📚lore_discussion

[zenith coral]

https://giphy.com/gifs/meme-tuff-skibidi-toilet-6HSQPi9woBdjFA1Aob

[mossy widget]

i may use that rn

[hybrid gazelle]

oh nvm

it's that guy

[limber swan]

is that distant horizons

[mossy widget]

ok hi trashie

[zenith coral]

people really hate me eh

[limber swan]

cause the terrain looks weird af

[hybrid gazelle]

hello meefy

[formal bridge]

Yeah

[zenith coral]

i suppose thats fair

[formal bridge]

I use it cause I like to see how big the map is even if it can get a bit janky at times

[signal bough]

I don't think the kadon-beda people are that close

[shadow finch]

what is this image and where did it come from?

[formal bridge]

Personally I'm most excited for the RoL update anyway, to get back on topic a bit

[hybrid gazelle]

that one tiwtter post

[zenith coral]

it came from a leak of salteds homework

[formal bridge]

SE could use a bit of revamping but it's in a generally better place than 52 message long tree lore dump

and particle effect powers

[hybrid gazelle]

@mossy widget also but yeah I happy that they change that dialogue

[mossy widget]

fair point BUT for those two kandon beda people i raise you mel lanu and linton

[hybrid gazelle]

cause old AJF dilaogue it just

Aledar is too much of an assholeto feel stupidly and out of character ignorant

also taking the timeline in mind

where verything happen under a year

yeah it just

[mossy widget]

playerre i. want to kill youuu :))))

[hybrid gazelle]

literally Aledar must have his eyes fucking close

[signal bough]

I feel like the lower level someone is the harder it is cause it was canonically less recent

[hybrid gazelle]

this entire time

[formal bridge]

yeah it's the same old wynn mean spirited writing that was a lot more common a few years back but began getting dialed back more and more esp once fruma hit

[hybrid gazelle]

cause no way you are this ignorant and unaware of yourself

that you would call someone with no friend

even tho we are from the same caravan

we been doing A LOTTTT of shits that probably become big news on the paper

while we never heard of anything he does

[mossy widget]

also in that old writing he hasnt even seen us since the tutorial. how would he know if we had no friends like LSJDKSNDKSJF

[signal bough]

I remember reading that and thinking that aledar doesnt know about corkus

[zenith coral]

well maybe it was just me but it felt like old aledar and tasim ignored us and just stuck to eachother

but what do i know

[formal bridge]

Yeah even in current wynn we see him once after spider dungeon during the mercenary

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah

old AJF Aledar is like

talk big shit and 0 shit to back it up

[solid ibex]

excited for that gavel rework v2 because gavel reborn was not enough

lmfao

[mossy widget]

i understand the like of aledar being a betrayer but like can we at least acknowledge that it was dumb lore wise and writing wise

[formal bridge]

There's goign to be like 2 or 3 gavel reworks probably lmao

[hybrid gazelle]

I think Gavel just need grandual remake

[signal bough]

Selchar's in an iron lung rn

[hybrid gazelle]

when they updating gavel

[zenith coral]

ig. if we would do smth liek this foreshadowing to smth like this wuold be important

[hybrid gazelle]

I hope 1 regions of gavel get update each major update

[zenith coral]

this is why we need a main storyline

[formal bridge]

selchar is the ocean capitol we aint seeing any updates there for years and years lmao

[hybrid gazelle]

I think that probably the best thing for Gavel

I think in the future each major update should update 1 older region

[zenith coral]

well they removed the time travel craftmas quest

[hybrid gazelle]

so for example next major update should update Nemract swamp LOL

[signal bough]

and the sand quest

they added the lore in that to seaskipper so selchar isnt utterly barren of politics

[mossy widget]

selchar is like the only vibey place rn

peaceful

[solid ibex]

prob the safest place in the map

[signal bough]

yeah I can see that, it was founded by wynners and has gotta be completely safe

[zenith coral]

ocean update will contradict this

[signal bough]

except for the cow insurgency

[sharp mango]

clearly there will be a selchar overhaul and it will be a prosperous trading town

[hybrid gazelle]

but that mostly because it never been update before with the new lore

because realistically

[zenith coral]

and the remnants of the first realm war under the ocean

[hybrid gazelle]

it would be fucked over by priates LOL

no fucking way pirates just let Selchar exist on its own

[zenith coral]

selchar just has that much rizz

[mossy widget]

maybe they just like selchar

u_u

[hybrid gazelle]

TBH

I really like the idea of Selchar attempting to establish order to the ocean

with pirates running around

maybe if they actually update ice islander to be ACTUAL viking

maybe

there so much potential the idea of Selchar trying to get ocean under control

and it being this another collab between villagers and humans

[signal bough]

I feel like the whole ocean could easily be corkian

[formal bridge]

Honestly the ocean at this point is just far too open really to even begin speculating on what a good change would be

[hybrid gazelle]

that true

[formal bridge]

It's the epitomy of a blank slate

[hybrid gazelle]

I just think this intreptation of the ocean is a cool main theme

because it utilize pirates which should be the main thing about ocean

it's the new frontier of exploration

it been open relatively recent

[sharp mango]

why not expand the ocean more and we get one piece

[hybrid gazelle]

for 100 years

[hybrid gazelle]

tbh my idea is basically

turning ocean into one piece type shit

[formal bridge]

Expand the ocean but add no more lore to it, it's just more random islands with one cave on it each

maybe a side quest that makes no sense in modern lore there too if we want another dead island

[hybrid gazelle]

I rather if Dead Island just

one of those island that you stumple upon

rather than have quest about it

Dead Island just really boring now aday because it just feel nothing

nothing as in there nothing unqiue or stand out

[signal bough]

I guess the time travel is cool

[formal bridge]

It's mostly just a nonsensical bad MMO quest that most of wynn used to be but has slowly been phased out

[hybrid gazelle]

I rather if Dead Island is actually dead

as in there nothing in there

it just creepy little place that you accidentally come across

[formal bridge]

Zero connection to anything else, one single NPC of importance in the questline, fetch quests back and forth

[hybrid gazelle]

walk around for bit and feel eerly

and just leave

[formal bridge]

Thsi also describes the entirety of wynnex

[signal bough]

you could tie it directly into the Decay

[hybrid gazelle]

Dead Island in my take would have 0 mobs and just overgrown island with no soundtrack dedicated to it

just sound of wind and literaly it

nah

I dont think dead island should tie into decay

it should tie to nothing

it just an island that have no explaination

there is no life

beside trees

[formal bridge]

If we tie it into the decay that raises more questions of how it got there and how useless Lari's barrier seems to be lmao

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah

[formal bridge]

It got all the way into the ocean apparently lmao

[hybrid gazelle]

and also it just feel forcec

it just feel forced that all

I dont htink we should try to force connection

[tired fulcrum]

The lore is that our map that we have now is just land on top of giant mountain plateau, and down this mountain is the dark continent, we'll have end game type of content where you can descend into these lands yk

[formal bridge]

My personal vote for a future ocean questline would be making skien the main focus

Instead of just having it be connected to a random boss altar in the jungle

[signal bough]

Skien has the potential to be a really significant character

[hybrid gazelle]

I have my writing for Skien wait

[formal bridge]

Skien could fit well into the so far strongest theme of authority that wynn has going for it

[hybrid gazelle]

my issue with Skien is that

[signal bough]

as the main voice arguing against what would bring the modern day leviathan of gavel and wynn

[hybrid gazelle]

how do you make him a villain when he meant to stuck in theisland LOL

I feel like redbeard work better as the main villain

not onyl he is more about the ocean due to him being pirate

[formal bridge]

I think either works I just like Skien better as potential

[hybrid gazelle]

Skien just meant to stuck in that one island

[formal bridge]

Regardles of whoever gets the title of the main ocean villain, they're goign to need to be rewritten heavily anyway lmao

Not like the CT has been reluctant to drastically change questlines and stories in updates

[solid ibex]

lowkey ive been thinking about the updates since 2.0

game has been improving ever since the spellbound update

since gavel reborn is arguably still adding bad shit lol

that needs reworks

[formal bridge]

Gavel reborn was a necessary learning experience for us to get to fruma lmao

So i am looking forward to gavel reborn: phoenix edition

Where they already know what went badly the second time around

[split night]

gavel gravel update

[dim plover]

Hi did I hear people talk about ocean villain

[formal bridge]

You heard correctly

[manic kraken]

bro we genuinely need a chtulu themed corruption boss for the ocean

[slim belfry]

eh idk about that we got enough corruption

[hybrid gazelle]

is

is not that just dern

that literallyj ust Dern

[slim belfry]

dernic cthulhu lives 500 meters east of the blueshift archipelago

[hybrid gazelle]

I dont think the ocean need eldritch horror to work

when we already have dern

Ocean literally could just be about pirate or some thing

it's mid game

it not that need to be crazy

just engaging enough

[slim belfry]

need more ocean itself lore like lonely islet boss

[regal spire]

Lonely Islet boss is so weird, since it kinda comes out of nowhere

[slim belfry]

yeah what do you mean you fight the remnant of the storm

[regal spire]

Fr, fym when did this exist

And why is it so weak, and surrounded by seagull corpses

[signal bough]

the hell?

never heard of this

[slim belfry]

https://wynncraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Remnant_of_the_Storm

[signal bough]

oh no one does ocean WEs

[slim belfry]

yeah I only did it once for completion

too bad they dont give anything valuable yet

[unique jungle]

Eye of the Storm

from genshin impact

[regal spire]

Sea light prism ignorers when defishious swims into view:

[slim belfry]

OH RIGHT nvm

I already forgot about defishious

[regal spire]

I did too, ngl

Isn’t it outclassed by a marshmallow now?

[formal bridge]

If future wynn ends up expanding more on demons and such I can see ocean being about a water demon who caused the storm

[regal spire]

I figured it was just gonna be “The Kraken”, or the beast that Hadal is from

[dim plover]

Hi back sorry

Okay so quick context, a year or so back I was writing up plans for a WynnExcavation storyline rewrite

And it was pretty big

As a byproduct I also ended up writing a cohesive plot for the ocean in its entirety, because a lot of it connects to a single character I created which served as the main recurring antagonist of the ocean

It was this guy, who's basically some weird squid creature who showed up some years back and has been terrorizing the sea ever since

Later into the story the player discovers that Renkka's the reincarnated/ rejuvenated avatar of the Kraken, a mythological godlike creature which I retroactively wrote into the sole entity that was responsible for the violent oceans pre-900 AP

I was really happy when I saw that Wynncraft added a boss called Remnant of the Storm in what appears to be a squidlike creature because I made the Kraken the being that caused said storm as well which matches up pretty nice

Anyways in my WynnEx (and in turn the entire ocean) rewrite he's responsible for a number of events that has happened across the ocean's history

It's less of my connecting seemingly detached ocean POIs for the sake of connecting it but I did do some for fun once I got the main timeline down

For one, the group of mages at Mage Island that calmed the ocean (Dubbed "Wave Calmers") did it by attempting to kill the Kraken with the Fire Crystal, which they obtained from Molten Heights

But because of the Kraken's near demigod-like status, it """survives""" in the form of an avatar it ejects from its seared corpse
The mages got incinerated from the powers of the Fire Crystal and Volcanic Isles forms around the Kraken's corpse

Renkka's whole motivation is to either return to the Kraken corpse to restore his original body or to obtain some other means of returning to full strength
But that's a whole other plotline on its own and I'm not really keen on flooding this place further unless asked to

Anyways that's the context

Just realized I'm still using the Kaboodle pfp

Hi I'm Purple btw

[manic kraken]

nah bro i think we need more

[manic kraken]

https://tenor.com/view/gameoverse-kaboodle-absolute-cinema-absolute-cinema-meme-gif-8017667967699891064

[manic kraken]

😔

[signal bough]

how can you even sell that?

grootslang runners- Paul Atreides

[dim plover]

(This is very funny because Renkka is actually meant to be pirate-themed while his Kraken form is meant to be Lovecraftian-themed)

[dim plover]

That being said I am actually going to be so delighted if Wynncraft actually plans for the cause of the pre-calmed ocean to actually be the Kraken

Because that would mean I predicted yet another piece of major Wynncraft content years before it was even a thing

[hybrid gazelle]

big fucking octopus

[mellow bone]

How strong is Bob

[mellow bone]

@astral burrow INSANE ACOLYTE KING of Detlas

[neat oriole]

soloed anni

i'd say pretty strong

[astral burrow]

Do i know you why did you pinged me

[frozen turtle]

I hope we meet bob so we can teach him shaman

[tired fiber]

Is this rock near the royal dam significant at all? It seems pretty obvious that there's a portal or something beneath it, but I haven't been able to make it move (posted here instead of in #questions because I hope suspect that it might lead to a mythic shrine)

[mossy badge]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-speed-stream-ishowspeed-stream-speed-nod-gif-1082323842437565509

[split night]

it's-
it's.... just a rock

[rustic nexus]

lootrun challenge

it leads to an area with a slay target challenge

[frozen turtle]

propoganda, that rock is Two's secret hideout

[hybrid gazelle]

this is so fucking funny thatn obody do lootrun to the point that some slay challenge is not known by people LMAO

[rustic nexus]

fruma foray is just that intimidating

[split night]

woah woa

[tired fiber]

I'm a lootrun grandmaster I just never felt like doing it lmao

[split night]

i'm holding out lr until i finish leveling my rift and start warping all over the place

[hybrid gazelle]

how Fruma Lootrun be holding that price on Pink Ward

I WILL HAVE 400 PLAYERS TORTURE THEMSELVES IN LOOTRUN BEFORE I PUT UP PINK WARDS IN ANY OTHER CMAP

[full jackal]

Keep it

[full jackal]

Well… Honestly it’s a bit confusing. We fight Bob’s reincarnation at Lvl.75, but that actually isn’t a very accurate reference since we don’t actually beat him, he could be holding back, or his reincarnation is only a shadow of his true strength. Alternatively, we know that after his training, he is strong enough to solo Bak’al (who is roughly maybe as strong as Lari since we see in RoL V epilogue that she says she can handle him) as well as Annihalation (took all of Detlas’s military to defeat). So really honestly we don’t know enough about him to say for sure at all, but I’d say maybe roughly… uhh… the Eye level maybe????

Yea we just don’t know

Honestly it’s a weird question because imo powerscaling is a bit of a stupid fantasy where we think we can measure characters with numbers when really true strength cannot be simplified that way.

[full jackal]

That… is actually a really cool idea

Grootslang mounts

You can ride them like in Dune

I mean I have no idea how they would fit in most areas though

Uhhh… maybe they’d be like a fast travel thing

Wait actually

What if people in Gavel, before the decay used to ride Grootslangs, native to Olux throughout the province to get from place to place, and then after the Decay, most of the Grootslangs went wild and the Grootslang railways became unused. Then, after completing NotG, you manage to excise the Decay and you can now use the Grootslang railways to travel throughout gavel

Riding them like sandworms

[full jackal]

…wait do you mean “yet” again

[dim plover]

I predicted a buncha small stuff before Wynncraft added theirs

Lemme try to recall

I guess I did conceptualize an Orphion boss battle where we fight the Parasite as the second phase but that one’s kinda easy to predict

Uhhh

I did predict Geocentrism

But that’s kinda an easy Shaman Major ID to come up with

Oh yeah I invented Trickster clones that actually distracted enemies before Wynncraft added Trickster

Also made Mantle of the Bovemists before Paladin, but honestly that was literally just a major id that added Arrow Shield to Warrior

This one’s kinda an easily derived one but my WynnEx remake had the Twain brothers be in possession of the WynnEx Crystal under Twain Lake
This was kinda confirmed when they added that line to Amadel in WynnEx Site C

I also made an ability node for Paladin that was Thaumic Adrenaline before they added Thaumic Adrenaline

Lari and Ava hugging each other, that one was wild but maybe Salted just saw my gifs

Oh and also before SE was added into the game I came up with a theoretical Road to Dern questline where Qira is our companion and we travel through the path fighting dark monsters, with the end of the Road to Dern being the entrance to Dern blocked by a dungeon that you had to clear to access

Said dungeon had us fight a boss that was floating a bit off the air with a black skeletal helmet and arms in a sort of velociraptor stance in front of it

And it had minions that it can spawn which are literally black hands that charge towards the player

And the entire fight was on a stone platform in the void

Granted my badatgamedesign ass at the time made the boss unkillable and be able to one shot any player it hits, and the only way to win the dungeon is to push it into a portal at the side of the arena and destroy the portal frame to close it

And then SE came out and then TNA came out sometime after and I was like “oh huh”

Oh right and I guess I also conceptualized the idea of a void ocean before the game outright said it

[full jackal]

Holy shit you are a fucking prophet

[full jackal]

Wait this actually happened?

[split night]

can you predict something from deltarune

chapter V is about to be out to it'd be funny

[dim plover]

#📫noticeboard message

[dim plover]

The Forgotten Man behind the tree is the actual entity where the mysteryman sprite belongs to

Like, the head is literally egg-shaped with cracks

[slim belfry]

OH MY GOSH

[split night]

this is a bit too lukewarm

[dim plover]

Like, he’s finally going to poke his head out from behind the tree and it’s the mysteryman sprite with a really friendly smile

[split night]

can you say something more insane

[slim belfry]

FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE WHO BELIEVED THIS

[dim plover]

And he’s like a genuinely chill guy

[split night]

i thought like a lot of people believe in this

wdym xd

[slim belfry]

uhhhh

[dim plover]

And then Gaster’s going to show up after and he’s Sans with an orange coat and Papyrus’ head

[slim belfry]

also wtf

[split night]

yes that's morel ike it

[hushed obsidian]

I don't think Salted was involved in that besides posting it

[full jackal]

I predict: asgore will hit Kris with his truck and then he’ll be like oh no I got too drunk at hit my offspring what will I doooo

[full jackal]

Crazy

[split night]

the 51 they/them citation

[slim belfry]

gaster split theory...

[full jackal]

Fuck

[dim plover]

And then he’s going to grab a long bone and split it in two and Susie’s going to say “Oh my god that’s incredible I am in disbelief”

[slim belfry]

ok so I do think forgotten man and gaster are different so there's
that

[dim plover]

Has he seen my new Queen gif

[full jackal]

I mean… I’ve heard a really good theory about how the mystery man storyline sorta relates to artistic expression

Wait lemme find it

[full jackal]

It was so fucking funny

[split night]

my chapter 5 depiction is that Kris will rip us out and then before beating us we ran to noelle as we draw our last breath and possess her

[dim plover]

He has the opportunity to do the funniest thing in his next noticeboard post

[hushed obsidian]

if it's the one I am thinking of then I think so

can you remind me what it was again?

[dim plover]

I want to see the CT’s reactions to it but I don’t have access to the CT servers

[split night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/296377212939010050/1500655888086863893/confession.gif

[dim plover]

If there’s ever a reason I eventually join the staff team it’s to literally just be able to read what the CT thought about the stuff I made

(Like, in a non egotistical way)

(I just like seeing people experiencing the stuff I create)

[hushed obsidian]

yeh that one is weeks old isn't it? It was shared on ct and people found it funny iirc

[split night]

your stuff is very cool, you deserve it

[hushed obsidian]

I assume Salted has seen it too

ngl I thought some ct just did a funny when I first saw it

[dim plover]

Oh wait Fruma is out I can ask this now

What about my fake version of Fruma

[hushed obsidian]

what about it?

also I love Soosu's adoption papers xD

[dim plover]

I was already told that they saw it but

God I’m so curious

I really wish I had more time to make it though

[hushed obsidian]

although Soosu would never actually wanna be adopted by the Queen

[dim plover]

The stuff that was posted on the forums is like a third of what I actually planned

[hushed obsidian]

I think most times you share something new someone immediately shares it to ct

[dim plover]

Lmao

[full jackal]

WAIT NOOO I TYPED OUT LIKE AN ENTIRE ESSAY ABOUT WHAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE CHANGED AND I COPIED IT TO TYPE OUT SOMETHING ELSE BUT TURNS OUT I COPIED SOMETHING ELSE IN THE MEANWHILE AND NOW IT’S GONE

[dim plover]

God it has just occurred to me that if I release anything playable that’s Wynncraft-related that some CT might play it too

[hushed obsidian]

keep in mind ct+mods combined are like over 150 people most of them reasonable active even if perhaps lurking

[dim plover]

I hope I can wow everyone with Hidden Side

And also actually get back to and finish Hidden Side

[full jackal]

Well, that’s good! You’d deserve it boy/girl/other squirrel

[hushed obsidian]

you should just join ct and do silly stuff that never gets released

and then some silly stuff gets released anyways

that way you don't have to develop your own tools

[dim plover]

Developing my own tools is kinda bonus points though

[hushed obsidian]

I wonder if our tools or yours are more jank

I mean many of our modern tools aren't jank but older ones can be special

[dim plover]

Have you seen my newer progress on the mob system?

I would have more done by now but then I finally decided to enter Fruma on live servers and it’s been taking my free time ever since

I’ll probably go back like tomorrow though

[marble lantern]

my favorite thing is to lurk

[hushed obsidian]

I have not. I've been taking a break from wynn for like a month.

[dim plover]

(Original mockup and about a week after)
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/262010576295821312/1502093507110899802/ability.mp4?ex=69fe7517&is=69fd2397&hm=3d3c41571d7099b59e33f54d3735c6b405d90043e363ac314b16801662dba771&
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/262010576295821312/1502093509665231009/abilitynew.mp4?ex=69fe7518&is=69fd2398&hm=bc55778561b169c50362270a951b4c264846a56c98dabac2abc61e4eeefce682&

[hushed obsidian]

as a Quest Designer I haven't had to work yet since fruma release, besides some minor bug fixes on my quest in the first few days and it's been the first time since I joined that that I could just not think about wynn for entire weeks I think.

[dim plover]

Extra forced attack system (I haven’t made the projectile system yet so no projectiles yet)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/262010576295821312/1503697788578304051/aim.mp4?ex=6a044b32&is=6a02f9b2&hm=76b85be42abbb05665214fef94fae2766735716a0cd5a94b657d37ef5460f5d8&

[full jackal]

Is this like… made only with command blocks or command blocks + Java/other programming languages/plugins

[hushed obsidian]

looks cool. Do I spy the Bob arena from wynncon?

[full jackal]

Cuz this is insanely impressive

[dim plover]

Ah yeah I asked the build for it
I needed a clean open arena space that also isn’t just a generic Roblox baseplate

[dim plover]

Uh

Datapacks I guess

[full jackal]

What is used to make the datapacks?

[dim plover]

Wdym

[hushed obsidian]

command blocks lol.

[slim belfry]

holy shoot crepuscular ray

[hushed obsidian]

May I ask your thoughts on The Scarred Springs Quest btw purple?

[full jackal]

I mean uh… I have 0 experience in modding and stuff so like, is the data pack programmed using Java or something else

[dim plover]

I was actually going to make the mob shoot 3 meteors

But yeah

[dim plover]

Is that the dam one

[hushed obsidian]

no it's the Hotspring one

[full jackal]

That would be undersupply

[dim plover]

Uh

(I’m trying to remember where in Fruma has hotsprings)

[full jackal]

Auburn

You know, it’s the one where you do tasks for that one person

[dim plover]

OHHH right yeah

[hushed obsidian]

Auburn yeh. you repair the Hotsprings with an NPC name Maripe (who is not a girl)

[full jackal]

And you have to stick an ad in Espren

[dim plover]

Kinda short but it’s a neat sidequest

I had like minor feedback here but that’s about it

The quest is just a nice break from the stuff that happens in the main plotline

[hushed obsidian]

tbh I hardly remember what the fox interactions say, I didn't write those

but no big feelings about the quest besides a nice break is honestly the perfect feedback because that's all it's trying to be

[dim plover]

Oh yeah going back a little to the thing about me predicting future Wynncraft content because I just got reminded of something

Chances are Wynncraft is going to rework a lot of the old stuff so this isn’t going to be surprising, but the shop GUI is getting a bit too outdated

[hushed obsidian]

have you ever considered that you might not be predicting these things, you're manifesting by inspiring the ct?

[dim plover]

The thing is, I’m planning to make a shop system in the Hidden Side that’s just a completely different experience than the one we have in-game

Which, to be honest is going to be kinda annoying so I’ve split it into two parts

[hushed obsidian]

what do you mean by shop? like normal emerald merchants etc.?

[dim plover]

But either way for both types, when you speak to the vendor/ merchant a chest GUI doesn’t open up anymore

The dialogue box, along with a bunch of other panels around the screen will like slide into view

Sort of like Undertale/ Deltarune’s visual structure

And the player’s bodily autonomy is basically nullified and the camera slides to face the merchant if they aren’t already facing them

This also gives the opportunity for said merchant to like, emote or speak if you do certain things in the menu

[dim plover]

For the generic type (the first type), you just buy the items from the menu itself

This one’s mostly for convenience sake, players do want to hop in, spam click potions and then fly away straight after

Then there’s the second type which is mostly for more uncommon situations, like during quests

Usually a merchant literally behind a cash register area in a shop, where players actively grab stuff from the shelves and bring it to said NPC to purchase, so the items list panel will be replaced with a “items in your cart” panel

It’s immersive but it’s like, really really annoying in regular gameplay

So probably going to just be a quest thing for specific items

I also plan to tinker with my dialogue system a little (Yes, I recreated Wynncraft’s dialogue system) to be able to have two NPCs speaking at the same time

Like, portraits on both sides

If Wynncraft adds this within the next year or something I am going to flip

(Ok not really but it’ll be really funny)

(But just saying, I did it first)

There’s a large region I planned in the Hidden Side where all the NPCs basically speak in their own language

[hushed obsidian]

what if we were already working on it in the background? then you didn't

[dim plover]

And said language isn’t really a real conlang, it’s not meant to be translated

In-game your companion NPC will repeat their words in english if they’re currently next to you

[hushed obsidian]

ngl the fact that fruma got it's own conlang is already kinda absurd

[full jackal]

I mean no offence but the fact that Fruma has a conlang

[dim plover]

So like, in this region you can’t understand a damn thing the shop vendors are saying

[full jackal]

Has massive implications on the rest of Wynncraft

[hushed obsidian]

how do you mean?

[full jackal]

Like for example: If Fruma is a conlang

[dim plover]

Unless you also have the translator beside you

[full jackal]

Then why is Wynnic not resembling Tahkashtel

[hushed obsidian]

sounds interesting

[full jackal]

Why do we, as someone who speaks Wynnic, understand Gavellian perfectly easily

[hushed obsidian]

Tahkashtel?

[full jackal]

Since Gavel and Wynn have 0 contact how come we seem to have mutual intelligibility

[dim plover]

And all the shop items are also in that language, so the best thing the game has to offer is to describe the items’ appearances

And the shop vendor kinda has to resort to miming and gestures since they realize that we don’t understand them

[hushed obsidian]

Wynnic is english and spoken in all of Wynn and gavel. Old wynic and high gavellian are the non english languages

[full jackal]

Yea since Wynnic people are descended from Fruma modern day Tahkashtel should be resembling WYnnic

[full jackal]

So like this implies in 100 years all of gavel learnt Wynnic

[mellow bone]

@hushed obsidian We have over 3 classes that are long ranged but only 2 classes close ranged (Assassin , Warrior). Do you think it is a good idea to add a class that is the balance between warrior and assassin? Like if Warrior is Tank and Assassin is High Damage Low Defense Style how about we have a class "Fencer" (Sword as primary weapon)?

[hushed obsidian]

gameplay purposes. It just kinda is the case.

[regal spire]

The fact that Fruma got daggers called roaring thunder and Carole, both having incredibly unique MID’s, means that space glide is coming to a helmet any day now, which I believe to be far more implicative than a conlang 🤪

[dim plover]

Might want to rename the modern language the characters speak

[full jackal]

Reasonable ig

[dim plover]

To some other name other than Wynnic

Like, uh

Physicllic

Or like

Earthian

[hushed obsidian]

I haven't paid attention to any class balancing I can't help you. And you am also not working on anything balancing related.

[dim plover]

Or

[full jackal]

what

[dim plover]

English

[dim plover]

Physical Plane

[full jackal]

I mean like why do they call it “Wynnic” though

Like the same suffix as English?

[dim plover]

Idk it’s just a plothole

[hushed obsidian]

what is Tahkashtel?

[full jackal]

The conlang

I mean it’s just that… assuming that Tahkashtel was written down before 0AP

[regal spire]

Cause it makes more sense than having English be the name of the in-game spoken language

[dim plover]

Is it though

[regal spire]

Well, yeah

[dim plover]

Like, you can just call it English and you don’t really get any questions but calling it Wynnic implies that it would only be in the province of Wynn

[full jackal]

Shouldn’t Wynnic orthography resemble Tahkashtel orthography more

[hushed obsidian]

reasonable yeh. I don't actually know from when the name is but I assume it's just from a time only Wynn existed and then for gameplay purposes all new places needed to also speak that language

[dim plover]

The modern language isn’t really mentioned in too many places so I’m sure they can easily just change it if they wanted to

I can’t exactly remember any places off the top of my head that directly called our language “Wynnic”

Except for this Cowfusion one that’s probably already removed by now

[full jackal]

Get

The fuck

[regal spire]

None of the humans are stemming from any notably Germanic routes, and the concept of English being a thing doesn’t make any sense, when the name scheme and notable symbols are so far beyond English’s roots. It’s just a blanket term for a language decided on by two species, which developed a similar structure.

[full jackal]

Out

[hushed obsidian]

<@&268142859327242242>

[full jackal]

Why do they even do this no one is falling for ts

[hushed obsidian]

English is only the way it is for gameplay purposes it doesn't canonically need to be the way it is presented to the player

either way though I don't know much about the language stuff

[regal spire]

Gavellian and Wynnic, I assume, would have had a similar grammatical structure, but they eventually converged on the same name scheme, once the two provinces aligned

Now, everyone speaks a different style, but the same language to better understand each other

[full jackal]

I mean like the way I assume it worked… is like they don’t actually canonically speak English in-game they speak their own language in game but it’s translated in gameplay so while we see English they’re speaking Wynnic or something

[hushed obsidian]

yeh it could be like different dialects

[hushed obsidian]

it's something that doesn't really need to make perfect sense and doesn't need to be explained it just needs to be

you've gotta draw the line on going into about how everything works somewhere

[full jackal]

Yea I’m looking way too deep into this lmao

[hushed obsidian]

<@&268142859327242242>

[full jackal]

AGAINN????

<@&268142859327242242>

[regal spire]

Bro, beast bots at it again

[hushed obsidian]

actually insane

[full jackal]

Who is even falling for this?

Do they think we’re 8 year olds?

[regal spire]

Children

Not unlikely

All they need is 1 guy

[full jackal]

Who tf even watches Mr.Beast and is old enough to use discord in the big 2026

[hushed obsidian]

many people probably

[full jackal]

But like… this is the oldest scam in the book

If you actually fall for this I think you kinda deserve it

[regal spire]

Statistically speaking, with the size of the server (I think it’s more than 100000 discord members), there’s at least 1. (Assuming that all 488m subscribers are active)

[hushed obsidian]

what is the math you're doing to get to that conclusion?

[regal spire]

Just made it up

Mr beast!

[hushed obsidian]

also there are 190k members on wynncord

you were only off by a factor of roughly 2

[mossy widget]

mr beat

[regal spire]

Oh, it’s a guarantee, then

[full jackal]

Mr.Beat mogs Mr.Beast 100%

[regal spire]

Sike, it’s like 1/2000

[dim plover]

Orphion Beast

[full jackal]

Okay but like statistically though who would fall for this scam in the 10 second interval between when it was sent and when it was taken down

[full jackal]

And in lore discussion of all places

[full jackal]

Awwwwwwwwwwww

[hushed obsidian]

well Mr beats has 488m subscribers. The earth has a population of 8 billion. Roughly 1 in 16 people are subscribed to mr beast then. This would mean about 190000/16 people on this discord subscribed to mr beast

[regal spire]

It’s less about the chance and more about the reward

[full jackal]

Well yea but most people who subscribe to Mr.Beast are children on mommy’s tablet

They probably don’t use discord

Let alone participate in lore discussions

[regal spire]

You don’t need a high chance to justify the means of automated scams. You just need the chance to exist for a single person to fall for it

[full jackal]

Why would they even bother

[hushed obsidian]

yeh I am well aware that my statistical math completely ignored demographics

[full jackal]

Putting in the effort

To advertise their shitty scam here

When there are multiple better places to be advertising

[regal spire]

Ignoring air resistance fr

[hushed obsidian]

though I for example am also subscribed to Mr beast and haven't watched his videos in years. And my math was assuming all subscribers to be active so it was wildly unrealistic to begin with.

[hushed obsidian]

it only makes sense to simplify calculations if you only want a rough idea of scale

[regal spire]

It’s more like 100m, anyways. Better to go off about 80% of their total view count per video.

[hushed obsidian]

and then from there you can eyeball the inaccuracy

[regal spire]

What do they get, like, 130m views?

[regal spire]

Better to measure from the 6th or 7th unit of pi

[hushed obsidian]

ngl these are some weird ass lore discussions we are having

[regal spire]

Well, beast lore is prominent in Wynn

[hushed obsidian]

truee

though realm beasts are gender neutral so none of them are Misters

[full jackal]

Ugh I had to redo this multiple times because i accidentally deleted this

[regal spire]

But Orphion

He’s Mr. light Beast

[full jackal]

Wait didn’t Two say that they’re brothers?

Or did she say they’re siblings

[regal spire]

I thought that they just sorta assigned themselves a gender, with Orphion being Male, Ana being Female, and Saph being agender

Filter…

[hushed obsidian]

wtf my message got auto filtered?

[regal spire]

CT filtered? I need a mod…

[hushed obsidian]

ohh I think I know why. I used a mod usually used in a non PG-13 context

I was saying realm beasts don't reproduce so they don't need reproductive organs therefor having no biological "gender" (I think the other word gets censored)

ig they could follow social genders though like Anathema posing as a female human queen

[regal spire]

You think they might have manifested one?

Gulp…

[full jackal]

I completely stopped what I was writing to say this:

WHAT THE FUCK

[hushed obsidian]

for the sake of my own sanity i'm gonna say no

[full jackal]

why

Why would they

T_T

[regal spire]

Funnier fr

[hushed obsidian]

also shame on you for asking such questions

[regal spire]

Shame on me? Shame on me?

[full jackal]

SHAME

[hushed obsidian]

shmeg on you

[regal spire]

Can’t a man be inquisitive

[dim plover]

She said twins

Which doesn’t necessarily mean siblings

[full jackal]

There is a great difference between being inquisitive and asking too much

[hushed obsidian]

not if it isn't PG-13 on a PG-13 server

[dim plover]

Could be literal twin forces

[full jackal]

You have made Curious George run out of Curiosity. He has seen enough and has deemed this cruel world too wicked to be worth learning about.

[hushed obsidian]

why are you trying to make gods follow any human logic?

[dim plover]

Anathema is their child and they have to take care of her (They failed)

[hushed obsidian]

I wouldn't put it this way honestly

[regal spire]

Orphion, at least, attempts to feign some kind of divinity, which is innately tied to a more human concept of godhood

[full jackal]

I mean maybe Orphion and Saph like doing Zeus activities or something that is the only reason I could ever think of that would justify this ludicrous thought

[hushed obsidian]

well a god that wants to be seen as a god by mortals needs to simplify the concept of itself to be more understandable my the mortals so they can easier grasp their existence and follow them

[hushed obsidian]

why are you even trying to justify it?

[regal spire]

If the elves weren’t so tied to the light, we wouldn’t have had Ana in Fruma fr

[full jackal]

You’re right I’m sorry

I have sinned

[regal spire]

I just wonder how they go potty

[hushed obsidian]

I think you are right? honestly I am not 100% sure how it worked rn.

[regal spire]

Like, Y’know, pee pee?

Do they have anything close to biology? Did the Queen need to use the bathroom, like, ever?

[hushed obsidian]

why would they need to? I have no reason to believe they even eat. Rememer realm beasts are synonimous to their realms themselves. They are one and the same. You wouldn't try to argue that the realm of light or war need to eat or excrete.

[regal spire]

I would, actually, because of their innate desire to claim. I would assume this is their instinctual drive for survival, and would be the closest thing they have to eating

[hushed obsidian]

the only indication that humans in Wynncraft even need to use the bathroom is that bathrooms exist. I don't think it is ever actually mentioned

[regal spire]

Ana is the only one I’m actually really interested in knowing the limits of their shell, or the constraints. Did they ever need to eat, or sleep, or use the bathroom?

How far does the shell go to mimic humanity?

[hushed obsidian]

consuming as in spreading their influence being similar to us eating is a reasonable parallel to draw but they still don't excrete any of that

[regal spire]

Maybe that’s what war is lol

Light and dark eat too closely to each other and poop our war

[hushed obsidian]

idk honestly but yeh it's an interesting question to ask.

so Anathema isn't their child, it is their excrete?

[regal spire]

Maybe they have innate biological drives within the realms themselves that mimic such behavior

[regal spire]

Unironically how it feels like it’s depicted

[hushed obsidian]

it does yeh

I mean the metaphor makes sense

[regal spire]

I wonder if they have any actual biology planned for these beasts

[hushed obsidian]

🤷

[regal spire]

So far, they’re just sorta living embodiments, and it doesn’t go any farther. Ana’s the only time we’ve ever seen such a unique depiction of a realm beast

Did she need to brush her teeth, is a real question

[hushed obsidian]

no, the real question is what is her body even made out of?

and if she didn't eat then why would she need to brush her teeth? and on that note: did she eat?

[frozen turtle]

to make her teeth shiny, im sure even if you dont eat they might go dull

[hushed obsidian]

in order to get dull, they need to wear off and what would they wear off on? does she grind her teeth? does she have saliva?

can she just replace her teeth?

or are they part of the whole that keeps her realm beast form contained?

[frozen turtle]

maybe thats why she wanted to upgrade/fix the new resonance weaver

to replace her teeth

[hushed obsidian]

she wanted it to be able to repair herself I think so yeh maybe that is one of the things she would have wanted to be able to repair

[frozen turtle]

what if she tried to eat something and chipped her tooth

something ot think about

[hushed obsidian]

skill issue

[frozen turtle]

i mean, she probably wouldnt know what is edible

at first

[hushed obsidian]

also how long has it been since the resonance weaver in it's original form stopped working?

so how long has her body been exposed to wear without repair?

[frozen turtle]

i dont know if it broke but she wanted it upgraded/fixed

[narrow kestrel]

The implications of WTP is so funny to me

Like. A few (successful) batches from fruma could just. Return and beat the shit out of the palace

[hushed obsidian]

yeh idk if the original part was even able to repair her true

[frozen turtle]

if the original was able to create the shell

then surely it would've been able to repair it

so maybe it did break or she had another plan with it

[abstract snow]

doubt it tbh

the player is an extremely powerful exception and idt the resistance would have made it anywhere near there without us

[narrow kestrel]

Well yeah but we arent THAT significantly stronger

[frozen turtle]

Powerscaling time!!

[narrow kestrel]

Considering Gikyo was fighting us fairly well

and Sui just. Kills them

Free!

[frozen turtle]

Out of those who come with us in the raid

Zeph is the weakest for sure and by a large margin

[narrow kestrel]

Not to mention Rex literally clowning Tasim with blessings even though shes just spamming her bow

[hushed obsidian]

we mainly have plot armor and feel like we can beat anything because the lore only lets us fight (and win) in fights we could canonicaly win

[hushed obsidian]

yeh tasim and sui are kinda insane

[narrow kestrel]

Thinking of how "weak" the palace is, it makes sense that Ana REALLY didnt want magic users in Fruma

[abstract snow]

its up to interpretation kinda cause we dont have a ton of exact info but ive always felt like the player was quite a bit more powerful than other ppl, even strong ones lorewise

[frozen turtle]

we need more impossible bosses for sure

The Player and Sui are probably the strongest

[hushed obsidian]

I don't think so honestly

[frozen turtle]

Tasim is also decently strong

out of those 4

[narrow kestrel]

Sui is more than just a magic caster though

Something something natural born weaver

Whatever that means

Two needs to fuck off

[abstract snow]

i don’t think sui should have killed gikyo that easy personally, at least i think it should have been faster. in that cutscene i feel like gikyo had so much time to react

[frozen turtle]

Sui has been shown to be very strong

[narrow kestrel]

But yeah if you powerscale stuff then the Palace isnt that scary

[hushed obsidian]

Sui's power feels really hard to judge we haven't seen her with proper training yet just with anger

[hushed obsidian]

natural born mana weaver

[abstract snow]

if she caught him by surprise i’d understand but she kinda just. kills him and he just sits there and takes it

[frozen turtle]

and also im just judging that if Two is impressed by her being a manaweaver, she's obviously very strong

[hushed obsidian]

gikyo was heavily weakened from us he couldn't do much more

[narrow kestrel]

Im taking it more as a surprise that one still existed to this day

[frozen turtle]

everyone is a kill stealer in Wynn

[foggy condor]

Exactly

[abstract snow]

it would be funny if there was occasional dialogue choice that let you attack ppl and then you just die

[frozen turtle]

Fruma moreso tho

[narrow kestrel]

Considering Two is making it seem like her kind died out a long time ago

[foggy condor]

Hunger of gerts

[frozen turtle]

what if Two is a manaweaver and also Two is Bob's weapon

[narrow kestrel]

?

[frozen turtle]

I think we're forgetting Beyond the grave

where we die pretty easily

[foggy condor]

Forget if it's part 1 or 2

[narrow kestrel]

Bro can we get Twain shit before we get even more bobslop

😭

They've been hyping up Mael and doing NOTHING

[abstract snow]

that was my assumption during the cutscene but i feel like it could be shown better, it was a bit odd for me on first watch. the player is just kinda gone too lol

[wispy flicker]

was it a death tho

[frozen turtle]

um

yeah

you die from a creature and go to death's realm

[wispy flicker]

since our soul and body just become 2

[narrow kestrel]

Death also mentions we have already died several times even before this

[hushed obsidian]

is the player gone? I don't remember. You might have done it during a time when player models were broken and invisible in cutscenes.

[narrow kestrel]

We just forget

[frozen turtle]

basically, the players strength is just Plot Armour

[frozen turtle]

or we're just standing there probably

[abstract snow]

that’s possible, though i did it on beta and on live a few days after release and both had no player model

i can try again tho

[hushed obsidian]

the player strength is that the game doens't let us pick fights we can't win

[foggy condor]

You're in death's realm and literal straight up Death tells us we're dead

[narrow kestrel]

Although that statement depends on if you believe it to be lore-accurate or just an ingame explanation of respawning

[abstract snow]

i’m pretty sure beyond the grave isnt rly canon, a ct said it a while ago iirc

hes got like a tv and stuff anyway lmao

[frozen turtle]

its cannon, just needs updating

[narrow kestrel]

Gavel and retcons

Name a better duo

[frozen turtle]

I think Lexnt said it was cannon

[abstract snow]

its canon in my heart

[narrow kestrel]

Imo its canon

[hushed obsidian]

it's like ehh. I think most ct want it be not canon and lex might have said it was canon in the sense that everything is canon as long as it is in the game.

[narrow kestrel]

Otherwise it makes Nesaak SD a joke

If A Deathly Warning ends up turning out to be a joke SD then it would really question the validity of some other SDs

[soft radish]

I hate the fact that Krolton is propped up as this "ultimate killing machine" and yet is probably one of the easier mini bosses in the game

[shy hemlock]

Who and where is the changeling in Gavel?

[frozen turtle]

well then most CT should be fired if they dont want beyond the grave should be canon. i need it to be canon

[hushed obsidian]

gimmick bosses tend to be on the easier side

[hushed obsidian]

general's order

[frozen turtle]

that changeling just chills in canyon of the lost, probably because it got lost

[wispy flicker]

bad quest

[soft radish]

But I didn't even need to use the gimmick

[narrow kestrel]

Eh

Its fun

[soft radish]

I didn't need to collapse the cave, I just killed him normally

[hushed obsidian]

happens

[frozen turtle]

i wonder if they are gonna rework the quest General's Order considering its changeling

related

[narrow kestrel]

Gavel Side quests fall in 3 categories, "why does this exist", "Holy peak", "oh they wanted to have fun i guess"

[frozen turtle]

make General's order a requirement for Queens Recruit

[wispy flicker]

gavel quests are bad

[frozen turtle]

Ultimate Weapon, Shattered Minds, Realm of Light Questline

[wispy flicker]

except realm of light

and rodoroc

[soft radish]

Ok the later quests are fine

[hushed obsidian]

I believe general's order was reworked with fruma lore already in mind. Afaik it mentions the changeling coming from somewhere south-west which would be referring to fruma

[soft radish]

Rodoroc and Ahmsord quests are fine

[frozen turtle]

oh right it was reworked

[narrow kestrel]

im gonna kill people who say the canary calls is bad bro

Run.

[frozen turtle]

foreshadowing

[frozen turtle]

canary calls is peak

not as good as shattered minds

[shy hemlock]

hmh ok

[soft radish]

That fuckin bird that I hate

[shy hemlock]

i have a big question yall

So as we all know Anathema is a butterfly

but that means

[soft radish]

*moth

[narrow kestrel]

? Brother thats a moth

[shy hemlock]

Whatever

[frozen turtle]

moths are butterflies same thing

[narrow kestrel]

Her Majesty is a butterfly

[narrow kestrel]

??

[pallid rain]

no they are not

[shy hemlock]

Anathema is a Moth. Does that mean she was a little grub at some point in her life

[soft radish]

If it's got fur it's a moth

[full jackal]

Shit

[hushed obsidian]

anathema is more moth like and beasts aren't one creature they are just whatever they are, not part of a species

[narrow kestrel]

They're not really an animal

They just are

[frozen turtle]

moth nerds over here for real

[narrow kestrel]

Their design just takes inspiration from real stuff

[abstract snow]

no she is a butterfly, i would know this because i wrote her lore so.

[split night]

Anathema is both moth and butterfly guys
it's in roughworks

[hushed obsidian]

somehow I doubt that but I can't tell why

[shy hemlock]

motherfly

[soft radish]

Which means Orphion was never just a smol puppy at one point

[narrow kestrel]

You wrote fruma stuff?? Why didnt you make tasim kiss the player on the bridge?? Are you stupid???

[narrow kestrel]

What where

[abstract snow]

i did but its in the unused alternative route rn

[frozen turtle]

maybe like... they made her majesty a butterfly theme because its like symbolic cuz we see butterflies are beautiful while moths are annoying and bad or maybe not

[hushed obsidian]

we had to leave some stuff for the alternative storyline where we tell tasim in Queen's Recruit!

[split night]

there's a statue or symbol depict something that's both moth and butterfly
ask Trashie, he found it somewhere

I thought this is already confirmed by CT? xd

[dim plover]

Hi I just returned what did I miss

[shy hemlock]

How different is alt route even gonna be

[frozen turtle]

Apothesis is gonna be replaced by an entire quest where you're on a date with Tasim for the alt route

fun fact

[abstract snow]

i hope its rly different honestly

[hushed obsidian]

I think it's because butterflies are a metaphor for change and metamorphosis and Anathema became the Queen

[narrow kestrel]

Wtf I love fruma now??

[hushed obsidian]

idk

[narrow kestrel]

Transfiguration is based on her

[abstract snow]

i dont rly love how we’re kinda forced into the resistance lol so im hoping the alt route is less like that

though i doubt it

[shy hemlock]

Would the alt route impact anything post fruma like dern

[narrow kestrel]

I dont trust the CT to handle alternative routes in the story

[hushed obsidian]

note how the thing based on her is called TRANSfiguration cuz Anathema turning into the Queen is trans in a way

[narrow kestrel]

😭

[soft radish]

The alt route: you become the sovereign instead of Tasim

[abstract snow]

honestly yeah i’d be fine with that

[abstract snow]

lol

[frozen turtle]

thats probably main reason, i just like that they made Anathema a moth cuz like, people hate moths for some reason but love butterflies which is how she's kinda viewed

[shy hemlock]

that would actually be hella fun

[hushed obsidian]

that is why managers are doing it! (I think?)

[frozen turtle]

are the managers yaoi fans?

if they aren't then i dont trust them

[abstract snow]

i would have much rather become a sovereign and then see the resistances side of things from an outside perspective over time instead of just. you’re in the resistance now i guess

[shy hemlock]

everything in wynn is either yaoi or yuri

i thought maxie was a man

[foggy condor]

Uhhhh

[hushed obsidian]

also how Anathema her more hated self is a moth and so when she became the Queen she rebranded to butterflies

[split night]

theory
bak'al is transphobic, that's why he break up with Her's Majesty

[narrow kestrel]

Does that mean Dern is the UK then

😭

[split night]

no Saphanis is just homophobic

they killed Aledar

[frozen turtle]

no im pretty sure Anathema is more homophobic tho

[narrow kestrel]

so saphanis is jk rowling

got it

[frozen turtle]

Anathema hates yuri

[hushed obsidian]

the player is not saphanis (or is it?)

[frozen turtle]

Orphion is racist, Anathema is Homophobic, Saphanis is either sexist or transphobic

and thats just a fact

[abstract snow]

two sides of the same coin frfr

[hushed obsidian]

I think all of them are every -ist and every -phobic

[narrow kestrel]

Ngl the whole "Player is from Dern" crack theory is starting to sound a little more plausible with each passing story update where we dont get any fucking info on Dern at all

😭

[frozen turtle]

Orphion is literally in Gavel, the Province of Racism
and Anathema literally used mind control/wiping to stop Yuri like..

[shy hemlock]

if anathema was sexist my goats zhiarok and majin wouldnt be sovereigns

[narrow kestrel]

im still putting money on my theory of the player being a rejected scion of saphanis btw

[abstract snow]

that’d be cool

[hushed obsidian]

if anathema was homophobic tasim wouldn't be sovereign

[split night]

everytime i read this it just remind me of player-just-randomly-exist-one-day theory

Is there a name for these kind of logical fallacy or some shit
are we making weird ass theory that serve no story purpose and then find evidence to support it? 😭

[frozen turtle]

i think the player is a scion of cows

[frozen turtle]

thats why he's the special sovereign she's sending to Dern

[hushed obsidian]

cows or wocs?

[split night]

like those old theory where migrate bird are theorized to dive down to lake to hibernate

people used to believe this

[shy hemlock]

imagine if wocs were changelings

[solid ibex]

who keeps ghost pinging me here what did i do 💔💔💔

[frozen turtle]

same thing, wocs are just like, more cow-realm influenced then cows

like yk

[hushed obsidian]

what if we don't have to imagine?

[narrow kestrel]

Holy shit i just heard Epic Wynn in Journey

😭

[shy hemlock]

i wouldnt be surprised

[narrow kestrel]

NOL IS PEAKKK

[full jackal]

Yea sorry its me you said something about reworks and I was writing a whole thing about reworks and I accidentally sent it multiple times because my fingers are way too flimsy

[hushed obsidian]

I know what you mean but I don't agree

[frozen turtle]

im a woc expert so

[full jackal]

And like it was a reply to your message and shit

[abstract snow]

i forgive you

[frozen turtle]

when are they gonna make Lari a male so then Orphion and Larry could be a toxic yaoi?

[hybrid gazelle]

I think it pretty ignorant for you to say wocs and cows are the same

consider they are spieces from other planet

[hushed obsidian]

alien spices

[frozen turtle]

cows are wocs

[hybrid gazelle]

that likely would have different evolution lineage compare to cow of the world that Wynncraft primarily take place

[frozen turtle]

but like

[hybrid gazelle]

Wocs are not cows but some wocs turn into cows

but they are still entirely different speices

due to different evolutionary lineage

[frozen turtle]

cows are an influence like light and dark

they are both cows

realm of cow

yk

[hybrid gazelle]

so therefore

[hushed obsidian]

corrupter of worlds?

[hybrid gazelle]

they are not cow

similar to how whale are mammals

and not fish

is due to the fact that they compeltely have different evolution lineage

[frozen turtle]

Corrupter of Worlds is from the RoC (realm of cow)

[hybrid gazelle]

what you see is merely the result of convergence evolution

in which different spieces despite having barely any connection

happen to have similar appareance

[pine flower]

I for one think we should focus our efforts on the realm of bloomi

[hybrid gazelle]

and in fact calling wocs as cows also further ignorant

[frozen turtle]

Woc's were turned into cow-forms

[shy hemlock]

cowruptor of worlds

[frozen turtle]

by the realm beast of cows

[hybrid gazelle]

because not only you are comparing spieces that primary used for livestock and less sapient intelligence

[solid ibex]

ah ic lmfao

its okay

[hybrid gazelle]

to fully sapient spieces that match of our own

so callign them cow would be similar to that of calling human monkey

which is should be a slur

[frozen turtle]

are you saying cows are not intelligent in wynn

[hybrid gazelle]

since you are calling them as nothing but livestock

sapient intelligence

[frozen turtle]

ur saying the sapient cows are livestock

[hybrid gazelle]

those are different

[frozen turtle]

i think all cows are sapient but they hide it

[hybrid gazelle]

if they do in fact are sapient then they do not display so far

[hushed obsidian]

sapient?

[pine flower]

The bovemists will hunt you down for suggesting this

[hybrid gazelle]

thus we will not consider them as sapient unless they say other wise

[frozen turtle]

they are hiding cuz

they are spies

[hushed obsidian]

what is sapient?

[frozen turtle]

for Cow Beast

and Woc Cows were punished for disobeyed cow beast obviously

im pretty sure this is canon

[hybrid gazelle]

but so far calling wocs a cow would be same as calling human a monkey or avo a bird

so unless we see that all cows are in fact sapient

[pine flower]

I think its an ability to perform somewhat complex problem solving

[frozen turtle]

ur thinking about the anti-bovemist propoganda they told us

in actual lore disucssion fashion, why do we think Wocs were turned into "cows" upon their arrival to Earth

[hybrid gazelle]

well that depend on what we know about bovemist

and what the religion is about

as far as we know outside of meta context

[frozen turtle]

my theory is just that when Woc's landed originally it started a religion based on cows descending from the sky

[hybrid gazelle]

which in meta context as far as we know it simply a joke about how religion in Wynncraft world is worshipping Salted who in fact is the owner of the server therefore a god in the eyes of meta sense

however if we only thinking of within the setting in which salted would not consider as he is a real life person

while we have no concrete evidence to what bovemist truly is

we only do have some clue scatter throughout the game that could lead to what it is

[frozen turtle]

it might not even have a proper lore is the fun part

[hybrid gazelle]

as far as we know it likely that bovemist have originate from Wynn Province as Nemract Catheral which build style similar to that of Ancient Nemract

seems to suggest that it been in Wynn province even before the Corruption War take place

due to the cow statue and the priest

it was speculate the the catheral was build before Corruption War not only because its build style but laos the fact it has catacomb underneath

which only make sense if the building was constructed pre Corruption War due to the property of Corruption to reanimate the dead

which make the act of burial highly discourage in culture of modern day Wynn Province

So it would only make sense if the catheral was build before the Corruption War

Which that in mind

consider how Bovenmist is more wide spread in Wynn as we see more trace of in Wynn province such as Nesaak and Ternaves

it push further on the idea of bovemist is in originate in Wynn Province

furthermore

consider how it been said before that Wynn Province was once filled with civilization dedicated toward agriculture

Bovenmist do sound like a religion revolve the agriculture in the fact that it's worshipping base around bovine figure

since we do not know if tWynn province do in fact worship bovine or simply worship figure base on bovine

we can't really say if they revel bovine

but consider Kotoa Ranch do in fact hat cows as one of the animal in it

however this could simply mean they have cows to produce milk instead of slaughter them for meat

so the possiblity of wynn province revel cows still possible

however due to Wynn Province in state of constant warfare for centuries

and with war often come with famine

it very highly likely that people of Wynn would be unable to be picky with food espically during the early day

and pratice of reveling cow likely would be phase out and have them become one of the livestock just to feed the war effort is likely

[split night]

cow

[hybrid gazelle]

okay to continue more

[split night]

would eating a corrupted thing corrupts you?
assuming corruption work like a fungus

like

a corrupted chicken

[hybrid gazelle]

since the pratice of bovismist still being worship

it maybe imply that the belief itself may not root to reveling cow as a whole

either that or the belief simply change with time

but in the end it very liekly that the belief itself may not be about worshipping cow as a whole

or at least not to extend them being revel to highest standard

and to bring up the meta context yet again

due to the fact that it's likely worship base on salted himself

it more likely that in universe

it may be the belief that worship the bovine figure

thoguh despite what being said that the belief may be about agriculture

we doi know that seaskipper been converted to bovenmist

which quite odd as he himself would not benefit from religion base around agriculture

so maybe that bovemist may be something else entirely

or the belief of bovemist can be extend outside of agricultural purpose

if we take the idea of bovemist is a worship center around bovine figure this is more likely that the bovine figure can benefit its followers even if they are not those in agricultural lifestyle

[full jackal]

Okay anyways here’s my uneducated thoughts on what parts of Wynn I think need reworks because they’re outdated and boring. I have literally never done game design in my entire life so don’t quote me on this.

BUILDS/AREAS

1.Rodoroc + DwaADog Quest Areas
Rodoroc is extremely ugly. It only uses one type of stone (stone bricks) without any noticeable variation whatsoever and like a few emeralds and gold as decoration here and there. It is completely mogged by Maex and its own entrance. Honestly I’d imagine that as the capital of the dwarves it’d be nicer or something, maybe made by basalt bricks or other volcanic rocks. Like, where do they even get the stone from, CoTL? Do they import it from Thanos or something? And like the models for their artillery and siege weaponry is just so ugly too.

2. The Corrupted Village
   It just kinda exists, and looks super outdated compared to everywhere else. It’s completely mogged by Elkurn and has 0 lore relevance whatsoever, only being used for a boring side quest. Personally I think it’d be cool if it was used for AJB considering its close distance from the Abandoned mines.

3. Ice Islands
   It’s used for 1 boring talking to NPCs quest and is ugly as hell. There isn’t even a lore reason why there’s a random frozen island in the middle of the ocean. Why does Santa even exist in Wynn anyways, that is so weird…

4. Skiens Island
   I actually really like this area, and its older aesthetic is cool, but I think it’d be uses way too much stone and should be given more lore relevance, especially considering the potential with a character like Skiens. I think it could do with a redesign and have more quests take place there.

5. Dead Island
   It’s… literally just called dead island, is generic sad area, and honestly has 0 lore relevance. I honestly kinda suggest that this could be a base for Saph to exert their influence on the Ocean, as well as Siwel’s torture chamber, but oh well.

…cont. from last message because I ran out of word count
6. Maro Peaks
It’s Maro Peaks. (FUCK MARO PEAKS)

7. All WynnExcavation Sites (including volcanic peaks)
   WynnExcavation site is honestly weird. All of the builds are outdated as hell, Wynnexcavation sites don’t really feel all that interesting design-wise, and Amadel’s arena is just… there I guess. I’ll continue writing about this in the quest section.

8. Llevigar Plains
   For such a high-fantasy inspired and whimsical place like Gavel, I expected the Llevigar plains to be more… interesting. I mean, I love Llevigar and its technological quartzpunk stuff, and Karoc quarry is a great sub-area, but aside from that, Llevigar Plains doesn’t have much to offer aside from the Orcs, Fairies (who btw don’t have any lore relevance whatsoever) and the Meteors which exist for 1 quest if you don’t count “???”

9. The Prison east of Ternavres
   I think this is the area for Hallowynn 2014 but I’m not sure it looks like a prison so… I just think this area could potentially be repurposed as a sorta prison for Rymek bandits and it could potentially be reworked as part of a desert questline that we do with Aledar and Mel.

10. Ragni Peninsula
    This place doesn’t really have a reason to exist honestly, I’ve sorta head-cannoned the castle on top of it to be some fort designed to train recruits (Sorta like Fort Tericen) that is neighbouring the manor owner’s (who is also a Duke of the mountain range).

11. Pigman Ravines
    It’s boring, used for 2 boring quests, pigmen are weird BUT I’ll get to that in the section about species.

12. Little Wood
    It just… doesn’t really have a reason to exist other than being a tribute to InTheLittleWood (og Minecraft YouTuber who’s NOT dead btw). I think it’d be cool if it was used as a sorta haven for people escaping the corruption, a bit like the highlands of Fruma.

13. Temple of Time
    Temple of Time is a really cool area and I feel like it should have more plot-relevance and implications than it does. First of all, why does is it only used once? With the ease that we managed to get into Nesaak’s past I feel like it should be used more by Wynn. I actually have a suggestion about this and how it could be used for gameplay… but I’ll leave that for the gameplay section.

14. Temple of Legends
    Considering it’s quite literally a “Temple of Legends” you’d think it’d be mentioned more by legendary figures and be more active in helping Wynn, but no, apparently not. It’s used for an excruciatingly long and boring fetch quest and a boss that seems like it should be more important than it is.

I typed more but it got deleted cuz discord couldn’t handle it T_T

Not related to builds though

[mossy badge]

Dw everything will get reworked, u might not live by the time it happens but it'll happen

[split night]

at least my grandchildren will get to play

[mystic fulcrum]

dern will came out 7 years later

and it took 21 years to rework every single province after that

so that's 28 years to wait

[solid ibex]

its easier to spot old content by how it looks tho

[hybrid gazelle]

We will have a long time to for dern

it would be a bumper if we get ending of the story withotu the following up

[vestal rivet]

dang you guys having grandchildren?

[hybrid gazelle]

Fruma already got its share of short end due to Tasim story not being fresh out enough

good thing Fruma stroy is not entirely hinge oin Tasim too much

[mystic fulcrum]

Still need lore about Tasim, Aledar and player's past

[hybrid gazelle]

Tasim and Aledar will have more story about them in mid game update

[solid ibex]

Player's past isnt needed

nor do we need it at all

[hybrid gazelle]

Player's past is not that needed in grand of scheme

yes there is something we would like to know

[mossy badge]

Who is we

[hybrid gazelle]

but what we WOULD LIKE to know is difference from the main story

unless what the player is needed for the story to make sense

I dont count on player's past being that explored

cause that like asking

asking why the protagonist is important in fantasy story like

IDK man it just turn out like that

[solid ibex]

i think the better term to use is
what exactly the player is

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah that better

[solid ibex]

the mystery behind their strength and their role in the grand scheme of things

[hybrid gazelle]

that can defintiel stay as mystery, the story as a whole is not really needed that to be explore

even in Fruma that barely matter

it just something for us to wonder about

[limber swan]

lowkey I think Skien's island should be a dungeon or boss altar

it needs to be explored more story wise

[solid ibex]

Skien's island is really interesting

but legit i have 0 reason to go there other than mooington

which is still old ass content

[limber swan]

also why the fuck would mooington be in Skiens island of all places

[hybrid gazelle]

I think they have intention to keep Skien as side content

which is like fine

I dont think he should represent the ocean

[limber swan]

why would Bob put his sheep on the Maro Peaks

[hybrid gazelle]

I think redbeard shbould be the one who is the face of the ocean

rather than Skien

[solid ibex]

red beard needs more build up too

greatest pirate my ass i havent seen his influence that much

[hybrid gazelle]

you know it strange how they make redbeard that one guy who too angry to die

when he

there literally 0 reason for him to be angry about like

fucking Slykaar have more reason to be angry

[mystic fulcrum]

Need quest about sea skipper's past too

[solid ibex]

quest?

[mystic fulcrum]

yes

[hybrid gazelle]

do we really need quest aobut sea skipper?

do we really?

[solid ibex]

naaaah i doubt it, would be cool to know more about seaskipper

[mossy badge]

Yes

Fuck ye

[solid ibex]

smth other than a quest sure

[hybrid gazelle]

I though the whole charm of seaskipper is that he just random guy that friendly to us as we travel with him

I think trying to emphasis on his importance kinda ruin it

consider agai

he meant to be a nomral guy

[mystic fulcrum]

If he's the brother of ragin king, so he only got a small boat and his brother got a kingdom to rule

[hybrid gazelle]

you cant really make quest about that

[solid ibex]

he solos much of the verse though

[hybrid gazelle]

still does not have enough power to actually get protrait

[limber swan]

nah we dont need a Seaskipper quest

[hybrid gazelle]

also would not that bring up more question

if he in fact brother of Ragni King

[mossy badge]

Racist ct doesn't make villager portraits smh

[hybrid gazelle]

Consider Ragni King is adopted son of ragni royal family

[solid ibex]

ragni king the goat

[hybrid gazelle]

then it would imply the Ragni King got seperated along the way

[mossy badge]

We need a ragnar quest?

[hybrid gazelle]

which is not what the story of seaskipper life imply

[limber swan]

YES

[solid ibex]

i wish he has dialogue, kinda like epilogue after apotheosis with him where we actually did confirm to him we survived and did a bunch of bs in fruma

[hybrid gazelle]

also fee llike trying to make story around seaskipper feel forced anyway

[limber swan]

ADD RAGNAR QUEST

PLEASEEEEEE

[hybrid gazelle]

I think they might work on that for epliogue

tbh

[solid ibex]

wait nah we are not telling ragni king of our crimes

all he know is that we slimed wynnex

[hybrid gazelle]

I think Ragni King might get heart attack on what we do in Fruma

because we seentailly tell him that Wynn source of recruits been disrupted

[slim belfry]

"we killed the queen"

[hybrid gazelle]

that like

that fucked up dude

like how else would Wynn province be adjusted to this

one of their way to replenish their numbers is fucking gone

[mystic fulcrum]

the first update we need is new dialog for ragni king after we kill the queen

[hybrid gazelle]

unless the new leadership of Fruma manage to find a solution for thi

this is unsustainable

and since people of Fruma probably indoctrinated to worship the queen

it likely that their millitary would need to be reform entirely