📚lore_discussion

[digital swan]

https://tenor.com/view/moth-dab-me-up-my-man-dab-me-five-gif-14292088878183815053

moth form eternally better btw

moths in general better btw

[chilly tulip]

Isn’t the climax of Dwarves and Doguns The Breaking Point and TCC?

[digital swan]

surely that's like sequel stuff

and big garry is d&d climax

[earnest prairie]

bob fears them

[young dock]

Do you think bakal has spacial issues cause one of his eyes most likely don’t work

So like when he punches at you he misses cause he can’t see straight

Why didn’t lari just abuse his blind spot 🤔🤔🤔🤔

[sick quest]

D&D doesnt actually rly mention the colossus

[whole river]

I don’t think Bakal is limited by his vision much if at all

[hybrid gazelle]

Tbh

Dnd exist as its own story and the breaking point build from the foundation of I

[young dock]

Calling bakal blind on one side is funny

[hybrid gazelle]

So dnd as a story do get “satisfy” conclusion even if tbp not taken into account

[low ether]

Honestly even if he's got impaired vision on one side, he'd absolutely adapt to it

[young dock]

Dern beast gives bakal an eye, so kind ❤️❤️❤️❤️

[hybrid gazelle]

Yeah it likely he has that for like

800+ years

He probably get used to it

[whole river]

Given he’s beyond a human at this point he might not even need traditional vision

[hybrid gazelle]

His hater sense is tingling

[whole river]

Imagine he senses fear and the reason he loses to Bob and lari is cuz he couldn’t see them lol

[young dock]

W Lari

[hybrid gazelle]

You are wrong, he sense that they are named charactr

And immediately realize he cooked

[compact agate]

lari x bob

[whole river]

Lmfao

[whole river]

Not even lying if it was Bob instead of Dullahan guiding Lari they would’ve clipped the parasite in like the first encounter

[hybrid gazelle]

To this day I still have no idea why Dullahan is not chooses to be Orphion pulse

Cause okay

If we take the theory that Orphion is the one to tell the elder to taken down the tree

Then would not Lari being the one who attmept to against his plan?

In fact why is not elder Prometheus get chosen

[lavish knot]

Orphion threw a dart to a wall to names to decide

Honestly would have been cool if Orphion has multiple scions, so they deal differently to why Orphion going radio silent

[hybrid gazelle]

Yeah but as anathema mention

Both of beast is hard to feel attach

So they would feel barely any on e worth splitting their power for

[whole river]

Prometheus wasn’t chosen cuz he lowkey sucked at reading visions

Dullahan wasn’t chosen cuz he’s a dumb plot point that should get rewritten Orphion just wasn’t feeling him ig

[digital swan]

not like lari was any better

[whole river]

I think lari is better by default of not murdering a tree

[digital swan]

nah worse by default of not killing the important bad guy

[whole river]

Only reason the bad guy got out was cuz of Prometheus indirectly lmao

so he actually did do that

[digital swan]

but it could have been nixed within a year if lari didn't just let it go

[solid ibex]

Orphion: Oh wow you didnt slime that tree you are instantly my scion

[whole river]

I mean yeah it’s like a holy tree

Did they lift up the guy who killed Jesus

[solid ibex]

what was the dream

or vision he gave to those elves

they misinterpret that shit so bad ✌️

[whole river]

Which is why he was disqualified

I wonder what orphions original plan was for the next Scion candidate cuz technically the whole elf immortality thing was not planned by him

[hybrid gazelle]

This is under impression that Orphion did want to cut the tree

[candid solar]

What does the text on this tombstone say? i have the fruman transcriber but i still cant "read" it

[hybrid gazelle]

Because you have to translate yourself

Also the fruman script is pretty much same as the normal one

[candid solar]

ah okay ty

[vestal rivet]

the transcriber only really tells you how to pronounce the letters, doesn't actually help the translation itself much I think

[winged narwhal]

It was His will that the tree be cut

[tropic locust]

where do you get the transcriber from

[mossy badge]

Gale

[mossy badge]

Tombstone 🪦 🔥

https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1489836179665981621 pins for other text translations btw

[dawn otter]

Oops

[low ether]

Terrorist against toilets cos you keep BLOWING THEM UP IN THE PROCESS

[slender copper]

Just imagining the water bill for everything going sooo high that they became a terrorist by doing one thing.

[lavish knot]

"Why is the dam water getting lower these past few days?"

[slender copper]

Able to see the ruins which lie within the waters now.

Was just watching YouTube and the word "Anathema" appeared to describe a operator in Rainbow Siege... and he pronounced it "Auh-na-the-ma"... I pronounce it "Ana-thee-ma"... is the former pronunciation how it's actually supposed to sound!?

[jovial ember]

is there a use for this egg? or will it get a use when dern comes out

[slim belfry]

former yes

I think people use the latter here because it's a name

or that's her majesty's way to say it

[exotic bough]

No known use yet

[slender copper]

...Do we have any lore confirmation on the pronunciation?

[regal spire]

Maybe the Queen wants it

Wouldn’t it be funny if the use for this item was to either:
a) give it to orphion, and fuck him up again
Or
b) Give it to the Queen, and have Two of whoever study it

[drifting aurora]

the former is the pronunciation of the actual word

i like the latter for her name though

[digital swan]

So is there an official guide for like
Anniehilation vs Anniethema
is like Annie and Anna recommended by staff or like Annie and Ann or what

[drifting aurora]

what

[regal spire]

Idt their name is Annathema

Ana is a name

[digital swan]

Neither is Anniehilation

and Anna sounds better tbh

[regal spire]

Annie’s a short hand and a name

[drifting aurora]

it also isnt anniehilation

annie came from the community

[digital swan]

I think Annie and Anna

[regal spire]

Ana is the actual pronunciation, though

[digital swan]

but like it kinda sucks how close the best abbreviations are to each other

[drifting aurora]

you can just call her the queen if its that big of an issue

[digital swan]

then we should Annigh for Annie tho

[regal spire]

Annie is pronounced “Ann-knee”

That’s the name, and how it’s pronounced, based on its spelling

Anna is “An-nuh”

Instead of “A-Na” which is the pronunciation for anathema

[digital swan]

I have never heard annihilation pronounced with a knee instead of a nigh

[regal spire]

Annie is a shorthand of annihilation.

It just so happens to be a name

Ana is an actual name, though

Anna’s pronunciation is only a part of the fact that it’s just straight up longer than Ana

[digital swan]

I mean for shorthands do we really need to keep the pronunciation of the original word

[regal spire]

Also, it’s a direct shorthand of Anathema. Annie came about because autocorrect screws up anni

[digital swan]

Like Anna seems fine for Anathema

[regal spire]

Why would you write a different, longer name for a shorthand

[digital swan]

idk tbh

[regal spire]

Again, ana is a name, matches the pronunciation of the intended short-hand for the word, and is shorter

[digital swan]

I just like the name Anna

[dim plover]

It’s funny that I’ve noticed how I never call her by Her Majesty, which is like her actual referral in-game I think

[regal spire]

Call it Anna, idk why I’m bothering with explaining myself, or even caring 😭

[dim plover]

I keep just calling her Queen

[regal spire]

It doesn’t even matter, Anna is a name too lmao

[dim plover]

Not even “The Queen” literally just Queen like Deltarune

As if it’s her actual name or smth

[regal spire]

Queen’s fun to say

[digital swan]

like the group?

[regal spire]

Queenie was cute, too

[dim plover]

What group

[digital swan]

rock band

[regal spire]

Freddie Mars

[digital swan]

Freddie JUPITER.

[regal spire]

Freddie stupider

[digital swan]

(Freddie Mercury after 1,000 hamburgers

[dim plover]

Oh never heard of it

[digital swan]

wtf btw

[indigo wedge]

in taproot, why is killing the mayor the best decision from orphion's perspective?

[digital swan]

It really shouldn't be

[vapid path]

Combination of lesser of two evils, sacrifice one to save the many, and trolly problem (and other similar philosophical/ethical quandaries)

And remember this is from the pov of an eldritch god sooo

[indigo wedge]

interesting

[digital swan]

killing the mayor is both unethical as it's a) a murder, b) condemns numerous people to golemification, and c) prevents the villagers from getting wiped out

[indigo wedge]

yeah

[vapid path]

lol c

[indigo wedge]

given urelix is established to be an evil guy who stuffs ppl into machines

[digital swan]

c is the worst part

tbh

[vapid path]

Hahaha

[indigo wedge]

to a new player it feels as though the game is trying to tie orphion to urelix's operations

[vapid path]

I mean kinda right?

Urelix isn’t working for orphion

But the dog sees urelix’s work as convenient to his own eldritch cause

[clear scaffold]

orphion's also just kinda an ass

[indigo wedge]

well we now know that after ||completing wtp||

[clear scaffold]

probably sees it as "let's see how long it takes for him to work this out"

[vapid path]

I think it’s important to remember that despite what Orphion and saphnis (or whatever) “represent”, this isn’t black and white morality (or grey), they’re more

[clear scaffold]

Every single lari defender was defintely going I TOLD YOU

[vapid path]

Blue and orange lol

Or whatever the trope is called

[indigo wedge]

the strange thing is that youre only told this in ||overture to despair||

a good 40 levels after

[vapid path]

Yeah I mean it’s kiiiinda a retcon

[indigo wedge]

before fruma the general consensus was that light is good while dark is bad

[clear scaffold]

to be fair you were never going to hear it from anyone else.

A lot of the the issue is, everyone you meet has a reason to pick orphion

[vapid path]

But I think it makes for a good “fake out”

[clear scaffold]

it's less a retcon and more, the only person you meet in the damned war that's not on orphion's side. IS BAK'AL

[indigo wedge]

makes sense but its strange

[vapid path]

You meet the “light” god and the elves and all the pretty fairy magic, and oh no it’s being corrupted by the evil dank bugs

[clear scaffold]

fruma's the only time where it's just "oh here's the neutral point of view"

orphion also indirectly tells you to kill the queen framing it as if she's the reason the war continues

[vapid path]

And orphion is generally polite and even if he does make questionable decisions he’s just been dewormed from having evil lice so he gets a pass right?

[clear scaffold]

So take anything he says with a ocean of salt.

[vapid path]

And then you see SE and wwoooow the dark is baaad and ^^ bakal seems to be involved and wow dark=evil

[clear scaffold]

the best comparison i've seen is dern's physically destructive and orphion's mentally destructive

[vapid path]

So when fruma comes along, with the whole queen cunundrum (chaos god being a control freak, etc), you get what I think is a nice perspective shift

[clear scaffold]

Dernic beast would gladly cause destruction in his war, orphion just wants a cult

[vapid path]

Orphion wants sycophants who revolve in circles around him singing praise

[clear scaffold]

a control freak who's sick of her basically creators.

and for good reason.

[vapid path]

Yeah I mean I love how fruma tints the lore

Who would’ve thought after all this time, the god of the thing destroying your homeland, is also kinda the thing holding the world in balance (according to her, at least)

[clear scaffold]

When the queen was at least honest with me I was just like "guessed orphion was a bit more on the evil side but i didn't realise he was as bad as the other"

[vapid path]

^^

I mean idk to what degree that’s just queen bias but

[whole river]

he doesn't though. its kinda weird cuz orphion desires nothing except the balance which implicitly means the war to keep going forever

[clear scaffold]

orphion rubbed a LOT of people the wrong way tbf

[vapid path]

I REALLY like it when media doesn’t just go with “wow good is good and evil is evil” or “wow the good guys were bad but the evil guys were actual good”

[whole river]

and tbh orphion isnt as bad as saphanis thats fruma queen propaganda. he's bad for sure but its insane to compare the parasite's impact vs anything negative orphion has done to Gavel

[vapid path]

^^ yeah that’s fair

But how much of that is just means of power right?

[clear scaffold]

eh even the queen achknowledges that the dernic beast is bigger threat

[vapid path]

But yeah queen could be lying her ass off

[whole river]

queen does say saphanis is worse with their new power too

its kinda weird we need a region where orphion kinda ruined it

sorry cat

[clear scaffold]

i honestly think the queen is being truthful just resentful

[vapid path]

But yeah, with their new power; if bakal teamed up with orphion and sent light parasites into dern, what would the world look like?

[clear scaffold]

she's probably in that state of not caring just wants those two to finally stop being how they are

[whole river]

cuz as of now the worst area orphion affected is like, the fruma vision of that other world

light forest should be more hostile

[vapid path]

Would gavel just be a giant mistwoods style fae forest, with biblically accurate angels?

Would lutho monolith just be mushroom blasting the shit out of eyeball forest?

[clear scaffold]

lutho monolith is the biggest time i never trusted the light

[vapid path]

It is super sus

[clear scaffold]

point of no return really gave me vibes that orphion (or the light) was behind that one entirely

[whole river]

interesting viewpoint, i kinda saw it as the opposite

it was an oddly...empathetic gesture

[vapid path]

Oh for sure right? The monolith literally has propaganda on it lol

“Come here for freedom”

Don’t worry about entering the simulation

Leave the physical behind

[whole river]

the miners were doomed in lutho no matter what, so he, with his limited power, gave them an escape

[vapid path]

Perhaps

[whole river]

people say its an evil thing he did but mind you the first five seconds we enter the SE, we lost 3/4 of our team

and they were VETERANS

what are the miners doing 1 foot outside the town

[slender copper]

looks at nickname

[whole river]

hate orphion

[vapid path]

Yeah but I still don’t buy into the beasts operating on our level of morality lol

[whole river]

i just dont think thats a bad thing he did

[vapid path]

What’s looks like kindness or whatever to us is who knows what to them

Instinct maybe, or plotting

[whole river]

i mean in the quest they were fine with it right

its a choice

i havent done it in a minute so correct me if im wrong

[warm flicker]

i think it was both "hey i can help them out of their misery AND i can stick a thorn into saphanis's side with this monolith"

[vapid path]

Yeah it’s a choice, but what kind of choice is that?

Do we even know if orphion actively did that or it was just a reflex?

[whole river]

not like orphion could do much cuz SE is pure dern territory and also orphion is losing

[clear scaffold]

There's definitely some pressure in to stay phrased as your soul making the choice when I'll be honest i kinda doubt it

[whole river]

i mean the pressure is being in a literal hell realm

[vapid path]

Maybe orphion being on the winning side of the struggle is good, but orphion as the winner?

[whole river]

it aint orphions fault that happened

[clear scaffold]

I mean when it forces you back

[whole river]

oh i thought that was the player's soul being funky

[clear scaffold]

I always had this feeling it was less your soul doing that and more whatever the hell world you're in is doing

[regal spire]

It’s less of a “I gotta save them” and more of a “I must find ways to infiltrate Dark’s claim and convince more to mine”.

It’s also technically not saving, because the Obelisk just sorta rewrites everything about them, and forces them into a single location. Objectively a worse fate than just being handed off onto death.

[clear scaffold]

Cause your soul is still you. If you want to leave your soul isn't exactly gonna suddenly want the opposite

[whole river]

I mean escape as in the dream realm, they were not gonna get saved in the physical

[clear scaffold]

I'll be honest. Would they ever get saved even if lutho was freed?

Like they're essentially trapped for all eternity there now

[whole river]

depends if you could transfer their souls into new bodies

[clear scaffold]

Or until they get let go

[regal spire]

They’d be better off dead, since their souls would’ve basically been rewritten regardless of the claim. Both light and dark, from what I understood from this quest, change the soul to better fit the environment, and there will basically be nothing left of your original self, or even the soul’s reflection

You basically just become a part of the beast’s influence

[whole river]

you might think that, but they didnt

they didnt wanna just walk off and die

especially with all the crazy ass torture monsters around

[clear scaffold]

It's still cruel

[regal spire]

It’s more so the fact that either or doesn’t actually do anything to keep you safe. You’re, quite literally, better off dead in this universe, because your soul goes to death’s realm

[clear scaffold]

Essentially it's less im saving you because im nice and more saving you because you're useful

[whole river]

but thats the thing they arent useful

[regal spire]

What the beasts are doing basically trap and rewrite, so you wouldn’t even realize there’s anything bad going on, regardless, because you are literally gone

[clear scaffold]

Useful as a big "haha i still have influence"

[whole river]

I mean the dream realm feels better than the afterlife we've seen

which is death's weird mansion

[regal spire]

It “feels” better because it’s literally made to envelop you into their influence. If the same kind of concept came from darkness, you’d basically be supporting the same concept, with a drastically different development.

[whole river]

I just struggle to understand why orphion did it. cuz he could've just used those in gavel against the parasite

[regal spire]

There’s no “better” here, because there isn’t an objective perspective for “you” to compare it to

[vapid path]

^^

[whole river]

i would say the same if saphanis did it but saphanis sucks

[regal spire]

You’re gone, rn, and so is your reflection from your soul. What’s left is a world made to cater a new reflection of the soul, which is what Orphion is

It looks “good” because Orphion made it for him, and your soul is being made into him

[whole river]

hm thats now what I got from it

[regal spire]

Objectively, the only good scenario is an actual death, because that ensures the survival of your reflection

[hybrid gazelle]

We been to death realm but never a single fruman people there

What does this mean

[whole river]

I guess its a matter of how strong your attachment is to the others too

[regal spire]

It means Fruman’s are all collected into the massive “Frumobelisk”, where they live their days in sectioned classes/districts, catering to the demands of a totalitarian matriarchy

[hybrid gazelle]

All fruman are banned from death realm cause they are problematic media

That why Gale is a ghost

[regal spire]

Gale’s a ghost cause Qira is actually the 4th beast

[frozen turtle]

Death realm only had humans and villagers im pretty sure

is Death racist or?

[hybrid gazelle]

Death is racist theory

[regal spire]

Death just prioritizes those dudes first

And apparently a giant rat

And some cows

[whole river]

ok reading the dialogue at the end and I dont see what you mentioned

[regal spire]

The rest of the souls are scattered around the realm fr

[frozen turtle]

are elves, dwarves and dogun souls just lile.. not allowed into deaths realm?

[regal spire]

It’s because it’s buried under a not-so-subtle motif of “autonomy over escapism”, and doesn’t actively connect orphion properly (he was barely a concept back then)

[whole river]

I understand the escapism, I just dont think that has to do with orphion changing their mentality. the "bad" part from what they seem to imply is that they're husks in reality but escaped into a false world

[hybrid gazelle]

There is no alcohol in death realm

So dwarves don’t go ther

[regal spire]

The best we’ve got to support this concept is the fact that Orphion feigns divinity, the beasts are entirely selfish, and the obelisks we see in Ensemble of Hope specifically say “light above all” and work to entirely morph and force itself onto everything.

[hybrid gazelle]

Elves idfk

Avo idfk

Death just racist like that

[regal spire]

The nature of the soul being a reflection of one self also supports the idea that Orphion, an entirely selfish beast who wants to force its will onto all (through a strategically established divinity) is now the very reflection your soul is supposed to be attached to

[frozen turtle]

also i dont know/think that the monolith in lutho was put there only to just, put lutho citzens souls in a dream world. wasnt it meant be to like Orphions parasite counterpart

[whole river]

or, they were just worn down by being in perpetual siege

cuz the woman mentions it started as a few

then overtime since no one even seemingly knew they were there, they chose the VR-world instead of the real world

[regal spire]

Well, ofc, but more people living in perpetual darkness thought that this could be a better alternative. However, darkness wasn’t working to envelop the people’s souls, because it couldn’t, without letting go over your autonomy. That’s the whole nefarious nature behind feigned divinity, because Orphion actively finds opportunities to convince people into worshipping it, only to completely envelop them, and replace all they ever were with itself

[whole river]

but they don't even know about orphion

[boreal kettle]

They should delete the games lore entirely fr

[regal spire]

They don’t need to know about them, they just know that whatever happens to you takes your soul

And, because of the nature of the light, and its fight to claim everything into itself, what exactly would happen if you gave up your soul—the very reflection of your being—to a beast entirely composed of an ever-influential light

[whole river]

but their souls don't get altered from what i've read, they are just stuck in that fake world while their real bodies are husks

[regal spire]

Their souls are altered to not want to leave, or ever try to. They know of the option, but have been warped to never want more than the little plain they were given, all while they worship the obelisk as their savior

[whole river]

but they can leave they just don't have the will to

cuz what is greeting them is death

[regal spire]

And that’s because of orphion

They have no will to leave, regardless of the outside.

[whole river]

no i think thats wrong, its implied they dont want to because they're surrounded by what is known as hell

especially with her saying that more joined as they got weary from the siege

[regal spire]

And the lore we have now reflects the nature of Orphion’s influence, and the way he operates. We have the will to leave, because we are not separate from our souls. They had no choice, and it ruins them regardless

[whole river]

cuz iirc lutho gets continously attacked by Saphanis

[whole river]

i mean id argue we left cuz we have places to be

and the strength to do so

[regal spire]

There’s also a chance that Orphion has use for us

[whole river]

the player leaves because he CAN handle the outside world

the miners would leave for what? another siege, another day of staying within the borders, another day of misery

orphion didnt intend to save them, he intended to give them peace

[regal spire]

I mean, you can think that, but he’s clearly manipulative

It just doesn’t support what we know of Orphion, and the nature of his influence

[whole river]

i agree, i just think his impact in SE is so interesting cuz it is counter to his MO in gavel

and i find that interesting

[regal spire]

I don’t think it helps that 1.19 came before even the current iteration of Oregon

[whole river]

its perhaps the most active thing he's done since lari

[regal spire]

Lmao I’m keeping that

[whole river]

actually timeline wise it might've been before?

[regal spire]

But, yeah, 1.20 released with Orphion seeming to be way more “benevolent”, or at least “fair”

[regal spire]

It would have had to be after

[whole river]

but yeah my bigger issue with orphion is how he doesn't seem to care about the war's effects rather than brainwashing

dude ignored tf outta Wynn suffering for him and saphanis' scuffle

also conveniently never telling the wynnic recruit aka the MC about the reason he has to fight in the first place is so scummy

[frozen turtle]

Oregens light

[regal spire]

I think the nature of the elves worshipping Orphion is also implied to have been entirely a plan by him. He wanted out, and to spread his influence, and took a very strategic, manipulative approach to it. It’s why I believe that Better Lutho cannot be a place that an original soul could even function in

[whole river]

wdym

[frozen turtle]

I want like the monolith to end up either using the souls or husks to spread Orphions influence

[regal spire]

With all the talk of “reflections” and how your soul is reflected by your choices, needing to give it up to be in a world who’s influence isn’t just a place, but their mind, body, and entire being, it sounds impossible that anything that resembles the person that soul was before could remain

[whole river]

oh i mean about the elves

if anything orphion hates em

[frozen turtle]

Does he?

[whole river]

they chopped his favorite tree

[frozen turtle]

Elves are like his servants

[whole river]

then use its body for their immortality

[frozen turtle]

Giving him access to the realm he wanted to conquer

[regal spire]

His strategy is this “feign divinity” type of approach, where he depicts himself heavenly, and those who wish to join alongside him must worship him. The elder’s sought his wisdom, and he gave bits and pieces of it through his influence, which culminated in the idea that a catastrophic break in the seal that was the guardian could be enough for him to break out and claim gavel

[whole river]

if that was his plan he would've made prometheus a scion

[regal spire]

Unfortunately, Ana existed, and Saph got out, too

[frozen turtle]

What

[frozen turtle]

Why would he do that

[whole river]

he chooses lari, the one person who spoke out against the tree burning, which is what screwed everything over

[regal spire]

I seriously think that the guardian of the forest being chopped was entirely orchestrated by Orphion, and he believed that it would only open his portal

[whole river]

but why choose lari

i think you guys are giving him a bit too much credit lol

[frozen turtle]

Her character

[regal spire]

Vulnerable and submissive

[frozen turtle]

Or smrh

[whole river]

but how would that help his plan

[frozen turtle]

She was willing to go against the elves which I think is a good trait for a scion lowkey

[whole river]

prometheus would be just as submissive

[regal spire]

He can’t really do much, since Saph and Ana are concepts

[whole river]

and stronger

[regal spire]

He needs a scion to potentially coax more to his claim, and slowly take Gavel

[whole river]

ok but again lari is the complete opposite

[regal spire]

Lari is, canonically, insane. We didn’t get a good showing of it

[frozen turtle]

Orphion also sent the vision as a “warning”

[whole river]

she's def not insane if you mean mentally

[regal spire]

Lari just so happened to, also, be incredibly arrogant and stuck on ideologies personal to themselves

This was her actual downfall

And it’s why Orphion abandons her, and hides away

[frozen turtle]

Lari also didn’t have much of a chance to spread the light cuz of her pacifism against parasite

[jovial ember]

are gerts just normal villagers who were in prolonged contact with the magical meteors?

[whole river]

ok you've lost me completely cuz either orphion planned this and chose a girl who destroyed his plans

[jovial ember]

is space offical lore?

[whole river]

or he didn't and is pretty incompetent

[regal spire]

Orphion is canonically fucking stupid

[whole river]

i agree

i dont think he planned the tree burning

[regal spire]

Like, a major fucking moron. Holy shit how did he fumble this hard

[whole river]

it would make no sense

[frozen turtle]

It doesn’t take a genius to like just send a vision of breaking the tree

Tho

[regal spire]

It would, if he didn’t know the ripple would open the other portals

[whole river]

but if it made sense he wouldn't choose the pacifist

[frozen turtle]

He thought it would’ve just let him into the realm but chain reaction

[regal spire]

He’s specifically telling them to go to the guardian of the forest and kill it. They didn’t come to this conclusion on their own

[whole river]

cuz remember lari is only so adamantly pacifist because she thinks that is what orphion wants

[frozen turtle]

I’m assuming he chose her before the parasite was a thing

[whole river]

in the quest they say that was the wrong interpretation

[regal spire]

Maybe they just think that

[whole river]

she says that he chose her for the pacifism so thats just how it is

[regal spire]

Orphion’s clearly fucking incompetent, and wouldn’t explain himself

[whole river]

ok but how do you know they're wrong

[frozen turtle]

Orphions plans work in mysterious ways

[whole river]

orphion from what little we know of, does not do plans like this

[regal spire]

I’m actually more interested in discussing what they could have interpreted from Orphion

[whole river]

if anything he has been getting whooped almost everywhere

these schemes seem wayyy more saphanis than orphion

[frozen turtle]

I’d love to see Orphions revealed as like a next level planner and manipulator and he wasn’t just being stupid half the time

Prolly won’t happen but

And maybe his plans went to shit bc the other portals opened

Or smth

[whole river]

I saw orphion as more of an unforgiving father-type, but that's why what he did in SE is so weird to me

[regal spire]

Saph’s been depicted as destructive and blunt in their approach. They just go in and eat, like an animal. Orphion is implied to be the exact opposite of this, with divine, slow developments that deceive. Ana takes influence from both of them, actually

Once Saph discovered strategy, though, it was over

[whole river]

yeah but orphion doesn't deceive? again the vision from what the elders know, was wrongly interpreted

and there's no game evidence denying that

[regal spire]

And that’s what they believe, not what they know. They don’t even know what it means

[whole river]

its a case of the elves being very stupid

[regal spire]

They assumed it to mean it was destructive, because it was destructive, but why would Orphion want to be trapped

Like, Two explicitly states that these two fuckers wanted an out

[frozen turtle]

It was smart sending the vision like that cuz it gives him deniability of what happened afterwards so people would still worship him

[whole river]

but we have the same info as they do, not like orphion or even his haters has told us that he tricked them

[whole river]

but that can't go hand in hand with choosing lari

[regal spire]

It’s why I believe it, instead of know it ngl

[whole river]

cuz again prometheus would be the WAYYY better pawn

[regal spire]

It’s just implied, everything I’m saying is subject to better development. However, Fruma is clearly building Orphion to be malicious, like Saph

[frozen turtle]

He got a lobotomy

[regal spire]

Prometheus might’ve just died ngl

[whole river]

or, he didnt trick them

and the elves are dumb

[regal spire]

He got Ba’kal’d, except he wasn’t able to handle it

[frozen turtle]

It would make more sense to be a trick imo

[regal spire]

When did Prometheus die, actually

[whole river]

thats a bit simpler and boring but its the explanation that has more evidence anyway

[regal spire]

How long after the portals opened did he live

[formal bridge]

I personally think it's more interesting for orphion to be a more neutral figure than actively malicious

[regal spire]

That’s what Ana is

[formal bridge]

He doesn't care if thw world is destroyed, which is why he probably tricked the elves into cutting down the tree

[frozen turtle]

I think they have to inherently be malicious to the player as they’re trying to take over the world

[formal bridge]

But we never see that

At all

[regal spire]

I like the idea of two beasts who work to take control through entirely opposite ways. One takes through war and sieges, while the other takes through cultural influence and manipulation

[frozen turtle]

That’s due to a skill issue however

[whole river]

prometheus died after forming the council

[formal bridge]

I think Ana hates orph just because he opened the portal and ruined everything

[whole river]

which means lari WAS chosen over him

[formal bridge]

But he's never like

[regal spire]

How long did that take, though

[formal bridge]

Made a forest of eyeballs by steaking people's souls

[regal spire]

Like, a year?

[frozen turtle]

He liked Lari cause of her protest against it ig

[formal bridge]

That doesn't even advance the war at all, Saphanis is just messed up like that

[whole river]

they said he died of old age after forming it but I think it would take more than a year

[formal bridge]

Orphion doesn't gaf about mortals at all

He just wants dern gone

[regal spire]

I think that’s less Saph doing that and more the nature of their influence being chaotic

It kinda just does whatever

[frozen turtle]

He also created a religion about him

[formal bridge]

I mean then lets compare their influences

[frozen turtle]

So he could control the elves

[formal bridge]

The light forest is a bit chaotic at times

But it's not stealing souls and filled with evil ghosts

[regal spire]

Not yet

[formal bridge]

Tons of parasites and monsters

[regal spire]

I mean, look at what Two’s vision shows

[frozen turtle]

His influence was weakened

[regal spire]

That’s fucking scary, knowing everyone is trapped in those obelisks

[whole river]

so again, to recap. My reasoning here is if orphion planned the tree burning vision then they have to rewrite aldorei's secret entirely

[formal bridge]

It's clear to me that unless they radically change the light forest and RoL quest, Orphion is not as malicious as saph is

[whole river]

cuz the point of the quest is about sins of the father

[regal spire]

There are angels and lil deities all around that are basically a mass of souls warped into a single concept

[regal spire]

They are supposed to be doing that, but it’s hard fr

[whole river]

so if they backtrack and go "erm actually it was a trick by orphion" it kinda ruins that theme

[frozen turtle]

Dern winning was bsiscslly SE expanding

Light winning was not the light forest expanding, but monoliths

[formal bridge]

Yeah I just

I feel we're relying a lot on the word of people who really, really hate Orphion

[whole river]

I mean light dominated in gavel and there were no monoliths

so i disagree there

[formal bridge]

So obviously they're going to paint him as evil, he helped cause the war which ana hates

[frozen turtle]

That’s what two showed us

And also

Light was weakened

[whole river]

the parasite after 800 years didnt get a monolith thrown at him either

[regal spire]

It’s more the fact that Orphion is slowly being changed to better fit this idea

[formal bridge]

I still dont see it until we see those changes

[regal spire]

The light Forest ultimate alone does not depict somebody who isn’t malicious

[whole river]

and keep in mind most of the direct orphion hate is from a dictator which makes it fun

[drifting aurora]

i do think light forest should look more alien anyway

[frozen turtle]

Orphions ultimately trick is making the players think he’s good

[whole river]

def agreed

[regal spire]

Yeah, light forest being slightly yellower green forest ain’t my cuppa

[whole river]

I dont see orphion as manipulative and instead as someone who is unfeeling, which kinda supports why he left lari to do everything herself

[formal bridge]

Yeah agreed

Like

[whole river]

i find his apathy to be as dangerous as if he was manipulative

[formal bridge]

Two's vision of the obelisks is more what he would do if he could

[regal spire]

Manipulation doesn’t have to always be malicious. I’m speaking purely in the context of humanity surviving

[formal bridge]

Which is just take all the pieces away that dern wiuld try to infect

Which is stull bad, but it's not cause he enjoys it

He just doesn't care

[whole river]

two is also following a dictator whose realm has massacred way more than orphion too

[formal bridge]

Yeah two is also tryint to recruit us into doing what she wants

So can we really trust her either

I like the intentional vagueness of it

[drifting aurora]

feels an unfair comparison when said dictator has done whatever she can to distance herself from said realm

[regal spire]

They’re not evil, just like Saph isn’t evil. I should reiterate that, because the nature of their survival instinctually drives them to this fight. Ana, however, proves something interesting about the nature of beasts

[formal bridge]

I guess it depends on the definition of malicious

[drifting aurora]

filtered . . .

[regal spire]

It’s only malicious because it hurts our world

[whole river]

i meant to say i think her closing her country's borders is a jerk move

[regal spire]

I shouldn’t use that word in context of the beasts ngl. It’s deceiving

Manipulative and unfeeling is way better

[whole river]

if she cared, she could've stopped bakal herself

[drifting aurora]

hmmm

[whole river]

but shes too obsessed with destroying the other two to care about humanity

which is the kicker

[regal spire]

Ba’kal sneaky though

How can you catch him, he’s with Saph?

[whole river]

by the end you find out none of them care and you gotta take em out at once

physical plane supremacy

[drifting aurora]

she does put more value on the world as a whole than the individual person for sure

[regal spire]

Ana being lesser, and subsequently developing a sense of humanity is very interesting

[gleaming apex]

What if Orphion is actually planning to create the matrix

[regal spire]

It’s the fact that her very existence is so antithesis to life that I think was the justification for her perspective switch

[drifting aurora]

anathema my beloved

[regal spire]

She’s not really supposed to be alive, she’s just supposed to hate everything. But, she’s alive, and hates herself for it, until she realizes that trees can be green, and worms can be pink

[formal bridge]

I think it's cause for her

She sees the world as new and interesting and unique

Vs the other two, who see their realms as exactly what they like

[regal spire]

Two bad she read the wrong political ideology textbooks

[formal bridge]

So they want to remove their antithesis, which to them is the worst thing ever

[drifting aurora]

two ?!

[regal spire]

How’d that get there?

ARG reference??

[gleaming apex]

But seriously, hear me out here. We see tons of pillars just like the one in Lutho in the Light bad future. What if Orphion plans to trap everyone's souls in pillars as a sorta "for your own good" kinda deal

[whole river]

but yeah to me, the schemes and long term planning is more saphanis territory and we can see that with the parasite plan(cuz this plan was so dumb it only worked by sheer virtue of orphion choosing a pacifist), orphion for me is more of a cold and unfeeling deity who loses to saphanis precisely because he can't plan as well as she can, and then fruma is just a scorned entity who became a mini version of those she claimed to abhor

[drifting aurora]

Light Above All

[regal spire]

He’s feigning divinity. What better way to do that than with a fake heaven

[formal bridge]

I don't think he cares enough to do that honestly

[drifting aurora]

i do like the variety of pronouns people use for saphanis

[formal bridge]

He'd only do it if he felt it helped against saphanis

[whole river]

in my headcanon i think orphion enjoys the war, it gives him purpose. or at the least he doesn't care enough to end it

[gleaming apex]

Well i think it's possible the beasts actually have a use for souls

[regal spire]

Saph being a they feels very appropriate, ngl. This ever changing mass of dark shifting and shaping itself to better destroy the world around it, and take it into its claim.

[regal spire]

Is the black void depicted in the Light Forest Ultimate Discovery supposed to be Saph’s form? This big ole void?

[drifting aurora]

i dont know what you expect me to say in response to this

[regal spire]

I don’t know why I asked this

Better than “are you allowed to tell me” ig

[whole river]

they need to add them to gavel if so cuz otherwise why didn't orphion place them at the height of his power with the light forest stretching through all of west gavel

[drifting aurora]

Hmmm

[regal spire]

I’ll just assume it is, and that the claws coming out of a black void in SE’s ultimate are a confirmation of this

[whole river]

imagine gavel re-reborn just adds a bunch of monoliths in the light forest

[drifting aurora]

i will say

[whole river]

that would kinda help give orphion more of an actual agenda rather than "MAN I LOVE LOSING TO SAPHANIS"

[drifting aurora]

note that anathema says their connections are weakened

[whole river]

we need to find out how the connection stopped initially, iirc isn't it unknown why it happened the first time

[gleaming apex]

I think there's something about the world that they want that isn't just "territory". I'm basing this off of the whole thing with Anathema keeping the beasts back by threatening to scorch the world. If they only cared about expanding territory, why would they care about the threat? I think it means either scorching the earth makes it so they can't expand to it ever(I think this is doubtful), or there's something about a world full of life that they want more than just land.

[whole river]

if only the player remembered the time temple existed

[drifting aurora]

do you have a relevant artifact to use ?

[whole river]

orphion's fluff of hair we surely could've taken as a reward for saving him

[sick quest]

Wouldnt anything from RoL count for orphion

[whole river]

god that would highkey be a spoiler for the entire universe too

[drifting aurora]

the memory of that time you saved orphion

[regal spire]

Why, yes! There’s an ingredient bag full of em

[sick quest]

Oh my god yeah

[gleaming apex]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the ingredient bag isn't completely canon

[drifting aurora]

tbh i dont think you could just take a Chunk of Soil and put it in the temple of time

[sick quest]

We would get the memory of when someone last stepped on the dirt

[whole river]

temple of time lowkey needs more explanation on how it operates cuz it kinda is such a mcguffin otherwise

[regal spire]

A liter of oil takes you back to the Paleolithic Era

[sick quest]

I mean time valley doesnt rly have much going on in general

[regal spire]

Time valley having a giant ass gate that just can take you back in time to experience past events is both one of the coolest, and lamest things ever.

[whole river]

if they paid more attention to it the player would probably use it for every detective quest ever

[regal spire]

It’s just a glorified interactive history book

[whole river]

so I get it

temple of time is nerfed by being such a low level area too

conceptually it sounds like a late game area idk. that might be the ocarina of time fan in me

[regal spire]

Temple of Time would never have been a problem, if the dungeon quest that involved it didn’t exist

[whole river]

im just excited to bond with saphanis next

[regal spire]

Not gonna happen lol

We’ve done far too much

Bro is PISSED

[whole river]

we pet orphion, we uhh ig are carrying anathema's legacy, now its saphanis time

[whole river]

i mean anathema was too and gave us many chances

[regal spire]

Ana different, though

[whole river]

we gotta just beat up bakal first, we already got one eye down from saphanis

[regal spire]

We, ultimately, are taking up her goals. We’re just killing Saph, with no ulterior motive beyond “get rid of this asshole”, and I think Saph’s gonna go out with a pretty noticeable bang

[regal spire]

Ba’kal being the quest boss for Dern sounds fun

[whole river]

I kinda see bakal losing to us, disappearing, then coming back to absorb saphanis or something

[regal spire]

Just gotta solve some of the “fraudulent charges” Ba’kal been putting in

[whole river]

I see bakal as a chess piece that has far more mobility than these gods are noticing

[regal spire]

I thought of this, too, but I could totally see this as being a “last phase”

Ba’kal absorbs Saph, and then slowly dies rapidly with a final phase super attack

[whole river]

basically amadel if amadel was good

[regal spire]

If Amadel didn’t just dig around

Why does bro dig, he is not a mole

[drifting aurora]

ur a mole

[regal spire]

Unbelievably fucked up

[whole river]

if you go to mole meet up WE you can see amadel there as a 0.000001% enemy spawn

[drifting aurora]

the way i see it, temple of time needs an artifact of significance to work

[regal spire]

Afelis Locket interaction to see them fall in love fr

[drifting aurora]

like it probably could (and maybe should) be used more than it currently is, but it doesnt solve every single problem

[whole river]

yeah cuz iirc the items we've used for it was theoricks staff

which is a very significant item

theorick staff mythic when

[regal spire]

It’s more so a library. Basically used to keep records of great significance from ever being lost

[drifting aurora]

its kinda funny that you just. steal an artifact

[regal spire]

Unfortunately, it requires records of great significance to access it

Which have been mostly lost

[dim plover]

Imagine if Dern Beast was actually kinda really chill and friendly in person

[regal spire]

Canonically, we sweet talked the bank owners

[whole river]

didnt they beat up bakal for fun

[regal spire]

Right?

I wouldn’t steal

[whole river]

bakal is gonna treat saphanis' corpse worse than acnologia treated Irene

[drifting aurora]

huh? where'd you get this from

[regal spire]

Or Ariado to the talking mushroom

[whole river]

wasnt in one of the SE discoveries

[regal spire]

He’s got that big scar? Surely it’s from Saph hitting them in the head

[drifting aurora]

the only one theyre in together is the ultimate

and saphanis just gives the eye to bakal to put in EO

[whole river]

yeah nvm i just rewatched it no beating up

saphanis our generous boss

[regal spire]

Isn’t it so kind that Saph gifted our half blind Ba’kal a new eye

To better match his ugly fucking other eye

[whole river]

bakal failed? he got a new eye. lari failed? 1000 years of left on read

whose the bad guy again?

[regal spire]

Orphion unironically one-night-stood up Lari

“I made you breakfast”
“Oooo, I gotta go…”

[whole river]

now that i know the timeline its actually hysterical he helped some random ass miners and not lari

[drifting aurora]

did he help them?

[whole river]

from how it is written currently its intended as the "better way out" according to the miners but i was more meaning the fact that he randomly did that

but couldn't tell lari to kill

[regal spire]

Orphion: “Lari, Achara, I have booked you an Uber. We will continue to text on Instagram, before I inevitably block you and catch strays with another bloke whose name is definitely not player fr fr”

[drifting aurora]

i mean, simplest way to look at this is that lari's pacifism worked

for everything except that one threat

[regal spire]

Light forest IS still around because of her

She hasn’t done nothing, she just royally fucked up

Unfortunately, to Orphion, one wrong makes nothing right

[whole river]

I mean its a big wrong, but ultimately its on him to lead her to the right path

[regal spire]

The connection has weakened, ig

Maybe that’s why he couldn’t do anything

Except no, because how tf he get an obelisk into Lutho

[whole river]

but then how did he chuck the

you said it

[regal spire]

Orphion, explain yourself, preferably before 2.4

[whole river]

so yeah orphion just HATES gavel

[regal spire]

Orphion just wants to play Civ 6 and eat Fritos ngl

[slender copper]

I feel like we need more scenes of Lari's pacifism working when the player is around/cutscenes because they are only in secret discoveries.

[whole river]

tbf if i had to deal with villagers I would go saphanis mode

[regal spire]

Lari is, unfortunately, depicted as incapable through her entire storyline. There needed to be more of her doing anything good at all, because even the good she is shown doing isn’t enough imo

[whole river]

I wonder, since anathema is gone, if orphion or saphanis haven't gotten inspired by her transfiguration

[regal spire]

The potentially Psionic shaped knower named Ba’kal

[whole river]

what better way to force your will than entering the physical plane

[regal spire]

Saph is fucked if they do that. I’ve been practicing with architect Acrobat, and they’re not gonna out dps my support

[whole river]

saphanis enters the physical plane and gets nuked by "a little bit of consus for survival"

[manic kraken]

extreme tearing of fabric of space and time using riftwalker while siphoning TNA's life-force (or whatever power it has) to fuel urself

[regal spire]

“Ascendancy has yet to be nerfed, and I’ve taken a couple consus…”

Ana thinks they’re soooo tuff

[whole river]

I kinda forgot saphanis lowkey is abusing the void too

orphion wake up bro 😭

[drifting aurora]

i must resist the urge to respond to things

[regal spire]

Green Goblin mask

[regal spire]

You know, how would anyone know what you’re revealing isn’t just rage bait?

You could, theoretically, lie here nonstop, and people would have zero idea if any of it is potentially story relevant

https://tenor.com/view/green-goblin-mask-gif-17747048515581223060

[drifting aurora]

no. i mustnt

[regal spire]

“You make me SICK… HIDING… in the shadows…”

[formal bridge]

the gooseworx method of interacting with the community

[whole river]

blink twice if we're gonna see orphion drop monoliths down and go on the offensive for once

[regal spire]

The Tobias Togore Tathanial Thompson “Deltarune” Fox method

[regal spire]

Send any message into this chat at all if the end of the game leads to the start of Hypixel Skyblock

[hybrid gazelle]

Wait Lexnt

Habe you seen people using Rex to advertise their Minecraft server @drifting aurora

[whole river]

Rex being chosen is kinda beast mode

she's my favorite of the leaves

[hybrid gazelle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/262010576295821312/1507046505003880478/IMG_1699.gif

This one

[regal spire]

That is fucking hilarious

She’s not even doing anything cool, she’s just smiling softly

[formal bridge]

That's actually gikyo on a side job

[regal spire]

Gikyo would’ve been a WAY better choice

[whole river]

5+ million players wow

[gleaming apex]

Sui's real strongest attack, banishing you to be stuck in advertisements forever

[whole river]

how bad do you think their anni framerate is

[drifting aurora]

yea

[regal spire]

You think it isn’t just factions with the mmo plugin?

[whole river]

it def is but i just got a horrible flashback

[regal spire]

What if it’s just the next Zentrela type server

[whole river]

i used to hop on those factions servers a lot, there was this one that had a closed off map but one day a mod got mad and shattered the barrier and we all ran out

[regal spire]

What if it’s just straight up Wynn, but better? I mean, it has 5m+ active players!

[whole river]

it was like a map of a ruined city and as we escaped i made the mcdonalds my fortress

[gleaming apex]

Is that not an ad for Wynn?

Don't you remember our new Skyblock and prison server

[hybrid gazelle]

Are yoh proud of her following Tasim footsteps in the world of advertisement

[regal spire]

Technically, Wizard Foretress is still on the map

And the sky islands exists

[gleaming apex]

New server with the real sky pirate experience

[regal spire]

Real question, btw: can you dig under the void

[whole river]

do you think chud villagers yap about how they used to embark on glorious crusades and conquer entire regions for fun

[drifting aurora]

monarchists:

[whole river]

LMAOOO true

[regal spire]

Since the voids in the sky islands are technically just a big rift in the fabric of space, can you, theoretically, dig deep enough to dig under it

How deep does the fracture go

[gleaming apex]

Actually that's a good question

Big brain time

[regal spire]

Could you imagine being brutally maimed by a literal big-headed floppy-nosed goofball with connected hands

It’s like being killed by Bert and Ernie

[whole river]

i get why the sky raiders are still malding

how is your whole thing airships and you get invaded by airships

villagers have to be nerfed by laziness because if one wanted to they could solo the parasite

[regal spire]

Originally, they were nerfed by greediness

Now, they’re just humans with big noses and foreheads

Anyone remember the pre gavel lore of humans having gone extinct, and villagers moved into Wynn to repopulate

[whole river]

I would love more villager lore even though they're kinda a relic of mincraft

[formal bridge]

I would love more villager lore, as in for that new lore to be that villagers are an entirely different species so we no longer have them as a minecraft relic

[regal spire]

I want villagers to just be something else

I hate the fact that they’re still here

[formal bridge]

Creepers I'm fine with even if they're in the way of a pigman ravine rework

[regal spire]

It’s the one thing from Minecraft that just really shouldn’t have stayed with Gavel

[formal bridge]

But villagers are just too prominent to be a minecraft reference

and a reference to a part of minecraft which makes it very uncomfortable to have them be greedy conquerers who love money and business

[regal spire]

Also, the big noses

[whole river]

If they make more diverse models i think that would be a good compromise

cuz seeing garvin's lover just cracks me up

villager in a wig 😭

[vestal rivet]

all villagers are short white people with hispanic noses
if you bear with me, I will offend even more-

[formal bridge]

If they're going to go through the effort of more diverse models, just change them entirely to something else

the player model villagers look so damn goofy

[regal spire]

It’s so funny that these very alien, ridiculous faces just have normal human proportions and genders

[whole river]

that would require new lore

more models is just easier

[vestal rivet]

in all seriousness yes, they need a lot of touchups

thing #875 on the Gavel ReReborn to-do list

[whole river]

keep in mind we don't even have a set date for the tasim route which is dialogue only so i would rather they not rewrite villagers and spend 6 years on that

[vestal rivet]

if we do get Tasim stuff in Gavel, it won't be super consistent

[regal spire]

It’s such a hard change, though, because villagers make up basically everything. You gotta change every single model, just so they don’t look like MC mobs, and that comes with merchants.

[vestal rivet]

maybe he'll help with like RoL or something but he'll be out of our hair by the time we hit level 80 or so I bet

[whole river]

It could probably start gradually, aka only the important ones

[regal spire]

I’m so happy they’ve finally updated all the merchants, but they gotta update the key guardian, too, if they would want to change villagers

[whole river]

then spread from there

[vestal rivet]

this is mostly because it needs to have been a while since we last saw him when he shows back up in Queen's Recruit lol

[formal bridge]

I mean as you said yourself, they're already working on all the merchants

I don't think it as unfeasible of a change

[whole river]

like at minumum im sure yall can agree, the ragni king is so insane

[formal bridge]

But I also recognize that it'll take time and isn't the 100% necessary thing to do

[regal spire]

Considering the level curve, it’s definitely a long break

[whole river]

he should have a unique model hes like the first important person we know

[formal bridge]

And yeah, ragni king being a basic villager model is crazy 💀

[regal spire]

And, doing the quests you need to unlock him, I’d say it has been long enough

[whole river]

its borderline criminal lmao

[regal spire]

“First impression of Wynn: relic from 12 years ago”

[vestal rivet]

actually what would be funnier is if we keep finding references that he was nearby recently in quests, getting more and more recent until we do Hero of Gavel and found out he left again like the day before

[whole river]

i mean he can be more active in the light forest quests

thats like level 70

[regal spire]

Tasim encroaching on Siegfrieds territory sounds really funny

[hybrid gazelle]

changeling is probably should be the standard on new spieces being introduce to the lore

[whole river]

more than enough time

[hybrid gazelle]

changeling geniunely actually intresting spieces being put in the game

that actually play int the narrative and show the crown willingness to turn an entire spieces into their tool

[regal spire]

What, trolls aren’t interesting? Or Mermaids? Or Duneriders?

[vestal rivet]

a little more original too
they don't quite adhere to normal biology rules and stuff
may as well be aliens

[regal spire]

[vestal rivet]

the greenskins!

et al

[hybrid gazelle]

they literally are example that you can take the existing concept and spin them in intresting way that fit the narrative of the story

[regal spire]

Misspelt green and wrote Greek fr

[hybrid gazelle]

UNLIKE

OTHER SPIECES

IN GAVEL

[formal bridge]

you don't like the random hobbit village which only exists for a joke quest?

[vestal rivet]

Gavel is funny to me still

[hybrid gazelle]

I am sorry for not liking gerts despite them fucking like rabbit

I am sorry guys

[vestal rivet]

sentient species that are a dime a dozen and all vying for relevance lol

[hybrid gazelle]

I guess I am not a fan of spieces that entirely base their personality around eating and fucking

[vestal rivet]

life's most basic pleasures

[regal spire]

Is it actually cause they reproduce, or is it because more and more villagers kept turning

[hybrid gazelle]

they reproduce

it comfirm in the lore

they fuck

[regal spire]

Gert fucking 😭

[whole river]

doguns are kinda cool i kinda wish we had a quest in the village

[regal spire]

Oml

[vestal rivet]

I believe they are referenced to repopulate at rabbit-like intensity

[hybrid gazelle]

they literally talk about how they scout the gert camp

and conclude that the only thing that on gerts mind is eating and fucking

I AM NOT KIDDING

THIS IS IN THE SD

[whole river]

dwarves are interesting in how comically evil they are compare to the other species

[ashen salmon]

there's like 10 or so whole ass races that are relegated to be just like regular ass mobs

[regal spire]

I haven’t read it in a while. I just remembered that they’d always have more after fighting, and I assumed it was because people kept turning

[vestal rivet]

I mean are they wrong about this when it comes to 90% of the Gerts though

[hybrid gazelle]

I love how the entire civilization are so quick to change

[whole river]

dwarves would probably enslave the humans and villagers if they were more prominent

[hybrid gazelle]

despite literally turning torturing doguns into their annual festival

[whole river]

they're insane

[hybrid gazelle]

like wtf you mean it cant be that fast

[whole river]

like its just axelus and then a million homelanders

[hybrid gazelle]

okay but this is history book that written by non insane people

"They were lead by pure instinct. Food and reproduction are the only two things they care about. This could be used against them to tip the scales of the war."

THIS IS ACTUAL QUOTE

THAT ALL GERT THINK IS FOOD AND FUCK

[whole river]

used against them

are...are the villagers gonna bang the gerts

[regal spire]

“By decree of the king, everything we’ve ever known is wrong, and the creatures we’ve been celebrating and torturing as demons are now our allies, and will be living among us. And this is definitely not because these demons have tricked us and are controlling us, and the propaganda we made about them is definitely all wrong, and you should completely forget it. They’re good now!”

Like, what world would anyone see this and go “oh, okay!” And not “oh my god, the demons have won, they’re infiltrating our government”

[hybrid gazelle]

Elves having their entire personality hinge around being elves

[vestal rivet]

my immediate though is to study what gerts find attractive and just make dummies holding platters of food to lure them into stupid traps
you could call them... thirst traps

[hybrid gazelle]

like there nothing

remotely unique about them

actually no

there is ONE more thing

WEED JOKE

WEED

THEY SMOKE WEEDS GUYS

[regal spire]

They have big ears

[hybrid gazelle]

THEY GET HIGH AND SMOKE WEED

[vestal rivet]

knife-ears!

[regal spire]

They’re the opposite of villagers, who have big noses

[hybrid gazelle]

IS IT NOT FUNNY GUYS

WEED GUYS

WEED

[vestal rivet]

leaf lovers!

[hybrid gazelle]

I LOVE SMOKING WEED GUYS OMG

[regal spire]

Oregon

[vestal rivet]

it was 10 years ago

[hybrid gazelle]

this is true

[drifting aurora]

i think we may be able to do this already actually

[hybrid gazelle]

but too bad this is all their personality beside being elves

[drifting aurora]

...or maybe not. they might not have been included

[regal spire]

Oh, actually? I thought they worked differently

[vestal rivet]

the curse of all tolkien elves apart from the actual original tolkien elves

[slim belfry]

wait what are key guardians

[whole river]

elves tbf are far more forgiveable they have other stuff besides weed

[hybrid gazelle]

nah I woulds ay dwarves fall into this trap harder than the elves

[regal spire]

Why can’t elves just work in a toy store and follow a jolly, red Norwegian man

[hybrid gazelle]

many people can interept elves differently

and it gonna feel right

while dwarves just

[vestal rivet]

this too

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah you can change thing about dwarves

but it does not hit the same

[vestal rivet]

never said the dwarves didn't lol

[brittle prism]

they do

[whole river]

but dwarves its like "what if you made the most evil people into one race"

[brittle prism]

santa has elves in wynncraft

the thing is are they related to gavellian elves?

[regal spire]

Santa has conflicting lore relevance in Wynncraft

[hybrid gazelle]

"but what if we make them fake demon and complete 180 at the end of the story?"

this is accurate because dwarves are short people

[slim belfry]

santa is not allowed in fruma

[regal spire]

It’s not his district

[brittle prism]

its because he's cursed

[whole river]

post fruma! player wouldve decapitated the dwarf king day 1 ngl

[vestal rivet]

dwarves: bankers, merchants, miners, geologists, soldiers, kings, and like no other professions for the entire race

[brittle prism]

and the other council members like nick

they have water magic

[regal spire]

Lmao if santa is a cursed

[whole river]

I enjoy that the player is slowly getting influenced by his peers and becoming more of a "hero"

[brittle prism]

i mean he summons a light snow!

[regal spire]

He’s one of 2 canonical manaweavers

[brittle prism]

without a weapon

soo

[vestal rivet]

either santa gets decanonized or he gets a rewrite to be another cursed that escaped fruma lol

[regal spire]

Who ho ho knows?

[vestal rivet]

and it's just Nicolas or something who happens to play a very similar role but totally isn't santa

[hybrid gazelle]

the idea of CT needing to explain why santa not a thing in Fruma is really funny

[vestal rivet]

Odin, maybe

[regal spire]

The 5th realm beast

[brittle prism]

is santa in gavel?

[hybrid gazelle]

guys wtf santa doing during the early day of corruption war

[whole river]

santa is strong but anathema hating poor people is stronger

[hybrid gazelle]

well probably

IDK

[brittle prism]

Santa is actually the realm beast we're just the scion

[regal spire]

Realm of Light, Dark, War, ig the void, and Jolly

Santa’s realm would go so hard fr fr

[hybrid gazelle]

doguns and avos are mostly fine I guess
could be better

[brittle prism]

realm of craftsmas, controls all mountaintops, embodies peace

[vestal rivet]

that one christmas holiday quest sticks out even among the other early game quests
like yayyyy we made it snow in the homeless encampment where none of the homeless have winter clothing at the end of the quest they'll be SO thankful

[regal spire]

And some minigames

[brittle prism]

the reason there's invisible walls above mountaintops is because if we went up there we'd immediately be turned into a elf for santa's factory

[regal spire]

I’m hungry, and my clothes are soaked, and also dry snow dehydrates

[vestal rivet]

we gave them hypothermia
it's a christmas miracle

[brittle prism]

like corrupteds

[ashen salmon]

we did feed them

[brittle prism]

Santa did*

[regal spire]

But for how long

[vestal rivet]

true ig

[brittle prism]

We fed them

[ashen salmon]

that is something that happened in a meaningful holiday

[vestal rivet]

we made all the rich people who were actually rich enough to donate mad in the process

[brittle prism]

santa just showed up and gave homeless desert people freezing temperatures

[vestal rivet]

that'll go over well

[regal spire]

We fed them once, though. How long until the snow lets up, and they freeze to death hungry again

We didn’t even get them blankets and clothes

[brittle prism]

better than nothing /

[regal spire]

Also, who fuck wit the homeless cave

[vestal rivet]

we gave 1 woman a blanket, they can share

[regal spire]

The communal blanket fr

[vestal rivet]

"They all were provided with what a person could ever need. To share."

[regal spire]

Meanwhile, Detlas is still operating—somehow—a thriving ballroom

[brittle prism]

Santa's good intentions yet bad execution shows that he's actually a realm beast

More akin to anathema

[regal spire]

Give them a buncha dirty leftovers, and not even offer the table clothes to cover them with

[vestal rivet]

opposite way around for Orphion, can't be right

[brittle prism]

I mean war = fire, therefore opposite of war must be ice

[formal bridge]

I think it also doesn't hit as hard cause Almuj doesn't even seem to have much government at all

[regal spire]

Check the ocean for a portal

[vestal rivet]

Theorick's logic!

[formal bridge]

They just have guards and I think a mayor in AHC

[regal spire]

He was right!

[formal bridge]

So there's no real force keeping people homeless, they just... exist there, poor for the sake of the storyline

[brittle prism]

nah the OGs have bad intentions good execution

Orphion wanted people to be dumb i guess

[regal spire]

The force is that they don’t have homes

So, they’re homeless

[vestal rivet]

Anathema is glad that the Highlands glaciers aren't very prominent I think lol

[regal spire]

They have no food cause they gave it all to fucking Detlas wtf is this quest 😭

[formal bridge]

Yeah but we don't even really get a sense of like... economic pressures or whatever

They just are homeless because we need some people to feed

They don't feel like real people

[regal spire]

It’s cause there aren’t any. The only pressure is the fact that Detlas ordered everyone to give us your food right fucking now

[brittle prism]

the twins

[ashen salmon]

HOMELESS PEOPLE ARE JUST PROPS CONFIRMED

MR BREAST

[regal spire]

Now, the “fed tums for bums” initiative has no food to pull from

[slim belfry]

realm beasts are such frauds if I was one I'd try and infiltrate everyone's minds without them knowing I exist while I feed on them

[vestal rivet]

https://tenor.com/view/feed-the-void-black-cat-snack-hungry-cat-hungry-gif-306965068353833327

[regal spire]

If I were a realm beast, I’d probably just stay at home

[slim belfry]

but then you'll get parasite'd

[ashen salmon]

if i were a realm beast i'd start meaningless flame wars on social media

[regal spire]

Nuh uh, I’m comfy at home

Locked the door and everything

[slim belfry]

the realm of twitter

[vestal rivet]

Perforator Hive: the Social Media Platform

[regal spire]

What if Ana was sleepy, would she be the Beast of Snore?

[vestal rivet]

nah realm beast of cold wars

[ashen salmon]

ana wishes she had a scion like mw

who the fuck is two

who the fuck is bak'al

[regal spire]

What if she hurt her hip, would she be the beast of sore?

[slim belfry]

her ex

[brittle prism]

you are the scion of santa

[regal spire]

What if she put on an outfit? Would she be the Beast of Wore?

[vestal rivet]

some lady who was lucky enough to be alive when Her Majesty dove facefirst into fruman dirt

[brittle prism]

he's the first realm beast you serve

[vestal rivet]

what if she started going out into the night on business? wouold she be the Beast of-

[brittle prism]

toddlers

[vestal rivet]

hm, a moth attacked me and cut me off

[regal spire]

Beast of Nightguard, yes

[vestal rivet]

yes yes ofc

maybe she picks up the new game in early access made by Ghost Ship Games that was only made publically available on Steam today
Beast of Core

but Rogue

https://tenor.com/view/time-for-rock-and-stone-rock-and-stone-deep-rock-galactic-dwarven-mining-stole-the-wife-and-kids-gif-4069740831590852865

[regal spire]

What if she was Freddy Fazbear? Would she be the Beast of Or or or or or?

[vestal rivet]

became old, Beast of Har Har Har?

[brittle prism]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1235420078938521671/1429393511270191154/attachment.gif

[regal spire]

Thank god she didn’t get a black shard

[vestal rivet]

is obsidian still vaguely tied to the corruption? oh no

[dim plover]

Just realized that this place got zero relevance whatsoever

[drifting aurora]

Curious

[vestal rivet]

yeah with the lvl120 enemies out front I thought we'd be going back here at some point for a quest
but nay

[dim plover]

(This is the site for the real Realm of War portal Anathema created)

The one above the citadel was a fake diversion

[hybrid gazelle]

it did get mention in a quest

[hybrid gazelle]

the guards are crazy

[regal spire]

I love that stupid fountain

[dawn moon]

on EVERYONES soul we're reviving the entirety of the wastelands with the bathhouse water

[regal spire]

It’s, like, one of the only enemy gauntlets in-game that isn’t a dungeon, WE, LR, ToA esc challenge, raid, or war

[slim belfry]

we will get a quest called "Work of Eternity" Level 120 and the task is clean up the bathhouse and get awarded 16LE

after the quest if you go to a random person's house in the jungle you'll find a journal about how the three water pools are connected

[dawn moon]

its all connected to the sewer system of eternal life

cleaning up the bathhouse as the final challenge after apotheosis 😭

[regal spire]

The real epilogue: Scarred Springs 2

[dim plover]

I just realized that the nameplates overlap if I try to do this

Also I can’t do choice boxes because that also overlaps with the rightside portrait

Ok well the choice boxes I can just artificially raise the height in the resource pack but nameplate text needs to be centered

[compact agate]

So aledar is gay for tasim

At least according to the new changed

Is there a way to read the old quest

[warm adder]

Damn u made the new wynn dialogue

boxe

[slim belfry]

a lot more than just that...

[split night]

hey guys like when are we getting gameoverse wynn crossover

[dim plover]

That’s

In-game

[hybrid gazelle]

Depend on how they do mmorpg game lol

[dim plover]

That’s Fruma quest dialogue

[hybrid gazelle]

Befause mmorpg only die when the server itself is not being support

[warm adder]

Uh

[hybrid gazelle]

There is no end in mmorpg

[dim plover]

The one at the top is from Ensemble of Hope and the one at the bottom is from Burning Bonds

[warm adder]

oh

[slim belfry]

wynn does have story so the current theoretical ending would be wartorn palace completion

[summer bluff]

I didn't realize that this was you and i thought that someone stole your dialog boxes for whatever reason 😔

[hybrid gazelle]

Yeah but gameoverse entire concept is thst the world get destroy if the game is finish

Which would be easy to say for a one time experience linear game

But more modern game are more complicated with post game content and other stuff

[dim plover]

Voice Jschlacttor

[hybrid gazelle]

So what indicate the game as “end”?

[summer bluff]

😔 it's like watching you wear a face skin mask

[slim belfry]

I have no clue I just watched the video

https://youtu.be/lSpZgKBjwmg

[hybrid gazelle]

Like theoretically, mmorpg will go for evee

Online service game will go forever

But unless gameoverse is simply just a setting where each planet work like video game

That different story

[dim plover]

Voice Jschlacttor
https://youtube.com/shorts/uW_0ZwSiEkc?si=wNkMI3t_VhPEvtcN

[slender eagle]

been wondering what farcade would do about a live service game and then started imagining kit trying to advertise silverbull

[split night]

to what end?

im curious how they would do undertale and slay the princess

[dim plover]

Once we get the weapon The End

[split night]

these two have element within the game related to foreverness and ongoing

you can't really win them

[winged narwhal]

Is that guy recording in a different quality mic