are really not an issue and a perfectly reasonable perk for a paid rank

[pliant venture]

Yeah for general use it shouldn’t be as much of an issue

[pliant venture]

Do all good mythic spots fall under exploits? Not too informed here

Like was Toa and Avos considered exploits

[clear stone]

Assuming lootrunning is meant to be the optimal Mythic grinding way, would any farming spot fall under exploits?

[pastel minnow]

No previously people were using shaman funky stuff with housing to abuse double ids to make mythic grinding SUPER efficient

The CT has made it abundantly clear they intend for lootrunning to be better than mythic mob grinding and have nerfed literally any spot that is more efficient

And will likely continue to do so when fruma comes out

[pliant venture]

Though there inevitably will be new spots found

Even if they get nerfed quickly it still has an impact

[pastel minnow]

You can’t just get rid of a genuinely good perk and a huge reason for people to get ranks because people can gain a minute advantage for a single day

Like that just doesn’t make any sense

[pliant venture]

Are you talking about 2x or totems as a whole?

[pastel minnow]

Id be highly impressed it there were more than 2 undiscovered useable spots on tbe map currently. And even those i doubt will be particular advantageous

[pastel minnow]

Either ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[pliant venture]

Cause I agree with you about totems as a whole, but for 2x totems I don’t think they would get used much outside of the context of mythic grinding

Ig for xp which is fine?

[pastel minnow]

There are like 4 people who mythic grind at the moment homie like before CT fixed all the spots if agree with you. But they made their stance incredibly clear

The current mythic grinders are Ichika and a couple people from the Anime Lovers guild like Jeta

Literally no one else grinds mythics from mobs

[pliant venture]

Yeah right now, nothing says that another ToA won’t appear

Ct can only fix after the fact

[pastel minnow]

Oh no a day of grinding :(

The scandal!

[pliant venture]

Nah it’ll probably be longer than a day

Assuming people don’t suck at hiding it

[pastel minnow]

People do suck at hiding those spots. Especially now with wynntils 1.19.3 they get found instantly by other players as soon as 1 guy finds it

[pastel minnow]

No mobs outside quest mobs spawn like ToA does nor will any ever get added realistically and grinding quest mobs is bannable like 🤔

[pliant venture]

i mean mistakes happen, but i get that thats a hypothetical

[languid marsh]

Grinding quest mobs is bannable??? I never knew this could you give alittle more context?

[pastel minnow]

If a mob is part of quest progression you are not allowed to grind it for items or xp. I believe the same is for secret discovery but not 100% sure on that second one @rain iris could probably let you know

Ichika is typing…

[rain iris]

The rules for this are so unbelievably fucked tbh
First and foremost, regardless of where you're grinding (Unless you're abusing some absurd exploit or really stupid loot table (you'll know if you are or not because it will be obvious)) you'll always get a warning to switch spots first

Secondly, the rules state any mobs used for quest or discovery progression, not necessarily idle mobs. Some mods have said that it's every quest mob regardless, some discovery areas have been grinded like Avos Assassins in Corkus (so the rule really is vague, even though I specifically had it rewritten so that it encompassed only progression mobs, and assumed the other staff members were on the same page with that one, as we went over it many times)
Best bet is to just avoid mobs from quests, discoveries, and dungeons all together, but like, yeah. Like said, you should receive a warning before anything to switch spots (and this is per spot, not per player)

[clear stone]

Can't they just disable loot drops for quest mobs tbh?

[rain iris]

They absolutely can

[languid marsh]

Am kinda confused what’s the point? Is it just the spawn rate of mobs/the xp/ or the items?

[rain iris]

and they can prevent mobs from being totemed all together

[shell elk]

I love getting players banned

[rain iris]

Not to bash ct, but I have no idea why this isn't done like

[clear stone]

It would save everyone from so much headache

[rain iris]

when the quest is made, and the mobs are made, just prevent them from being able to be spawned by totems

[pastel minnow]

I believe largely Bcz you being there grinding tjem stops other people from being able to complete the quests and discoveries

[clear stone]

Switch servers

[rain iris]

And yes, recently there was a player banned for grinding in a quest area without a warning received, who had items deleted which shouldn't have been deleted, so I cannot say that for certain you will receive a warning first, but that is our general procedure and ruling 💀

[languid marsh]

If everyone starts doing it I understand why that could be a problem

[pastel minnow]

A player shouldn’t have to switch servers to do a quest because someone is grinding. And no person who has thrown dloot is switching worlds for a quester lol

[rain iris]

this yeah

[languid marsh]

Ok wild, but back to the topic of silver.

[rain iris]

Regarding the topic (in my own personal opinion) I don't see an issue with totems. The only thing totems do is give you increased spawn rates for a short time. So if you have 20min of totems, you can grind for like an hour without totems and have the same item drops as the person who grinded for 20min with totems. Because totems are limited per account, I don't see an issue

And regarding the 2x totems, someone can otherwise just get a new account and give it a rank (which ultimately will cost less than the silverbull in the long run) so I don't understand why it's so much more frowned upon to have totems with the silverbull than people who have ranked alt accounts

[languid marsh]

I’m not sure if I understood silverbull enough, if a free to play player uses a silverbull what effects to they get? How does x2 totems works and such? My only hope for silverbull is for free to play players to have an “option” to “earn a rank” even if it’s temporary. I use those terms loosely

[clear stone]

Pretty sure 2x0 is still 0 so...

Idk

[pastel minnow]

ngl vip is like 5 bucks if u can afford a subscrption but cant afford 5 bucks for lowest rank like 🤔

[clear stone]

Yeah, I feel like this was designed intentionally with that in mind

[languid marsh]

It’s that you can buy silverbull on Tm so you can “earn” it for “free”

[pliant venture]

silverbull is way cheaper than getting a new acc with rank because you can trade for it

[pastel minnow]

I do kinda see it but it makes sense from the server side of things. The double rank rewards is a very minor part of the subscrption perks and it just encourages people to also buy a rank to get the most out of it

[languid marsh]

My only point it gives players the option to grind for “rank rewards” without having to spend money. I know the first like 5 years playing Minecraft I was like 13 and wasn’t allowed to spend any money on games like that.

[clear stone]

The point is to make money for the server

[rain iris]

You can only trade Silverbull shares (not the rank itself)
Silverbull Shares are their own item, while you do get them monthly if you have the Silverbull Rank Subscription, you can also buy Silverbull shares on their own in the wynncraft store, which you then can trade

[languid marsh]

People still need to buy silver bulls to sell them on the market…

[pastel minnow]

which some people szeem to have a huge issue with for no fkn reason

[pliant venture]

seems like i have misunderstood then, ty

[pastel minnow]

from my understanding the shares are just straight up store credit (which u should be able to buy a rank with)\

[languid marsh]

Oh I misunderstood what shares were then

You can buy ranks with shares right?

[pliant venture]

yeah this is how i thought they would function, tbh we don't have much info so 🫠

[pastel minnow]

yeah its a skull moment

[cloud panther]

dawg this has probably happened a single or low double digit number of times

[cloud panther]

i think because it started to be an issue after SE quests

(and from looking through files a tiny bit it is a massive pain to remove the drops from these mobs and nobody is doing it because the ct generally does not care about that aspect of the game i could imagine)

[pastel minnow]

Been an issue since Amadel grinding 😳

Slightly different issue but same principle

[cloud panther]

fair amadel grinding was

definitely something,,

love how quest mobs have higher than baseline loot mults to drop quest items and then they get hard abused lmfao

[outer bronze]

Silverbull is so stupid, we all know what we really want

Platinumbull subscription.

[pastel minnow]

Mythic bull or bust. $50 a month

[sage delta]

Mythicbull subscription $50 a month and you get 1 mythic, a pipebomb, and Salted personally emailing you about how stupid you are

[languid marsh]

I’d buy it

[fervent junco]

i’d get boots every time

[clear stone]

A pipebomb 🙏

[hardy swallow]

at this point I'm just worried that the sub itself will only give untradable shares, limiting the p2w of the sub to instead have people drop 50 bucks on the store directly to get 10 shares to flood the market with instantly

I don't know what the intention of tradable vs untradable shares is, perhaps untradables are only rewards from events or contests for example, but as far as shares go, I'm less opposed to them being generated over time via subs than in bulk from the store

but then someone couldnt drop their credit card on the store to get rich in game so. the store shares probably arent changing

[queen coral]

wynncraft team doing all that work to keep most of the store filled with cosmetic stuff and ranks, everybody used to say 'wow, this server isnt p2w', and now they add silverbull which is litterly buying emeralds cuz you can sell them so easily

[maiden spear]

scam price for the amount of emeralds u get if ur getting them to do that

[languid marsh]

People spending $5 irl for 27 le

Imo worth if your like a lvl 20 noob but that’s about it lol

[outer bronze]

guess who buys LE the most

random low levels who don't want to farm

[maiden spear]

they arent gonna figur it out anyways

not like that low amount of LE is helpful if ur a noob

or any amount if ur playing normally

[outer bronze]

do you mean low level ppl wont figure out irl trading? they totally do

[worldly axle]

and then you realise you cant buy anything on the server anyway thats of any meaningful worth

[queen coral]

Morph-set best set

[worldly axle]

no

[errant raft]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/262010576295821312/1076848411598405642/dupermonay.gif

[worldly axle]

people having those wont be banned (surely)

(unless someone actually bought that many )

[maiden spear]

u is not the mathematician

[gentle herald]

I told yall it will get easily duped

[languid marsh]

Oh god what happened

[pastel minnow]

?

[loud crane]

uh oh lol

[loud crane]

oh are they referring to this?

[pastel minnow]

Ong not a faked screenshot!

[languid marsh]

Honestly after some time. I find the biggest silver bull “buff” is being able to scrap 3 cosmetics instead of 5

[cloud panther]

totems

[languid marsh]

It’s just “too many” to use. I’ll use 3 totems a day maybe on average. I don’t ingredience grind tho

[cloud panther]

understandable

[worldly axle]

u using 3 totems tops a day = its not the strongest buff 😂

[sage delta]

Most people don’t use their totems everyday and when they do don’t even use all of them. And the people that this is a buff for (ing grinders) already have alts and friends with totems

[worldly axle]

xept those alts then have even more totems 🤯 it is the strongest buff in the whole subscription i mean what else is stronger

[sage delta]

I honestly don’t think its that bad, more totems is meh for like 90% of the playerbase, and a boon for people who wanna level alts, only things its really “bad” for is Mythic Grinding and Ing Grinding

[worldly axle]

im not saying its bad im just saying its the strongest feature