📚lore_discussion

[sick quest]

Yeah but shes a figure theyll keep around if they can

[vestal rivet]

I don't think reinstating her as a regional manager is the greatest idea

[sick quest]

To give rhe citizens a face they can recognize

Dont keep her in power keep her as a face

[vestal rivet]

they recognize the face of Zhiraok as well

[sick quest]

True true

Quill will also be rly helpful here

[vestal rivet]

and hated Majin for the most part too

[full jackal]

Yea the problem is that when the Queen is dead, 2 sovereigns are dead, Two is being mysterious as always and Oru runs the prison district, and one of the only resisting sovereigns left is an inventor/depressed child all of Fruma is gonna be complete chaos

[sick quest]

They def need to shift power out of the hands of the sovereigns but itll have to be a slower transition than the rest

[full jackal]

And Rex, Zeph and Quill don’t really have experience in politics, though they definitely could be great

[sick quest]

I honestly think most of fruma doesnt know two exists

[full jackal]

The problem is they don’t have time to actually prepare for running an entire empire

So that means… giving power to nobles

[sick quest]

I mean quill was already a leader and rex and zeph are revolutionary heroes

[full jackal]

(Highlands)

[sick quest]

Worst case scenario

And quill will probably recognize that

Azael would be rly helpful but hes retiring

Uniting mistwoods auburn and timasca wont be too hard but it has to happen fast for the revolutionsry gov to deal w the highlands

[vestal rivet]

ok
Espren will only stay stable because Zhiraok will watch them like a hawk for the time being
Timasca will either be maintained by Soosu and Quill, or it'll be invaded by some random nearby Mistwoods clan, or it'll just fall to gang wars or something
Aldwell is fine, as it's already mostly self-sufficient
Hyloch will be in anarchy most likely, no good way to enforce stuff up there right now while also controlling other areas unless the Canopy changes its mind about wanting to help in post (most of its members anyways)
about right?

[vestal rivet]

dang he is?

missed that

[sick quest]

I think most of canopy will be helpful but azael said he wanted to retire

Rurie will be a very likable public figure and mistwoods might unite under him

[vestal rivet]

he's explicitely uninterested though
and he's a robinhood type, not a good leader in the long term for a nation

[full jackal]

i mean timasca has a massive population so last resort somehow rally all of timasca aldwell and auburn against highlands and threaten them into cooperating

[sick quest]

Also mistwoods will be important to suppress any resistance from deraj

[full jackal]

this will be ridiculously difficult

[sick quest]

Not long term but very good in the short term

[full jackal]

Depends on whether Aldwell trusts the canopy or not ig

[vestal rivet]

Fuhue will have to stay the accountant lol

[sick quest]

Honestly the blossom here will be essential

[vestal rivet]

I believe they do

the Canopy keeps them (mostly) clear of Changelings

[sick quest]

But you have to rid the blossom of loyalists (which that one blossom guy can do)

I mean the mistwoods is very helpful (unfortunately in some part because theyre racist)

[full jackal]

I mean let’s see how the rest of the blossom reacts to the revolution succeeding

[sick quest]

The mistwoods perception of the queen, the highlanders, and the changelings as an “out group” means that they are likely to be the most immediately united

[sick quest]

True true

[vestal rivet]

Mistwoods will be better off than before immediately tbh
less constrained, reducing infighting
but at the same time it's not good for any area bordering the Mistwoods I don't think

[sick quest]

Absolutely true

[full jackal]

like if they’re cool with us using overwhelming violence then I guess you could use their propaganda to rally lesser houses against the greater ones

[vestal rivet]

random Maulers no longer being kept out of Highlands and Roughworks

[sick quest]

They are unfortunately the group that will be the most likely to be extreme in their punishment of highlanders and loyalists

[full jackal]

but where would they even get the resources to fund the propaganda campaigns though…

[sick quest]

Which alienates middle of the lane laborers and middle class

[sick quest]

Seizing wealth from high nobility

[sick quest]

Oh yeah

There will be a big crime boost

Aid from Ragni here will be essential

[full jackal]

I guess player could threaten them enough to make them give the money

[vestal rivet]

this is what I've been talking about this whole time lol
the Mistwoods aren't united, it's just the Canopy that's united with us

[chilly tulip]

Is Ragni able to add that much?

[full jackal]

like better poor than have your entire bloodline dead in 5 seconds

[vestal rivet]

maybe the Peacekeeper clan will help us out but everyone else? no

[sick quest]

I mean the aldwell clans will be helpful but yeah u right

[chilly tulip]

Because without recruits from Fruma won’t they be dealing more with the Corruption now

[full jackal]

wait maybe we could try getting kind of ragni to step in a bit

[full jackal]

yea that is gonna be a big problem too

[sick quest]

Itll be in the interest of the king of ragni to immediately normalize relations w the new fruma because of this

[vestal rivet]

like most of the clans either won't care or will go rogue and start thrashing and mugging in Highlands and Roughworks lol

[sick quest]

Plus the fruman exiles have an interest in stabilizing fruma

[full jackal]

but like the brainwashing thing ain’t cool though that’s probably going to have to stop

[sick quest]

Oh for sure

The highlands are also a problem because theyre in between ragni and the rest of fruma

Hence making relations difficult

[chilly tulip]

Well only kind of right

[sick quest]

Fruma will also have a problem dealing with another monarch so they might be antagonistic against ragni

The pc will be rly important there

[chilly tulip]

Tbf Rangi’s king is just a guy

[full jackal]

i suppose the highlanders would be more friendly towards a king though…

[sick quest]

Yeah but past revolutionary movements have been very antagonistic againdt any form of monarchy

[chilly tulip]

Oh god are we going to have to deal with potential fantasy racism with Frumans and Villagers

[sick quest]

Very true

[full jackal]

ugh its really hard to square the highlander’s own interests against the good for everyone else

[sick quest]

Oh for sure

Theyve literally never seen a villager before

[full jackal]

Have you seen how literally anyone in Wynncraft reacts when someone has slightly different facial features from them

[sick quest]

The pc will have to stay in fruma for some time to deal w internal strife and normalize relations between fruma and ragni and fruma and corkus

[full jackal]

no like really true though

[chilly tulip]

Do you think Corkus would be okay with any of this?

[sick quest]

If oru acts as a competent warden of deraj and chief of the inquisition itll be rly important

[full jackal]

timasca might start falling into gang wars

like the citizens are definetely for us

[sick quest]

I mean corkians were exiled from fruma because of the queens regime

[full jackal]

but theres always gonna be those bad eggs that use the opportunity to take over

[sick quest]

Theyll likely be very favorable to any revolutionary gov

[sick quest]

Yeah

The fruman revolutionary gov needs to not fuck up and do anything like an operation paperclip

[full jackal]

i mean stabilization efforts for a place like fruma with such insane racism classism poverty

good luck thats gonna take decades

[sick quest]

I might actually chart some of this out

[chilly tulip]

What about the Changelings that may just be running around the Mistwoods

[full jackal]

Canopy could deal with them i guess????

i mean they’re not staying in hegea

[chilly tulip]

So that’s just murder then?

[full jackal]

so… yea I guess there are now dozens of shapeshifters running about

[full jackal]

welp… yes

also the mistwood clans though

[chilly tulip]

And the Clans in the Mistwoods already condem innocent people to death too

[wispy flicker]

is lari x ava canon

[sick quest]

I would immediately place the most competent military commanders of the revolution at the head of all the forts

[sick quest]

Not at all

Theyve never met

[full jackal]

i mean cileon is a good pick

[wispy flicker]

that sucks

[ashen salmon]

no they meet in the dern expansion and they make out sloppy style for 3 hours straight

[sick quest]

Go to each noble house evict the elites and turn the houses over to revolutionary highlanders

[full jackal]

uhhh… arnol i guess could do… something?

[sick quest]

Dismantle the walls where you can

[chilly tulip]

Will that not just lead to effectively new noble houses

Eventually

[sick quest]

As a revolutionary highlander he will be helpful

[sick quest]

Eventually but only if u allow them to remain therr for a long period of time

Use them as an intermediary for the highlands

[full jackal]

i mean that might have some consequences…

[sick quest]

If u put in non highlanders u risk further alienation

And if u leave them empty u risk even greater alienation

[chilly tulip]

Also isn’t one of those houses effectively a magic school

[full jackal]

pretty much

[chilly tulip]

Like are you gonna evict the students

[sick quest]

That one can remain intact

[full jackal]

one of them is an entire military barracks

and one of them are ultrakill 7-1

[chilly tulip]

What about the sculpture one

[sick quest]

That one u have to institute a loyal commander

[sick quest]

Evict temporarily long term make it a museum

[full jackal]

i mean i guess you could always bribe them to cooperate but doesn’t feel very revolutionary at all

[chilly tulip]

And what about Nasin?

[sick quest]

Remember those schools are run by nutty houses

[sick quest]

Dont do that

[full jackal]

zhiraok is the goat

he’s fine he can stay

[sick quest]

Leave nasin be temporarily

[chilly tulip]

I mean then a bunch of the Highlands is going to be confused why not all the houses were disbanded

[sick quest]

Consolidate clan leadership in aldwell and tell them u will no longer isolate the mistwoods and normalize trade w timasca

[sick quest]

Nah they wont

Revolutionary forces remain intact

Loyalists disbanded

[full jackal]

i mean it’d be temporary until they figure everything out just to appease them… but it feels really icky and gross

[sick quest]

Long term disband all

[sick quest]

Bribing is a rly dangerous thing because u tell them they have power over u

[full jackal]

like imagine bribing the bourgeoisie with money eww

[full jackal]

they kinda do tho T_T

Unless player kills all of them

[sick quest]

All loyalists in highlands have to be taken out of positions of power before they can launch any real counter movement

[sick quest]

Nah u can just evict them w revolutionary military

Thats another important thingp

[full jackal]

how much revolutionary military is there even

[sick quest]

Most ordinary soldiers wont be too hard to change once you negotiate w their commanders and input your own

[sick quest]

Basically only the canopy

Hence why u have to act fast

[full jackal]

i mean timasca people are sickly

[sick quest]

And forceful

[full jackal]

espren is peaceful

[sick quest]

Espren has a lot of revolutionary sentiment

And competent hunters

[full jackal]

mistwoods i guess you could try getting the clansmen to help

[full jackal]

ohhh right the hunters

[sick quest]

Mistwoods the clansmen have a vested interest in erasing any loyalist government so they are no longer isolated

[cinder cedar]

Espern also has good amount of mana users in hiding

[full jackal]

I mean we kinda killed commander ferreo so the tericen people aren’t going to like is very mich

[sick quest]

Immediate rerouting of funds to helping timasca and espren

[full jackal]

oh wait

yea get the cursed people

[sick quest]

Build espren as new capital

[sick quest]

Some of the tericen people dont seem fond of ferreo

[full jackal]

tell them that they’re now welcome in fruma, as long as they help us in highlands

but then you have to get rid of the social stigma behind them

[sick quest]

And the rest u can cow into submission before they organize any leafership

[full jackal]

which… is hard

[sick quest]

Wont be too hard after a revolution

Revolutions and wars are really good starters for social change

Civil rights movement as an example

[full jackal]

i guess

[full jackal]

that is true but still segregation lasted till the 60s

[sick quest]

Yeah because it was an external war not an internal war

[full jackal]

so like the cursed are gonna have a long fight ahead of them

[sick quest]

OHHH YEAH

Cursed will be hard

But also they did just save auburn

[full jackal]

i mean… are civil wars external

[sick quest]

So auburn will be fine

[sick quest]

Nah internal

[full jackal]

i mean if zhi and xao just say

[sick quest]

Im talking abt ww2

[full jackal]

hey guys thr cursed are cool now and saved us

[full jackal]

oh i thought you meant the civil war

[cinder cedar]

put up public info and showcasing how cursed magic can be beneficial and helpful to society, promise civil rights for magic users and make the schools teach magic

[sick quest]

Yeah thatll work well anywhere other than highlands

[cinder cedar]

they already do teach magic but lift some of the restrictions

and kaboom

[full jackal]

The highlands again ughhh

maybe rebrand the cursed

like highlands has an entire magic school

just say that the cursed are like them and that theyre actually different from the cursed

[sick quest]

Oh yeah it all comes back to propaganda and the problems w the highlands

They the worst

[full jackal]

trueee

like there are ofc a lot of good people who are willing to help

[cinder cedar]

you fight propaganda with your own and educating the public

[sick quest]

Aka blossom

And use of remaining sovereigns

[full jackal]

but also… there are a lot of Wynncraft equivalents of maga for queen in there

so like the whole thing is to use zhi and soosu to curry favor with auburn and timasca while promising to deisolate aldwell so rally the 3 provinces then evict the noble houses after negotiating with commanders/threaten them sith players and replace them with less selfish people more willing to work with revolution then rebuild fruma with less division and racism and exploitation while slowly removing power from houses

and also stopping gangs from taking over roughworks

politics is hard T_T

[sick quest]

fr bro

dude i need to get a job but rn politics r such a mess

[full jackal]

i’m not even from
America (or even the west, I’m from macao sar, china) but the state of the world and the prices of everything rn are stressing me out

[sick quest]

W china W china

But yeah we got the israelis fkin shit up the US fkin shit up UK politics are a mess

Im british american

[full jackal]

welp at least its sorta possible to deal with the highlanders

[sick quest]

inshallah we get a competent Fruman Revolutionary Gov

[full jackal]

as long as you actually are able to get military power

[sick quest]

None of that highlander make fruma great again shit

[signal bough]

fortunately resistance attacks have led to the death of many high ranking members of the fruman nobility

[full jackal]

i think it sorta depends on whether caves are canon

cuz if they are then we’ve completely decimated all fruman nobility and have crushed their military forces

[signal bough]

yeah we get an early quest cave or two

[full jackal]

they are not gonna recover from that

if not then we’re in for a tough ride

[vestal rivet]

so how does this conflict with what I said

[full jackal]

it doesn’t

[vestal rivet]

Am I still wrong then

[full jackal]

you were completely correct in saying that many people are going to try and take advantage of this to create gang wars in the other 3 provinces. I also think its true that most people in those provinces sides with the revolution

[vestal rivet]

or did you just not like the wording or something

[full jackal]

wait what did i mispeak wait

[full jackal]

oh wait was it this

yea wait no i mean i was agreeing with you

[vestal rivet]

I think I messed up reading your initial responce

[full jackal]

no i mean i think i phrased it a bit weird i mean that fruma is in such complete turmoil that although itd be very easy getting the general populace of the poor regions to side with us

there are going to be some people that take advantage of this to start gang wars like you said

and like this is a problem because although they’re weak on their own you have to deal with highlanders at the same time

so i guess have the steel feather quell the gang stuff

have the canopy deal with changelings

and everyone else try and negotiate with the military to get rid of loyalists

[vestal rivet]

Canopy will most likely be a very temporary armed force in the Highlands and whatnot, and then continue to hunt any remaining Changelings that are still at large that they can find
They will also most likely be our defense against the Wastelands for the time being, as someone else said
what they will not be is a permanant governing force, and they shouldn't be relied on for that imo

[marble lantern]

Transitional Authority? or something like that

[vestal rivet]

Azael apparently wants to retire soon
Rurie is explicitly uninterested in staying around
Fuhue isn't a public face
Cileon just won't talk enough (and tbh both he and Fuhue may have a similar stance to Rurie, just niether have outright said it yet afaik)

[signal bough]

Fuhue is seemingly interested

[full jackal]

i mean auburn is the easiest region cuz they don’t have gans or clans or changelings or houses, they all like zhiraok and were almost killed by queen so loyalists will be extremely unpopular. Timasca can get behind Soosu i suppose as long as she promises to improve their living conditions. Honestly timasca… so many of these people are completely uneducated and have unfortunately come to accept their current conditions but I’m sure a lot of them have a desire for a better future. The gangs will be a big problem though. What will we even do with these fucking bourgeoisie factory owners anyways…

i mean we want a better future for fruma

but also i don’t want it to be run by tankies

[vestal rivet]

the factory owners will bend immediately I think lol

if they're allowed to live and still run stuff they'll consider themselves lucky

[full jackal]

I guess we just continue to let them run stuff

for now…

[signal bough]

Zhiraok's alignment with... well, I don't think he explicitly aligned himself with the resistance, just opposed the monarchy, but good enough

[vestal rivet]

I mean, we still need some people who know how to actually manage the factories

[full jackal]

Yea i mean we can’t just suddenly change everything at once though

[vestal rivet]

the resistance will help and support him because he's the only good option that's at all favorable for them

[signal bough]

his control of industrial and auburn means that's half of fruma that would align

[vestal rivet]

and he will accept

[full jackal]

like thay will be disastrous but like we do what stuff to change too

[vestal rivet]

exactly
at least at first the factory owners will be able to stick around

[signal bough]

the mistwoods are solidly Canopy, so the highlands, aelumia, and wastelands are the problems

[full jackal]

ughh honestlh i kinda realize that revolution is hard

[vestal rivet]

they operated on heavy restrictions before
they can just operate with different restrictions now I think

[signal bough]

just appoint a factory worker who knows both letters and numbers.

[vestal rivet]

won't work as well as keeping the old blokes at least as a temporary measure

[full jackal]

Honestly i still don’t know what the roughworkers are producing so much for

[signal bough]

energy drinks...

[vestal rivet]

last thing we need is for the remainder of Fruma's industrial capacity to finish collapsing and bringing a famine

[full jackal]

like, do we need that much cheese and bread and stuff?

[vestal rivet]

no, but we still need a good amount

because people do this thing called eating

[full jackal]

and how are we even supposed to bring about democracy at this rate T_T

like i’d really love fruma to become a democracy

[vestal rivet]

restructure what's already there

[vestal rivet]

a republic with each region being its own state could also work

[full jackal]

but how would you even… augh

[full jackal]

i mean i trust auburn and mistwoods to be fine

as long as we don’t do first past the post

[vestal rivet]

the infrastructire is already there for the most part
no need to dismantle the parts that work when you can reform, in the case of the roughworks you need to change the restrictions from a high quota to having safety standards
and also reduce the cost of living, I think the government owned most of the housing

[full jackal]

what I’m really concerned about is the poor education in roughworks

like i don’t want them electing a fascist dictator who stops elections but then… that would be…

ughhh

like i don’t want any dictators but also highlands is gonna take so much forcr and how would you even……

[vestal rivet]

this is why we don't institute a republic or democracy immediately
let Zhiraok hold the helm for the time being

[full jackal]

yea i guess

[signal bough]

I need president Azael

it would be so funny

[vestal rivet]

Azael wants to retire I think

also being a leading public leader figure would make his agelessness stand out even more

[abstract snow]

president cileon 🔥

[full jackal]

I mean… i don’t want it to be one of those cases where they keep talking about getting rid of oppressive forces while instead replacing the old oppresive forces witht the new ones

[vestal rivet]

a debate starts
Cileon says 3 total words

[full jackal]

cuz that happens a lot and its just so hypocritical

[abstract snow]

exactly lol

[full jackal]

like how do we even ensure that the new leaders afterwards aren’t evil as hell

[vestal rivet]

and his 3 words are "Don't vote me"

[full jackal]

cileon is more of a fighter

[vestal rivet]

Zhiraok has proven himself for the most part already I think

[signal bough]

Azael philosopher-king...

actually hold on

Sovereign immortality is separate from the Blessing

[vestal rivet]

immortal too, unless Anathema getting yeeted out of conscious existence removed that

[full jackal]

yea… even though zhiraok is the goat i don’t like the idea of someone from the old admin being in chatge but… oh well

[low ether]

I mean at least they're honest and know they can't lead more than the Foxes

[signal bough]

and appears to come from the weird place in the northwest of Auburn

[full jackal]

Its related to the wellspring of eternity, completely unrelated to blessing i think

Wait does the wellspring prevent disease though

[signal bough]

which means Fruma has the best-known immortality fountain in all three provinces

[full jackal]

like can you still die of covid if you’re immortal

Via wellspring

[vestal rivet]

Zhiraok is the best option
I think trying to keep him out or remove him just because he was part of the old system is silly
don't let idealism and grudges get in the way of rebuilding, let them tame what happens instead of being an ungodly amount of red tape

[low ether]

Uhhhh
tbh I've perceived the immortality as passive: so long as they're not actively being targeted for a kill, they'll live on

[vestal rivet]

Cileon is explicitely he :/

[full jackal]

well he saved rex at least thats good enough

[low ether]

CILEON????

Both Fuhue and Rurie say they when referring to Cileon, huh--

[vestal rivet]

they say he

[low ether]

Where

[vestal rivet]

Gikyo is they

[low ether]

No like actually, where do they call Cileon by he/him, cos I've only ever seen they for Cileon as well

[full jackal]

yea you’re right. I mean, at least we know zhi actually cares for the people from what we hear in auburn

[low ether]

Ik in True Colours they both say they, which could be misconstrued as referring to all the Foxes
but no, thats specifically Cileon

[full jackal]

i mean like just a questline to stabilize fruma

is gonna be a 47 parter

cuz societal change is hard and complicated

[vestal rivet]

ok found it
you're right

[low ether]

Yeahah Cileon's is easier to miss, did the same mistake 😭 only realized like...before Apo iirc

[vestal rivet]

it will 99% be a DnD case where we screw off for a while and come back to find a bunch of NPC dialogue about it already being underway but also hard and slow

Cileon gives big guy vibes

[full jackal]

i mean imagine a quest that goes like this

[vestal rivet]

confusing but whatever

[full jackal]

Rallying the masses stage VI

[low ether]

Masc enby then

[vestal rivet]

what

[low ether]

...Masculine non-binary

[full jackal]

make up a bunch of bullshit to co-opt populist rhetoric and blah blah blah

[signal bough]

Cileon: Pronouns. He/they.

[full jackal]

ughgghhh

[full jackal]

fair honestly

[vestal rivet]

people actually go by that??

[low ether]

Yes????

[signal bough]

yeah

[vestal rivet]

new for me

[full jackal]

literally me???

[low ether]

SAME??? except one is she

[vestal rivet]

didn't look at your bio until now

[signal bough]

he/they, she/they, she/him...

[vestal rivet]

tf is that last one meant to be

[signal bough]

not even getting into neopronouns

[full jackal]

yea no thats fine lmao i don’t really read bios too much

[low ether]

Doesn't have a preference

Or does but is fine with either

[full jackal]

i mean people are always like “neopronouns are hard!!!”

[vestal rivet]

we live in confusing times apparently
anyways

[full jackal]

mf have u seen those insanely inflective languages

[vestal rivet]

they do be like that sometimes

[low ether]

Despairing, more like 😭
Derailed to fuck all because I called Cileon they, cool great lovely

[vestal rivet]

assigning genders to random inanimate objects because reasons

[signal bough]

like, spanish?

[vestal rivet]

yeah a lot of languages just
do that

[low ether]

Ai señor, yeah Spanish is oops! all gendered language

[vestal rivet]

spanish and german off the top of my head

[full jackal]

honestly that stuff is more confusing than neopronouns will ever be

[signal bough]

french, presumably the rest of the latin languages too

[vestal rivet]

one, people have dealt with far longer

[signal bough]

italian, portuguese, romanian

[vestal rivet]

english is an exception yeah

[signal bough]

didnt know german did it

[full jackal]

they default call the word “feminine” in português (femeninO) and the word for beard “barbA” like wtf

[signal bough]

so is that the case for the other germanic languages like danish and swedish?

[low ether]

Ditto for Spanish, depending
we do both femeninA and femeninO though

[vestal rivet]

I think more languages do it than don't do it
as far as european languages at least

[signal bough]

okay so swedish doesnt have gendered objects but german does???

[low ether]

Going back to the earlier thing, yeah Cileon would at least be honest about like
Don't vote me, cause they know
they wouldnt crave power, plus they dislike cities

[vestal rivet]

anyways have fun underailing I have stuff I need to do

[spring kernel]

i mean isn't that just most languages that aren't english

[signal bough]

oh god grammatical gender is evolving

[full jackal]

maybe they lost it sometime during evolution from
Proto-germanic

[signal bough]

def later

[full jackal]

some even use animacy and inanimacy

[low ether]

tbh and this isnt related to the politics/reforming thing, they seem like they'd be good to spar against ngl
im down for a challenge that ends in a standstill

[full jackal]

yea

[signal bough]

sweden doesn't, parts of denmark historically don't, but norway and iceland also have grammatical gender

[low ether]

And only a standstill cause fat chance they'll lose that spar

[spring kernel]

not having gendered articles is kinda the exception

[low ether]

or thin. next to none, idk

[signal bough]

what is cileon's class? assassin it seems

[low ether]

Assassin/warrior hybrid probably

The Foxes tend to be in-your-face (going by Canopy Ambush on Foray East) though

[signal bough]

fuhue seems like a weird mage

[low ether]

Fuhue/Deers are support
Owls strike from afar but would probably approach if they can get a kill

[spring kernel]

classes don't really work for npcs

[low ether]

Still fun to speculate tbf, even if it falls apart

[full jackal]

Prefix before... Example Typical meaning
consonant vowel
1 m- m-[a] mw-[a] mtu "person" Humans, animate / Singular
2 wa- wa- w(a)-[b] watu "people" Humans, animate / Plural
3 m- m-[a] mw-[a] mti "tree" Plants, inanimate / Singular
4 mi- mi- my- miti "trees" Plants, inanimate / Plural
5 ji- (ji-)[c] (j-)[c] jicho "eye" Various / Singular
6 ma- ma- ma-[d] macho "eyes" Various / Plural
7 ki- ki- ch-/ki-[e] kitabu "book" Various, diminutives, manner/way/language / Singular
8 vi- vi- vy-/vi-[e] vitabu "books" Various, diminutives, manner/way/language / Plural
9 N- n-[f] ny- simba "lion" Animals, inanimate / Singular
10 N- n-[f] ny- simba "lions", funguo "keys" Animals, inanimate / Plural
11 u- u- u-/uw-/w-[g] ufunguo "key" Things with an extended outline shape
14 u- u- u-/uw-/w-[g] utu "humanity" Abstract nouns
15 ku- ku- ku-/kw-[h] kula "eating, consuming" Infinitives
16 -ni/pa- -[i] -[i] mahali "place" Locatives (proximal, exact)
17 -ni/ku- Locatives (distal, approximate)
18 -ni/m- Locatives (interior

swahili classes

[low ether]

But yeahah, Cileon looks like they'd be fun/a challenge to spar against and dammit I'm gnawing at the bit

[full jackal]

i mean i think they’d be like playing swordsman-esque

i imagine they could tank hits a lot

[low ether]

They're absolutely a swordsman, they say it in uhhh
fucking what was it, Shrouded in Mist?

[full jackal]

Maybe i think

[low ether]

If memory serves, "Fox Captain. Swordsman, too."

cant check rn FUCK

[full jackal]

i mean how many people do you think are in the canopy canonically tho

cuz they have enough forces to storm the capital

[drifting aurora]

they dont storm the capital

they have enough to occupy one sector

[full jackal]

okay yea storm is a bad word

uh i mean uh

i mean like we only ever see like maybe 20ish people in the canopy if i haven’t misremembered

[low ether]

I wanna say ~50, between all divisions, spread out within the Mistwoods
Maybe a bit less from the casualties that occur, but still a decent amount

[full jackal]

yeah i mean 50 seems reasonable

[low ether]

I was right but I forgot that they introduced themselves by name because the dialogue comes up from "Who are you?"

[full jackal]

i think i remember that

[low ether]

They defo lost numbers tho, between casualties and the injured
Injured can bounce back, sure, but casualties? nope
think they lost ~8 or so total though, I know Rurie mentioned three (two Foxes, one Owl i think it was), Fuhue mentions....fffive? or eight

[full jackal]

Oh my goodness its 3:14am what am i doing

[low ether]

Within different quests I should add

Ah! There we are! Twelve injured allies, five casualties, one bout of madness... talisman stockpiles mostly burned through - only two remaining, we'll have to produce more...
-Fuhue, tail end of Apotheosis
Good enough, they've lost 8 total members that we know of

Found the other one

We have... learned that the hard way. Three casualties. Two foxes, and one owl.
-Rurie, Ensemble of Hope
The casualties were to a gendarme soldier

Okayyy maybe I should briefly buzz off and eat before I'm rushed to finish eating.
Fuckin specific mentions of the Canopy, and I run over like a heat seeking missile I s2g

[signal bough]

irl casualty means 'no longer fit to fight' but I can tell the CT is using it as a nicer way to say they're dead

[low ether]

The frick I always perceived casualty in this sort of context, irl and not as it meaning death

...oh irl casualty can also mean death, ty wikipedia

[signal bough]

injury, death, captured, or even just MIA

[low ether]

Actually wait shit, Rurie says right after,

Preparations are in order for burial rights, but we are still deep in the operation! No time to grieve just yet.

So thats minimum three confirmed deaths, max eight that we're currently aware of

[signal bough]

so if Fuhue was using proper military terminology he would say 18 casualties, five of those dead and one struck by a bout of madness

[low ether]

She*
the bout of madness is probably Anathema though

Also 18 casualties would come off as 18 deaths on first read, and to those that connect casualty with death
Plus her specifying injuries makes sense, since it probably helps with the whole list thing she likes to do

[signal bough]

damn, def didnt catch that

[regal spire]

Ana “bout of madness” “Queen of Fruma” “Beast of War” Thema

[low ether]

I kinda figured with how she emphasized "one bout of madness", it related to the whole shitshow with the rift in the sky
Also having to take that into account when crunching the numbers, while (understandably) having Rurie rush her because again, the rift

[signal bough]

well I'm glad that it seems only a small percentage of the population went crazy

including Hyhet

[low ether]

Better small than uh
mass panic and subsequent madness from that

[vestal rivet]

I said this if you look a few messages below that but ok

I have like 5mins have we decided anything or is it still the same roughly

[signal bough]

do you think one of the past sovereigns changed their gender identity and that's what led to fruma's modern acceptance 🤔

[formal bridge]

No it's cause they're ruled by a trans woman /j

Most likely the queen got sick of intolerances like that and told them to cut it out. Classism is fine, she clearly made the districts the way they are for a reason. But there's no point in getting people angry at eachother, if anything that'll just promote more crime and dissident activity. She much rather have people afraid of the crown's authority than eachother

[signal bough]

the player not only kills a trans woman, the player forcibly detransitions her beforehand.
this is only one of many reasons that the player's actions in fruma are extremely problematic, and I will be releasing a video essay shortly on why anyone who plays through Fruma is a bad person... /j

[spring kernel]

the player is problematic medias

[earnest prairie]

well i mean we are technically a criminal

[dense python]

a criminal under the decree of a dead ruler

[earnest prairie]

aided-robbery, all degrees of murder, drugging, border crossing, terrorism…

[dense python]

and a dead government too

[earnest prairie]

we might as well go on that villain wiki online

[dense python]

so effectively, innocent!

[signal bough]

Killed a nonbinary person, killed an asexual man, and then overthrew a perfectly legitimate government as opposed to engaging in peaceful protest

and had no care for military lives!

[slender copper]

So Gikyo, Zhiroak, Fruma?

[signal bough]

gikyo, majin, fruma

I would call Zhiraok gay but Tasim is already the token gay

[low ether]

cant forget kidnapping! changeling or not!

Majin being ace
imma be honest I dont see that
I can see Zhi as ace, maybe aromantic as well, but not Majin

[signal bough]

did you miss the 'celibate for a hundred years' line?

[low ether]

Single =/= celibate tho

[signal bough]

wait lemme check

[low ether]

Ye it says he's been single, not celibate LOL

[signal bough]

damn

[mossy widget]

also majin is totally older than 100 so he isnt necessarily asexual…………

[signal bough]

I remember a line where the person he was seen with was a new Thalas servant

[low ether]

So high chance he's, for a lack of better phrasing, bagged a few individuals, but either hasn't been able to, or just doesn't want to commit to a relationship
and tbh I can see the latter the most, cause not everyone can compare to his
his. uh. whatever words he'd use to boost the fuck out his ego

[mossy widget]

though i doubt anyome would want #that

except like

maybe gikyo

[low ether]

Wildcard of a changeling, either they'll want to do torture or
That™, whatever the hell they please tbh

[low ether]

At the very least he gives bi vibes to me

Maybe even pan

[spring kernel]

not sure if majin is asexual he probably just has really bad game

[low ether]

THAT TOO LOL

[slender copper]

looks at A House Divided SD
Is there lore conformation that Majin decided to not pursue anyone?

[low ether]

So high and mighty and for what

[signal bough]

no he just gives me that vibe

[low ether]

House div...is that the Nasin SD

[spring kernel]

yeah

majin isn't gay, he's just a bit fruity

[low ether]

Okay then F no, absolutely not ace if he got Gale to rightfully fume in the diary

[signal bough]

'a bit'

[low ether]

And probably not ace nowadays--dawg a bit is an understatement with how he flaunts what he's got
even if it's his residence for the most part

Gay, strictly no, bi or pan, more believable imo

Meanwhile Zhiraok doesnt seem to want anything to do with...any of that, really and I dont blame him, less with what he's stated about uhh...what was it, him feeling uncomfortable when he's looked at a certain way? obviously not the same words, but the vibe's there

Then there's Gikyo
imma keep calling them a wildcard for a reason, and it sure as heck applies here too

[rustic nexus]

he prefers if people were attracted to his personality and what he's done

not how he looks

[split night]

Majin flirt with gale by giving her dead snakes

i think he's just a psychopath

[low ether]

Thats what it was, ty ty

[rustic nexus]

I think majin is too self centered

to "love" anyone else

[zenith coral]

or maybe his view of love is irrevocably screwed (no evidence for this but i can imagine him thinking putting dead snakes infront of gales room is a 100% guaranteed way to woo her and its what everyone does)

[split night]

he's just creepy asshole bully

i hope that best describe that aspect of him

[slender copper]

In short, he deserved to die and better stay in his grave.

[chilly tulip]

Do you think Gale could show up in Fruma at some point?

Blizzard shows that she can leave the Hive

[slender copper]

Not in Fruma, that's for sure. But perhaps in a future update we can get more dialog from her.

[slim belfry]

Xao:

[signal bough]

Majin’s power is in itself attractive

[slender copper]

I haven't found any interactions that suggest something more then a sovereign with his assistant.

[slender copper]

You find the inky abyss and the multitudes of stars attractive? I just find them pretty 💀

[signal bough]

Not me but like

[formal bridge]

I personally headcanon Zhiraok as ace but not aromantic. He doesn't get why the gardener has the hots for him but he is very close to Xao

[signal bough]

A sovereign, especially the sovereign of the Highlands, is a very important person

That sort of power, and a position next to that person who could influence them, is attractive

[slender copper]

...so someone who is of a higher standings and having cosmic powers... is attractive.

Where did that thought come from- you sure it's not you?

[low ether]

Probably from a place of "Yeah I get it"

[zenith coral]

attractive like a black hole ig

[drifting aurora]

could she? yeah. will she want to? absolutely not

[zenith coral]

zhiraok is in love with paperwork and will commission soosu to built him a perfect partner out of it

[zenith coral]

will it get dropped?

[drifting aurora]

?

[zenith coral]

will there be no follow up stuff

[slim belfry]

nobody is gonna say lol

[zenith coral]

ig

im just not very confident in this stuff

prolly a me issue

[drifting aurora]

there'll probably be followup. i just think gale has made very clear that she doesnt want to go back

[zenith coral]

nt neccessarily going back just more dialogue or elaboration

[drifting aurora]

ok well thats not what i responded to

[mossy widget]

i mean theres already an interaction with gale abt fruma

very shortly

[zenith coral]

eh ig

all of the hive has been in limbo since conception while they all wave flags of 'we will be important later' and i just dont have much faith (for no reason too) that it will get picked up

mental issues for me ig

we will see if the dern arc comes out and in the epilogue of it qira admits to having missed the ocnflict she prepared for. which is prolly whats gonna happen (assuming qira prepared for dern and not space season 2)

[slim belfry]

LOL if that happens gosh

[dim plover]

I always wanted a quest or a region where the monsters are so powerful that we needed Qira's assist

Had it way back before 1.19 was announced

I guess then I was still under the impression that Road to Dern was going to be a lot less "natural" than it turned out to be

If Dern turns out to be an absolute nightmare of a location we could use her help though

Assuming it's the real endgame, have the world mobs be just barely beatable by us and have quest mobs canonically require her as an ally to even stand a chance

Also this would be cool

[exotic bough]

On the topic of gale and worldbuilding- it’d be neat if there were weathered pages found across the ocean and gavel that were signed by gale using initials

And also with the ones in the ocean (possibly western gavel as well) also using NA years

[dim plover]

But what if the player misinterprets them as "Goodnight"

Because GN

[exotic bough]

Solidarity of Steel could be used as distress signal then but I digress

[split night]

that's just horrible 😭

all that slavery and murder

all that just to miss what you prepared for

[digital swan]

Nah bro she just an elf noway Realm of Dern isn't driving her insane after at max a week

[split night]

at worst she look like herself with murderous tendency

[zenith coral]

I just cant see them including the qira stuff in anything

[split night]

or straight up roaring lari

i have no problem with the hypothetical that qira might miss it

[zenith coral]

it seems incredibly unlikeley

[split night]

because if she did, it would be funny as hell

[zenith coral]

well get 1 line that she missed it from one of her servants and never interact with her. boom. done. thats all were going to get out of that storyline

this is what the writers are prolly gonna do

im 100% confident (and i may be delusional)

[clear scaffold]

i'd like to point out qira is preparing for a war.

Less of a possible war and more of a "oh yeah it's gonna happen"

[dim plover]

Hope she gets better because a single human pretty much decimated a portion of her army and all the division leaders there

Or if they struggled through the Hive they sure won't at their current capabilities

[slender copper]

OH that makes a lot more sense then 💀

[zenith coral]

and fitting too

[zenith coral]

well she was wearing a shirt which gave her -1000% to all stats so she is stronk

[regal spire]

Well, it’s not like dark and light aren’t fighting nonstop

[clear scaffold]

yeah she was essentially nerfing herself. and to be fair a few people have beaten the challenges

[regal spire]

Eventually, one would either overpower the other, or find a way to fight harder

[clear scaffold]

i think the player's one of the few people to actually fight qira though

[zenith coral]

also she wasnt fighting us with her real body

[clear scaffold]

i mean for qira to take part in

[clear scaffold]

this is just headcanon

she has an armour piece that nerfs herself

but that's the clsoest it gets.

[zenith coral]

do explain what the giant spider on the ceiling is then

[regal spire]

If either wins, it’s the end of everything. I feel like she knows this, and is making an army to fight against the inevitable tide that will come

[clear scaffold]

probably source of all the minions i cannot remember the name of

[regal spire]

It’s just her pet

[clear scaffold]

i would love to be on her side in that one

[zenith coral]

will she be relevant or will she be "potentially important"

[regal spire]

Considering she’s not a story line character, who knows

[clear scaffold]

seeing how qira is an oddball in gavel in where tf she came from, you could see it

[zenith coral]

or will we get an offhanded comment that she has bunkered down and is just surviving

[regal spire]

But, basically everything points to the entirety of the hive being narratively important

Qira’s role, Gale’s connection to Fruma, and the potential that Qira might be related to a special influence

[clear scaffold]

i think qira's the only character which doesn't fit in gavel because not even gavel knows much about her

We still need to tell gale majin's fate

[regal spire]

Darkness must’ve had another Scion, fr

Qira might’ve fit that role

[zenith coral]

yeah but at this point i have somehow deluded myself into believing the chances of her being integrated in the 'war on dern' arc are zero nata

[clear scaffold]

qira being a scion who rebelled would be so funny

[slim belfry]

she could

heck I also think Qira is a mana weaver

[regal spire]

So far, every Scion is either rebelling, or being ghosted

[zenith coral]

my hc is that she is a super big spider from before the first clash and she got traumatized when orphion and saphanis razed it all to the ground

[regal spire]

She’s got a wand, though

[zenith coral]

or being bak'al

[regal spire]

Wait, manaweavers are a different thing

[clear scaffold]

i do wonder how bak'al got in contact with sephanis

[slim belfry]

hmm good point

she definitely uses the wand so likely not then

[zenith coral]

maybe this is a human thing but unlikeley

[regal spire]

Qira might actually be able to see the strands, and it explains her affinity to the elements

[slim belfry]

unless she chooses not to mana weave while fighting?

[zenith coral]

or maybe the wand adds extra stats so she may aswell use it

[clear scaffold]

qira has created her entire army i believe?

[regal spire]

She’s got 5 major elemental gauntlets with elemental super beasts at the end

[clear scaffold]

i think gale's the only one who's not a creation

[slim belfry]

With threads of fundamentally opposing magic delicately woven together, these ornately-crafted greaves are given only to those who have bested the Mistress of the Hive

🤔

[regal spire]

Yeah, she’s got something in there

Qira’s gonna help

[zenith coral]

i hope she has a big role and not a minor cameo then

because it feels like this hive stuff has been built up to be something major

or maybe im a deluded fan

[slim belfry]

she'll likely play a major role but not a spotlight role

[drifting aurora]

you gotta stop calling yourself deluded

[zenith coral]

well i would say thats what i am given i really think theres a real chance the hive arc gets axed for no reason

no reason to think this so i would say its accurate

[prisma musk]

i feel like the repeated mentions of 'a void inside [the player]' as justification for why we're so strong is going to backfire some day

i've been honestly wondering what that 'quiet, mourning melody' mentioned in apotheosis ccould even be

[slim belfry]

me when I know it's the hero motif in some form but can't prove it

[prisma musk]

i do actually agree with that

our leitmotif is detlas because it was the place where tasim, aledar, and us grew

memory of distant days etc etc

[signal bough]

oh, is it just the detlas theme?

[slim belfry]

it seems to be a variation of detlas

the actual hero motif first showed up later during the eye fight though then added to other themes

which themes it shows up in is very interesting to say the least

[frozen turtle]

Qira is gonna appear right before we enter the Dern Portal and say "i'm hiving it" and then disappear

[gleaming apex]

Qira will be part of the 100% happening mecha fusion where the friends we made along the way combine their powers to form a giant mech to save the day

[dim plover]

She's going to enter the Dern Portal and then tell Bak'al at the other side "I don't think you understand. Earth isn't yours to conquer."

[slim belfry]

very very true

[full jackal]

or dead

[peak jacinth]

is the paragon major id worth it?

[slim belfry]

doesn't seem like it especially with the pieces it's on

[peak jacinth]

got it thanks!

[jovial ember]

Does our realm have a relam beast

[vestal rivet]

a plane not a realm I believe
so probably no

[split night]

is this confirmed anywhere

did Two say something about this

[vestal rivet]

guardian tree actually iirc

[split night]

it would be weird for us to be the exception

people usually refer to our world as physical realm

[vestal rivet]

physical plane no?

[formal bridge]

Not confirmed one way or the other really

It is characterized as unique compared to the light and dark realms

[vestal rivet]

idr it ever being called a realm

[formal bridge]

which is why they can use it as a battleground

But that doesn't mean there isn't some manifestation of it

[split night]

seperate term
3 Realm exist in the Plane of influence
we are a world that exist in the physical plane

[vestal rivet]

I assumed our world WAS the physical plane

[hybrid gazelle]

Just though of a new fun world building idea of villager using war in wynn as tourist spot and sight seeing

Like I imagine some company have airship trip to allow one to witness the sight of Wynn without danger

[split night]

plane implied it's building ground, while our world clearly is an enclosed sphere-ish thing
like
Plane of Influence exist 3 other Realm, 3 enclosed sphere

[vestal rivet]

that is the most billionaire activity I have ever heard of

[full jackal]

Tried rewriting reincarnation dialogue because it makes no fucking sense

Bob: Greetings, soldier. As you know, I am Bob, Hero of Wynn and Master of the Arts.
Bob: I… assume you have come here to challenge me in combat for my blessing.

I have.

Bob: Very well then. Let’s not waste any more time.

Insert the fight with Bob.

Bob: Very impressive. Your mastery in fighting is very hard to come across.
Bob: As I promised, you have my blessing.

Cutscene with Bob reciting a text in ancient Wynnic and the player gaining a sigil above their head.

Bob: However, considering your sheer strength, you deserve to know the truth about our world.
Bob: Our world is ruled by forces beyond our comprehension.

I know (if RoL IV is completed)
Bob:…
Bob: Well, that is rather unexpected.
Bob: Saves me time, I suppose.
Bob: In that case, do you have any other questions?

…

Bob: They do not care for our well-being, only endless destruction for petty wars
Bob: Their conflict has caused uncountable casualties.
Bob: There is a reason I had departed from this realm. I went out to challenge one of these forces, but I do not know what happened next.
Bob: Ah, I apologise. I seem to have rambled. I am sure you will learn more about this very, very soon.
Bob: Do you have any question before you depart?

Are you the real Bob?

Bob: No, I am not. I am merely a copy of his essence, placed here by him before he left Wynn.
Bob: I do not know what happened to him, unfortunately, as I do not share his memories after my creation.
Bob: I do not share his power, either. My power is merely a fraction of his true strength.

Tell me more about these “forces”

Bob: I sincerely apologise, but I cannot.
Bob: However, rest assured you will know the truth about them one way or another.

Why the animals?

Bob: Well, to be completely honest…
Bob: I did not have many close friends in my lifetime. Most people only cared for what I could do for them.
Bob: So I took much comfort in my animal companions. Before my departure, I left a fragment of my essence in each of them, hoping that someone with enough potential would find my challenge and collect them.
Bob: I know it is quite convoluted, but the challenge must be… well, challenging.

Do you like dirt?

Bob: …?
Bob: Dirt is… fine, I suppose.

None at all.

Bob: Go forth then, and continue my work. Save those who cannot save themselves.
Bob: You have my faith in you.

[vestal rivet]

(pop culture billionaire behavior)

[split night]

like
Physical Realm exist in the Physical plane just make much more sense
because this implies Physical plane is the groundwork while Physical Realm is the product

we could call it something else if it isn't a realm

but wouldn't a plane stretches infinitely and be more like floor than a cube in the demonstration

[full jackal]

True

I mean there has to be a Gavellian Aristocracy though

Cinfras seems like a really well-off region

Like do they even have problems other than the cosmic radiation stuff

[hybrid gazelle]

Would not physical realm just be location

Like Wynn and gavel

[split night]

demonstration

[hybrid gazelle]

Consider how in game we see each realm parallel

[split night]

yeah that could make sense

it's just a coordination of a 2d plane

one thing i felt certain is that the Physical Realm seem to held much more power compare to the influence realms

but its power is much more distributed to its inhabitants

like, us and bob for example

while the realms' powers are much more concentrated to a spark

[regal spire]

I love the idea of the mirror for the two beasts.

Two reflections punching at each other, trying to shatter the glass between them, and all it does is leave blood and shards across the floor

Then, by some divine cruelty, the blood and shards gains sentience, and can do nothing but watch the two reflections try and destroy themselves, all while they continue to hurt the mirror fr

Poor Ana. No matter how bad a creature, she didn’t deserve that kind of existence 😔

[signal bough]

it was dripping hatred that ultimately congealed

[drifting aurora]

yeap ^-^

[regal spire]

What about a mirror inspired you to make a concept like that? I love the idea of reflections gaining autonomy, but I’ve never seen the mirror be personified, beyond as a tool for a metaphor

[signal bough]

I presume it's because Two likes mirrors...

[regal spire]

It’s all symbolic, yeah, and Two uses her gimmick to depict it, but it’s still cool that you’d even conceive of the idea that the mirror is more than a tool for depicting self hatred, and could potentially reflect (lol) autonomy.

[signal bough]

I wonder if anything remains of what came before

[regal spire]

What do you mean

The realm of war?

[signal bough]

I thought there was a mention of a time of peace between the Light and the Dark, and what grew from that being the unshattered mirror

[regal spire]

I’m assuming the mirror is literally just that. It’s a reflection between two forces, and it, like the void, has nothing but what exists within it

The mirror shatters, and what forms from the shards is the realm of war

Just keeps growing and growing the more these two bozos hit each other

[signal bough]

but presumably it wasn't a mirror because Two just likes them

[regal spire]

Yeah, I don’t think it was a literal mirror

But, the concept is reflective, which is what mirrors are

They wish to look different, so they shatter their own reflection, and believe themselves separate

But, as we all know, a broken mirror doesnt suddenly create a different person being reflected in it

[signal bough]

I'm just thinking of the concept of light+dark interacting peacefully creating another, fourth force

[regal spire]

Twilight is so back

[signal bough]

if the mirror was twilight then it was easily overrun by war

cause we can find pure corruption in the SE, below the monument of light

[regal spire]

The mirror is just their reflection, though. The two concepts of light and dark, yin and yang, push and pull, blow and me, Y’know? Learning to love your reflection doesn’t change the mirror, it just leaves it there

Ana only came about from breaking the mirror, which is what corruption represents.

If they respected the fact that they are the two sides to every coin type shi, it’d very likely just do nothing

Twilight is, ironically, not the two forces coming together, but it might just be their mutual distance

[signal bough]

yeah probably

[regal spire]

I do wonder what would happen if they tried to combine

Probably something bad

[signal bough]

yeah

I think Twilight could probably be created artificially

[regal spire]

Then again, the very nature of a reflection is that you cannot touch it, so it may just straight up not be possible

[regal spire]

No comment on “blow and me”? This pmo sm

[signal bough]

I do not see it

[frozen turtle]

When is realm of mirrors released?

[signal bough]

but I do see three possible outcomes of Light+Dark

[regal spire]

After realm of the wiggles gets greenlit

[frozen turtle]

Two is realm beast of mirrors I’m pretty sure

[regal spire]

Which Wiggle would represent the Realm of Wiggles best

[signal bough]

Light and Dark hate one another=War
Light and Dark are neutral to one another = Twilight(don't interact in this state so doesn't form, possible to create artificially?)
Light and Dark love each other=???(Sugared did some work on this)

[frozen turtle]

War is a manifestion of their hatred/war against eachother, so hypothetically any strong emotion between them could create a realm

[regal spire]

Though the very nature of their existence depicts this to be impossible, Light and Dark love each other might = out of control chaotic influence

[regal spire]

It’s less the manifestation of their hatred and more the personification of their fight

[frozen turtle]

yeah

[signal bough]

doesn't that describe War

[frozen turtle]

true

[regal spire]

Their hatred manifests in the fight, ye, but its the fight itself that created it

[regal spire]

War is its own thing. I’d imagine it’d be both influences

[frozen turtle]

but like, if they just played games with eachother like bingo would that create a realm

[regal spire]

They’d basically meet and swirl into each other, and create the same concept

Because, they still wanna eat shit

[regal spire]

That’s the real twilight realm. Just straight hanging in the void

Passing brewski’s, playing jack box, slumber parties and shi

Gossiping, truth or dare, paint they nails 💅

[drifting aurora]

yk i'm not sure where that initial inspiration came from

it just kind of popped into being

it didnt really stem from two's mirror imagery interestingly enough

[hybrid gazelle]

Imagine if Two thinking really hard to fit any mirror related words or puns into the convo

[signal bough]

I don't think we know where the inquisitorial HQ is

boring answer is somewhere in Aelumia

exciting answer is that is is only accessible through mirrors

and inquisitors have a magic item to enter it

[drifting aurora]

i think i can trace the path that idea took to reach its final form

[mossy widget]

lexnt !!!!

[drifting aurora]

hello

[mossy widget]

hi

2

can u tell us her full government name

!!!

[drifting aurora]

nop

[mossy widget]

can i guess

[drifting aurora]

ok

[mossy widget]

dos

: )?

[signal bough]

it's two in ancient fruman

[drifting aurora]

she is the second

[brittle prism]

Secunda of course

[mossy widget]

rly ?

spoilers dude

[dim plover]

When we meet Bak’al in the future a player who has completed WTP at least once should have a dialogue option of calling him One, much to his confusion and annoyance

Like, we keep doing that instead of calling him Bak’al and he doesn’t know what the hell we’re talking about if this is some inside joke or smth

[mossy widget]

LMFAO

one

insta death

[dim plover]

And then if Two ever gets involved much later in the questline she will appear with Bak’al recognizing Anathema’s mark on her

And then he’ll look at Two, then look at the player and then look at Two again and go “…oh my god are you SERIOUS”

[mossy widget]

do yoh think bak’al knows two real name

[dim plover]

Does Bak’al even know she exists

[mossy widget]

idk

mahbe

[drifting aurora]

well I think

[mossy widget]

you think

[full jackal]

I mean are the orders of sovereigns

Based on when the position was created

Based on when the sovereign was appointed

Or how trustworthy the soverign is?

[regal spire]

Spontaneous inspiration is such a marvel. Who knows what our subconscious can really create

But, if you have any origins for the development, I’d love to hear it

[hybrid gazelle]

Her real name is Second Twice

[slim belfry]

she's also called Two because she wants to be the Player Two to our Player One

[hybrid gazelle]

wynncraft second player feature

[regal spire]

Two “The Following” “Latter Most” II

[split night]

two real name is Two Too

[full jackal]

All of you are wrong her real name is Malachy Ami

[signal bough]

Fuck did the Fruman Council have access to the immortality water

[full jackal]

Wdym the Fruma Council

You mean the sovereigns

(god it's hard to type sovereigns)

[regal spire]

Sov earns

[signal bough]

Pre Queen Fruman govt

[full jackal]

Uhhh... we don't know

[signal bough]

From ???-200 AP

[full jackal]

There is not much info about them

[regal spire]

As of now, we have zero clue what the civilization for Old Fruma was like. We’ve only got bits and pieces that imply stuff

Like, we know they had access to insane technology, and runic magic

But, geographically? Architecturally? Not a clue

[full jackal]

We get to see their old monument that's it

I mean we know they colonized Wynn though

[signal bough]

If the Council did then there’s a strong possibility they knew each other

[full jackal]

I mean Old Fruma probably did have access to it

Considering its in a very easy-to-access location

[regal spire]

We don’t know if the fountain was built upon a landmark that already existed, or was artificially made

[full jackal]

The reason why people don't still use it now is because it's heavily guarded by Wings

[full jackal]

I don't think you can build a fountain of immortality though

[regal spire]

We don’t know if there’s an underground wellspring pouring in from Wynn, or if it was funneled over to Fruma, or whatever

[signal bough]

We don’t know exactly how Wynn’s works but it seems different than the Lazarus pit

[regal spire]

We don’t really have any info on these fountains, ngl

[full jackal]

True

I mean though

[drifting aurora]

The Fountains . . .

[regal spire]

They just sorta existed

[full jackal]

Why doesn't HER MAJESTY use the wellspring on Timasca

citizens

SO that they can be eternal labourers

[regal spire]

It’s cause they’d burn out beyond productivity

[signal bough]

Well we know the Lazarus’ function

[full jackal]

Then let them

[regal spire]

Now you’ve got homeless bums everywhere

[full jackal]

It's not like they're not already doing that

[signal bough]

The water supply must be minute

[full jackal]

Then kill them when they burn out

[regal spire]

Ik we already have that, but at least they’ll die

[signal bough]

Work guarantees immortality

[regal spire]

Seems less efficient ngl

[full jackal]

Oh yea I didn't consider that the fountain might run out

[full jackal]

Wait wait wait

does the fountain prevent ALL death

Or just old age

[signal bough]

No

Just aging

[full jackal]

Oh right because we kill Zhi right

[regal spire]

Actually, hang on

[full jackal]

but then how can the fountain just revive people?

[signal bough]

Twice

[regal spire]

wtf does the Wynn fountain do? It stops aging, but it also heals

[signal bough]

It doesn’t

[full jackal]

Once

[signal bough]

Fine

[full jackal]

I mean we kill him once second time I think he's just exhausted

But like... why doesn't Her Majesty just use fountain on Gikyo to revive him

[signal bough]

Syndra once, player once, and he keels over on his own once

[full jackal]

Why can't we use fountain to revive elise

or syndra

[signal bough]

It must not resurrect

[full jackal]

But like the Lazarus pit though

[signal bough]

Which means each fountain works differently

[full jackal]

Like if the fountains are the same then...

[full jackal]

I mean I guess they could work differently

[regal spire]

Maybe the fountains have different effects based on their proximity to a portal fr fr

[signal bough]

Can’t wait for Troms Reborn

[signal bough]

Why is the Light portal doing that bro 😭

[regal spire]

Who knows! They’re old lore anyways

Idt they’ve been updated at all

[full jackal]

I honestly think

That lazarus pit should be removed

[drifting aurora]

theyre lore we are definitely looking to explore more

[regal spire]

Fountains have just remained a weird asf thing that’s never mentioned ever

[full jackal]

Cuz the implications of just being able to revive people is kinda insane

[drifting aurora]

(hence why we added one to fruma)

[regal spire]

Oh boy, Fruman time!

[full jackal]

Either that or there's some reason why it doesn't always work

[signal bough]

Frumazing!

[regal spire]

Man, Fruma make me feel all warm inside ngl

[drifting aurora]

the lazarus pit is interesting. it does not heal injuries

[regal spire]

Butterflies in yo belly, anyone?

[signal bough]

Yes, they come back wrong

[drifting aurora]

but it returns you to life

[regal spire]

Buhuhuh

[full jackal]

Or maybe just make it extremely hard to access

To the point where no one can get into it but the strongest

I think that might already be true though... uhh

[regal spire]

It’s cruel, ngl. And, it poses the question of wtf does it actually do? Does it inject an artificial soul based on the wiring of one’s brain? Does it reactivate muscle memory, with no soul needed? wtf is it’s deal

[drifting aurora]

it sure is something

[full jackal]

I mean the fountain of 長生不老 is certainly something that though powerful, isn't completely broken

But lazarus pit...

Reviving people from the dead, presumably forever????

Like the immortality thing is presumably for a long time

[signal bough]

You could still go pretty far with this

[full jackal]

Considering how old Two and Gikyo are

[drifting aurora]

lazarus pit not healing injuries makes it kind of. not a good thing to use

[regal spire]

It’s the scary version of immortality. The soulless kind, me thinks

[drifting aurora]

like that is not a good immortality

[hybrid gazelle]

is this imply that Lari just stitch up Dullahan back

[signal bough]

Ignoring how Dullahan was bitten, what if Lari just sowed his head back on?

[regal spire]

I’d assume, yeah

[full jackal]

I mean yea, imagine reviving someone who's been urbanspooked

that would not be fun

[hybrid gazelle]

you know

that would be really horrifying imaginery

[regal spire]

Maybe, if the wound is fresh enough, the muscle fibers sorta start to reconnect

[hybrid gazelle]

if they somehow show it in the game

[full jackal]

I mean could they kill themselves though

[regal spire]

But, if they’ve been dead for a while, and are losing a lot of their “spark”, the water doesn’t have much memory to work with, and just revives what’s there

[full jackal]

like their old injuries don't heal but would new injuries actually hurt them

[signal bough]

Also with the fountain of youth and megacorps such as GavelEx… can’t they put two and two together? The fountain that resurrects you but doesn’t heal you, and the fountain that heals you but doesn’t resurrect you?

[drifting aurora]

i would imagine so

[regal spire]

There’s some kind of muscle memory thing going on. Without a soul, it just sorta revives the trauma and nothing more

[drifting aurora]

do you think the water maintains its magic at a distance

[regal spire]

It doesn’t!

This is canonically proven to be something that the water does do, if taken too far from the source fr

[full jackal]

So like theoretically if you revive someone who is like 1 second away from dying again

You could revive them and they could die again instantly

[drifting aurora]

mix all 3 fountain waters and youd be unstoppable!!!! however, uh, unfeasible that may be

[full jackal]

from the air or something

[hybrid gazelle]

TBH my only gripe wtih lazarus pit water

[full jackal]

I mean the player could do it

[hybrid gazelle]

is that it make boring zombie

if only more "undead" turn out dullahan

[regal spire]

The water would lose its magic

[hybrid gazelle]

that would make it more intresting

[regal spire]

You’d just be combing normal water with magic water 😔

[hybrid gazelle]

cause rn is literlaly just normal concept of undead which is boring when you have corruption going on

[full jackal]

I mean that's interesting

You could have the 3 waters clash sorta

[hybrid gazelle]

I do hope that when they get to rework around Dark Forest idea, they lean lazarus pit "undead" toward like of Dullahan

[regal spire]

The waters would have to have their sources close enough together

[drifting aurora]

the prison area does something interesting i feel

[regal spire]

It seems very intentional, the way they operate. No one water can work with another

And, no water can realistically be farmed away from the source

[full jackal]

I mean maybe

[hybrid gazelle]

is it the one that they dump pile of prisoner dead body

[full jackal]

The water instantly evaporates the moment it leaves its source

area

[drifting aurora]

yea

[hybrid gazelle]

and they get reanimated by the water

[signal bough]

We don’t really know the extent of healing magic in wynncraft, but even without that I think the Lazarus pit could be useful- especially if you have worked out some things to take advantage of it

[hybrid gazelle]

honestly I keep forgetitng what that area is about

[regal spire]

It just sorta turns to normal water

[full jackal]

So like if water goes far enough from its river it becomes normal

[hybrid gazelle]

would not that imply the revived body are souless?

that what I been wondering

[full jackal]

yea

[drifting aurora]

useful, sure

[hybrid gazelle]

if the prisoners meant to have their soul extract for Dullahan

would not that mean the dead body that been revived are soulless husk

[drifting aurora]

doesnt the lazarus pit quest have like. a whole order dedicated to keeping it secret

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah

they do

[signal bough]

Oh I forgor

[hybrid gazelle]

but they are weird

[full jackal]

Wait really? Okay wait let me check

[regal spire]

Lazarus pit could be incredibly powerful, yeah. You could dismember a ton of traumatically offed corpses and build barrels of these things to confuse and distract

[hybrid gazelle]

they said that the water only do these zombie things to those peopel who has no pure heart

but one of the keeper has the title iof the murdurer

so I

I am not sure man

Lazarus pit quest just leave bad taste for Lazarus Pit for me

it just felt like a quest where the writers keep forgetting about what they writing with each step

[regal spire]

I did not know that the lore was “pure of heart remains intact”

[drifting aurora]

i dont remember that either

[regal spire]

I don’t like that. Ik it’s a joke on Lazarus being a saint and all that, but I hope this isn’t true

Jesus had many cool disciples yes

Seldom few recall Bartholomew’s Pit

[hybrid gazelle]

lioke

hat do they mean by this

[full jackal]

Oh yeah no I mean

Image Name Level Health AI Type Abilities Elemental Stats Drops Location
LazarusPitGuardian.png Lazarus Pit Guardian 75 12,300 Melee Heal
Charge
Dam

Def

Weak - Lazarus Pit
LazarusPitWarden.png Lazarus Pit Warden 77 20,500 Melee
Knockback Immune

Blindness Immune

Slowness Immune
Def - Lazarus Pit
DiminishedLazarusPitGuardian.png Diminished Lazarus Pit Guardian 73 8,325 Melee Heal
Charge
Dam

Def

Weak - Lazarus Pit
DiminishedLazarusPitWarden.png Diminished Lazarus Pit Warden 76 16,200 Melee
Knockback Immune

Blindness Immune

Slowness Immune
Def - Lazarus Pit
WeakenedLazarusPitGuardian.png Weakened Lazarus Pit Guardian 70 4,700 Melee Heal
Charge
Dam

Def

Weak - Lazarus Pit
WeakenedLazarusPitWarden.png Weakened Lazarus Pit Warden 74 10,200 Melee
Knockback Immune

Blindness Immune

Slowness Immune
Def - Lazarus Pit

There's these guys

[hybrid gazelle]

"those pure of heart"

[full jackal]

But they're absolute frauds

[signal bough]

Let’s say an important villager dies of… some treatable wound. It’s sown back up, some blood is re-inserted into the body, and then they are transported to the Lazarus pit

[full jackal]

And uhh there's the people in the graveyards

[hybrid gazelle]

"Uggord Pollywaggon the MURDEROUS"

[full jackal]

But their tasks are actually ridiculously simple

[regal spire]

It could seriously have been a coincidental thing. Those with less traumatic deaths leave less potentially traumatizing muscle memory to come back with, and can retain some level of function

[full jackal]

To the point where any random joe could do them

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah

[full jackal]

Except for the killer guy

[hybrid gazelle]

but they have the title

of THE MURDUROUS

[regal spire]

Maybe they were psychopathic fr

[hybrid gazelle]

That not pure of heart

[signal bough]

Or you could do some trolling and replace more and more of the body with magical prosthetics and use silk as skin and mummify what flesh remains so you are a living puppet

[regal spire]

Maybe it’s less “pure of heart” and more “dissociated enough fr”

[hybrid gazelle]

tbh I prefer if the order are elves

[full jackal]

» Talk to Poclo

Poclo Wabblebuff of Gelibord: So, is Mrs. Fluffles doing alright without me? Oh, I bet she was so affectionate, always such a softie!
[1] [She's fine]
Poclo Wabblebuff of Gelibord: Oh, thank you so much! I was so worried that after my death she wouldn't be okay... What a relief!
Poclo Wabblebuff of Gelibord: You have my blessing to enter the crypt! Make sure to check with the other graves as well though.
[2] [She's dead]
Poclo Wabblebuff of Gelibord: W-wait, Mrs. Fluffles... She was...d-dead? No... It can't be! I left her a lifetime supply of food!
Poclo Wabblebuff of Gelibord: You! You killed Mrs. Fluffles, it's the only explanation!! HOW COULD YOU DO SUCH A THING?!

[hybrid gazelle]

not only we desperate need more elves rep beside Light Forest

it just would be cool way to expand the elves lore with the fact that decay forest likely once part of Light Forest

so I feel like elves some have their mark here

[full jackal]

But like what do the hobbits do though

Like they live in the Shiar

[regal spire]

Elves being confined to such limiting concepts bums me out. They’re a species, too, and so are orcs and green bros

[full jackal]

One of them makes weapons

[hybrid gazelle]

also the water property is inconsistence

the cat revived just fine

unless you telling me that ALL THOSE PEOPLE

are not pure heart enough to not be mindless zombie

[regal spire]

wtf 😭

[hybrid gazelle]

like I said

the quest feel like the writers forgot about what they are writing

every 3 mins

[regal spire]

1.20 try not to be nonsensical challenge

[hybrid gazelle]

because they try to explain how the order are not mindless undead by the fact that they are pure heart

only to have fucking guy with title of the MUDEROUS

and also

I find it hard to believed

[cedar kernel]

It’s just funny tropes

[hybrid gazelle]

that none of these fucking TOWN people

NONE OF THEM

[regal spire]

References the province

[hybrid gazelle]

are pure heart enough to come out of the water normal

[drifting aurora]

hmm

[hybrid gazelle]

A town consist of villagers
The water only revive those of pure heart normally without the curse
None of the town epople ever revive normally

[cedar kernel]

We are void and listen to a person rambling about bread we’re fine

[hybrid gazelle]

what does Salted mean by this?

[full jackal]

It means the villagers are evil

No one is pure of heart

[cedar kernel]

Dulla’s revive

[full jackal]

your birth certificate is proof of it

[cedar kernel]

Or maybe the darkness ruins it

[signal bough]

But pure of heart could also mean pure evil…

[hybrid gazelle]

apperantly dullahan is not pure of heart eonugh to revive normally