📚lore_discussion

[full jackal]

Don't you know that when you're in the womb, you kick your own mother?

[cedar kernel]

So it only works fine when you touch it at its source

[hybrid gazelle]

This is the best answer I got

[full jackal]

How can you be pure-hearted but also kick your own mother

[hybrid gazelle]

because TECHNICALLY

you are right

but at the same time

I dont think 1.20 writing take that into considertation

so I disregard it

[cedar kernel]

The the only villager pure of heart is the jofash resident bread enthusiast

[hybrid gazelle]

the entire CT was possessed by Notch himself during Gavel development fr

[signal bough]

I think immortal evil living puppets built around skeletons and mummified flesh after dozens of revives are an excellent ruling class

[hybrid gazelle]

Also in the quest

Lazarus pit are called Pit of Youth

would tbh really nice foreshadowing for water source like it

if only the quest actually consistence and well written

then I would like this foreshadowing more

but it fucking not

like it not

it just not a good quest

[signal bough]

Hopefully the grand youth rework is better…

[hybrid gazelle]

literally nothing about the water imply it can help with keeping your youth

so far it seems to only bring shit to life

there is nothing about it that imply it deage or keep your age

I wish lazarus pit quest does more for Dullahan character

than have it being what it is

[frozen turtle]

if i had a nickel for every magical water source in wynn which gave life in some way

i'd have 3 nickels

just need 1 in corkus and SE to get 1 in each province

[slim belfry]

see that's the thing they can't get one because they're not provinces

sorry provinces only

[full jackal]

Holy shit

There's an original starwalker graffiti

In the train between torann and gates of fruma

[pine flower]

toxic wastes for se trust

[frozen turtle]

does the water in the monolith count?

[mossy badge]

SE is just wynn smh

[signal bough]

yeah

culturally, past olmic substrate with modern-day wynnic human occupation

like the rest of wynn

[distant fern]

What are these 3 water sources?

[mossy badge]

Fountain of youth, wellspring uhh

[hybrid gazelle]

Water source that seems to be capable of revitalize you in some way

like Wellspring of eternity can keep your youth

actually

[mossy badge]

Whatever its called in gavel

[hybrid gazelle]

all of them can keep your youth according to the lore

[mossy badge]

Lazarus pit i think

[hybrid gazelle]

but the story say otherwise

so take that with grain of salted because 2 of these bathwater are like

made within ancient time where CT made shit like jungle

[frozen turtle]

Lazarus Pit, Wellspring of Eternity and Fountain of Youth

[hybrid gazelle]

I think we can just safetly cal lthese the Youth Pond

because so far 2 of them refer as youth-related

and it seems Wellspring of Eternity is the recently refresh idea that seem sto more dated compare to the other 2

[frozen turtle]

Lazarus pit is different from the rest but is similar

it brings youth, after death

ig

[mossy badge]

W youth

[hybrid gazelle]

Fountain of Youth made in Jungle area with self explanatory of why we cant take it to heart
Lazarus Pit got a quest that probably written by dimentia patient

[hybrid gazelle]

Lazarus Pit was once called Pit of Youth

so likely decay probably fucked it up in someway

[fluid scarab]

im sorry this question is gonna make me sound illiterate but i thought bak'al was the manifestation of war? if thats anathena than what was bakal again?

[hybrid gazelle]

no

Bak'al is Scion of War

[mossy badge]

Her minion

[hybrid gazelle]

ANathema is Beast of War

[frozen turtle]

I think it would've been cool if the Wellspring was like, south east of mistwoods and like idk the water was connected

[hybrid gazelle]

so Bak'al is like what Lari is to Orphion

[fluid scarab]

that is perfectly succinct thank you

[frozen turtle]

i mean, he's not really her minion

he used to be

[hybrid gazelle]

for the sake of simplcity

he is

sorta

[mossy badge]

What was bak'al

[hybrid gazelle]

until they broke apart

[mossy badge]

Question answer

[fluid scarab]

yeah why was she letting that fucked up little guy go out there and do all that

[frozen turtle]

minion also just meants a someone who like, follows/works for someone else

[hybrid gazelle]

okay this is up to intereptation

but from what we gather from post raid

[mossy badge]

Ye that is bak'al

[hybrid gazelle]

the reason Bak'al given power is because he is the first thing that she ever seen from physical world

and she actually feel sorry for him

[frozen turtle]

not for anathema tho, at least for all the time we've seen him

[hybrid gazelle]

so to prevent him from dying

she decide to bless him

[mossy badge]

"Build me a body"

He did

[hybrid gazelle]

yes Bka'al

that bak'al

[mellow bone]

Guys, I want to play the game on Third person mode however I want the screen to shift a bit on the right

[hybrid gazelle]

the fucking hitler version of Wynncraft

[frozen turtle]

we was but like, bak'al has not been a minion for anathema for majority of the time

[mossy badge]

Shoulder surfing mod or smth

[frozen turtle]

only 20% of his time has been a minion for her

[hybrid gazelle]

apperantly back then

[mossy badge]

Ok?

Why does that matter

[hybrid gazelle]

Bak'al was pathetic and broken enough that Anathema took pity on him

because unlike other Beast anathema do have some degree of empathy and relate with being in physical plane

[fluid scarab]

so he was just the first person to recieve a blessing and used it to become gigga hitler?

[hybrid gazelle]

Somewhat

like this is somewhat

[hybrid gazelle]

Well

[frozen turtle]

just cuz, he's not her minion really im being nitpicky

[hybrid gazelle]

this is complicated because we doont know Bak'al as character that much

[mossy badge]

The guy asked what he was not what he is

[fluid scarab]

thats is true ik that much teehee

[hybrid gazelle]

but what we know is that he given the power and survie thorugh it because he that much of a hater

because he hold grudge against Fruma

so he spend a long years raiding colonies in Wynn for knowledge to help Anathema build the HRT machine

allow her to become what we see now

[frozen turtle]

he asked if he wasnt manifestation of war then what was he

[hybrid gazelle]

and then he guide her to Fruma

that the rough summary

basically it seems that his entire motive is born out of hate

[fluid scarab]

yeah but this is interesting ty

[mossy badge]

What does bak'al hate 🤔

[hybrid gazelle]

we dont know if he going to be downright evil bastard o r not

[frozen turtle]

bak'al hates women

[fluid scarab]

so what im hearing is this is a complicated family situation sort of

[hybrid gazelle]

sorta

[fluid scarab]

truth nuke

[frozen turtle]

family/employee/employer/monarch/minion dynamic

[mossy badge]

Ur face when saphanis revealed as female: 🙀

[vestal sentinel]

idk, he seems to hate men as well

[fluid scarab]

thats funny asf anathenas gross little son was out there stirring the pot

[vestal sentinel]

u see how he obliterate those 2 soldier at that old city

[frozen turtle]

maybe thats why he went to Saphanis, the realm beast whose refered to as "it"

[hybrid gazelle]

he hate men because they are in a way of his beating women quota

[vestal sentinel]

he only likes the non binary

[dim plover]

Wat is going on in this channel lol

[frozen turtle]

no one can beat up women but bak'al apparently

[fluid scarab]

anathena GNC asf

big non binary moth

[hybrid gazelle]

Anathema semes to still fond of Bak'al

but at the same time fucking hateh im for betrayin her

I think that siege on Ragni is waht did it

I think

we dont have full picture yet

[fluid scarab]

yeah i can see why she wouldnt really have qualms with gigga hitler

[hybrid gazelle]

maybe when Bak'al appear in dern update in 500 years

nah she 100% have qaulms with Bak'al

she fucking hate him

there like entire dialogue of how she screaming at the player ot fucking kill him

[mossy badge]

She herself is giga hitler

[vestal sentinel]

1 raid and THREE more lootrun camps

[frozen turtle]

what if bak'al is gay and thats why Anathema hates him 🤔

[fluid scarab]

yeah she litterally raised a mini-me

[mossy badge]

W lootrunning

[frozen turtle]

ocean lootrun camp

[fluid scarab]

finally a warrior meta

[vestal sentinel]

would dern be as big as fruma or just realm of light sized

[hybrid gazelle]

"FOOLISH PEONS, The reason you not getting those mythic from your 500 pulls is because of ME"

[mossy badge]

Im gonna be pissed if they make dern big but keep rol small

[hybrid gazelle]

I think Dern would be Fruma size

[frozen turtle]

bigger then realm of light at least

[hybrid gazelle]

because if Dern is RoL size, CT would be dead

[frozen turtle]

we can safely assume its bigger then RoL because of lore

[fluid scarab]

should prolly be bigger as in present light is losing the fight a bit

[vestal sentinel]

yea ig cuz it's actually gonna have content

[frozen turtle]

make it the size of fruma but have as much content as the realm of light

[hybrid gazelle]

let's fucking cook Dern expansion wait

okay here

[vestal sentinel]

it needs at least 50 more secret discoveries

[hybrid gazelle]

Size of Fruma
Biome Planning of Corkus
Empty space of Gavel

And level range of SE

what you guys think

[frozen turtle]

perfect.

[fluid scarab]

mobs shred you so fast death screen plays twice

[hybrid gazelle]

Every Dern mobs are copy of wooly rhino

like it not even new model

it just wooly rhino

[frozen turtle]

and those chainsaw guys

[hybrid gazelle]

that too

[fluid scarab]

you forgot to make them ALL ranged

[hybrid gazelle]

and also pre-nerf pest techian

[mossy badge]

Master archer

[fluid scarab]

and have advanced dodging AI

[frozen turtle]

but make it so chainsaw guys have the shields of those wing knights but it keeps moving forward

[vestal sentinel]

why is wooly rhino doing more numbers than tna

[hybrid gazelle]

Wooly Rhino with stand that able to hit you 10 blocks away

Also Wooly Rhino with pull spell

[vestal sentinel]

power scalers explain that

[hybrid gazelle]

like just pre 2.1 pull spell

[frozen turtle]

i hid behind a rock to kill wooly rhino and it worked kinda well

[hybrid gazelle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfV_Doo9UHU&list=RDgfV_Doo9UHU&start_radio=1
Wooly Rhino if you manage to bring up to a raid

[mossy badge]

I also did that 🔥

[vestal sentinel]

i did the same thing

it took forever tho

[fluid scarab]

bro those stackpeak eagles were gulping down 20k EHP at a time its wild

[mossy badge]

Wooly rhino with stepup of maxed adasaur

[hybrid gazelle]

TCC solo Wooly Rhino

[earnest prairie]

fruman bread is smth else

[fluid scarab]

not exagerating gaps NOL parasite

[frozen turtle]

can we change the canon WTP lineup to be 3 wooly rhinos + player?

[mossy badge]

I think wooly rhino should have 60 blocks stepup

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-speed-stream-ishowspeed-stream-speed-nod-gif-1082323842437565509

[frozen turtle]

3 wooly rhinos solo anathema

[mossy badge]

Canon wtp

[earnest prairie]

give them +4 jump height too

[fluid scarab]

wait wtf was the queens name again was it also anathena?

do they ever mention it??

[mossy badge]

"Her majesty"

[frozen turtle]

Her Majesty, Anathema

[fluid scarab]

my fault

[frozen turtle]

the only two names we get

[earnest prairie]

im pretty sure it was just queen or her majesty depending on the chrctr ur talking t(w)o

[frozen turtle]

ig no one bothered to ask her name when she had her shell on.. kinda sad

[mossy badge]

Pretty much nobody known/used her real name

[fluid scarab]

was gonna say cannon fruman queen spams TP hard

[fluid scarab]

yeah we need to be more sympathetic to female gigga hitler

[earnest prairie]

First Name: Ana
Last Name: Thema

[frozen turtle]

Ana, like Annie

like Annihilation

[fluid scarab]

in her fight with syndra she just stalls with TP to be a prick for what i have to assume was SEVERAL minutes

[earnest prairie]

King Ani and Queen Ana

[hybrid gazelle]

I dont even think she has a name for her shell

closet thing is Anathema

[dim plover]

Annihilathema

[drifting aurora]

i think this is a poor way of framing it

[hybrid gazelle]

Bak'al daily slander but yeah that not really correct

IDK how to find the right word

Bak'al definitely was fucking dying when he came to Realm of War

[drifting aurora]

regardless of whatever ended up happening between them, anathema seems to look back on those early years with some fondness

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah I mention that before

I dont even know if Bak'al actually being geniune or not

like what the thing cause so far from what we know and how I see Bak'al after like

the lack of offical content of him

it just hard to imagine him as actual person that Anathema would look back fondly of

[drifting aurora]

well remember its in the context of

War

yknow

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah fair enough maybe they bond over their shared state of being in position given to them

like okay this is just my intereptation of the event

like full on

I do think Bak'al and Anathema in the early days would share a bond over their similarity

however Bak'al deep inside believe in anarchy and want to burn everything down to settle his grudge

whiel Anathema want something that she can call her own

so the start of their brekaing apart is when Anathema make it known that what she once for Fruma is order

rather than total destruction

because Anathema call Bak'al a loyal chaos

so that is when Bak'al's world view of Anathema shifted

because he though she was simialr to him, a being that simply want to burn everything down and bring anarchy so the world can share their suffering

but when she shown that she is not

he broke off from her and maybe join Saphanis because its goal is similar to his

where he believe that if Dern did manage to unify everything

then all thing that exist will be detroy

that just my full on theory from it

[dim plover]

Does DB want to destroy stuff?

[hybrid gazelle]

Saphanis does not really destory stuff

it just exert its willl over the world

transform it

but in that sense

it might as well be call destroyb ecause everything that you will about reality would be transform by its influence

so in twisted logic kind of way, it still technically destruction where everyting now unify under one influence

[dim plover]

How does that align with Bak'al's goals though

[hybrid gazelle]

make the world shit that pretty much it

it does not really matter to him

the world can burn in one way or another

cause you might as well say the world is destroy when either of the two beasts take over

because whatever left in the world will be transform and change beyond recongition

either way it still allign with Bak'al goal to simply watch the world burn

I just thinking this because I think they still need to keep the charm of Bak'al being this

outright evil character

that has no redeeming quality

[tired fulcrum]

Whats worse corruption or decay

[hybrid gazelle]

decay is survivable

corruption is not

decya entirely relying on parasite in order to spread

but corrupiton do not

like just reminder

you manage to deal with decay by the end of ROL story

by killing the Parasite

while Corruption still going on

that how bad Corruption is compare to decay

[mystic fulcrum]

but still player managed to survive the realm of war and not corrupted

[hybrid gazelle]

We did not spend in realm of war enough to corrupt us fully like Theorick does

It in and out operation

Also this argument do not work because decay never work on us until it take literal Parasite

And even then thst just parasite take control

And even then

To everyday people

You can at least still have farm in decay as long as parasite don’t get into your crops

Compare to corruption

And the fact that people still living in thst zone in 1000 ap mean it survivable

Not good life to have

But they alive domehwat

While Wynn is constant warfare

And the village that aboht to corrupted need immedient action

[dim plover]

How long did he spend in the realm again?

[hybrid gazelle]

We don’t know

But the raid buff we got in wtp are suppose to be effect of corruption

[dim plover]

I feel like us taking down the literal War Beast would be a tad bit longer than Theorick’s attempt in the realm of achieving absolutely nothing

[dim plover]

Oh I guess that makes sense

[hybrid gazelle]

So we are under effect

But not bad as what happen to Theorick

Who likely been there longer than us

Which is why again I rather make clear difference between under influence of corruption and actually being corrupted

Being under the influence of corruption does not make you corrupted

But It will under certain conditions

Like death

[mellow bone]

@hybrid gazelle #🌎wynncraft

[hybrid gazelle]

What

[torpid dune]

very trustworthy with a 23 day old account

ty mods

[dim plover]

Is the Queen of Fruma above swearing

[split night]

she don't even say a human slur to us while in her butterflymoth form so i would say yes

[full jackal]

Why did you just make me imagine Anathema calling the player slurs

[split night]

universal human slur for alien is calling anyone a monkey
this have a guarantee chance of provoking the entire human species

[full jackal]

True true

That makes it too safe and uncreative though

Y'know if aliens pull up and the best insults they got are "monkey"

I'm not impressed

Clearly these fuckass aliens are uncivilized barbarians, they don't have any better insults than monkey

[dim plover]

Maybe she didn’t know any

That or she’s going to accidentally blurt out “small-nose” while particularly enraged, revealing that she was actually a Villager in disguise all along

[split night]

she's the embodiment of war, i think she might know a few

[full jackal]

Do you think Anathema has torture machines over in the Realm of War

Like does she torture demons

[split night]

not really

[full jackal]

Is that why the demons look so fucked up

[split night]

she state that her realm is her own torture room

she spend eons suffering in here

[full jackal]

But like does she project her suffering onto the demons though

[split night]

how would we know that

[full jackal]

Me

I said so

🙂

[uneven basin]

I thought the demons did that to each other ? Waging war and suffering and all

[full jackal]

I mean maybe the realm of war is just a massive barfight

[uneven basin]

Makes sense that everyone is affected as much as ana by the realm of pain and suffering

That's how I view it, annihilations having Kaiju fights every day

[full jackal]

That sounds sick actually

I mean it'd get boring after a few centuries

[split night]

the realm itself is not even "whole" either
they are more like shattered glass packed in a bundle

[full jackal]

But then you could just invent some new ways to kill each other y'know? Boredom breeds creativity in murder

[split night]

those pieces of glass doesn't fit

none of it does

it create conflict within the realm

and so the realm is in constant war

[uneven basin]

Must be how demons came up with turning their faces into a fucking gun

[uneven basin]

I like how that can lead to a "entering the realm of war is like putting you hand in a bag of broken glass" metaphor

[full jackal]

Is it just me or does Tasim look different

[vestal rivet]

some of his portraits were changed I believe

he looks less like a character from an anime game now

[hybrid gazelle]

if you talking about Tasim

all his protrait get change

[vestal rivet]

good good he looked weirdly clean in comparison to everyone else lol

[hybrid gazelle]

i say that his color pallete now lean toward chev artstyle

which is nice I like Chev use of color

[vestal rivet]

what is Chev
I doubt you mean the car

[hybrid gazelle]

the artist

[vestal rivet]

idk who that is

[hybrid gazelle]

cherv

one of the Wynn artists that draw protrait beside Tex

Chervil

[vestal rivet]

oh
you said style and I thought it was a reference to something else

I misunderstood

[full jackal]

Does anyone have like a full gallery of his updated portraits?

Oh and also I think the ocean songs have been updated

Also bumps in the night for some reason even though that song is from 2014

[narrow kestrel]

Isn't there a gdocs of music leitmotifs in the fruma ost

Where is it

I need to see which ones Anathema has

[full jackal]

Uhh yea

just...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LifNc--kLXn8SlkkgnYKMLoF_m4jtnQE5jK6gTsy-tc/edit?usp=sharing

I think its this one

[vestal sentinel]

can i get some pics of new tasim portraits?

[vestal rivet]

I don't have any of them

[vestal sentinel]

oh

[narrow kestrel]

I can't fucking hear Timasca's theme in Anathema

I can hear Hero perfectly clear though

[full jackal]

Wait uhh speaking of wynncraft songs

Is XavierEXE still like working on wynncraft

[vestal sentinel]

doesnt he work on AT now

[full jackal]

I think

I don't know maybe this is weird behavior but I think like the last time they even spoke in this server was 2 years ago

[vestal sentinel]

huh

maybe they deleted msges or sth

[narrow kestrel]

AT?

[full jackal]

Ability tree

[vestal sentinel]

ability team

or that

[vestal rivet]

Xavier was one of the original AT right? but stopped being involved a long while ago now

[full jackal]

Not sure

Oh my god I kinda realized

Wait when was the og wynncraft soundtrack composed

Oh god XavierEXE was about my age when they made like 40% of Wynncraft's ost

[vestal sentinel]

there be geniuses out there

why the FUCK do i even exist

[full jackal]

ikr T_T

Like Lexdale's ost is actually one of my favorites pre-fruma

[vestal sentinel]

i like a day to remember

i think xavier made that one

[full jackal]

I think that was corpe

[vestal sentinel]

mm

[full jackal]

yea that was corpe

[vestal sentinel]

yea

[full jackal]

Oh wait no the one remade was Balada del Vagabundo Marino

[narrow kestrel]

So is Azael just a bum

gikyo and azael were in the same batch together but for some reason azael feels like gikyo was just built diff

😭

like. they could retcon the entire azael is a changeling thing and there would be zero difference

[hybrid gazelle]

but that the thing

Azeal not using his changeling ability

it kinda the point of his character

tghat

the entire point of his character

he is changeling who is know able to find his own identity and stick to it

he become a person of his own

[split night]

transmasc allegory

!!

[hybrid gazelle]

I hope this is just devil coprse LOL

recent items lore is really intresting

I would recommend giving them a read

by recent I mean items that added post Lootrun update

no fucking way

[brittle prism]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1235420078938521671/1429393511270191154/attachment.gif

[pearl osprey]

are you telling me the people of corkus were settled by a total of 7 people who created two entire cities

those guys must be more inbred than the habsburgs

[vestal rivet]

I've brought that up a few times

I think I heard of a second wave that eventually hit them? but never found the in-game source for that

[signal bough]

it's my headcanon

partly because the Corkian archives say corkus was founded by people who went overland and lost their memory

the dating on John Corkus' escape is also prior to the beginning of the Recruit program

not too much prior

so Fruma could have set up a proto-recruit program where they just sent them to Corkus

[hybrid gazelle]

Combination of suspension of belief

And there likely more people on board

[hybrid gazelle]

There never source for seconds escape

Even then thst highly unlikely consider it’s goddamn fruma

Stunt like rhat likely can only pull once

Especially during IA where tall building become more common

[solid fable]

More people on board likely + pirates from selchar likely

Coz even now there are pirates on the island

[pearl osprey]

oh yeah also theyre supposed to forget fruma right

[solid fable]

Probably lost history

also fruma changed alot after the original corkians left

I don't think making history records of fruma would be the first thing on their mind when establishing corkus

[sick quest]

Dont think so

The exiles specifically have their memories removed

[pearl osprey]

was that retconned?

I remember it being a thing that Corkus citizens do not know what its like in Fruma

[sick quest]

Thats moreso a generational divide

Its been quite a while since the corkians escaped

Markus Corkus is long dead

[pearl osprey]

I mean I remember it being a thing that they lost their memories upon crossing the border

[zenith coral]

you guys think corkus people are all into robots instead and thats why they arent inbred

[low ether]

All of them, no, but I dont doubt some of them are

[mossy widget]

yeah its been a long time and even if they werent memory wiped i doubt a lot of them would want to keep talking and sharing stories of fruma when they have a new community to build

its not that unrealistic

[pearl osprey]

btw no ultimate discovery in fruma it seems?

[zenith coral]

in the wastelands update next year ig

or maybe sooner who knows

[regal spire]

There will be ultimates for each region, allegedly

I’m more interested in whether or not the Mistwoods/Wastelands will combine their ultimate

[spring kernel]

why would they

[vestal rivet]

I mean
a good chunk of the Wastelands terrain is already done at least
idk how much that is in the grand scheme of things

[sick quest]

not yet

[sick quest]

probably all will be distinct

[primal anchor]

inbreeding made them talk british

[zenith coral]

nah they clank clankers. theyre the endphase of all nerds in that they made their own boyfriends / girlfriends (all of us havent reached that phase yet because we arent cultured enough)

[slim belfry]

that's uh

quite the statement

[signal bough]

I don't even think they're british

they don't talk like Gracken

[violet tiger]

Theory time? I think it's theory time.
Qira is the servant of Darkness that was tasked to kill the remaining Olm. And more specifically, that she turned traitor.
Qira doesn't look like any race we know of so far, but both her AND her hive have similar themes to the Silent Expanse.
Qira is incredibly powerful to the point where she was asked to solve the decay, she knows about the realm of wars and directly states that the player may be a good ally in the battle against Darkness. However, she is knowledgeable enough to know of the Parasite and powerful enough to kill it, so we don't know any reason she wouldn't. Unless, of course, Orphion wouldn't let her in his realm and/or would kill her because she is a creature of Darkness.
Finally, her Inhibitor chestplate has the following lore text:

There's a note in it. It doesn't seem to be addressed to you... "You're not beyond saving. But you must work to deserve to be saved."
This implies she has something in the past she deeply regrets, and that however gave her the chestplate had hoped that she could become a better person.

[rustic nexus]

personally I think saphanis would not have a scion

anathema tells us in one dialogue branch that the other beasts rarely give their strength to another, so they rarely get scions, most likely whenever most needed

and given that the shade is winning the realm war currently, there doesn't seem to be a use for a darkness scion

qira is probably aware of the realms and their war, but I don't think she's directly connected to it

[violet tiger]

Oh no, I agree, hence why I said servant and not Scion.

[rustic nexus]

uhh

the only times we've really seen servants of a realm, it's a scion

the sovereigns, lari, bak'al

lari especially I think leans towards that servant title

[signal bough]

if there WAS an opportunity for a scion of Saphanis it would be during its war against the olm

[rustic nexus]

perhaps, but that would've been before the portals reopened I feel

and besides, any remaining olm are already dealt with due to the eye's presence

[sick quest]

nah qira seems uninterested in saphanis

and in the war between light and dark

i think qira is best as an ungoliant stand-in

[rustic nexus]

she is said to be preparing for some kind of battle

[sick quest]

ungoliant from LoTR

I like the idea of qira being a primordial creature of the realm of physicality similar to the dragons

[rustic nexus]

perchance

[violet tiger]

Behold the last message of the quest: The Qira Hive.

Qira: It is as I have always told you. The darkness is coming...but if you Wynn folk are all as strong as you have proven yourself to be, we may just be able to beat it back. Honour to you, warrior of Wynn.

[sick quest]

and she seems like she just wants to defend her territory

[sick quest]

yeah so qira is getting ready to defend against dern

the darkness is coming, we may be able to beat it back

[violet tiger]

The Eye, Bak'al, The Nameless Anomaly, the one unkown one stated in a secret discovery to hunt down the Olm.

[violet tiger]

Never directly stated it was for her territory specifically, but that's definitely a valid interpretation.

[violet tiger]

Garaheth might be one if they exist.

[sick quest]

garaheth seems to be extraplanar tho

from some sort of plane of demons

[rustic nexus]

the eye is a piece of saphanis
bak'al is still a scion
tna is just a denizen of dern

[violet tiger]

Where's the lore for the last one?

[violet tiger]

Also the Parasite.

[rustic nexus]

parasite is likely another creature of dern

strong, but not really a "servant" I'd say

[sick quest]

like there are many forces from across space and across the different planes invading the plane of physicality it seems important that the plane of physicality has strong defenders and warriors against these invasions

qira seems like one of the big manipulators of the plane of physicality trying to prepare for war

hence training warriors via the hive

orphion wants to impose his own will, the corruption is invading through the portal, saphanis is coming, there are weird dark monsters from space, garaheth from the plane of demons, the undead and charon, bak'al

[rustic nexus]

yeah but honestly I don't think she would be able to do much to defend against either one of the realms' advances

[sick quest]

oh yeah she alone wont be able to do much

but she recognizes the PC as someone who might be able to help

There is a war of realms coming

Its important that the PC marshalls the strongest forces against Orphion and Saphanis

Qira, Ozoth, The Sovereigns of Fruma, the Manaweavers, the Corkian inventors, the Avos shamans, the armies of Wynn, Dwarven and Dogun armies

Fuck an elite team infiltration of the SE send an army backed by strong mages and manaweavers

In the mean time have the Dogun and Dwarves begin to create a seal for Orphion and the RoL

Maybe working w the elves

[rustic nexus]

isn't the only manaweaver alive currently just Sui

[sick quest]

We know there r others tho

Theorick and the Twains were

[rustic nexus]

yeah but like

[sick quest]

Bob seems like he probs was one

We dont know where they r

But we can look

[rustic nexus]

I don't think we're gonna be able to get much out of mael in his ghost form

Bob needed weapons still

he wasn't a manaweaver

[sick quest]

Oh u right

I mean maybe the students of grookwarts have some?

[rustic nexus]

ehhhh

[sick quest]

That seems like a good place to look

[rustic nexus]

I'd wait for a grookwarts rewrite before including them in anything

[sick quest]

Fair

Grookwarts is kinda a mess canonically

[rustic nexus]

it's old and crusty

and I don't think anything regarding the weave was even thought of as it was made

[sick quest]

U right

[rustic nexus]

idk about sending an army through SE though

I think just a strong team would be enough

[ashen salmon]

somebody should fix that bridge

[rustic nexus]

tasim and two are definitely coming along

maybe qira?

maybe yusanu to help use the resonance weaver to open the portal for us, if he hasn't taught somebody else or two knows

sui would be a question mark

going to the war realm was probably enough for her

[ashen salmon]

soosu to help work the weaver

[rustic nexus]

maybe

[frozen turtle]

Qira has an entire army + she herself is much stronger then the player so i feel like she would be able to do a lot lowkey

[indigo wedge]

lore-wise, why does it make sense that last sun is dropped by the fossil fighters world event? at first glance it seems more like an annihilation drop

[digital swan]

You mean Fraudra?

Her ass staying in that hive

She knows the moment she exits she's becoming a spider pancake

[frozen turtle]

She has a plan that’s why she stays in her hive totally

[full jackal]

Ohhh so that's why there are so many burned skeletons in Detlas

[regal spire]

Well, not exactly

That’s Ba’kal

[full jackal]

I... don't recall Bak'al setting fire to Detlas

There was Akias 700 years ago

[regal spire]

He set fire to many things, including Nivla and Akias

These are suburb residents of the currently only active city

If Akias was still around, it’d be that

[full jackal]

Wait how long do undead last for

Like they're taken hold of by corruption

[regal spire]

As long as they’re animated ig

[full jackal]

But sometimes the vessel of corruption is extremely weak

Like do their bodies eventually just fall apart?

And then the corruption has to find a new corpse to animate?

[regal spire]

It just stays there

It’s lil bits of strands in the air. It’s all around Wynn

[signal bough]

I think that occasionally bodies just get back up

[regal spire]

It’s why there’s undead everywhere, alongside corruption

They’ll basically keep coming back up, until it’s just basically impossible to do anything with it, like animating individual pieces of skin

[signal bough]

Hmm… swarms of animated knucklebones…

[warm adder]

What is bloomi

is there gonna be any expansions after wastelands and dern

[full bough]

bloomi in

3 year

bloomi expansion

[signal bough]

Gravel 2.0

[warm adder]

Where did bloomi ev en come from

[warm adder]

Wat

[warm adder]

🤯

[full jackal]

General's orders is unironically one of my favorite quests

[signal bough]

its quite literally Frumazing

[solid ibex]

fun and a goofy one

[exotic bough]

fandom wiki detected. use the official wiki at wynncraft.wiki.gg and download indiewikibuddy to avoid fandom results in the future

[exotic bough]

why are we injecting food-grade phosphoric acid into animal carcasses

[full jackal]

Is this a reference to that short film where they milk the pig of electricity

And then the pig runs out because duh

And then the society collapses because they were too reliant on the pig but then instead of finding a better source of electricity they just get a cow instead

[solid ibex]

idk

its just a cow and pig getting injected with pepsi max

[full jackal]

Btw how do you react to the messages with the emoji things

Like I can join if someone has already done it first

but in group chats i can't

start with...

fuck i'm not explaining it well

[low ether]

In here? 's far as I noticed you need a role
Or to just acc link at minimum, methinks

If your acc is already linked and you still cant, thaaatsss probably a role thing then

[full jackal]

I linked it already

It's probably a role thing then

[low ether]

😔 Okay yeah likely a role thing then, that blows if linking doesnt do the trick for allowing reaction perms

[narrow kestrel]

Is gikyo the strongest sovereign we know of

out of the ones we fought atleast

hes the only one we didnt actually kill

[full jackal]

Nope

[exotic bough]

prob not

[full jackal]

We honestly could've killed them if he didn't run away

[narrow kestrel]

zhiraok died twice, majin...lol, tasim has the friend pass + he was getting clowned by rex so his strength is lowk questionable

[exotic bough]

their power acquisition ability only works perfectly on weaker people

[full jackal]

THEMT THEM I'M SORRY

[hybrid gazelle]

Try to write lore for fallen oc

[exotic bough]

so they cant just turn into the queen and do a whole bunch of stuff then

[narrow kestrel]

Well yes

But the stuff he does with the ones he can copy

[signal bough]

and, unfortunately, due to mechanical limitations he can't copy the player

[narrow kestrel]

Is amazing

[narrow kestrel]

THEY THEM

maybe two is stronger than them

idfm

[hybrid gazelle]

Majin theoretically is most powerful

[narrow kestrel]

idfk

[hybrid gazelle]

It likely player just know how to stay long in the fight to prolong it

[exotic bough]

i think two is mostly just theatrics

i mean yeah she can suck the player into the frags of possibility

[hybrid gazelle]

Two power is more for information gathering than combat

[narrow kestrel]

we forced him to gamble for more powers

[signal bough]

Majin has been studying other magic, but Two is 800+ years old

[narrow kestrel]

and ended up killing himself in the process

[exotic bough]

but she explicitly mentions she wont fight us bc she knows shed die

[narrow kestrel]

Could be bullshitting

😭

[hybrid gazelle]

Also zhiraok would have got us if it not for Soosu

[narrow kestrel]

Ah

We got him on the first fight

Does the revives actually make him stronger

[signal bough]

nah I was doing pretty well

[hybrid gazelle]

No it just him getting better with his power

And know our trick

[narrow kestrel]

because i just remembered that part and yea we would have been with aledar if soosu didnt come

[hybrid gazelle]

So by battle of attrition, zhiraok win

[signal bough]

I am excellent at dodging

[frozen turtle]

zhiraoks method of winning is just trying until he wins

[low ether]

Dont think so, he'd probably be a little bit disoriented if not ready
Maybe even a bit lower energy cause of how it feels knocking the wind out his sails

[vestal sentinel]

i think that's ours as well

skull

[narrow kestrel]

I still think its bullshit that the charm conveniently gets destroyed at the end of the questline

[hybrid gazelle]

I pretty sure player also exhausted

[narrow kestrel]

someones dying in the wasteland quests

[hybrid gazelle]

After the second fight

[narrow kestrel]

And they dont want ppl bringing up the charm lole

[hybrid gazelle]

So zhiraok will win if he did engage the player after the revive

[formal bridge]

I don't think anybody is going to die in wastelands epilogue

I think it's more the writing team not wanting to factor in the magic revive the dead charm in future stories lmao

[frozen turtle]

having a charm basically prevents deaths from occuring without extended reasoning to why they can't

[narrow kestrel]

well geah because they're probably planning for deaths

[formal bridge]

I mean you don't have to plan for deaths for that?

[narrow kestrel]

azael will die

[zenith coral]

well hopefully they kill of characters not made with killing them in mind

[frozen turtle]

like lets say they wanna kill idk Zeph but they make it so Tasim has the charm so they decide to seperate Tasim and Zeph so they can't use the charm

[formal bridge]

It's the same reason I don't have magic revival artifacts that often when I run ttrpg games

[frozen turtle]

cuz isnt there a time limit

or am i making that up

[zenith coral]

isnt the charm just gone

[narrow kestrel]

That would be obvious setup

[frozen turtle]

im saying like what the writing could've done

instead of destroying the charm

[narrow kestrel]

Because everyone in the group knows tasim is stronger than zeph and zeph would need it more

😭

[frozen turtle]

both kinda feel weird

[narrow kestrel]

Giving it to tasim and separating them

Might as well announce zeph dying in the quest

[frozen turtle]

im just using a random example of characters

and it could be in groups

or like, they get spawn-killed so they can't revive again

[zenith coral]

i feel like at this point i am mad with the fact rex got to live cuz they didnt wanna kill off a important and interesting character (which i think is a bad writing mindspace but i dont know)

[narrow kestrel]

that would require competent enemies and we dont have that in wynn

[narrow kestrel]

having tasim kill someone while they're trying to do a redemption arc for him would be a questionable choice

[frozen turtle]

we already had two deaths tbf

[narrow kestrel]

• its better from a writing standpoint to have him deal with the consequences of his actions

[frozen turtle]

1 in industrial, 1 in mistwoods

[narrow kestrel]

Rex will prob not be able to use a bow again

But soosu will fix up some bullshit i trust her

[zenith coral]

the whole revival scene needs a rework its very dubious imo. atleast cut out the zhiraok thing

its a bit silly

[narrow kestrel]

we need to transfer mana into tasim

❤️

thats how the charm gets to work

[frozen turtle]

i really dont like the zhiraok part

[zenith coral]

im not confident that thats what will happen. she will get a prostethic be able to use it better in like 1 quest and will get rid of her trauma and mental issues in another and then she will be buffed by the prostethic

[narrow kestrel]

I doubt shes getting buffed

[frozen turtle]

i think they could've had it if they still wanted everyone to pitch in, that because rex had been dead for too long that the charm needed extra power

[narrow kestrel]

Shes already pretty strong

😭

[fossil depot]

i havent played fruma yet, unfortunately, due to college, but i have a question, did soosu's ascension happen while she was still a child?

[narrow kestrel]

her ass will unironically mog the rest of the cast if she gets buffed

[frozen turtle]

i think they wanted a scene where the player like draws on their power like that

[zenith coral]

no

[fossil depot]

or did the queen wait until she was older

[frozen turtle]

CT says no

[narrow kestrel]

SD seemed to imply but ct said no apparently

[zenith coral]

make it a scene for rex

[fossil depot]

ah

soo she was ascended when she became an adult

[frozen turtle]

literally everything about Soosu makes it seem like she is a child

but apparently not

[zenith coral]

young adult

[frozen turtle]

idk

[fossil depot]

yeah

[zenith coral]

well her height

[narrow kestrel]

Could easily be just a very short character

[frozen turtle]

Her height, her behaviour, the SD's

[fossil depot]

at first i thought she was a perpetual child that got ascended while still young

[narrow kestrel]

But the Life Before Technology SD makes it seem like

She got snatched by the Queen when she was likr 12

😭

[fossil depot]

and got locked behind that

[frozen turtle]

I think it would make more sense for her to of been like, ascended when she was young, but not given the eternity water until she matured

which would explain her behaviour

and the SD

[zenith coral]

this is worded suspicously btw

[narrow kestrel]

I mean

Ascension is a pretty painful process apparently

If soosu knew I dont think she would have done it

Well, i dont think she could have refused even if she wanted to anyways

[narrow kestrel]

so they're gonna bring up the eternity water shit. right?

that shit sounds way too strong in lore

[low ether]

im ngl Soosu's behavior felt like the kinda ish I do
as a grown ass woman no less

[fossil depot]

we still dont what exactly the ascension process consists besides that it promotes you to scionhood and gives you the mark of your patron beast, ye?

[fossil depot]

😭

[low ether]

Down to the depression yippeeee

[zenith coral]

every province has one and were not sure why

[narrow kestrel]

we know its painful as fuck from Soosu's diaries + the Solace In Pain SD

[zenith coral]

its prolly important lore tho

[low ether]

Solace in pain isss...which one, Zhi's?

[narrow kestrel]

Yes

His diary has him narrating his ascension stuff

[low ether]

Also Zhi asking Tasim how he's recovering post-ascension iirc

[narrow kestrel]

and how soosu was the only one looking at him with pity

[frozen turtle]

maybe idk if they will i hope they do tho

[zenith coral]

doesnt he talk about how the pain DOESNT go away

[narrow kestrel]

While he struggled

[zenith coral]

no im not a british technophile

[full jackal]

Y'know, after replaying the early-game a bit

[narrow kestrel]

Oh! Oh! I know that character!

[low ether]

Something something uhhh. Fuck, i forget the dialogue but yeah in his case it's like. worse than a nagging feeling iirc

[narrow kestrel]

Its Ava, from The Feathers Fly!!!

[full jackal]

I have to realy appreciate that EVERY SINGLE FRUMA QUEST

[fossil depot]

fuuuuuuck wrong ping

[full jackal]

Expands on area lore

instead of being random quest

[fossil depot]

are you by any chance gifted in the arts of engineering and maths
oh and also have big ass goggles

[low ether]

Hole in the back of his mind and a feeling like lightning

no for both

[fossil depot]

bro has a perpetual headache

[low ether]

The way she acts though, yeah same

[narrow kestrel]

How could that be, majin is dead now

[zenith coral]

its more a straight pain he learned to control. i wonder if something went wrong or if every sovereign has it cuz the nature of war is so corrosive

[full jackal]

every sovereign has it probably

[fossil depot]

every sovereign has it from what i remember

[zenith coral]

i meant the pain thing

[narrow kestrel]

Seems to be, yeah

[full jackal]

yujp

[narrow kestrel]

Zhi was asking tasim how he was doing

After ascension

[fossil depot]

zhiraok has that perpetual headache/back pain, idk what exactly soosu has, gikyo has it too and has gone psychotic over it. Not idea on what for majin is too

[zenith coral]

like im sure this has fucked them up

imagine having a part of you that is forever hurting

[narrow kestrel]

The way the exact process hasnt been featured in an SD yet

Makes me feel like its gonna be explored in Wastelands

And we have to figure out a way to reverse the Ascension

[zenith coral]

lets not do that

[low ether]

majin's cosmic ghost still haunts him, duh

[zenith coral]

hes just abridged nappa

[narrow kestrel]

im js

Making the ascension have vague problems like these

[fossil depot]

a curious thing is that we have no ultimate discoveries in fruma yet

[narrow kestrel]

Feels like its leading to something worse

[fossil depot]

i wonder if we will have them or nah

[low ether]

Gods I hope that when wastelands drop, they do add the UDs

[full jackal]

wastelands

[zenith coral]

gradual corruption eh? VERY possible

[full jackal]

You gotta do every single one

[zenith coral]

like theres no shot all of anathemas blessings arent having issues with her gone. maybe they all go out or go haywire and start corrupting people

its like an open backdoor

[narrow kestrel]

im assuming the reasoning will be

[fossil depot]

tbh, my headcanon is that all war scions are supposed to be insane, like the world eaters in warhammer. They're supposed to spread blood for their beast, anger and suffering to the world, not be well, governors

[narrow kestrel]

Ana was controlling/maintaining the blessings

And now that shes gone they're basically all gonna turn into Theorick V2

[fossil depot]

war is corrosive and they're supposed to submit to its insanity, but ana does not want that obviously, and as a result we ge the scions having perpetual pain and slowly going insane as time passes

[zenith coral]

like all of frumas stuff that is blessed on her could just straight collapse

or corrupt

[full jackal]

Side note:

I actually really love afelis's character

[narrow kestrel]

This could be a very good explanation tbh

[full jackal]

like he's not even involved in any quests

[narrow kestrel]

As to why Theorick is like that

But we arent

Considering both of us have been to War

[full jackal]

but like he actually characterizes the area so much

and like just having little dialogue shit

[fossil depot]

nah

[full jackal]

Like genuinely it is surprisingly cool

[fossil depot]

i doubt they cts are going to kill off soosu, zhiraok and specially two and tasim

[zenith coral]

having anathemas 'death' lead to a technological dark age or atleast an VERY BIG corruption outbreak is a good plothook

[narrow kestrel]

I didnt say they were gonna die

Im saying that we will probably have a questline based around Ascension

And we have to reverse it

Before they turn to Theorick V2

[low ether]

Pretty sure if they wanted to kill off Zhi, theyd have done it when he overworked himself and died

[narrow kestrel]

Yknow, a bit convenient we ALSO have a mage who can encase them in Ice while they wait for us to do something

[fossil depot]

tasim and two losing their powers would likely compromise the dern questline

[narrow kestrel]

I doubt two's powers come from the queen

[frozen turtle]

im assuming being a scion means you hold onto an aspect of the realm beast, and its like apart of them

[narrow kestrel]

Tasim was already strong enough even without the blessing

🫃

[frozen turtle]

shes the 2nd scion so i feel like it is

[fossil depot]

....she's her second sovereign

[zenith coral]

i still want to know where the thing about tasims powers being for helping navigate dern comes from

[frozen turtle]

thats why she's called Two

[narrow kestrel]

We dont know much about her or her blessing

[narrow kestrel]

But we do know shes lived long ebough so

• the sneak peek we got with her during the vision thing

[frozen turtle]

I feel like she probably had a base power, which was amplified by becoming a sovereign

[split night]

this guy is headcanon this and confuses between canon and headcanon

[fossil depot]

from anathema's post raid dialogue, if i recall correctly

[narrow kestrel]

Who

[zenith coral]

i didnt see that there

[narrow kestrel]

Try checking the post raid gdocs

[fossil depot]

i want to see unmasked two

[split night]

either the most beautiful thing anyone can laid eyes on or eldrich horror that consume you, im fine with either of these options

[narrow kestrel]

Inb4 descendant of Olm

[fossil depot]

i expect her to be a goth olm

[low ether]

why not both

[narrow kestrel]

When are they doing something with Dernel Jungle

This shit is so ass

Troms barely have any content

even though its a really important area in the story

[full jackal]

true

[narrow kestrel]

🫃

[full jackal]

oh my god

yeah ykw i kinda agree

[fossil depot]

dernel jungle is ass

[frozen turtle]

i want more olm lore in dernel jungle

[narrow kestrel]

Throw in ragni in there actually

I kinda hate the idea of quests being so "linear" in locations

like. I want a level 110 quest in ragni

[full jackal]

I mean

[fossil depot]

the humble queens recruit

[full jackal]

A journey home

[fossil depot]

the notorious a journey home

[narrow kestrel]

thats fruma shit though

[fossil depot]

question, what do y'all expect from the silent expanse and ROL rewrites

[full jackal]

RoL rewrite

will emphasize that orphion is an ass

[narrow kestrel]

Rol can fuck off tbh

[frozen turtle]

lari will be removed

[narrow kestrel]

Silent expanse needs more focus

[full jackal]

and lari will be less of a fucking moron

[narrow kestrel]

Its already emphasized

?

[full jackal]

well okay thats an exagerration

[frozen turtle]

I want lari's character to be properly established

[full jackal]

but I want lari to be less annoying i guess

[frozen turtle]

and make more sense

[narrow kestrel]

he starts blasting us when we pet Him 3+ times

[full jackal]

Like in the end she's still ... aghhhh i don't know how to say it

[narrow kestrel]

Ungrateful dog

[frozen turtle]

I wanna see more elf-orphion lore to get why Lari acts the way she does

[full jackal]

she says "i have every right to be angry" mf you tried to kill meee

[frozen turtle]

also idk if this is canon or just me assuming, but
wasnt the reason Orphion abanonded the Elves is because they failed to spread the like, religion of Orphion?

[full jackal]

not really

[frozen turtle]

or what i assume

[narrow kestrel]

Theres a whole ass SD of her trying to open something while basically malding at Orphion right

[full jackal]

there was the guardian of the forest dialogue

[narrow kestrel]

I forgot which one it was

[full jackal]

that is the only time it is acknowledged that orphion is an ass

[frozen turtle]

yeah that one

[narrow kestrel]

?

[frozen turtle]

maybe its also cuz Lari is written badly and easy to hate on, it makes Orphion seem less like an ass

[narrow kestrel]

Wheres this one from

I know about the failed religion thing

[frozen turtle]

there is an SD

about how Elves yeah

[narrow kestrel]

But him leaving the elves to fend for themselves because of that

Where

[full jackal]

taht is totally justified

[frozen turtle]

im pretty sure he doesnt make contact with elves anymore

[narrow kestrel]

I mean

Dog basically locked himself inside ROL

i doubt he could do much outside of it

[slender copper]

Less confusing lore and had the quality of the Fruma stuff. Has better developments in character (Like Lari) and has Orphion clearly manipulating the player (and perhaps internal dialogs of the player not being sure of this to suggest something sinister is going on.)

[frozen turtle]

ah okay, it was a CT making a proposal about a potential rewrite which is that Orphion abandonded Aldorei

but tbf we dont even see

Aldorei elves and Orphion interacting

[narrow kestrel]

A better reason would be the whole fuckinh

Tree cuttign shit

Instead of a failed marketing campaifn

[frozen turtle]

The tree cutting thing let Orphion into the physical plane

i always assumed it was intentional ngl

[zenith coral]

now that the light forest is shaping up to become orphions brand of horror well probably see the elves react to their god putting them in the matrix

[frozen turtle]

yayyy

i dont get why Orphion would be mad at the elves for letting him spread his influence is the thing

[narrow kestrel]

gavin re-reborn because elfilim is doing nothing

[zenith coral]

he would be grateful ofc. he just thinks in the matrix movies the matrix was a good thing

so ofc he would reward his loyal followers with a paradise

isnt that what any good god does?

[frozen turtle]

Orphion is the good guy yeah

Two lied

[full jackal]

look the thing is

orphion being the good guy

[zenith coral]

it would be an interesting trait if he thought himself to be just 100% in the right

[full jackal]

is fucking boring

and generic

[zenith coral]

while not being right at all

[fossil depot]

i'm gonna miss good boy orphion

[frozen turtle]

i think they're setting it up to be, Orphion pretends to be good but isn't

[full jackal]

Oh hahahah lait good dak bad

AGHGHGAHHGAHG

[frozen turtle]

and as Light, it's much easier to decieve people into thinking light is "good"

[zenith coral]

eldritch horror has nice intentions but is just as bad as the worst of mortal villains

[frozen turtle]

like teaching the elves morals, which he doesnt even believe in or has

[fossil depot]

i think this would be better than orphion being openly an asshole and not caring

[zenith coral]

a 'good' eldritch horror is more dangerous than a 'normal' eldritch horror cuz it has an interest and an agenda in you

[full jackal]

the whole teaching elves morals thing is just enforcing his worldview onto his subjects

[fossil depot]

like he just has his head up his ass and think he's right

[frozen turtle]

but im pretty sure it wasnt his worldview

[fossil depot]

while saphanis doesn't care at all and openly fucks things

[frozen turtle]

like, Orphion doesnt have morals does he

[full jackal]

I know i mean if i were to rewrite it that would what i would

fuck

[frozen turtle]

like Pacifism

ah yeah

[zenith coral]

or maybe in his eldritch worldview he IS right. this is a non-human mind who knows how it works

[frozen turtle]

Orphion either believing he's correct or trying to convince everyone he is correct

is good

[fossil depot]

yeah

[slender copper]

Yeah, Fruma very much shows that is what they're going for. Light and Dark don't have morals and their only goal is to expand, Light pretends they are better then Dark however they stand in the same ground as Dark.

[zenith coral]

prolly in the same way an eldritch horror has morals. incomprehensible and probably damaging to mortals either way

[fossil depot]

i'm not a fan of making orphion a scheming villain that tries to make himself look good to fool others

[frozen turtle]

his morals is just, "expand"

[fossil depot]

thats boring and has been done before

i think him having a sense of moral, but ultimately being an ass that thinks hes right about everything is better. like he copes that he's not like saphanis and actually has morals and won't change the world for bad

[zenith coral]

orphion thinking himself in the right while being cartoonishly evil and not getting this 'human' morality thing. He sees people yearning for a better world and goes: "Oh i can do that." and puts them in the matrix

[full jackal]

yeah exactly

[fossil depot]

yeah

[full jackal]

like they both suck but orphion thinks they're all high and mighty

[fossil depot]

thats better than him being an open asshole that wants to use mortals and kill everyone at the end of the day

[full jackal]

while saph just fully recognizes that they suck

[fossil depot]

yeah

[zenith coral]

orphion could have a lowk savior complex, which would make him REALLY dangerous

[zenith coral]

or maybe saph wants everyone to see the joys of the universe (aka turning everyone into cosmic horrors)

[fossil depot]

saphanis knows they both suck and doesn't give a fuck, they're more honest with themselves. like oh, who cares about the mortals i want to own this world, i dont think they're worth my attention

while orphion thinks he's the all-mighty savior

[fossil depot]

that would be really good if executed properly

[zenith coral]

orphion seeing jesus christ and going "HES ME"

or smth like that

[signal bough]

pros: excellent story, complex character
cons: THE DISCOURSE

[fossil depot]

...What kind of discourse though?

[zenith coral]

saphanis is all about rebirth apparently so making him into a nasuverse villain (90% of them want to 'ascend' humanity with more and more horrifying ways) could work

[signal bough]

'orphion is the best hope for the world' vs 'orphion will doom the world'

[fossil depot]

ah

[fossil depot]

thats inevitable, wynn players dont know how to read

[full jackal]

fandoms in general

Said me, thinking that I'm above the fandom

[signal bough]

self-awareness is a blessing

[fossil depot]

even if you write "orphion has a savior complex and saphanis is psychotic, they both suck you dumbass" they would still miss it

[zenith coral]

or maybe all of this just amounts to saphanis and orphion flirting and this is the average collateral damage of realm beasts dating. truly the most destructive gays in history

[full jackal]

self awareness does not absolve anyone of anything

[fossil depot]

who said saphanis isn't a girl

[full jackal]

even though I'm by definition part of the fandom

[slender copper]

checks mental diagnosis Well that's not my fault my brain's weird >:(. /j

[signal bough]

you can make the same arguments as jokes and they can be hilarious

[zenith coral]

if saphanis is a eldritch horror (it prolly is) gender probably doesnt apply

[fossil depot]

all of them are eldritch horrors tho

[zenith coral]

but it would be very funny if this is the only straight romance in wynn

[zenith coral]

well saphanis seems to be much more blatant in this design

[signal bough]

WHO'S THE OTHER PERSON

[zenith coral]

?

[signal bough]

straight romance with the dern beast 😭

[zenith coral]

i meant all of the realms war is just saphanis and orphion flirting

[full jackal]

well guess what???

I STOLE THAT JOKE

[signal bough]

yeah kinda

[zenith coral]

it turns out realm beasts dating cycle is very destructive