Assassin fix ideas hub

[limber night]

read the thread name dawg

[fallow echo]

this is an assassin thread

we're discussing the ideas about acro changes

[limber night]

#assassin ass club

we dont care

[fallow echo]

wait i'll bump for u

[limber night]

ok i guess we do care then

[fallow echo]

I will only bump my suggestion.

L: 😎

[silk steeple]

ooh mf i cant upload the video because i dont have mfing nitro

imma just showcase my current playstyle and dip

i guess this works
skill issues

lacerate hitboxes are still too quirky for me to figure out

[gloomy urchin]

Assassin should be the class with the highest dps because it has no range

[silk steeple]

what is lacerate range actually

im like 3 blocks above and it aint hitting

above the dummies not the ground*

[silent belfry]

smoke bomb and jasmine have good range, imo it needs a more consistent damage source with a medium ranged tho

[silk steeple]

shurikens frfr

and sugo is just gon

[silent belfry]

I only use jasmine for damage i fly 6000 blocks above the enemy and wait

[silk steeple]

yeah
useful as hell

[silent belfry]

I win eventually

It's like paladin but with the option to deal damage

[quartz sage]

everyone says they can fly forever but those videos are shit

[silent belfry]

?

[quartz sage]

they hav like 2 cps

[silent belfry]

So you're suggesting you have more? so wouldnt it be easier to fly?

[quartz sage]

i mean i fly better than in those videos

[silent belfry]

Cool

[quartz sage]

and sugo says he can fly forever and iots easy

[silk steeple]

right you want fly, lemme record a vid

[silent belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/animal-ok-and-gif-21608135

What's your point?

[quartz sage]

nvm dont bother sad cat

[silk steeple]

here you go
im too lazy to go back to my housing so yep

too late to say that idk

thats how i fly
just a shitton of lacerates and dash then hop (take wall jump in this case, the -1s cd helps a lot)

i cycle dash for cost reset and a S L I G H T bit of mobility
it doesnt seem to do much midair for me unless i spam it eternally

how much mr?

hmm what weapon do you use
specialist?

goddamn i get 50

and once the minions start spawning in (in that clip i sent) weightless just carried most of my mana
if i spam like that without any enemies in range of jasmine though then i either chill and not spam or i run out of mana

im not sure how but my first build as acro gets more lacerate damage last time i checked it on builder
1sec

if you are like
really obsessed with mr
then you can probably just get a build based around aquarius and riverflow
(aquarius idk but riverflow is cheap compared to resu)

with both of those on max mr rolls you can get 83mr

[unborn swallow]

Shurikens need to proc mana and life steal. But to not make it stupid op make it a fixed % value

Like for example value for s.fast

[silk steeple]

me with -ms

[unborn swallow]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[unborn swallow]

Also this would make ricochets more viable option to take too, I guess

[silent belfry]

Like it procs them with -% effectiveness yeah

[unborn swallow]

Just independent of attack speed

[unborn swallow]

Well, because that's the change a lot of the people wants

[silent belfry]

Hmm, well lets try condense stuff first. Identify major issues. But gotta wake up early tmrw and its quite late so not today sorry

[sly quail]

can i join

[violet atlas]

They should make a forum with each person only being able to send like 250 characters each where each person condenses all their ideas for assassin

So the devs have an actual place where they can see ideas without having to scroll through the 2k msges here

@fallow echo soz for ping but you seem like an expert on acro, is this decent enough to do raids and stuff?

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder#5_07R0mG0r507W0nu0050ZR0Ji0pT0P1B1Y1k1S1g000010009Izz++++-

Oh I forgot the tree, it’s just typical acro tree

[silk steeple]

idk if you can sustain with that cost and mana
sure its acrobat but yeah mana is a bit worrying without nirv (but since you do raids the buffs in it should get you enough sustain)
the stats are good so mhm

[rain sleet]

i was able to sustain with morph mr 🤯

by sustain i soloed every endgame boss excluding panic zealot and raid bosses

[silk steeple]

got damn ig weightless is even more powerful than i ever thought

[violet atlas]

I can fly pretty well

I think

[rain sleet]

weithless is insane yes

[violet atlas]

When do you use weightless lol

[silk steeple]

like all the time?

[violet atlas]

I thought its 5s per airborne then u can’t use it

[silk steeple]

that's righting reflex

[violet atlas]

Ohhh lol

[silk steeple]

weightless is like
gain mana when hitting enemies while being airborne

[violet atlas]

Whoops mb

Still uh when do you use righting reflex

[silk steeple]

0.7 mana per hit and every goddamn hit counts
your jasmine bloom, your multihit and everything

[silk steeple]

for me also almost all the time

its useful to stay in the air and strafe around using hop and lacerate

[violet atlas]

But it has a limit per airborne?

Or does that reset after like unsneaking?

[silk steeple]

resets when you touch the ground
I dash up, align to range where my multihits can hit, righting reflex and start spamming mobility stuff
only when I'm dangerously close to the ground I cancel it and either reset the timer or use those mobility stuff to boost back up

[stiff hawk]

nah but they really need to fix righting reflex's interaction with the edges of blocks

makes me actually want to bring ability shards to ice barrows if i could, just to get rid of it while shifting through the maze

[silk steeple]

ice+weird detection moment

[slim lintel]

this thread is the best wynncraft discussion across the forums and the discord, thanks for all the cool tips/feedback

[quartz sage]

too bad no dev reads it

[celest kiln]

we dont know that

dont give up on hope, for all we could know they could be coding some new assassin stuff right now 🥹

[austere bronze]

lol good one

[violet atlas]

They’re coding the removal of assassin to occur in 6 days at the next hotfix

They’re gonna bridge the tiny gap between assassin and warrior and just turn every assassin into a warrior

[celest kiln]

better than what assassin is enduring right now

[violet atlas]

Ppl won’t even notice the diff in playstyle, they’ll just see an increase in dmg

[celest kiln]

😢

[quartz sage]

😢

[gloomy urchin]

The biggest major issue and the two easiest changes are probably that overall, the dps of assassin is really low compared to the other classes when it really should be the highest dps for how risky/skill based it is
And then echo should only reduce the damage of your clones (and clones could do with a shorter cool-down)

Probably the easiest temporary changes to implement for now so the ct can get to the full rework later

[silent belfry]

Maybe push assassin to be more skill based

[plucky jewel]

just increase assassins dps by like 10% magically

[silent belfry]

Reward them for doing stuff

[plucky jewel]

pro strats

[gloomy urchin]

Oh and reduce knockback for assassin

[silent belfry]

Maybe replace double spin with something that gives knockback reduction and speed increase

[plucky jewel]

make it so shadestepper cant get hit out of vanish 👍 so annoying

(dont ask how that will help other archetypes)

[olive reef]

Bruh shurikens are so useless since they fire in the direction you are looking its annoying/not worth using it when you are flying around as acrobat.

[slim lintel]

considering how many ability points you can invest in them, I'm surprised they dont have more synergy with the acro kit

[olive reef]

There is just no point of turning, aiming and main attacking while your in the air with only a chance of some of them hit. Plus if you don't want to fall you have to turn back quickly which makes the 2 shurikens after the first one not hit most of the time. Its better to just keep using other abilities to maintain flight and deal dps

I like the concept of them but it seems like there is few situations where it is worth using

[slim lintel]

if they added some utility it could be worth it, I think they're currently just a bit of damage right?

quick option for more mana, debuffing, extending bloom, something idk

[olive reef]

100% of your dps per shuriken or something

Most annoying part about them is just the aiming imo

[violet atlas]

You mean shade and trickster more skill based

[violet atlas]

Imo it just needs a better way to get to its targets, basically more dash momentum or a tp alt ability of dash like Hypixel Skyblock’s silent death

Simply running at your enemies with shadow travel seems uh…

[fallow echo]

oh what in the world I didn't get a notification for this mb sry for late reply

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder#7_07R0mG0r507W0nu0050ZR0Ji0pT0P1B1Y1k1S1g000010009Izz++++-ldnlTV71
this is the tree but lemme fix ur mana rq

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder#7_07R0K70r507W0050K20K40OM09e0y0E1m1V1D1g00001004fIzz++++-ldnlTV71
WynnBuilder build:

Cancer֎
Soulflare
Vaward
Capricorn
Summa
Moon Pool Circlet
Prowess
Diamond Hydro Necklace
Manna [w6w6w6]

ewfa manna but you need to be extra careful around greater ones in tna

[gloomy urchin]

Any hit will cancel all of dash’s momentum due to knockback

[silent belfry]

With the speed you get imo it's fine, enemies don't hit you that much in vanish. And still, vanish not being a tp or making you invulnerable makes it so you still need to dodge, but you get a ton of speed

Removing that skill makes it too easy imo

[violet atlas]

Isn’t that a bit low on dmg?

Idk I wanted to use specialist since I have a decent roll one

[slim lintel]

ah, looks like another week of no ass changes

[silent belfry]

Don't worry it's cause salted is working on a HUGE assassin patch with every change we want

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[muted ether]

"Fixed a bug where triggering Hop and Leap while having a negative Jump Boost effect would launch you too high" assassin nerf actually

[plucky jewel]

get real its acrobat

(not shadestepper)

(not relevant)

[silk steeple]

buff acrobat oml

[silk steeple]

ily wackolo

[quartz sage]

is sticky bomb better or ricochets

[sly quail]

i don't blame them for taking their time

taking your time = better result

unless they're just ignoring everyone

[silk steeple]

I personally don't use shurikens so I'd take sticky

[silk steeple]

perhaps a bit too much time
a lot of messages telling to improve assassin already exist since like public beta

[sly quail]

how did you get to sticky bomb and ricochets at the same time

[silk steeple]

and the most prominent change I remember was lacerate getting more damage

[sly quail]

maybe, but that just gives us time to create that thread

[rain sleet]

I get blazing powder

[sly quail]

blazing doesn't work on lacerate btw

lacerate kinda bugged

[rain sleet]

NOOO

[silk steeple]

the damage should work tho

my life is a lie if it doesnt

[rain sleet]

oh it should

[sly quail]

according to birb the damage doesn't work but the blind might

[rain sleet]

OK if it's. A bug I'm too lazy to reset tree

[sly quail]

the blind probably also doesn't work

[rain sleet]

If it's not ill die

[sly quail]

it's definitely a bug, if it's not they'd block each other. also lacerate also didn't work with hoodwink last time i checked meaning it has a history of being bugged with other abilities

[silk steeple]

the exact opposite of my theory(?

[sly quail]

is your theory just "by spin attack they mean spin and not lacerate"

cause i feel like they would've blocked each other if they were incompatible

[quartz sage]

wdym both at the same time

[silk steeple]

no
it's simple
I thought the blind didn't work and the damage did
might be placebo but I felt like my dps increased a teeny bit when I compare blazing and w/o blazing

[sly quail]

are you sure it's not just you imagining things because you expect your dps to increase with blazing

[silk steeple]

blazing makes me expect my dps to increase

[sly quail]

yeah, if you're looking for an increase in dps your mind will imagine it for you

i know what it's called in cantonese but i have no idea what it's called in english

the effect, i mean

[rain sleet]

Placebo

It's called placebo

[simple plover]

We all love Wack

[olive reef]

Time to wait another week for another hotfix and it not be an assassin buff

[slim lintel]

[neat radish]

back baby

[simple plover]

Ily 2

nvm light mode user i take that bacl

[silk steeple]

wait theres a dark mode on forums???

[simple plover]

ye

[silk steeple]

holy shit

[empty ravine]

I wanna say this is the onlymajor thread a CT member hasnt been to

[neat radish]

also this is the majorest thread

literally we got 2.1k posts ffs

[empty ravine]

Exactly?

[gloomy urchin]

Thread so big we made a whole server for it

[plucky jewel]

💀

[simple plover]

starry night >>>> light mode

[plucky jewel]

brb testing

lets see
light mode - no real problems
starry night - the like different things dont blend
like Rules & Information doesnt work with The Noticeboard
Full Dark - too dark, and background changes which is eh

hallowynn - full dark but slight reskins here and there
25 days of christmas - honestly might be better than journey light mode thingy, cool background and nice and bright

northern glow - also cool, basically a starry night reskin but less cool

actually yeah who cares about Journey - Light Theme when 25 Days of Christmas >>>> all

[slim lintel]

reposting from another feedback thread re: Parry improvement ideas

I won't begin to think I understand intelligent balance design in wynncraft, but random ideas could be:

1. Successful dodges ignore the knockback effect
2. Automatically cast lacerate when dodging, on a ~2 second cooldown (or maybe base spin attack to prevent adversely affecting mobility?) or shurikens at the enemy who hit you (maybe this could be source of additional dps which seems to be the primary concern in most acrobat discussions)
3. Increasing mana regen for a fixed period of time (could vary between strength of regen and whether it has a cooldown) instead of a single-spell benefit on a cooldown. Or adding mana steal for a fixed period (scaling off air damage to synergize with dodge?) to the player to incentivize playing close (and getting in dodges) to keep up mobility/damage via mana stealing. This could also make gear builds more diverse if Parry is more capable at keeping regen sufficient
4. Next attack after dodging gains bonus damage scaling with air damage
   but maybe those are super busted/terrible, vOv

[tawny hemlock]

i quite like the "throw shurikens at enemies who proc Parry" idea

[olive reef]

Yea

Honestly that would be better then the normal shuriken ability

just give all shurkiens homing

[umbral elk]

Assassin doesn't need buffing, the other classes need nerfing

[slim lintel]

All of them?

[umbral elk]

yes, including assassin

[silent belfry]

It does need better gameplay and qol

[umbral elk]

tru tru

It's hard for me to put my tongue on what acro needs but I know it needs something

[sly quail]

more dps, less getting stunlocked by arrow storm

[silk steeple]

i
need more speed on attacks
aeugh

[neat radish]

When we gonna reach 2.3k posts 💀💀

E

Well we’re at 2.2k now, @silent belfry should we add more ppl to the server

[silent belfry]

Alright guys who wants to discuss assassin fixes

[rain sleet]

maybe a different sub with actual ideas

instead of 2k msg in that we could have ONLY ASSASSIN IDEAS no weird msg and stuff

[humble meteor]

maybe split this into 3 to begin with
shadestepper: most commen assasin in 1.20
trickstar: currently most usefull
acrobat: very new playstyle focused on mobilaty

[fading radish]

battle monk：Acrobat is a joke

[neat radish]

we do have a server dedicated to that, and making a megathread in the forums so the CT can actually read it, limited to a few ppl doe dont want a assassin fix ideas hub #2

[humble meteor]

a diffrent server does not make devs of wynn look

split the issues up cus this is too broad for anyone

it make more sense as a dev to make a todo list and closing threads as things gets added

[silent belfry]

No its just a better place to compile and get ideas, then post it somewhere that can be found

[humble meteor]

guilds split their politics in to multiple servers to make them heard but that also mean the general public never knows whats going on when they have real problem with the way things work

"i havent heard anything from the guild community" - salted

[silent belfry]

You just ignored what I said

Its not a place to give feedback, its to work together to create more concise and collected feedback where it can be posted

Planning, then posting

Random ramblings and rants isnt good feedback, its hard to read and analyze

[humble meteor]

i know but its much harder to know what people relly think if you plan posts

the devs shouldnt have to be detectives to figure out what a troll post is and what is not

[silent belfry]

Huh???

How what???

[silent belfry]

That has nothing to do with it??

[humble meteor]

you sure you are planning to post prepared things and not show the discussion itself wich could be confused for a troll post depending on size

[silent belfry]

A troll post is pretty easily identifiable, there will be dumb suggestions

And we can include the thought process and reasons for changes in the post

[humble meteor]

then pull the discussion here or in diffrent threads ther is no reason to keep that hidden

[silent belfry]

Its just much easier to organise

And again, muddled conversation is one of the WORST ways to find feedback

[humble meteor]

well the feedback still needs to be authentic rather then copy paste

one of the jobs of the content team is sorting out that conversation

[silent belfry]

The whole point of a post is to sort that info so its readable, ordered, and easy to understand

There is a reason people make essays not long rants about topics

[humble meteor]

you can still keep your ordered discussions but please make sure all proposals u find are posted in #1019649786799996980 instead of having 1 solution for everything all at once

[gloomy urchin]

All the stuff we’re putting into this one post that we’re building on that other server was discussed in this forum post at least once if not multiple times

And probably 0.5% was seen by the ct

[silk steeple]

nicktree ig

[neat radish]

find one ct member who has seen this crapload ffs

[silk steeple]

https://youtu.be/jdX-N1NpBHA
whew

[slim lintel]

It's challenging, there's a decently-sized group of people that would like to see some kind of changes made. Since it seems like dev correspondence basically don't happen until patch notes are released, it's difficult for people to feel like they're heard. So they keep throwing feedback into the apparent void hoping that it will have some effect.

[neat radish]

@silk steeple I just got a nirvana 💀

[silk steeple]

👁️ 👁️

[warm wharf]

Bump

[empty ravine]

NERF ASSASSIN https://youtu.be/AcyqmatX9CM

[humble meteor]

not an assasin

here is some damage numbers from a war id did with my guild using warrier

and here is another one same day same team

max we could hit with assasin is a little over 1 mil dps and no movement

[silk steeple]

now i think i actually know how to play acrobat
i just need to hone my dodging skills

[rain sleet]

so should i get nirvana or weathered for an acro build

[empty ravine]

1m wtf? How much with archer and warrior?

[humble meteor]

1 class

our war team can hit 2 mil

limbo build with buffs can hit 1 mil

[slim lintel]

bump

[quartz sage]

tell me build if its a secret maybe without crafted

[fading radish]

just quake🚮

[empty ravine]

With scrolls/totem/war scream? Or solo with healer

[humble meteor]

limbo recal knuklebones ill keep out mythics too

[humble meteor]

full hq war team with setup ill not leak builds or cus if you can use them then others can use them agains us

[unborn swallow]

Hmm isn't like alka much better because the shear existence of fallen?

[humble meteor]

not viable for long wars cus no health regen but all med wars gets destroyed very fast when using alka

so war team for the most part is alka + healer(any type just as tank) so go ahead and create chaos

[rugged ibex]

Sigh

That war build is using trickster echo + delirious gas + marks and hug tower with max melee range

ironic that trickster does the most dmg than shadestepper (tower have no backs 🤯🤯🤯

[slim lintel]

wow that's kind of bad.

[silk steeple]

me when the back of the tower isn't back

nice one ct

[quartz sage]

how it is not

[sonic grove]

100 like emoji

Now they HAVE to buff it! They have to right! Right?

[wet epoch]

Crackrobat

[austere bronze]

^ this is true

[silk steeple]

crackrobat

[simple plover]

you play tierstack and have absolutely no fun then you switch to warrior

[silk steeple]

I haven't played acrobat for a while that I forgot how to sustain being airborne 💀

[celest kiln]

so true

[sly quail]

simple solution is to /class and click on a class that is not assassin

[slim lintel]

Was the constructive_feedback section sorting changed to default to "creation time" for anyone else?

[violet atlas]

Shouldn’t shurikens do main attack damage rather than dps and proc ls/ms/powder special charge?

[austere bronze]

powder specials arent procced off of melee hits anymore anyways

[sly quail]

wtf

[olive reef]

Man

[feral shell]

Don’t worry guys, we’ll get a buff in the next hot fix!

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[muted ether]

i was so excited and then saw every other class had that too

[olive reef]

Yep

[slim lintel]

guess the balance team just doesn't agree with community feedback that says acrobat needs a damage boost, and aspects of the other two archetypes need some real help

[fading radish]

disappointment

[warm wharf]

“What do you mean assassin needs buffs? It does just as much damage as the other classes, sure it requires much more work but its fine!” -CT

“Sure it requires Mythics to do that damage but thats how Warrior was in 1.20 and people still played it so its obv fine!” -CT again

[plucky jewel]

"just because it requires to be endgame to be fun doesnt mean its a bad class" type of person to say that

[violet atlas]

Shouldn’t the boosts of each class’ damage archetype have relatively the same net % increase in dps under comfortable conditions?

[warm wharf]

Yes.

[neat radish]

honestly even that spell redu is good

at least we dont gotta worry about acro spell cost+mr

my spins cost 7 mana now kek

[warm wharf]

CT after seeing this:

https://tenor.com/view/nerf-nerf-or-nothing-de-pomp-almkerk-almkerk-de-pomp-gif-23162781

[silk steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/daeth-funi-periflight-dies-from-gif-22212023

[neat radish]

💀

[violet atlas]

LMFAOO

[sly quail]

the nothing is a better weapon than nerf guns

[rugged ibex]

So is trickster's whole gimmick is using lure to make enemies attack each other, but bosses are fucking immune to this?

A whole archetype purpose invalidated by CCI. now thats what we call balanced

[fallow echo]

I thought it was clear that game design and balance was thrown into the garbage when Salted was designing assassin

[warm wharf]

Thats a pretty normal thing in games

A good example is CC frames in Warframe, they are absolutely useless because of CCI

If you let players CC bosses it could lead to stupid things, if you don’t let players CC bosses, it leads to horrible imbalance for the classes that focus on CC

[rugged ibex]

so why create am archetype about CC if such issues arise from it?

[silk steeple]

BeCaUsE cT dOeSnT pLaY tHe GaMe

[silent belfry]

Trickster wasn't mainly cc anyway

Trickster is about, err, tanking, support, coolness, aoe, lag, server crashing, and other things and it does none of them effectively

[neat radish]

stop the cap 💀

damage isnt that high kek and speed is abyssmal

[warm wharf]

Why create anything that revolves around CC in a game where CC isn’t that important?

Why create CC when you can kill things faster than you can CC them?

Its an issue all games with CC classes face, the only time CC classes never really have issues with balancing usefulness is in PvP, which is why classes like Mage and Rogue in WoW are consistently good in PvP

Issue is: nobody plays Hunted and no Hunted Player plays Assassin

[silk steeple]

done

[warm wharf]

Stop the cap 🗿

[silent belfry]

Fixed

[gloomy urchin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/262012380878340096/1021525912677781544/unknown.png

You forgot this

[silk steeple]

moment

[fallow echo]

the person who made the tree doesnt play the game lmfao

[neat radish]

thats more accurate tbh

acro be like: difficulty 5/10 Damag 3/10 Defense 3/10 range 2/10 speed 4/10 (not bad speed actually)

[celest kiln]

acro has some really insane speed actually

spamming spin attack and dash with a speed boost is insane

get a speed 2 pearl from ava and you'll see!!

the only problem with acro is its damage, if it we're bumped up then it'd be an amazing archetype

not that it isnt already... its awesome!!!!

also it actually has more defense than you think because youre constantly flying around and most acro builds use air!!

and air = dodges!!

[neat radish]

it has good vertical capabilities but it lacks in horiz for flying

good for traversing stuff like sky islands and kandon area

[silk steeple]

but when you try to dps
its another story

[warm wharf]

Salted made the tree or at least mostly so that makes sense

[junior quail]

some ideas i got after playing shadestepper:

1. remove or reduce vanish’s cooldown. Pre-2.0, no class was able to utilise heavy melee as effectively as assassin could mainly because of vanish’s 80% dmg boost, but now they slapped a 5s cooldown on it and buffed other classes, creating a massive dps gap, which is why vanish’s cooldown just needs to go
   (since that would mean that acrobat would be able to spam shurikens from far away, they could also probably give shurikens a cooldown)
2. ik this sounds ridiculously overpowered, but for satsujin, remove the health % req, but also make using satsu take away all the marks already on the mob (or anything else to make it balanced). The idea is to make satsujin’s boost consistent and not just something that lets you deal half the boss’s health in the first hit, and then 1 damage for the rest of the fight.

I’m not that experienced with trickster and also acrobat is way above my skill level so I’m not gonna talk abt those

Tbh these variations of suggestions to buff assassin have been posted so many times that it’s getting repetitive by this point. I think all that’s left to do is just hope that the CT listens and actually does stuff abt it

[silent belfry]

My take is make backstab reset vanish cd instead of kills and satsu no more health req or cd but Marks are consumed but much less damage.

This makes vanish a tool to be able to be used skillfully instead of a get out of jail free card

[stiff hawk]

if you're implying that acro can't already spam shurikens from a distance, they definitely can, shurikens just suck lmao

[silk steeple]

shuriken damage and speed sucks to use effectively

[stiff hawk]

they should deal better damage if they ever want to bother being aimed with or just serve as an add on to dps by automatically being thrown at nearest target after dash

[silent belfry]

I think they could just be way faster and some more damage

Like almost instant

[neat radish]

They should at least do Lacer dmg

Cos u have to aim, dash and throw

[wet epoch]

i think shurikens are mostly fine for how safe they are

[neat radish]

Way too much effort

[wet epoch]

you're not intended to use them as consistent dps though it's just kinda there

[neat radish]

They’re useless basically

Maybe just make it Ricochet twice base

[wet epoch]

it's ranged 300% mult so i disagree

its not an archer level of damage but youre assassin anyways its not meant to be high dps shurikens

[neat radish]

They should at the very least do something, plus it’s not a guarantee that all Shurikens will land and ricochet

So they’re useless in boss battles

Plus u unlock em so late they’re not even obtainable midgame

Change the +1 ricochet to shurikens now have a chance to proc 30 percent of your life steal

[wet epoch]

i don't understand how these buffs will make them any more useful

[neat radish]

They could at least be used for healing

[wet epoch]

i'm still not going to go out of my way to use shurikens no matter what they do

if they proc ls ms even at reduced efficiency that would be too good

[neat radish]

I didn’t say they should proc manasteal, that would defeat the purpose of it being a mana regen class

[wet epoch]

if it only procs ls then it goes back to being worthless again

acrobat is already one of the safest classes with high mobility, the ability to float above mobs, and shurikens for range

also it has basically infinite mana if you fight more than like 2 mobs, why does it need more sustain

[slim lintel]

this is why I was confused with the recent hotpatch changes reducing mana costs. Sure that's a positive, but I don't remember hearing about anyone having sustain issues before then on assassin

[wet epoch]

probably other classes

or archetypes i mean, acro just has infinite mana because weightless has no cooldown

[silent belfry]

huh?

They offer a alright source of passive damage from afar and just add onto it

You'll be facing the enemy for multis etc anyway

I think increased speed is a good idea

[stiff hawk]

i would understand if shurikens were a little niche thing if it was only one trait on the tree but theres ricochet and then a ricochet increase below jasmine bloom... like wat

[somber elm]

They should just use The Purple Emerald's ranged multihit concept for acrobaf

[simple plover]

W

[stiff hawk]

jasmine bloom nerf 😭

[silent belfry]

Doesnt matter tbh

You wouldnt of gone that high anyway unless youre only using jasmine for damage when being high up

[tawny hemlock]

backstab range 🙏

[gloomy urchin]

Now to get them to rework trickster

[slim lintel]

some damage buffs

[silent belfry]

First actaul trickster change from assassin release to now

[fading radish]

still🚮

[silk steeple]

ASSASSIN BUFFS

WHAT
oh jasmine bloom
gg

[brittle vapor]

all they had to do was give acrobat some more damage bro

at least shadestepper getting some love

[silk steeple]

the +5% thunder damage bonus on blade fury

[silent belfry]

Hey err

Thats umm, how many hits is multihit?

[silk steeple]

multi

[silent belfry]

Amazing info

[unreal knot]

12, so about +60% damage total

[silent belfry]

And acro has +3 multi hits

[unreal knot]

that's with the +3 hits

[silent belfry]

Oh..

[unreal knot]

without it's just 45%

[silent belfry]

Welp, err 60% damage buff?

[unreal knot]

Multihit now deals 755% total damage

On acrobat at least

[silent belfry]

Acro buff yooo

[simple plover]

it got a 50% damage increase that's not bad

I don't think assassin is anywhere near where it could be, but these buffs are a very good start and it shows that it's on their radar

[warm wharf]

After 5 hotfixes

[simple plover]

yeah, but it finally got some reasonable changes

[silent belfry]

I like the backstab change, idk why but the 1 block difference really made it harder to hit. I would always stand too far away by instinct lol

[warm wharf]

Along with Archer who really needed a damage buff

[simple plover]

🤡

[warm wharf]

[silent belfry]

Trappers mines needed a buff imo, but they should've buffed base mines or made a upgrade increase base mines. waiting for patient trap is annoying and mobs activate it too early a lot of the time

[simple plover]

idk I think burst as a playstyle should be an option, but I still hate that we don't have a class that's basically just 1.20 assassin and I love the marks instead of vanish buff idea

[simple plover]

oh yeah I forgot it was trapper

yeah trapper is piss and no one uses it, sharpshooter maybe could've been fine with a nerf since it's the best for spell and melee or at least a mix with GAs

[warm wharf]

Dude my trapper build does 450k dps, Trapper didn’t really need a buff outside of buffing the mines

Grape Bomb go brr

[simple plover]

I was talking about the mines

[warm wharf]

Ah

[simple plover]

that's like the entire part of the kit, the roots need to be nerfed tho LOL

[warm wharf]

Roots, Fire Creep, Grape Bomb

[simple plover]

that is some serious damage on a 1st real ability on an archetype

fire creep is sharpshooter

[fossil dirge]

Fire creep upgrade is

[simple plover]

but I get your point

[warm wharf]

But its really easy to get as a Trapper and you don’t need any Sharpshooter sp

All Trappers take it anyways so it might as well be a Trapper ability

[silent belfry]

Grape bomb sucks for placing traps properly and gives too much damage, it should just be replaced with a benefit for traps when they explode or something

[simple plover]

that pink ability is twain's arc

[fossil dirge]

Yea the upgrade is sharpshooter

[silent belfry]

also nerf byro roots and fire creep would be nice

[simple plover]

I don't think its upgrade is trapper, oh

[fossil dirge]

Base firecreep is no archetype

[warm wharf]

Yea I don’t even use Trapper for its Traps, I use it for the Bomb Arrow Damage buffs

[silent belfry]

firecreep is so annoying

[simple plover]

oh it isn't my bad, I assumed because it was connected to the fire mastery

[silent belfry]

Mainly grape bomb, which should be a trap benefit imo

[fossil dirge]

I wish fire creep was trapper

[warm wharf]

It makes sense it would be

[silent belfry]

Trapper has no actaul benefits for it's own traps but stuff outside of the detonation(before this hotfix), theres a large focus on bomb damage and getting stuff into the traps(which isn't the main issue)

[simple plover]

I would switch scorched earth with more focus on the ability tree tbh

[silent belfry]

Imo the bomb damage stuff should be shifted to traps, and the stuff to get mobs into traps are fine since they offer somethin else

patient hunter being the only trap damage increase is very 🥴

It sucks in actaul combat because of early detonations and just serves as a way to stop you from being able to do anything

It's fine as a nice little side upgrade but it being most of the trap damage is just dumb

[simple plover]

I think it should just be buffed

[warm wharf]

Theres the buff by grape bomb that increases it by a further 80%

[simple plover]

and maybe traps should have a MUCH longer duration after the patient hunter is maxed out

but this feels like a conversation for a new thread lol

[silent belfry]

Yeah theres too much focus on it

[silent belfry]

This is now the A class fix hub

[simple plover]

real

[silent belfry]

Like how long they last?

[simple plover]

yeah

dude I HATE the chat cooldown

[silent belfry]

I haven't had many issues with that

My main issue is just them being deleted when new traps come in

Theres just a lack of control over trap placement and not much reward for them being detonated

[simple plover]

yeah fair enough, I'm a sharpshooter gamer and only used trapper out of curiosity on the beta for like 5 mins, but yeah I don't think new ones should spawn if there are already the max number of traps

[silent belfry]

I think the main issue is just grape bombs removing all control of trap placement, replace that with a trap detonation upgrade(enemies slowed maybe or take more damage debuff etc) and see if that needs changing

I feel it could be fine if trap placement wasn't so random and in large numbers, and so you'd only delete a single trap per bomb with max traps, not half your setup

[warm wharf]

Issue is if you remove Grape Bomb then trapper gets a severe nerf to dps

[silent belfry]

Grape bomb damage is too strong anyway, and as I said: move that damage(some of it) to the trap detonation

[warm wharf]

Assassin buff thread turns into Archer rework thread, even the playerbase hates Assassin

[silent belfry]

lmao

[warm wharf]

CT knew what they were doing all along

[stiff hawk]

literally guys stop talking about archer before they buff it again 👀

[fossil dirge]

Too late

[fading radish]

🚮

[fading radish]

after 5 hotfixes still look like this

sign

[silk steeple]

waiting for the dreaded hotfix 6

[violet atlas]

I feel like every person who puts a 20 word+ msg literally just read through 1% of this channel, and said what everyone has been saying all along

[silk steeple]

because the fucked up parts of assassin is just that prominent and important that everyone kept saying it

[austere bronze]

why dreaded

[silk steeple]

(yes)

[austere bronze]

ok

[violet atlas]

Based on the 5 hotfixes so far, the ct hasn’t read a single message in constructive feedback

[silk steeple]

nerfing paladin 💀

[violet atlas]

I find that so funny

The most boring archetype got a nerf instead of a rework

[silk steeple]

what next

nerfing trickster?
(imagine CT members walking in and sees this msg)

would be a big

[austere bronze]

TRICKSTER NEEDS A SERIOUS NERF

ECHO IS WAY TOO GOOD! YOU CAN HIT SO MANY ATTACKS!

NERF CLONE DAMAGE

[silk steeple]

frfr

[warm wharf]

Can't wait

ACROBAT IS TOO OP, DEALS TOO MUCH DAMAGE, I DEAL 1MIL IN 1 PENTASECOND

[rugged ibex]

More like

Darn, acrobat is most popular and has highest winrate, must be too op i bet.

[slim lintel]

I've tried 5 archetypes since 2.0 came out, acrobat is definitely my favorite

[violet atlas]

OmG aCrObAt iS mOsT uSeD iN aSsAsSiN iT mUsT bE tOo GoOd EvEn ThO aSsAsSiN sUcKs As A wHoLe

[violet atlas]

OmG you can lower your enemies dps by lagging the server out it must be nerfed rather than reworked!!!!!!!1111!1!1!1!!1!11

[austere bronze]

no i think they need to buff other classes specifically if you are near a trickster

this is to compensate for the quartered fps you get for being near that class

wynn be like “silly player! why dont you have a nasa-grade computer!!!”

[violet atlas]

If you don’t have redstone particles off after 2.0 then you won’t have a computer by tomorrow

[humble meteor]

just incase people are before this current hotfix in most ways shadestepper and trickster dps are the same

special notice: towers dont have backs so use trickter there

[junior quail]

true

sorry

[warm wharf]

Guys, Assassin is broken, I WAS ABLE TO DO HALF OF MY SPRING BUILD’S DAMAGE WITH FULL CRAFTEDS RAGE SLAP FULLY BOOSTED

TOO MUCH DAMAGE, I SHOULD BE DOING A QUARTER OF A BASIC MYTHIC ARCHER BUILD WITH FULL RAGE SLAP CRAFTEDS

[gloomy urchin]

Assassin should have one of the highest dps
Not the lowest by far

[neat radish]

Ngl multihit needed that buff, every third spell is supposed to be a big boy damage spell, (upper, meteor, aura etc) and multi hit was basically a harder to land but better later

Lacerate

Furthermore, multihit is the only third spell without aoe, so by right it should have the highest single target dps, however it is outranked by fallen corrupted uppercut and aura which both have aoe, making assassins main trait worse in comparison

[warm wharf]

Assassin is just a worse everything, can’t tank, can’t heal, can’t dps, doesn’t even have the best movement spell

[neat radish]

If u wanna tank u have to use sreggad trickster which tbf has rly good ehp with clones but u do 0.1 dps

And honestly assassin should at least have better movement spell than arch, it’s literally supposed to be all abt speed

Should be the 2nd best for mobility

[simple plover]

I think they should just completely revert vanish at this point and just lower the bonus damage

[fallow echo]

no no according to Salted assassin should have a tank archetype!

you're completely wrong and it is completely wrong to have assassins assassinate and deal high damage instead of tanking their targets!

[silk steeple]

[silent belfry]

I think trickster is going tank cause it's the easiest to move tank with the current trickster

one day trickster rework will come

[violet atlas]

It’s fine if everybody keeps saying it then eventually the devs might even realize that it’s a problem. Tho whether they do smt is another matter

[violet atlas]

Well rn it’s like best for vertical mobility

Which is useless in raids except for acrobat so 1/3rd of its builds have a useless mobility spell

[harsh void]

considering its called lacerate im suprised it doesnt have some kind of armor shred

[warm wharf]

looks at Archer

https://tenor.com/view/okay-and-gif-20790957

looks at mage

[harsh void]

i wish trickster clones were more dynamic rather than just a swarm built for tanking

[violet atlas]

I mean like acro can vertically go up potentially an infinite number of blocks but mage’s tp doesn’t fully reset gravity and archer you can’t reuse it once ur airborne

[violet atlas]

They disappear after like .5s as well lol

In any real environment of danger

[harsh void]

i would personally prefer if the clones were scaled down in quantity but had individual health bars and weren't just bad copies of yourself

[violet atlas]

I feel like that would add too many additional levels of complexity though I could be wrong

[rugged ibex]

omg 1m backstab build!!!! Assassin clearly Too op 🤯🤯🤯

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder#7_06W0DP0030QW0050050ON0Ji0QQ1W2C-E1a021g000010036CYY5555izpxONtME
WynnBuilder build:

Brainwash
Delirium
Tera
Crusade Sabatons
Summa
Summa
Diamond Static Bracelet
Contrast
Cataclysm [t6t6t6]
(Has Tomes)

(still gets outdps by heavy melee trickster LMAO)

[violet atlas]

How does heavy melee trickster's dps compare to like other classes tho?

[violet atlas]

Wait are quakes multiplied by 6 the clones to do 6x dmg but lose -60% dmg?

[rugged ibex]

multiply by 7 because it includes you as well

But chain lightning is preferred

Because chain lightning is more reliable than quake (quake needs a very big target for all quakes to land)

Make sure to activate clones

rn shadestepper got better, but still sucks for mega hp boss

[violet atlas]

How does heavy melee trickster hold up against like tierstack flameshot scarlet veil

[rugged ibex]

why use sveil

tbf that thing wrecks ele def hard, not worth explosive impact imk

[violet atlas]

true ig

[violet atlas]

still tho hb just flashshot tstack

in terms of dps comparison

[celest kiln]

@rugged ibex you are a gift from God you are the second coming you are my religion thank you so much for a good assassin build

😭😭😭😭

[rugged ibex]

Heavy trickster is better**

Also is way more mobile

[violet atlas]

wait..... how tf do you get more than 30k ehp on this

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder#7_0K30oY0CE0640I90I90t+09t0211p11-Q11+t1g000010036Czz++++-zpxoEDBt0
WynnBuilder build:

Obsidian-Framed Helmet
Taurus
Writhing Growth
Blind Thrust
Fractured
Fractured
Panic Attack
Drain
Anvil Crawler [t6t6t6]

[rugged ibex]

Bad

Anvil crawler is 🤮

[violet atlas]

Wait theres a diff wep?

[celest kiln]

Is it

[violet atlas]

I thought it was all just ac

[celest kiln]

Do I have to use Cata ☹️

[rugged ibex]

No

A dungeon item LOL

[celest kiln]

What can I substitute for cata

[violet atlas]

What else do you use?

[rugged ibex]

You are missing out child

a lvl 76 dagger 🤯

[violet atlas]

what.

[celest kiln]

Uh

[rugged ibex]

Well cata is for big nuclear bomb, so yeah

[violet atlas]

build?

[rugged ibex]

Closest you can get is black/ripsaw

obsidian helm
Darksteel

[violet atlas]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder#7_0D80oY0Ek0640I90I90t+09t0Aa1p0t-u13161g000010006Czz++++-zpxoEDBt0
WynnBuilder build:

Darksteel Full Helm
Taurus
Earth Breaker
Blind Thrust
Fractured
Fractured
Panic Attack
Drain
Salticidae [t6t6]
I can't lie the neg ele defences are KINDA sketch.....

[rugged ibex]

blind thrust yuck

get yourself dbreak

[rugged ibex]

At least better than swind lul

Also superior ws so greg wont hug you

I came up with a fun build for assassin ngl

[violet atlas]

https://hppeng-wynn.github.io/builder/#7_0D80oY0Ek0QR0EE0EE0t+0Ji0Aa1f110015161g000010006Czz++++-zpxoEDBt0 HMMMMMMMMM

130% ws

ONLY -300 in water and air ITL BE FINNNNEEE

[silent belfry]

SALTEDS JUST TROLLING US AT THIS POINT WTF

[neat radish]

welp heavy melee trickster is dead now :D

Fixed a bug where the clones chance of blocking damage formula was wrong
Fixed a bug where clones were recasting powder specials

ik its a bug but still tho

[rugged ibex]

Man

Sad day LUL

[fading radish]

I can't imagine how their brains work
maybe like this->💩

[silk steeple]

ok thats a bit over but i am indeed malding about no assassin buffs

[rugged ibex]

shadestepper satsu rework waiting....

[harsh void]

why is this actually a good build

[simple plover]

tomes

[rugged ibex]

^^^

then again shadestepper benefits from tomes the most sooo

[simple plover]

I think that's because it's one of the worst archetypes by far, it relies on tomes lmao

I've stated my opinion on the burst playstyle a few times, but it's just extremely unimpactful compared to dps without a massive buff, the changes were nice with shadestepper, but my god doing like 300k burst on a normal build max can't one shot anything and for everything except greg all it does is make it so you can't use satsujin twice, plus 300k damage every 2 seconds is beyond pathetic when it doesn't have any dps to back it up

The fact that shadestepper is supposed to be the closest to 1.20 assassin really fucking sucks since it doesn't even have a fraction of its potential

[rugged ibex]

Shadestepper relies on amp damage too much imo

That why its so tome reliant

[simple plover]

even with the amp damage it's insanely lackluster

that too

[rugged ibex]

Alao super-reliant on the weapon being used

[fading radish]

archer：dealing 300k dmg in every 1.5 sec

[rugged ibex]

Because shitty av dps weapons means huge drop in dmg

[simple plover]

if they NEED to keep the disgusting burst playstyle I think they should reduce mark damage, but greatly increase the amount of marks you can have and make it so satsujin consumes all marks when used and deals maybe 1.5x more damage at max marks even idk, it's hard to balance such a shit playstyle

[rugged ibex]

Make backstab reduce satsu cd

[simple plover]

kinda wish trickster could just be the burst class and shade could ACTUALLY be basically just 1.20 assassin, I miss old assassin especially since none of the archetypes compare at all in damage, dps or enjoyment, but that's def subjective

I don't think satsu should have a cd tbh, just do the marks thing and keep a requirement

[harsh void]

what if satsujin retained its cooldown but rather than the extra 3x damage being only above 70 percent hp it scaled off how much the target had left

[simple plover]

then it either starts off useless or gets more useless the longer the fight goes on and I don't think either are good for burst

[harsh void]

mmm

[rugged ibex]

Why not satsu refresh upon successful backstab and if backstab miss, 20s cd

Remove health threshold condition as well

[harsh void]

what if uhh

[harsh void]

this definetly satsujin feels way too situational to use effectively imo especially cause bosses like greg are mostly always under that threshold

[simple plover]

idk I think the marks would just work better on a more active and constant attacking playstyle, I think trickster's clones would be cooler as burst tbh and it needs a rework anyways as does shade because both are pretty dogshit, no idea why we needed to change old assassin or why we needed a tank archetype, both were pretty brainless changes imo

I'd say give trickster one clone that has a fraction of your defensive stats, but still copies your spells with no damage reduction and draws aggro and if it dies it can explode and make whatever gets hit take a ton more damage from your next attack and give trickster a stronger version of backstab, this is something else I've said before, but I think trickster would be cooler if it was modeled after Shaco from league, maybe smoke bomb could also act as a ranged trap that works with the mark from a clone exploding idk, all I know is I want 1.20 assassin back and shade is not cutting it as a burst class let alone an archetype in general

[harsh void]

thats what i was thinking

it would be intresting too if you could swap places with your clone somehow

[rugged ibex]

I suppose its for the sake of diversity, which is noble in principle.

1.20 assassin is basically vanish spam omegalul, and any build that doesnt focus on reducing spell costs (specifically for vanish) is practically doomed. That is not to say they butchered assassin however.

[harsh void]

also about the smoke bomb thing maybe a sticky bomb that kind of acts like cherry but after a few seconds does some damage

[rugged ibex]

I am thankful for the diverse playstyles, but I'm disappointed in the viability

[simple plover]

I think the marks are better than the vanish boost which I think should be removed entirely

I think it'd benefit assassin more to have a mechanical no buff dps class (acrobat) a ramping dps class (shade x 1.20 assassin) and a burst class that also excels in crowd control since burst is dog on its own and would def benefit from utility to compensate

the marks stacking much slower and end up being a lot stronger is also an idea that I'd hold on to

assassin as is is just fucking worthless tbh, the buffs helped, but besides acrobat the classes just have a poor identity and clearly it's more than just damage that makes them bad

Assassin needs something and while 1.20 assassin may have been more brainless it was better designed than everything we have now

a dps class with pretty pitiful spell ratios that relied on its movement spell to do damage whereas warrior had good damage ratios and got a free 3 minute long 10% strength boost and 20% defense boost on top of its already +20% defense

[rugged ibex]

burst isnt really dog, it depends on how frequent the burst is and how strong it is. Shadestepper just doesnt have enough frequent bursts to compete with arguably cracked archer

[silent belfry]

I was thinkin backstab resets vanish, but it could work for satsu too?

[silk steeple]

though eh warior got like 10% less base def now

or -20% im not sure

[rugged ibex]

Why not both? Also make backstab free upon sucessful backstab

[simple plover]

at what point does burst end up being comparable to dps and is there any point to matching their damage output if the idea of burst is to do larger amounts of damage, but space out your damage quite a bit. Dps and burst can be compared with spellspam and heavy spell, there's no reason spellspam shouldn't be stronger because there's more effort being put in and while one's worse they're used for different things

[silent belfry]

I don't have much issue with shade revolving around vanish

I think it could be bursts, with safety in between if pulled off correctly

[rugged ibex]

spell spam amd bursts are different means to the same end, with spell spam being more flexible and less punishing whilst burst is more punishing but focus more on patience. They both should result in roughly the same damage. This is a gross oversimplification of things that I wish i could delve further into

[silent belfry]

I think having backstab reset vanish kinda has this sorta thing: Hit your backstab and you get rewarded and continue, mess up and you're punished

[simple plover]

how is burst more punishing? it's a safer playstyle that's much easier to pull off

[silent belfry]

You have less opportunity to hit, if you miss your hits you lose more value or potential or whatever

[fallow echo]

I think assassin buff would likely be some reworks in 2.0.1

[rugged ibex]

This

[simple plover]

it's not necessarily difficult to go into vanish, run up behind something and backstab

[silent belfry]

I've tried to come up with trickster rework ideas but I really can't land on a good idea

[fallow echo]

wait lemme repost my suggestions

[silent belfry]

not difficult, but theres still the possibility of messing up. being impatient and trying to do it too fast and missing or the mob charges away. or you take too long and vanish runs out

[simple plover]

I don't see why making shade into 1.20 assassin with marks instead of a vanish boost is a bad thing and turning trickster into a cc, burst type class tbh

[rugged ibex]

As compared to what? Brainlessly mashing spells?

[simple plover]

It shouldn't be brainless tbh

but I'd say it takes more brainpower than using one spell then dipping

[silent belfry]

Vanish works way better for burst and could be centred around that, trickster could be easier formed into a spammy archetype due to it needing a rework. while shade has potential and makes more sense for burst

[simple plover]

anyways since burst is a worse playstyle and allegedly harder to pull off then wouldn't it make sense to mix it with a cc playstyle, I think it'd benefit a lot more from having utility

[silent belfry]

Cc is fine with burst? you use it to set up that hit and makes it easier for that. but cc kinda does that for everything

[simple plover]

.

[silent belfry]

just that those few hits are more important for burst so you wanna reduce the chance of failure more

My issue with clones drawing aggro is that if they're too tanky you just have afk simulator/spam simulator with no danger at all

and even if they die quickly if the cd is low you just spam clones and run away and it's sorta the same with having that much safety while dealing a lot of damage

[simple plover]

that's why I think they should have like at max 1/4 of your ehp or just have your hp with no defensive stats at all and target what you're targeting as well forgot to add that

[silent belfry]

So they'll die quickly, whats gonna balance that cause if they're easy to kill that seems too weak to utilise

[fallow echo]

Shadestepper -

1. improving the detection and hitbox on backstab, maybe removing the positioning to make it less janky, the dmg could be nerfed
2. Increasing spin atk dmg to allow it to be used in general spell cycles as a dmg spell
3. Removing vanish cd for the fluidity of gameplay
4. increasing marks dmg to allow assassin to deal as much dmg as other classes would
5. reducing the punishment you get for missing backstabs cuz fluidity

trickster:

1. reworking echo completely to reduce less dmg YOU do but reduce dmg that CLONES do to not make you feel crippled when you activate clones
2. replacing the ultimate spell with something that buffs your dmg maybe
3. adding dmg buff spells like delirious gas or marks
4. remove black hole entities that shit lags out servers to the point of crashing
5. reduce clone cd
6. make clones pull mobs instead when using smoke bombs and remove the dr you get from clones cuz a tanky assassin is just shit game design
7. add more mobility to trickster cuz base dash is like a wet potato being flung at a homeless person, perhaps readding dash flying from 1.20

acrobat:
acro is fine as is
but to make it catch up to other classes

1. increase dmg on lacerate
2. increase hitbox on multihits, like this one is necessary
3. increase the jump boost provided by lacerate
4. increase dmg on jasmine bloom based on height
5. add multiplicative dmg while in the air based on height to incentivise flight

overall:

1. remove double spin or make it optional, it only decreases overall dps when you're playing assassin in a fluid manner as your spin cycles get cancelled, and thus makes assassin feel less fluid
2. remove vanish cd, it feels like it's there only because a certain group of people in ct malded over assassin being good in 1.20
3. increase the range on dash's leap to make it feel like actual mobility, maybe add recasting while midair as it didn't hurt the playstyle and didnt allow players to do anything overpowered either, it was just fun to do

[simple plover]

you want them to die quickly since they set up your damage, the aggro draw I think would be a bit busted if they stayed alive longer, this way you can buy a bit of time and quickly set up

[silent belfry]

set up for what?

[simple plover]

for backstab's bonus damage

[silent belfry]

Oh

[simple plover]

a clone dying would cause a strong explosion that also marks an enemy and causes them to take a lot more damage, much more than satsu

[silent belfry]

So isn't that more give shade a clone that does some more stuff?

[rugged ibex]

Imo spin for shade should be an "oh shit spell"

[silent belfry]

A clone to draw aggro for shade isn't a bad idea

[simple plover]

I'm talking about trickster

[silent belfry]

If you want backstab you're getting most of the package that helps it work, so basically most of shade

[simple plover]

it desperately needs a rework anyways and I think clones fit better with burst and marks fit better with dps

[harsh void]

make blzing powder work smh

[silent belfry]

And clones don't need that much to help shade, just aggro draw

I don't see how you could put enough "clone" content into shade to make it more trickster than shade

and with shades position in the tree the contrast of burst and spam with shade and acro work better than this nicher playstyle in the middle

So we run into the same issue as archer with a playstyle that doesnt fit the other two in the centre

[simple plover]

I think temporary clones work better with an archetype that deals in short bursts of damage and marks that basically are always there would benefit from a playstyle that's basically always dealing damage

[silent belfry]

Marks are too vague(idk what word to use) and could be easily tweaked to fit anything imo

Make marks be consumed on multihit or melee hit and boom it becomes more fit for burst

[simple plover]

you're right, but I think they're fine as is, they just need a more fitting playstyle

[silent belfry]

I think they should be changed to fit the playstyle more

[gloomy urchin]

@ salted rework assassin

[simple plover]

word

[silent belfry]

"We're increasing vanish cooldown to 24 seconds"

[gloomy urchin]

start again from the ground up

it's unsalvageable*

[silk steeple]

me when marked is just winded but applied through smoke bomb

[silent belfry]

if yall could make any concepts what would you make for assassin archetypes(stuff that actaully is unique and offers different playstyles and strategies not 1.20 assassin x3)

[gloomy urchin]

toxoligist/poisoner

[rugged ibex]

Keeping with the burst playstyle, where every spell you cast matters more, I like how spin is stupidly costly so that it presents as a getaway option incase backstab fails. In that aspect, no. Dont make spin more spammable for shade.

You also forgot satsu, which is a sad perk. Make it so that the reward for succeeding with a successful backstab is worth it (i.e. cd reset or vanish cd reset).

My idea of a shadestepper is upping the stakes, of how much you would risk sticking out your neck for the glorious big nuclear damage.

[simple plover]

I disagree because if you shift the burst style over to trickster you also get the added benefit of cc, and again since burst is almost never comparable to dps unless you're one shotting or doing completely insane amounts of damage then I think having the burst class have multiple purposes would be a really good thing

[fallow echo]

hm, imo spin should be used to basically deal dmg after ur done backstabbing. but rn double spin is like haha no spin spam fuc you lol

[gloomy urchin]

psychic striker

[simple plover]

that's why you don't spin spam

[rugged ibex]

Make blazing powder shadestepper archetype done.

[simple plover]

you never spin spam, that was never an optimal way to play assassin

[silk steeple]

hey instead of making a spell deal instant damage, what about we SPLIT IT INTO 2 and ADD NEGLIGIBLE DAMAGE

[fallow echo]

increase blaze powder dmg done.

[silk steeple]

1.20 momento

[silent belfry]

All you need is a setup clone and a upgrade for cc maybe, if you go all out on clones then theres no reward or satisfaction for that hit, you have too much setup and no reward, a mix of both could work

[silent belfry]

What does this mean

[gloomy urchin]

cool things

[rugged ibex]

Shade should always have costly spells, so there is always a risk for failing

[silent belfry]

And burst CAN bring out more damage, damage is a balance affected value which means it is not fundemental

[gloomy urchin]

just steal archetype ideas from dnd subclasses for the rouge

[silent belfry]

And we can also make the bursts faster to allow it to feel more fluid or other stuff etc

[fallow echo]

"spin 2 win"

spin is unusable now ez

[silk steeple]

ggez its shit now

[silent belfry]

If vanish was reset on backstab I think it would kinda be like a sniper, you do a lot of precise bursts aiming down on each target

except you move around instead of moving your mouse

That's the sorta concept I got

[rugged ibex]

spin isnt unusuable, its more of "you fucked up now, guess its time to blind them instead and make a run for it" for shadestepper

[fallow echo]

maybe add an indicator that your backstabs have hit

makes game feel much nicer

[silent belfry]

I think a indicator for when it will be a backstab could help too

[simple plover]

assassin was never spin to win, vanish, throw smoke, alternative between multi and spin for optimal dps, it's fairly brainless, but so is every other class, the game's combat is 4 different combinations of three clicks that come from two buttons

[silent belfry]

Instead of having to figure out the back of specific mobs

[fallow echo]

nah bro u could fly with vanish too op

[simple plover]

wow god forbid we get between cities faster

[gloomy urchin]

imagine flying with your movement spell

[simple plover]

thanks selvut 👍

[silent belfry]

🤯

[simple plover]

yeah it's not like every other class besides archer can

and archer's movement is pretty crazy in the first place

[silent belfry]

Ok lets get back on topic, salty sarcasm won't get us anywhere

as much as it's reasonable and justified

[fallow echo]

it's just sad tbh

[silent belfry]

What would be a good way to rework trickster

[gloomy urchin]

no tank

[simple plover]

you want my burst or dps idea

[simple plover]

good start

[silent belfry]

I think I want trickster to either be spammy to centralise on clones in some way

[gloomy urchin]

trickster shouldn't be tank
it should be support/dps

[simple plover]

no support dear fucking god

[silent belfry]

dps isn't enough, we need specifics

[gloomy urchin]

control then

[simple plover]

cc would be fine ig

[silent belfry]

Cc in a game where most bosses have cci 💀

[gloomy urchin]

clones draw aggro away from you and allies

[rugged ibex]

yeah no way cc oriented class gonna fly

[simple plover]

yeah first change is that I'd give spin an upgrade that bypassed cci, but only had the stun there for half a second or a second with a cd

[rugged ibex]

Just look at 1.20 shaman 💀

[silent belfry]

cc archetype just doesn't go well, we almost got to a point where we don't really need cci anymore don't give salted a reason to want it to stay forever

[silent belfry]

That seems spam orientated, and kinda just too free. Oh spam spin and all bosses are now completely useless against you

[gloomy urchin]

remove trickster then

"trickster" literally implies some form of cc

[fallow echo]

read what I said in my suggestion

• reworking echo to make the clones do less dmg not you, basically your main dmg isn't decreased but the clones deal partial dmg of ur main dmg, overall dps increase but only for aoe
• replacing the overheal for dmg bonus based on every lured mob you kill
• replacing tank buffs with mob debuffs
• removing black hole.
• reducing clone cd
• having clones pull instead of acting as dmg reduction to give trickster cc not make it a tank
• adding mobility

[silent belfry]

Still doesn't really offer much

It's more viable and fits assassin but just doesn't really do much

Maybe I'm being too fussy over having a complicated and nuanced archetype thats really interesting

But those changes would be alright and not bad, just I'm seeking something more I guess

[fallow echo]

• clones completely reworked to mot be dr based
• your main dmg isnt decreased by 60%
• dmg buff ultimate

[silent belfry]

I want more than: "cast spell mob now cced

[simple plover]

I think a good idea for trickster dps would be to keep the clone idea from the burst concept where they freely move around, attack what you're attacking, take aggro copy spells etc except give them like maybe 2/3 to 3/4 of your EHP and reduce their damage slightly and when they die I think it should just create a big smoke bomb that deals damage maybe half as often as jasmine bloom and deals lower damage and gives you like a strength and speed buff as the main change, it would also keep vanish, but vanish wouldn't give any strength buff and maybe give speed 3, ik the damage buffs are overdone, but we can't skip over the fact that assassin's spell ratios are pretty low compared to the other classes and double spin is actively a liability4

[fallow echo]

monke brain understand better now?

[silent belfry]

No I mean the concept doesn't offer much gameplay or interest, I understand completely

[fallow echo]

it's literally a rework of trickster to make it aoe / cc / dmg instead of aoe / tank

[silent belfry]

Yeah, I know

[silent belfry]

Maybe it could work? You summon clones and try to use em to get damage in before they die

[simple plover]

and when they do die you get a power up

[silent belfry]

Seems pretty cool, just the issue of ai being 🥴 maybe

like you try to setup for your clones in some way and then send them in for damage

Like you throw bomb to confuse enemies and make clones focus em, and then send in clones to damage the mobs as much as you can before the cc runs out

But the issue with cc has already been discussed, but we can do this sorta thing other ways with smoke shielding the clones or something

[gloomy urchin]

first red ability: psychic blade
when you perform your main attack shoot out a projectile with mid-long range that deals dmg equal to 40% of your main attack damage

[simple plover]

maybe lure can be put on bosses and have minions attack them, smoke bomb would just add lure to them instead of you, you send in your clones to deal damage and maybe give them a small buff while inside the smoke bomb, then when they die create a much larger smoke bomb with more buffs that set you up to run in and start spamming

[rugged ibex]

Shadestepper spell list

Spin - last resort spell incase backstab fail and enemy on you.

Vanish - the big setup

Backstab - the big nuke

Smoke Bomb - main source of marks

making spin spammy is no. If anything, double spin makes it more forgiving for ET builds that doesnt involve intel or -spell costs. It doesnt do much damage amd never should be main form of damage. treat it as more of utility.

[silent belfry]

Having to set up for your clones and then having your clones set up for you seems a bit overcomplicated

Maybe just clones set up for you or you set up for clones

[simple plover]

kind of, but it'd be really cool, I think at the end of the day the clones should be a big part of it, but you should be the star of the show

[silent belfry]

So clones setting up for you would work better for that idea

[simple plover]

ye

[silent belfry]

They go in confuse the enemy and such and you go in and do damage before they die to after they die

I think having them be there with you would be more interesting than them acting like homing cc bombs, but what do you think?

[gloomy urchin]

mind rend - purple ability
enemies hit by your psychic blade deal -5% dmg , stacking up to -30%

[silent belfry]

But they die quickly so you can't just stay in there dealing damage forever

[gloomy urchin]

telekinesis - orange ability
when spin attack completes, launch enemies within it's range away and briefly stun them

[simple plover]

Trickster spell list

Spin - Spammable bursty spell

Vanish - Turns you invisible and grants speed 3, summons up to 3 clones upon exiting that walk freely while staying in a certain range of you unless attacking a mob that received lure from smoke bomb, repeats your spells with a 40% damage penalty upon a clone's death create a shadow field that increases combat stats, damage by 80%, defense by 10% and speed by 100%/speed 5 (maybe too OP, but it'd be like old vanish that you really need to set up for)

Multihit - Keeps opponent locked in an endless cycle of dps style damage

Smoke bomb - Damage over time, gives ANY enemy hit the lure effect that causes any nearby mobs or clones to start attacking it, bosses and special mobs will only target clones and players, clones take priority, will ignore lure

[silent belfry]

Hm nice

[simple plover]

edited a little bit, if this actually happens I'd be so happy

[harsh void]

i cant be the only one thinking that the assassin tree layout is absolute ass right

[silent belfry]

I don't think the defense is needed

[simple plover]

it'd be nice with the vanish cd, a little extra safety

[silent belfry]

everything about assassin is ass
its in the name

[simple plover]

they really took the in out of assassin

[harsh void]

ass ass in

[silent belfry]

It kinda pushes you towards just tanking for the duration of the buff, I kinda want the enemies to be distracted in some way or something but idk

[simple plover]

I mean the distraction comes from clones and when they're dead you have nothing

but them dying is necessary

[harsh void]

also why does having 1 clone alive warrant the same damage defecit as 6

[silent belfry]

We should choose to either have the opportunity to attack WHEN the clones die or when the clones are alive

You're limited by the length of the buffs(after clone death) or the length of the clones lives(during clone life)

[simple plover]

I like attacking when the clones die tbh and being limited by the buff time

which maybe should be 10 seconds and give the clones a 20 second cd that starts after they die

[silent belfry]

So it's sorta like shifting between being very powerful and having to survive

The challenge is surviving after the clones buffs leave you and you're by yourself and you get a period of just godhood

[simple plover]

I'm not super concerned with the balancing aspect and probably shouldn't have added much detail, basically clones draw aggro for safety, they deal decent damage, they die, you get combat stat buffs, run in and fight until the buff ends, then resetting

[silent belfry]

Hm, maybe the clones spells could apply some debuffs too

[simple plover]

ooooo yeah

[silent belfry]

so if you can get some spells in before the clones die you're rewarded

[simple plover]

ye

Maybe they could somehow give ramping debuffs up to 10% less damage dealt and more damage taken that lasts until your buff field disappears

if they have a less damage dealt debuff then I could see taking away the defense buff to yourself

because I think you should retain some safety when they die even if it's a lot less

[silent belfry]

ramping would be good, so you're rewarded for more spells

[simple plover]

and I also know that yeah, spell spam is brainless, but the concept is complicated and I think that counts for something

[silent belfry]

Hmm maybe you could make this into a forum post or somethin so it's actaully seen

[simple plover]

perhaps I will, I'll talk to my friends about it as well

one of them is already here :O @simple plover wanna give this a read B)

[silent belfry]

If you're gonna make all the upgrades and not just some base spells, remember to make sure not to give the buff upon clone death everything from the first node

so you can't just slap it on easily and get a bunch of op stats if you're mixing

[simple plover]

ah yeah true

[silent belfry]

But putting it further down the line means you're useless til you get it, so I think having parts of it being added on as the tree goes along is nice

[simple plover]

I think the buff field would DEFINITELY be the final red ability or make it the second red, but the debuffs would be the final one as well as buffing the stats

[silent belfry]

I think the issue is that the buff field is pretty integral to the whole gameplay loop, which is why having it further down the line would make you kinda useless til you get it

So maybe have the field only buff one thing at the start

and you get more from the field from nodes are you progress

[simple plover]

like the second red might be, when a clone dies it explodes into a buff field that gives you 20% damage and 30% speed bonus and the final one would bring the stats up to 80% damage, 100% speed and allowing your clones to stack debuffs

[silent belfry]

I was thinkin more gradual but that could work

[simple plover]

the buff field should be farther up in the tree, I agree, the locking behind trickster is something that would require more thought when a new tree is produced

AND I also think Trickster could do with a rename to top everything off since it wouldn't be a tanky cc class anymore and I feel the name doesn't fit as well since it doesn't scream combat

[silent belfry]

Like
Upon clones dying they release a aura that buffs your ws and damage by 30%
A random white ability: upon clone death you now gain 60% ws buff and 50% damage boost
and so on

[rain sleet]

worst change ever

i think

[silent belfry]

LIke how max focus and blood pool increase too

[simple plover]

actually yeah this is better

[silent belfry]

For trees I think the playstyle should solidify as you invest more and more

[simple plover]

I do have to go to bed because it is 7 am LMAO, but I will leave on shade changes, marks basically deal more damage, take longer to stack and satsu has a mark requirement, but doesn't have a cooldown and consumes all marks, if the enemy has the max amount of marks you deal even more bonus damage

[silent belfry]

First few upgrades gives you the base concept, but you don't need to do much for it/you don't get much for it. and as you go down you get upgrades that improve the reward for playing that way + assistance in playing that way

and the final red should really compliment the whole playstyle well or solidify the playstyle

[simple plover]

agreed, since this is a buff class I wish we could give it an ultimate for the final red, but I don't think we can

that's another critique about this update as a whole, I feel like classes should have more abilities like crep ray where it feels like an ultimate, this satsu change would make it feel like one

[silent belfry]

I like ultimates, but my issue with em is they interrupt gameplay and are currently too easy to charge up/feel unrewarding

and forcing everyone to have a large wait +payoff doesn't really fit every concept

[simple plover]

yeah that's true

[silent belfry]

I think for now it should be something that really assists you while buffed

the final red shouldn't feel needed or be qol, but should really add onto the archetype

[simple plover]

it could just be the debuff

[simple plover]

https://youtu.be/bKdeqeP7VU0

[silent belfry]

wack

[simple plover]

olo

[silent belfry]

Like where spells from clones add a stacking debuff? that seems fine

[simple plover]

yeah

[silent belfry]

yep that fits well I think, provides further interest that supports the concept and doesn't feel needed

and has a bit of depth/skill to it

[simple plover]

yeah, the actual gameplay is gonna be just old assassin combos basically so it's not mechanically intensive, but it's a complex and deep kit which is nice whereas acrobat is mechanically difficult (for wynn ig) and has nothing to its kit aside from staying airborne

[silent belfry]

The main challenge/focus will be doing as much as possible and making the most out of the buffs before they're gone I think

[simple plover]

also for a new name I was thinking something like Demon, Reaper or my favorite, Deceiver

[simple plover]

yeah you have to make the most out of all your resources, the buffs and the clones

[silent belfry]

Oh a possible buff for clones dying could be spell cost reduction

[simple plover]

OOOOOO I like that

could also have an upgrade where the field heals like .5% of your health rounded down per second

idk what shaman's totem does with regen, but make it around that just a bit less

and don't let water damage affect it at all because it really shouldn't be significant

[silent belfry]

I think we shouldn't focus completely on the buffs, some setup stuff would be nice too

[simple plover]

yeah true, I'm probably not the best when it comes to additional way to set up, but adding them would warrant more buffs lol

[silent belfry]

But that stuff can be for later, it's just some more icing on the cake

[simple plover]

^

[silent belfry]

Anyway imma go do some other stuff, see ya

[simple plover]

later!

[violet atlas]

Wait did they nerf heavy melee trickster or smt

[simple plover]

yup

[simple plover]

https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/trickster-rework-idea.304018/

@silent belfry AAAAA it's up

Imma make a shade tweak thread too since I think it can be solid probably

I like the consuming marks idea and the longer waiting for WAY higher damage than rn

[silent belfry]

Shade has two options: Longer wait but more damage, or faster bursts but less damage

I think it can go towards either, but both have their upsides and downsides

[silent belfry]

The wording on this is a little too ranty and formatting is a bit messy I think, maybe try seperating each idea and change?

But the ideas are good

[simple plover]

bet

[silent belfry]

I'll write my my version of it and reply in the comments

[silent belfry]

Hm, I might make it my own post

[simple plover]

bet

[violet atlas]

Does blazing powder still not work with lacerate?

[sonic grove]

Probably not

[gloomy urchin]

dude I just wanna like, ask salted "why?"

[silent belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/question-mario-god-filthy-frank-idubbbz-gif-21508154

~~ex-~~assasin mains rn

[gloomy urchin]

fr

[warm wharf]

Meanwhile on the other side of the pond, Archer and Warrior mains with S tier dps:

https://tenor.com/view/party-kid-dancing-kid-cool-kid-partying-gif-17855388

[empty ravine]

hmm

assasin can become invis and has large aoe

[warm wharf]

Doesn’t mean shit if it can’t deal damage

1.20 assassin did more damage and had more utility than 2.0, which is the exact opposite of what happened to every other class

[neat epoch]

Can go invis? What... Like twice per raid with the cooldown 💀

[silent belfry]

????

[austere bronze]

what was that lol

[silent belfry]

What was that

[neat radish]

what was what

[simple plover]

huh?

[simple plover]

also please give feedback 🥹 I miss assassin being good

[neat radish]

https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/trickster-rework-other-ideas.304105/

r8 this :D

[warm wharf]

No

[neat radish]

:(

[neat radish]

tbh all acro needs is blazing powder to worth with lacer, and a higher cast speed, multihit and shurikens buff practically makes up for half of the problems

and maybe just a slight acro rework with parry (it sucks)

[violet atlas]

Probs just make blade fury reduce animation time by half and increase total dmg by like 20%, as well as make stronger lacerate also halve anim time

[neat epoch]

gave me a heart attack

[somber elm]

Lol

What's wrong with parry?

[silk steeple]

glitchy
Idk I just ignore it

[silent belfry]

glitchy?

[silk steeple]

ive heard people saying that it doesnt work properly

[stiff hawk]

pretty inconsistent

[neat radish]

parry is kinda hard to activate properly, and is only useful if you gethit and dodge procs (why would you try to get hit anyway)

[warm wharf]

Idk, obv someone on CT thinks Assassins wanna be tanks

[gloomy urchin]

what if it proc'd when an attack is made near you but it doesn't hit you

[silk steeple]

even glitchier

[violet atlas]

Pretty sure a ct member said they don’t handle the tree

[rain sleet]

lets force every CT to level an assassin to 106

[violet atlas]

Salted instead :)

[rain sleet]

salted is also CT hehe

[violet atlas]

Tru

[gloomy urchin]

Slated, explain every single assassin decision

[violet atlas]

You aren’t the assassin in this game, the game is assassinating your mind with this meme of a class :D

[simple plover]

why am I randomly dashing when I cast spin and multi?

[gloomy urchin]

Wynntils moment?

[simple plover]

nope all the spell macros are unbound

it's actually when I spin then melee attack

[neat radish]

Lacer?

[simple plover]

nope I have spin, apparently it's a bug where if you're inside a hitbox left click doesn't register or something and your right click input is tripled idr how my friend described it

[empty ravine]

Does this happen to archer too?

[neat radish]

fuck now i have the same prob too, only when casting multi though

[violet atlas]

Ah yes

[violet atlas]

I have to left click like 4 times when acro cycling multi

It’s been a problem for ages

[warm wharf]

bump

[gloomy urchin]

Rework assassin
Actually make it not just a worse warrior

[warm wharf]

So rework assassin basically

The only thing it was good at was crashing servers and now its not even S tier at that anymore

[silk steeple]

assassin but it assassinates servers instead of enemies

[limber night]

https://tenor.com/view/typing-gif-21026319

[silk steeple]

🤯

[simple plover]

just gonna put this here

[warm wharf]

“But Nirvana is literally broken” says the CT member trying to justify another Assassin nerf

Also, Focus still works with almost everything

[simple plover]

Oh and sorc got nerfed

no wait transcendence !

[warm wharf]

Sorc still recasts arrow shield, idk about angels

I just know I love having 12 arrow shield charges for the funny

[simple plover]

There are videos of an archer in housing spamming guardian angels and doing millions of dps with a machinegun turrets above them (with the range of a football field)

[warm wharf]

Also hound does decent damage for a cast and forget ability, its when you combine it with Angels that it gets ridiculous

On a basic un-optimized freedom build from 1.20, I was doing 120k dps with hound and angels, this is without an optimized skill tree or the new meta build for 2.0

120k doesn’t sound like a lot to Archer mains (me included) but you have to remember that most top end mythic builds that weren’t Cata or GMA got like 140k dps in 1.20

GMA could do like 300k with rage abuse and Cata was pre-nerf Cata

Archer and Summoner literally have viable afk dps builds meanwhile assassin’s have to sweat to do damage

[silent belfry]

You forgot grape bomb dealing a ton

[simple plover]

grape bomb sucks

[silent belfry]

wait, lemme think

Oh wait it only works on larger hitboxes right?

[simple plover]

what are some anecdotes that archer and assassin is insane / bad

[silent belfry]

Hitting all 3

[simple plover]

"poor performing mythics" hmm I wonder why that is 🤔

[simple plover]

-1 spin cost btw

lmfao

i still cant believe death magnet is the same as it is

literally the worst upgrade in the universe, worse than any iteration of flying kick

[silent belfry]

Nah martyr existing is worse

[simple plover]

Not true
Martyr is super niche, hard to achieve, but actually has a benefit

Death Magnet has little to no supporting utility, its fuckin 2AP, and only hinders your gameplay

idk like I feel like shadestepper should do an insane chunk to bosses, not oneshot unless it's a minmax build (and I assume this means LI bosses) burst is a weird playstyle because it has no value if it's either not high enough damage which it's not right now or not able to be used often enough which it's also not

also I'm really fucking bummed out that my trickster thread got ratiod, that sounded like an absolutely awesome change to assassin to bring it back up to speed

https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/trickster-rework-idea.304018/

[silent belfry]

I think it's a cool idea, main issue imo would be clone ai being dumb

and clones not reaching into the air

[simple plover]

I do wanna go over this though, already talked about the burst, idr when multi did infinite damage lmao are they talking about 7 years ago? and Jasmine bloom's range nerf did nothing because you're still out of the enemy's range while they're still in yours so ???

yeah that's true

the big thing is the buff field that requires set up, that's something I really wanted in the game

[silent belfry]

Jasmine doesn't do much damage so imo it's not too op

[simple plover]

that's also true

[silent belfry]

also archer does this but does 1293829381298391 times the damage

[simple plover]

fr

what if successful kills with satsujin made you enter vanish

[silent belfry]

Kills?

Isn't that just.. worse silent killer

[simple plover]

it used to melt church by standing on the roof

[silent belfry]

ah, for those situations yeah

I love getting free exp by walking around

[simple plover]

lemme think of possible assassin buffs and not just point out obvious biases like ^

[warm wharf]

Nah bro it works on hitboxes like the housing dummy as well

[warm wharf]

Grape bomb is broken

[silent belfry]

Shades issues are:
Unreliability(mobs moving, mobs being too far away, etc. Satsujin being used up means you're useless for 30 seconds and isn't consistent)
Lack of escape(A better way to reset vanish or a way to not get hit when leaving)
Setup feels sluggish(Bomb being the main setup and being just waiting is boring)
Maybe others but those are the ones I can list from the top of my head

[warm wharf]

Take it from an Archer main, Grape Bomb is literally stupid

[simple plover]

I think for assassin
Shadestepper: Either needs a reduced satsu cd or a higher cd with a lot more damage, even with a lower or no cd it could probably stand to get more damage, optimally to play into the burst fantasy I'd probably give a ton more marks like probably 30 and give 2 and 3% (with better marks) bonus damage per mark so it'd end up being a lot stronger, but make it so satsu doesn't have a health req and instead consumes all the marks to deal bonus damage (maybe 5% max health true damage) and then basically put you out of commission for a while since it takes a bit to stack them and shadestepper is the farthest thing from spammy, probably would make it so each mark has a .5 second cd so 15 seconds, BAM massive fucking burst damage and rinse and repeat
Trickster: Full rework honestly, can keep the clones ig, but it's not a dealbreaker if they're removed, honestly we just need like a nice set up dps class like assassin was supposed to be last update, 1.20 assassin was supposed to be set up dps, but set up really only consisted of casting vanish so I'd want more work to be put in and a higher reward, maybe even reduced vanish cd on top of buffs, which btw big fan of the buffs idea (not sure how it'd work without clones) but it's a possibility. Also keep assassin's base kit, I love Spin Muli and Smoke.
Acrobat: Honestly it's fine, I don't think it needed any nerf but the one we did get isn't that bad and it just needs more damage man, it's arguably the most mechanically intensive archetype in the game (idek if it's really arguable tbh) and what does it have to reflect that? Hell, forget about reflecting the skill needed to play it perfectly, it can barely compete with other classes if at all.

It's so annoying how dirty they did assassin man

[warm wharf]

Acrobat isn’t supposed to be high damage because of its mobility but it needs to be higher damage than what we have since in order to get anywhere near what Archers and Warriors sneeze out, Acrobats need to sweat harder than a CSGO player in comp