guardian mana

[wooden cloak]

Increase mana on guardian????
Why other items with mana 1/5 now higher but guard still 1

[lucid pawn]

cries in fatal

[bitter fable]

cata

[storm briar]

to make them less roll dependent apparently, still dumb though

[young orchid]

i dont think guard needs a buff

[elfin shale]

its not even a buff 🤣

1mr in 2.0 is basically 0

they just removed a whole stat even after the huge major id nerf

[wooden cloak]

so true my favorite taq strategist @elfin shale

[young orchid]

and yet guardian still remains the most busted warrior mythic

so

[lucid pawn]

laughs in alkatraz

[young orchid]

alka only has use in wars

[lucid pawn]

ive seen people use alka in raids and shred bosses

[young orchid]

guardian is good in wars and raids. I think that diversity overshadows alka's bustedness in raids

[young orchid]

and ive seen people shred greg by themselves ("shred" being a loose descriptor, more like licking a piece of paper until the saliva dissolves the wood)

with guardian i mean

[lucid pawn]

meh

you can solo greg with lament / monster, doing it with guardian is self torture

[young orchid]

i mean i solo'd greg with hero because im the goat B) but guardian is definitely the most consistent okay and this is a discussion about warrior mythics lmfao?

[lucid pawn]

ik im just saying that its self torture to do it with guardian

[young orchid]

doesnt refute that guardian is the strongest warrior mythic

[lucid pawn]

idol is more expensive tho

[wooden cloak]

leave both from my constructive_feedback, ty

[vestal lark]

price != power

[young orchid]

me when my feedback gets feedback 🤯

[wooden cloak]

u are just discussing useless topics

[young orchid]

this you?

[elfin shale]

this people are not sane 🤣

[still lion]

Wynntils affecting the way items are balanced is so doom

[young orchid]

?

[still lion]

That's why guardian and all the other mythics with base 1 rolls stayed at base 1 instead of being scaled up for 1.0 mana

[wooden cloak]

????

[young orchid]

what does that have to do with wynntils lmao 💀
just because wynntils shows you the possible rolls?
Might as well also blame Wynnbuilder's Item Search because it also shows you the possible rolls and "would affect the prices"

[still lion]

💀

Did yall really not know

[wooden cloak]

only contrast(12mr) and guard in hand

wynntils problem??

[young orchid]

Even if you did have a point, I can't think of a less apocalyptic event than "oh my god a wildly successful 3rd party mod has caused 1 item to lose out on 1 mana regen"

but nah everyone get your :doom: emojis out

[still lion]

What

[wooden cloak]

(nvm)

[still lion]

It was even in the item changelog post in the item team thread

It's not a secret that mythics are basically all priced based on wynntils %

[young orchid]

wow that is a hilariously stupid conclusion

[still lion]

Wynntils doesn't display a % on IDs that are base 1 since they can't be rolled, so they don't contribute to the overall % of the item

[young orchid]

Yes, mythic prices are based on wynntils %, but without wynntils the stat values still have rolls?

[still lion]

So if the item team scaled up the bases for 2.0 mana, those IDs would suddenly become rollable, and their % would affect the item's overall %

[elfin shale]

that happened with obli tho

[still lion]

Which would cause trade market players to go all apeshit over their mythic value being ruined and stuff

[still lion]

[young orchid]

Without wynntils, a 1.0 Guard going from
x y z stats and 1/5 mr to 7/5 mr in 2.0
is gonna have a different price than a 1.0 guard with similar
x y z stats and 1/5 mr going to 2/5 mr in 2.0

[still lion]

Also what

[still lion]

Yeah, I guess for oblivion the "gimmick is dead" issue was a bigger priority than "make sure trade marketeers are happy"

[vale crow]

also this isnt about wynntils % (more just about makign stuff not roll dependent changing the existing guards' prices)

[young orchid]

^

[vale crow]

just so happens that wynntils % displays how good a roll is

[still lion]

Only if people care about true rolls and all that and go through the process of using WIM to figure it out

[still lion]

True, but it is wynntils though...

[young orchid]

Just because wynntils displays the percentage of a stat, does not mean that it is the reason that stat didn't become roll dependant

[vale crow]

although i will say wynntils making 80% the green threshold has definitely influenced prices

[young orchid]

true

[still lion]

I guess yall weren’t in the ask IMs thread where people specifically discussed the mythic base 1 changes (or lack thereof) during beta

And the IMs are aware that wynntils affects market prices, and that people will always flame the IMs for hurting their mythic prices 🤯

[young orchid]

So who the fuck is supposed to be mad? Guardian users who now don't have their mythic price ruined? Or Guardian users who now are stuck with 4 less mana than they would have 🥺🥺

[lucid pawn]

proceeds to cry In fatal mana steal

But fr not buffing items accordingly just because of wyntills is whack

Why not just increase the mana Regen/steal of said items but make it a solid unrollable value

It's that simple smh

[still lion]

Item system won't allow for it

Either all the IDs are rolled or they're not

[lucid pawn]

how did fatal guardian and other items with 1 mana and rollable ID's exist in 1.20 ?

wait for that matter how do they exist right now?

[raven pelican]

me when cata gets oneshot by everything but it's allegedly OP and needs a nerf

"Actually Cata is able to do remarkable dps for assassin's standards and the negative 4000 health max is just an inconvenience" nerdge

[shy ivy]

not true

actually maybe for guardian it was idk i know cataclysm was an intentional decision i'm honestly not that sure why guardian received the same treatment

but we have never and will never take people's mods in account for anything

but yes, mythics' worth is somewhat considered even though ideally we wouldn't have to- but that generally moreso comes down to avoiding entirely fucking people's networth over than making sure singular items arbitrary "wynntils number" doesn't change

[lucid pawn]

literaly just do that

and you wont have to fuck up people's networth

[shy ivy]

we can't do that

we literally can't do that

if we could we likely would but we can't

[lucid pawn]

huh why ?

[shy ivy]

did you think we could just make random IDs static? items have base values and there is then a consistent range applied to that
we can't make a specific stat on a specific item suddenly static, and it would be such an odd exception from how that stat works on all other items that we probably shouldn't either

[lucid pawn]

wait so you are telling me you cant just add a 0 behind the 1 and leave it be ?

cuz then how does contrast have 12 mana regen

[raven pelican]

how'd you do it with skill points?

[shy ivy]

all skill points were made static, meaning they were made excempt from the standard roll range applied which is something that can be done (otherwise you'd also have like, rolled req ranges or something lol) but it can only be done for entire IDs and not item/rarity specific

[raven pelican]

OH I didn't know we were talking about specific items what

[shy ivy]

merchant items are unrollable (or pre-identified, technically) meaning they have the same roll on all their IDs every version of the item

[shy ivy]

this thread is literally called "guardian mana" lol

[raven pelican]

yeah, but threads go off topic all the time, I didn't know this dude was saying "yo just make guardian's mana 10 static" or whatever

[raven pelican]

didn't read this lmao

also why did fatal get the 1 mana treatment? like it's a good item I guess, but it was never up there with monster warp singu lament (although for different reasons)

pure lmao

[lucid pawn]

yeah you can hardly sell an average fatal for 2-3 stx i rly dont get it

[raven pelican]

I mean I don't think price is everything

when something just isn't as good it's not as good, fatal has a cool damage range, but its average isn't anything too crazy

[remote badger]

i probably dont understand enough about the system but whats stopping you from just making the range 5-5 so theres only one possible roll?

[shy ivy]

read the message you quoted again the explanation for why we can't do that is right there

[vale crow]

I mean u could just recode the item identification system

[still lion]

🤯

[wooden cloak]

what problem with this?

[still lion]

This

[remote badger]

So the item basically got nerfed because they didn’t want to ruin a green number on a 3rd party mod

Same with fatal?

Ik cata was intentional

[young orchid]

citied coming in 6 days late to repeat an exact argument thats already been had 💀

average assassin main

[raven pelican]

my brother in christ that was your job in SDU

[young orchid]

TRUE

ACTUALLY SO TRUE

[remote badger]

dude i dont even play that class u could not be more wrong

also POV you expect me to read like 15 paragraphs up just bcause i feel like it

will we be writing an essay on the topic too poffessor?

[still lion]

Truly a wynntils issue

[shy ivy]

fatal's change was intentional as well but i honestly could not tell you why guardian was also put to base 1

[raven pelican]

I don't think I remember when Fatal was actually like really good, the powder nerf hit it pretty hard and it just seem really underwhelming especially in the damage area and it's a thunder mythic

the extremely inconsistent damage is really cool I have to admit, but it really only hurts the weapon I feel

[shy ivy]

only like 2 years ago it's not that long ago and it's not bad even now

[raven pelican]

I mean it's not unusable, but it feels weak

[shy ivy]

fatal without massive damage range isn't fatal this is like suggesting guardian shouldn't have health regen

[raven pelican]

I think you'd be better off going monster arcanist over like fatal riftwalker or riftbender

yeah and I'm not saying it shouldn't, but maybe raise the high end a bit

the way I see it it's just a worse quetz at the moment

[still lion]

High damage range doesn’t matter too much in the long run anyways

[lucid pawn]

@dusty vale yeah it was in here